Assessing The Youth

[TD 21]

First off, had they done what many of the smart posters said 2 years ago, started White and Walker in the back court all season and had the former average around 30 mpg, given the way things broke around the league, they probably would have made the playoffs.

White: Is playing with an aggressiveness and confidence I never thought I'd see. The percentages will inevitably regress some and I still think he'll probably ultimately reside in that nebulous zone between star and elite role player, but he's shown he can be a primary offensive option. I'd offer him 4/$70M. If it takes more, fair enough.

Poeltl: Has been inconsistent. Predictably got bullied by brutes Valanciunas, Embiid, Jokic and would thrive amid better spacing, but more or less looks like the low end starting center it was obvious he's been for a few years. Hopefully they can retain him for 3-4/$24-32M. If it takes slightly more, fine. No more giving away assets.

Murray: Looks completely lost and inept and the extension is quickly looking like a mistake. This team needs a go-to scorer and primary playmaker in his stead going forward. Should be shopped hard, along with the 11th pick and an asset from a DeRozan or Aldridge trade, to move up. Avdija, Hayes, Haliburton, should be targets.

Walker: Has been erratic, but shown improved IQ. Due to passive mentality and relatively rudimentary ball skills, punchers chance at a star ship has probably sailed, with solid starter ceiling seeming more appropriate. Still, a 3 and D type with secondary creation is valuable.

Johnson: Blurs the line between on ball type and 3 and D. Probably projects similar to Walker, but too soon to say definitively which direction he veers. Has that "dog" mentality this team desperately needs and will likely max out on his abilities because of it.

Eubanks: Undersized and limited ability, but solid athlete that plays hard and within' himself. Has done enough to earn the third center job. Offer him a guaranteed 2 year minimum, with a 3rd year partial guarantee or team option.

Weatherspoon: Basically the same thing as Eubanks. Can't find whether his 2-way expires or not. If so, his fate should be dependent on what happens to DeRozan, Murray, Forbes and the draft. If they need a depth guard, sign him. If not, sign him to the Austin Spurs.

Metu: End of the line. Never really got a chance like Eubanks, but at the same time the latter has secured the job and carrying four centers on the 15 man would be a waste of a spot.

Samanic: Needs to improve his shot, strength and give a shit level to become an NBA player, but has an intriguing combination of size, athleticism, ball skills.

[Capt Bringdown]

The dream of Murray and Walker as foundational to Spursball going forward has been shattered by the bubble.

[Truth4sale$]

Samanic has shown Nothing! Really dissapointed in both him and Metu, Samanic gets a pass but he should have bulked up some more during the shutdown. He had 3 months!! Metu cant get playing time on a team without height, he is done-sadly to say. Some guys just cant learn the basketball IQ part or it takes a while like Christian Wood in Detroit. Metu will likely bounce around and improve much better when he lands on his 3rd team.
The Spurs have some interesting talent in the Gleague like Dedric Lawson to take Metu's place. Hopefully Lawson resigns with the team.

[R. DeMurre]

I'm pretty happy with the young guys. I think White can be the ultimate glue guy, adapt to any style of play, and be the 2nd or 3rd best player on a championship level team, playing PG, SG, or even SF. White, Walker, Johnson, and Murray are all shooting good-to-great 3pt%s, but only White is showing no hesitancy when it comes to shooting them. Trey Lyles is actually younger than White, and he's a good reasonably priced piece too. I was impressed today when Walker had a poor shooting game but still contributed with 6 rebounds, 6 assists, and defense. With these four plus Mills, I'd say the back court is set. Poeltl is a slightly better than average starting center, or an extremely good back up center. The key now is how to use the remaining pieces to get an impactful big, be that a forward or a center. I'm feeling good about the future.

[Ditty]

White - Stud when healthy. Wish he was 24 instead of 26. Not a huge deal.

Walker - Most upside out of all the young guys. Has the ability to be a playmaker with the ball in his hands. Once he figures out how to use his athleticism/get creative around the rim watch out.

Poeltl - I like him & hope we keep him. Wish he was a little more aggressive around the rim and was a little more offensively talented for being a top ten pick. Think he will continue to get better defensively.

Murray - Proud that he learned how to shoot but doesn't seem as athletic or as quick since the injury imo. Going to give him another season to really judge him. Hopefully he continues to gain some muscle and possibly embraces being the 6th man of the team.

