Who is SpursTalk's favorite 2020 draft prospect heading into September?

[Dejounte]

Limiting choices to players likely to be there at 11th and have received some type of love from posters in threads.

Right now, I personally am going with Aaron Nesmith, though it's likely to change on a semi-monthly basis.

[Collins21]

Limiting choices to players likely to be there at 11th and have received some type of love from posters in threads.

Right now, I personally am going with Aaron Nesmith, though it's likely to change on a semi-monthly basis.

Nesmith by a mile for me.

[Nivek_ogre]

I voted Nesmith but if Killian Hayes drops then I would hope the Spurs take him.

[spurspl]

my fav no trade realistic duo:

precious/nwora
neismith/reed
neismith/tillie

[Nivek_ogre]

Where does poku look like he may fall? Second round?

[Dejounte]

Where does poku look like he may fall? Second round?

Hard to tell. You don't really know anything until about a month before the draft. That's when you start to hear which teams are rumored to be interested in so and so prospects. You also get reports of which players have worked out for who. For example, last year on social media/news we caught that the following players worked out for the Spurs: Isaiah Roby, Sekou, Eric Paschall, KZ Okpala (I believe), Obi Toppin, Luka Samanic

[r0drig0lac]

Poku/Williams/Neismith/Saddiq

[Nivek_ogre]

Hard to tell. You don't really know anything until about a month before the draft. That's when you start to hear which teams are rumored to be interested in so and so prospects. You also get reports of which players have worked out for who. For example, last year on social media/news we caught that the following players worked out for the Spurs: Isaiah Roby, Sekou, Eric Paschall, KZ Okpala (I believe), Obi Toppin, Luka Samanic

He has the potential to be a bust but also the potential to make a team regret passing him up.

[Dejounte]

Poku/Williams/Neismith/Saddiq

Gotta vote for one ;)

[r0drig0lac]

Gotta vote for one ;)

Poku

[Kurgan]

When's the last time Spurs drafted somebody that was unanimously liked by the entire fanbase. Kawhi? I don't remember anyone groaning or complaining about him in the summer of 2011.

[Dejounte]

When's the last time Spurs drafted somebody that was unanimously liked by the entire fanbase. Kawhi? I don't remember anyone groaning or complaining about him in the summer of 2011.

Never. We never had a lottery pick and being in the lottery narrows down the field a bit than selecting at the end of the 1st round where it's tougher to gauge which players will be there. We had no idea we would be trading up for Kawhi, so no one had any negative feelings.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Voted Isaiah over Prec. But really im undecided.

[dbestpro]

After looking at more video I think I have changed my mind to Saddiq Bey. He has good size, plays tough defense and but what i like most of all is he has a quick release on the three point shot that everyone else will still have to be taught.

[DAF86]

1-Pokusevski
2-Williams
3-Nesmith (injury concerns are big though)
4-Bey
5-Vassell

[joeyjfive]

It’s definitely Poku guessing from the thread which means the Spurs will definitely not select him.

[DAF86]

Where does poku look like he may fall? Second round?

Very unlikely that he drops to the second round, unless his combine numbers really underwhelm. Right now his most likely position is anywhere from 10 to 20.

[exstatic]

Where does poku look like he may fall? Second round?

TaT has him at #10 on their big board, and have Dallas selecting him at #17 in their mock.

[exstatic]

It’s definitely Poku guessing from the thread which means the Spurs will definitely not select him.

:lol There are literally two posters who think the Spurs would or could select him.

[Dejounte]

It’s definitely Poku guessing from the thread which means the Spurs will definitely not select him.

Looks like the Spurs are selecting Tyler Bey lmfao

[Duncan2177]

1.Killian Hayes
2.Precious Achiuwa
3.Patrick Williams
4.Devin Vassell
5.Aaron Nesmith

[tim_duncan_fan]

Looking at Precious tape again, dude just has potential for crazy versatility. Him running with Lonnie, Keldon, and White would be insane. He can LEAD the fast break.

Sheesh.


He's going to be an effective roleplayer that could become an allstar if he is invested in himself while his team helps him.

Watch this:


https://youtu.be/HHENlLb4fvo

[BackHome]

Be happy with any of these kids:

* Seddiq Bey - SF 6’8 Wing 6’10
* Jalen Smith PF 6’10 Wing 7’1
* Precious Achiuwa C/PF 6’9 Wing 7’2
* Patrick Williams SF/PF 6’8 Wing 6’11
* Aleksej Pokusevski C/PF 7’0 Wing 7’3

[RD2191]

Doesn't matter, Pop wont play them until they're 40.

[talkspurs]

After looking at more video I think I have changed my mind to Saddiq Bey. He has good size, plays tough defense and but what i like most of all is he has a quick release on the three point shot that everyone else will still have to be taught.

I voted for Bey did you vote for someone else as he only has one vote?

[daslicer]

Doesn't matter, Pop wont play them until they're 40.

Pop won't play them unless they're a midget.

[Sugus]

Looking at Precious tape again, dude just has potential for crazy versatility. Him running with Lonnie, Keldon, and White would be insane. He can LEAD the fast break.

Sheesh.


He's going to be an effective roleplayer that could become an allstar if he is invested in himself while his team helps him.

Watch this:


https://youtu.be/HHENlLb4fvo

Exactly. That's what I love the most about Precious, beyond any of his other athleticism related skills - he's a real ball handler and can grab and go in the open court. The Spurs lack a player like this SO MUCH it's insane. Last two seasons, we have been playing almost every single possession in half-court sets, which makes the game slower, overcomplicates things, doesn't give you easy scoring opportunities and always has you playing against a set defense. The Spurs' transition game has been close to non-existant, imo, and when you watch other teams play in the fast break it really shows you how much easier it makes the game for yourself if you maximize those opportunities. Precious, again IMO, is just that guy, he has the dog mentality in him to just go out and get it, can read the court and make the outlet pass to a shooter, or take it to the rim and finish strong.

The best thing about having someone like Precious out there is the versatility. He can be the ball-handler on the break, or the finisher, which allows the rest of our guys to expand their games as well. Imagine Precious lobbing it up for Keldon or Lonnie on the break, then them returning the favor, the defensive intensity that turns into scoring opportunities... I'm salivating already. Please, basketball gods, please...

[Sugus]

Current list of favorite prospects.

1. Precious Achiuwa

2. Aleksej Pokusevekski
3. Patrick Williams
4. Aaron Neismith
5. Isaiah Stewart

Precious is that guy to me, as most posters here already know. I can't help but be drawn to Poku's upside, even if it's risky. PatWill is a safer (and more likely, imo) pick but I'm not so enamored with his upside. Neismith is solid if the medicals check out. Stewart is the dark horse pick, I quite like him.

Of course, if a prospect like Toppin/Avdija/Hayes falls down, you take BPA always.

[Dejounte]

This poll is almost dead freaking even!

[Dancelot]

When's the last time Spurs drafted somebody that was unanimously liked by the entire fanbase. Kawhi? I don't remember anyone groaning or complaining about him in the summer of 2011.
There were plenty of butthurt people about trading George Hill for him

[hooperflash]

This poll is almost dead freaking even!
Which is a good thing, a lot of talent could still be available at Pick 11

[duncan2150]

Okongwu but probably out of REACH
Achiuwa
Okoro
Patrick Williams
Jalen smith

[DAF86]

Achiuwa, Williams, Poku and Nesmith with 8. The race is tighter than the asses I like to tap. :lol

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Achiuwa, Williams, Poku and Nesmith with 8. The race is tighter than the asses I like to tap. :lol

:corn:

[DAF86]

Dejounte you should have put Vassell instead of Tyler, imho.

[Dejounte]

Dejounte you should have put Vassell instead of Tyler, imho.

F u c k Vassell. Lmfao

[RC_Drunkford]

I have no favorite. Just don't draft a guard. I think the talent level is really even in this draft. Hard to say who will improve significantly and who won't

[dbestpro]

I voted for Bey did you vote for someone else as he only has one vote?

Yeah, I did but then went back and looked at the tape and Bey with that quick release on the 3 is NBA ready. Mostly everyone else discussed is a project.

[Dejounte]

Looks like we are close to the end of this poll? Not seeing many more voters.

Current rankings (58 participants):

1. Aaron Nesmith
2. Precious Achuiwa
3. Patrick Williams
4. Aleksej Pokusevski
5. Jalen Smith

Will start another one by end of September. Let's see if anything changes!

[Brazil]

Looks like we are close to the end of this poll? Not seeing many more voters.

Current rankings (58 participants):

1. Aaron Nesmith
2. Precious Achuiwa
3. Patrick Williams
4. Aleksej Pokusevski
5. Jalen Smith

Will start another one by end of September. Let's see if anything changes!

voted for precious.. its a tie with Aaron

a dude named precious.. we cannot pass on him

[Dejounte]

voted for precious.. its a tie with Aaron

a dude named precious.. we cannot pass on him

Yes.... that's absolutely why we should vote for him... His name will bring balance to all... He is the chosen one

[JuneJive]

Okoro should be mentioned more.

[Drom John]

Haliburton

[look_at_g_shred]

I voted for my guy Pat, but Precious would be dope too! I'm also starting to enjoy the thought of Kira Lewis Jr.

[Dennis the Menace]

Precious has crazy ceiling potential

[Arcadian]

I don't have one because I don't know who any of them are.

[tim_duncan_fan]

A mod can really change my vote to Precious tbh lol

[John B]

I like Devin Vassell, but since he's not in the list, will put Precious Achiuwa. Man we might get that 3-D we've been looking for. And Athletic big at 41, maybe Vernon Carey if he's still available, but will be happy with Reggie Perry.

[DAF86]

I like Devin Vassell, but since he's not in the list, will put Precious Achiuwa. Man we might get that 3-D we've been looking for. And Athletic big at 41, maybe Vernon Carey if he's still available, but will be happy with Reggie Perry.

And who's suppossed to be that 3-D player? Achiuwa? :lol

[DAF86]

I keep coming back to full Memphis games to see if I can get what a lot of folks see on Achiuwa, but, nop, even when he has good games, he just doesn't do what the Spurs need. He is an energy bigman that gets most of his points in transition and as a finisher near the basket. On defense, even though he tries, he just doesn't have the lateral quickness to be a full time defender on the perimeter. I guess his shooting form looks decent enough, but his shooting numbers are concerning (mainly that FT% and that contested 3pt %). I wouldn't bet on him ever developing that aspect of his game.

In sum, he's a guy that doesn't space the floor, nor defends on the perimeter. Why would we want a player like that on our roster?

[Dejounte]

I keep coming back to full Memphis games to see if I can get what a lot of folks see on Achiuwa, but, nop, even when he has good games, he just doesn't do what the Spurs need. He is an energy bigman that gets most of his points in transition and as a finisher near the basket. On defense, even though he tries, he just doesn't have the lateral quickness to be a full time defender on the perimeter. I guess his shooting form looks decent enough, but his shooting numbers are concerning (mainly that FT% and that contested 3pt %). I wouldn't bet on him ever developing that aspect of his game.

In sum, he's a guy that doesn't space the floor, nor defends on the perimeter. Why would we want a player like that on our roster?

Maybe because tape and stats both back up what people believe about Precious and show things you just refuse to see?

https://twitter.com/ZachMilner13/status/1264048784171888640?s=19

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1ha3IZCJRaMr-nTbxPMI_KBqUOQhYmnBTyD4QWrBZ3uY/htmlview#gid=0

[Duncan2177]

I keep coming back to full Memphis games to see if I can get what a lot of folks see on Achiuwa, but, nop, even when he has good games, he just doesn't do what the Spurs need. He is an energy bigman that gets most of his points in transition and as a finisher near the basket. On defense, even though he tries, he just doesn't have the lateral quickness to be a full time defender on the perimeter. I guess his shooting form looks decent enough, but his shooting numbers are concerning (mainly that FT% and that contested 3pt %). I wouldn't bet on him ever developing that aspect of his game.

In sum, he's a guy that doesn't space the floor, nor defends on the perimeter. Why would we want a player like that on our roster?

I'm glad you're not the GM of the Spurs.

[dbestpro]

I keep coming back to full Memphis games to see if I can get what a lot of folks see on Achiuwa, but, nop, even when he has good games, he just doesn't do what the Spurs need. He is an energy bigman that gets most of his points in transition and as a finisher near the basket. On defense, even though he tries, he just doesn't have the lateral quickness to be a full time defender on the perimeter. I guess his shooting form looks decent enough, but his shooting numbers are concerning (mainly that FT% and that contested 3pt %). I wouldn't bet on him ever developing that aspect of his game.

In sum, he's a guy that doesn't space the floor, nor defends on the perimeter. Why would we want a player like that on our roster?

I tend to agree. After watching lots of video I see Patrick Williams as being better than Precious but I still think Saddiq Bey is more ready to make an impact that any of the players drafted. That quick three is killer along with heady D. S. Bey has moved to the top of my list. Probably won't be there when we draft though.

[DAF86]

Maybe because tape and stats both back up what people believe about Precious and show things you just refuse to see?

https://twitter.com/ZachMilner13/status/1264048784171888640?s=19

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1ha3IZCJRaMr-nTbxPMI_KBqUOQhYmnBTyD4QWrBZ3uY/htmlview#gid=0

Yeah, he's a good rim protector and can ocassionally switch on the perimeter to guard lesser talents. How does that refute anything I said?

[Dejounte]

Yeah, he's a good rim protector and can ocassionally switch on the perimeter to guard lesser talents. How does that refute anything I said?

If you check out the link I posted along with the video, it shows advanced statistics that Precious is one of the best at guarding isolation plays and spot ups = perimeter players.

I love how you say "lesser talents" as if that has not been your go-to argument with Poku. Why does it suddenly apply here?

[DAF86]

I'm glad you're not the GM of the Spurs.

