How Much Money Should the Spurs Offer Jakob Poeltl? It's Complicated

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/jakob-poeltl-san-antonio-spurs-contract-free-agency/

tl;dr:

https://i.imgur.com/gogyB22.jpg

[GAustex]

Lol inserting Jakob, Eubanks and LMA into the meme

[Play Boban]

Supermax

[smush]

4/24 is the max I would go on Jakob.

Drop metu and give drew 2 years 4 million.

[Down Under]

He's getting way more than that from whoever IMO. Elite rim protectors who can move their feet when they get switched onto guards on the perimeter, who also make good decisions & have good timing in PnRs are getting paid $10mil+.

[timvp]

He's getting way more than that from whoever IMO. Elite rim protectors who can move their feet when they get switched onto guards on the perimeter, who also make good decisions & have good timing in PnRs are getting paid $10mil+.

Examples? I don't see any comparable players who made a lot more recently. Last summer, bigs without a jumper were basically at the bottom of the totem pole in free agency.

If you're Poeltl's agent you might point to Clint Capela ... but obviously Capela produces at a much higher level across the board, doesn't have foul issues and even he got his contract 2+ years ago before teams really started having second thoughts about paying non-shooters.

If you're the Spurs, you can point to a younger, better version of Poeltl in Zubac only getting $7 million per year and a very comparable player in Kevon Looney getting $5 million.

[Robz4000]

I think he signs elsewhere and asks the Spurs not to match. He's looked pretty unhappy all season imo; think there might be more behind the scenes than we know.

[phxspurfan]

He's not worth more than what Looney is getting (5M/per). Especially with the bigs we have.

[RD2191]

:wakeup

[DJR210]

Could Eubanks offer cheaper/similar rim protection and close range offense if given the minutes?

[timvp]

Could Eubanks offer cheaper/similar rim protection and close range offense if given the minutes?

Yeah.

The issue though is on the feel-of-the-game-o-meter, Poeltl is about a 9/10 and Eubanks is about a 2/10 at this stage.

[kht]

4 year/36mill. Why lowball?

4 year/24mill is laughable

[BackHome]

I think he signs elsewhere and asks the Spurs not to match. He's looked pretty unhappy all season imo; think there might be more behind the scenes than we know.

I agree I think he will look for guaranteed starting minutes somewhere else as I don’t think he clicks with Poop.

[BatManu20]

Spurs shouldn’t break the bank for Poeltl but if he walks, he will he missed. Spurs’ rim protection will take a considerable dip and that will suck.

[FutureMan]

If a contract is presented, I’d include bonuses for blocks, free throw %, and NOT FOULING! Haha

[Kurgan]

10 mil is an overpay for a big that has no offensive presence. His defense is decent and he would have made for a valuable defensive anchor in the mid-2000s but you can't get away with playing 4 on 5 in the modern NBA. Ben Wallace style bigs are a thing of the past.

[MultiTroll]

Could Eubanks offer cheaper/similar rim protection and close range offense if given the minutes?
yes.
You saw it in the bubble.

[Kurgan]

Could Eubanks offer cheaper/similar rim protection and close range offense if given the minutes?

Eubanks is slower and not quite as good defensively. But he's also younger, cheaper, and has more potential upside on offense(Poeltl looks like he hasn't changed much from his last year on the Raptors).

[Down Under]

Examples? I don't see any comparable players who made a lot more recently. Last summer, bigs without a jumper were basically at the bottom of the totem pole in free agency.

If you're Poeltl's agent you might point to Clint Capela ... but obviously Capela produces at a much higher level across the board, doesn't have foul issues and even he got his contract 2+ years ago before teams really started having second thoughts about paying non-shooters.

If you're the Spurs, you can point to a younger, better version of Poeltl in Zubac only getting $7 million per year and a very comparable player in Kevon Looney getting $5 million.
Thanks for the reply. IMO, none of Looney, Zubac or Capela are comparable to Poeltl defensively. He's a better rim protector than all of them & had his fouling under control by the end of last season. The foul trouble in the bubble (mostly from moving screens) was an anomaly IMO, as has his fouls per 36mins have been under 4 for over a season now.

[timvp]

Thanks for the reply. IMO, none of Looney, Zubac or Capela are comparable to Poeltl defensively. He's a better rim protector than all of themSo ... who are you comparing him to?

[Down Under]

10 mil is an overpay for a big that has no offensive presence. His defense is decent and he would have made for a valuable defensive anchor in the mid-2000s but you can't get away with playing 4 on 5 in the modern NBA. Ben Wallace style bigs are a thing of the past.
I understand what you mean, but you have to look beyond the scoring IMO. Poeltl times & positions his screens very well to give the ball handlers max space to operate as well as drawing defenders as he rolls to the rim. Additionally he's very good at sealing the shot blocker (reminds me of Duncan in that respect) when teammates drive, allowing them often uncontested lanes. These may seem like small things, but you could see in the bubble how good the offense was running when it was him with 4 guards essentially.

[Kurgan]

I understand what you mean, but you have to look beyond the scoring IMO. Poeltl times & positions his screens very well to give the ball handlers max space to operate as well as drawing defenders as he rolls to the rim. Additionally he's very good at sealing the shot blocker (reminds me of Duncan in that respect) when teammates drive, allowing them often uncontested lanes. These may seem like small things, but you could see in the bubble how good the offense was running when it was him with 4 guards essentially.

I understand his value on defense. But his WNBA style offense cost us at least one of the bubble games. Can't remember if it was the Sixers or Nuggets game but every shot he threw up was a weak floater that refused to go in. Softest offense I've ever seen from someone over seven feet.

[Down Under]

I understand his value on defense. But his WNBA style offense cost us at least one of the bubble games. Can't remember if it was the Sixers or Nuggets game but every shot he threw up was a weak floater that refused to go in. Softest offense I've ever seen from someone over seven feet.
Yeah it was the 6ers. That was a soft finish, but it seems as though it's a thing he can actually improve (unlike becoming an offensive guru) - the guy is massive & he is capable of flushing that.

[Down Under]

So ... who are you comparing him to?
Bogut at the Warriors? Although I think he was still a better finisher at that point.

[timvp]

Bogut at the Warriors? Although I think he was still a better finisher at that point.

Not a bad comparison, tbh. Although...

1) Bogut was still able to do Bogut/Poeltl things after his Warriors days and could barely get any contract offers.
2) Bogut hasn't signed a big contract in about a decade so can't use him as a direct comp to Poeltl.
3) If Warriors Bogut was a free agent today, I don't think he makes more than ~$8 million at most.

[DMC]

Pop should max him out then dip for the Nets.

[daslicer]

10 mil is an overpay for a big that has no offensive presence. His defense is decent and he would have made for a valuable defensive anchor in the mid-2000s but you can't get away with playing 4 on 5 in the modern NBA. Ben Wallace style bigs are a thing of the past.

Ben Wallace would be even better in this current NBA. Ben was super athletic in his prime and built like a truck. He would still be getting a lot of blocks and rebounds and would be great in small ball situations.

[DMC]

Ben Wallace would be even better in this current NBA. Ben was super athletic in his prime and built like a truck. He would still be getting a lot of blocks and rebounds and would be great in small ball situations.

They'd intentionally foul him so much he'd be on the bench.

[daslicer]

They'd intentionally foul him so much he'd be on the bench.

He would still be great. There is only so much fouling you can do until you end up in the penalty. Look at what happened to the Spurs when they got carried away with Hack-A-Jordan in '15.

[DJR210]

Yeah.

The issue though is on the feel-of-the-game-o-meter, Poeltl is about a 9/10 and Eubanks is about a 2/10 at this stage.

It's gonna be interesting

[daslicer]

I look at Poeltl as a poor man's version of Splitter while Eubanks is a poor man's version of Chris Andersen. None of them should be getting starter money.

[Down Under]

Not a bad comparison, tbh. Although...