Johnson - Wish he was 6'8. Not a big deal either. Kid is a basketball player. Seems like he loves the game. Coachable and likeable. Don't think he will be a star but I can see him putting up 15ppg as a career average for a long career in the NBA alternating with starting and playing off the bench.

Ewwbanks :p - Has been impressive in the bubble. One of those guys who was too good for the G League but not talented enough for the NBA. Hopefully he keeps getting better and has a decent NBA career even if it isn't with us.

Metu - Was hoping he would be what Eubanks is right now but the coaching staff isn't seeing it. I think he has a little something to him but not enough to be in a rotation unless we are tanking. Think his days as a Spur will be ending soon. He will get a shot with another team maybe in the summer league. Hopefully land somewhere in the G league or play somewhere overseas.

Weatherspoon - Impressive in summer league last year. If Spurs move on from Forbes (hopefully), Marco (hopefully) and Derozan (depends) this summer. Would like to see what he brings off the bench for a season or two backing up Lonnie.

Luka - Don't know what to think of him yet. I saw him up close in Vegas last year and you can definitely see why the Spurs drafted him as he is pretty intriguing. Haven't seen much of him this year outside of highlights in Austin which were mostly dunks. I think the kid will be fine. He moves great for a guy that size you can't coach that. He is going to get thrown into the fire next season at least off the bench and we will see how he responds.

[slick'81]

I def think we keep poodle cheap . I agree with my boy cal and figure Dwhite gets something in the 60-70 range. Kj/lonnie and murray have upside and luka&spoon should continue to grow. Throw in a top 10 pick this year and the spurs got something cooking

[Dhbsr555]

Rudy gay trade value couldn’t be higher we need to package Aldridge and him and maybe dump Mills salary for young players and picks.

[Chinook]

You don't overpay for Poeltl to keep from losing an asset. That's sunk cost. He's good enough to be on the team, and I'd be okay re-signing him. But his RFA status and overall meh-ness makes him one of the lowest priorities in the off-season for me.

I think if White can develop more of a killer instinct, Walker can do. I think he' plays better when he's not the fourth option. He certainly has things to work on, but he should absolutely be the plan going forward pending the draft. Still, I do wonder if Walker's ceiling will be lowered by his demeanor.

I'm not extending White. Learn from the mistake. The last thing you want is to lock Derrick into a deal during an artificially inflated cap and hope that he's going to stay healthy and aggressive. The whole point of having RFA status after that fourth year is so you don't have to extend guys to keep control over them. Even if White earns $100 Million, it's better to give that to him while maximizing flexibility and have seen him prove he can sustain his level of play for a season.

It's no secret I agree about Murray, though I guess you can argue that he deserves and off-season to adjust his game. I just don't really trust that he'll do that. I don't think he's the future impact star the Spurs need, and there should still be teams that value him. It's a shame that he's not the one balling out rather than Gay. Oh well. I'm not down on the idea of packaging him with a pick to move up. Obviously, if there is a guy the Spurs really want, then it's not too big a price to pay to secure him. But I think the team needs a second first-rounder this year, and they'll only be able to get it from Murray, Aldridge or DeRozan. I think Murray by himself could get a late-lottery pick. If that's an option, I don't want to add that to 11 just to get up to five. Grab Toppin, use the next pick on a developmental front-court player and keep it going. Maybe Avdija is a future MVP candidate. If so, sure get him. But with the consensus seeming to be that the lottery is uniform outside Wiseman and the high number of front-court players available, having two bites of that apple is really hard to pass up.

[spurspl]

It's no secret I agree about Murray, though I guess you can argue that he deserves and off-season to adjust his game. I just don't really trust that he'll do that. I don't think he's the future impact star the Spurs need, and there should still be teams that value him. It's a shame that he's not the one balling out rather than Gay. Oh well. I'm not down on the idea of packaging him with a pick to move up. Obviously, if there is a guy the Spurs really want, then it's not too big a price to pay to secure him. But I think the team needs a second first-rounder this year, and they'll only be able to get it from Murray, Aldridge or DeRozan. I think Murray by himself could get a late-lottery pick. If that's an option, I don't want to add that to 11 just to get up to five. Grab Toppin, use the next pick on a developmental front-court player and keep it going. Maybe Avdija is a future MVP candidate. If so, sure get him. But with the consensus seeming to be that the lottery is uniform outside Wiseman and the high number of front-court players available, having two bites of that apple is really hard to pass up.

im a huge fan of gettin a second 1st rnd pick but im not convinced that murray could get us a late lottery pick. Maybe we could get the blazers pick for a package around LMA without our pick.

