Tyrese Haliburton - 2020 NBA Draft Prospect

[timvp]

https://i.imgur.com/wtw1DME.jpg

Tyrese Haliburton

College: Iowa State
Position: PG/SG
Age: 20
Height: 6-foot-5
Weight: 175 pounds
Draft Range: 4 to 12

Why: Extremely high basketball IQ. Very good passer and elite court vision. Great decisions on the fast break. Not a great athlete but decent hops and can surprise with bursts of speed. Quality shooter with deep range (42% on threes, 82% at the line). Has experience on the ball and off the ball. Elite instincts as a help defender; gets steals in bunches. High character, team-first player.

Why Not: His quickness and ball-handling are iffy enough that it's not a given he can be a PG on the NBA level. His shot goes in but it's funky. Has a low release point that could be an issue in the NBA. Doesn't get to the line. Will need to get stronger to become a good one-on-one defender. Iowa State was only 10-13 when Haliburton was lost for the year with a broken wrist.

Spurs Fit: He's rotation-ready early on. Fits next to either White or Murray in the backcourt. If nothing else, his fast break acumen and his ability to make the right passes would be helpful as a rookie.

Spurs Comparison - Ceiling: Derrick White 2.0

Spurs Comparison - Floor: Poor Man's George Hill

Statistics (http://www.tankathon.com/players/tyrese-haliburton)
Scouting Video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3qOd8PQvxQ)
Interview (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE01JBGKSa8)

[spurspl]

best pg in the draft

[exstatic]

There’s going to be 3,4,5 teams kicking themselves for not drafting him because he has a funky jumper and might not have the combine measurements they’d like.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Gut feeling this is the guy if he’s there at 11. High B-ball iq and character being the main reasons.

[Russ]

I see more Jacques Vaughn than Trae Young (to put it in Big 12 terms).

It helps to be either real fast or real physical and he doesn't seem to be either -- so his high-level college game may not translate at the highest level at the next level.

He should be a solid backup at least, but as for more, maybe but maybe not . . .

[ZeusWillJudge]

Put me down for one.

With this roster, a lot of coaches would put him straight into the fire. Pop wouldn't, but that doesn't change who/what the kid is. Without the injury, I don't think there was a chance in hell that he would fall to 11. If he's there (and if they've confirmed his health), I think he's a no-brainer. He's a draft-worth PG, and all the gods know they need one.


Edit: Two things that won't get mentioned much. He's got a floater, which should really help until he gets a little more strength/bulk. And he's a pretty good rebounder. With him at the point, the Spurs would have one of the best rebounding guard crews around, IMO. Not a bad thing in the New NBA.

[Russ]

Considering the dregs available at 11, he might be worth it if he's there.

I just hope that the Spurs move up a few picks to a different level of player (probably won't happen, but I just have a hunch that it might this year).

[Kurik]

I could be way off but on a few plays I saw glimpses of a young slightly shorter Brent Barry.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Considering the dregs available at 11, he might be worth it if he's there.

I just hope that the Spurs move up a few picks to a different level of player (probably won't happen, but I just have a hunch that it might this year).


I don't think there's any way they could trade up to the top 3-4 picks. So after those, who's your guy to trade up for?

Would you trade down with the C's if they would give up two lower firsts for the 11 pick?

[look_at_g_shred]

How many teams for sure need a PG ahead of us?
Wiz/PHX/NYK/Det? I doubt he's there at 11.

[Russ]

I don't think there's any way they could trade up to the top 3-4 picks. So after those, who's your guy to trade up for?

Would you trade down with the C's if they would give up two lower firsts for the 11 pick?

Based upon how the draft goes, I could see trading up from 11 or trading down from 11. It might have to be done in real time, like apparently it was when Kawhi fell to 15 (which was always possible although far from certain). Irons may need to be placed in the fire with certain teams in advance (like they probably were with Kawhi).

I doubt the Spurs could trade up to 3 or 4, but if one of their guys fell to 7 or 8 or 9, I could see it. If Okongwu or Advija fell to that range (again unlikely) I could see the Spurs trying to move (if they like those guys as much as I do). You could probably add Wiseman, Toppin, Hayes, Ball and Edwards to that list. (Although I personally don't like Edwards or Ball for the Spurs.)

Otherwise, depending on who is there at 11, I might favor trading down. The guys who might be left are guys the Spurs have been used to drafting later in the 1st round -- they're good at evaluating those guys. The Spurs may think they could trade down and still get the guy they would take (if forced) at 11 plus another asset (e.g., a draft pick). It appears that 11 through 20 (or more) may be a big group that have no clear order. The Spurs can either be victimized by that or (possibly) take advantage of it.

[exstatic]

Based upon how the draft goes, I could see trading up from 11 or trading down from 11. It might have to be done in real time, like apparently it was when Kawhi fell to 15 (which was always possible although far from certain). Irons may need to be placed in the fire with certain teams in advance (like they probably were with Kawhi).

I doubt the Spurs could trade up to 3 or 4, but if one of their guys fell to 7 or 8 or 9, I could see it. If Okongwu or Advija fell to that range (again unlikely) I could see the Spurs trying to move (if they like those guys as much as I do). You could probably add Wiseman, Toppin, Hayes, Ball and Edwards to that list. (Although I personally don't like Edwards or Ball for the Spurs.)

Otherwise, depending on who is there at 11, I might favor trading down. The guys who might be left are guys the Spurs have been used to drafting later in the 1st round -- they're good at evaluating those guys. The Spurs may think they could trade down and still get the guy they would take (if forced) at 11 plus another asset (e.g., a draft pick). It appears that 11 through 20 (or more) may be a big group that have no clear order. The Spurs can either be victimized by that or (possibly) take advantage of it.

Up is a waste if it’s not top3. Those are the only high ceiling, high floor players in the draft. It flattens out really quickly after that.

[phxspurfan]

Seems legit. Better than random slow wings that people hope and wish become faster so they can be a poor mans Leonard. Once we get rid of Forbes and Mills/Beli retire, we will need shooters desperately

[Russ]

Up is a waste if it’s not top3. Those are the only high ceiling, high floor players in the draft. It flattens out really quickly after that.

I think this draft goes 7 deep, but that's just a difference of opinion.

[TD 21]

I'm skeptical he gets to 7. The Warriors are said to be fans and are trade back candidates. Meanwhile, the Hornets, Bulls and Pistons, could all use him. Even the Cavaliers, if they're ready to trade one of Sexton or Garland.

That said, if he does, I'd offer Murray and 11 to the Pistons for Brown or Thomas and 7.

Haliburton and White could be a very good back court going forward. IQ, size, shooting, play making, defense.


Seems legit. Better than random slow wings that people hope and wish become faster so they can be a poor mans Leonard. Once we get rid of Forbes and Mills/Beli retire, we will need shooters desperately

Yeah, but the shooters have to be core players, not physical liability specialists that destroy the defense. There's only room for one of those in a rotation and it's in a 15-20 mpg backup role, where it's easier to dictate matchups.

[Seventyniner]

I don't think there's any way they could trade up to the top 3-4 picks. So after those, who's your guy to trade up for?

Would you trade down with the C's if they would give up two lower firsts for the 11 pick?

The C's have #14, 26, and 30. For 14 and one of the two lower ones it would be a no-brainer. For 26 and 30, I'm not so sure. The Spurs are very good at finding solid role-players in that range, but it's much harder to get a true star down there. Keldon is showing flashes but still has a ways to go.

[ZeusWillJudge]

The C's have #14, 26, and 30. For 14 and one of the two lower ones it would be a no-brainer. For 26 and 30, I'm not so sure. The Spurs are very good at finding solid role-players in that range, but it's much harder to get a true star down there. Keldon is showing flashes but still has a ways to go.


I agree with passing on 26 + 30. And normally Ainge wouldn't trade 14 plus another first for 11 without demanding too much as a sweetener. But they (Boston) have $140M committed next season, and BRI is going to take a hit even if the league implements some kind of smoothing and/or other leniency measures. If Boston has their eye on a guy that they don't want to lose, there might be a deal to be made. Maybe the Spurs have to throw in a second next year or something, but I can see that kind of 2-for-1 happening this season more than most.

Personally, I think getting at least one NBA-ready guy is a big deal right now. But two firsts might let them also take a flyer on a high upside, higher-risk guy. A PG, a project forward, and maybe someone like Kenyon Martin jr. with the second round pick and I'd call it a day.