1) Bogut was still able to do Bogut/Poeltl things after his Warriors days and could barely get any contract offers.
2) Bogut hasn't signed a big contract in about a decade so can't use him as a direct comp to Poeltl.
3) If Warriors Bogut was a free agent today, I don't think he makes more than ~$8 million at most.
Possibly, but Bogut looked pretty washed (not moving that well) when he played in the NBL down here in 2018 (even though he was the MVP :lol) - he had the knee injuries during the 2016 finals, then broke his leg pretty bad the start of the next season with Cavs. Agree RE how long ago the contract was, but I still think he would have decent value today as a rim running big.

[ElNono]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/a62fcad85c935ed2fc9a803b9d63d11e/tenor.gif?itemid=5205899

[Spursfanfromafar]

I think the more important question for the Spurs is to whether or not to move from the Demar-Lamarcus veteran core. If Demar declines his option and becomes a free agent, then there is a domino effect from there ..if not, then the Spurs must think of trading Aldridge for a rebounding PF or a long SF and retain Poeltl. While Aldridge is really good at what he does, he doesn't fit the guard centric roster we have and is not the guy to have during a youth movement as well.

Demar has proved that he can gel well with the younger lot and allows them to grow. Aldridge has expanded his game but he is also too old now and too slow to defend at the perimeter.

Poeltl is valuable as a rim protecting, screen setting, pick and roll big. He needs to add some more polish to his finishing and he will max out as a Tyson Chandler. Eubanks can back him up.

[venitian navigator]

I think the more important question for the Spurs is to whether or not to move from the Demar-Lamarcus veteran core. If Demar declines his option and becomes a free agent, then there is a domino effect from there ..if not, then the Spurs must think of trading Aldridge for a rebounding PF or a long SF and retain Poeltl. While Aldridge is really good at what he does, he doesn't fit the guard centric roster we have and is not the guy to have during a youth movement as well.

Demar has proved that he can gel well with the younger lot and allows them to grow. Aldridge has expanded his game but he is also too old now and too slow to defend at the perimeter.

Poeltl is valuable as a rim protecting, screen setting, pick and roll big. He needs to add some more polish to his finishing and he will max out as a Tyson Chandler. Eubanks can back him up.

Anybody knows for sure when is the deadline for DDR for exercising or not his player option? Its before or after the lottery and before or after the draft? I also think al, team startegies for next season will depend on his choice so the timing will be extremely important to comprehend the future choices of our FO....

[ragas]

Poeltl's worth should be 8-12 million. If necessary I would slightly overpay for him, say 3y/42 to keep the young core together. Why? Poeltl fits perfectly with their style of play and the young guards benefit from Poeltl on defense as their anchor, but more so on offense (screen setting, rolling). If I were the Spurs I wouldn't want to loose a center with his skillset.

A 3 year contract also allow them to draft & develop a young center for the future. If Poeltl gets better within these 3 years, great for the Spurs! If not, the young center should be ready to start for them and Poeltl leaves or takes a new contract for less money.
A 3 year contract also means his contract would be off the books when Keldon & Samanic are due for an extension.

What are the other options?
1) LMA stays. Why should the Spurs keep him on the roster and why would LMA want to stay in SA? He doesn't fit IMO and the Spurs aren't making the playoffs next season anyway. Giving him a new contract after this season would be dumb, so they should trade him for assets now or no later than the trade deadline.
2) Eubanks. I really like him, but he's a backup-center and needs more time. Should Poeltl leave after his 3 year contract ends Eubanks can play the backup.

[cd021]

Ben Wallace would be even better in this current NBA. Ben was super athletic in his prime and built like a truck. He would still be getting a lot of blocks and rebounds and would be great in small ball situations.

Yeah, I don't agree. Ben was a stellar shot blocker and rebounder but his strength allowed him to defend players like Shaq and Duncan one on on. He'd have no chance guarding out of the paint in today's NBA.

[ragas]

The final complicating factor that needs to be addressed is that Poeltl doesn’t sound like he’ll be happy (https://news4sanantonio.com/sports/spurs-zone/poeltl-says-hes-open-to-leaving-spurs-in-free-agency-looking-for-a-larger-role) to return to San Antonio if he’ll be coming off the bench. In an interview during the stoppage, Poeltl made it clear he wasn’t thrilled by his lack of minutes this season and that he wants to be a starter going forward.
That stance by Poeltl might force the Spurs to either commit to Poeltl as a starter or prepare to let him leave. If he’ll truly be unhappy coming off the bench and finds a team willing to pay him and start him, Poeltl could sign an offer sheet and publicly announce that he doesn’t want the Spurs to match it. That could get messy — and it’d be the risk of allowing him to set his own market.


Some things have to be clarified. Poeltl NEVER said that he demands to start. In the interview with the Austrian APA, when he talked about this stuff, he said that he isn't happy with his playing time. He didn't expect to start, but to increase his minutes every season. And he was very self-critical: That it's on him to earn it and that he expected more from himself (!).

He also said that he likes SA and the organization, but for his development it wouldn't be good to play another year under similar conditions (means: 16-18 mpg). Poeltl would be happy to return to SA if he played 22+ mpg. If not, he surely would prefer an other destination.

[Chinook]

Poeltl's worth should be 8-12 million.

Sounds like a lot for a filler guy.


1) LMA stays. Why should the Spurs keep him on the roster and why would LMA want to stay in SA? He doesn't fit IMO and the Spurs aren't making the playoffs next season anyway. Giving him a new contract after this season would be dumb, so they should trade him for assets now or no later than the trade deadline.

They barely missed the playoffs this year (and might've made it had Murray not messed it up). The idea that they'd be worse next year with a high pick, no Forbes and the development of the younger players doesn't sit right. Certainly, Aldridge is the best big on the team, and if he wants to sign and extension, it makes sense to listen. The dude's a HoFer still playing at a high level. He's also a local player who's been the engine of the team for years now. If he wants to stay, you let him.


2) Eubanks. I really like him, but he's a backup-center and needs more time. Should Poeltl leave after his 3 year contract ends Eubanks can play the backup.

If Poeltl leaves, the team will have to sign a center to compete with Eubanks and/or draft a center who can already play NBA minutes. I'm a strong proponent of them drafting a center anyway, but if everyone stays, that player would likely push Drew off the team.

But 3) Just sign someone else -- it's a real option. The reason why Poeltl's contract isn't slated to be as high as you are stating is that the center market is pretty saturated every year. For half that money, they can find a good player. In a normal year, there'd be an issue with using the MLE, but because the Spurs may not even use the MLE this year due to tax issues, using it instead of Poeltl actually works. It's a pretty decent list: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/center/ and the team can probably find one of those guys who'd agree to the LLE even if they have an MLE target.

You seem to really like Poeltl despite trying to downplay that. That's whatever -- he's not the worst player to like. But it's dissonant that you think both that he's worth almost twice the market value of non-star centers AND that he'd only be a stop gap to a young center the team develops. If the team isn't contending anyway, why not just not sign Poeltl, sign a cheap meh guy and then develop a young center? If LMA should be traded, why shouldn't the Spurs be looking to get value from Poeltl too, since he's apparently worth so much on the open market? And it's not like if LMA is traded, a center is likely to be coming back in the exchange anyway.

[exstatic]

Yeah, I don't agree. Ben was a stellar shot blocker and rebounder but his strength allowed him to defend players like Shaq and Duncan one on on. He'd have no chance guarding out of the paint in today's NBA.

People just don’t understand the sea change that has happened in the NBA, and to be honest, it took me maybe two years What did it for me was when Houston salary dumped Clint Capela. He was an athletic big, not some lumbering dinosaur, and Golden State played him off the floor in the playoffs.

[offset formation]

He's getting way more than that from whoever IMO. Elite rim protectors who can move their feet when they get switched onto guards on the perimeter, who also make good decisions & have good timing in PnRs are getting paid $10mil+.

Who is this elite rim protector that makes good decisions guy that you're referencing?