If I was the Spurs GM, I'm sure these last couple of years I would have made some moves that would have made you gladder than what the Spurs management actually did, tbh. :lol

[DAF86]

If you check out the link I posted along with the video, it shows advanced statistics that Precious is one of the best at guarding isolation plays and spot ups = perimeter players.

I love how you say "lesser talents" as if that has not been your go-to argument with Poku. Why does it apply here?

Because talent makes a lot more difference on offense than on defense. Any young guy with energy and athleticism can more or less defend at NBA level. You need special talent and skill to attack at NBA level. That is to say, it is easier to defend outside the NBA, than it is to attack outside the NBA. That's why I marked Poku's defense as a question mark, despite having superb defensive metrics and stats, but I trust his offensive game translating better. As an offensive player, life is easier on the spacier, faster, more ref protected courts of the NBA than it is on Europe or NCAA.

[DAF86]

P/S: your link says it all: "Center defense stats". That's what Achiuwa is, a bigman. If you want him to be that, fine. Personally I don't know why folks would want to draft a bigman over a forward but fine; but if your expectation is for him to somehow become a guy that provides legit spacing while being able to guard folks on the perimeter full time, then I just don't see it.

[exstatic]

If a team attempts to use Precious at any position smaller than PF, his bust risk skyrockets. He just is too far short in those areas needed to play the 3. If NBA scouts saw that as a possibility, he’d be slotted as a top 3 pick.

[Dejounte]

P/S: your link says it all: "Center defense stats". That's what Achiuwa is, a bigman. If you want him to be that, fine. Personally I don't know why folks would want to draft a bigman over a forward but fine; but if your expectation is for him to somehow become a guy that provides legit spacing while being able to guard folks on the perimeter full time, then I just don't see it.

We can take this to the other thread if you want, this isn't a Precious thread. Precious could have easily been not a center this season, if Wiseman didn't get suspended. He played PF for the games Wiseman did play. What narrative would you have come up with then where he would have had to guard the perimeter players more often?

[DAF86]

We can take this to the other thread if you want, this isn't a Precious thread. Precious could have easily been not a center this season, if Wiseman didn't get suspended. He played PF for the games Wiseman did play. What narrative would you have come up with then where he would have had to guard the perimeter players more often?

I just saw his game vs Tulsa. He played PF there. He still played like a bigmen, both in offense and on defense.

And if he had guarded on the perimeter more often and showed he could do it consistently, I would probably be campaigning for him right now, but since he didn't and there isn't any evidence he can do it on a nightly basis on the NBA, then I don't. Pretty simple, tbh. I have nothing against the guy, so I don't know why you think I would be making narratives against him if I saw him as a player that fills a need of ours, tbh.

[Dejounte]

I just saw his game vs Tulsa. He played PF there. He still played like a bigmen, both in offense and on defense.

And if he had guarded on the perimeter more often and showed he could do it consistently, I would probably be campaigning for him right now, but since he didn't and there isn't any evidence he can do it on a nightly basis on the NBA, then I don't. Pretty simple, tbh. I have nothing against the guy, so I don't know why you think I would be making narratives against him if I saw him as a player that fills a need of ours, tbh.

Sigh, let me sum this up:

1. He's a PF who can occasionally guard SF (especially bigger ones) and C. Not many prospects in the draft can this be said for.
2. Expecting him to guard 3s full-time is a long shot, I've constantly repeated this
3. His advanced stats on defense do stack favorably with forwards and some guards
4. So you chose a single game where he played 11 minutes as a PF, in a game in the middle of the NCAA where he has been accustomed to playing C. Nice.
5. Whether you believe you are or are not making narratives doesnt matter. We each have our own bias whether you like to admit that or not. Saying he doesn't have lateral quickness (especially compared to forwards close to his size) is just not factual therefore must stem from some sort of bias
6. To hold Precious to some kind of accountability for not showing something consistently is not a fair way to gauge a prospect. Especially when what's being asked of him was something out of his control (playing him at a position he never played his entire life because a teammate was suspended). There are areas Poku hasn't shown consistency but it's not an area that should be focused on.

[Dejounte]

Let me reiterate again that I don't care if the Spurs draft any of Precious, Poku, Pat, Nesmith or any of the top guys winning right now. I think it's great that the Spurstalk population see something in each of these guys. I see something in each too. There's no reason to try and sway people's minds if they like a certain prospect. The Spurs are in a good spot. I don't see the point in trying to downplay a certain prospect because you personally don't like them. We have other threads for that.

[DAF86]

Let me reiterate again that I don't care if the Spurs draft any of Precious, Poku, Pat, Nesmith or any of the top guys winning right now. I think it's great that the Spurstalk population see something in each of these guys. I see something in each too. There's no reason to try and sway people's minds if they like a certain prospect. The Spurs are in a good spot. I don't see the point in trying to downplay a certain prospect because you personally don't like them. We have other threads for that.

Then what's the point of a message board then? :lol

We are here to talk ball and players. If we like someone's game, we say it; if we don't, we say it too, tbh. That's how a message board works, tbh. In fact, the fun part is when there is a back and forth regarding a particular topic. If we would be all agreeing on everything here, it would be boring as fuck, tbh. Also, why are you acting as if you hadn't dowplayed the players you don't like (***cough*** Devin Vassell ***cough***)? :lol

[Dejounte]

I really meant to emphasize using the other threads, not eliminate all talk from the forum.

I honestly don't remember you being swayed about any players. Once your mind is set on a player, no matter what anyone says, it's permanently set. So I just don't know why again I try to argue with someone who's being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.

[DAF86]

Sigh, let me sum this up:

1. He's a PF who can occasionally guard SF (especially bigger ones) and C. Not many prospects in the draft can this be said for.
2. Expecting him to guard 3s full-time is a long shot, I've constantly repeated this

Ok, so pretty much what I said. Why the backlash then?


3. His advanced stats on defense do stack favorably with forwards and some guards
4. So you chose a single game where he played 11 minutes as a PF, in a game in the middle of the NCAA where he has been accustomed to playing C. Nice.

I didn't watch just one game, I just gave you the example of the last one I watched. And in any case, the argument is irrelevant, whether he played Center or Power Forward, the fact remains that at this point in time he's exclusively a bigman. I don't know why so many folks are expecting him to be a 3 and D guy on the NBA.


5. Whether you believe you are or are not making narratives doesnt matter. We each have our own bias whether you like to admit that or not. Saying he doesn't have lateral quickness (especially compared to forwards close to his size) is just not factual therefore must stem from some sort of bias

What bias could I have? I don't know the guy, I don't care where is he from, nor where did he go to college, nor anything else. All I care about is his game and seeing if he could be a valuable piece for the Spurs. By analysing his skillset I don't think he would be and that's it. There's really nothing more to it than this, tbh.


6. To hold Precious to some kind of accountability for not showing something consistently is not a fair way to gauge a prospect. Especially when what's being asked of him was something out of his control (playing him at a position he never played his entire life because a teammate was suspended). There are areas Poku hasn't shown consistency but it's not an area that should be focused on.

Yet folks project him to be playing at that position on the NBA. That's what I don't get.

[Dejounte]

Ok, so pretty much what I said. Why the backlash then?



I didn't watch just one game, I just gave you the example of the last one I watched. And in any case, the argument is irrelevant, whether he played Center or Power Forward, the fact remains that at this point in time he's exclusively a bigman. I don't know why so many folks are expecting him to be a 3 and D guy on the NBA.



What bias could I have? I don't know the guy, I don't care where is he from, nor where did he go to college, nor anything else. All I care about is his game and seeing if he could be a valuable piece for the Spurs. By analysing his skillset I don't think he would be and that's it. There's really nothing more to it than this, tbh.



Yet folks project him to be playing at that position on the NBA. That's what I don't get.

Yes

[DAF86]

I really meant to emphasize using the other threads, not eliminate all talk from the forum.

I honestly don't remember you being swayed about any players. Once your mind is set on a player, no matter what anyone says, it's permanently set. So I just don't know why again I try to argue with someone who's being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.

Are you kidding me? I flip flopped on my number one target three times already. :lol I started with Vassell, then Williams and now it's Poku. Vassell went from being my number one guy to being my number 5.

[Sugus]

the fact remains that at this point in time he's exclusively a bigman. I don't know why so many folks are expecting him to be a 3 and D guy on the NBA.

I think this is the crux of your issue, DAF. Who is expecting him to be a 3&D player? I certainly am not, and I have him as my #1 prospect in my personal board. He looks to be a versatile defender, yes, a big man - but not the archaic kind of big man, like Poeltl (who after watching the bubble, I'm not convinced will ever be able to develop into a starting calibre C on a championship team, or close to it) is, but the athletic, rim-running, vertical spacing kind of big man, which is extremely valuable in the modern NBA.

More than any defensive play or ability though, what stands out to me is his intensity and high motor. And after watching the Spurs, and a lot of prospects, and Keldon in particular, I've taken quite a bit of interest in high-motor as a trait for a player: I believe there's players that have the drive to work on themselves and their games in order to become the best they can be, and players who're just "happy to be there". I see this with Luka - all the tools and talent in the world, all the genetic gifts, yet most of the time he looks lethargic on the court, like he's expecting someone to yell at him in order to start putting in the energy and care. I don't see Luka ever developing into a star, even though he could, simply because I don't see his love for the game and his drive to get better. Now compare that to Keldon, who doesn't have nearly as pronounced physical gifts, but is an absolute dog and constantly pushing himself to get better - that's the kind of player that I can see overcoming his initial limitations, and fulfilling his potential.

In every interview, every game I've watched of Precious, I've had that impression. And it's big for me, personally. If I had to bet on who has the more likely chance to be starting at PF in 3 years' time between Precious and Luka, and who's the backup, I'm taking Precious every single day. So why not draft him? He's maybe not our wing of the future - but who's saying we absolutely must fulfill that need, in this draft? To be honest, and this is certain: given the talent disparity between this year's draft and next years', and the importance of a ball-handling, offense-running wing in today's league (see the Celtics for an easy example), I'd much, much, much rather draft Precious this draft, then tank next season, and shoot for the moon next year with a top-3 pick or close to it. There, we get our star wing, with our guard positions already covered and our big men (hopefully) covered as well. That seems like a solid plan to me.

As an addendum - I follow both Keldon and Dejounte on Instagram. The former is constantly putting in the work at the gym, early as 5am to as late as 12am. The latter is posting videos jumping in the pool on his mansion, with his daugther. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's a mentality thing IMO, and you can't change that. Either have it or you don't... And Precious seems to have it in spades.

[RC_Drunkford]

If I was the Spurs GM, I'm sure these last couple of years I would have made some moves that would have made you gladder than what the Spurs management actually did, tbh. :lol

no offense but literally every idiot on this forum could do better than what the Spurs did since 2017

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I'd be ok with any of the top 5 vote-getters, tbh.

[BackHome]

I agree with Sugus regarding Precious heart and desire to win and get better in his craft but not sold on his ability to shoot from outside. I still like the kid and if people don’t remember he name came up as Spurs pick in some mocks when we had the 18th pick early in the season so good chance we still might take him. I can also see him easily carving time from Poodle at the center Position.

Right now I am torn between him Poku and Smith if the three Smith seems to be the safer pick in that you get a player that is good in offense and also good on defense and he can guard 2 - 4 I think pretty comfortable. But still like the Unicorn but those damn Unicorns have a tendency to bite you on your ass. So with that said May the best kid win

Oh one thing I don’t agree is that I think we definitely need to tank next year just started to look at next years draft and all I can say is it’s stacked with SF and PF.

[Sugus]

I agree with Sugus regarding Precious heart and desire to win and get better in his craft but not sold on his ability to shoot from outside. I still like the kid and if people don’t remember he name came up as Spurs pick in some mocks when we had the 18th pick early in the season so good chance we still might take him. I can also see him easily carving time from Poodle at the center Position.

Right now I am torn between him Poku and Smith if the three Smith seems to be the safer pick in that you get a player that is good in offense and also good on defense and he can guard 2 - 4 I think pretty comfortable. But still like the Unicorn but those damn Unicorns have a tendency to bite you on your ass. So with that said May the best kid win

Oh one thing I don’t agree is that I think we definitely need to tank next year just started to look at next years draft and all I can say is it’s stacked with SF and PF.

Yeah, I'm similarly torn between a few prospects, including Poku. I really like him... In theory. But I can't watch even a single game of his without endlessly wondering whether he'd ever be able to hold his own in an NBA court - not just in terms of the players he'll be going up against, but the physicality, the quickness, the body-intensity. I know he's really mobile, but I just can't shake off the Porzingis comp (who yet again got injured before finishing out an NBA season, even being more rested for these playoffs than he'd ever been in his career). And Porzingis put on a hell of a lot more muscle than Poku could realistically hope to gain - yet tendons and cartilages just aren't something you can work on and add muscle towards. I'd rather go for a higher floor prospect - which doesn't necessarily mean they have to have a lower ceiling than Poku, tbh.

Regarding Precious' ability to shoot from outside, I have yet to see video evidence that his shot isn't mechanically sound. Yes, he doesn't shoot volume, yes, he has bad percentages, but so far I haven't seen a true "can't be fixed" aspect to his shot. I don't care that it's slow either, since I'm not expecting him to become a volume shooter, I just need him to be able to keep defenses honest by draining open shots. If he can do that, and considering his driving and faceup game, it just opens up a lot of possibilities for him as a perimeter (big) player; that is the true value that I see behind Precious, not even mentioning his defense.