[Dhbsr555]

It’s amazing to me people are so quick to get rid of Murray

[CGD]

It’s time to start consolidating some pieces.

[spurspl]

It’s amazing to me people are so quick to get rid of Murray

its amazing how ppl before pandemic put the 24 yrs old guy who cant dribble, pass and shoot into a future all star consideration.

[Collins21]

its amazing how ppl before pandemic put the 24 yrs old guy who cant dribble, pass and shoot into a future all star consideration.

I don't think Murray is god but you think Josh Jackson and Lonzo are good so your player evaluation is shit.

[exstatic]

The dream of Murray and Walker as foundational to Spursball going forward has been shattered by the bubble.

They would both be a LOT better if they could finish thru contact.

Walker misses a lot of shots because he actively avoids contact. His speed going to the rim works against him, because his shot almost always comes off the glass too hard, hits the rim, and bounces straight away in whatever direction the side of the rim that the shot hit. Absorbing contact is the finishing version of using the backboard to deaden your shot for a kind bounce. The impact slows your speed from what you used to blow past your defender to a manageable speed to execute a layup with the ball caromming wildly off the rim.

[TD 21]

You don't overpay for Poeltl to keep from losing an asset. That's sunk cost. He's good enough to be on the team, and I'd be okay re-signing him. But his RFA status and overall meh-ness makes him one of the lowest priorities in the off-season for me.

I think if White can develop more of a killer instinct, Walker can do. I think he' plays better when he's not the fourth option. He certainly has things to work on, but he should absolutely be the plan going forward pending the draft. Still, I do wonder if Walker's ceiling will be lowered by his demeanor.

I'm not extending White. Learn from the mistake. The last thing you want is to lock Derrick into a deal during an artificially inflated cap and hope that he's going to stay healthy and aggressive. The whole point of having RFA status after that fourth year is so you don't have to extend guys to keep control over them. Even if White earns $100 Million, it's better to give that to him while maximizing flexibility and have seen him prove he can sustain his level of play for a season.

It's no secret I agree about Murray, though I guess you can argue that he deserves and off-season to adjust his game. I just don't really trust that he'll do that. I don't think he's the future impact star the Spurs need, and there should still be teams that value him. It's a shame that he's not the one balling out rather than Gay. Oh well. I'm not down on the idea of packaging him with a pick to move up. Obviously, if there is a guy the Spurs really want, then it's not too big a price to pay to secure him. But I think the team needs a second first-rounder this year, and they'll only be able to get it from Murray, Aldridge or DeRozan. I think Murray by himself could get a late-lottery pick. If that's an option, I don't want to add that to 11 just to get up to five. Grab Toppin, use the next pick on a developmental front-court player and keep it going. Maybe Avdija is a future MVP candidate. If so, sure get him. But with the consensus seeming to be that the lottery is uniform outside Wiseman and the high number of front-court players available, having two bites of that apple is really hard to pass up.

I meant slightly and of course you do. Like, if they ideally want to pay him in the $7 million range and he get's an offer sheet in the $9 million range, you don't lose him over that. He's a quality player/asset, at a position of need. If someone goes nuts and offers $12 million, that's a different discussion.

Maybe Walker can too, but he also lacks a degree of toughness that White possesses. With White, it seemed more so to be not wanting to step on proven veterans toes. With Walker, it seems more of a confidence issue.

White isn't Murray and though I don't think he can maintain his current pace, I'm confident he's turned a corner. If not, at worst he's a high end role player, with the malleability to double a quality trade asset. Plus, everything isn't about opportunity cost. This is a relationship business too and not extending guys who are worthy of it can have an adverse affect on the relationship (sometimes, it's strike one to it's ultimate demise). Also, this is an organization that value certain ethos that he clearly possesses and they desperately need a PR win.

Murray and 11 isn't getting them to 5. They'd have to pick up a third asset for Aldridge or DeRozan and add it to the package.