Not the guy that got his shit pushed in in very limited minutes because of foul trouble vs Jokic and Embiid, surely.

If you want big boy dollars, you've gotta take big boy minutes and big boy centers.

3 yrs 15 is the best I do. If he takes it, good for both sides.

[BillMc]

Have we all given up on Metu?

[Chinook]

Merely being a good rim-protector isn't good enough in the NBA nowadays because teams shoot so many jumpers. You have to be switchable. I wouldn't go so far as to say you have to be able to really stay with PGs, but you have to be able to follow the gameplan and force the shooter off the line and in the direction your team expects. A lot of that is more mental than folks here are saying. Ben's defensive IQ was world-class, and he had above-average mobility in his day. I doubt he'd be the borderline HoFer in the modern era, but he'd probably still be on a roster. The biggest issue is he wouldn't be scoring enough to make up for his lessened defensive effectiveness.

People overrate the importance of shooting for bigs. It's always helpful, and not being able to shoot certain caps a guy's ceiling. But vertical spacing is also important, and a guy who runs hard and finishes opens up gaps for shooters. Like, I think DeJuan Blair would still be an offensive force in the modern NBA (don't get too excited @play blair -- I mean the young version of him). He was a strong roller, tenacious rebounder and excellent finisher. He's struggle to play the four in the modern NBA, but the deemphasis on centers would actually help him. Still, his defense would be doodoo. Maybe if he'd had ACLs, he'd've been a bit more mobile. Whatever.

Poeltl, yeah. He's just not aggressive enough on offense, and I'm not sure he has any potential there. Even when he overwhelms a team, it feels more like luck. He's just a lunch-pail player on that end. And it's not like his a DPOY either. He's a great backup center and an okay starter. They just need to not get confused and think he's a sure-fire starter or that he provides a ton of value over replacement-level players. A lot of young guys will be looking for contracts in the upcoming off-seasons if they want to keep a lot of them, they can't afford to overpay any of them.

[Chinook]

Have we all given up on Metu?

I never really loved him, but I could see PatFO still liking him. They apparently were really secretive about scouting him, and they gave him a better deal than most second-rounders get. I think they keep him past his guarantee date, but they might cut him after that. They seem to be in love with dead money nowadays.

[exstatic]

Have we all given up on Metu?

Metu was drafted, Eubanks was not, and E signed a two way contract. In the two years since, E has made clear and definite progress, and is the better NBA prospect. He looks like he belongs on the floor, and and metu really still doesn’t. I’d dump him unless there was no other way to put together a 13 man roster.

[r0drig0lac]

25/4 or GTFO

[ragas]

If the team isn't contending anyway, why not just not sign Poeltl, sign a cheap meh guy and then develop a young center? If LMA should be traded, why shouldn't the Spurs be looking to get value from Poeltl too, since he's apparently worth so much on the open market?

These are options I also thought about.


They barely missed the playoffs this year (and might've made it had Murray not messed it up). The idea that they'd be worse next year with a high pick, no Forbes and the development of the younger players doesn't sit right.

With Golden State back to full strength & Phoenix rising, also New Orleans with Zion getting better, I would wonder if they had a chance.

[Dex]

It would be a shame to give up on Poeltl this early. Considering DeMar's time in San Antonio is probably limited, he is one of two assets that Spurs got from the Kawhi trade that they can use to build for the future (with the other being Johnson).

He's never gonna be a star player but I like the Splitter/Oberto comparisons. He was a 9th overall pick, and I do think that centers like him have a place in t:lolday's NBA. I also don't support the Spurs going micro-ball like Houston or Boston has, which means you have to have at least one "traditional" center on the team.

Yes, they need to focus on size and athleticism on the wings (a defensive SF or mobile PF), but I think that would elevate Poeltl's game since he wouldn't have to be plugging up defensive leaks all the time.

I agree that the Spurs shouldn't break the bank for him, and hopefully the market will support that. But I would hate to look back in a few years and say all we got out of giving up Kawhi and Green was KJ.

[tbdog]

Merely being a good rim-protector isn't good enough in the NBA nowadays because teams shoot so many jumpers. You have to be switchable. I wouldn't go so far as to say you have to be able to really stay with PGs, but you have to be able to follow the gameplan and force the shooter off the line and in the direction your team expects. A lot of that is more mental than folks here are saying. Ben's defensive IQ was world-class, and he had above-average mobility in his day. I doubt he'd be the borderline HoFer in the modern era, but he'd probably still be on a roster. The biggest issue is he wouldn't be scoring enough to make up for his lessened defensive effectiveness.

People overrate the importance of shooting for bigs. It's always helpful, and not being able to shoot certain caps a guy's ceiling. But vertical spacing is also important, and a guy who runs hard and finishes opens up gaps for shooters. Like, I think DeJuan Blair would still be an offensive force in the modern NBA (don't get too excited @play blair -- I mean the young version of him). He was a strong roller, tenacious rebounder and excellent finisher. He's struggle to play the four in the modern NBA, but the deemphasis on centers would actually help him. Still, his defense would be doodoo. Maybe if he'd had ACLs, he'd've been a bit more mobile. Whatever.

Poeltl, yeah. He's just not aggressive enough on offense, and I'm not sure he has any potential there. Even when he overwhelms a team, it feels more like luck. He's just a lunch-pail player on that end. And it's not like his a DPOY either. He's a great backup center and an okay starter. They just need to not get confused and think he's a sure-fire starter or that he provides a ton of value over replacement-level players. A lot of young guys will be looking for contracts in the upcoming off-seasons if they want to keep a lot of them, they can't afford to overpay any of them.

I actually think shooting bigs is pretty potent. I explained a while back that if you can't block a jump shot, it's pretty much an open shot these days. You can't crowd the shooter. You must allow him to land. Brook Lopez is 7ft and will shoot 5 ft behind the line. You have to guard that with size. And if your out there guarding that, who in the hell is protecting the rim in the league where you can't handcheck guards.

This is why I think Mills has regressed. He can still put the ball in the basket but players now just shoot over him, more so than ever. And he can't block a jump shot then and he won't now. Same as Forbes.

[BackHome]

Anybody knows for sure when is the deadline for DDR for exercising or not his player option? Its before or after the lottery and before or after the draft? I also think al, team startegies for next season will depend on his choice so the timing will be extremely important to comprehend the future choices of our FO....

I thought it was one week from his last game played?

[offset formation]

25/4 or GTFO

A little rich for my blood, but this would be the far limits of any acceptable contract I'd offer.

[Mugen]

:lol I forgot them guaranteeing LMA's final year when they didn't really have a reason to, smh.

[Dex]

I actually think shooting bigs is pretty potent. I explained a while back that if you can't block a jump shot, it's pretty much an open shot these days. You can't crowd the shooter. You must allow him to land. Brook Lopez is 7ft and will shoot 5 ft behind the line. You have to guard that with size. And if your out there guarding that, who in the hell is protecting the rim in the league where you can't handcheck guards.

This is why I think Mills has regressed. He can still put the ball in the basket but players now just shoot over him, more so than ever. And he can't block a jump shot then and he won't now. Same as Forbes.

At least Mills isn't afraid to bump a guy a bit and stay in their space (as much as the league will allow).

Forbes literally just gets out of the way or gets beat, and then gets pouty like NBA defense is some sort of foreign concept to him. Yes, if you jump high on a screen or over-commit to a side, you are going to get beat!

[Excessive Egotist]

Curious to read your take on Popovich's trade value. Doc Rivers is the only comp I know of. He netted a first. Pop is much older, obviously. But the Nets seem to have a mandate from ownership and, perhaps, Durant and Irving to pay premium. Picks for Pop and a sign and trade of Harris plus asset for Aldridge?

If Nets make an offer, you'd imagine they'd want it done before free agency.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Advanced Stats grade Poeltl really well. Among centers who have played substantial minutes, Poeltl is top 10 in RAPTOR ratings according to fivethirtyeight.com and among the few who are a net positive in both offense and defense. In terms of plus /minus, he is the best center in the business and his overall RAPTOR falls because of poorer box score ratings.