If everything goes accordingly development-wise, we could be dreaming of a starting lineup of White-Lonnie (bye DJ, I said this was a dream...)-Keldon-Luka-Precious. You have 5 above-average defenders (jury's still out on Luka ofc but IMO he has shown promise), switchability, outside shooting and playmaking, rebounding. Luka can take on the heavy shooting load, he shown in his last game that he's willing to let it fly, and Precious gives you the things Luka doesn't - vertical spacing, hustle, rebounding, lob finishing, bulldog mentality from your big. To me, that looks like a really balanced and modern NBA team, for sure could make the playoffs (again, if everything goes according to plan).

Btw, I don't know why you said you disagreed with me then said we definitely need to tank next season, since that's exactly what I suggested. For sure we have to do that, next years' class is rumored to be absolutely loaded with talent at the top, and as you said a lot of SF-PF type players, which would be precisely what we'd be missing if we took Achiuwa, who projects to be a PF-C kind of player.

[exstatic]

Yeah, I'm similarly torn between a few prospects, including Poku. I really like him... In theory. But I can't watch even a single game of his without endlessly wondering whether he'd ever be able to hold his own in an NBA court - not just in terms of the players he'll be going up against, but the physicality, the quickness, the body-intensity. I know he's really mobile, but I just can't shake off the Porzingis comp (who yet again got injured before finishing out an NBA season, even being more rested for these playoffs than he'd ever been in his career). And Porzingis put on a hell of a lot more muscle than Poku could realistically hope to gain - yet tendons and cartilages just aren't something you can work on and add muscle towards. I'd rather go for a higher floor prospect - which doesn't necessarily mean they have to have a lower ceiling than Poku, tbh.

Regarding Precious' ability to shoot from outside, I have yet to see video evidence that his shot isn't mechanically sound. Yes, he doesn't shoot volume, yes, he has bad percentages, but so far I haven't seen a true "can't be fixed" aspect to his shot. I don't care that it's slow either, since I'm not expecting him to become a volume shooter, I just need him to be able to keep defenses honest by draining open shots. If he can do that, and considering his driving and faceup game, it just opens up a lot of possibilities for him as a perimeter (big) player; that is the true value that I see behind Precious, not even mentioning his defense.

If everything goes accordingly development-wise, we could be dreaming of a starting lineup of White-Lonnie (bye DJ, I said this was a dream...)-Keldon-Luka-Precious. You have 5 above-average defenders (jury's still out on Luka ofc but IMO he has shown promise), switchability, outside shooting and playmaking, rebounding. Luka can take on the heavy shooting load, he shown in his last game that he's willing to let it fly, and Precious gives you the things Luka doesn't - vertical spacing, hustle, rebounding, lob finishing, bulldog mentality from your big. To me, that looks like a really balanced and modern NBA team, for sure could make the playoffs (again, if everything goes according to plan).

Btw, I don't know why you said you disagreed with me then said we definitely need to tank next season, since that's exactly what I suggested. For sure we have to do that, next years' class is rumored to be absolutely loaded with talent at the top, and as you said a lot of SF-PF type players, which would be precisely what we'd be missing if we took Achiuwa, who projects to be a PF-C kind of player.

22 is going to be what they call the double draft. It will contain the last one and done class, and the first HS class in quite a while. I’d trade our pick in next years draft for a 22 first rounder.

[BackHome]

Yeah, I'm similarly torn between a few prospects, including Poku. I really like him... In theory. But I can't watch even a single game of his without endlessly wondering whether he'd ever be able to hold his own in an NBA court - not just in terms of the players he'll be going up against, but the physicality, the quickness, the body-intensity. I know he's really mobile, but I just can't shake off the Porzingis comp (who yet again got injured before finishing out an NBA season, even being more rested for these playoffs than he'd ever been in his career). And Porzingis put on a hell of a lot more muscle than Poku could realistically hope to gain - yet tendons and cartilages just aren't something you can work on and add muscle towards. I'd rather go for a higher floor prospect - which doesn't necessarily mean they have to have a lower ceiling than Poku, tbh.

Regarding Precious' ability to shoot from outside, I have yet to see video evidence that his shot isn't mechanically sound. Yes, he doesn't shoot volume, yes, he has bad percentages, but so far I haven't seen a true "can't be fixed" aspect to his shot. I don't care that it's slow either, since I'm not expecting him to become a volume shooter, I just need him to be able to keep defenses honest by draining open shots. If he can do that, and considering his driving and faceup game, it just opens up a lot of possibilities for him as a perimeter (big) player; that is the true value that I see behind Precious, not even mentioning his defense.

If everything goes accordingly development-wise, we could be dreaming of a starting lineup of White-Lonnie (bye DJ, I said this was a dream...)-Keldon-Luka-Precious. You have 5 above-average defenders (jury's still out on Luka ofc but IMO he has shown promise), switchability, outside shooting and playmaking, rebounding. Luka can take on the heavy shooting load, he shown in his last game that he's willing to let it fly, and Precious gives you the things Luka doesn't - vertical spacing, hustle, rebounding, lob finishing, bulldog mentality from your big. To me, that looks like a really balanced and modern NBA team, for sure could make the playoffs (again, if everything goes according to plan).

Btw, I don't know why you said you disagreed with me then said we definitely need to tank next season, since that's exactly what I suggested. For sure we have to do that, next years' class is rumored to be absolutely loaded with talent at the top, and as you said a lot of SF-PF type players, which would be precisely what we'd be missing if we took Achiuwa, who projects to be a PF-C kind of player.

Sorry Sugus I read it wrong about tanking my bad. Yeah when watching Poku I keep thinking of Dallas and wondering if he can physically handle the NBA it sucks for Dallas to have all that money invested in a player who may go down at any game it’s not a question of will it’s a question of when he will go down.

Another thing I like about Precious is he definitely has that Dog in him he ain’t going to get punked and definitely won’t back down from Morris the Spurs Could always use more toughness.

On a side note check out a YouTube - Best Fit For NBA Draft by Sub Me In Coach. Pretty good video think us might like it.

[rankingtear]

Still don't see the value of picking a 21 year old energy big at 11. He has to be exceptional at his role to even stay in the league, that's the reality of the modern NBA unfortunately. Even if he is above average there is no trade value there.

[Chinook]

For sure, Precious needs to be at least a positional defender to really have value. That said, there are totally three-and-D PFs in the league. Guarding the best 4 or 5 on the other side is valuable, and if that player can hold their own against the big wings, that's even better. With White and Johnson, the other positions are already spoken for. That said, I'd be more hesitant to re-up Poeltl. They'll need a center who can score or at least space the floor. Jakob and Precious are different players, but I don't think they can co-exist.

[Dejounte]

For sure, Precious needs to be at least a positional defender to really have value. That said, there are totally three-and-D PFs in the league. Guarding the best 4 or 5 on the other side is valuable, and if that player can hold their own against the big wings, that's even better. With White and Johnson, the other positions are already spoken for. That said, I'd be more hesitant to re-up Poeltl. They'll need a center who can score or at least space the floor. Jakob and Precious are different players, but I don't think they can co-exist.

Some people seem OK with our PF situation for the future... Trey Lyles fits seamlessly into the offense but is a big softie and can't be depended on to make stops, Rudy Gay is dumb as bricks and has costed us several games with stupid turnovers, and sometimes LaMarcus (when he plays spot minutes at PF) is too slow laterally. The outlook at the 4 spot is bad.

[Chinook]

Some people seem OK with our PF situation for the future... Trey Lyles fits seamlessly into the offense but is a big softie and can't be depended on to make stops, Rudy Gay is dumb as bricks and has costed us several games with stupid turnovers, and sometimes LaMarcus (when he plays spot minutes at PF) is too slow laterally. The outlook at the 4 spot is bad.

I agree the team needs some oomph at the four. I actually think the depth is fine with Gay, Lyles and Sam. But it would be nice to get either a star or strong role-player from the draft to compete with Lyles, keep Gay in his sixth-man role/let the team trade him and to remove any reliance on Sam's development. I think Precious has a chance to do that if he can do enough on offense. Only issue I have about him (in a bubble) is that I don't think he'd start. I think Topping would for sure start and Williams would have a chance. If Poke is the pick and comes over, I'd expect him to have a chance at starting too. Precious? No. I think he'd go to Austin. The team can afford it, but I'd hate to see both young forwards relegated to the d-league in back-to-back years.

[rankingtear]

If someone drafts him in the lottery they're probably thinking the shot and playmaking develops to atleast an acceptable level to play the 4. After 1 -2 years of development and he tops out as a Jerami Grant type player, is it worth it for the 11th pick and 1-2 years of development , when Jerami Grant trade value is a late first in the same draft.

[Dejounte]

I agree the team needs some oomph at the four. I actually think the depth is fine with Gay, Lyles and Sam. But it would be nice to get either a star or strong role-player from the draft to compete with Lyles, keep Gay in his sixth-man role/let the team trade him and to remove any reliance on Sam's development. I think Precious has a chance to do that if he can do enough on offense. Only issue I have about him (in a bubble) is that I don't think he'd start. I think Topping would for sure start and Williams would have a chance. If Poke is the pick and comes over, I'd expect him to have a chance at starting too. Precious? No. I think he'd go to Austin. The team can afford it, but I'd hate to see both young forwards relegated to the d-league in back-to-back years.

You really think Poku would start with his frame? After all the flak Luka received for not being strong enough from the coaches?

[Dejounte]

Players from the poll who I think would start at some point during their rookie year with the Spurs: Aaron Nesmith, Jalen Smith

Then the obvious ones from the top 10 who aren't likely to drop: Toppin, Okoro, Deni, Okongwu

[talkspurs]

Why do you think Bey would not start. He shoots 3s so he could play SF and push DDR back to sg or could play PF and start DJm and white.

[BackHome]

You really think Poku would start with his frame? After all the flak Luka received for not being strong enough from the coaches?

If Pop is back I don’t see anyone getting playing time until mid or late into the season we all know they going to G League.

[DAF86]

Yeah, Saddiq Bey is probably the safest bet at an immediate contributor. He's also a sure thing at being nothing more than a 3-D guy on the NBA.

[Dejounte]

If Pop is back I don’t see anyone getting playing time until mid or late into the season we all know they going to G League.

Well yeah. Hence why I said at some point during their rookie year.

Though let's be honest... Keldon was on his way to be a legit rotation player with or without covid. He was getting more and more minutes.

[KobesAchilles]

Yeah, Saddiq Bey is probably the safest bet at an immediate contributor. He's also a sure thing at being nothing more than a 3-D guy on the NBA.
I mean what are we going for? That’s the question I keep asking in this years draft. Bc a 3&D pretty much guarantees us playoffs next year. Assuming (and this is a BIG muthafuckin assumption) Pop does right and gets rid of Forbes, Marco, and Lyles. Also Pop needs to bench Murray (the second biggest if of them all). But a starting line up of White, KJ, Bey, DDR, LMA, and Poetl doesn’t sound too bad to me. Especially with Lonnie, DJ, Mills, Gay, and Eubanks of the bench.

If it’s to win a championship then we probably shouldn’t draft a SF in this years draft bc none of them are good enough. We go for a rim protector, transition scorer (to actually give us the option to have a big man run the floor), and someone we can run a pick and roll and actually dives and finishes. To me, that’s Precious. We can figure out the SF in next years draft and probably pick up an extra pick when we trade Murray

**edit** I have 6 people in my starting line up but you get the gist anyway :lol

[Sugus]

22 is going to be what they call the double draft. It will contain the last one and done class, and the first HS class in quite a while. I’d trade our pick in next years draft for a 22 first rounder.

Wasn't '21 supposed to be the double draft? I could've sworn I heard a ton about it sometime back, which was what made that famous Miami '21 pick so valuable. I hadn't heard that about '22, do you have a source? Just for curiosity's sake.

In any case, we can tank next season and in 2022. Maybe not tank, but miss the playoffs. Spurs need all the young talent they can get right now, tbh. We could also take on some bad money that summer since all our contracts are off the books (provided the FO is willing to spend it, which I know is a pipe dream) to get additional picks. In any case, both classes project to be miles better than this years' which is why I don't particularly want to shoot for the stars with our #11.

[DAF86]

I mean what are we going for? That’s the question I keep asking in this years draft. Bc a 3&D pretty much guarantees us playoffs next year. Assuming (and this is a BIG muthafuckin assumption) Pop does right and gets rid of Forbes, Marco, and Lyles. Also Pop needs to bench Murray (the second biggest if of them all). But a starting line up of White, KJ, Bey, DDR, LMA, and Poetl doesn’t sound too bad to me. Especially with Lonnie, DJ, Mills, Gay, and Eubanks of the bench.

If it’s to win a championship then we probably shouldn’t draft a SF in this years draft bc none of them are good enough. We go for a rim protector, transition scorer (to actually give us the option to have a big man run the floor), and someone we can run a pick and roll and actually dives and finishes. To me, that’s Precious. We can figure out the SF in next years draft and probably pick up an extra pick when we trade Murray

**edit** I have 6 people in my starting line up but you get the gist anyway :lol

I'm not against drafting a 3 and D ceiling guy, tbh. In fact, that's the mindset I started this scouting process with, but then I saw Pokusevski and I fell for his upside. Though, I wouldn't be mad if the Spurs do go the 3 and D route and end up drafting someone like Bey or Vassell. There are plenty of interesting prospects around 11, I'm sure the Spurs will pick someone worth getting your hopes up for.

[Sugus]

Sorry Sugus I read it wrong about tanking my bad. Yeah when watching Poku I keep thinking of Dallas and wondering if he can physically handle the NBA it sucks for Dallas to have all that money invested in a player who may go down at any game it’s not a question of will it’s a question of when he will go down.

Another thing I like about Precious is he definitely has that Dog in him he ain’t going to get punked and definitely won’t back down from Morris the Spurs Could always use more toughness.

On a side note check out a YouTube - Best Fit For NBA Draft by Sub Me In Coach. Pretty good video think us might like it.