[Chinook]

I meant slightly and of course you do. Like, if they ideally want to pay him in the $7 million range and he get's an offer sheet in the $9 million range, you don't lose him over that. He's a quality player/asset, at a position of need. If someone goes nuts and offers $12 million, that's a different discussion.

I'm okay with the idea that you should pay to keep a good player. I'm not okay with the idea that him being an "asset" matters. Good teams create assets -- they don't fight to maintain them. You draft and develop players before moving those players to get a better starting chip. If Poeltl is the plan at center, keep him if the money's right. But if the goal is to trade him later, let him walk. He'll be nothing more than filler on an inflated contract during a deflated cap.


Maybe Walker can too, but he also lacks a degree of toughness that White possesses. With White, it seemed more so to be not wanting to step on proven veterans toes. With Walker, it seems more of a confidence issue.

Yeah, it reminds me of Anderson that way. Lonnie seems like a good guy but not a lead dog. I think he'd be a good second option if the team can find a first option, though. I still have his ceiling as better than a role-player.


White isn't Murray and though I don't think he can maintain his current pace, I'm confident he's turned a corner. If not, at worst he's a high end role player, with the malleability to double a quality trade asset. Plus, everything isn't about opportunity cost. This is a relationship business too and not extending guys who are worthy of it can have an adverse affect on the relationship (sometimes, it's strike one to it's ultimate demise). Also, this is an organization that value certain ethos that he clearly possesses and they desperately need a PR win.

Murray's extension was the PR move. Right now, the team needs to think about actually getting better, and that should come from using cap space in 2021. If they extend White, it's likely to come with them extending DeRozan or trading him for long-term money. I agree that if White is getting loud about a deal that it could be a dicey situation, but I'm also not opposed to trading White if the value's right. Spurs can't let non-stars hold them hostage.


Murray and 11 isn't getting them to 5. They'd have to pick up a third asset for Aldridge or DeRozan and add it to the package

I think it gets five easily. This is a depressed draft, and I'm pretty confident that Murray has good value. The thing with this draft is that the lottery is considered to be pretty flat. I could see some trades where teams jump up five or six picks barely having to give up anything. Murray's certainly enough to get a protected future first, and that's all it took to get the Mavericks from five to three in a good draft. It really wouldn't surprise me to see a team like Phoenix offer 10 for Murray, especially given their recent play.

[TD 21]

I'm okay with the idea that you should pay to keep a good player. I'm not okay with the idea that him being an "asset" matters. Good teams create assets -- they don't fight to maintain them. You draft and develop players before moving those players to get a better starting chip. If Poeltl is the plan at center, keep him if the money's right. But if the goal is to trade him later, let him walk. He'll be nothing more than filler on an inflated contract during a deflated cap.



Yeah, it reminds me of Anderson that way. Lonnie seems like a good guy but not a lead dog. I think he'd be a good second option if the team can find a first option, though. I still have his ceiling as better than a role-player.



Murray's extension was the PR move. Right now, the team needs to think about actually getting better, and that should come from using cap space in 2021. If they extend White, it's likely to come with them extending DeRozan or trading him for long-term money. I agree that if White is getting loud about a deal that it could be a dicey situation, but I'm also not opposed to trading White if the value's right. Spurs can't let non-stars hold them hostage.



I think it gets five easily. This is a depressed draft, and I'm pretty confident that Murray has good value. The thing with this draft is that the lottery is considered to be pretty flat. I could see some trades where teams jump up five or six picks barely having to give up anything. Murray's certainly enough to get a protected future first, and that's all it took to get the Mavericks from five to three in a good draft. It really wouldn't surprise me to see a team like Phoenix offer 10 for Murray, especially given their recent play.

Most teams, barring a completely insane offer that could cripple them in some way, refuse to let teams poach them. Now, if you're saying they should get out ahead of that in certain cases, I agree. That's why I'm generally a fan of extending or trading before the ELC expires. In his case, too late. Keep him for now and if they ultimately land a better center in the draft or via trade at some point, consider cashing him in then.

There's numerous role players who play a star type role or put up star type counting stats. I could see that being more plausible than his being a genuine star.