In sum, he is quite valuable in this league relative to his position. He should not command more than $10 million because of diminished value for centers, but below that/par he will be a good bargain for the Spurs. And he is a must for next season if the Spurs need to contend and to help their youth grow, in my view.

[Chinook]

These are options I also thought about.



With Golden State back to full strength & Phoenix rising, also New Orleans with Zion getting better, I would wonder if they had a chance.

I'm only worried about GS in that race. New Orleans isn't going to take a big leapt unless Zion completely changes his body AND they get some good players. I think Phoenix needs a star to make the leap. It wouldn't even surprise me if GS falls into the middle of the pack. They're older, and theirs style of play has become way more normal since their pre-Durant days. The Spurs might miss the playoffs, but they don't have to. Pop just needs to start playing the right guys and stay away from the Beli/Forbes types.

[Chinook]

I actually think shooting bigs is pretty potent. I explained a while back that if you can't block a jump shot, it's pretty much an open shot these days. You can't crowd the shooter. You must allow him to land. Brook Lopez is 7ft and will shoot 5 ft behind the line. You have to guard that with size. And if your out there guarding that, who in the hell is protecting the rim in the league where you can't handcheck guards.

This is why I think Mills has regressed. He can still put the ball in the basket but players now just shoot over him, more so than ever. And he can't block a jump shot then and he won't now. Same as Forbes.

I think you misunderstood me or I wasn't clear. I think shooting bigs are valuable. I'm the guy who thinks Matt Bonner was one of the most influential players of the last 15 years. Spacing is a three-dimensional concept. It's not just along the three-point line or toward the basket. Height, launch angle and release time all play a huge role. It's why I was adamant that Jimmer Freddette was not a good floor-spacer for the NBA even though a lot of folks were like, "Shooting is the last thing you have to worry about with him." Basically, his mechanics were so bad that he wasn't able to get clean looks unless teams sagged way off him, so he did nothing to help his teammates. Anyway, Bonner's ability to defend his position while being able to shoot at a high level helped recontexualize what it meant to be a stretch-big. It wasn't just a curiosity anymore. A role-player could come in and do it while also not forcing his team to play small, and it started to blow up traditional two-big lineups, especially in the regular season. That's why he was the plus-minus king. It wasn't an accident or something that disproved the stat's applicability.

So I meant was that a big can get by without a jump shot if they are an aggressive rim-runner, relentless rebounding and powerful finisher. You want a guy who is so tenacious that teams aren't comfortable leaving a small on him or letting him go on a roll. That's how Montrezl Harrell is so good despite not being a shooter. A small can also get by on vertical spacing, but then they need to dominate the ball and penetrate all the time while the rest of the team spaces on the outside.

[exstatic]

I thought it was one week from his last game played?

That’s what I thought too.

[daslicer]

Yeah, I don't agree. Ben was a stellar shot blocker and rebounder but his strength allowed him to defend players like Shaq and Duncan one on on. He'd have no chance guarding out of the paint in today's NBA.

He would still be allowed to be physical when guarding big men. The refs still allow you to be physical with bigmen. The difference today is you are not allowed to be physical with perimeter players. Wallace would also be good at switching defensively so he would be fine.

[Thomas82]

I think he signs elsewhere and asks the Spurs not to match. He's looked pretty unhappy all season imo; think there might be more behind the scenes than we know.

I think this is most likely what will happen.

[RC_Drunkford]

Poeltl doesn’t have any offensive moves after 5 years in the NBA. He should’ve been developed that. Also nobody will start him. 8 Million per year is the max and it should be less

[RC_Drunkford]

I find it funny that people here say Aldridge doesn’t fit with the 4-guard line up. That’s exactly the line up he has to play with. A bunch of guards who can drive and kick. He would get plenty open shots and easy buckets playing with DeRozan/Walker/Murray/White. They all can set him up on offense

[gambit1990]

poeltl has underwhelmed. send him, demar, and murray to the nets for their young guys. la / jarrett allen / eubanks frontcourt.

[itzsoweezee]

poeltl has underwhelmed. send him, demar, and murray to the nets for their young guys. la / jarrett allen / eubanks frontcourt.

I don't think the nets are dumb enough to do that, but that would be a huge upgrade for the spurs

[gambit1990]

I don't think the nets are dumb enough to do that, but that would be a huge upgrade for the spurs
maybe if the spurs included pop in the deal.......................

[KobesAchilles]

0 dollars for 0 years. Go back to Austria big boy

[Chucho]

The only answer is: the absolute minimum we can skirt by with.

[Chinook]

^Nah, to me that implies that Poe is essential, and I don't think he is.

[exstatic]

I think this is most likely what will happen.

The Spurs-will not rescind his QO. This isn’t some journeyman like Baynes or Simmons. He’s a former top 10 pick. If he wants out, his agent will have to find a team willing to compensate the Spurs.

[Brazil]

4 year/36mill. Why lowball?

4 year/24mill is laughable

sup' Jakob ?

[BackHome]

Lol. :lol

[cd021]

He would still be allowed to be physical when guarding big men. The refs still allow you to be physical with bigmen. The difference today is you are not allowed to be physical with perimeter players. Wallace would also be good at switching defensively so he would be fine.

I don't Ben Wallace switching, even back then. So no chance he'd be able to guard outside the paint in today's NBA. He might've held value against the likes of Embiid and Jokic in the post but that gets negated once they stretch their game out. He'd be lucky to be a 15 mpg backup type of big in todays NBA

[R. DeMurre]

My feeling is that until the Spurs can somehow land a big star, the main goal is to assemble as many net positive players as possible. I was disappointed, for example, when they let Davis Bertans go while keeping Forbes. I think that was a bad decision. One reason I'm optimistic about the young guys is that I think White, Johnson, Walker, and Murray can all be net positive guys, and I think Poeltl has illustrated that he is also. Barring an outrageous offer from another team, I hope they will match and keep him.

[cd021]

The Spurs-will not rescind his QO. This isn’t some journeyman like Baynes or Simmons. He’s a former top 10 pick. If he wants out, his agent will have to find a team willing to compensate the Spurs.

Agreed, at least they shouldn't. They should make clear that they intend to bring him back; if another team is interested, then they'd have to work out and sign and trade to compensate the Spurs. Similar to the Macolm Brogdon situation with the Pacers and Bucks.


Metu was drafted, Eubanks was not, and E signed a two way contract. In the two years since, E has made clear and definite progress, and is the better NBA prospect. He looks like he belongs on the floor, and and metu really still doesn’t. I’d dump him unless there was no other way to put together a 13 man roster.

Its weird, I thought Metu was actually a lot better than last season but he didn't get much of a chance. Granted, when he did he didn't exactly take advantage of it. Eubanks certainly did. Its hard to say. If both DDR and LMA are back next season then will be salary cap issues as you know. Keeping Metu might be better in that situation as opposed to an empty spot.


People just don’t understand the sea change that has happened in the NBA, and to be honest, it took me maybe two years What did it for me was when Houston salary dumped Clint Capela. He was an athletic big, not some lumbering dinosaur, and Golden State played him off the floor in the playoffs.

The league tends to change to counter act the dominant teams. Capella getting played off the court by GSW meant that Houston had no use for him, if that's the team that they tried to beat. With GSW out of the picture- for the year at least, things may start to trend back how it was before they came dominant. Still, Wallace would have no chance--even back a few years ago.

[tbdog]

I think you misunderstood me or I wasn't clear. I think shooting bigs are valuable. I'm the guy who thinks Matt Bonner was one of the most influential players of the last 15 years. Spacing is a three-dimensional concept. It's not just along the three-point line or toward the basket. Height, launch angle and release time all play a huge role. It's why I was adamant that Jimmer Freddette was not a good floor-spacer for the NBA even though a lot of folks were like, "Shooting is the last thing you have to worry about with him." Basically, his mechanics were so bad that he wasn't able to get clean looks unless teams sagged way off him, so he did nothing to help his teammates. Anyway, Bonner's ability to defend his position while being able to shoot at a high level helped recontexualize what it meant to be a stretch-big. It wasn't just a curiosity anymore. A role-player could come in and do it while also not forcing his team to play small, and it started to blow up traditional two-big lineups, especially in the regular season. That's why he was the plus-minus king. It wasn't an accident or something that disproved the stat's applicability.

