James Wiseman - 2020 NBA Draft Prospect

[timvp]

https://i.imgur.com/gDJPFG7.jpg

James Wiseman

College: Memphis
Position: C
Age: 19
Height: 7-foot-1
Weight: 245
Draft Range: 1 to 5

Why: His physical tools are breathtaking. Wiseman is 7-foot-1 with a reported 7-foot-5 wingspan. He's extremely agile and an explosive athlete. His skill level is high for his size and age -- he can dribble and shoot it at a respectable level. Oh, and the left-hander also says he models his game after David Robinson.

Why Not: Wiseman hasn't been able to shed the soft label. Only played three games in college before walking away due to NCAA violations, so there isn't much to go on when scouting him. Despite his tools, never dominated during high school or AAU. His love for the game remains a question mark.

Spurs Fit: If the Spurs draft him, they let Jakob Poeltl walk. As a rookie, Wiseman plays a backup center role behind LaMarcus Aldridge. If he shows enough promise, San Antonio then lets Aldridge walk next summer and turns the keys over Wiseman in his second year.

Spurs Comparison - Ceiling: Somewhere between a poor man's David Robinson and David Robinson

Spurs Comparison - Floor: Francisco Elson

Statistics (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/James-Wiseman/Summary/107990)
Scouting Video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2XHtqbsVqQ)
Interview (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8N5Nat7Aj4&t=66s)

[adonis827]

Similar player to Deandre Ayton I think

[Ocotillo]

https://i.imgur.com/gDJPFG7.jpg


Spurs Comparison - Floor: Francisco Elson


Swallows hard.

[Ocotillo]

To be clear, the above means giving pause.

[Chinook]

Swallows hard.


To be clear, the above means giving pause.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRL4SV3b4gY

[BatManu20]

Unless Spurs somehow luck into a Top-3 pick, it ain’t happening tbh.

[Russ]

Despite his tools, never dominated during high school or AAU.

He averaged 20 points, 11 rebounds and 3 blocks in college (albeit three games). That's pretty good for a small sample (although Okongwu might be as good for the Spurs).

[timvp]

He averaged 20 points, 11 rebounds and 3 blocks in college (albeit three games). That's pretty good for a small sample (although Okongwu might be as good for the Spurs).

Tough to take much from three college games, especially when two of those games were against low level pushovers that stood no chance.

[timvp]

He averaged 20 points, 11 rebounds and 3 blocks in college (albeit three games). That's pretty good for a small sample (although Okongwu might be as good for the Spurs).

Tough to take much from three college games, especially when two of those games were against low level pushovers that stood no chance.

[DPG21920]

Not related but I can’t stand the “let LMA walk” stuff. He’s not in sas future and has positive value. TRADE HIM. SA can’t keep being passive and awful in FA and trades. They need to optimize their assets and start modernizing the FO.

[playblair]

op stop spamming the main forum there is a sub forum for these discussions called spurs think tank

[DPG21920]

But this is who I always thought SA would like to get. Haven’t heard anything just a feeling.

[spurspl]

we aint gonna win lottery, just sayin

btw these new threats are unnecessary

[DPG21920]

Can already see Timvps next article:

“Wow - that was unexpected. In San Antonio’s first lottery in 23 years, they buck the odds and land the #1 pick. Now that we know where SA will be drafting, let’s talk about the offseason priorities as we embark on the new era of Spurs basketball. Heres were I previously discussed the top 3 prospects *insert links* and the math *insert links* on this possibility.”

[Mugen]

I think he's a no-brainer at #11. Thoughts?

[ZeusWillJudge]

Not related but I can’t stand the “let LMA walk” stuff. He’s not in sas future and has positive value. TRADE HIM. SA can’t keep being passive and awful in FA and trades. They need to optimize their assets and start modernizing the FO.


Wow, someone actually said it.

I don't see Wiseman falling to 11. Could the Spurs make a trade that included Aldridge and a draft upgrade from the other side? Or do they love him enough to let one of the youngs go to get him?

[Russ]

I think he's a no-brainer at #11. Thoughts?

The problem is, a lot of FOs think he's a no-brainer at #1.

[Chinook]

Not related but I can’t stand the “let LMA walk” stuff. He’s not in sas future and has positive value. TRADE HIM. SA can’t keep being passive and awful in FA and trades. They need to optimize their assets and start modernizing the FO.

Nah. Picks you get from trading vets don't really factor into a rebuilding process. Letting Wiseman grow under one of the best offensive bigs in recent history is more valuable than "value". For the right trade? Sure. But theoretically teams let guys with positive value go all the time. That's just part of the business, and it's definitely something the Spurs have experienced in a lot of years.

Plus, LMA may well still be in the plans. I'd actually expect for Pop to play Wiseman and LMA together if at all possible, which it should be. So he'll do that and then transition to LMA as a somewhat-overcompensated backup once Wiseman progresses to the point that he needs the spacing to play his best. If LMA wants to leave, that's obviously its own thing, but he can still be play for three or four more years, and if both sides want, that can happen in SA, even with Wiseman on the team.

[DAF86]

The lack of sample size and the probability of him being a Boban (talented physical beast that won't ever see the floor for extended minutes because opossing guards would target him relentesly on the pick and roll or switching situations) make him a huge ass question mark.

Same as Edwards, too many red flags but impossible to pass if available. And, again, same as Edwards, good thing the Spurs won't have to worry about it.

[DPG21920]

Nah. Picks you get from trading vets don't really factor into a rebuilding process. Letting Wiseman grow under one of the best offensive bigs in recent history is more valuable than "value". For the right trade? Sure. But theoretically teams let guys with positive value go all the time. That's just part of the business, and it's definitely something the Spurs have experienced in a lot of years.

Plus, LMA may well still be in the plans. I'd actually expect for Pop to play Wiseman and LMA together if at all possible, which it should be. So he'll do that and then transition to LMA as a somewhat-overcompensated backup once Wiseman progresses to the point that he needs the spacing to play his best. If LMA wants to leave, that's obviously its own thing, but he can still be play for three or four more years, and if both sides want, that can happen in SA, even with Wiseman on the team.

1) No one overrates mentors more than Spurs fans. It’s nice but not worth Mills money or letting guys walk.

I agree overall in the context of LMA having value. But my beef is the assumption LMA is still an asset and not really re signing him.

If he’s good and you don’t want to give him more money, you trade him. It does factor into rebuilding and Sa needs as much draft capital as possible even knowing their own picks have most value

So if we are saying lma is going to be very good for 3-4 years and Sa only gets one? Yeah I’d rather have another 1st to use or trade or move up

[DAF86]

Nah. Picks you get from trading vets don't really factor into a rebuilding process. Letting Wiseman grow under one of the best offensive bigs in recent history is more valuable than "value". For the right trade? Sure. But theoretically teams let guys with positive value go all the time. That's just part of the business, and it's definitely something the Spurs have experienced in a lot of years.

Plus, LMA may well still be in the plans. I'd actually expect for Pop to play Wiseman and LMA together if at all possible, which it should be. So he'll do that and then transition to LMA as a somewhat-overcompensated backup once Wiseman progresses to the point that he needs the spacing to play his best. If LMA wants to leave, that's obviously its own thing, but he can still be play for three or four more years, and if both sides want, that can happen in SA, even with Wiseman on the team.

Nobody is asking to trade Timmy from the coaching staff, tbh.

[Russ]

Tough to take much from three college games, especially when two of those games were against low level pushovers that stood no chance.

One of the games was against 14th ranked Oregon.

Wiseman had 14 points, 12 boards and a block.

Precious Achiuwa (whom many here like, including me) had 5 points.

You're right that there's an info deficit, but the little we have looks pretty good.

[Marco]

The only player worthy of the top pick.

[Chinook]

1) No one overrates mentors more than Spurs fans. It’s nice but not worth Mills money or letting guys walk.

Spurs fans value mentoring because the team saw a decades-long run of success due to the smooth transition from star to star. You don't have the longest window in sports memory by lopping off good vets the first chance you get.


I agree overall in the context of LMA having value. But my beef is the assumption LMA is still an asset and not really re signing him.

He's an asset because of his play for the team. Letting him walk is using his full value. The reason why a team could trade for LMA would be for what he can do in his last year. If that can be valuable to them, it can be valuable to SA too.


It does factor into rebuilding and Sa needs as much draft capital as possible even knowing their own picks have most value

Not really though. The most important thing is developing their picks, not just having more. That a Hinkie-type thought. The picks are almost always so much more valuable than anything a tanking team can get in a trade, to the point where it's not worth it. The team will always be able to rent out cap space if they ever want a late first or seconds or whatever.