All good my man. Yeah, Porzingis' max was always a risky contract, albeit a necessary one if Dallas wanted to retain him long-term. Personally, I wouldn't have made it, since Luka is so young that you can take a couple years to wait for a better opportunity while he develops and isn't close to his prime. That contract has huge albatross risk. I see Poku having a similar player trajectory - sometimes it's not about the plays and whether he can play or not, but the in-betweens: the bumps, the bruises, the wear-and-tear, the grind. Bodies like Poku's just aren't made for long-term basketball, and while the ceiling is high, I don't really want the Spurs to invest their highest pick in years on such a bust-likely prospect. I think Poku's bound to go in the mid to late first round, depending on his medicals and combine results; so if the Spurs would trade down with Boston, I wouldn't be opposed to using a pick on him.

Agreed on Precious. Having a big man that can put up a fight, be gritty and aggressive on D, and hustle, is what this team needs. Jakob is good for many things, but far too soft. I don't know how well he and Precious would fit (it's not like you'd pass on Achiuwa just for his fit with Jakob anyways) but I know that, if he becomes what I envision of him, I'd much rather have Precious than Jakob starting moving forward, at either the 4 or small ball 5 which I think is an underrated part of his drafting profile when people talk about him. The league is trending far away from players like Jakob, and closer each day to big men like Achiuwa, imo.

I'll check that video, thanks for the rec!

[Sugus]

If it’s to win a championship then we probably shouldn’t draft a SF in this years draft bc none of them are good enough. We go for a rim protector, transition scorer (to actually give us the option to have a big man run the floor), and someone we can run a pick and roll and actually dives and finishes. To me, that’s Precious. We can figure out the SF in next years draft and probably pick up an extra pick when we trade Murray

This is my ideal scenario, down to the trading Murray while his value is high for another pick. Spurs shouldn't be desperate to make the playoffs next season, nor draft with our present roster in mind, where the three most important vet players to next year's hypothetical playoff push would be gone after the season. Trade for the future, develop, wait for your chance. At least that's what I hope RC is thinking...

[Chinook]

You really think Poku would start with his frame? After all the flak Luka received for not being strong enough from the coaches?

That's if Poke is drafted at 11. If he's drafted late in the first or in the second, no. If the Spurs like him enough to take him at 11, that would suggest they're buying into his talent and think he just needs to gain muscle. There's no reason to put him in the d-league if that's the case. Poke is ALWAYS going to be skinny, and he's not going to stop being way too skinny for years. He's going to have to learn how to play around that, and there's no reason why he can't start doing that immediately. MAYBE Pop would play him at the back-up three starting out. But there's no doubt in my mind that the Spurs aren't going to take someone thinking they have star upside and then put them in the d-league.

[ZeusWillJudge]

I just read a comment in another thread that Saddiq Bey is "just" a tall Wes Matthews. I think a lot of people have this idea that the Spurs are going to get the next Giannis with the 11th pick in a weak draft. That's fine if it happens. But remember that Milwaukee went 15-67 the year after they drafted Giannis, and got the #2 pick in the next draft. Then they went 41-41 the next year. I would love to see the Spurs commit to that kind of rebuild, but I don't think most of you would.

Pokusevski has skills, but not the mad physical skills Giannis had. He doesn't have THAT kind of upside, and there's no way he's going to show before about Year 3. I'd take a "tall Wes Matthews" right now, and the #2 pick next draft, and never look back. Especially if the Tall Wes Matthews can drain 3's the way Bey can.

[Brazil]

Yes.... that's absolutely why we should vote for him... His name will bring balance to all... He is the chosen one

:lol

:tu

[exstatic]

Wasn't '21 supposed to be the double draft? I could've sworn I heard a ton about it sometime back, which was what made that famous Miami '21 pick so valuable. I hadn't heard that about '22, do you have a source? Just for curiosity's sake.

In any case, we can tank next season and in 2022. Maybe not tank, but miss the playoffs. Spurs need all the young talent they can get right now, tbh. We could also take on some bad money that summer since all our contracts are off the books (provided the FO is willing to spend it, which I know is a pipe dream) to get additional picks. In any case, both classes project to be miles better than this years' which is why I don't particularly want to shoot for the stars with our #11.

It was originally going to be 2021, but the NBA, and the NBAPA couldn’t reach agreement to alter the CBA quick enough for that draft.

[exstatic]

I just read a comment in another thread that Saddiq Bey is "just" a tall Wes Matthews. I think a lot of people have this idea that the Spurs are going to get the next Giannis with the 11th pick in a weak draft. That's fine if it happens. But remember that Milwaukee went 15-67 the year after they drafted Giannis, and got the #2 pick in the next draft. Then they went 41-41 the next year. I would love to see the Spurs commit to that kind of rebuild, but I don't think most of you would.

Pokusevski has skills, but not the mad physical skills Giannis had. He doesn't have THAT kind of upside, and there's no way he's going to show before about Year 3. I'd take a "tall Wes Matthews" right now, and the #2 pick next draft, and never look back. Especially if the Tall Wes Matthews can drain 3's the way Bey can.

The thing is, MIL isn’t on this track without rolling the dice on a skinny illegal African kid playing in a shit Greek league. They wouldn’t be where they are now if they had clenched up, and drafted a taller Wes Mathews. That #2 pick turned into a dud.

[ZeusWillJudge]

The thing is, MIL isn’t on this track without rolling the dice on a skinny illegal African kid playing in a shit Greek league. They wouldn’t be where they are now if they had clenched up, and drafted a taller Wes Mathews. That #2 pick turned into a dud.


LOL. Some of you just like to argue with anything and everything.

The Bucks committed to a rebuild strategy. If the Spurs are willing to do that, fine. But that would mean making some moves - like with DDR, Aldridge, or both. I said in another thread that if the Spurs take Pokusevski, it means that they are committing to an actual rebuild - or at least it should mean that. If you're going to roll the dice, then roll the fucking dice. But, yeah, if Giannis was a miss, then Milwaukee would have been screwed. Just like the Spurs will be if they throw this #11 pick at Pokusevski.

But don't try to conflate Poku and Giannis. Giannis had incredible lateral movement, and could jump out of the gym. He had a 12-inch hand span... bigger than Kawhi's. He was 6'9", and the same weight as 7' Pokusevski, but he showed lots of signs that he wasn't done growing. And he fell as low as he did in the draft because teams were still drafting lots of Centers - I think there were six C's that got drafted ahead of Giannis that year, just as the league was really changing. At 14, Giannis was a value pick as much as a swing for the fence.

[exstatic]

LOL. Some of you just like to argue with anything and everything.

The Bucks committed to a rebuild strategy. If the Spurs are willing to do that, fine. But that would mean making some moves - like with DDR, Aldridge, or both. I said in another thread that if the Spurs take Pokusevski, it means that they are committing to an actual rebuild - or at least it should mean that. If you're going to roll the dice, then roll the fucking dice. But, yeah, if Giannis was a miss, then Milwaukee would have been screwed. Just like the Spurs will be if they throw this #11 pick at Pokusevski.

But don't try to conflate Poku and Giannis. Giannis had incredible lateral movement, and could jump out of the gym. He had a 12-inch hand span... bigger than Kawhi's. He was 6'9", and the same weight as 7' Pokusevski, but he showed lots of signs that he wasn't done growing. And he fell as low as he did in the draft because teams were still drafting lots of Centers - I think there were six C's that got drafted ahead of Giannis that year, just as the league was really changing. At 14, Giannis was a value pick as much as a swing for the fence.

I’m not averse to a rebuild, but if you’re going to, swing for the fucking fence. Start your rebuild with a possible unicorn, not a taller Wes Matthews. Either way, you’re in for a few years of shit, but I’d rather be developing a possible unicorn than playing it safe watching Wes Matthews other self.

[XDT76]

I see Aaron Nesmith being quite popular in the poll, but not much people talk about him. I have an impression that he is somewhat a Beli 2.0 can anyone provide a more in depth view about him?

[Dejounte]

I see Aaron Nesmith being quite popular in the poll, but not much people talk about him. I have an impression that he is somewhat a Beli 2.0 can anyone provide a more in depth view about him?

He's much more than just a spot up shooter. He navigates screens like McCollum and has a variety of moves when scoring from inside the arc. He's a threat from anywhere and can be a legit scorer.

[BackHome]

If we still had Timmy, Tony, and Manu I would be Happy to get Nesmith but we’re close to a rebuild I would rather have a player with more upside and a SF who is an above average defender.

[Kurgan]

He's much more than just a spot up shooter. He navigates screens like McCollum and has a variety of moves when scoring from inside the arc. He's a threat from anywhere and can be a legit scorer.

I'm doubtful about him but I'm slowly coming around, assuming he's healthy. Spurs could use a volume shooter(and I'm not talking about Bryn). Every good team seems to have one.

[DAF86]

I just read a comment in another thread that Saddiq Bey is "just" a tall Wes Matthews. I think a lot of people have this idea that the Spurs are going to get the next Giannis with the 11th pick in a weak draft. That's fine if it happens. But remember that Milwaukee went 15-67 the year after they drafted Giannis, and got the #2 pick in the next draft. Then they went 41-41 the next year. I would love to see the Spurs commit to that kind of rebuild, but I don't think most of you would.

Pokusevski has skills, but not the mad physical skills Giannis had. He doesn't have THAT kind of upside, and there's no way he's going to show before about Year 3. I'd take a "tall Wes Matthews" right now, and the #2 pick next draft, and never look back. Especially if the Tall Wes Matthews can drain 3's the way Bey can.

That reasoning doesn't make sense. The only way a low ceiling player like Bey makes sense is if you feel like you have a good enough team to compete (to make the POs at least) and need just a few more pieces. In that sense, adding a guy like Bey works. But if you think next season we are getting the second pick (meaning we are going to suck and/or go into rebuilding mode) then what's the point in getting a low ceiling guy? Go for the home run and pick the high upside player.

[Kurgan]

Poku looks like he's going to be injury prone. He seems to have the same type of frame that guys like Porzingis and AK47 had. Yeah, both of those guys are/were good players but they also missed lots of games every season and never won anything for the teams that drafted them.

[ZeusWillJudge]

That reasoning doesn't make sense. The only way a low ceiling player like Bey makes sense is if you feel like you have a good enough team to compete (to make the POs at least) and need just a few more pieces. In that sense, adding a guy like Bey works. But if you think next season we are getting the second pick (meaning we are going to suck and/or go into rebuilding mode) then what's the point in getting a low ceiling guy? Go for the home run and pick the high upside player.




I know it doesn't make sense... to you. Dr. Suess doesn't make sense to you. And you obviously didn't watch Nova play last year.

The Spurs chose their high upside guy last draft, and passed on Matisse Thybulle and Brandon Clarke, just to name two. Not to mention that last years's draft was full of obvious NBA-caliber players at 11. Bey shot 45% from 3P last year. If he's anywhere close in the NBA, that's instant upside, especially from a guy who is a legit 6'8" and can get his shot off consistently. Echhh... nevermind. None of this will make sense to you.

You want to gamble? Empty your bank account. Go to Vegas. Put all your money on double-zero. Come back and tell me if you got rich.

[Sugus]

I know it doesn't make sense... to you. Dr. Suess doesn't make sense to you. And you obviously didn't watch Nova play last year.

The Spurs chose their high upside guy last draft, and passed on Matisse Thybulle and Brandon Clarke, just to name two. Not to mention that last years's draft was full of obvious NBA-caliber players at 11. Bey shot 45% from 3P last year. If he's anywhere close in the NBA, that's instant upside, especially from a guy who is a legit 6'8" and can get his shot off consistently. Echhh... nevermind. None of this will make sense to you.

You want to gamble? Empty your bank account. Go to Vegas. Put all your money on double-zero. Come back and tell me if you got rich.

Agree with the bolded part more than anything, since I don't really like Bey, but have a similar line of thinking. Taking two high-bust-potential picks in consecutive drafts is not good to me, even if you're trying to "swing for the fences". Besides, I'm not convinced Poku (I assume we're talking about him) has a higher ceiling than other prospects in this draft, nor is more likely to reach his ceiling than other prospects. All of the big men the Spurs are reportedly scouting are better picks for their value and probability to translate, to me, than Poku. Hopefully another team makes a reach for him before us and rids the Spurs of having to make that call...

[exstatic]

I know it doesn't make sense... to you. Dr. Suess doesn't make sense to you. And you obviously didn't watch Nova play last year.

The Spurs chose their high upside guy last draft, and passed on Matisse Thybulle and Brandon Clarke, just to name two. Not to mention that last years's draft was full of obvious NBA-caliber players at 11. Bey shot 45% from 3P last year. If he's anywhere close in the NBA, that's instant upside, especially from a guy who is a legit 6'8" and can get his shot off consistently. Echhh... nevermind. None of this will make sense to you.

You want to gamble? Empty your bank account. Go to Vegas. Put all your money on double-zero. Come back and tell me if you got rich.

This is the draft TO gamble. Hell, there isn’t even a consensus #1 pick. With picks outside of the top of the draft, you gamble every year until you hit. Playing it safe and scurred is a recipe for failure. Worst case is none of them pan out, and you get some actual good picks with better chances for success in coming drafts. Middle case is one of them pans out, and you’re a multi round playoff team. Best case is a couple of them pan out, and you basically skip rebuilding to become a contender.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Agree with the bolded part more than anything, since I don't really like Bey, but have a similar line of thinking. Taking two high-bust-potential picks in consecutive drafts is not good to me, even if you're trying to "swing for the fences". Besides, I'm not convinced Poku (I assume we're talking about him) has a higher ceiling than other prospects in this draft, nor is more likely to reach his ceiling than other prospects. All of the big men the Spurs are reportedly scouting are better picks for their value and probability to translate, to me, than Poku. Hopefully another team makes a reach for him before us and rids the Spurs of having to make that call...