So I meant was that a big can get by without a jump shot if they are an aggressive rim-runner, relentless rebounding and powerful finisher. You want a guy who is so tenacious that teams aren't comfortable leaving a small on him or letting him go on a roll. That's how Montrezl Harrell is so good despite not being a shooter. A small can also get by on vertical spacing, but then they need to dominate the ball and penetrate all the time while the rest of the team spaces on the outside.

How come we are seeing more Harrell players in the league. There was that undersized pf for the nuggets, dreadlocks, high motor, could dunk. He had no shot and is out of the league.

[Chinook]

How come we are seeing more Harrell players in the league. There was that undersized pf for the nuggets, dreadlocks, high motor, could dunk. He had no shot and is out of the league.

There are a lot of different little answers. Like Faried is past his prime now and was a player who relied on his athleticism to make up for his size. Faried also played in the NBA last season. He was always a big negative defensively, so even if his offense was okay, he'd still be unplayable, and that was when he was PF rather than a C. Harrell's also way better than Faried was even at his peak. I also think the league overreacted to the Warriors' dominance and forgot about vertical spacing. The Rockets in particular are the kings of trying to get ahead of the league. There aren't a lot of dominant offensive bigs who score inside right now. Zion may end up being one of them. Toppin might be another. The only elite one is Embiid. All of those guys have threes to help their inside games work, which I consider a universal good. Maybe once Simmons gets old and starts to lose athleticism, he'll bulk up and be a bullying center ala Diaw.

[diego]

I think the more important question for the Spurs is to whether or not to move from the Demar-Lamarcus veteran core. If Demar declines his option and becomes a free agent, then there is a domino effect from there ..if not, then the Spurs must think of trading Aldridge for a rebounding PF or a long SF and retain Poeltl. While Aldridge is really good at what he does, he doesn't fit the guard centric roster we have and is not the guy to have during a youth movement as well.

Demar has proved that he can gel well with the younger lot and allows them to grow. Aldridge has expanded his game but he is also too old now and too slow to defend at the perimeter.

Poeltl is valuable as a rim protecting, screen setting, pick and roll big. He needs to add some more polish to his finishing and he will max out as a Tyson Chandler. Eubanks can back him up.

yeah i feel its better to move on from aldridge, let derozan be the vet leader for the youth movement and poetl/eubanks is serviceable center rotation.. would much rather have a good 3D wing to match up with all the star SF in the league than aldridge at this point.

and though ive defended aldridge's impact in the past... after this season i feel like aldridge is more of a "loser" than derozan (sulking, bad effort, etc). at the very least, more inconsistent. factor age and speed of the game, its obviously the best option to move on from him

[DPG21920]

5-6m no matter what or let him go. I’m fine matching if you can trade him.

[cd021]

I'd look hard at moving Aldridge tbh. Either to Portland (Ariza, Hood and a '21 first) or Miami (Olynyk and their 20th pick)

I actually think Aldridge still makes sense with this team but Poeltl is a lot younger. If that's his biggest hang-up about returning to the Spurs then it makes sense to consider trading Aldridge and moving forward with Jakob now.

I think Poeltl gets 4 years, $28 million and Eubanks gets something like 2 years, $6 million.

[Chinook]

Age doesn't matter. Windows in the NBA are extremely fleeting, and you strike when the iron is hot, not when everything is perfect. If you think Jakob is the better player or will be better within the next year or so, it makes sense to choose him. If you believe Aldridge will be better for the next couple years but are concerned that after that the Spurs won't have a backup because Poeltl left this fall, then moving on doesn't make sense. People forget that Tiago Splitter only played one year longer than Duncan did (and even then it was only eight games) despite being more than nine years younger. Poeltl doesn't have Spitter's injury history yet, but Tiago didn't have one either until he was in his late-20s. If in three years or whatever the team ends up needing a starting center, sign one then, or better yet promote a guy the team's been developing. But don't try to preemptively solve problems that don't exist.

[ragas]

Age doesn't matter. Windows in the NBA are extremely fleeting, and you strike when the iron is hot, not when everything is perfect. If you think Jakob is the better player or will be better within the next year or so, it makes sense to choose him. If you believe Aldridge will be better for the next couple years but are concerned that after that the Spurs won't have a backup because Poeltl left this fall, then moving on doesn't make sense.

Age does matter. If not, let Duncan play ;-) And money matters. Aldridge for sure is the better scorer - but defense, passing, screen setting I would give to Poeltl. Is the better scoring worth to pay LMA 10-16 million more than Poeltl?

[tbdog]

Age does matter. If not, let Duncan play ;-) And money matters. Aldridge for sure is the better scorer - but defense, passing, screen setting I would give to Poeltl. Is the better scoring worth to pay LMA 10-16 million more than Poeltl?

Um, yes.

[ragas]

Um, yes.

If you think so... but I don't ;-)
There was enough scoring in the bubble games with LMA missing. With 10-16 million extra you could add a really nice wing player.

[tbdog]

If you think so... but I don't ;-)
There was enough scoring in the bubble games with LMA missing. With 10-16 million extra you could add a really nice wing player.

That's not how cap works. It's not the Spurs have 25mil to spend and they could give it all to LMA or split it with Poeltl and a wing. Also, you need to find another big man that will the play the other 22 mins, cause you are not expecting Poeltl to play 30mins every minute. So you have to find a reliable backup to cover those minutes over a regular season. That will cost you. So it's not quiet like, hey we got an extra 15mil on a wing.

Also if LMA played, Spurs are in the playoffs. Usually that would be worth the extra coin you just spent on your best player. LMA is top 10 big man in the league and is paid just a tad under his value.

[ragas]

That's not how cap works. It's not the Spurs have 25mil to spend and they could give it all to LMA or split it with Poeltl and a wing. Also, you need to find another big man that will the play the other 22 mins, cause you are not expecting Poeltl to play 30mins every minute. So you have to find a reliable backup to cover those minutes over a regular season. That will cost you. So it's not quiet like, hey we got an extra 15mil on a wing.

Also if LMA played, Spurs are in the playoffs. Usually that would be worth the extra coin you just spent on your best player. LMA is top 10 big man in the league and is paid just a tad under his value.

LMA played before the lockdown and they sucked. And no, it's not all on Bryn Forbes.
LMA's on/off-efficiency: -5

[Chinook]

It's basically all on Bryn Forbes though.

[Collins21]

LMA played before the lockdown and they sucked. And no, it's not all on Bryn Forbes.
LMA's on/off-efficiency: -5

Bottom line though if LA plays they don't lose to the 6ers or the nuggets so technically it's true if LMA played they make the playoffs.

[ragas]

Bottom line though if LA plays they don't lose to the 6ers or the nuggets so technically it's true if LMA played they make the playoffs.

Correct me if I‘m wrong: They lost their games against Phi & Den WITH Aldridge earlier in the season.

[offset formation]

LMA played before the lockdown and they sucked. And no, it's not all on Bryn Forbes.
LMA's on/off-efficiency: -5

It is when you're constantly having to play weak side D because your perimeter defenders keep getting beat.

And you are right about one thing. It wasn't just Bryn. It was DeMar. It was Marco. It was Patty. It was Murray. It was Lonnie. It was all of them really, perhaps without the consistent contribution if failure, from DWhite.

If you firm up the perimter D, LMA can still shine defensively even at 34. He's still got plenty left, is strong as an ox, and has plenty of quickness even to hang with guards on switches.

[Collins21]

Correct me if I‘m wrong: They lost their games against Phi & Den WITH Aldridge earlier in the season.