So if we are saying lma is going to be very good for 3-4 years and Sa only gets one? Yeah I’d rather have another 1st to use or trade or move up

I wouldn't trade LMA to move up. I mean, if the Spurs did it, I'd hope it was worth it. But I'd only trade him for a prospect and a pick. Even one year of his is worth more than anything else. That changes if he wants to be traded, though. Then it's about getting whatever you can. But as it is, I'd rather the team run White, (two of Walker/Johnson/DeRozan), Aldridge, Wiseman than I would rather get some lesser value for Aldridge.

[timvp]

If the Spurs get the No. 1 pick, my guess is that they'd pick Wiseman. They'd be tempted by Edwards and Ball but the character issues will scare them away.

In Wiseman, they'd see a franchise center bigman who they can mold.

Plus, it'd feel like fate to go with the franchise big. Robinson to Duncan to Wiseman? Yeah, makes sense.

I'm far from sold on him, especially in this age where centers don't hold much value ... but I wouldn't be upset. It'd be a worthwhile gamble because the upside is there.

[DPG21920]

If the Spurs get the No. 1 pick, my guess is that they'd pick Wiseman. They'd be tempted by Edwards and Ball but the character issues will scare them away.

In Wiseman, they'd see a franchise center bigman who they can mold.

Plus, it'd feel like fate to go with the franchise big. Robinson to Duncan to Wiseman? Yeah, makes sense.

I'm far from sold on him, especially in this age where centers don't hold much value ... but I wouldn't be upset. It'd be a worthwhile gamble because the upside is there.

Trade back and still get him

[timvp]

Trade back and still get him

He could easily go 2 so that won't work, tbh.

[DPG21920]

He could easily go 2 so that won't work, tbh.

That’s fine. Oh no you miss out on him and get LaMelo or Toppin instead and another 1st.

[DPG21920]

Spurs fans value mentoring because the team saw a decades-long run of success due to the smooth transition from star to star. You don't have the longest window in sports memory by lopping off good vets the first chance you get.



He's an asset because of his play for the team. Letting him walk is using his full value. The reason why a team could trade for LMA would be for what he can do in his last year. If that can be valuable to them, it can be valuable to SA too.



Not really though. The most important thing is developing their picks, not just having more. That a Hinkie-type thought. The picks are almost always so much more valuable than anything a tanking team can get in a trade, to the point where it's not worth it. The team will always be able to rent out cap space if they ever want a late first or seconds or whatever.



I wouldn't trade LMA to move up. I mean, if the Spurs did it, I'd hope it was worth it. But I'd only trade him for a prospect and a pick. Even one year of his is worth more than anything else. That changes if he wants to be traded, though. Then it's about getting whatever you can. But as it is, I'd rather the team run White, (two of Walker/Johnson/DeRozan), Aldridge, Wiseman than I would rather get some lesser value for Aldridge.

Spurs weren’t rebuilding. It’s a different time. The best front offices don’t leave any meat on the bone. Spurs cant afford to either. Pick a direction and be decisive.

Also I meant move up in future drafts. Like get a 1st for LMA now since he’s not on team anyways after one year, then with your own lottery pick + pick from LMA you can get the guy(s) you want next draft

[Thomas82]

But this is who I always thought SA would like to get. Haven’t heard anything just a feeling.

This is definitely who I want us to get.

[mo7888]

Trading Aldridge to move up.... well, it depends on how far you're moving up...are we taking salary back? There are alot of variables. If we are moving up 3 or 4 spots then I'd say no...if it gets you into the top 5 and you don't take back longterm salary then do it.

[Dancelot]

I imagine he’ll be warriors bound if they don’t trade the pick.

[Killakobe81]

If the Spurs get the No. 1 pick, my guess is that they'd pick Wiseman. They'd be tempted by Edwards and Ball but the character issues will scare them away.

In Wiseman, they'd see a franchise center bigman who they can mold.

Plus, it'd feel like fate to go with the franchise big. Robinson to Duncan to Wiseman? Yeah, makes sense.

I'm far from sold on him, especially in this age where centers don't hold much value ... but I wouldn't be upset. It'd be a worthwhile gamble because the upside is there.

I know players evolve over time but Sam Mitchell say he is more athletic than David Robinson...is that true? I know it was the 90s but the Admiral was one of the best size/speed/muscle athletes i ever seen maybe only Lebron and maybe prime shawn Kemp is in that convo...and bron is not a true big.

[Thomas82]

I'm probably the only one, and that's cool, but I'm still holding out hope that we somehow end up with this kid on draft day.

[DPG21920]

Bump. I think if you hear about SA being aggressive and/or focusing on bigs this is the target FWIW

[Thomas82]

Bump. I think if you hear about SA being aggressive and/or focusing on bigs this is the target FWIW

I'm all for it. I would also be happy with Jalen Smith.

[Thomas82]

A short article on James Wiseman and Anthony Edwards' workouts with the Warriors.

https://amicohoopsnews.com/wiseman-edwards-beasts-warriors/?fbclid=IwAR3S8NZBG2r7DHqw4rOHdIs4lzr0mIZKaTldfOTv-EuRsALowReWb0nzJX0

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

He might be the one guy with the potential to change the downward trajectory the team is on right now.

[Sugus]

A short article on James Wiseman and Anthony Edwards' workouts with the Warriors.

https://amicohoopsnews.com/wiseman-edwards-beasts-warriors/?fbclid=IwAR3S8NZBG2r7DHqw4rOHdIs4lzr0mIZKaTldfOTv-EuRsALowReWb0nzJX0

Posted by Sam Amico, largely believed to be unreliable around the league. I'd trust the ATL insider more than I would this guy, and that's saying a lot...

Having said that, I'm still holding out hope the Spurs end up with Wiseman on draft night. We need a true franchise player and Wiseman would compliment our young core extremely well.

[daslicer]

If Wiseman is a can't miss prospect then it's hard for me to imagine the Warriors would give up a player that has the potential to be a superstar player.

[Dejounte]

Posted by Sam Amico, largely believed to be unreliable around the league. I'd trust the ATL insider more than I would this guy, and that's saying a lot...

Having said that, I'm still holding out hope the Spurs end up with Wiseman on draft night. We need a true franchise player and Wiseman would compliment our young core extremely well.

Correct. Sam Amick is the reliable one.

[Dejounte]

If Wiseman is a can't miss prospect then it's hard for me to imagine the Warriors would give up a player that has the potential to be a superstar player.

Right. The Warriors aren't some third rate organization. They found Klay, Draymond, and Curry. They aren't passing up on Wiseman if he's as good as advertised. If they do pass up on him, then it says more about Wiseman than it does about the Warriors.

[exstatic]

If Wiseman is a can't miss prospect then it's hard for me to imagine the Warriors would give up a player that has the potential to be a superstar player.

Their timeframe is NOW. Wiseman might be special, but it likely won’t be for 3 years. That’s too late for them. It’s also not a pure basketball decision. They’re in real tax trouble, and need to off load salary, and Wiggins is the one, but no one will do that for cheap.

[Thomas82]

I'm still holding out hope the Spurs end up with Wiseman on draft night. We need a true franchise player and Wiseman would compliment our young core extremely well.

That makes 2 of us!!


Their timeframe is NOW. Wiseman might be special, but it likely won’t be for 3 years. That’s too late for them. It’s also not a pure basketball decision. They’re in real tax trouble, and need to off load salary, and Wiggins is the one, but no one will do that for cheap.

I see no lies in this post.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Their timeframe is NOW. Wiseman might be special, but it likely won’t be for 3 years. That’s too late for them. It’s also not a pure basketball decision. They’re in real tax trouble, and need to off load salary, and Wiggins is the one, but no one will do that for cheap.

Pull the f'n trigger Pop!

[Dejounte]

Their timeframe is NOW. Wiseman might be special, but it likely won’t be for 3 years. That’s too late for them. It’s also not a pure basketball decision. They’re in real tax trouble, and need to off load salary, and Wiggins is the one, but no one will do that for cheap.

Rookies or sophomores can contribute to championships. See Tyler Herro. If he's as good as advertised, they won't pass up on him. No one is going to pass up on Timmy D or David Robinson if theyre available. If a generational player is there, you make ways to accommodate that. Not the other way around.

[Dejounte]

Their timeframe is NOW. Wiseman might be special, but it likely won’t be for 3 years. That’s too late for them. It’s also not a pure basketball decision. They’re in real tax trouble, and need to off load salary, and Wiggins is the one, but no one will do that for cheap.