Bey isn't the only guy I like. Not even close. He's one of the ones I think might be available at 11, and he fills some needs. If Tyrese Halliburton is there, I'd pull that trigger in a heartbeat. There are 5-6 guys that will almost certainly be off the board before the Spurs pick (unless one of them has a hidden health issue, or makes a Trump commercial.) I don't want them to pick another 6'5" guy unless he's a PG. I don't want another tweener who's too short for one position, and too slow for the other. And I'm sick of reading about guys who could make an NBA squad, if they only learn how to shoot. Those things really narrow the field.

Back in 2011, people were slobbering all over Bismack Biyombo, because of his "crazy upside". And SpursTalk was crying for the Spurs to trade away assets to move up and get him. The good news is that Detroit bought into the Biyombo story, and drafted him with the 8 pick, which pushed guys like Kawhi and Klay, and Kemba further down the board. I will be more than happy if someone drafts Pokusevski before the Spurs get a chance to "steal" him, and it pushes someone else down to the Spurs' slot.

[Chinook]

Again, I think it would serve people well to make a distinction between a guy's realistic ceiling and his ideal ceiling. I know that sounds almost oxymoronic, but I feel like people are looking at guys like Poke and Precious in terms of what they could possibly develop into rather than what they can be expected to develop into. In terms of realistic ceilings, I don't see either of those guys being above Nesmith or regular Smith. That does not mean those two players are low-ceiling guys. They have marketable NBA skills and obvious paths to improvement. For reasons I've already talked about a ton, I don't see the same clear paths for the other players. If the Spurs somehow drafted both Smith and 'smith in this draft, I would feel good about projecting them as a team that would compete for HCA within three years. They'd still be missing a superstar, but they'd preserve cap space for sign one and have Walker, Murray, Sam and future picks to add to salary to try to trade for one.

Drafting say the next Khris Middleton or Josh Richardson is really valuable, even to a non-contender. The vague chance that someone hits a crazy development curve and becomes a star doesn't have infinite value.

[Chinook]

Scenario: The Spurs are on the clock at 11, and everyone on this list is magically still available. Dallas calls and offers 18, 31 and a 2022 second for 11 so they can take Poke. Would you agree to the swap?

Obviously, if you think Poke is a star in the making and the best player on the board, you don't. Or if you think some Player X is going to be a star and don't think they'll be around at 18 you don't. But does Dallas thinking Poke will be star influence your choice? Are you worried about trading them another Dirk?

I feel like the answer is no, but it depends. Personally, getting an offensive wing and a defensive forward using 18, 31 and 41 would be a big accomplishment to compliment the "young core" while not needing to trade away DeRozan or Aldridge. But if Poke's anything like a star, that might lock down the division for the next seven to 10 years. I'd still do it, but I'd much rather Boston be the team asking to move up for him.

[duncan2150]

Again, I think it would serve people well to make a distinction between a guy's realistic ceiling and his ideal ceiling. I know that sounds almost oxymoronic, but I feel like people are looking at guys like Poke and Precious in terms of what they could possibly develop into rather than what they can be expected to develop into. In terms of realistic ceilings, I don't see either of those guys being above Nesmith or regular Smith. That does not mean those two players are low-ceiling guys. They have marketable NBA skills and obvious paths to improvement. For reasons I've already talked about a ton, I don't see the same clear paths for the other players. If the Spurs somehow drafted both Smith and 'smith in this draft, I would feel good about projecting them as a team that would compete for HCA within three years. They'd still be missing a superstar, but they'd preserve cap space for sign one and have Walker, Murray, Sam and future picks to add to salary to try to trade for one.

Drafting say the next Khris Middleton or Josh Richardson is really valuable, even to a non-contender. The vague chance that someone hits a crazy development curve and becomes a star doesn't have infinite value.

I agree with you but not about precious.

Yes you take poku for what He could be but not precious. You take achiuwa for what He is now , a 4/5 who give you rebounds/blocks/some threat in transition/defense/switchability and offcourse with some ideas of improvement.

[Sugus]

Again, I think it would serve people well to make a distinction between a guy's realistic ceiling and his ideal ceiling. I know that sounds almost oxymoronic, but I feel like people are looking at guys like Poke and Precious in terms of what they could possibly develop into rather than what they can be expected to develop into. In terms of realistic ceilings, I don't see either of those guys being above Nesmith or regular Smith. That does not mean those two players are low-ceiling guys. They have marketable NBA skills and obvious paths to improvement. For reasons I've already talked about a ton, I don't see the same clear paths for the other players. If the Spurs somehow drafted both Smith and 'smith in this draft, I would feel good about projecting them as a team that would compete for HCA within three years. They'd still be missing a superstar, but they'd preserve cap space for sign one and have Walker, Murray, Sam and future picks to add to salary to try to trade for one.

Drafting say the next Khris Middleton or Josh Richardson is really valuable, even to a non-contender. The vague chance that someone hits a crazy development curve and becomes a star doesn't have infinite value.

I agree with everything you wrote, regarding Poku, but not Achiuwa (and not simply because I like him as a prospect). Unlike Poku, I see him having a number of translatable or NBA-ready skills (rebounding, rim-protection, defense especially in the paint and potentially on the perimeter, face-up game), and of course some that he might come to develop in time (I don't see his shooting as being "ideal ceiling" material but we can agree to disagree there). Definitely feel like Poku fits your comparison much better.

Also, who's the better prospect in your opinion, between Smith and Stewart? I haven't seen too much of Smith, neither video nor talks around here. Why are you so high on him? Legit curious.

[Sugus]

I agree with you but not about precious.

Yes you take poku for what He could be but not precious. You take achiuwa for what He is now , a 4/5 who give you rebounds/blocks/some threat in transition/defense/switchability and offcourse with some ideas of improvement.

Beat me to it :lol

[duncan2150]

Beat me to it :lol

You're welcome :)

[ZeusWillJudge]

Again, I think it would serve people well to make a distinction between a guy's realistic ceiling and his ideal ceiling. I know that sounds almost oxymoronic, but I feel like people are looking at guys like Poke and Precious in terms of what they could possibly develop into rather than what they can be expected to develop into. In terms of realistic ceilings, I don't see either of those guys being above Nesmith or regular Smith. That does not mean those two players are low-ceiling guys. They have marketable NBA skills and obvious paths to improvement. For reasons I've already talked about a ton, I don't see the same clear paths for the other players. If the Spurs somehow drafted both Smith and 'smith in this draft, I would feel good about projecting them as a team that would compete for HCA within three years. They'd still be missing a superstar, but they'd preserve cap space for sign one and have Walker, Murray, Sam and future picks to add to salary to try to trade for one.

Drafting say the next Khris Middleton or Josh Richardson is really valuable, even to a non-contender. The vague chance that someone hits a crazy development curve and becomes a star doesn't have infinite value.


Heh. Nesmith and regular Smith. :D

You want Nesmith out there as a floor spacer, and that's not a bad thing at all. He's active as hell off the ball - made me think of Rip Hamilton a bit. He'd probably have to stay lean to keep that up, but he would help bend a defense with that kind of activity, as well as his shooting. Smith isn't super-quick, but I think he's one of those guys who will put on another 20 lbs. of muscle and still be just as quick as he is now. I just read a report earlier that said he wouldn't get much bigger (based on his skinny legs or something), but I disagree.

I don't think the Spurs would be able to get them both unless they pick up something earlier than #41, and I'm not super-excited about Nesmith at 11. But if you're looking to build a solid core those two would be a step in the right direction.

[R. DeMurre]

:lol Gotta give credit for the subtle trashtalk and high annoyance aspect of Chinook's insistence on calling him "Poke" when Pokusevski himself says his nickname is "Poku" and that's what every teammate, coach, and scout calls him. Well done.

https://www.instagram.com/poku_20/?hl=en

[Sugus]

:lol Gotta give credit for the subtle trashtalk and high annoyance aspect of Chinook's insistence on calling him "Poke" when Pokusevski himself says his nickname is "Poku" and that's what every teammate,coach, and scout calls him.

https://www.instagram.com/poku_20/?hl=en

Sheesh, first post on Poku's IG is a Kobe tribute video. Now I really don't like him as a prospect :lol

[duncan2150]

I agree with everything you wrote, regarding Poku, but not Achiuwa (and not simply because I like him as a prospect). Unlike Poku, I see him having a number of translatable or NBA-ready skills (rebounding, rim-protection, defense especially in the paint and potentially on the perimeter, face-up game), and of course some that he might come to develop in time (I don't see his shooting as being "ideal ceiling" material but we can agree to disagree there). Definitely feel like Poku fits your comparison much better.

Also, who's the better prospect in your opinion, between Smith and Stewart? I haven't seen too much of Smith, neither video nor talks around here. Why are you so high on him? Legit curious.

About your last questions

Stewart is stronger but smith is taller, more agile and he can shoot pretty well. Smith will Be better defending the perimeter.

That's why he is a better prospect imo.

[R. DeMurre]

Sheesh, first post on Poku's IG is a Kobe tribute video. Now I really don't like him as a prospect :lol

:lol You mean Black Mambo?

[Chinook]

I agree with you but not about precious.

Yes you take poku for what He could be but not precious. You take achiuwa for what He is now , a 4/5 who give you rebounds/blocks/some threat in transition/defense/switchability and offcourse with some ideas of improvement.


I agree with everything you wrote, regarding Poku, but not Achiuwa (and not simply because I like him as a prospect). Unlike Poku, I see him having a number of translatable or NBA-ready skills (rebounding, rim-protection, defense especially in the paint and potentially on the perimeter, face-up game), and of course some that he might come to develop in time (I don't see his shooting as being "ideal ceiling" material but we can agree to disagree there). Definitely feel like Poku fits your comparison much better.

Also, who's the better prospect in your opinion, between Smith and Stewart? I haven't seen too much of Smith, neither video nor talks around here. Why are you so high on him? Legit curious.

I haven't scouted any players enough to really like guys to dislike them. And I don't think Poke and Precious are in the same boat, but I also would not be really happy with drafting an undersized center at 11. His real value would come from him playing as a perimeter player, and I don't see him as having those skills -- on either end. As I've mentioned, I don't think he's anything but a big. He's switchable, but he does't seem able to cross-guard. Maybe he could guard James, but I wouldn't want to put him on Leonard up and down the court. I also really don't like his offensive game for his size. I don't think Poeltl is a definite keeper, but it's not a good sign if Precious can't play next to him. You want your PF to have a perimeter game, not just the ability to hit the three.

When talking about defensive forwards in this draft, Paul Reed is my clear number 1. I'm not saying I can't see a world where Achiuwa isn't the best player in a couple of years, but my relatively uninformed board has Precious as someone I'd be okay getting in a trade down rather than as the main target at 11.

[R. DeMurre]

Or is it Black Bambi?

[ZeusWillJudge]

I agree with you but not about precious.

Yes you take poku for what He could be but not precious. You take achiuwa for what He is now , a 4/5 who give you rebounds/blocks/some threat in transition/defense/switchability and offcourse with some ideas of improvement.


Did you watch him play last year?

I'm not going to get into an argument with true believers. But if the Spurs do happen to take him at 11 (I don't think so, but if), I'm going to make a prediction. Get ready to see a guy who gets the ball near the basket in half court sets, and then fails to finish. A lot.

He's got the size and athleticism to develop, but I think he'd be better in a wide-open offense. Put him on the floor with Zion, for instance, and he'll feast.

[Edit: I should probably clear that up. He's raw. And he's going to look really raw against NBA competition, with NBA skills. That's what I saw, anyway. If he's got the drive to work and develop those same skills, his motor and athleticism could let him be a good player. But "right now"? I think he'll be frustrating as hell to watch.]

[duncan2150]

Did you watch him play last year?

I'm not going to get into an argument with true believers. But if the Spurs do happen to take him at 11 (I don't think so, but if), I'm going to make a prediction. Get ready to see a guy who gets the ball near the basket in half court sets, and then fails to finish. A lot.

He's got the size and athleticism to develop, but I think he'd be better in a wide-open offense. Put him on the floor with Zion, for instance, and he'll feast.

I will not talk about him if i did not saw him.

I agree and as you, I talked about transition wich could be one of his strenght. I talked only about D because I think that's where he could be really good.

On offense he is good at pnr, can finish with his athletism but he needs some work.

[duncan2150]

I haven't scouted any players enough to really like guys to dislike them. And I don't think Poke and Precious are in the same boat, but I also would not be really happy with drafting an undersized center at 11. His real value would come from him playing as a perimeter player, and I don't see him as having those skills -- on either end. As I've mentioned, I don't think he's anything but a big. He's switchable, but he does't seem able to cross-guard. Maybe he could guard James, but I wouldn't want to put him on Leonard up and down the court. I also really don't like his offensive game for his size. I don't think Poeltl is a definite keeper, but it's not a good sign if Precious can't play next to him. You want your PF to have a perimeter game, not just the ability to hit the three.

When talking about defensive forwards in this draft, Paul Reed is my clear number 1. I'm not saying I can't see a world where Achiuwa isn't the best player in a couple of years, but my relatively uninformed board has Precious as someone I'd be okay getting in a trade down rather than as the main target at 11.

I totally understand that's why I may prefer Smith.
Precious is a PF not an undersized center, he can play some 5 but that's not his position. And you're right he could not play with poetl, with LA but not Jakob.
Offensively we agree but on defense he is better than you think imo.

[Dejounte]

I agree with everything you wrote, regarding Poku, but not Achiuwa (and not simply because I like him as a prospect). Unlike Poku, I see him having a number of translatable or NBA-ready skills (rebounding, rim-protection, defense especially in the paint and potentially on the perimeter, face-up game), and of course some that he might come to develop in time (I don't see his shooting as being "ideal ceiling" material but we can agree to disagree there). Definitely feel like Poku fits your comparison much better.

