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View Full Version : Strike Out: Go With Rose



timvp
07-12-2003, 05:11 PM
It isn't interesting to me that nobody thinks that Rose can start in this league. Next to Duncan, he'd be able to produce about 12 points and 8 boards a game no problem. That is about what you are going to get from a player like PJ Brown, Rasho or even Olowokandi. I don't see the major upside to one of those players that isn't in Rose.

He can play well with Duncan, that is well documented. He knows how to win. He's been a Spur and will fit into the program.

Look at his numbers while in the starting lineup:

13 games
16.5 PPG
9.2 RPG
.513 FG%

Those are some very solid numbers. If he did that on a consistent basis, the Spurs would waltz to Championship #3.

I say if you can't get Olowokandi to be a token starter, then forget Rasho and the rest and go with Malik.



Start Malik ©

IcemanCometh
07-12-2003, 05:12 PM
copycat :)

Temple Of The Dog
07-12-2003, 05:14 PM
yeah... i just posted the same thing. sign odom to backup the SF and PF spots. start malik at power forward and duncan at center. get a vet min guy to come in and give you 15 mins of time to back duncan up.

T Park Num 9
07-12-2003, 05:17 PM
The interior defense will go right down the shitter then.

Duncan needs help back there, hence David helped out quite a bit to help him win.

Olowakandi with his shot blocking ability helps Duncan relax a little more on D.

timvp
07-12-2003, 05:20 PM
The drop in interior defense will be made up for in the improved perimeter defense. With Rose starting, the Spurs might be able to field the greatest perimeter defensive team since the '93 Bulls.

T Park Num 9
07-12-2003, 05:23 PM
If Olowakandi expresses an intrest to come
under 8 million a year.

You sign him up. Sign him, then see if Odom will bite.


Odom is injury plagued and a pot head, but who knows, maybe he can turn it around under POP like Jackson did.

Aggie Hoopsfan
07-12-2003, 05:24 PM
timvp,

My concern has never been that Malik couldn't get some points and rebounds.

My concern is that defensively

1) he would give up a lot of O rebounds when his man has 5-6 inches on him

2) he is not a shot blocker


Two very glaring issues in my mind.

AHF

T Park Num 9
07-12-2003, 05:25 PM
I agree aggie,

teams like Phoenix and Dallas will drive to the hole all night long and scory easy buckets.


You need another shot blocker in the post to compliment Ducan to prevent that.

KoriEllis
07-12-2003, 05:25 PM
IF the Spurs can't get a solid big, then I'd hope Malik would start at the 4 and they pick up Odom. Having a versatile guy like Odom on the team would make up for the lack of interior D. But I know that right this second, the Spurs acquisition priority is a big man.

timvp
07-12-2003, 05:27 PM
As a starter, he averaged close to a block a game. That is about as much as you'd get from a PJ Brown/Juwan Howard/Brad Miller type anyways.

He gives up some offensive rebounds, but he's overall a very good rebounder. His height doesn't really play a factor.



Spurs fans like to be hard on Malik because he isn't Robinson or Duncan.

Memo: those two are Hall of Famers.



P.S.

There is a reason the Lakers offered him their full MLE for six years last off-season.

IcemanCometh
07-12-2003, 05:27 PM
if malik is such a bad defender why do we always see him on shaq? why is everyone on our team always praising him?

Temple Of The Dog
07-12-2003, 05:28 PM
ahf... i second all those thoughts. but if you can't find a bigman worth spending money on... go for the weird. its no stranger than the idea some had that kidd and parker could play well together, you know?

i like kandi as an option. i think he'd fit. i think he'd get better under the system, or at least, put out the same numbers (which would be good enough)

but if he's not what the spurs are looking for... i'd rather chance odom, than spend money on a rasho. i'd rather start malik (who is woefully undersized as a starter) than do that.

timvp
07-12-2003, 05:31 PM
Rose averaged 13.6 points per game in the last 36 games of the season. And that was in under 30 minutes a game.


Numbers don't lie.





Start Malik©

MissAllThat
07-12-2003, 05:36 PM
I wouldn't mind starting Malik, but then we'd still need a couple good guys to back him and Tim up since we'd be losing him as a decent back-up.

Temple Of The Dog
07-12-2003, 05:44 PM
IF the Spurs can't get a solid big, then I'd hope Malik would start at the 4 and they pick up Odom. Having a versatile guy like Odom on the team would make up for the lack of interior D. But I know that right this second, the Spurs acquisition priority is a big man.

from your lips to gods ears or whatever... cause thats looking like best case and not worst case scenario now. i'll say it again... if no one has love for the kandiman, then start malik and get odom to backup the 3 and 4. willis could be our backup center at the vet min... we could still go after someone else (after signing odom) maybe resign speedy.

50 Cent
07-12-2003, 05:49 PM
I'd rather do that than blow money on somebody like Rasho.


get a vet min guy to come in and give you 15 mins of time to back duncan up.
Robert Horry.