Murray's was in the sense that they were doing right by a player, White would be in the sense of they're locking in a core player. Cap space on what? They won't strip it down entirely, so forget about renting it out as a dumping ground for dead money to acquire pick(s). Though an ideal fit with DeRozan, White's fate shouldn't be tied to his. His trade value is likely high, but probably not high enough to get an almost certainly better younger piece.

I don't think he does. Saturated position, torn ACL, 4 years since drafted, nearing 24, still can't dribble, shoot, pass or think and doesn't seem ready to humble himself and focus on becoming a 3 and D type.

[gambit1990]

Rudy gay trade value couldn’t be higher
agree.

we need to package Aldridge and him
i'm not against moving la but not retaining demar has to come first.

[Dhbsr555]

I know much of st can’t stand DeMar but without him we don’t win any of these games same can be said about white . I’m totally fine with dumping Mills salary and packaging la and gay while extending dd and white

[Down Under]

There is no way in the world they would've made the playoffs starting White & Walker. Lonnie, despite being most likely to become a star, is still fairly clueless on team defense - he gets backdoored regularly as well as missing basic rotations. Additionally, his shot selection for most of the year has been woeful - passes up too many wide open 3s & instead drives into the teeth of the defense where he often becomes out of control. He will get there, but it will take a number of season IMO.

[Dingle Barry]

I think it's a mistake if they give up on Metu. He improved a shit load this year.

[Kurgan]

agree.

i'm not against moving la but not retaining demar has to come first.

Yup. These bubble games have shown that healthy White is much more impactful and cheaper than Demar. Worst thing the Spurs can do is extend him.

[Chinook]

I think it's a mistake if they give up on Metu. He improved a shit load this year.

For what it's worth, I think the Spurs will keep him around. I don't know what the off-season is going to look like, I could totally see some type of summer league for the fall or winter. I don't think Pop likes Metu, but the Spurs gave him way more guaranteed money than they needed to, and they were ultra secretive about his scouting process. That suggests they believed in him. He's just the worst player on the team and an abject misery to watch on the court. Maybe that changes. But if the Spurs don't draft a big this year, I think they give it one more season.

[Dejounte]

Maybe theyll turn Metu into an assistant coach once his "NBA career" ends. He did take up a mentorship role to Keldon according to reports this year. Metu's problem is he doesn't love basketball based off from what I've seen him constantly post on his social media. It's all about soccer. Never about basketball. Probably didnt have a great work ethic because of this. That doesnt fly under Pop.

[Chinook]

Maybe theyll turn Metu into an assistant coach once his "NBA career" ends. He did take up a mentorship role to Keldon according to reports this year. Metu's problem is he doesn't love basketball based off from what I've seen him constantly post on his social media. It's all about soccer. Never about basketball. Probably didnt have a great work ethic because of this. That doesnt fly under Pop.

Saw a video that says his dream is to be a lawyer.

[Kurgan]

Maybe theyll turn Metu into an assistant coach once his "NBA career" ends. He did take up a mentorship role to Keldon according to reports this year. Metu's problem is he doesn't love basketball based off from what I've seen him constantly post on his social media. It's all about soccer. Never about basketball. Probably didnt have a great work ethic because of this. That doesnt fly under Pop.

He might have grown up loving soccer but grew too tall for the sport and basketball was kind of a fall back option. At his height, he'd have to play goalie or something if he wanted a career in soccer.

[objective]

I'm sure Metu will be gone. Don't think he can play, but whether he can or not doesn't matter when you're in that deep a Pop doghouse.

Before today he was even behind Zeller. Zero trust from Pop.

I'm reminded of how Pop had it in for Mahinmi and would go out of his way to not play him, even risking injury to Duncan with an absurd game situation at Toronto.

Despite Pop wanting nothing to do with him, Mahinmi would go on to play 10 more years and make about $80 million more dollars, so Metu shouldn't let it get him down.

[Mal]

It all should start with DeRozan. If he picks up the option, if he declines, if he's resigned, how much.

[EasyMoney]

If demar opts in, does pop continue playing him at PF?

[Dingle Barry]

Saw a video that says his dream is to be a lawyer.

As a lawyer, this blows my mind.

[J_Paco]

First off, had they done what many of the smart posters said 2 years ago, started White and Walker in the back court all season and had the former average around 30 mpg, given the way things broke around the league, they probably would have made the playoffs.