I hate starting new threads, but the effect of this COVID debacle on BRI and the salary cap is going to have a big effect on team strategies for the next two years, at least. (SHOULD have a big effect, anyway.) Personally, I think it's going to benefit the big market teams even more, which means the small market teams that aren't smart are going to get crushed.

[DAF86]

I really hope all these 6'5" combo guards get taken before 11 so that the Spurs don't feel tempted to draft yet another of these, tbh.

[exstatic]

I really hope all these 6'5" combo guards get taken before 11 so that the Spurs don't feel tempted to draft yet another of these, tbh.

He’s not a combo guard, he’s a pure play PG.

[DAF86]

He’s not a combo guard, he’s a pure play PG.

Not according to what timvp said here, tbh. I'll admit, I haven't watched any tape from this guy, in fact I haven't watched any tape of any of the many 6'4"/6'5" guys that are being thrown around as lottery picks (except Edwards). I'm just sick and tired of these type of players, we already have a platoon of them. So I'll admit I can be completely missing out on a future Superstar of the league. If the Spurs think any of these 6'5" guys has that potential, then they should definitely go for it.

[Darius Bieber]

As an Iowa State alum and fan, I can give you a few pointers about him since I watch every single one of their games.

We had a down/rebuilding year. We had basically 4 out of 5 starters from the previous year leave to NBA/graduate and he was basically our entire offense. In fact, our entire starting line up prior to this era is now all in the NBA (Monte Morris [Nuggets], Naz Mitrou-Long [Pacers], Georges Niang [Jazz], Matt Thomas [Raptors], Talen Horton-Tucker [Lakers]) How we beat Texas by 30 without him, I will never know...

He really is the real deal. He is the most "Spur" like player in the draft: humble, soft-spoken, has breakfast in the hotel every morning with his mom before games.

He is an elite passer, and I think he will be an elite defender in the NBA as well. I believe he led Iowa State in steals, and has great reach for a PG of his size. He handles the ball very well.

One thing that is kind of worrisome is his "out of control"-ness. Very much like Murray in that way. I also think he will go way before 11, though. A lot of mock drafts have him in the 5-8 range.

If you guys have any questions about him, feel free to ask.

[spurspl]

As an Iowa State alum and fan, I can give you a few pointers about him since I watch every single one of their games.

We had a down/rebuilding year. We had basically 4 out of 5 starters from the previous year leave to NBA/graduate and he was basically our entire offense. In fact, our entire starting line up prior to this era is now all in the NBA (Monte Morris [Nuggets], Naz Mitrou-Long [Pacers], Georges Niang [Jazz], Matt Thomas [Raptors], Talen Horton-Tucker [Lakers]) How we beat Texas by 30 without him, I will never know...

He really is the real deal. He is the most "Spur" like player in the draft: humble, soft-spoken, has breakfast in the hotel every morning with his mom before games.

He is an elite passer, and I think he will be an elite defender in the NBA as well. I believe he led Iowa State in steals, and has great reach for a PG of his size. He handles the ball very well.

One thing that is kind of worrisome is his "out of control"-ness. Very much like Murray in that way. I also think he will go way before 11, though. A lot of mock drafts have him in the 5-8 range.

If you guys have any questions about him, feel free to ask.

thats nice to hear, hes my guy in this draft and after what u said i like him even more. But we are stuck in guard position so we would have to trade f.e murray (unfortunately unlikely to happen). But still i think like you that he will be gone before 11th pick.

[Prime BEEF]

He’s not a combo guard, he’s a pure play PG.
Agreed. Yes, he’s a pure PG. I’ve watched a lot of his games...pass first, good playmaker, can shoot, has length and plays solid defense

[kobyz]

Could be the next Manu!

[jeebus]

Pass. He'd take away valuable minutes from Bryn Forbes. Poop isn't going to let Forbes go away quietly.

[objective]

I haven't watched full games yet only youtube breakdowns and this guy is too damn skinny. Vassell is wiry, but Haliburton hyper twiggy.

[look_at_g_shred]

Reminds me of Livingston (post injury)

[spurspl]

I haven't watched full games yet only youtube breakdowns and this guy is too damn skinny. Vassell is wiry, but Haliburton hyper twiggy.

being twiggy as a pg isnt such a problem. Curry, trae, morant, they all are skinny as hell but still dominant. Hali has a lots of skills to be also so productive as guys above. Lack of weights becomes a serious problem for a SF/PF/C. They need to have muscles and strenght.

[Dejounte]

Alright, basically from what I see from watching this guy a little bit is this:

Wow. I'm buying in. This player is legit and blows all the other guards in this draft out of the water (aside from maybe Kira). Derrick White comparison is on point. He reads ball screens just like Derrick. He will go left and right and then left. He makes absolutely great reads. His vision is better than Derrick. I don't like his shot, but that can be better. When he takes them, it's not out of rhythm, which is important. But I'm very, very impressed by his basketball IQ.

Prelim player comparison: Derrick White with better vision/ point guard instincts

[exstatic]

Alright, basically from what I see from watching this guy a little bit is this:

Wow. I'm buying in. This player is legit and blows all the other guards in this draft out of the water (aside from maybe Kira). Derrick White comparison is on point. He reads ball screens just like Derrick. He will go left and right and then left. He makes absolutely great reads. His vision is better than Derrick. I don't like his shot, but that can be better. When he takes them, it's not out of rhythm, which is important. But I'm very, very impressed by his basketball IQ.

Prelim player comparison: Derrick White with better vision/ point guard instincts

His shot is ugly AF, but his frikkin range is unlimited. He easily launches from 30. You have to honor it,which sets up his penetration game.

[timvp]

Alright, basically from what I see from watching this guy a little bit is this:

Wow. I'm buying in. This player is legit and blows all the other guards in this draft out of the water (aside from maybe Kira). Derrick White comparison is on point. He reads ball screens just like Derrick. He will go left and right and then left. He makes absolutely great reads. His vision is better than Derrick. I don't like his shot, but that can be better. When he takes them, it's not out of rhythm, which is important. But I'm very, very impressed by his basketball IQ.

Prelim player comparison: Derrick White with better vision/ point guard instincts

Yeah, that basketball IQ is what would make him such a good fit. If we're being honest, this team has a really short supply of basketball IQ as it stands. Haliburton would be a big boost in that regard. Specifically, you can put him next to Dejounte and he'd help balance out his weaknesses.


His shot is ugly AF, but his frikkin range is unlimited. He easily launches from 30. You have to honor it,which sets up his penetration game.

Agree. Terrible form but two straight years of over 41% with evidence of extreme range? I think he'll be fine shooting the ball. Probably won't be a high volume shooter but he should be a ~36-38% three-point shooter pretty quickly.

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/_WhIjipvOmc

Yo, what the FUCK is that pass at 4:38!?

This dude is toying with defenses. His fake outs are top notch.

Yup, I'm leaning towards star on this one.

[Seventyniner]

Yo, what the FUCK is that pass at 4:38!?

This dude is toying with defenses. His fake outs are top notch.

Yup, I'm leaning towards star on this one.

Looking the defender off in midair, jesus. That's the kind of thing almost nobody should try.

[Darius Bieber]

I would honestly be okay with trading up in the draft if we're trying to get this guy - even without my Iowa State bias.

[spurspl]

i wish we had him instead of murray

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/xps0H8s0g0Y

This is the first player I can confidently say has a strong chance of attaining stardom...and I've watched a shit load of players. This is so ironic because I was so against drafting another guard.
But if he's there at #11, it's a no brainer. It's SHOWTIME whenever he's on the court. It would make watching the Spurs super fun again. Fuck it, run a 3 guard line-up if you have to.

Halliburton/ White/ Q
Keldon/ Mills
DeMar/ Lonnie
Lyles/ Reed/ Samanic
Aldridge/ Poetl

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/pdyhBCPBHto

The speed at which he does the move at 0:20. So effortless.

[The Truth #6]

A gym rat with potential to improve. Or a player with a high BBIQ who can hold his own on defense. Those are my broad criterion for who to draft. Halliburton might be both. But I think his combine numbers would have to be bad for him to drop to us. But after watching these clips, which are not just athletic highlights, I am sold on this guy.

[Kurgan]

https://youtu.be/xps0H8s0g0Y

This is the first player I can confidently say has a strong chance of attaining stardom...and I've watched a shit load of players. This is so ironic because I was so against drafting another guard.
But if he's there at #11, it's a no brainer. It's SHOWTIME whenever he's on the court. It would make watching the Spurs super fun again. Fuck it, run a 3 guard line-up if you have to.