Also, who's the better prospect in your opinion, between Smith and Stewart? I haven't seen too much of Smith, neither video nor talks around here. Why are you so high on him? Legit curious.

Wow, I'm offended. I have pages and pages of info on Smith in the other thread. He's a beast.

[Sugus]

I haven't scouted any players enough to really like guys to dislike them. And I don't think Poke and Precious are in the same boat, but I also would not be really happy with drafting an undersized center at 11. His real value would come from him playing as a perimeter player, and I don't see him as having those skills -- on either end. As I've mentioned, I don't think he's anything but a big. He's switchable, but he does't seem able to cross-guard. Maybe he could guard James, but I wouldn't want to put him on Leonard up and down the court. I also really don't like his offensive game for his size. I don't think Poeltl is a definite keeper, but it's not a good sign if Precious can't play next to him. You want your PF to have a perimeter game, not just the ability to hit the three.

When talking about defensive forwards in this draft, Paul Reed is my clear number 1. I'm not saying I can't see a world where Achiuwa isn't the best player in a couple of years, but my relatively uninformed board has Precious as someone I'd be okay getting in a trade down rather than as the main target at 11.


I totally understand that's why I may prefer Smith.
Precious is a PF not an undersized center, he can play some 5 but that's not his position. And you're right he could not play with poetl, with LA but not Jakob.
Offensively we agree but on defense he is better than you think imo.

Agree with Duncan here - Achiuwa is not a center, but a PF, who has the capacity, agility and mobility to be able to play small-ball 5, and do it well (not the Rudy Gay kind of "small ball 5). That's one of his main enticing features tbh, not a knack on his size at all. Do agree about his perimeter game being underdeveloped/underwhelming, but to be honest, if Precious had a fleshed out perimeter game, he'd be a top 3 pick in this weak draft. Concessions have to be made... And I think Precious, more than anything, has the tools to excel in his development, even if he isn't quite there yet. He's a willing, and capable, dribbler, especially in the open court but also on half-court offenses, has shown good passes especially when he drives, and has a good-looking form from deep that just hasn't had the reps to be better (1.3 attempts per game if I'm not mistaken). I don't see him developing into a first or second option on offense, but we also don't need him to - his finishing, verticality, PnR abilities, lob threat, rebounding, and especially defense are all things this team needs and will need moving forward. I also don't think Poeltl is a keeper (or at least, not a starter moving forward) so you have to take these things into account. If you can get a floor-spacing C (think Ibaka, but not Ibaka), that's a perfect frontcourt match.

The thing we'd be truly missing is a SF, preferrably a 3.5 forward, along the lines of Tatum or Brown. That's the missing piece - and that's where we tank next season, and go get our future star in next years' lottery picking. I think that's a very solid strategy the Spurs could take in order to quickly put together a very modern NBA team that's young, plays fast and in transition, can shoot from multiple positions, and has a lot of room to grow.

[Sugus]

Wow, I'm offended. I have pages and pages of info on Smith in the other thread. He's a beast.

Oh, the guy with the glasses, isn't it? Haven't gotten around to sitting and watching a full game of his yet, work has been heavy the past week or so. Definitely looked interesting from the few highlights I watched... Though I don't know where he's projected to go. I'd still take Achiuwa over him (my opinion might change on watching more film though), but if the Spurs trade down, he could be a very good piece.

[rjv]

watching what tyler herro is doing for the heat because of his ability to shoot makes me fine with taking a chance on bey.

[DAF86]

I know it doesn't make sense... to you. Dr. Suess doesn't make sense to you. And you obviously didn't watch Nova play last year.

The Spurs chose their high upside guy last draft, and passed on Matisse Thybulle and Brandon Clarke, just to name two. Not to mention that last years's draft was full of obvious NBA-caliber players at 11. Bey shot 45% from 3P last year. If he's anywhere close in the NBA, that's instant upside, especially from a guy who is a legit 6'8" and can get his shot off consistently. Echhh... nevermind. None of this will make sense to you.

You want to gamble? Empty your bank account. Go to Vegas. Put all your money on double-zero. Come back and tell me if you got rich.

I have actually seen quite a bit of full games of Saddiq. He's my 4th favourite target and I'm totally OK with drafting him. Your reasoning still doesn't make sense. If you plan to compete next season then by all means draft Saddiq. If you plan to tank and get a #2 draft pick, then go all-in and go for the highest upside player possible. Nobody assures you that you will get your franchise guy with that #2 pick. Tanking teams need to go all-in every year on the draft untill they get their guy.

[Chinook]

I totally understand that's why I may prefer Smith.
Precious is a PF not an undersized center, he can play some 5 but that's not his position. And you're right he could not play with poetl, with LA but not Jakob.
Offensively we agree but on defense he is better than you think imo.


Agree with Duncan here - Achiuwa is not a center, but a PF, who has the capacity, agility and mobility to be able to play small-ball 5, and do it well (not the Rudy Gay kind of "small ball 5). That's one of his main enticing features tbh, not a knack on his size at all. Do agree about his perimeter game being underdeveloped/underwhelming, but to be honest, if Precious had a fleshed out perimeter game, he'd be a top 3 pick in this weak draft. Concessions have to be made... And I think Precious, more than anything, has the tools to excel in his development, even if he isn't quite there yet. He's a willing, and capable, dribbler, especially in the open court but also on half-court offenses, has shown good passes especially when he drives, and has a good-looking form from deep that just hasn't had the reps to be better (1.3 attempts per game if I'm not mistaken). I don't see him developing into a first or second option on offense, but we also don't need him to - his finishing, verticality, PnR abilities, lob threat, rebounding, and especially defense are all things this team needs and will need moving forward. I also don't think Poeltl is a keeper (or at least, not a starter moving forward) so you have to take these things into account. If you can get a floor-spacing C (think Ibaka, but not Ibaka), that's a perfect frontcourt match.

The thing we'd be truly missing is a SF, preferrably a 3.5 forward, along the lines of Tatum or Brown. That's the missing piece - and that's where we tank next season, and go get our future star in next years' lottery picking. I think that's a very solid strategy the Spurs could take in order to quickly put together a very modern NBA team that's young, plays fast and in transition, can shoot from multiple positions, and has a lot of room to grow.

I could definitely be wrong, but I don't see him as a four at all. I really wish Teeds hadn't introduced that 2.5/3.5 nomenclature to this site. Modern-day PFs are 3.5s -- there's really not room for traditional fours anymore. There's no place for any one at the middle positions having a bad perimeter game and not being able to shoot. Even Brandon Clarke can shoot in controlled settings. I think he's a center who can play PF if he has the right partner. That's fine if he becomes Bam 2.0 (or Bam-Bam, if you will). I just don't see him having enough of an impact to change the front court around him.

Yes, I do think he could play with LMA. But I don't really think he can play with LMA, DeRozan and possibly Murray. What's his upside to where you commit to play four out-players around him? I'm glad that he seems to have something of a floor game, but like with Poke, I don't think that really matters unless his floor game is good enough to take the ball out of the hands of other players. Defensive fours (in my wish list) need to be able to shoot at a decent rate and defend perimeter players straight up. I don't see either of those things from Precious, so I don't see him as a high-value role-player. I also don't see him as a star, but then again, I didn't really see a ton from Bam either.

[talkspurs]

I think the next poll should have a spot for trade for bostons 2 picks. That is the one I would select as I think we could still get bey and one other good player. I also think boston would do it.

[duncan2150]

I could definitely be wrong, but I don't see him as a four at all. I really wish Teeds hadn't introduced that 2.5/3.5 nomenclature to this site. Modern-day PFs are 3.5s -- there's really not room for traditional fours anymore. There's no place for any one at the middle positions having a bad perimeter game and not being able to shoot. Even Brandon Clarke can shoot in controlled settings. I think he's a center who can play PF if he has the right partner. That's fine if he becomes Bam 2.0 (or Bam-Bam, if you will). I just don't see him having enough of an impact to change the front court around him.

Yes, I do think he could play with LMA. But I don't really think he can play with LMA, DeRozan and possibly Murray. What's his upside to where you commit to play four out-players around him? I'm glad that he seems to have something of a floor game, but like with Poke, I don't think that really matters unless his floor game is good enough to take the ball out of the hands of other players. Defensive fours (in my wish list) need to be able to shoot at a decent rate and defend perimeter players straight up. I don't see either of those things from Precious, so I don't see him as a high-value role-player. I also don't see him as a star, but then again, I didn't really see a ton from Bam either.

He is a better 3pt shooter than Clarke was at Gonzaga, you don't need four out player to play him imo. Juste don't pair him with a poetl type of player, but the limits are more on poetl than achiuwa.

Overall like I said I understand your point, we'll see how he will develop in the league.

[Sugus]

I could definitely be wrong, but I don't see him as a four at all. I really wish Teeds hadn't introduced that 2.5/3.5 nomenclature to this site. Modern-day PFs are 3.5s -- there's really not room for traditional fours anymore. There's no place for any one at the middle positions having a bad perimeter game and not being able to shoot. Even Brandon Clarke can shoot in controlled settings. I think he's a center who can play PF if he has the right partner. That's fine if he becomes Bam 2.0 (or Bam-Bam, if you will). I just don't see him having enough of an impact to change the front court around him.

Yes, I do think he could play with LMA. But I don't really think he can play with LMA, DeRozan and possibly Murray. What's his upside to where you commit to play four out-players around him? I'm glad that he seems to have something of a floor game, but like with Poke, I don't think that really matters unless his floor game is good enough to take the ball out of the hands of other players. Defensive fours (in my wish list) need to be able to shoot at a decent rate and defend perimeter players straight up. I don't see either of those things from Precious, so I don't see him as a high-value role-player. I also don't see him as a star, but then again, I didn't really see a ton from Bam either.

I can agree with this. The NBA is definitely trending smaller, though I do think there's real value in having guys that are the "appropriate size" (maybe we should call it "the old size"?) for their position, not only for versatility and matchups but also for switching schemes, rebounding, and just in general. For example, even though Lonnie and Keldon are both the "new size" to play SF, I'd much rather draft someone a bit longer, taller, and stronger than either of them (next draft with a lottery pick in order to get a ball-handling wing, á la Doncic, of course) at SF. I see wings like Tatum or Luka being the future of the league, and even though I haven't looked up their metrics I can tell both of them are "bigger" than Lonnie or Keldon, yet they wouldn't play the 4. This is debatable to be honest, I admit it, and I definitely don't think it's written in stone: the league is changing at a very rapid pace, and maybe this small-ball wave will bring out a counter-reaction in a few years. For now, I believe in what I wrote.

But I disagree with the second part of your comment. At no point do I think the Spurs should choose a draftee based on the players currently in the roster - I don't give a single shit whether LMA or DeMar can coexist with the player the Spurs want to draft. Said draftee is most likely going to Austin for at least half of next season, and both DD&LMA's contracts run out after next season (praying to the gods that neither get extended/resigned....), so why would that fit be something to be concerned about? If you're looking at our current roster, I agree Precious' fit is iffy and we'd lack shooting. Now, remove the vets (and DJ since I personally don't think he'll stay long term); a lineup of White-Lonnie-Keldon-?-Precious is much easier on the eyes, and I can see a good fit there, for the reasons I stated before.

[exstatic]

:lol Gotta give credit for the subtle trashtalk and high annoyance aspect of Chinook's insistence on calling him "Poke" when Pokusevski himself says his nickname is "Poku" and that's what every teammate, coach, and scout calls him. Well done.

https://www.instagram.com/poku_20/?hl=en

Dejounte added a couple of extra consonants to his name in the poll, too. :lol. Doesn’t bother me.

[ZeusWillJudge]

I have actually seen quite a bit of full games of Saddiq. He's my 4th favourite target and I'm totally OK with drafting him. Your reasoning still doesn't make sense. If you plan to compete next season then by all means draft Saddiq. If you plan to tank and get a #2 draft pick, then go all-in and go for the highest upside player possible. Nobody assures you that you will get your franchise guy with that #2 pick. Tanking teams need to go all-in every year on the draft untill they get their guy.


Just a difference of opinion, then. I think the Celtics are in a perfect position to gamble on a potentially high ceiling player. I think the Spurs HAVE to get something out of this pick. And I think that getting a solid piece this year, and then hoping for that lightning bolt next year with a 1-3 pick is their best shot at pulling themselves out of mediocrity. I'm not just talking about a pick, I'm talking about a strategy. Luck is not a strategy.

11 is a good pick, but not a great pick. The chance of hitting a home run with #11 are a LOT less than with 1-3. Hell, 1-6 for that matter. I think looking for a solid piece to add to their core is the way to go this trip. Then if they get a really high pick the next draft, plus have cap space to add a top tier veteran? We're back in business.

Like I said, if we were talking about the Celtics, with their roster and draft pick situation, I would place that bet on double zero. They've already built their core.

[exstatic]

Again, I think it would serve people well to make a distinction between a guy's realistic ceiling and his ideal ceiling. I know that sounds almost oxymoronic, but I feel like people are looking at guys like Poke and Precious in terms of what they could possibly develop into rather than what they can be expected to develop into. In terms of realistic ceilings, I don't see either of those guys being above Nesmith or regular Smith. That does not mean those two players are low-ceiling guys. They have marketable NBA skills and obvious paths to improvement. For reasons I've already talked about a ton, I don't see the same clear paths for the other players. If the Spurs somehow drafted both Smith and 'smith in this draft, I would feel good about projecting them as a team that would compete for HCA within three years. They'd still be missing a superstar, but they'd preserve cap space for sign one and have Walker, Murray, Sam and future picks to add to salary to try to trade for one.

Drafting say the next Khris Middleton or Josh Richardson is really valuable, even to a non-contender. The vague chance that someone hits a crazy development curve and becomes a star doesn't have infinite value.