Temple Of The Dog
07-12-2003, 05:53 PM
robert horry would be cool, but ideally you'd want a big thick guy... a guy like willis that would only come in for duncan at center (since odom would come in for malik and bowen)

ChumpDumper
07-12-2003, 06:12 PM
but ideally you'd want a big thick guy
http://philadelphia.comcastsportsnet.com/news/images/121501-dm.jpg

IcemanCometh
07-12-2003, 06:16 PM
madefromdust would appreciate it if we signed this guy

http://www.nicolebass.com/photos/nicole31.jpg

Aggie Hoopsfan
07-12-2003, 06:26 PM
timvp,

I guess my point defensively is where teams feared to go inside this year against the Towers, there would be no such fear with 6'5" Malik Rose patrolling the middle.

And further, Dikembe exposed in the playoffs how to get into Malik's head, something that will find it's way into opposing scouting reports.

I saw too many times this year where a guy would simply out-jump Rose for balls, and we already have problems giving up too many O rebounds to other teams. This problem would only get worse with Rose starting.

I guess the lesser evil is to go after Kandi, but we really need to have some length inside.

I suppose I could live with Rose inside if we also had Odom at 6'10" around to help out.

AHF

spurster
07-12-2003, 06:26 PM
The Spurs can sign Willis, Horry, and Campbell and wait for Brand next year. If TD plays 40 mins and Rose plays 30, then there are 26 minutes for the others, mainly Horry. Use Willis and Campbell when you need big guys.

NCaliSpurs
07-12-2003, 06:36 PM
13 games
16.5 PPG
9.2 RPG
.513 FG%


I posted that on a per minute basis, Rose was as good as Brad Miller (he only gets 7 minutes less and his overall numbers are nearly as good). Some ignorant people balked at the suggestion.

I would rather do this than even think about Brad Miller, who averages the same bpg as Malik despite getting more minutes.

Rose is short but he plays big. During that stretch of the season where Robinson was hurt, Rose played big and was an instrumental part to our success.

Signing Odom or Kandi or Both would not be a bad plan.

Marcus Bryant
07-12-2003, 07:10 PM
ATTENTION TIMVP.

ACCORDING TO MY COPY OF Basketball for Spurs Fans©2003 DG, Inc. ALL POWER FORWARDS MUST BE 6'10" OR TALLER.

MALIK ROSE IS 6'7" TALL SO HE CANNOT BE CONSIDERED TO BE A "POWER FORWARD."

IMO. :hat


[/sarcasm]

MannyIsGod
07-12-2003, 07:29 PM
DG, INC...lmao

Dunkel Weizen
07-12-2003, 08:57 PM
Whether Malik starts is beside the point. This team is still short 1 big man.

Marcus Bryant
07-12-2003, 09:20 PM
Right, but the concept put forth by timvp is that the 3rd big doesn't necessarily have to be a 'starting quality' big that you blow a lot of your cap on.

Dunkel Weizen
07-12-2003, 09:33 PM
However much a player costs that puts in 25-30 minutes, defends, rebounds, and isn't totally an inept shot, is how much the Spurs should spend.

If they get that kind of guy, I really don't care whether he starts or Malik does. But they DO need that guy.

I just don't want to see the Spurs miss every decent frontline player available, settle for some bottom-of-the-barrel sap for peanuts or whatever, then plug Malik into the starting lineup and say "No Worries! Malik is just fine!"

That would be utter BS.

Marcus Bryant
07-12-2003, 10:02 PM
Yet the only reason the Spurs would start Rose is if they add significant talent at other positions. It's not like the Spurs don't already have a Tim Duncan in their frontcourt. TD's enjoyed the luxury of having a David Robinson watch his back ever since he entered the league. Now's the time for him to strike out on his own. If he has to deal with that yet he has the best Spurs backcourt to play with since Ice left town then it evens out. There is no reason why the Spurs must stick with the Twin Towers concept.

Shaq H8ter
07-12-2003, 10:52 PM
The main thing with Rose is most the time he can't spot Tim long enough defensively, to allow him to rest.

We need to be able to rest Tim during certain times in the game.
That doesn't mean that person has score and be Tim.
Just that we need to keep outside guys outside and maintain the defense.

We can't just play Tim into the ground.

Marcus Bryant
07-12-2003, 10:57 PM
In that case you load up the bench with veteran bigmen like Willis, Tyrone Hill, and Elden Campbell.

ShoogarBear
07-12-2003, 11:45 PM
1. WHen Malik starts, he can't come off the bench. Obvious, I know, but the Spurs major advantage last year, other than whatizname, was depth. Moving Malik to the starting slot hurts our depth.