If they end up drafting Avdija over Wiseman, what does that say to you? They wouldn't trade Wiggins in that scenario.

[talkspurs]

If they end up drafting Avdija over Wiseman, what does that say to you? They wouldn't trade Wiggins in that scenario.

They may already have a plan in place to trade him or they could not find anyone with a deal they liked. They also did get a first and a second for taking on his contract. They also did it to help get them under the lux tax for last year. they got rid of Russel but some did not like his contract. Young yes but not worth the max contract that he got.

[cool cat]

Rookies or sophomores can contribute to championships. See TIM DUNCAN. If he's as good as advertised, they won't pass up on him. No one is going to pass up on Timmy D or David Robinson if theyre available. If a generational player is there, you make ways to accommodate that. Not the other way around.

*Fixed

[exstatic]

Rookies or sophomores can contribute to championships. See Tyler Herro. If he's as good as advertised, they won't pass up on him. No one is going to pass up on Timmy D or David Robinson if theyre available. If a generational player is there, you make ways to accommodate that. Not the other way around.

Tyler Hero didn’t help win a Championship. Tim was plugged into a team that had already been to the WCFs, and there will never be another HOF player ready to dominate from year 1. There isn’t a sure fire generational player, but if the Spurs do this, they feel that there is a possible one.

[Dejounte]

Tyler Hero didn’t help win a Championship. Tim was plugged into a team that had already been to the WCFs, and there will never be another HOF player ready to dominate from year 1. There isn’t a sure fire generational player, but if the Spurs do this, they feel that there is a possible one.

I'm speaking from the Warriors perspective.

[exstatic]

If they end up drafting Avdija over Wiseman, what does that say to you? They wouldn't trade Wiggins in that scenario.

You keep looking at this as a purely on the court decision, but it isn’t. They are in tax hell. Their bill will be $3.50 for every dollar over. Their payroll for next year is $148M. For the following year, it’s $158M. Those numbers don’t include pick #2. The salary for that pick is $9M, but the cost is $9M+3.5*$9M, or $40m...in year one. Even taking LMAs salary back, they save money next year, and save huge money the year after.

[exstatic]

I'm speaking from the Warriors perspective.

I simply addressed each of your points.

[rankingtear]

Wiseman is closer to Jaxson Hayes than he is to Deandre Ayton. Still extremely raw. He could be all defensive type center but I doubt he can anchor an offense, poor passer and non existent footwork in the paint. Don't rely on the games he played in college three of those are against very bad teams and the only 1 good team he faced he got into foul trouble and barely scored until garbage time.

[PhantomDashCam]

Wiseman is closer to Jaxson Hayes than he is to Deandre Ayton. Still extremely raw. He could be all defensive type center but I doubt he can anchor an offense, poor passer and non existent footwork in the paint. Don't rely on the games he played in college three of those are against very bad teams and the only 1 good team he faced he got into foul trouble and barely scored until garbage time.

There in lies the intrigue. Scouts are split on him. I'm in the believer camp. If he had played more games in college, I don't think there would even be trade conversations about him. He just wouldn't be available.
Now he may not pan out. However, whenever are you going to even have the remote chance to grab somebody with his profile - Athletic, Intelligent (Supposed over 4.0 GPA), Driven - without winning the lottery?
His floor may be Deandre Jordan, with decent FT %. Even so, that is something the current Spurs have never had and is extremely valuable. And again, that may just be his floor.

[bluebellmaniac]

There in lies the intrigue. Scouts are split on him. I'm in the believer camp. If he had played more games in college, I don't think there would even be trade conversations about him. He just wouldn't be available.
Now he may not pan out. However, whenever are you going to even have the remote chance to grab somebody with his profile - Athletic, Intelligent (Supposed over 4.0 GPA), Driven - without winning the lottery?
His floor may be Deandre Jordan, with decent FT %. Even so, that is something the Spurs have never had and is extremely valuable. And again, that may just be his floor.

Something we've never had? We've had a guy named Tim Duncan and a guy named David Robinson.

[PhantomDashCam]

Something we've never had? We've had a guy named Tim Duncan and a guy named David Robinson.
My apologies. Had meant to type - current Spurs have had. Meant no disrespect to TD or 5-0.

[Sugus]

There in lies the intrigue. Scouts are split on him. I'm in the believer camp. If he had played more games in college, I don't think there would even be trade conversations about him. He just wouldn't be available.
Now he may not pan out. However, whenever are you going to even have the remote chance to grab somebody with his profile - Athletic, Intelligent (Supposed over 4.0 GPA), Driven - without winning the lottery?
His floor may be Deandre Jordan, with decent FT %. Even so, that is something the current Spurs have never had and is extremely valuable. And again, that may just be his floor.

I agree, I'm on the believer camp too. At the very least, I think that out of all the prospects on this year's top crop of draft picks, Wiseman is the one whose question marks are the least worrying. The fact that he barely played benefits a team that wants to trade up, since he hasn't truly shown his value. You don't "lose" the athletic ability, and physical prowess, just because you haven't been playing college basketball. I've seen him training, and would love for the Spurs to make a move for him. We need someone with his tools on this team so badly...

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

I'm also in the Wiseman believer group. Lol.

I think barring injuries at worse he would be an athletic rim running, rim protector and rebounder who actually isn't awful at shooting free throws. Damn near every team (the teams that don't need it already have a guy) needs at least one of those types of players. That's his floor!! Lol.

He actually showed in high school, practice videos and the couple of NCAA games he played in that he might have a 15 foot jumper also.

I know the odds of drafting him or Okongwu are low for us but if we could get one of those guys that would be nice.

[cd021]

His floor seems to be a better DeAndre Jordan and his ceiling is probably peak Dwight but much bigger and a better free throw shooter- that's probably a 20 ppg, 10 rpg, 3 bpg type of center.

[TD 21]

His peak is probably more so Ayton (who hasn't reached his obviously, but probably tops out as an All-Star candidate) than Howard.

Obviously the game has changed a lot in the past decade, but his peak was top 5 (and briefly consensus 2nd best) player.

Either way, he wouldn't solve the Spurs' need for an offensive centerpiece.

[Thomas82]

The more buzz I keep hearing about this kid potentially being a Spur, the more I want it to happen. I saw earlier today that NBADraft.net has him coming to us at 11. With that being said, I know mock drafts are almost never accurate, and I know Wiseman won't make it past #3.

[Uriel]

The more buzz I keep hearing about this kid potentially being a Spur, the more I want it to happen. I saw earlier today that NBADraft.net has him coming to us at 11. With that being said, I know mock drafts are almost never accurate, and I know Wiseman won't make it past #3.
I saw that too. Any reason why? I can’t imagine him falling outside the top 5, let alone #11.

[Thomas82]

I saw that too. Any reason why? I can’t imagine him falling outside the top 5, let alone #11.

The only reason I can think of for some people believing he'll fall outside the top 5 is because of his small sample size, having played only 3 games in college and it being a whole year since the last time he played. Even with that being the case, his potential alone will be enough to keep him in the top 5.

[Thomas82]

I appears that Minnesota might ignore his wishes and take him anyway.

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2020/11/08/rumor-minnesota-leaning-toward-taking-james-wiseman-with-no-1-pick/

[ZeusWillJudge]

Something we've never had? We've had a guy named Tim Duncan and a guy named David Robinson.


Those guys were no DeAndre Jordans.

[mo7888]

It's hard for me to see Minnesota taking Wiseman unless they are planning on moving KAT. I don't think they will do that so I think this is just a smokescreen.

[Dejounte]

The Lakers play twin towers all the time. And KAT shoots as much 3s as Davis, if not more. In my opinion, they should draft Wiseman.

[Sugus]

The Lakers play twin towers all the time. And KAT shoots as much 3s as Davis, if not more. In my opinion, they should draft Wiseman.

I don't really see the fit being there to play Wiseman and KAT on the court at the same time. AD makes it work due to his huge versatility and defensive presence, where even as a 4 he's still effective and can hang around on the perimeter while McGee or Howard take the more traditional, banging-on-the-post or rebounding big man roles. But KAT is an awful defender, even as a 5, and taking him out to the perimeter to guard 4's might not work out nearly as well. I don't see Wiseman playing the 4 either. So while yes, KAT shoots a lot of 3's (definitely more than AD, both in FGA and in %, he's probably the best shooting big man in the game right now despite his flaws), I can't see him and Wiseman working out at all on the court, especially given the rest of Minny's roster.