Yeah but there was no Derrick White or DeRozan in each of those games. Poeltl has cost this team multiple games this year because he was inept on the offensive side of the ball.

[offset formation]

Correct me if I‘m wrong: They lost their games against Phi & Den WITH Aldridge earlier in the season.

Different team was trotted out. Also, probably not the games I'd bring up to highlight Poeltl's value. He hardly played in those games and was mistreated physically when he did.

[ragas]

Yeah but there was no Derrick White or DeRozan in each of those games. Poeltl has cost this team multiple games this year because he was inept on the offensive side of the ball.

offense means not just scoring, you know?

[BackHome]

Different team was trotted out. Also, probably not the games I'd bring up to highlight Poeltl's value. He hardly played in those games and was mistreated physically when he did.

Yeah he probably screwed himself out of couple of million dollars with his weak play. Come on Son contract year you gotta get those easy baskets with Dunks not that sissy Charmin crap.

[mo7888]

Part of my thinking would depend on who we are keeping between lma and dmr, I just don't think they really fit. If we keep dmr then trade lma and offer jp a 4 year 8M per contract and start him. If we move on from Dmr by either trade or by him opting out then try and work out a S&T or let him walk if you can't and someone offers more than the QO.

I do think Samanic will end up playing C if he can get stronger. I don't know how committed he is to getting stronger but if the FO thinks he has it in him he might be the better 'next' big in a couple years after lma anyway.

[Down Under]

Who is this elite rim protector that makes good decisions guy that you're referencing?

Not the guy that got his shit pushed in in very limited minutes because of foul trouble vs Jokic and Embiid, surely.

If you want big boy dollars, you've gotta take big boy minutes and big boy centers.

3 yrs 15 is the best I do. If he takes it, good for both sides.
Who cares about Jokic & Embiid - they're the only 2 dominant bigs left & one will likely never be in the Western Conference. His foul trouble was predominantly from ticky tak screen fouls, not when he was guarding those 2.

[Dverde]

I think he goes great with the young core and protects the rim. Obviously someone throws out a crazy off there is no way to match

[SAGirl]

He's a useful and good player to have, but I think the fact he's not satisfied with his minutes means he's gone. I think he will feel that all things being equal $$ he will go play for the team where he has a chance at starting or playing heavier minutes, and the Spurs hopefully look for a guy with more upside for the future.

I'd much rather he got paid than guys like Pau Gasol and Demarre Carroll, but you know that is trolling --Not an option. And I will really regret to have roleplayers get overpaid at this point. I am already grimacing at Murray's deal. It all depends on what happens with Lamarcus at this point I think.

[Nivek_ogre]

I think we keep him. But he definitely lost money playing in the bubble. He didn't overly impress with constantly being in foul trouble.

[offset formation]

Who cares about Jokic & Embiid - they're the only 2 dominant bigs left & one will likely never be in the Western Conference. His foul trouble was predominantly from ticky tak screen fouls, not when he was guarding those 2.

Not against re-signing Poeltl. At 5 million per. Anything above 6 million per is bad player management given you can find in the ballpark of what he brings (extremely limited offensively -- no outside shot whatsover; slightly above average defensively but incapable of holding the best defenders down) for much, much less.

And anyone thinking getting rid of LMA is a positive development simply doesn't appreciate what he does for the Spurs night in and night out, especially defensively. Add in he's adapted his game yo the outside but can still bang down low when you need to, and it's not even close.

[Down Under]

Not against re-signing Poeltl. At 5 million per. Anything above 6 million per is bad player management given you can find in the ballpark of what he brings (extremely limited offensively -- no outside shot whatsover; slightly above average defensively but incapable of holding the best defenders down) for much, much less.

And anyone thinking getting rid of LMA is a positive development simply doesn't appreciate what he does for the Spurs night in and night out, especially defensively. Add in he's adapted his game yo the outside but can still bang down low when you need to, and it's not even close.
If LMA predominantly shoots 3s & limits his post ups (unless he's got mismatches) & we run with him, DD, Keldon, Derrick & Murray, I think we win close to 50 games to next year. The defense is there, good spacing, good shot creators (DD & White), our bench will be strong. Only thing I'm worried about is LMA slipping defensively as he gets older. No point getting rid of LMA, we're not getting someone better in return.

[RC_Drunkford]

It is when you're constantly having to play weak side D because your perimeter defenders keep getting beat.

And you are right about one thing. It wasn't just Bryn. It was DeMar. It was Marco. It was Patty. It was Murray. It was Lonnie. It was all of them really, perhaps without the consistent contribution if failure, from DWhite.

If you firm up the perimter D, LMA can still shine defensively even at 34. He's still got plenty left, is strong as an ox, and has plenty of quickness even to hang with guards on switches.

exactly. Not to mention he will get way more easy shots because all those guys can set him up on offense. LaMarcus fits. You might just have to reduce his minutes a little and give more to Poeltl cause he will have to run up and down the court more

[mo7888]

Who cares about Jokic & Embiid - they're the only 2 dominant bigs left & one will likely never be in the Western Conference. His foul trouble was predominantly from ticky tak screen fouls, not when he was guarding those 2.

I'm not so sure embid never plays in the west. Philly is going to make a decision to move at least one of their main guys this summer if they can. Harris and Horford will be hard to move in this climate and that leaves either Simmons or Embid. In a smaller ball nba they might choose to keep Simmons. I'm not sure what kind of value he brings back though. Bigs aren't valued....big salary...injury prone....but alot of talent....

[Shakril]

Could Eubanks offer cheaper/similar rim protection and close range offense if given the minutes?

No. Eubanks is better on offense, but on Defense its like day and night. Eubanks is more active, but he is not able to anchor a Defense like Poeltl. Its no coincidence, that the Spurs played best with Poeltl on the court. A fact that many overlook.

[TheCerebral1]

Trade him. Get value. He's not worth much long term here. This team needs a FULL REBUILD.

[SpurSpike]

Jakob Poeltl says it is 'realistic' he will stay with the Spurs

https://news4sanantonio.com/sports/jakob-poeltl-says-it-is-realistic-he-will-stay-with-the-spurs

[Thomas82]

Trade him. Get value. He's not worth much long term here. This team needs a FULL REBUILD.

Agreed!!

[ragas]

Jakob Poeltl says it is 'realistic' he will stay with the Spurs

https://news4sanantonio.com/sports/jakob-poeltl-says-it-is-realistic-he-will-stay-with-the-spurs

He also said in an interview today that probably it would have been better to accept the extension offer from the Spurs because of the pandemic.

[Seventyniner]

He also said in an interview today that probably it would have been better to accept the extension offer from the Spurs because of the pandemic.

I must have missed it, what extension offer did he mean?

[BackHome]

If he is cheap definitely keep him but if price goes up do a sign and trade.

[ragas]

I must have missed it, what extension offer did he mean?

Rookie extension before th season. The Spurs seem to have offered him an extension.

[TD 21]

I don't care what Poeltl wants nor should he influence a potential Aldridge trade (sure, that should be pursued if as expected he plans to leave in a year anyway, but not for that reason).

Offer him 3-4 years at $6-8 million annually. If he receives an offer sheet in the range of $8-10 million annually, match it. If for some reason (Spurs luck) it's above, then there's a decision to be made. If it's to cut bait, try working out a sign and trade. No more giving away assets, especially at positions of need.

[ace3g]

Not sure if the interview they are referring to is the video from this article:

https://twitter.com/PoltlFan/status/1296913219873800198

https://twitter.com/JeffGSpursZone/status/1296911350711623683

https://twitter.com/JeffGSpursZone/status/1296913418281267200

**Looks like video is region blocked.

[ragas]

There was a press conference with him today in Vienna.

[Dex]

He'll be back.

[SAGirl]

He also said in an interview today that probably it would have been better to accept the extension offer from the Spurs because of the pandemic.
I bet Murray is thanking his lucky stars that he signed the extension he did.