Halliburton/ White/ Q
Keldon/ Mills
DeMar/ Lonnie
Lyles/ Reed/ Samanic
Aldridge/ Poetl

lol, where's your namesake in that lineup? Kinda hard to ignore somone that just received a 60 million extension from the Spurs. Murray's my least favorite of all our youngsters but the front office probably thinks differently considering how much money they have invested in him

[Dejounte]

lol, where's your namesake in that lineup? Kinda hard to ignore somone that just received a 60 million extension from the Spurs. Murray's my least favorite of all our youngsters but the front office probably thinks differently considering how much money they have invested in him

Disowning him and changing my username to Halliburton lmao

[ginobilized]

Intriguing player. He’d be a great fit in SA.
Doubt he drops to 11, but, would love it if he did.
Might go to Golden State, he’d fit there quite well, too.

[timvp]

Disowning him and changing my username to Halliburton lmao

How about Dick Cheney?

[timvp]

I think Haliburton has some bust potential if you're counting on him to be a full-time point guard. His ball-handling is a bit stiff, his on-ball defense is susceptible to strength and his lack of blow-by speed would be an issue as a full-time point guard. But pair him with White or Murray and he'd be fine. I know SpursTalk is low on Murray for the minute but Murray and Haliburton next to each other would be fun to watch. Super fast paced on offense and Murray hounding the ball with Haliburton blowing up passing lanes on defense. Add in the genius level decisions that would be made when White and Haliburton are on the court ... and he's an easy pick at 11.

IMO, the ultimate no-brainer picks at 11 are Toppin, Okongwu and Haliburton.

[Dejounte]

How about Dick Cheney?

Not sure I understand the joke...

On a serious note, would you allow me a user name change if I wanted?

[timvp]

Not sure I understand the joke...

On a serious note, would you allow me a user name change if I wanted?

Usernames usually aren't changeable but remind me after the draft and we'll change it to Jalen, Tyrese, Obi, LaMelo or whatever :lol

[exstatic]

Not sure I understand the joke...

On a serious note, would you allow me a user name change if I wanted?

Just a suggestion, but don’t use a player name. You’ll only be asking again in a year or two.

[Dejounte]

Just a suggestion, but don’t use a player name. You’ll only be asking again in a year or two.

Hoping one day we find another Tim, Tony, Duncan -loyal type player. It's a gamble... White might be that lifelong career Spur.

[Darius Bieber]

Not sure I understand the joke...

On a serious note, would you allow me a user name change if I wanted?

Things usually take a while on here.. I'm still pinked from 5+ years ago. :depressed

[rankingtear]

I think Haliburton has some bust potential if you're counting on him to be a full-time point guard. His ball-handling is a bit stiff, his on-ball defense is susceptible to strength and his lack of blow-by speed would be an issue as a full-time point guard. But pair him with White or Murray and he'd be fine. I know SpursTalk is low on Murray for the minute but Murray and Haliburton next to each other would be fun to watch. Super fast paced on offense and Murray hounding the ball with Haliburton blowing up passing lanes on defense. Add in the genius level decisions that would be made when White and Haliburton are on the court ... and he's an easy pick at 11.

IMO, the ultimate no-brainer picks at 11 are Toppin, Okongwu and Haliburton.

Yeah he fits Murray more than White. Haliburton won't score much on-ball, form is a set shot not effective in pull ups, not a downhill player, not much frame to add strength to be an effective finisher at the rim.

[Dejounte]

https://theathletic.com/2068587/2020/09/18/tyrese-haliburton-nba-draft-iowa-state-lottery-prospect?source=user-shared-article

"Country boy who is always smiling"....hmm sounds like somebody we know.

His father made him watch Magic Johnson according to the article. No wonder he has all that swag.

[Chinook]

Honestly, I'm not that big of a fan. I've watch barely anything he's done, but from what' I've seen his best attribute is his passing. His shooting looks good too, but I wonder if he'll have the Jimmer problem of not really being able to get it too consistently unless he's the one with the ball. I think I prefer the Spurs draft Lewis if they're looking at a guard at 11. Kira can also shoot pretty well, and I think his speed is a legit NBA skill that he'll be able to leverage to become a good point guard. I'm not sure if Haliburton can do enough on offense at the NBA level to allow his passing to shine.

Not saying he can't succeed, but I have similar concerns about him that I did about Poke. It's not that he didn't play against any good competition, but that his value is going to rely on his game, usage, shot-selection, driving ability to transfer to the next level. It's a thin margin, and so much of what makes him intriguing would fall apart if even one or two things can make the leap.

[R. DeMurre]

A back court of Haliburton & White has an off-the-charts BB IQ. This guy has really grown on me.

[mo7888]

I like Haliburton myself, not enough to trade up for him but I'd consider him at 11 pretty strongly. I also like Lewis as well but I wouldn't take him at 11. If I could trade back with Boston I might take him there if a couple of other targets were off the board. I'd use the extra pick of the first on Woodard if he's still on the board.

[Dejounte]

Honestly, I'm not that big of a fan. I've watch barely anything he's done, but from what' I've seen his best attribute is his passing. His shooting looks good too, but I wonder if he'll have the Jimmer problem of not really being able to get it too consistently unless he's the one with the ball. I think I prefer the Spurs draft Lewis if they're looking at a guard at 11. Kira can also shoot pretty well, and I think his speed is a legit NBA skill that he'll be able to leverage to become a good point guard. I'm not sure if Haliburton can do enough on offense at the NBA level to allow his passing to shine.

Not saying he can't succeed, but I have similar concerns about him that I did about Poke. It's not that he didn't play against any good competition, but that his value is going to rely on his game, usage, shot-selection, driving ability to transfer to the next level. It's a thin margin, and so much of what makes him intriguing would fall apart if even one or two things can make the leap.

Come on, man. At least watch a bit more. The talent is eye popping. It's like watching Steph Curry confidence out there with him, with skill to back it up.

He dominates Kira in this matchup:


https://youtu.be/Yww8cmZ4MSc

Kira, with all his speed, can't get past Tyrese when he's covered by him.

[Dejounte]

I don't remember what was the talk at the time but what led to Steph Curry being drafted #7 in his class? It's not like the other players had way better college stats.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=stephen-curry--blake-griffin--james-harden--hasheem-thabeet

Was it because those other six players had "legit level NBA size and athleticism"?

[Dejounte]

Tyrese's usage % (20%) is lower than most, if not all, his college point guard peers.

[Chinook]

Come on, man. At least watch a bit more. The talent is eye popping. It's like watching Steph Curry confidence out there with him, with skill to back it up.

He dominates Kira in this matchup:


https://youtu.be/Yww8cmZ4MSc

Kira, with all his speed, can't get past Tyrese when he's covered by him.

I don't really put any stock into dominating a matchup in college. I'm sure both players will learn and adapt. I have no doubt that folks are right and Haliburton does have a super BBIQ and probably does understand how to execute a defensive gameplan way better than the average college player. Lewis probably isn't there yet. But that doesn't mean that that will always be the case. Parker struggled against length at various points of his career and only seemed to figure it out completely in his absolute prime. He was still a very good offensive player for years. Lewis is also going to have to learn how to harness his talent in the most efficient way possible. But as he's doing that, he'll still be a good shooter who'll be able to attack in secondary penetration.

Look at this game for example. From these highlights, it's clear that ISU gameplanned their whole effort around stopping Lewis. I think suggesting Haliburton did some great one-on-one job is mischaracterizing what happened. He had a butt-ton of help on every possession. Every time Lewis got into the paint, multiple players closed out on him. It looks to me like Lewis didn't know how to handle that kind of attention and became passive. In the future, it's not hard to imagine that he and his coaches will have ways to counter that. Dude was 18.

I really don't care about flashy passes or fakes. I know a lot of folks grew up enraptured by Jason Williams, but I'm perfectly fine with a guy who makes boring passes that get to the right man. Seeing more of Haliburton gives me the impression of a guy with a pretty complete college game but with shooting that may just not translate to the NBA level. If he can't score reliably at the NBA level, then his IQ isn't going to do nearly as much good, because defenses are not going to key on him as much. Even his absurd range isn't that assuring, because it seems to be a function of his release point. He HAS to stand that far away to get his shot off. That negates the added spacing because players can play just as far off him and still recover. It also means his teammates have to make longer passes for the equivalent shot, leading to a great risk of the ball getting deflected.