White: Is playing with an aggressiveness and confidence I never thought I'd see. The percentages will inevitably regress some and I still think he'll probably ultimately reside in that nebulous zone between star and elite role player, but he's shown he can be a primary offensive option. I'd offer him 4/$70M. If it takes more, fair enough.

Poeltl: Has been inconsistent. Predictably got bullied by brutes Valanciunas, Embiid, Jokic and would thrive amid better spacing, but more or less looks like the low end starting center it was obvious he's been for a few years. Hopefully they can retain him for 3-4/$24-32M. If it takes slightly more, fine. No more giving away assets.

Murray: Looks completely lost and inept and the extension is quickly looking like a mistake. This team needs a go-to scorer and primary playmaker in his stead going forward. Should be shopped hard, along with the 11th pick and an asset from a DeRozan or Aldridge trade, to move up. Avdija, Hayes, Haliburton, should be targets.

Walker: Has been erratic, but shown improved IQ. Due to passive mentality and relatively rudimentary ball skills, punchers chance at a star ship has probably sailed, with solid starter ceiling seeming more appropriate. Still, a 3 and D type with secondary creation is valuable.

Johnson: Blurs the line between on ball type and 3 and D. Probably projects similar to Walker, but too soon to say definitively which direction he veers. Has that "dog" mentality this team desperately needs and will likely max out on his abilities because of it.

Eubanks: Undersized and limited ability, but solid athlete that plays hard and within' himself. Has done enough to earn the third center job. Offer him a guaranteed 2 year minimum, with a 3rd year partial guarantee or team option.

Weatherspoon: Basically the same thing as Eubanks. Can't find whether his 2-way expires or not. If so, his fate should be dependent on what happens to DeRozan, Murray, Forbes and the draft. If they need a depth guard, sign him. If not, sign him to the Austin Spurs.

Metu: End of the line. Never really got a chance like Eubanks, but at the same time the latter has secured the job and carrying four centers on the 15 man would be a waste of a spot.

Samanic: Needs to improve his shot, strength and give a shit level to become an NBA player, but has an intriguing combination of size, athleticism, ball skills.

So, all that to say exactly what we thought of all these guys last September.

Anyway, DeJounte has his flaws but he isn't as "bad" as you & other haters suggest. He's already better than plenty of PG's from the last few classes, yet his best spot IS likely a off-ball, "3 - and - D" type instead of the primary ballhandler/playmaker.

Everything else is - like I said in my first sentence - agreeable and how most of us already felt about the young guys. Minus Johnson, who was an unknown commodity but seemed to fit the mold of a P.J. Tucker - type (which is likely his floor).

The young guards (minus Forbes), Samanic, Eubanks, Lyles & possibly Poeltl should be retained, but finding an elite prospect (at the 3/4 or 5) is key to "unlocking" this group's potential. That is the only way the Spurs will become contenders quickly or get out of the basement of the Western conference.

Dropping any combination of the veteran group of Mills (most unlikely), DeRozan, Aldridge, Gay (maybe not *IF* he can retain this scoring pace next season) and Belinelli is okay with me.....

[ZeusWillJudge]

So, all that to say exactly what we thought of all these guys last September.

Anyway, DeJounte has his flaws but he isn't a "bad" as you & other haters suggest. He's already better than plenty of PG's from the last few classes, yet his best spot IS likely a off-ball, "3 - and - D" type instead of the primary ballhandler/playmaker.

Everything this else is - like I said in my first sentence - agreeable and how most of us already felt about the young guys. Minus Johnson, who was an unknown commodity but seemed to fit the mold of a P.J. Tucker - type (who is likely his floor).

The young guards (minus Forbes), Samanic, Eubanks & possibly Poeltl should be retained, but finding an elite prospect (at the 3/4 or 5) is key to "unlocking" this group's potential. That is the only way the Spurs will become contenders quickly or get out of the basement of the Western conference.

Clarke and Thybulle were both on the board on draft night, when the Spurs chose Sammich. They could have had either one of those guys plus Keldon. I was against Sammich, and I still am. If they had taken Keldon plus either one of those guys, and played them, they would probably have as good of a record and they would be much better next season.

Spoon has been a good 3P shooter at times. If he ever gets that confidence back, he would be more than a replacement for Forbes.

Metu and Eubanks are utterly replaceable. Not worthy of a discussion.