No, because I think Boston would be on the other line with 14 and 26.

[Dejounte]

Dejounte added a couple of extra consonants to his name in the poll, too. :lol. Doesn’t bother me.

That was a legitimate typo. Man, y'all are some sensitive fucks.

[Dejounte]

Oh, the guy with the glasses, isn't it? Haven't gotten around to sitting and watching a full game of his yet, work has been heavy the past week or so. Definitely looked interesting from the few highlights I watched... Though I don't know where he's projected to go. I'd still take Achiuwa over him (my opinion might change on watching more film though), but if the Spurs trade down, he could be a very good piece.

Let me know when you watch a full game. His IQ is absurd and he steps up in clutch time and against high level competition.

[DAF86]

Just a difference of opinion, then. I think the Celtics are in a perfect position to gamble on a potentially high ceiling player. I think the Spurs HAVE to get something out of this pick. And I think that getting a solid piece this year, and then hoping for that lightning bolt next year with a 1-3 pick is their best shot at pulling themselves out of mediocrity. I'm not just talking about a pick, I'm talking about a strategy. Luck is not a strategy.

11 is a good pick, but not a great pick. The chance of hitting a home run with #11 are a LOT less than with 1-3. Hell, 1-6 for that matter. I think looking for a solid piece to add to their core is the way to go this trip. Then if they get a really high pick the next draft, plus have cap space to add a top tier veteran? We're back in business.

Like I said, if we were talking about the Celtics, with their roster and draft pick situation, I would place that bet on double zero. They've already built their core.

The Spurs got 11 this year, if they draft and immediate contributor their chances of being worse and getting a higher pick are not very likely, tbh. Not to be a Dick bro, but flawed logic, seriously.

[Sugus]

He is a better 3pt shooter than Clarke was at Gonzaga, you don't need four out player to play him imo. Juste don't pair him with a poetl type of player, but the limits are more on poetl than achiuwa.

Overall like I said I understand your point, we'll see how he will develop in the league.

LMAO I thought you were kidding, so I went looking...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/clarkbr01.html

Clarke shot a grand total of 15 3PA, of which he converted 4, his last year at Gonzaga. Previously had 6 and 3 whole 3PA in his previous two seasons. With Memphis, he's only shot 64 3PA, of which he made 23, good for .359%. Not exactly a "marksman", or a shooter, by any means.

For comparison, Achiuwa in his lone college season made 13 of his 40 3PA, good for 32.5%, and means Precious made double the 3pt shots in his lone college season, as Clarke made in his three entire college seasons. Not to mention the disparity in shot attempts, which clearly points at Achiuwa having the higher ceiling as a shooting prospect by far, because he's actively seeking these shots (and as I mentioned before, his form looks fine, another plus). His FT% is 60%, which could be higher, though... But now I definitely disagree with Chinook there, Clarke and Precious aren't close as prospects in regards to their shooting. Whether Achiuwa can develop an NBA-viable 3pt shot is a different matter entirely, and we can't know that, but if Clarke could do it after those disastrous outings in college, I have faith in Precious, lol.

[Chinook]

No, because I think Boston would be on the other line with 14 and 26.

Did you mean to respond to my hypothetical about Dallas rather than my post about ceilings?

[BackHome]

watching what tyler herro is doing for the heat because of his ability to shoot makes me fine with taking a chance on bey.

I so wanted Herro he kinda reminded me of Manu in that the dude just loves to compete he loves the game and he is going to lay it on the line every game.

[Dejounte]

The game vs Michigan State on Feb 15, 2020 is the game to watch of Jalen Smith. Clutch play, sets super important picks, just overall great BBall IQ.
Sugus

[Dejounte]

I was all in on Precious at one point. Then all in on Pat. Then all in on Nesmith. Then Isaiah. Now it's Jalen lmfao. Out of these five, Jalen definitely makes the most sense.

[rankingtear]

Clarke has a high level floater game though, and they still can't play him at 4 next to a non shooting center. I think the ideal four prospect in this draft in terms of skill is someone like Saddiq Bey or theoretically Pat/Poku. I can also see Keldon playing that position somewhat in the future. Big perimeter wings or big man with guard skills.

RC quotes on the 2019 post scrum about Luka, "He's a really skilled player at a position that now is requiring great skill in our league".

[ZeusWillJudge]

The Spurs got 11 this year, if they draft and immediate contributor their chances of being worse and getting a higher pick are not very likely, tbh. Not to be a Dick bro, but flawed logic, seriously.


Of course you're a dick. I've said over and over that it would also mean ditching either DDR or LMA, or both, and throwing the young guys into the fire. They would get their lottery pick next year, AND they would have young guys with solid court experience. Hopefully they would also acquire an additional pick or two as well, from the trade(s). And before you start pissing yourself about giving up one or both of their current best players, those two are gone after the upcoming season anyway. Might as well embrace the future and start building something new now.

You're going out of your way to be a dick. And that's giving you credit for not just being stupid.

[Chinook]

Heh. Nesmith and regular Smith. :D

You want Nesmith out there as a floor spacer, and that's not a bad thing at all. He's active as hell off the ball - made me think of Rip Hamilton a bit. He'd probably have to stay lean to keep that up, but he would help bend a defense with that kind of activity, as well as his shooting. Smith isn't super-quick, but I think he's one of those guys who will put on another 20 lbs. of muscle and still be just as quick as he is now. I just read a report earlier that said he wouldn't get much bigger (based on his skinny legs or something), but I disagree.

I don't think the Spurs would be able to get them both unless they pick up something earlier than #41, and I'm not super-excited about Nesmith at 11. But if you're looking to build a solid core those two would be a step in the right direction.

Yeah, I didn't mean to say that getting both is realistic, especially if LMA and DeRozan are still on the team. I guess if someone wants Murray for another mid-first, then it could work, but I'm not projecting that. My point was more that getting a couple of solid role-players would stabilize the future rotation and make it easier to jump into contention if they could somehow find a star. They might also parlay that good role-player into value from a contender (think Covington to Houston) or even as a piece in getting a star (Covington to Minny; Richardson to Philly).

I really want to draft Reed or at least Tillman. Hoping that happens is a big part of why I'm okay with drafting a smaller offensive wing with their first pick.

[Sugus]

Clarke has a high level floater game though, and they still can't play him at 4 next to a non shooting center. I think the ideal four prospect in this draft in terms of skill is someone like Saddiq Bey or theoretically Pat/Poku. I can also see Keldon playing that position somewhat in the future. Big perimeter wings or big man with guard skills.

RC quotes on the 2019 post scrum about Luka, "He's a really skilled player at a position that now is requiring great skill in our league".

Yeah, a shooting C is a priority in the event that we draft Achiuwa (well, technically, the Spurs could be seeing Precious as more of a 5 that can play the 4, than the other way around, which makes getting a shooting 4 the priority; I wonder whether they'd think Luka will fill that role in the future, and try to get a 3 instead whilst Luka blossoms). Agree also that Keldon could play some 4 in the future... Which is precisely why Achiuwa's versatility is so interesting: he's solid enough to hold his own as a small-ball 5 even against true Cs, whilst you can cram 4 guards behind him, and not the DD no D/no 3 kind of guards, but actual, modern-day guards who can all switch, shoot, defend at an above-average level. We already have about 4 guards who can fill that role, and we'd probably get at least another wing in my ideal scenario, so that's a really solid team already with lots of room to grow.

If the Spurs play their cards right, and draft good, this rebuild could last quite little. We'll have to see how next year, and its draft, goes; that's the true pivotal moment, IMO.

[Sugus]

The game vs Michigan State on Feb 15, 2020 is the game to watch of Jalen Smith. Clutch play, sets super important picks, just overall great BBall IQ.
Sugus

Playing it right now, thanks for the rec. Always a treat to watch games I don't know the ending to - and if I get to scout a prospect, all the better. So it's a C battle between Smith and Tillman, huh? Heard that name a few times already, should be interesting to see. Will get back to you with my impressions.

[Dejounte]

Playing it right now, thanks for the rec. Always a treat to watch games I don't know the ending to - and if I get to scout a prospect, all the better. So it's a C battle between Smith and Tillman, huh? Heard that name a few times already, should be interesting to see. Will get back to you with my impressions.

Cool. It actually took a games to build my impression of him, but this one is a good start. He does his damage in the second half.

[Dejounte]

I understand Precious' appeal of how mobile he looks and how he uses his speed to run all over the court, but I feel like that's a double edged sword. Watching Jalen is like the polar opposite. He's contained, does what he needs to do to guard his man, and if you watch enough, you'll catch these glimpses of playmaking that you see from Precious. He mentioned in an interview that opposing players are respecting his jumper now and that he's learning how to deal with that. If he already has solid shooting and interior scoring, I feel like that's a nice foundation to begin with on the offense. His handle isn't awful and I feel like once he learns how to attack closeouts, he can be a hell of a player. There's a stark contrast of when you watch Precious after watching Jalen, you kind of witness Precious not knowing where to be at times. The major thing that also drew me to Jalen is his shooting off the dribble. It's fucking impressive for someone his height and I feel like that's a gateway to being a star. Any big can spot up and shoot a jumper. But as you watch more and more of Jalen youll see how comfortable he looks shooting the ball in different ways.

Sugus

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/uw5HHirNET4

Look at how he glides to the basket at 10:20.

[Sugus]

Cool. It actually took a games to build my impression of him, but this one is a good start. He does his damage in the second half.

So, I watched Maryland vs Michigan. Full disclosure, I couldn't find a video of the entire uncut match, the most YouTube got me was a full-game highlights which was 23m long but had all the scores and some misses. If you have other games that he's made an impact, I'd like to see them (I'll probably just go over to the other thread, I saw you posted a few).

Here's some first impressions and observations I've drawn from the match. I liked his speed and agility: he had surprising control of his body while in air for his length, is really nimble and quick on the run, was mostly active either on the perimeter or searching for space on the inside. I liked that, he was constantly putting himself open out there, and was rewarded on a numerous times on this by getting easy scores near the basket. Him also freeing up the paint at times or staying on the perimeter ready for a catch-and-shoot is also good offensive awareness, he does look like he knows where to be on the court. Doesn't look lost or standing put in the corner like Lonnie does, for example.

I didn't have the best impression of his shooting, maybe he does better in other games but here he missed two, had another blocked by Tillman, and after watching another miss a couple times over, he seems to overdo the wrist flick a bit, and the shot comes out a bit flat, which makes it more propense to hit the backside of the rim and go in-out. Reminded me a bit of how Lebron shoots his 3pointers, obvious differences aside. I don't necessarily think it's a problem (most forms are fine as long as they're repeatable and reliable) and this definitely qualifies as something I'd have to watch out for in other games. Did have some midrange swishes which is good to see he has in his arsenal (already miles better than Jakob offensively, lol).

Beyond that, I thought he dropped down too far down when defending the PnR. Multiple times throughout the game, he's defending the ball-handler after the pick and drops quite too far to be able to recover and contest a pull-up shot, which caused multiple scores over him. Otherwise his man-to-man was good, he was overpowered at times by Tillman though - which brings me to my question. What's his outlook as a player, his projection for the NBA? I see he's playing mostly PF or C through the game, but he looks to be a little too-lightweigth. I think he could put on some muscle without losing too much of his speed and game, of course that can be developed. I liked his frame and build as well, similarly to Keldon he's a player that just has room for muscle, and wide, prominent shoulders. He could become a force to be reckoned with.

It's funny, I was under the impression that he had been a poor rebounder in this game, so I looked at the boxscore online and found out he'd had 10reb that game. I guess my video cut them out... Then heard he was on his 8th consecutive double-double. Impressive. On his defense, I thought he played some solid man-to-man on Tillman, who still went off, and Smith wasn't biting on his fakes in the post which I also liked. Jalen looks to be a disciplined defender, I didn't see him try to gamble for blocks or steals that were unrealistic. I didn't see much perimeter defense from him this game but he was clearly assigned to Tillman whenever he was on the floor, who played mostly inside.

I also didn't think this game was too good a showcase of his ball-handling (the few instances of it looked wonky) or his shooting, so I'll hold my judgment on it. But I liked most of what I saw from him; I didn't mention his screen setting so far, but I also liked that from him, he was consistently trying to get his teammates open and not just the main ball handler, which is really valuable.

I'll be checking out more of him. Where do you think he's going to go, pick wise? Tankathon has him going 19th but 15th on their big board... So #11 might be a bit of a reach (Spurs might still do it if they fall in love with Smith though), but I would really consider him if we traded down with Boston.

[Sugus]

I understand Precious' appeal of how mobile he looks and how he uses his speed to run all over the court, but I feel like that's a double edged sword. Watching Jalen is like the polar opposite. He's contained, does what he needs to do to guard his man, and if you watch enough, you'll catch these glimpses of playmaking that you see from Precious. He mentioned in an interview that opposing players are respecting his jumper now and that he's learning how to deal with that. If he already has solid shooting and interior scoring, I feel like that's a nice foundation to begin with on the offense. His handle isn't awful and I feel like once he learns how to attack closeouts, he can be a hell of a player. There's a stark contrast of when you watch Precious after watching Jalen, you kind of witness Precious not knowing where to be at times. The major thing that also drew me to Jalen is his shooting off the dribble. It's fucking impressive for someone his height and I feel like that's a gateway to being a star. Any big can spot up and shoot a jumper. But as you watch more and more of Jalen youll see how comfortable he looks shooting the ball in different ways.

Sugus

You're gonna have me watching film all night :lol I'm on his second game...