His defense is probably workable, but if it's basically just off-ball stuff, then teams might just go directly at him way more to prevent that. Like would he still be an Anderson-level defender? Yes. That's actually really good, though his smaller frame than Kyle will drop that impact somewhat. I'm not sure that the net is really as possible as folks think, especially when talking about upside.

[Chinook]

I don't remember what was the talk at the time but what led to Steph Curry being drafted #7 in his class? It's not like the other players had way better college stats.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=stephen-curry--blake-griffin--james-harden--hasheem-thabeet

Was it because those other six players had "legit level NBA size and athleticism"?

Curry was a junior who played at a small school. He was basically a proto-Lillard.

[Dejounte]

I guess every prospect has questions, otherwise they'd be the #1 pick. Tyrese's IQ and confidence tells me he will overcome those doubts early in his career. We will see. I've seen many athletic freaks fail more than I have seen IQ players fail. It's what makes me lean more towards Jalen Smith than Precious.

The passes weren't just flashy, they were smart. He makes high level reads.

[kobyz]

He is a cross between Jason Kidd and Manu Ginobili

[Russ]

He is a cross between Jason Kidd and Manu Ginobili

He reminds me more of ex-Spur Donnie Freeman. You have to really go back to remember Donnie.

Donnie had that same Haliburton/George Hill frame -- kind of tall for a guard (back then), lanky, skinny.

Same smooth but not explosive game. When Donnie left the Spurs to go to the Lakers (just before the NBA/ABA merger) Laker voice Chick Hearn gave him a nickname -- "Fluid Drive."

Donnie was getting older when he was with the Lakers. He was creaky but he was effective. Not a wasted motion. Chick loved him.

But you don't remember Donnie Freeman (I'm pretty sure) and I fear that may be the case with Haliburton -- a consistent, effective pro but maybe not the game-changer that he's being portrayed to be.

We'll just have to see.

[Sugus]

Come on, man. At least watch a bit more. The talent is eye popping. It's like watching Steph Curry confidence out there with him, with skill to back it up.

He dominates Kira in this matchup:


https://youtu.be/Yww8cmZ4MSc

Kira, with all his speed, can't get past Tyrese when he's covered by him.

Those back-to-back Tyrese vs Kira possessions at 2:11 were very telling. Kira couldn't penetrate at all, both instances tried to just pass the ball, then the first time had his shot blocked (!) by Halliburton, second time has the pass picked by Tyrese's heroics. Give me this guy any day of the week, and twice on Sundays...

I've also been impressed by his rebounding instincts, having watched some more tape on him. It's really interesting, especially considering that's the one area Dejounte is elite at. If we draft Halliburton, I think it's the official nail in the coffin for DJ, or at least DJ-at-PG, unless he has a breakout season next year.

[Dejounte]

Those back-to-back Tyrese vs Kira possessions at 2:11 were very telling. Kira couldn't penetrate at all, both instances tried to just pass the ball, then the first time had his shot blocked (!) by Halliburton, second time has the pass picked by Tyrese's heroics. Give me this guy any day of the week, and twice on Sundays...

I've also been impressed by his rebounding instincts, having watched some more tape on him. It's really interesting, especially considering that's the one area Dejounte is elite at. If we draft Halliburton, I think it's the official nail in the coffin for DJ, or at least DJ-at-PG, unless he has a breakout season next year.

Will DJ ever let it go if he gets supplanted at his role? I think the dude is oozing with ego...

[Dejounte]

CE9effilBK3

Ignore the jersey lmao

This dude has a signature taunt where he holds up his hands in the form of a "call me" sign. Combine that with his big ol smile, this guy is going to be marketable as a star. So much swag.

[The Truth #6]

I don't remember what was the talk at the time but what led to Steph Curry being drafted #7 in his class? It's not like the other players had way better college stats.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=stephen-curry--blake-griffin--james-harden--hasheem-thabeet

Was it because those other six players had "legit level NBA size and athleticism"?

I think Minnesota somehow, idiotically, drafted two different point guards before Curry, which led to him falling.

[Seventyniner]

I think Minnesota somehow, idiotically, drafted two different point guards before Curry, which led to him falling.

Yup, Ricky Rubio (who stayed in Spain for two season) and J:lolnny Flynn, taken at #5 and #6.

[Sugus]

Will DJ ever let it go if he gets supplanted at his role? I think the dude is oozing with ego...

No, he won't - if the Spurs draft Haliburton, IMO, it's a clear sign DJ is getting traded. We couldn't even trot him out as an actual PG in the bubble, with White resorting to handling those duties even though he's the nominal SG, so if the team takes a young, lottery prospect who's miles better as a passer, playmaker, ball-handler, has a much higher BBIQ and is also quite likely a better shooter than DJ is... There's no place for DJ to fit, other than the bench, and we've seen already how he takes to being benched.

The more I think about the team going forward, the less I like the idea of DJ in it. I don't agree with Zeus that the team NEEDS a PG, but I'd be okay with drafting one, if only to be assured that Murray will be on his way out, either this off-season or the next one.

[BWS-1994]

Yup, Ricky Rubio (who stayed in Spain for two season) and J:lolnny Flynn, taken at #5 and #6.

I believe there was a recent article wherein Khan said that Curry didn’t show up in his work out for them.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/JeffGSpursZone/status/1311341326735159297?s=19

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

He reminds me more of ex-Spur Donnie Freeman. You have to really go back to remember Donnie.

Donnie had that same Haliburton/George Hill frame -- kind of tall for a guard (back then), lanky, skinny.

Same smooth but not explosive game. When Donnie left the Spurs to go to the Lakers (just before the NBA/ABA merger) Laker voice Chick Hearn gave him a nickname -- "Fluid Drive."

Donnie was getting older when he was with the Lakers. He was creaky but he was effective. Not a wasted motion. Chick loved him.

But you don't remember Donnie Freeman (I'm pretty sure) and I fear that may be the case with Haliburton -- a consistent, effective pro but maybe not the game-changer that he's being portrayed to be.

We'll just have to see.

A Donnie Freeman reference? Wow. :worthy:

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/swishcultures_/status/1307002924921483265

https://twitter.com/MattBabcock11/status/1311736769063206913

[SpursDynasty85]

https://twitter.com/swishcultures_/status/1307002924921483265

https://twitter.com/MattBabcock11/status/1311736769063206913

Form was ugly but the quickness of that release was ridiculous (curry-like).

[hooperflash]

CE9effilBK3

Ignore the jersey lmao

This dude has a signature taunt where he holds up his hands in the form of a "call me" sign. Combine that with his big ol smile, this guy is going to be marketable as a star. So much swag.

The next Caron Butler?

[Dejounte]

CGjqEbWFDhe

Swaggy T

[R. DeMurre]

I haven't watched full games yet only youtube breakdowns and this guy is too damn skinny. Vassell is wiry, but Haliburton hyper twiggy.

According to this article posted on ESPN yesterday (and others I've seen), Haliburton has been hitting the weights hard and has gained 18 lbs since the end of the college season.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/30139720/scouting-iowa-state-tyrese-haliburton-one-2020-nba-draft-most-underrated-prospects

[ZeusWillJudge]

https://twitter.com/swishcultures_/status/1307002924921483265


I'm hearing that the stories about him bulking up aren't myth, and that he won't make it past the Knicks.

[R. DeMurre]

Have to admit, a few months ago I thought Please God, no one under 6'6" in the draft but Haliburton has changed my mind. Everything I've read about and seen from him convinces me he'd be a great pick-- great attitude, great leadership qualities, consistent winning in different situations, versatility, great advanced stats, sky high BB IQ, recent improvements to his body... He just seems like Spur material, and a backcourt trio of White, Haliburton, & KJ is something I'd be excited to watch, as it would be a return to the ball movement/defense first/Beautiful Game philosophy that has served the Spurs so well, but which they've gotten away from in recent years.

[rjv]

i'd be shocked if he was available at 11 and that's why i've never really focused on him as someone i'd prefer but, in a best case scenario, he'd be a solid get.

[The Truth #6]

Let’s hope others are drinking Precious and Poku Kool Aid so that someone like Halliburton will fall to 11.

[Prime BEEF]

He is a cross between Jason Kidd and Manu Ginobili
I think a skinny Jason Kidd is a good comparison. Would love to trade up to get him.

[Sugus]

Let’s hope others are drinking Precious and Poku Kool Aid so that someone like Halliburton will fall to 11.