Having said that, I don't disagree that Minny might do well to draft Wiseman. Just not to keep him - trade him to Charlotte on draft night, for example, or any other team that's desperate for him. Ironically, it seems Wiseman's low amount of games played and unknown-ness are doing him more good than bad, in this mediocre top draft class.

[The Truth #6]

Interesting review.

https://www.thestepien.com/2020/01/24/james-wiseman-scouting-report/

[ZeusWillJudge]

Interesting review.

https://www.thestepien.com/2020/01/24/james-wiseman-scouting-report/


That report is almost a year old, and it paints a terrible picture of Wiseman. And a lot of it is just facts. In two years of Nike EYBL, I think Wiseman shot 60% from the FT line, which is a real problem for a guy who has to live in the box at this point in his development. He has virtually no shooting range right now. Anybody who has been in basketball as long as he has will get one to drop now and then, but if he puts one up from outside about 5 feet, you can pretty much count on it not going in.

Bottom line, people keep saying that old school centers are no longer desirable, and when you look at what he actually does right now he's about as old school as it gets. I know he drops out and runs, but he's not going to get by with much of that shit in the NBA. I still think he's going fairly high, just on upside. But if he doesn't develop some range, he will have to be on just the right team to get value from that pick.

[The Truth #6]

That report is almost a year old, and it paints a terrible picture of Wiseman. And a lot of it is just facts. In two years of Nike EYBL, I think Wiseman shot 60% from the FT line, which is a real problem for a guy who has to live in the box at this point in his development. He has virtually no shooting range right now. Anybody who has been in basketball as long as he has will get one to drop now and then, but if he puts one up from outside about 5 feet, you can pretty much count on it not going in.

Bottom line, people keep saying that old school centers are no longer desirable, and when you look at what he actually does right now he's about as old school as it gets. I know he drops out and runs, but he's not going to get by with much of that shit in the NBA. I still think he's going fairly high, just on upside. But if he doesn't develop some range, he will have to be on just the right team to get value from that pick.

Good points. Granted this was just one review, but I generally trust their site, and it paints a terrible picture as you say. Taking on Wiggins to move up to draft Wiseman sounds like a bad idea. If there was someone else at #2 that they really coveted, then that might be more useful. But just in writing that, I struggle to see the point of taking on expensive garbage for a huge longshot. This draft is about depth. As counterintuitive as it sounds, I'd rather trade LMA to get additional later picks if it can be done without taking on an awful contract.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Good points. Granted this was just one review, but I generally trust their site, and it paints a terrible picture as you say. Taking on Wiggins to move up to draft Wiseman sounds like a bad idea. If there was someone else at #2 that they really coveted, then that might be more useful. But just in writing that, I struggle to see the point of taking on expensive garbage for a huge longshot. This draft is about depth. As counterintuitive as it sounds, I'd rather trade LMA to get additional later picks if it can be done without taking on an awful contract.



Stepien, in general, has some pretty good articles and analysis. It's still different people, and some are better than others. The one who wrote that article is a pretty smart guy and a law school grad, so he's not just some bonehead with a keyboard. If you click on his name, you'll see his articles on some other guys like Desmond Bane, Killian Tillie, etc. Some of the stuff he said about Wiseman is pretty hard to argue with. He only played a few college games, but he was pretty well known from the Nike youth league.

I don't hate Wiggins as much as a lot of people here do, but his contract is toxic, and I would really like to see the Spurs finally get out of cap hell. Taking on that contract isn't a good way to accomplish that. I don't hate Wiseman, but I would hate to see the Spurs take on Wiggins' contract to get him.

[R. DeMurre]

I rewatched a bunch of Wiseman videos last night and the thing that stood out to me most was his rebounding, especially in traffic. He routinely uses that wingspan to grab rebounds that seem far outside of his proximity, reaching over even opponents with good position in the paint to pull them in. That's always a nice skill, but especially valuable now in the three point shooting era.

It seems there is a bit of Scouting Fatigue going on recently on quite a few websites I've look at. Whereas I saw lots of David Robinson and Kevin Garnett comps earlier, now there's more DeAndre Jordan and Hassan Whiteside. It would make sense if there were new games to look at, but there aren't. But to be honest, Hassan Whiteside with a good attitude and a higher BB IQ would be pretty imposing. In almost every interview I've seen, Wiseman talks about defense-- he brings it up, which is nice. I've watched multiple Obi Toppin interviews where he never mentions defense once, and only addresses it when specifically asked. I find that disturbing, considering every scouting report on him labels him a poor defender.

[PhantomDashCam]

Good points. Granted this was just one review, but I generally trust their site, and it paints a terrible picture as you say. Taking on Wiggins to move up to draft Wiseman sounds like a bad idea. If there was someone else at #2 that they really coveted, then that might be more useful. But just in writing that, I struggle to see the point of taking on expensive garbage for a huge longshot. This draft is about depth. As counterintuitive as it sounds, I'd rather trade LMA to get additional later picks if it can be done without taking on an awful contract.

I concur, in the fact being if you view the risk is too high, the entry fee too steep - avoid at all costs.
But if you’re in the believer camp, you’re betting on a franchise changing talent who bottoms out as a high level starter in an undervalued position; sacrificing financial flexibility without unloading future draft assets.

[The Truth #6]

I concur, in the fact being if you view the risk is too high, the entry fee too steep - avoid at all costs.
But if you’re in the believer camp, you’re betting on a franchise changing talent who bottoms out as a high level starter in an undervalued position; sacrificing financial flexibility without unloading future draft assets.

It's definitely a polarizing situation, because getting a #2 pick sounds amazing in a vacuum. I'd rather have 3 picks between 11-20 then just the #2. I'd love to get the bpa at 11 and then Tyler Bey and Tyrese Maxey. Obviously, that's too many players to handle in one year, not to mention whoever we would get back in a trade, but I think the Spurs have an opportunity with potential trades with both LMA and DD and I would love for them to maximize it. We aren't getting any star back with those potential trades (unless you consider Wiggins) and so I think the Spurs need to accept the reality of this draft and what opportunities we have as well as what path lies ahead.

[exstatic]

If the Spurs make the trade for Wiggins and #2, it’s because they’re very bullish on someone who’s likely to be there. The Spurs aren’t known for taking huge risks, or doing dumb stuff with first rounders that they pick for themselves.

[The Truth #6]

If the Spurs make the trade for Wiggins and #2, it’s because they’re very bullish on someone who’s likely to be there. The Spurs aren’t known for taking huge risks, or doing dumb stuff with first rounders that they pick for themselves.

What's also interesting to me is that the Young Holts seem to be onboard with taking back salary if these trade rumors are to be believed. On the other hand, the Spurs are accustomed to such a high degree of smoke and mirrors on draft day that these trade rumors (as they often are with regarding the Spurs) are either not legitimate or not done sincerely.

[lmbebo]

If the Spurs make the trade for Wiggins and #2, it’s because they’re very bullish on someone who’s likely to be there. The Spurs aren’t known for taking huge risks, or doing dumb stuff with first rounders that they pick for themselves.

All but 1 player will be there at #2.....

[Sugus]

That report is almost a year old, and it paints a terrible picture of Wiseman. And a lot of it is just facts. In two years of Nike EYBL, I think Wiseman shot 60% from the FT line, which is a real problem for a guy who has to live in the box at this point in his development. He has virtually no shooting range right now. Anybody who has been in basketball as long as he has will get one to drop now and then, but if he puts one up from outside about 5 feet, you can pretty much count on it not going in.

Bottom line, people keep saying that old school centers are no longer desirable, and when you look at what he actually does right now he's about as old school as it gets. I know he drops out and runs, but he's not going to get by with much of that shit in the NBA. I still think he's going fairly high, just on upside. But if he doesn't develop some range, he will have to be on just the right team to get value from that pick.

It's a good report, for sure, but I didn't think it painted as bleak of a picture as you took from it. It highlights how raw Wiseman is, and the tools that could make him a significant impact player. I don't think anyone is expecting him to cross people off the dribble or be nailing 3 pointers like KAT does - he's traditional in that sense. But his athleticism makes him much more valuable than Poeltl-style "traditional" centers, and both his offensive and defensive rebounding are also extremely likely to translate, and be an asset in this era of long-distance bombing. I definitely agree with other commenters that it's a Believers Vs Non Believers thing right now, with so many question marks surrounding Wiseman, especially in whether he's grown/evolved his game in the time off college/pandemic, and what it looks like now.