I see what you mean; Smith and Achiuwa are definitely two very different versions of the PF position. Precious certainly falls prey to lapses on the court, but I think those are coachable - I haven't seen something from him that makes me go "yeah, this guy doesn't have BBIQ at all" like I do with someone like Dejounte, who even then has gotten much better in his court awareness over where he was as a rookie. From the little I've watched of Smith, I like Precious' ball-handling more, it just looks more natural which is not an easy feat for a big man. I can see Smith's improving, but right now it looks like the classic big man dribble - and I don't know if it's good enough to consistently penetrate at the NBA level with his size. Even someone like Siakam, by all accounts a much better dribbler than either prospect which has earned him a place in the top 10 of big men in the league, is seeing against Boston that it's much harder to attack the rim and dribble around with a defense targeting you. I don't think Smith is doomed as a ball-handler, but it'll certainly take him some major work to reach a level where he can consistently be a primary penetrator instead of secondary.

Of course, that doesn't have to be who Smith becomes - as you said, just learning how to attack a closeout could turn him into a great player. But I see the more potential-filled face-up and dribble game for Precious, still. Just IMO. Beyond that, yeah, their shooting isn't really comparable. I don't see Precious ever getting an off-the-dribble pullup in his arsenal, whereas Smith has that potential. In a league like the modern NBA, that arguably gives him more value as a player than any kind of post-up game, so I'm interested in him. In fact, I wouldn't expect him to stay at #19 like Tankathon does, especially if the combine takes place and he has good measurements.

[XDT76]

I was all in on Precious at one point. Then all in on Pat. Then all in on Nesmith. Then Isaiah. Now it's Jalen lmfao. Out of these five, Jalen definitely makes the most sense.

I guess if we got one of those 5 we should not be upset, I would prefer Jalen at this moment of time he is a more high level all rounder now. The rest all are more of specialist at this moment of time with possible higher ceiling than Jalen. (I am not familiar with Isaiah though).

[BackHome]

I see Precious as more of 4 - 5 and Smith being more of 3 - 4. I guess at this point you look at who has more upside and who you think fits into your long term plan.

[wildbill2u]

I have a formula for upside potential. Below the 5-10 picks the guy will probably only get to 75% of his upside potential. Below 10-20 probably less than 60% . Now these are not taking into consideration the anomaly of the number 20 who becomes a superstar or one of the 20-30 who becomes a superstar. Shit happens, drafting is all about scouting, not highlight reels, but draft day potential is always subjective. You simply can't factor in injuries, bad conduct, or a team buying into the hype

[exstatic]

I have a formula for upside potential. Below the 5-10 picks the guy will probably only get to 75% of his upside potential. Below 10-20 probably less than 60% . Now these are not taking into consideration the anomaly of the number 20 who becomes a superstar or one of the 20-30 who becomes a superstar. Shit happens, drafting is all about scouting, not highlight reels, but draft day potential is always subjective. You simply can't factor in injuries, bad conduct, or a team buying into the hype

That’s a bit of a choppy formula. Someone posted a graphic a while ago about win shares for each draft position. It’s a little smoother curve, except for that bump at the end of the first round generated by the Spurs over the years. The reality is that you can’t attach a percentage to a range of draft positions without factoring in the teams. Phoenix went the better part of a decade with high picks, blowing it time after time. SA went basically that same period of time with late round picks, and developed productive players who are still in the league. Both of those situations defy your tiered approach.

[Larry O]

The talk is that this Draft Class is underwhelming & perhaps there may be a few, if any, players that has All Star caliber & can build a team around. There are some draft prospects in this draft, especially were the Spurs will draft at eleven, that can either contribute right away or become a project, sending him to Austin for a season. Of coarse, when selecting a draft prospect, it's like gambling. A team will not know what they are getting perhaps by the end of the third or fourth year, unless the player is an All Star or will be an All Star soon. Any ways, it's really hard to read what PATFO wants to draft in this class, let alone in any former selections, TBH. Do they want someone who's ready to contribute right away, in other words, have a high floor ceiling or are they willing to take on a project or someone with high ceiling for development? What are they going to do with LMA, DeRozan, Forbes, Beli, Gay, Poetl, Lyles, etc, going forward? Are they looking to retaining some of these key players, especially like LMA & DeRozan, or perhaps look to free agency for another All Star or role player? So, for me, I just think that there are some key deciding factors in choosing a player at eleven. Could he be the next Leonard in respect for talent and team impact as a above average 3 & D player, with All Star potential, or will he just be a decent role player? After looking at some of the prospects that may land at eleven for the Spurs, there are choices such as: Williams, Nesmith, Okoro, Vassell, Achiuwa, Pokusevski, who is projected at 18, & another ST fav, Jalen Smith, who is projected from 20-30, well, my favorite in this prospect bunch who could land at eleven is Saddiq Bey, a 6'8" combo forward who is a 3&D player who can hit the threes & guard 1-4 positions. With a 6'11" wingspan, he comes in at 216 lbs. He has a high floor ceiling but perhaps a low development ceiling, but he has a high BBIQ, & the 21 year old hails from Villanova, a program whose philosophy hangs its hat on defense & ball movement. That is why I think that he would fit well on this team. Even hearing one of his interviews, he was impressive as to his knowledge of the game. He sounded like a Spur! I believe that this one time PG may be able to contribute right away, either as a starter or coming off the bench, depending on the direction PATFO decides to go. But any one of those prospects on the afore mentioned list, would not disappoint, as well. GSG!!!

[Dejounte]

Here's some first impressions and observations I've drawn from the match. I liked his speed and agility: he had surprising control of his body while in air for his length, is really nimble and quick on the run, was mostly active either on the perimeter or searching for space on the inside. I liked that, he was constantly putting himself open out there, and was rewarded on a numerous times on this by getting easy scores near the basket. Him also freeing up the paint at times or staying on the perimeter ready for a catch-and-shoot is also good offensive awareness, he does look like he knows where to be on the court. Doesn't look lost or standing put in the corner like Lonnie does, for example.


Great catch.


I didn't have the best impression of his shooting, maybe he does better in other games but here he missed two, had another blocked by Tillman, and after watching another miss a couple times over, he seems to overdo the wrist flick a bit, and the shot comes out a bit flat, which makes it more propense to hit the backside of the rim and go in-out. Reminded me a bit of how Lebron shoots his 3pointers, obvious differences aside. I don't necessarily think it's a problem (most forms are fine as long as they're repeatable and reliable) and this definitely qualifies as something I'd have to watch out for in other games. Did have some midrange swishes which is good to see he has in his arsenal (already miles better than Jakob offensively, lol).


Agreed. I read from a scout that his mechanics are not broken and he just needs to be taught to aim it higher. It explains his lower percentages in guarded situations. His shot looks pure and it looks like he just needs more confidence to keep shooting.


Beyond that, I thought he dropped down too far down when defending the PnR. Multiple times throughout the game, he's defending the ball-handler after the pick and drops quite too far to be able to recover and contest a pull-up shot, which caused multiple scores over him. Otherwise his man-to-man was good, he was overpowered at times by Tillman though - which brings me to my question. What's his outlook as a player, his projection for the NBA? I see he's playing mostly PF or C through the game, but he looks to be a little too-lightweigth. I think he could put on some muscle without losing too much of his speed and game, of course that can be developed. I liked his frame and build as well, similarly to Keldon he's a player that just has room for muscle, and wide, prominent shoulders. He could become a force to be reckoned with.

I agree he dropped too far down. I'm hoping it's a discipline thing that can be fixed. I like his defensive stance over Samanic's. At least he's trying.

And yes, he gets overpowered from time to time by centers like Tillman. I think he'll be a PF in the NBA. His game and movement looks like it will become a hybrid of KG's and Siakam's.



It's funny, I was under the impression that he had been a poor rebounder in this game, so I looked at the boxscore online and found out he'd had 10reb that game. I guess my video cut them out... Then heard he was on his 8th consecutive double-double. Impressive. On his defense, I thought he played some solid man-to-man on Tillman, who still went off, and Smith wasn't biting on his fakes in the post which I also liked. Jalen looks to be a disciplined defender, I didn't see him try to gamble for blocks or steals that were unrealistic. I didn't see much perimeter defense from him this game but he was clearly assigned to Tillman whenever he was on the floor, who played mostly inside.


This is accurate. He's disciplined when it comes to 1 on 1 defense. He was only occasionally able to showcase his perimeter defense, but he has acknowledged in an interview that it is something he is preparing for (to guard the likes of quick guards like Irving)



I'll be checking out more of him. Where do you think he's going to go, pick wise? Tankathon has him going 19th but 15th on their big board... So #11 might be a bit of a reach (Spurs might still do it if they fall in love with Smith though), but I would really consider him if we traded down with Boston.

I think he'll go 11th ;)

[Dejounte]

You're gonna have me watching film all night :lol I'm on his second game...

I see what you mean; Smith and Achiuwa are definitely two very different versions of the PF position. Precious certainly falls prey to lapses on the court, but I think those are coachable - I haven't seen something from him that makes me go "yeah, this guy doesn't have BBIQ at all" like I do with someone like Dejounte, who even then has gotten much better in his court awareness over where he was as a rookie. From the little I've watched of Smith, I like Precious' ball-handling more, it just looks more natural which is not an easy feat for a big man. I can see Smith's improving, but right now it looks like the classic big man dribble - and I don't know if it's good enough to consistently penetrate at the NBA level with his size. Even someone like Siakam, by all accounts a much better dribbler than either prospect which has earned him a place in the top 10 of big men in the league, is seeing against Boston that it's much harder to attack the rim and dribble around with a defense targeting you. I don't think Smith is doomed as a ball-handler, but it'll certainly take him some major work to reach a level where he can consistently be a primary penetrator instead of secondary.

Of course, that doesn't have to be who Smith becomes - as you said, just learning how to attack a closeout could turn him into a great player. But I see the more potential-filled face-up and dribble game for Precious, still. Just IMO. Beyond that, yeah, their shooting isn't really comparable. I don't see Precious ever getting an off-the-dribble pullup in his arsenal, whereas Smith has that potential. In a league like the modern NBA, that arguably gives him more value as a player than any kind of post-up game, so I'm interested in him. In fact, I wouldn't expect him to stay at #19 like Tankathon does, especially if the combine takes place and he has good measurements.

I agree. Precious' ball handling looks ahead of Smith's right now. I just feel like with Smith's smarts on the court will earn him minutes faster thereby expediting his development faster over if Precious was on this team. Watching Precious sometimes makes me pull my hair out. I feel like Smith has a set of tools that are simply ready-to-go, much like Keldon was. People will say he looks like he has a lower ceiling, but if he gets drafted and starts putting up double doubles I think their minds will change.

[Sugus]

Agreed. I read from a scout that his mechanics are not broken and he just needs to be taught to aim it higher. It explains his lower percentages in guarded situations. His shot looks pure and it looks like he just needs more confidence to keep shooting.

Yeah, for sure something that's fixable. I watched some other highlights of his, and he doesn't look to have a bad form at all, quite efficient and repeatable. I don't doubt that he could turn into a truly respectable shooter from 3, which would open up his inside game. I'm liking what I'm seeing from him.


I agree he dropped too far down. I'm hoping it's a discipline thing that can be fixed. I like his defensive stance over Samanic's. At least he's trying.

I'm thinking it might be more of a defensive scheme than anything. I'm sure long 2's off the PnR aren't the most valuable shots to any coach, so conceding them might've been the plan. I haven't watched enough games to know for sure... Surely looks adjustable with a new scheme in place. I also like his defensive instincts, the guy is just constantly mobile and on his feet - quite relentless. With his length, he has the potential to be a very disruptive defender, especially if he learns to play passing lanes and interceptions. Certainly seems to have a good BBIQ which gives him a higher ceiling on both ends.


And yes, he gets overpowered from time to time by centers like Tillman. I think he'll be a PF in the NBA. His game and movement looks like it will become a hybrid of KG's and Siakam's.

Agree on that, especially considering the "new NBA size" where 4's are more often than not yesteryear's 3s. I'd like to see Smith develop his handle and playmaking more, since he certainly has the speed to expand on that front, but of course it's something you work on over the seasons. Really reminded me of Siakam too when watching some more film. Just a good prototypical modern 4. His post game is intriguing as well... Seems to have good timing and fakes in his repertoire, and his rebounding near the basket opens up a lot of second-chance opportuinites. For a team as rebounding-deprived as the Spurs currently are, that's a great fit.


This is accurate. He's disciplined when it comes to 1 on 1 defense. He was only occasionally able to showcase his perimeter defense, but he has acknowledged in an interview that it is something he is preparing for (to guard the likes of quick guards like Irving)

Yeah, I'm not too worried. We don't need him to be able to defend the Irvings of the league too much, except for some switches here and there - as long as he isn't so slow or flat-footed as to be a liability, we can cover him with some of our other guards. I'd like to see how he develops on D with Timmy coaching him up...


I think he'll go 11th ;)

I didn't even have him on my radar until one of your posts, but I certainly wouldn't be opposed after watching him some. You talk about Precious vs Smith in your other post, and I tend to agree that even though Precious is the superior ball-handler for now, he doesn't look to have the higher IQ. I don't think it's a death sentence nor something that can't be worked on, and he certainly doesn't look as dumb as Dejounte for example, but it's a valid concern. I personally would love to trade down and get both if possible... Spurs might just fix their long-term frontcourt in a single draft, then have next year to fish for their star ball-handling 3 in the lottery while the team develops. Of course, it's a bit of a pipe dream, but until more accurate reports come out... I'm daydreaming.

[wildbill2u]

Amazing how many of us voted for Poku Spurs fans going for the biggest question mark in the draft with the big upside

[pad300]

Amazing how many of us voted for Poku Spurs fans going for the biggest question mark in the draft with the big upside

It's pretty clear that this team needs a needle mover, not a good roleplayer... Of the PF's and C's we're discussing at 11, he's the one with the chance to be a big difference maker.

[MultiTroll]

Tacko Falls brother Nacho.