Jakob’s agent must have got him back down to reality. He won’t be the only one affected by the current COVID outlook. I suspect it will trickle down to others as well.

[ragas]

I watched the press conference. Two interesting details that aren't mentioned in the article or on twitter:

1) If he had to choose between a good situation (playing time, success, team chemistry) tand more money, he wouldn't choose the money.
2) He sees his future not on a team, which won around 20 games this season, because he is not the player that improves such a team to 40 wins with scoring 30 ppg. But he can he can help a team that's already successful with doing the dirty work and making a difference.

That doesn't sound like he wants to go to teams like Detroit or Charlotte.

[MultiTroll]

Q. Can / will the Spurs win a Championship with Poodle playing C starting and playing large minutes?

a. No

He's got some game but is clearly middle of the road talent. Will / did get eaten up by for example Joker. Joker is pretty damn good given todays centerless NBA so that is not a total dis on Poodle.

If Spurs win a 'Chip with Poodle i will tatoo his name on my taint and post it here.

[BillMc]

He'll be back.

The last Austrian who said "I'll be back" made an impact.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/l41YaZU1O0vYIqZMY/source.gif

[timvp]

I watched the press conference. Two interesting details that aren't mentioned in the article or on twitter:

1) If he had to choose between a good situation (playing time, success, team chemistry) tand more money, he wouldn't choose the money.
2) He sees his future not on a team, which won around 20 games this season, because he is not the player that improves such a team to 40 wins with scoring 30 ppg. But he can he can help a team that's already successful with doing the dirty work and making a difference.

That doesn't sound like he wants to go to teams like Detroit or Charlotte.

Thanks for the info, ragas.

Reading between the lines and adding in his previous comments, it sounds like he won't be happy coming back if he's only getting 16-18 minutes behind Aldridge. Add in the shrinking league and I highly doubt he could reach 20 minutes per game coming off the bench even factoring in Aldridge's decline. For Poeltl to get the kind of role in San Antonio that he wants, he'd have to start.

Did you get the sense from the interview that he'd want to leave the Spurs if he's not satisfied with his projected role?

[pad300]

...

If Spurs win a 'Chip with Poodle i will tatoo his name on my taint and post it here.

TimVP, it is your responsibility to IP ban this poster if we ever get into a finals series with Poetl on the roster. I don't want to see it...

[ragas]

Thanks for the info, ragas (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=52418).

Reading between the lines and adding in his previous comments, it sounds like he won't be happy coming back if he's only getting 16-18 minutes behind Aldridge. Add in the shrinking league and I highly doubt he could reach 20 minutes per game coming off the bench even factoring in Aldridge's decline. For Poeltl to get the kind of role in San Antonio that he wants, he'd have to start.

Did you get the sense from the interview that he'd want to leave the Spurs if he's not satisfied with his projected role?

Hard to say. But my sense is - because of what he said an how he said it - that he wants to come back. There are good reasons for that: The team chemistry seems to be okay, working with Chip & Tim is perfect for his development, the Spurs are known for their winning culture & have promising talent on the roster where he fits. If the Spurs want to continue playing with high pace, Aldridge needs more rest and that gives Poeltl more minutes. And I guess Aldridge will be gone after the next season. That gives Poeltl some hope for an increased role at least.

Because Poeltl surely has thought about, which team would be a better fit. I scrolled through the list and there are not many options. Maybe Toronto, but it depends what their plans are with Van Fleet, Ibaka & Gasol and I don‘t think Poeltl fits their style of play anymore. Detroit & Charlotte are Not really known for their winning culture and all the other teams with cap space are more or less set at the 5 Spot or are no good fit.

[MultiTroll]

I watched the press conference. Two interesting details that aren't mentioned in the article or on twitter:

1) If he had to choose between a good situation (playing time, success, team chemistry) tand more money, he wouldn't choose the money.
2) He sees his future not on a team, which won around 20 games this season, because he is not the player that improves such a team to 40 wins with scoring 30 ppg. But he can he can help a team that's already successful with doing the dirty work and making a difference.
He sounds super self aware.
Great attitude.

[venitian navigator]

Imho this is the perfect situation for a 4 year contract at a small x year amount...next year LMA minutes will be necessarly limited by father time and a different, more up tempo, style that's necessary to embrace with three young guards like White, Lonnie and DJM and a small pf like probably DDR is gonna be for the rest of his career.
LMA and Poeltl (with probably Eubanks as a third string) can share minutes at the 5...I don't see a 35 years old big playing more than 24/25 minutes a game in a team up tempo style oriented. The skinnier version of LMA seen in recent photos looks like supports this theory (probably the FO has told him to concentrate on running and 3 points...) and less muscles in his body could also mean a better health situation and the chance to prolong his career for some more years.

I'm really curious of this draft and free agency...and of the FO works in general for this year.

If I had to imagine our future next starting five and bench, as of now, I see it this way...considering that, barring trades, we're stacked with players under contract and the only sure unknown quantities will be, as of now, the 11th pick and a veteran we can sign with the MLE

White - Walker - Johnson - DDR - LMA
DJM - Mills - (11th p/MLE guy) Gay Poeltl
Q.W. (11th p./MLE guy) Samanic Lyles Eubanks

[ragas]

News from Poeltl
@ Spurs: "I feel very much at home in San Antonio and can well imagine continuing to play there. The decision about that lies more with the Spurs than with me"

@workout: "I work individually on my shot, on pick-and-roll situations, finishes under the rim and post-ups. In addition, there is the Spurs strength training program"

And he'll return to the States in the first week of November (probably)


https://news4sanantonio.com/sports/poeltl-says-he-feels-comfortable-with-spurs-but-final-decision-up-to-san-antonio

[EasyMoney]

He is worth nothing more over 15m. That's being generous. Oklahoma City has a problem with Steven adams as well. 25m to give them the same level of production with no jumpshot. Nerlens Noel, Jerian grant, even Kenneth faried will offer better production off the bench than Jakob if they think he can't be a permanent starter for the price

[FutureMan]

15 million?? Hard pass. Anything over a flat 10 million a year would immediately be the worst contract on the Spurs roster.

[Dex]

15 million?? Hard pass. Anything over a flat 10 million a year would immediately be the worst contract on the Spurs roster.

Was there a Mills trade that I somehow missed?

[KobesAchilles]

Let him walk. His 6 fouls a game are useless since he uses them all at once

[spurspl]

max 10mil but id prefer to s&t or just let him walk. bye jakob

[FutureMan]

Was there a Mills trade that I somehow missed?

Nope. You didn’t miss it.

Patty Mills’ 13.5 million contract is better IMHO than Poeltl at anything more than 10 million.
-38% in 3’s
-86% for FT’s
-Spurs champ
-possible future coach?
-*expiring*



It’s not talked about enough but Poeltl is probably the 2nd or 3rd worst free throw shooter in the league. If the Spurs sign him to a contract MULTIPLE millions of dollars more than Zubac, they deserve to be a lottery team for the entirety of said contract.

Mills’ contract was frustrating at first and wasn’t worth it in the beginning but that time has passed.

[BackHome]

Yeah if he wants the money it’s a hard pass for me as he has Zero offensive game to me he is a good bench player and should be paid accordingly.

[mo7888]

Not interested at 15M at all... I'm not sure I'd do 10M either in this era. 32M over 4 (8 per) is where I'd value him.

[ZeusWillJudge]

He is worth nothing more over 15m.

Your screen name is "Easy Money". I understand.

[ragas]

I hope he gets an offer the Spurs don’t want to match. The sooner he leaves the better for him and the Spurs. If he wants to develop as a basketball player and to win, as he said, San Antonio is the wrong place to be. And the Spurs don’t need a player like him for tanking/rebuilding. He could also accept the qualifying offer and leave after the next season, if he wants a better contract. But as he doesn’t look for the money, he better should go now to a contending team which needs rim protection and his screen setting. The Spurs have no shooters, his screen setting is useless for them.