Pop and his rotations have limited White.

Poeltl is right at that age when C's blossom (or don't). He needs a little more bulk, but his blocks alone make him worth keeping if the price isn't stupid high.

[J_Paco]

Clarke and Thybulle were both on the board on draft night, when the Spurs chose Sammich. They could have had either one of those guys plus Keldon. I was against Sammich, and I still am. If they had taken Keldon plus either one of those guys, and played them, they would probably have as good of a record and they would be much better next season.

Spoon has been a good 3P shooter at times. If he ever gets that confidence back, he would be more than a replacement for Forbes.

Metu and Eubanks are utterly replaceable. Not worthy of a discussion.

Pop and his rotations have limited White.

Poeltl is right at that age when C's blossom (or don't). He needs a little more bulk, but his blocks alone make him worth keeping if the price isn't stupid high.

Who knows how their scouts & talent evaluators ranked Samanic, Clarke and Thybulle? What was said in the war room or who made the final call (Wright, Pop or R.C.) to pick him? I think they saw Mattise & Brandon as both high - end role players at their height, while a guy like Luka (on paper) has the physical tools to be a high - end starter and maybe all-star.

I really don't see that much more improvement from Clarke & he still has a terribly awkward shot, although it does go in at a solid clip.

I think they Spurs will need to give Luka 3, if not 4, years before they can completely write him off.

We'll see how it goes, but I understand why they felt they couldn't "pass up" on Luka's potential, age & physical profile. Especially if they thought someone would gamble on him after they passed him up with the 17th pick (if they went with someone else).

[DAF86]

The way I see it, we have:

-Three serious, solid pieces for the future: White, Poeltl, Keldon.
-Two works in progress that may or may not work: Murray, Walker.
-And one complete question mark: Samanic.

[Chomag]

One thing is I don't understand why some here are still high on Murray. He has almost no naturalB-Ball instincts. Yes he can get better at some things but instincts is not something that can be learned, and it's most definitely one of those things what separates average players from good to the great players.

A PG (a position most critical for needed skill set) with no natural instincts just will never gain you much of anything.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Who knows how their scouts & talent evaluators ranked Samanic, Clarke and Thybulle? What was said in the war room or who made the final call (Wright, Pop or R.C.) to pick him? I think they saw Mattise & Brandon as both high - end role players at their height, while a guy like Luka (on paper) has the physical tools to be a high - end starter and maybe all-star.

I really don't see that much more improvement from Clarke & he still has a terribly awkward shot, although it does go in at a solid clip.

I think they Spurs will need to give Luka 3, if not 4, years before they can completely write him off.

We'll see how it goes, but I understand why they felt they couldn't "pass up" on Luka's potential, age & physical profile. Especially if they thought someone would gamble on him after they passed him up with the 17th pick (if they went with someone else).


We went through all the Samanic discussions long ago. I thought he was a mistake. A lot of other people didn't, including PATFO obviously.

Every player has match-ups that they don't do well with, but Clarke has already proven that he can be an effective NBA player as a rookie. Even if he doesn't progress any other way, he will get better just by getting smarter with experience. I was all over Thybulle a year before he declared, back when people were questioning if he would even get drafted.

You can't look at a draft in a vacuum, except when you have the luxury of Tim Duncan making everyone better. The Spurs needed some immediate help. Pop actually believed he could ride Forbes and Beli. Taking a flyer on Sammich was a fuckup in that draft, when Clarke and Thybulle were on the board. It just was. Those guys are going to be solid NBA players for years barring injury, and the Spurs were/are sadly lacking in that department. The chance of Sammich developing into a legit star is damn slim. Waiting for him to develop into something marginally better than Clarke or Thybulle in a couple of years is nothing but a good way to waste a couple of years.

They did a good thing drafting Keldon. And Spoon, IMO. But Pop left KJ in the Gatorade League, when he should have had him getting rotation minutes. He didn't recognize the world of shit this roster is in.

[ZeusWillJudge]

One thing is I don't understand why some here are still high on Murray. He has almost no naturalB-Ball instincts. Yes he can get better at some things but instincts is not something that can be learned, and it's most definitely one of those things what separates average players from good to the great players.

A PG (a position most critical for needed skill set) with no natural instincts just will never gain you much of anything.