It's a major risk drafting him, to be sure. But it's also the kind of move that could make the Spurs actual contenders in the near future, instead of endlessly tanking or mediocrity. I'd much rather they try, and fail (we can always tank next season and the next one - even having traded for Wiseman), than shy away from a trade just to preserve useless cap space for '21, or worse, trade down and get a team full of role-players with nobody to step up and be "the guy" (maybe Keldon could develop into that role; we don't know for now, and either way it won't be enough with just him).

E: Also, if there's one team that can get value out of Wiseman, it's the Spurs for sure. The cliché of Timmy training every big man the Spurs pick into a franchise player is overblown, but there's truth to it. The fact that Wiseman needs to add post moves, clean up footwork, be more consistent in his shooting form, learn fade aways and midrange moves... Screams Spurs pick to me.

[buttsR4rebounding]

All but 1 player will be there at #2.....

You just don’t get insight like this anywhere else.

[ZeusWillJudge]

It's a good report, for sure, but I didn't think it painted as bleak of a picture as you took from it.


I'm just talking here - I'm really not in the mood to fight with anyone. I had read that report shortly after it was posted, and I'll tell you what I saw in that sort of synopsis section at the top. (I had to re-type it since it was an image file - I got most of the words.) If you look, even the positive things are sort of ass-backwards negatives. Like where it says he's not a shooter right now - but could become one. That last part didn't really distract me from the "not a shooter" part.

Not a shooter right now, but there is reason to buy shot due to form. Not a good passer, clogs paint and has poor spacing feel (doesn’tmove out to open up passing lanes), questionable decision maker (andturnover prone in past with poor shot selection in HS/AAU)… gazellein straight line and has vertical pop when he has time to load… butit takes him time to load. … Questionable shot selection going backto EYBL – need to keep him in the box until he is able to develop. Average hands – misses contested rebounds and passes. Not aself-creator.


That may not all be strictly accurate, but you can't get around the shooting. I've seen a chart and it's bleak. But assume it's fairly accurate - if you put it all together, he's got to develop some range or he's pretty one-dimensional. And being one-dimensional is a big hill to climb in the New NBA. I'm sure he could learn, but we can say that about nearly all of them until they've been there at least a few years. So like I said - I might throw the #2 pick at him, but I wouldn't throw the #2 pick PLUS Wiggins' terrible contract at him.

I'm really getting anxious to see how the actual FO's rate some of these guys.

[Dejounte]

I'm just talking here - I'm really not in the mood to fight with anyone. I had read that report shortly after it was posted, and I'll tell you what I saw in that sort of synopsis section at the top. (I had to re-type it since it was an image file - I got most of the words.) If you look, even the positive things are sort of ass-backwards negatives. Like where it says he's not a shooter right now - but could become one. That last part didn't really distract me from the "not a shooter" part.

Not a shooter right now, but there is reason to buy shot due to form. Not a good passer, clogs paint and has poor spacing feel (doesn’tmove out to open up passing lanes), questionable decision maker (andturnover prone in past with poor shot selection in HS/AAU)… gazellein straight line and has vertical pop when he has time to load… butit takes him time to load. … Questionable shot selection going backto EYBL – need to keep him in the box until he is able to develop. Average hands – misses contested rebounds and passes. Not aself-creator.


That may not all be strictly accurate, but you can't get around the shooting. I've seen a chart and it's bleak. But assume it's fairly accurate - if you put it all together, he's got to develop some range or he's pretty one-dimensional. And being one-dimensional is a big hill to climb in the New NBA. I'm sure he could learn, but we can say that about nearly all of them until they've been there at least a few years. So like I said - I might throw the #2 pick at him, but I wouldn't throw the #2 pick PLUS Wiggins' terrible contract at him.

I'm really getting anxious to see how the actual FO's rate some of these guys.

We aren't going to see that lol.

I wish.

My proudest moment would be is if Jalen Smith + Mason Jones were on top of their draft board too.

[The Truth #6]

It's a good report, for sure, but I didn't think it painted as bleak of a picture as you took from it. It highlights how raw Wiseman is, and the tools that could make him a significant impact player. I don't think anyone is expecting him to cross people off the dribble or be nailing 3 pointers like KAT does - he's traditional in that sense. But his athleticism makes him much more valuable than Poeltl-style "traditional" centers, and both his offensive and defensive rebounding are also extremely likely to translate, and be an asset in this era of long-distance bombing. I definitely agree with other commenters that it's a Believers Vs Non Believers thing right now, with so many question marks surrounding Wiseman, especially in whether he's grown/evolved his game in the time off college/pandemic, and what it looks like now.

It's a major risk drafting him, to be sure. But it's also the kind of move that could make the Spurs actual contenders in the near future, instead of endlessly tanking or mediocrity. I'd much rather they try, and fail (we can always tank next season and the next one - even having traded for Wiseman), than shy away from a trade just to preserve useless cap space for '21, or worse, trade down and get a team full of role-players with nobody to step up and be "the guy" (maybe Keldon could develop into that role; we don't know for now, and either way it won't be enough with just him).

E: Also, if there's one team that can get value out of Wiseman, it's the Spurs for sure. The cliché of Timmy training every big man the Spurs pick into a franchise player is overblown, but there's truth to it. The fact that Wiseman needs to add post moves, clean up footwork, be more consistent in his shooting form, learn fade aways and midrange moves... Screams Spurs pick to me.

I know it is counter-intuitive to want to trade down, but your example of Keldon somewhat reinforces my point: good players sometimes drop way too far. And my other point: some players who have size get overhyped and picked way too high. I think Tyrese has some potential to be a star. Not a lot, but who does in this draft, and that is just one example, and, granted, my subjective opinion. I would rather take multiple attempts at finding talent then going all in on a guy that I don't think will be a star and will take too much time to develop, at which point he will probably be leaving anyway.

[Dejounte]

I know it is counter-intuitive to want to trade down, but you're example of Keldon somewhat reinforces my point: good players sometimes drop way too far. And my other point: some players who have size get overhyped and picked way too high. I think Tyrese has some potential to be a star. Not a lot, but who does in this draft, and that is just one example, and, granted, my subjective opinion. I would rather take multiple attempts at finding talent then going all in on a guy that I don't think will be a star and will take too much time to develop, at which point he will probably be leaving anyway.

Here's the key thing people forget:

There wasn't a tournament.

For all we know, a couple of these players would have blown up in that tournament.

Leave it to the great organizations who would have predicted it and will draft them by draft night.

Some of the players in the teens could very well be top 10 if there was a college tournament.

ADVANTAGE: SPURS

[The Truth #6]

Here's the key thing people forget:

There wasn't a tournament.

For all we know, a couple of these players would have blown up in that tournament.

Leave it to the great organizations who would have predicted it and will draft them by draft night.

Some of the players in the teens could very well be top 10 if there was a college tournament.

ADVANTAGE: SPURS

Yes!

[Sugus]

I'm just talking here - I'm really not in the mood to fight with anyone. I had read that report shortly after it was posted, and I'll tell you what I saw in that sort of synopsis section at the top. (I had to re-type it since it was an image file - I got most of the words.) If you look, even the positive things are sort of ass-backwards negatives. Like where it says he's not a shooter right now - but could become one. That last part didn't really distract me from the "not a shooter" part.

Not a shooter right now, but there is reason to buy shot due to form. Not a good passer, clogs paint and has poor spacing feel (doesn’tmove out to open up passing lanes), questionable decision maker (andturnover prone in past with poor shot selection in HS/AAU)… gazellein straight line and has vertical pop when he has time to load… butit takes him time to load. … Questionable shot selection going backto EYBL – need to keep him in the box until he is able to develop. Average hands – misses contested rebounds and passes. Not aself-creator.


That may not all be strictly accurate, but you can't get around the shooting. I've seen a chart and it's bleak. But assume it's fairly accurate - if you put it all together, he's got to develop some range or he's pretty one-dimensional. And being one-dimensional is a big hill to climb in the New NBA. I'm sure he could learn, but we can say that about nearly all of them until they've been there at least a few years. So like I said - I might throw the #2 pick at him, but I wouldn't throw the #2 pick PLUS Wiggins' terrible contract at him.

I'm really getting anxious to see how the actual FO's rate some of these guys.

Haha, I wasn't picking a fight. I get the negatives and question marks, just think that they aren't set in stone (and they evaluate a Wiseman that's been through a year+ of lone development, for better or worse). The shooting is a big IF, but I think it's fair to say that he's not a shooter right now, but could turn into one. There's a major distinction, IMO, between players that have to fix their shot, relearn it, then get confidence in it, and guys who have a perfectly fine shot but don't take many of them. From the report at least, it seems like Wiseman is the latter, and with the more-than-obvious emphasis that the modern NBA has on 3pt shooting, I can't see Wiseman not working into at least a serviceable shot. I also tend to agree with the article, in the sense that beyond a good CnS shot, Wiseman doesn't really "need" to be an outright shooter to succeed - that is, if his inside presence and rebounding stack up to measure. Not every team has to be a Pocket Rockettes-style offense where everyone and their momma is a shooter. It's a plus, not a must, IF he develops as he should in other facets of the game.