Even though I like Precious - hell yeah. Halliburton has "future star" written all over him. The only real question is his shot, tbh, I'm not convinced he'll manage to be an actual good to great shooter with that form in the NBA. But he's shown the flashes at the college level at least, to be sure.

[The Truth #6]

Even though I like Precious - hell yeah. Halliburton has "future star" written all over him. The only real question is his shot, tbh, I'm not convinced he'll manage to be an actual good to great shooter with that form in the NBA. But he's shown the flashes at the college level at least, to be sure.

And I wasn’t taking a dig at Precious or Poku. The only reason we were considering them at 11 was because of the obvious assumption that all the more talented players would already be gone, and so we would have to reach for a project. If projects like precious and poku go early, then yeah, let’s take the better player.

[PhantomDashCam]

He seems like a perfect fit for Atlanta at #6. Can play with and behind Tre. Would pair well with Hunter as off ball defenders. Could be the top East team in a couple of years if players develop as projected.

[R. DeMurre]

I think a skinny Jason Kidd is a good comparison. Would love to trade up to get him.

Later career Kidd hopefully, when he became a better shooter. He had a few years over 40% from three, but for his entire career shot just under 35%. And tbh he very rarely shot a very good 2pt%.

[R. DeMurre]

I looked at six sites tonight-- three said his wingspan is 7' and three said it's 6'8". My guess is the 6'8" is closer to the truth, but either way he's got great length for a PG. Wish he'd done the combine-- it would've been nice to see other things like sprint times and vertical leap. I wouldn't be surprised if Golden State took him.

[Sugus]

Poll: if the Spurs somehow managed a trade with GSW that included the #2 pick coming our way, would you draft Haliburton with it? Let's assume Edwards goes #1 for this scenario.

E: and of course, assuming he wouldn't be there at #11 or the pick goes to Golden State in the deal.

[spurspl]

Poll: if the Spurs somehow managed a trade with GSW that included the #2 pick coming our way, would you draft Haliburton with it? Let's assume Edwards goes #1 for this scenario.

E: and of course, assuming he wouldn't be there at #11 or the pick goes to Golden State in the deal.

i really like hali (imo the best pg in this draft) but 1) we have too many guards and 2) with 2nd pick spurs should take wiseman. if spurs wanna hali then trade murray + sth if needed to get him.

[exstatic]

Poll: if the Spurs somehow managed a trade with GSW that included the #2 pick coming our way, would you draft Haliburton with it? Let's assume Edwards goes #1 for this scenario.

E: and of course, assuming he wouldn't be there at #11 or the pick goes to Golden State in the deal.

Wiseman. Spurs are very good at player development, and Tim working with him could create a monster.

[PhantomDashCam]

Poll: if the Spurs somehow managed a trade with GSW that included the #2 pick coming our way, would you draft Haliburton with it? Let's assume Edwards goes #1 for this scenario.

E: and of course, assuming he wouldn't be there at #11 or the pick goes to Golden State in the deal.

Great Q. I wouldn’t but I could see why a certain team would - GS or Atlanta for example.
I have him ranked as the 4th best PG in this draft - when factoring in an initial 3 year development timeline.

[look_at_g_shred]

Poll: if the Spurs somehow managed a trade with GSW that included the #2 pick coming our way, would you draft Haliburton with it? Let's assume Edwards goes #1 for this scenario.

E: and of course, assuming he wouldn't be there at #11 or the pick goes to Golden State in the deal.
It's Hayes for me

[Prime BEEF]

Poll: if the Spurs somehow managed a trade with GSW that included the #2 pick coming our way, would you draft Haliburton with it? Let's assume Edwards goes #1 for this scenario.

E: and of course, assuming he wouldn't be there at #11 or the pick goes to Golden State in the deal.
That’s a tough question. To me, Halliburton is easily the best PG in this draft. I’m not completely sold on wiseman but he has franchise player potential. I could go either way. Would probably pick wiseman and then try to trade up to get Halliburton.

[The Truth #6]

If Tyrese and others keep rising, I'm still happy to see who falls to 11. The Ringer has Toppin falling to 11, for example. I much prefer rolling the dice with that then taking on Wiggins. I mean, it's tempting to me for a moment, but I don't see it being worthwhile.

[Sugus]

Great Q. I wouldn’t but I could see why a certain team would - GS or Atlanta for example.
I have him ranked as the 4th best PG in this draft - when factoring in an initial 3 year development timeline.

Damn, 4th PG? Who's in front of him, besides Hayes I presume? Consensus seems to be he's top-2 in the draft. And I agree with the majority here that I'd draft Wiseman over Hali. Maybe I should've made the question with the hypothetical that Wiseman goes #1 to make it spicier...

[PhantomDashCam]

Damn, 4th PG? Who's in front of him, besides Hayes I presume? Consensus seems to be he's top-2 in the draft. And I agree with the majority here that I'd draft Wiseman over Hali. Maybe I should've made the question with the hypothetical that Wiseman goes #1 to make it spicier...

I believe to be a top tier PG in todays NBA, one of the key things you have to be able to do is beat your initial man off the dribble - either to score or pass - without the aid of a pick.
Be it either through athletic gifts - Kira Lewis, Creative handles and footwork - Killian Hayes, or a combination of both - LaMelo Ball.
If you had to have a 4th - it would be “out of the gym” range but even that is predicated on these initial 3 categories.

Now I would argue that Haliburton has traits of all 3 (4) types but not at an elite enough level to be successful consistently.
Not knocking Haliburton though because he does a lot of things well and think he will have a solid career.

I think those other 3 guys could be stars though if certain things go their way. (With LaMelo - I feel it’s going to take a lot though, to be fair.) Just don’t see Haliburton that way.

[Dejounte]

Watch hardwood hoops scouting report on Lamelo. The dude is garbage

[rankingtear]

Not that high on Hali, he is a safe pick as a glue not a lead guard and we already have that player in White. He lacks the form for pullups and blow by speed. Don't know how effective he would be as a lead without the scoring guard skills package. I would take Deni or Wiseman before Hali.

[PhantomDashCam]

Watch hardwood hoops scouting report on Lamelo. The dude is garbage

He may very well suck and probs. next to “Poku” has the greatest chance of busting as anybody in the lottery. I’m not high on him because the risk is too high.

[Dhbsr555]

Ain’t no way in hell we drafting A pg

[R. DeMurre]

I believe to be a top tier PG in todays NBA, one of the key things you have to be able to do is beat your initial man off the dribble - either to score or pass - without the aid of a pick.
Be it either through athletic gifts - Kira Lewis, Creative handles and footwork - Killian Hayes, or a combination of both - LaMelo Ball.
If you had to have a 4th - it would be “out of the gym” range but even that is predicated on these initial 3 categories.

Now I would argue that Haliburton has traits of all 3 (4) types but not at an elite enough level to be successful consistently.
Not knocking Haliburton though because he does a lot of things well and think he will have a solid career.

I think those other 3 guys could be stars though if certain things go their way. (With LaMelo - I feel it’s going to take a lot though, to be fair.) Just don’t see Haliburton that way.

Nice analysis... Do you view Haliburton as a guy who could be a 2nd tier PG like Jrue Holiday or Mike Conley, or would you knock him down to third tier? Do you think he can be better than Dejounte?

[The Truth #6]

I agree with some of this critique of Halliburton. I think his floor is solid, but his ceiling does have questions. Now, what player doesn’t have questions in this draft? That’s the rub. At 11 he still should be good value, but might not be our greatest need.

[PhantomDashCam]

Nice analysis... Do you view Haliburton as a guy who could be a 2nd tier PG like Jrue Holiday or Mike Conley, or would you knock him down to third tier? Do you think he can be better than Dejounte?
I think Rob’s video says it more eloquently than I could.

https://youtu.be/yr1dlb4wALA
I think he can be better than Dejounte, especially with right team around him.
I actually think Dejounte’s best position is a SG too with occasional playmaking responsibilities.

[Dhbsr555]

Unless we trade Murray there’s no point in getting a pg

[ZeusWillJudge]

Poll: if the Spurs somehow managed a trade with GSW that included the #2 pick coming our way, would you draft Haliburton with it? Let's assume Edwards goes #1 for this scenario.

E: and of course, assuming he wouldn't be there at #11 or the pick goes to Golden State in the deal.



Not a chance - and I like Haliburton. I thought he might be a good value at 11, and I thought that was a bit of a reach. Now most of the mocks have moved him up a good bit higher than that. But 2 is out of the question.