2. Almost everyone who should know says Malik is only 6'5" tops, despite how he's listed.

Marcus Bryant
07-12-2003, 11:52 PM
Not saying Rose's the same caliber of player but CBarkley was reportedly only 6'4".

gunawanspurs
07-13-2003, 12:22 AM
For an undersized guy in this league to thrive on, he has to be more talented than other who have better physical attribute, or having a great heart and hustle, unlimited energy to contribute in a limited role.

For Malik, the second description is more appropiate on him. He has a great hustle, and provide a great spark and energy off the bench. But if we load him with more burden -minutes- and responsibility, i'm affraid his limited physicality and TALENT would show their ugly rears.

I like Malik's situation as it is right now, and his contribution off the bench actually is affecting in a great way one of our strong point as a team, which is a good bench quality.

Actually, with a player in malik's quality coming off the bench, we don't really have to have a SUPERSTAR quality BIG to start alongside TD. As long we could get some help in our perimeter talent, a player in the level of Rasho, Kandi -for cheap-, or Brendan haywood would suffice in my book, as long they're long enough to balance Malik's disadvantage when they're playing together for a short stint in the paint.

How we could break the mins distribution at both BIG position for next season :

TD 38 mns
Starting BIG 28 mins

Malik 24 mins
T-Rex 6 mins

ShoogarBear
07-13-2003, 12:28 AM
Hey, Marcus. We get a Charles Barkley in his prime, I will give my permission to start him.

:p

MannyIsGod
07-13-2003, 03:58 AM
Malik's game is precipitated on hustle and effort.

That being said, his hard work has also translated into an accumulation of skills. His shot is MUCH better now than at any time before, and he also has acquired more moves. He still gets himself trapped under the basket more than I'd like, but the fact is he is a quality "big" man in this leauge.

I think he'll end up playing a larger role this year whether he starts or not.

Hopefully he steps up to the plate and elevates his game.

Ghost Writer
07-14-2003, 11:18 AM
timvp, you and all the Spurs homers think Rose can start in this league. Jaques Vaughn and Bruce Bowen start in this league, so that doesn't mean much obviously.

Can the Spurs thrive with Rose starting?

I don't think so.

Rose gives the SPurs so much from off the bench. He brings hustle, energy, rebound putback and big time mathchup problems with the second unit.

You start him and you lose that competitive advantage off the bench.

Plus, he still sucks at jumpshooting. His jumpshot was pathetic in the postseason.






:cooldevil

Marcus Bryant
07-14-2003, 11:22 AM
What's wrong with Rose starting when he'd be counted on to be the 4th or 5th best player in the lineup? Beyond that do you honestly feel that Rose is that bad of a player? He's not. Just as there are fans who are "homers" there are fans who can only be described as "self-hating." You fall in the latter category, fyi.

scott
07-14-2003, 11:25 AM
I don't think Rose would be a bad starter with a competent backup (despite my dislike for Neteribitch, I think he'd be a great backup big- too bad we're looking at him to start).

My only problem with starting Rose are the ones mentioned above- by starting him we lose a pretty great bench player (a guy who has been in the running for 6thMOY a few times). Our bench was a huge reason we are world champions, and it would be a damn shame to go from having a bench that had guys like Kerr, Smith, and Ferry who never even played to a bench that has Tyrone Hill actually getting regular minutes. That's is a pretty good indicator that your bench has gone to total shit.

Ghost Writer
07-14-2003, 11:43 AM
Marcus if you bothered to read what I wrote, Rose's size and skill set is more condusive to coming off the bench as a undersized, hustling center who can cause choas for the opposing team, much like Ginobili does in the backcourt from the bench.

You start him and he's no longer a positive mismatch off the bench. he's something the other team can exploit and then when you bring a traditional big off the bench, things slow down for the Spurs and become more deliberate and predictable — two dirty words for Spurs fans.

Oh, and Rose still can't hit a jumpshot to save his life.


We need Rose off the bench.


P.S.

Nesterovic hasn't been a cench player for two years and would most certainly start for the money we'd be paying him.


:cooldevil

timvp
07-14-2003, 03:42 PM
Then explain Rose's numbers as a starter and the Spurs being like 17-2 with him in the starting lineup.

Apology Accepted, Ghost




P.S.

Yeah, Steve Smith was surely starting with the money the Spurs were paying him.

Ghost Writer
07-14-2003, 04:16 PM
1. Starting in the regular season isn't worth a d@mn to me, timvp. If I had my druthers, I'd have a less-talented prototypical center start and enjoy the benefits of Rose off the bench as clearly articulated twice for your reading pleasure.

2. I told you Steve Smith wouldn't be starting last season when most of you typically stood by Marcus's incorrect assumptions.

We will most certainly be striking out if Rose starts. Nice jumper.


:cooldevil

klubyreturns
07-14-2003, 04:17 PM
Ghost is the only one here who makes any sense. I'm glad he's my ally and buddy.

Dunkel Weizen
07-15-2003, 12:06 AM
I gotta go with Ghost on this one. I think Malik loses some effectivness long-term in the starting lineup. He's a prototypical bench stud.