It's funny to think about big men in the new NBA though. I was gonna say, he could develop a midrange, but is that even worth it now? Beyond fade-aways or pump fake then passing out of doubles, I can't say I'd want Wiseman shooting midrange pullup J's. It's all 3-or-die these days. More of a reflection of the modern league than Wiseman as a prospect, tbh.

[Sugus]

I know it is counter-intuitive to want to trade down, but your example of Keldon somewhat reinforces my point: good players sometimes drop way too far. And my other point: some players who have size get overhyped and picked way too high. I think Tyrese has some potential to be a star. Not a lot, but who does in this draft, and that is just one example, and, granted, my subjective opinion. I would rather take multiple attempts at finding talent then going all in on a guy that I don't think will be a star and will take too much time to develop, at which point he will probably be leaving anyway.

I see your point, agree with it, and say it: I want to have my cake, and eat it too. My ideal scenario is that the Spurs manage to turn LMA into #2 (and Wiggins...), AND they also manage to turn DeRozan into additional FRPs, even if they're low-20's. Even just one FRP would be plenty given the Spurs' drafting history. I'm just saying, if given the two options between going all-out to trade up and get a star, or trade down to get multiple lower picks, I think I'd still pick trading up, just because of the increased chances of stardom-struck talents. My love for Keldon is ever-growing, but we can't assume every pick will turn out like that, and between the option of multiple Dejounte-like role players, and Wiseman-like intriguing talents, I'd rather have the latter. It's certainly personal opinion, and this is certainly not the best draft to be trading up in, but at the same time, a top lottery pick will probably never be as cheap as it would be this year. I say take that chance and live with the results, tbh.

[The Truth #6]

I see your point, agree with it, and say it: I want to have my cake, and eat it too. My ideal scenario is that the Spurs manage to turn LMA into #2 (and Wiggins...), AND they also manage to turn DeRozan into additional FRPs, even if they're low-20's. Even just one FRP would be plenty given the Spurs' drafting history. I'm just saying, if given the two options between going all-out to trade up and get a star, or trade down to get multiple lower picks, I think I'd still pick trading up, just because of the increased chances of stardom-struck talents. My love for Keldon is ever-growing, but we can't assume every pick will turn out like that, and between the option of multiple Dejounte-like role players, and Wiseman-like intriguing talents, I'd rather have the latter. It's certainly personal opinion, and this is certainly not the best draft to be trading up in, but at the same time, a top lottery pick will probably never be as cheap as it would be this year. I say take that chance and live with the results, tbh.

I get it. IF they see that top talent, then yes. I don’t see it but I’m not employed by an NBA front office, either.

And I love the best of both worlds approach. 👍

[ZeusWillJudge]

I'm really getting anxious to see how the actual FO's rate some of these guys.


We aren't going to see that lol.

I wish.

My proudest moment would be is if Jalen Smith + Mason Jones were on top of their draft board too.


No, no... I mean where they actually get drafted. That's pretty much where the rubber meets the road. Yeah I'd like to get a peek at their personal big boards, but of course nobody's doing that.


If you nail both of the Spurs' picks, I'll have a plaque made and you can used it as your avatar pic.

[Thomas82]

I see your point, agree with it, and say it: I want to have my cake, and eat it too. My ideal scenario is that the Spurs manage to turn LMA into #2 (and Wiggins...), AND they also manage to turn DeRozan into additional FRPs, even if they're low-20's. Even just one FRP would be plenty given the Spurs' drafting history. I'm just saying, if given the two options between going all-out to trade up and get a star, or trade down to get multiple lower picks, I think I'd still pick trading up, just because of the increased chances of stardom-struck talents. My love for Keldon is ever-growing, but we can't assume every pick will turn out like that, and between the option of multiple Dejounte-like role players, and Wiseman-like intriguing talents, I'd rather have the latter. It's certainly personal opinion, and this is certainly not the best draft to be trading up in, but at the same time, a top lottery pick will probably never be as cheap as it would be this year. I say take that chance and live with the results, tbh.

If we get an additional first round pick, I would want Jalen Smith.

[John B]

Spurs are keeping Aldridge and Demar and picking another 6'5" guard at 11. I'm tired of hoping and getting disappointed.

[daslicer]

Spurs are keeping Aldridge and Demar and picking another 6'5" guard at 11. I'm tired of hoping and getting disappointed.

You are being too generous at 6'5 more like a 6'3 guard.

[The Truth #6]

s
You are being too generous at 6'5 more like a 6'3 guard.

Tyrese Maxey! :lol

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/N_Magaro/status/1326373557488791557?s=19

Don't show Thomas82 this... He will blow a load like this

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/f4/ac/c1/f4acc1f1584307504e4ef8b83838d49a--south-park-funny-comments.jpg

[Sugus]

https://twitter.com/N_Magaro/status/1326373557488791557?s=19

Don't show Thomas82 this... He will blow a load like this

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/f4/ac/c1/f4acc1f1584307504e4ef8b83838d49a--south-park-funny-comments.jpg

Make it happen, Spurs :hungry: :cheer

[SpurPadre]

I mentioned this in another thread but it's worth nentioning here that earlier this year, Wiseman said he modeled his game after DA ADMIRAL. https://news4sanantonio.com/sports/s...a-spurs-legend

"So I am more like a back-in-the-day guy. So I'll say David Robinson for sure."

If PATFO is high on him, I hope they do whatever it takes to get him. They might not want to be a lottery team again, especially as Pop's career winds down.

[Thomas82]

https://twitter.com/N_Magaro/status/1326373557488791557?s=19

Don't show Thomas82 this... He will blow a load like this

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/f4/ac/c1/f4acc1f1584307504e4ef8b83838d49a--south-park-funny-comments.jpg

Dejounte I already saw this last night. And don't come for me if I don't send for you.

[Thomas82]

https://news4sanantonio.com/amp/sports/content/nba-draft-prospect-james-wiseman-says-he-studies-spurs-greats-robinson-duncan?__twitter_impression=true&fbclid=IwAR0IKIFpwuFuEFplLW-wdiXzESel3lflVj2YSsxPwiByjEko4fnRDj73FUA

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

Was listening to NBA radio and they were interviewing Penny Hardaway (University of Memphis head coach) and he stated Wiseman has a lot of skills like ball handling and shooting that folks didn’t get to see due to him sitting out.

they also talked about how smart of a player and student he was. He had a really high GPA coming out of high school

[PhantomDashCam]

Was listening to NBA radio and they were interviewing Penny Hardaway (University of Memphis head coach) and he stated Wiseman has a lot of skills like ball handling and shooting that folks didn’t get to see due to him sitting out.

they also talked about how smart of a player and student he was. He had a really high GPA coming out of high school

Yeah saw the video version to this.


https://youtu.be/d26b5ymLZTw

[PhantomDashCam]

Also I think Schmitty might be trying to kill a Spurs trade when he puts out


https://youtu.be/c8fI5LOs3Nk

How could you trade him after watching this. :lol

[Thomas82]

Also I think Schmitty might be trying to kill a Spurs trade when he puts out


https://youtu.be/c8fI5LOs3Nk

How could you trade him after watching this. :lol

I guess we'll find out soon if the Warriors are serious about keeping their window open.

[pad300]

I guess we'll find out soon if the Warriors are serious about keeping their window open.

Or you know, not interested in setting fire to the better part of $300 Million...

[SpurPadre]

19 points in the first game, 18 today and shooting threes with a nice looking shot. Dubs were smart not to take the LMA bait.

[Dejounte]

19 points in the first game, 18 today and shooting threes with a nice looking shot. Dubs were smart not to take the LMA bait.

He looks good and may have an Embiid-like impact on the league. I think the league has neutered the hell out of bigs and I don't see Wiseman as being generational enough to change that. I think the best wings will still overshadow the best future version of Wiseman.

[baseline bum]

Rockets really should offer Harden to GSW if they can't get Simmons. Way better to get a star talent than a big grab bag of crap.

[Mr. Body]

Rockets really should offer Harden to GSW if they can't get Simmons. Way better to get a star talent than a big grab bag of crap.