He's not going to be a "first tier" PG who blows past his first defender. He's not as slow as some people are saying, but he's not elite. But he would help keep the offense from stagnating, and avoid some of those dead spots that kept last year's team going uphill so much of the time.

He would be a good PG to have on the floor with DDR. If the team isn't going to keep DDR, it changes the math. He's a good PG in the PnR. He wouldn't be a good PG for D'Antoni ball.

If you're going to trade up to 2, you would have to try and get someone more dynamic than Haliburton. If you don't think there's anyone more dynamic than him in the draft, you don't trade up to 2.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I had to laugh. Nbadraftroom.com described Haliburton as a rich man’s Dejounte Murray.

[Dejounte]

Didn't realize the Spurs looked at Nesmith toohttps://twitter.com/TheTyJager/status/1324872787090169858?s=19

[spurspl]

I had to laugh. Nbadraftroom.com described Haliburton as a rich man’s Dejounte Murray.

not surprised, compare his and djm's college stats. Hali was better in every field (even in steals). Plus he has much better court vision and plays smarter than djm.

[R. DeMurre]

I had to laugh. Nbadraftroom.com described Haliburton as a rich man’s Dejounte Murray.


They call Wiseman "David Robinson lite," which if true would be worthwhile. They call Obi Toppin a "bouncy Drew Gooden."

[look_at_g_shred]

They call Wiseman "David Robinson lite," which if true would be worthwhile. They call Obi Toppin a "bouncy Drew Gooden."
Bro, the vomit i just spewed.

[K...]

The spurs happily took a washed up gooden in 2009. Don't tempt them with the chance to get a rookie gooden clone.

[R. DeMurre]

They call Wiseman "David Robinson lite," which if true would be worthwhile. They call Obi Toppin a "bouncy Drew Gooden."[/QUOTE]
Bro, the vomit i just spewed.

:lol

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/971852605390336000/uA0TeMUO_normal.jpg (https://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN) Jeff McDonald (https://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN) (https://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN) @JMcDonald_SAEN (https://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN)





Iowa State's Tyrese Haliburton confirms he had a pre-draft interview with the Spurs, but did not work out for them.
12:28pm · 11 Nov 2020 (https://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN/status/1326592674682564609) · Twitter Web App (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

[R. DeMurre]

I see Haliburton as another D White, but younger and with a higher ceiling. A White/Haliburton/KJ trio looks amazing to me-- all defenders, all shooters, all high IQ guys. There would be no blinds spots or glaring weaknesses to cover up. Add one star Big or combo Forward to that in the future, and the Spurs are back in business.

[Dejounte]

The amount of Hollywood swag this team would have if we draft this guy. That's the primary reason I'm intrigued with Tyrese

[look_at_g_shred]

The amount of Hollywood swag this team would have if we draft this guy. That's the primary reason I'm intrigued with Tyrese
Tyrese in that Fiesta Jersey (drool emoji)

[rjv]

I see Haliburton as another D White, but younger and with a higher ceiling. A White/Haliburton/KJ trio looks amazing to me-- all defenders, all shooters, all high IQ guys. There would be no blinds spots or glaring weaknesses to cover up. Add one star Big or combo Forward to that in the future, and the Spurs are back in business.

ESPN even had D White as the NBA player physical comparison to Haliburton.

[spurspl]

I see Haliburton as another D White, but younger and with a higher ceiling. A White/Haliburton/KJ trio looks amazing to me-- all defenders, all shooters, all high IQ guys. There would be no blinds spots or glaring weaknesses to cover up. Add one star Big or combo Forward to that in the future, and the Spurs are back in business.

totally agree, id love to trade djm for hali and with 11th pick draft a big like jalen smith.

[rankingtear]

I see Haliburton as another D White, but younger and with a higher ceiling. A White/Haliburton/KJ trio looks amazing to me-- all defenders, all shooters, all high IQ guys. There would be no blinds spots or glaring weaknesses to cover up. Add one star Big or combo Forward to that in the future, and the Spurs are back in business.

No elite downhill player easier to gameplan against. You said it yourself they are the same player, same weakness in bending defenses.

[Sugus]

Haliburton cooking tonight. Kings actually looking pretty dangerous right now, their defense is smothering Denver.

[R. DeMurre]

Haliburton cooking tonight. Kings actually looking pretty dangerous right now, their defense is smothering Denver.

I was just about to post the same. Haliburton looked so good. Richaun Holmes was surprisingly good too, going against Jokic and posting a very efficient 20 pts (10 for 13), 5 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 steals, and a block. Jokic had a quadruple double, but unfortunately one of those was his 10 turnovers. Holmes was quietly one of Sacramento's best players last year, and despite most of the media coverage going to Fox, Hield, and Bagley, it was Holmes and Bjelica who led the team in Win Shares... and they're both free agents after this season.

[Dejounte]

Haliburton cooking tonight. Kings actually looking pretty dangerous right now, their defense is smothering Denver.

Sad the Spurs didn't take him. Only way I see Devin beating him in the long run is to have outstanding defense. Tyrese on offense is just out-of-this-world, Steph Curry good. Devin can switch on small forwards a little bit, so I guess that's the positive he brings over Tyrese.

[paperboy77]

Sad the Spurs didn't take him. Only way I see Devin beating him in the long run is to have outstanding defense. Tyrese on offense is just out-of-this-world, Steph Curry good. Devin can switch on small forwards a little bit, so I guess that's the positive he brings over Tyrese.

Didn’t watch the game but he only had 13 points. Looks like a role player having a good game to me. Steph Curry good? Steph good? I’ll be sure to catch the Kings next game. Hope your right tho. I love seeing the birth of the next superstars. Love the NBA.

[playblair]

playblair (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=34893) was right again.......... playblair (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=34893) was ridiculed........... playblair (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=34893) is the best talent scout on this site
timvp & all the other draft experts on this site dont watch college basketball they make prediconts based on youtube videos & draftexpress...............

[PhantomDashCam]

Sad the Spurs didn't take him. Only way I see Devin beating him in the long run is to have outstanding defense. Tyrese on offense is just out-of-this-world, Steph Curry good. Devin can switch on small forwards a little bit, so I guess that's the positive he brings over Tyrese.


Didn’t watch the game but he only had 13 points. Looks like a role player having a good game to me. Steph Curry good? Steph good? I’ll be sure to catch the Kings next game. Hope your right tho. I love seeing the birth of the next superstars. Love the NBA.

Halibuton looking great so far. He is such a smart player and makes terrific reads off screens and broken plays.
Will be interested to see how he goes when teams start to game plan against him. He also has been sharing the court a lot with arguably the fastest player in the league and one of its top shooters. This allows him to focus on being an ancillary playmaker and opportunistic shooter/scorer which is right in his wheelhouse.

[Dejounte]

Didn’t watch the game but he only had 13 points. Looks like a role player having a good game to me. Steph Curry good? Steph good? I’ll be sure to catch the Kings next game. Hope your right tho. I love seeing the birth of the next superstars. Love the NBA.

Moreso Steph's passing instinct, not his shooting (yet). Very fun player to watch.

[Mr. Body]

Kings got this right after blowing the Doncic pick. Vassell is going to be great, too.

[Sugus]

I was just about to post the same. Haliburton looked so good. Richaun Holmes was surprisingly good too, going against Jokic and posting a very efficient 20 pts (10 for 13), 5 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 steals, and a block. Jokic had a quadruple double, but unfortunately one of those was his 10 turnovers. Holmes was quietly one of Sacramento's best players last year, and despite most of the media coverage going to Fox, Hield, and Bagley, it was Holmes and Bjelica who led the team in Win Shares... and they're both free agents after this season.

Yeah, I was very surprised to see the eternally bad Kings finally putting together a competent roster, and giving the Nuggets so much trouble. At the end of the 4th, it really looked like Denver couldn't penetrate into the paint at all and get their shots off comfortably, whilst the Kings were having no issue scoring through the Nugs' defense. I'd love to take Bjelica off their team, tbh, didn't know he was a FA. And Haliburton as well.... I'll be eternally rooting for the kid, knowing we could've taken him. That 30ft three at the end is pure swagger, the star kind.

[Sugus]

Didn’t watch the game but he only had 13 points. Looks like a role player having a good game to me. Steph Curry good? Steph good? I’ll be sure to catch the Kings next game. Hope your right tho. I love seeing the birth of the next superstars. Love the NBA.