A little bit over the mid level exception should do it. Spurs can look for a young big with better fitting skills and Poeltl is also fine with it.

[MultiTroll]

If the goal is Championship, he simply is not talented enough to ever be starting C on a legit 'Chip team.

If the goal is middle of the pack continue on the Popped Retirement Tour 2014 -
....then by all means keep up the mediocrity.

[Shakril]

Let him walk. His 6 fouls a game are useless since he uses them all at once

Without him the spurs have no defense. Which would make them a worse team, than they are already.

[ragas]

If the goal is Championship, he simply is not talented enough to ever be starting C on a legit 'Chip team.

If the goal is middle of the pack continue on the Popped Retirement Tour 2014 -
....then by all means keep up the mediocrity.

Spurs fans talking about championships make me laugh. You better accept that the Big3 are gone and it will take a long long time till the Spurs may think about winning in the loaded west.

[talkspurs]

I would be right about his QO which is a little over 5 mil. I would not go up higher then 8 mil per. There are lots of other Bigs that are going to be FA this year so I think we could replace him. If he had an offense game then he would be worth more.

[Sugus]

Funny to see people ITT talking about Poeltl like he's some Wiggins-level bad player that needs to get off the team ASAP. He's not. Poeltl, first and foremost, is a very solid old school C - he's elite at pick-setting and has shown adeptness in the PnR, not to mention his enormous defensive presence and shot-blocking that can anchor a defense. I think he came into the season thinking he deserved a starting spot, but his lackadaisical and disappointing bubble play has brought him down to reality: there's been a marked shift between the tone of his first interview where he discussed his future, and this recent interview where he says he wants to stay a Spur first and foremost.

I'm not saying throw 10-15M+ at him because he's essential to the team. But at somewhere between 5 and 8M/year, he's a very good piece to have; he compliments our guard core very well (his chemistry with White is underrated - y'all don't think White leading the league in PnR efficiency is all on Derrick, right?), and at worst he's an above-average bench piece or average starter, who can be a placeholder in the period between shedding LMA and finding an actual, hopefully star-caliber, starting C. A good number of teams, to not say all of them, would be quite happy to have Jakob coming off their bench, and the Spurs aren't really in a position, nor have other prospects at C, to just let him go to some other team that makes a weak offer.

[ragas]

Actually he said the same things in the interviews before the bubble, after the bubble and yesterday. But people are interpreting his words as they want to.

[KobesAchilles]

Without him the spurs have no defense. Which would make them a worse team, than they are already.
They play him 12 minutes a game and start Forbes. Defense doesn’t mean shit for this team. Also he fouls too much to play significant minutes.

[Dverde]

10M is probably the yearly number. Probably would have said 12-13M before the pandemic. I could see him leaving with promises of playing time and a starting role.

[rankingtear]

Yeah he doesn't score much but the offense flows at a high level when he is on the court because of all little things he does ( highest offensive rating on the team ), he has similar impact to Mason Plumlee (14 million ). Market value according to Bobby Marks is 12 million before the pandemic, probably 10 million now.

[widowmaker]

Pay the man.

[widowmaker]

They play him 12 minutes a game and start Forbes. Defense doesn’t mean shit for this team. Also he fouls too much to play significant minutes.

Hey man thank god for helicopters on a foggy morning know what i mean? Lmao

[phxspurfan]

10M is probably the yearly number. Probably would have said 12-13M before the pandemic. I could see him leaving with promises of playing time and a starting role.

He could do well going to a team that will contend with the Lakers. Perhaps Celtics, Raptors or Clippers... Or even Suns

[KobesAchilles]

Hey man thank god for helicopters on a foggy morning know what i mean? Lmao
Not really

[The Truth #6]

The hate is over blown. I would much rather have him starting than LMA. Jakob plays defense and adds to the young players by not ball stopping and demanding the ball. He fouled too much in the bubble but I still think his presence was positive. If you want LMA gone, then Jakob can’t leave too. But don’t overpay him.

[duncan2150]

Something around the MLE for 3yr looks good to me.
More will Be too much imo.

[RC_Drunkford]

4 years in the NBA and didn't develop one bit. 8 million is the absolute max. I expect him to stay the same exact player for his entire career. There is no upside

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

4 years in the NBA and didn't develop one bit. 8 million is the absolute max. I expect him to stay the same exact player for his entire career. There is no upside

$8MM was the number in my head as well. More than that and Spursfan will be complaining that we overpaid.

[Drom John]

FiveThirtyEight Raptor

Rate:
21.4 Zeller
3.8 Poeltl
3.7 Mills
3.4 White
3.0 Semanic
2.2 Johnson
0.1 Aldridge
0.1 DeRozan
-0.1 Gay
-0.6 Murray
-2.2 Lyles
-3.4 Belinelli
-3.4 Forbes
-3.4 Walker
-4.4 Eubanks
-4.9 Metu
-10.2 Weatherspoon

WAR (different base line * PT)
5.3 White
4.9 Mills
3.9 Poeltl
3.3 DeRozan
2.5 Aldridge
2.0 Gay
1.9 Murray
0.8 Johnson
0.3 Lyles
0.1 Semanic
0.0 Zeller
-0.1 Metu
-0.2 Eubanks
-0.3 Belinelli
-0.3 Walker
-0.3 Weatherspoon
-0.5 Forbes

[Shakril]

The hate for him on this forum is not understandable. He plays his heart out and is defnitly one of those players who had a positive impact on the team.

His foul problems are not solely on him. When you watch the foulcalls he gets, some of them are just criminal.

Also, if you have any sense of analytics or eyetest, you would have seen, that the Spurs play much better with him on the court. He as a classic Center surrounded with young guards, works very well.
His bubble performance was not bad. He had as you said fould troubles, a problem which can be solved realtively easy.
I am not claiming he is an all star, but you are arguing that he is basicly worthless and it is easy to replace him.

Let me highlight what he does well:

Elite Screen Setter, very good in PnR situations, Rim Protector, can guard on the perimeter (for a big that is), good on the offensive board and has high efficency in scoring (which could be even higher with some training, which he does).
All Statistics that have some sort of sense in them, show that his Defense is a Big + for the Team.

So find me that kind of center in the league for less than 10 mil who is not a rooke. Good Luck. I dont know anyone who fits the Bill.

[Chinook]

So find me that kind of center in the league for less than 10 mil who is not a rooke. Good Luck. I dont know anyone who fits the Bill.

That's not hard anymore. Centers in general aren't paid that much, so they'll pretty much all be under $10 Million. I'm not going to argue over those specific skills, because honestly I don't know how hell random bigs not on the Spurs do those things. But it's also true that some do other things way better than him, like shooting and avoiding foul trouble.

There are a lot of guys like Wood, Holmes and Zubac who cost or will cost less than that and are similar players in terms of impact. And yes, you can just draft one if you get another first.

That's not to say Poeltl doesn't have value. I think the downgrade to Eubanks was made pretty clear during the bubble. But the holes in Jakob's game are such that you do have to wonder if you shouldn't use that financial flexibility elsewhere and deal with the growing pains of a different center. I would want to stick with Poeltl, but if his demands are too much (both in terms of money and role), I'm cool with exploring an alternative.

[tbdog]

Elite Screen Setter, very good in PnR situations, Rim Protector, can guard on the perimeter (for a big that is), good on the offensive board and has high efficency in scoring (which could be even higher with some training, which he does).


Decent on ball screener.
Below average off ball screener.
Good Pick n ROLLER.
Good rim protector in short minutes.
Can guard the perimeter
Good offensive rebounder
Poor defensive rebounder
Decent passer
Decent hands
Below average post player

[RC_Drunkford]

Decent on ball screener.
Below average off ball screener.
Good Pick n ROLLER.
Good rim protector in short minutes.
Can guard the perimeter
Good offensive rebounder
Poor defensive rebounder
Decent passer
Decent hands
Below average post player

Can't guard elite post players
can't shoot
can't shoot free throws