As shitty as the GSW is, I'd go for a lottery pick this year and knowing they'll get one from the Wolves well before I ever accept Harden on my team. Fuck, that would be team destroying.

[phxspurfan]

As shitty as the GSW is, I'd go for a lottery pick this year and knowing they'll get one from the Wolves well before I ever accept Harden on my team. Fuck, that would be team destroying.

Draymond might keep him in line, tbh. He sure as hell alpha'd KD the whole time

[Mr. Body]

Draymond might keep him in line, tbh. He sure as hell alpha'd KD the whole time

Durant is the biggest pussy in sports history. No one at this point can keep Harden in line.

[TD 21]

Durant is the biggest pussy in sports history. No one at this point can keep Harden in line.

Scumbag has that title on lock.

[baseline bum]

As shitty as the GSW is, I'd go for a lottery pick this year and knowing they'll get one from the Wolves well before I ever accept Harden on my team. Fuck, that would be team destroying.

I wouldn't want Harden either but Houston's gotta try to get something decent for that faggot. God those Miami trade offers sound horrible.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

Not surprised he is playing well. I thought he was the best player In his draft class. It would’ve been awesome if the trade rumors were true about our guys trading up to get him.

I’m happy with Vassell at the spot we drafted though and I think at worst he will be a good rotation player.

[PhantomDashCam]

Not surprised he is playing well. I thought he was the best player In his draft class. It would’ve been awesome if the trade rumors were true about our guys trading up to get him.

I’m happy with Vassell at the spot we drafted though and I think at worst he will be a good rotation player.

Agreed. Look, he still is a little lost on defence but the skills, athleticism and character are all legit. Warriors played the draft well putting out smokeys for other lottery talent but think he was always their guy.
I feel somewhat sorry for the T’Wolves, the KAT and the whole COVID situation as I feel they probably would’ve drafted him at 1.

[Prime BEEF]

19 points in the first game, 18 today and shooting threes with a nice looking shot. Dubs were smart not to take the LMA bait.
Wiseman looks like he’ll be a solid good player. But Wiggins also continues to look bad. They should want to do a Murray/LMA for Wiggins/Wiseman. Especially with Curry and Thompson getting older.

[talkspurs]

one thing to remember is the trade was not just LMA for Wiseman it also included takeing on Wiggins contract. Wiggins has looked bad to start the year as has the Warriors. If they do not turn it around shortly they will be wasting a year of Curry and have a big tax bill. Having talent is great but only if you can win with it.

[SpurPadre]

Not surprised he is playing well. I thought he was the best player In his draft class. It would’ve been awesome if the trade rumors were true about our guys trading up to get him.

I’m happy with Vassell at the spot we drafted though and I think at worst he will be a good rotation player.

The rumors were true. According to Dubs media, the Spurs were the most aggressive team in the league trying to get the 2nd pick and they might have done it had Thompson not gotten hurt.

[daslicer]

Agreed. Look, he still is a little lost on defence but the skills, athleticism and character are all legit. Warriors played the draft well putting out smokeys for other lottery talent but think he was always their guy.
I feel somewhat sorry for the T’Wolves, the KAT and the whole COVID situation as I feel they probably would’ve drafted him at 1.

I felt the Wolves should have drafted Wiseman with the number 1 pick and traded Kat for a bunch of good role players. I have never been a fan of Kat. He doesn't strike me as a winner.

[Thomas82]

Wiseman looks like he’ll be a solid good player. But Wiggins also continues to look bad. They should want to do a Murray/LMA for Wiggins/Wiseman. Especially with Curry and Thompson getting older.

I would jump all over that and throw in whatever it takes to make the numbers work. But since we didn't get Wiseman, I'm hoping we can get Evan Mobley next year.

[**BUSTA**]

The rumors were true. According to Dubs media, the Spurs were the most aggressive team in the league trying to get the 2nd pick and they might have done it had Thompson not gotten hurt.

If dubs were able to get rid of Wiggins and get the 11th pick, they should have done it. Something pretty good was going to be available.
As it turned out Vassell would have been good ,but a better pick was also available. Haliburton would have been perfect for the Warriors.

[PhantomDashCam]

I felt the Wolves should have drafted Wiseman with the number 1 pick and traded Kat for a bunch of good role players. I have never been a fan of Kat. He doesn't strike me as a winner.

I don’t know if I blame KAT as much as the entire organisation. There were clearly maturity issues, they maxed out Wiggins etc. that contributed to a culture of entitlement. Then Thibs, in danger of losing his job, goes into self preservation mode and traded for Jimmy Buckets and we all know how that turned out.
As much as the line gets thrown around that “it’s business, nothing personal” the reality is that the NBA is very much a brotherhood and franchise reputations matter.
KAT has gone through one of the most difficult, personal battles I’ve seen documented in the NBA (see below if unaware) and would think that any conversations about co-existing with Wiseman, or trading him would have never materialised.

https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/emotional-karl-anthony-towns-dedicates-game-ball-to-mother-who-died-of-covid-19-052017936.html


COVID devastated Towns’ family

It was a truly devastating offseason for Towns. In addition to losing his mother, whom he was clearly very close with, Towns revealed earlier this month that he’s lost six other family members (https://sports.yahoo.com/karl-anthony-towns-says-hes-lost-seven-family-members-to-covid-19-213222599.html) to the coronavirus. He said that his uncle was one of the victims (https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/07/us/nba-karl-anthony-towns-covid-spt-trnd/index.html) of the pandemic that’s wreaked a disastrous toll on his family.

[Chinook]

Two possibilities if the Spurs and Warriors want to do a Wiseman trade: Wiggins and Wiseman for DeRozan and Poeltl, with the Spurs maybe adding picks and potentially moving more money like taking on Looney and sending Mills/Gay. The other deal would be Wiggins and Wiseman for LMA and Mills (and likely picks).

I'd rather do the former trade and then move Aldridge if they want to start Wiseman or just let LMA walk if the team has something going with him. It makes a lot of sense to keep DeRozan if the team is going to have a high-potential big with three-point range. But I also think they'd do well to trade Poeltl if they plan to bring in a young center, and that's hard to do in a GS deal if LMA is the main vet piece. You could do a three-for-one deal where the Spurs do like Gay, Murray and Poeltl. But I like trading for Wiseman less if both of the top vets are still around. Random as it is, Gay is the guy I'd want to keep the most of the oldies.

Mills and Poeltl would make a decent trade package, not for Wiseman but in general. Sucks that Jakob can't be traded any time soon though. The Spurs do have moveable pieces though, and if they really did want Wiseman, I'd be fine with them being aggressive in acquiring him. That goes double if the team can protect White, Johnson and at least one of Vassell and Walker.

[R. DeMurre]

After missing almost all of his freshman college season, not playing for months during covid, and missing all of the preseason, Wiseman in two games as an NBA player has now put up 37 points and 14 rebounds, plus 2 steals & 3 blocks while going 4 for 5 from three point land...That ship has sailed.:lol I imagine the only thing on the table at this point in an Aldridge trade is Dejounte's college teammate Marquese Chriss. Tbh though, Chriss is one guy I'm watching this year-- his play was pretty good at the end of last season, and he's almost a full year younger than Dejounte.

[baseline bum]

After missing almost all of his freshman college season, not playing for months during covid, and missing all of the preseason, Wiseman in two games as an NBA player has now put up 37 points and 14 rebounds, plus 2 steals & 3 blocks while going 4 for 5 from three point land...That ship has sailed.:lol I imagine the only thing on the table at this point in an Aldridge trade is Dejounte's college teammate Marquese Chriss. Tbh though, Chriss is one guy I'm watching this year-- his play was pretty good at the end of last season, and he's almost a full year younger than Dejounte.

Yeah the thought of getting Wiseman for Aldridge or DeRozan right now when he has shown he can play at this level is absolutely none. Only trade I could see the Warriors doing would be if Houston offers Harden. And Houston should, pretty doubtful they'll get a better offer if Simmons is really off the table. Even then I think I'd prefer Wiseman as Simmons' shot looks unfixable.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

With GS looking terrible again I can't see them moving Wiseman for a win-now package, unless it's a total no brainer like Harden. They're no better than last season and I expect them to ride it out and get one more lottery pick. Maybe two if Minnesota are bad as well. They'll have to do something about their lux tax bills if they're going into rebuild/retool though.

[rankingtear]

We offered the best package and GS turned it down. GS can now afford to wait, seeing they are nowhere close to contention with 40+ million of their cap space out with an Achilles tear, it would cost us a lot more to re engage them on the trade. Our leverage of giving them a win now piece and Wiseman not contributing in the playoffs as a rookie is gone. No reason to trade when you are at a disadvantage, you will just get fleeced.