Definitely not your regular "roleplayer having a good game". Watch his highlights at least. Dude was making insane reads, getting trapped and passing out of doubles, and launching contested threes at will. Incredible confidence, vision, and court awareness, especially for a rookie. His passing, as Dejounte said, for sure could be (I don't think he's there quite yet) Steph level, or even a bit above it, Jokic-level. That's the kind of ceiling he has as a passer. I still don't fully trust his shot, looks really awkward, but it certainly looks like it's going in and he doesn't have any trouble getting it off against NBA-level defense. The Nuggets were outmatched yesterday and Haliburton was a big reason why.

[Chinook]

No real dog in the race, but I thought the book on Haliburton was that he'd actually come out of the gate fast if he was going to translate at all. He seemed as NBA ready as he was ever going to be. You can argue the same is true of Vassell, but I don't know that SA thought that. I do wish the Spurs could've leveraged teams' interest in Haliburton and moved down while still snagging a wing later on. A random extra first could've been really nice down the line. Haven't given up on Vassell or anything, but Walker and Johnson playing well and White re-upping means the team could afford to take the hit to grab an asset.

[Dverde]

I think the Spurs knew there was a lot of good PG prospects for the second round. I’m glad they passed on him for Vassell. That Precious kid is the one that might have been a better pick. He seems like a great young big for our fast paced offense.

[Dejounte]

I think the Spurs knew there was a lot of good PG prospects for the second round. I’m glad they passed on him for Vassell. That Precious kid is the one that might have been a better pick. He seems like a great young big for our fast paced offense.

Precious would not be a bad pick at all knowing what we know now (Keldon at PF looking like it works). *Skillful* shooting from the C position isn't critical with the way we're playing, we just need some big man who's attentive and can switch easily on smalls.

[exstatic]

Moreso Steph's passing instinct, not his shooting (yet). Very fun player to watch.

He’ll never match Stephs shooting with that janky hitch in his shot. He’ll get some unguarded long shots in the RS, but in the playoffs, when shit speeds up, that shit will get contested and sent back.

[exstatic]

No real dog in the race, but I thought the book on Haliburton was that he'd actually come out of the gate fast if he was going to translate at all. He seemed as NBA ready as he was ever going to be. You can argue the same is true of Vassell, but I don't know that SA thought that. I do wish the Spurs could've leveraged teams' interest in Haliburton and moved down while still snagging a wing later on. A random extra first could've been really nice down the line. Haven't given up on Vassell or anything, but Walker and Johnson playing well and White re-upping means the team could afford to take the hit to grab an asset.

How do you know they didn’t try? They ran over the clock, visually, but probably just got the pick in, on draft night.

[Chinook]

How do you know they didn’t try? They ran over the clock, visually, but probably just got the pick in, on draft night.

RC said teams wanted to move up but SA felt like they didn't get the value they needed to move. We don't know what was offered, but there's a decent reason to believe teams were willing to offer a first given Haliburton's acclaim and the fact that multiple teams were reported to be talking to SA. Maybe everyone was being cheap? Maybe the only teams willing to give up a first were at the end of the round? Dunno.

You don't have to sell me on the idea that SA did what they thought was best for them. They always do that. But you could've made an argument for like five players drafted after Vassell to be the guy at 11. I think there's a good chance that there was a trade offered that if taken and used correctly would've led to a better outcome. That's not shade of Devin at all. Hell, the Spurs might've been able to move down and draft him anyway had there'd been a run on PGs set off by the Haliburton trade. Like maybe it goes Haliburton, Neismith, Maxey from 11-13 with Boston trading 26 or 30. I don't know that any team before Dallas was an obvious spot for Vassell after the Spurs.

[Seventyniner]

How do you know they didn’t try? They ran over the clock, visually, but probably just got the pick in, on draft night.

I doubt we will ever truly know. The Spurs justifiably run a tight ship.

[rjv]

i'm not going to knee-jerk react to the first 5 games of a rookie's career and, more importantly, i don't know that the PG was where the spurs were looking to go or need the most help. also, haliburton (like brandon clarke was last season) is going to have a better start out of the gate because of his higher floor.

[Sugus]

i'm not going to knee-jerk react to the first 5 games of a rookie's career and, more importantly, i don't know that the PG was where the spurs were looking to go or need the most help. also, haliburton (like brandon clarke was last season) is going to have a better start out of the gate because of his higher floor.

Tbh, since before the draft went down, I've always thought Haliburton was high floor, but also high ceiling. He might never realize his potential as a star, and his shot needs a bit of fixing, but his ceiling isn't low at all, unlike Clarke's. That elite vision, court awareness, passing, and IQ will always allow him to grow his game - he's a bit undersized is the knack on him, but the other knock (his speed on the first step) looked fine to me from what I saw pre-draft, and yesterday. We'll see in the playoffs I guess (well, considering the Kings' drought, we might have to wait for a while to see...), but I'd say his ceiling is positively above Clarke's, who'll likely always be a dependent role player.

Hurts to say, and way, way too early, I know - but I don't see Vassell being the better player than Haliburton when it's all said and done. Here's to him proving me wrong.

[rjv]

Tbh, since before the draft went down, I've always thought Haliburton was high floor, but also high ceiling. He might never realize his potential as a star, and his shot needs a bit of fixing, but his ceiling isn't low at all, unlike Clarke's. That elite vision, court awareness, passing, and IQ will always allow him to grow his game - he's a bit undersized is the knack on him, but the other knock (his speed on the first step) looked fine to me from what I saw pre-draft, and yesterday. We'll see in the playoffs I guess (well, considering the Kings' drought, we might have to wait for a while to see...), but I'd say his ceiling is positively above Clarke's, who'll likely always be a dependent role player.

Hurts to say, and way, way too early, I know - but I don't see Vassell being the better player than Haliburton when it's all said and done. Here's to him proving me wrong.

and i'd be okay with haliburton being the better player when it's all said and done if it turns out that the spurs are fine at that position or positions (PG and/or SG); in other words, if vassell turns out to be more important to the spurs even if he is the lesser player than haliburton. it's also hard to tell with SA because of how long it takes them to groom players. there's a good chance that haliburton may have not had anywhere near as many minutes on the floor as he has had with the kings, even with white out for now.

[Atl Spur]

Lol.......you guys! Give it some time......the Keldon J thing has taught you nothing I see :)

[paperboy77]

Definitely not your regular "roleplayer having a good game". Watch his highlights at least. Dude was making insane reads, getting trapped and passing out of doubles, and launching contested threes at will. Incredible confidence, vision, and court awareness, especially for a rookie. His passing, as Dejounte said, for sure could be (I don't think he's there quite yet) Steph level, or even a bit above it, Jokic-level. That's the kind of ceiling he has as a passer. I still don't fully trust his shot, looks really awkward, but it certainly looks like it's going in and he doesn't have any trouble getting it off against NBA-level defense. The Nuggets were outmatched yesterday and Haliburton was a big reason why.


Hope the guy does well. Wonder why he would fall that far in the draft tho. As for highlights.. everyone looks good in those.

[John B]

Lol.......you guys! Give it some time......the Keldon J thing has taught you nothing I see :)
Keldon/Vassell will be a beast.

[objective]

Doubt he would look as good on the Spurs.

First, there's no athletic rim runners for him to get assists with. Poeltl can't even be counted on to finish strong and is not a very good roll man. Aldridge and Gay sure aren't getting to the rim in the pick and roll either. So Holmes and Bagley etc are making Haliburton look better.

Second, he wouldn't have the ball as much. Considering the Spurs extended White means they weren't looking to trade him and get a replacement. After White you have Murray who handles the ball, and of course DeRozan. On top of that there's Gay who when he gets a rebound is always in danger of refusing to give the ball up and insists on being Point Rudy.

But good for him, he's looking better than I would have thought.

[TD 21]

Doubt he would look as good on the Spurs.

First, there's no athletic rim runners for him to get assists with. Poeltl can't even be counted on to finish strong and is not a very good roll man. Aldridge and Gay sure aren't getting to the rim in the pick and roll either. So Holmes and Bagley etc are making Haliburton look better.

Second, he wouldn't have the ball as much. Considering the Spurs extended White means they weren't looking to trade him and get a replacement. After White you have Murray who handles the ball, and of course DeRozan. On top of that there's Gay who when he gets a rebound is always in danger of refusing to give the ball up and insists on being Point Rudy.

But good for him, he's looking better than I would have thought.

True, but also the shortsighted view.