Long ago, in a galaxy far, far away I suggested that the Spurs should have traded Parker while he still had value. You would think I suggested changing the team name to the Pelicans or something.

Tony aged out the next season, and he STILL didn't finish his career as a Spur. The team hasn't had a PG since. And, yeah, it's sort of a big deal for a team to have a legit PG. Unless, of course, the only goal is setting a record for consecutive playoff appearances.

At the beginning, they were trying to use Murray as some sort of combo. That wasn't fair to him, and it was clear within just a few games that they needed to go one way or the other with him. I said then that they needed to just let him focus on being a 2, because he just is not a point guard. Pop went the other way, and it has impeded his development as a player. He can't get on with the things he is suited for, and he isn't suited for the things they are trying to make him do. And leaving a team without a real PG is a good way of insuring that their ceiling is an early exit from the playoffs.

It's bad coaching. Popsuckers can say whatever they want, but it's bad coaching.

[Dejounte]

Love the arm chair coaches on this forum

[ZeusWillJudge]

Love the arm chair coaches on this forum


And we love the Popsuckers. Slurp, slurp.



It's not so much about me bring right. It's about how truly bad Pop has been without Tim Duncan.

[Dejounte]

And we love the Popsuckers. Slurp, slurp.



It's not so much about me bring right. It's about how truly bad Pop has been without Tim Duncan.

Sharing too much of your fantasies there bud. Arent you the guy that freaks out over little things? Oh yeah, the keyboard warrior

[TD 21]

So, all that to say exactly what we thought of all these guys last September.

Anyway, DeJounte has his flaws but he isn't as "bad" as you & other haters suggest. He's already better than plenty of PG's from the last few classes, yet his best spot IS likely a off-ball, "3 - and - D" type instead of the primary ballhandler/playmaker.

Everything else is - like I said in my first sentence - agreeable and how most of us already felt about the young guys. Minus Johnson, who was an unknown commodity but seemed to fit the mold of a P.J. Tucker - type (which is likely his floor).

The young guards (minus Forbes), Samanic, Eubanks, Lyles & possibly Poeltl should be retained, but finding an elite prospect (at the 3/4 or 5) is key to "unlocking" this group's potential. That is the only way the Spurs will become contenders quickly or get out of the basement of the Western conference.

Dropping any combination of the veteran group of Mills (most unlikely), DeRozan, Aldridge, Gay (maybe not *IF* he can retain this scoring pace next season) and Belinelli is okay with me.....

Yeah, 11 months ago we all knew things like . . .

- White would star to consistently play with the aggressiveness and confidence to make him worth $70M or more
- Murray would be a mess and the extension would look like a mistake
- Walker's IQ/passing would significantly improve in short order
- Johnson might develop into more of a featured type than 3 and D one
- Eubanks is probably a deep bench NBA player

Ah, the old if you're not a blind apologist you're a hater routine.

[cd021]

It all should start with DeRozan. If he picks up the option, if he declines, if he's resigned, how much.
I still think he picks up his option. If he wants out then the Spurs and him and his agent can work out a trade from there. I don't see them re-signing him. If he opts-in and doesn't ask for a trade then, they could let him play out his deal without having to commit long-term.


If demar opts in, does pop continue playing him at PF?

In certain situations. I still think Lyles and Gay will play the majority of minutes at the 4 next season, baring injury.


The way I see it, we have:

-Three serious, solid pieces for the future: White, Poeltl, Keldon.
-Two works in progress that may or may not work: Murray, Walker.
-And one complete question mark: Samanic.

Agreed, though I wouldn't put Murray and Walker in the same boat. Walker is a better shooter and doesn't make nearly as much weird decisions with the ball as Murray does. I think Murray is closer to being in the question mark category.


One thing is I don't understand why some here are still high on Murray. He has almost no naturalB-Ball instincts. Yes he can get better at some things but instincts is not something that can be learned, and it's most definitely one of those things what separates average players from good to the great players.

A PG (a position most critical for needed skill set) with no natural instincts just will never gain you much of anything.

His shooting is definitely improved but his play-making decisions are weird. He drive's just to drive and it often doesn't go well. He also throws silly passes and is careless with the ball.

He's a 3 and D SG but being groomed as a PG despite average court-vision, limited passing ability and weak handles.