[Ice009]

So it is true that the Spurs really tried to trade up for the second pick to select Wiseman? Looks like there is no way the Warriors would do that trade now, but I'd still put in offers and see if they're interested. Hopefully they turn it around and start looking for win-now players.

[Biggems]

Yep, what a pipe dream, LMA and a 2021 protected 1st for Wiseman and Wiggins. Then DDR and cash for Christian Wood and a 2nd.

Starting

C Wiseman
PF Wood
SF Vassell
SG KJ
PG Murray

2nd
C Poetl
PF Eubanks
SF Gay
SG Walker
PG Mills

Others
F/C Samanic
G/F Diop
PG Jones

Then shake it up a bit when White and Q come back.


Also, I have no idea how to fit Wiggins into the lineup. He was a means to an end to score JW, and will be traded for whatever scraps we can get at the deadline.

[R. DeMurre]

It's fascinating how fast fortunes can change-- a few years ago, critics complained the NBA had no parity and the Warriors had too much talent on one team. Now we've had 4 different champs in 5 years, and the Warriors look to have no shot this year at all, are saddled with one of worst contracts in the league, but also might have added the best young big in the draft...

[Dennis the Menace]

“We are light years ahead of everyone else.”

[Mr. Body]

Getting rid of D'Angelo Russell was a massvie mistake. They'd at least be competitive. Essentially they traded Kevin Durant for Andrew fucking Wiggins, although they'll get that protected lottery pick from the Wolves, so it may work out.

[Thomas82]

Bumping this since we see him tomorrow for the first time.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

Hopefully he doesn’t kill us tomorrow.

i was surprised that the Warriors beat the Lakers last night also.

[cjw]

Getting rid of D'Angelo Russell was a massvie mistake. They'd at least be competitive. Essentially they traded Kevin Durant for Andrew fucking Wiggins, although they'll get that protected lottery pick from the Wolves, so it may work out.

The Warriors are probably a play-in team this year so picking in the middle of first round. Will be very interesting to see what happens to Minnesota, as even if they’re one of the three worst teams in the league they only have a 40% of being top 3. I don’t see them being better than sixth worst, which is about a 27.5% chance of keeping pick.

To maximize their window, I’m sure GS would love that pick to convey as soon as possible. But if things get ugly in Minnesota and KAT pushes his way out, it could be a juicy top of draft pick the following year.

Don’t think even the Warriors realized what a dumpster fire the Wolves would be. Or maybe they did, and that’s the only reason they took on Wiggins.

[Seventyniner]

Getting rid of D'Angelo Russell was a massvie mistake. They'd at least be competitive. Essentially they traded Kevin Durant for Andrew fucking Wiggins, although they'll get that protected lottery pick from the Wolves, so it may work out.

Well, Durant was walking anyway. They traded nothing for Russell, which is an okay move (though I didn't like it due to all the other big salaries they had), then took another big downgrade from Russell to Wiggins to get that draft pick. If they're willing to pay that much luxury tax more power to them.

[Mugen]

:lol D'lo sucks. I'd probably rather have Wiggins and the Dubs got a 1st rounder out of it to boot. If Klay doesn't get hurt, they're easily a top 2 team in the West this year IMO.

[Thomas82]

I see Wiseman just got replaced by Looney in the Warriors starting lineup.

[Robz4000]

I see Wiseman just got replaced by Looney in the Warriors starting lineup.

Prolly to get Wiseman more touches. Looney is also a superior defender at this point.

[rankingtear]

I see Wiseman just got replaced by Looney in the Warriors starting lineup.

They have the worst starting lineup in terms of Net Rating, Oubre and Wiseman seems to be disasters on offense for them.

[Thomas82]

I see Bob Myers is swearing up and down that the Warriors won't trade Wiseman. But then again, they said the same thing about D'Angelo Russell.

[MultiTroll]

Wasn't a huge motivation factor, perhaps the #1 m factor for the Warriors in acquiring LMA is because he was on an expiring and they were clearing space for anticipated run at Greek Freak and a return to a stacked lineup and their fake glory years? And more power to them for trying.

Greek renewed with Milwaukee when combined with the Klanus new injury thus they wanted to keep Wiseman.
It was never about solely a Wiseman for LMA. :lol

[R. DeMurre]

I see Bob Myers is swearing up and down that the Warriors won't trade Wiseman. But then again, they said the same thing about D'Angelo Russell.

This is why you have to take every tweet, quote, and interview with a grain of salt. It would be silly to let every opponent know your strategy ahead of time, and there's always the diplomacy angle along with egos of players to consider. If an interviewer sticks a mic in front of a player's face and says "hey, are your teammates good guys??" of course the vast majority of players are going to say yes, they're great! It would be incredibly awkward and an obvious cause of unnecessary friction if that question was answered honestly with spot on critiques. I'm guessing Pop and RC knew pretty definitively late last season that Forbes wouldn't be re-signed, but they're not gonna talk about that in interviews.

[Thomas82]

This is why you have to take every tweet, quote, and interview with a grain of salt. It would be silly to let every opponent know your strategy ahead of time, and there's always the diplomacy angle along with egos of players to consider. If an interviewer sticks a mic in front of a player's face and says "hey, are your teammates good guys??" of course the vast majority of players are going to say yes, they're great! It would be incredibly awkward and an obvious cause of unnecessary friction if that question was answered honestly with spot on critiques. I'm guessing Pop and RC knew pretty definitively late last season that Forbes wouldn't be re-signed, but they're not gonna talk about that in interviews.

All good points!!

[exstatic]

Wasn't a huge motivation factor, perhaps the #1 m factor for the Warriors in acquiring LMA is because he was on an expiring and they were clearing space for anticipated run at Greek Freak and a return to a stacked lineup and their fake glory years? And more power to them for trying.

Greek renewed with Milwaukee when combined with the Klanus new injury thus they wanted to keep Wiseman.
It was never about solely a Wiseman for LMA. :lol

They weren’t clearing CAP space. That would have been impossible, since their payroll is still sky high. They were clearing contracts to get under the TAX. They are in the 3X penalty mode, which explains why they shipped Chriss + cash to SA.

[Chinook]

Wasn't a huge motivation factor, perhaps the #1 m factor for the Warriors in acquiring LMA is because he was on an expiring and they were clearing space for anticipated run at Greek Freak and a return to a stacked lineup and their fake glory years? And more power to them for trying.

Greek renewed with Milwaukee when combined with the Klanus new injury thus they wanted to keep Wiseman.
It was never about solely a Wiseman for LMA. :lol

The Warriors had so much money tied up in Curry and Thompson that a run at Giannis wasn't in the cards anyway. Insofar as the deal wasn't about LMA, it was about getting free from Wiggins' salary and lowering the tax burden. It's also possible they were just going to move down in the draft and/or get additional value from SA.

[exstatic]

This is why you have to take every tweet, quote, and interview with a grain of salt. It would be silly to let every opponent know your strategy ahead of time, and there's always the diplomacy angle along with egos of players to consider. If an interviewer sticks a mic in front of a player's face and says "hey, are your teammates good guys??" of course the vast majority of players are going to say yes, they're great! It would be incredibly awkward and an obvious cause of unnecessary friction if that question was answered honestly with spot on critiques. I'm guessing Pop and RC knew pretty definitively late last season that Forbes wouldn't be re-signed, but they're not gonna talk about that in interviews.

You didn’t pick up on Forbes not playing even one second in the Bubble? That was pretty much the announcement that he wouldn’t be re-signed.

[R. DeMurre]

You didn’t pick up on Forbes not playing even one second in the Bubble? That was pretty much the announcement that he wouldn’t be re-signed.

<I> did, sure, but my point was Pop or RC weren't going to stand in front of a microphone while the season was still going and actually say we're not re-signing Bryn in the off season.... I was responding to a post about GMs supposedly being "dishonest" about future intentions, and making the point that they're not going to say certain things publicly because it would amount to either showing their cards to the competition or embarrassing the player in an undiplomatic fashion, both of which most front offices don't want to do.

[rjv]

i'm just glad we didn't wind up with wiggins.

[The Truth #6]

i'm just glad we didn't wind up with wiggins.

I agree in theory, but in retrospect would I have traded LMA, a player that did nothing for us last year and then retired, as part of a package to be able to swap picks with GS while having to take on Wiggins? I think so. Wiggins is an albatross, but GS actually some production out of him. Who knows who we would have gotten with the GS pick. Maybe not Wiseman and someone who panned out...who knows?