You don't draft at #11 worried about the now, especially with a team in transition that's lacking a centerpiece. The back court logjam could have been sorted out either at the draft or in due time.

It'll inevitably be framed as Haliburton v Vassell, but it was more like Haliburton and whatever they could have conceivably turned Murray into (which is unclear) v Murray and Vassell.

They're either betting the latter combination will be better, didn't like what Murray could fetch and/or were unwilling to swallow their pride and trade a player they've put a lot of time and resources into developing without seeing whether he makes a leap in the most pivotal season of his career.

[SPURSCHAMP]

dude looked legit tonight, some Kings fans already think he's their second best player, word is he warned teams he wanted to be drafted by the Kings?

[rankingtear]

Haliburton looking like Rookie of the Year material. According to Givony the Haliburton was selective with who to give his medicals and telling teams to not draft him, maybe we are one of those teams. Dallas wanted him bad and probably the team we are negotiating with before we took Devin.

[Prime BEEF]

dude looked legit tonight, some Kings fans already think he's their second best player, word is he warned teams he wanted to be drafted by the Kings?
Why would he want to go to Sacramento ? That doesn’t make any sense

[exstatic]

Why would he want to go to Sacramento ? That doesn’t make any sense

No one in his way. Immediate heavy playing time. He establishes his credentials, and then at 24-25 hits the open market.

[rankingtear]

Why would he want to go to Sacramento ? That doesn’t make any sense

He's playing a lot of minutes and closing for them so it does makes sense.

[jjspur]

Looks like this draft had some decent players in it after all !

[timvp]

playblair (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=34893) was right again.......... playblair (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=34893) was ridiculed........... playblair (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=34893) is the best talent scout on this site
timvp & all the other draft experts on this site dont watch college basketball they make prediconts based on youtube videos & draftexpress...............

This would make more sense if Haliburton wasn't the top player on my Big Board when it was the Spurs turn to draft, tbh.

For the record, Haliburton looks damn good. It looks like everything translated to the NBA level already and his basketball IQ is shining. Last night, he was the best player on the court in the fourth quarter.

Obviously it's way to early to say Haliburton > Vassell. The worries about Vassell's jumper seem to be overblown and his team-defense excellence seems to have translated to the NBA. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out over the years.

As of right now, if teams could redo the draft, the top two picks would be Ball and Haliburton. Edwards has shown enough scoring potential that he'd probably be number three. Vassell, who was arguably the best rookie in preseason, would probably be pushing top five along with Wiseman and Patrick Williams.

[Dejounte]

This would make more sense if Haliburton wasn't the top player on my Big Board when it was the Spurs turn to draft, tbh.

For the record, Haliburton looks damn good. It looks like everything translated to the NBA level already and his basketball IQ is shining. Last night, he was the best player on the court in the fourth quarter.

Obviously it's way to early to say Haliburton > Vassell. The worries about Vassell's jumper seem to be overblown and his team-defense excellence seems to have translated to the NBA. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out over the years.

As of right now, if teams could redo the draft, the top two picks would be Ball and Haliburton. Edwards has shown enough scoring potential that he'd probably be number three. Vassell, who was arguably the best rookie in preseason, would probably be pushing top five along with Wiseman and Patrick Williams.

Ball is garbage and is doing nothing impressive on a weak team.

Haliburton was consistently on my tier 1 group of players, along with Wiseman and Deni.

I'm not upset the Spurs didn't pick him, but I am sad that he's not a Spur because he's so damn fun to watch.

[paperboy77]

Weird thing to notice but kinda moves around like spud web. Not the hops or the tiny size just movement. Seems to bounce off people.

[timvp]

Ball is garbage and is doing nothing impressive on a weak team.

Bruh, Ball's per-40 numbers are >20/8/8, his assist-to-turnover ration is >2 and he's already a high-volume three-point shooter. Add in he's a year and a half younger than Haliburton and the "Ball is garbage" bandwagon does not look like a wise bandwagon to tie yourself to, tbh.

[Seventyniner]

How would the Spurs' rotation look with Haliburton in place of Vassell?

[Mugen]

How's Haliburton defensively? I like Vassell's upside in that regard tbh.

[timvp]

How would the Spurs' rotation look with Haliburton in place of Vassell?

Exactly the same, most likely. Both Vassell and Haliburton are primarily defending shooting guards at this point in their career. Main difference would be Mills wouldn't be handling the ball as much as he is right now.

Once you add White to the equation, that's when things wouldn't be as clear. Vassell can slide up to SF but Haliburton can't.

[Dejounte]

Bruh, Ball's per-40 numbers are >20/8/8, his assist-to-turnover ration is >2 and he's already a high-volume three-point shooter. Add in he's a year and a half younger than Haliburton and the "Ball is garbage" bandwagon does not look like a wise bandwagon to tie yourself to, tbh.

I hate per 36's or 40's... I'll tie myself to this bandwagon. Let's check back in a couple years.

[timvp]

How's Haliburton defensively? I like Vassell's upside in that regard tbh.

Yeah, Vassell's defensive upside is much higher than Haliburton's. Haliburton is a good help defender but his body is unlikely to ever allow him to be a good individual defender. Vassell has a chance to be a great help defender (like top five in the league great) and a really good individual defender.

Haliburton's offensive upside is higher than Vassell's in all aspects other than possibly as an isolation scorer. Vassell, due to his high release, might have higher upside as a three-point shooter ... but Haliburton has more range so it's probably close to even.

[timvp]

I'll tie myself to this bandwagon.

Good luck, tbh.

[itzsoweezee]

I'm glad haliburton ended up on a team that will actually play him meaningful minutes.

[Dejounte]

Good luck, tbh.

Jason Williams/ (better version) Rafer "Skip to my Lou" Alston ceiling for LaMelo, IMO

[timvp]

Jason Williams/ Rafer "Skip to my Lou" Alston ceiling for LaMelo, IMO

Noted, although having a Jason Williams-esque career wouldn't be too shabby, even for a No. 3 pick.

[Mugen]

Yeah, Vassell's defensive upside is much higher than Haliburton's. Haliburton is a good help defender but his body is unlikely to ever allow him to be a good individual defender. Vassell has a chance to be a great help defender (like top five in the league great) and a really good individual defender.

Haliburton's offensive upside is higher than Vassell's in all aspects other than possibly as an isolation scorer. Vassell, due to his high release, might have higher upside as a three-point shooter ... but Haliburton has more range so it's probably close to even.

Good to know, thanks for the scouting report. Wonder if the Spurs could have squeezed an extra asset by trading down and still getting DV. Doubt it though, looking at the big board and I'd say there's no way he was falling past Boston at 14.

Not losing sleep over it tbh, Vassell seems to be a solid pick and happy he's gonna get some actual playing time until at least White is back (and not just buried in Austin).

[**BUSTA**]

really wanted haliburton


should have tried to trade down to 14 with boston. still might have gotten vassell.

I like Vassell , but I like Haliburton more.

What the Spurs need are smart players that can make fast , competent decisions . That's what haliburton does.
Hali knows where to be or where to get to when he doesn't have the ball. He knows what to do with the ball when he has it.
He knows what his teammates should be doing and anticipates what opponents are doing. He sees the whole picture .
Haliburton processes all that information quickly and makes fast, competent decisions.

He does the same on defense. He knows where he has to be and where his teammates should be. he sees the whole picture on defense
and is able to anticipate what opponents are going to do and process the information quickly and disrupt their offense.

Watching the kings , it looks like everything runs more smoothly when he is on the court. They are fun to watch. I wish the Spurs had Hali and holmes. Hali doesn't look like a rookie to me. He's vocal, he communicates, he looks polished and composed. I don't know if
he will be an allstar, but I think he is special.

My only solace is that he is probably on the right team. I wouldn't want to watch pop mess with Hali's mind( which is Hali's greatest asset)
'

[rankingtear]

Good to know, thanks for the scouting report. Wonder if the Spurs could have squeezed an extra asset by trading down and still getting DV. Doubt it though, looking at the big board and I'd say there's no way he was falling past Boston at 14.

Not losing sleep over it tbh, Vassell seems to be a solid pick and happy he's gonna get some actual playing time until at least White is back (and not just buried in Austin).

Dallas was offering 18,31 and a pick or a player. If it is a pick the earliest is a 2025 one.

[Uriel]

Vassell is a better fit on this current roster, as he brings a skill set the teams sorely needs. Haliburton would show significant overlap with Derrick White.