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Ghost Writer
07-11-2003, 12:21 PM
I don't think the Spurs are ready to give up on their quest to replace Robinson with a star this summer.

With O'Neal and Kidd re-signing wiht their current teams, the only big name left out there is the restricted free agent Elton Brand — a PF/C who many people ranked at the top of their lists for this summer.

The Spurs reportedly already asked about a sign-and-trade for Brand and were turned down.

Brand's agent David Faulk is cautioning Brand against accepting an offer for the max from Utah because he thinks Clips owner Donald Sterling will match and Brand will be locked into playing for the Clippers for years to come.

If Brand gets the max from Sterling, is that such a horrible thing to play for the other LA team?

Wouldn't it be worth the gamble that Sterling won't match an offer from Utah or SA?

Of course, the alternative is just re-signing for one year with the Clippers and becoming unrestricted next year and then Brand can sign outright with whatever team he wants.

If the Spurs extend an offer to Brand and he accepts, they'd have to wait for 15 days for Sterling to decide if he would match.

Other free agents could be signed during that time, but I feel no one is left that is worth giving a shot at landing Brand.

The Spurs front office can't be satisfied with scooping up the leftovers. The oness is on them to do more than maintain or marginally improve the team, with the Lakers adding two perennial All-Stars.

The urgency to get Brand should be apparent.

The front office must decide to extend Brand an offer and convince him to accept.




:cooldevil

ducks
07-11-2003, 12:23 PM
first they must secure atleast pj brown.

spursfaninla
07-11-2003, 12:27 PM
I think the spurs need insurance at this point. PJ sounds to me like he fits the bill. With the further development of our back court, another year for sjax, parker and manu to get better, we do not need a star center.

If we get pj, can we still afford Brand? That is the question.

I think no.

Brand is just not going to happen this year.

Sorry Ghost, going for broke with 2 aces is just not smart.

MannyIsGod
07-11-2003, 12:30 PM
It's an all or nothing gamble, and I don't think we should try it.

UNLESS we have a good feeling sterling is full of shit, but i honestly don't think he is.

ducks
07-11-2003, 12:32 PM
sterling is not going to match all of them...

maybe a sign a trade can still happen though

scott
07-11-2003, 12:32 PM
The Clips can still sign and trade Brand if there is an outstanding offer sheet- but you cannot sign and trade to the team that extended the offer sheet.

So, with that said, how about this possible alternative, Ghost.

We allow Utah to offer the max contract, and then swoop in with a S&T offer.

If Sterling rejects us, it will be because he wants to keep Brand and is going to match the offer.

If Sterling is on the fence between matching and not matching, maybe the compensation we offer will make losing Brand okay with him- and we get Brand in the S&T.

If Sterling is not going to match, he would rather get SOMETHING in return that losing Brand outright. In this case, we get Brand.

If it doesn't look like Utah will extend the offer sheet, then we go ahead and do it.

Whaddya think?

Archie
07-11-2003, 12:34 PM
The Spurs have to give up real value in a S&T for Brand (ie Parker).

Most likely, if someone extends Brand a max offer sheet then other GMs around the league will call up Sterling and tell him that they will trade with him later next season for Brand if he matches the offer.

genghisrex
07-11-2003, 12:36 PM
We allow Utah to offer the max contract, and then swoop in with a S&T offer.Once Brand signs a team's offer sheet, he's either going to that team or staying on the Clips (if they match). LA cannot sign-and-trade to anyone (including Utah) if Brand signs an offer from the Jazz.

Ghost Writer
07-11-2003, 12:39 PM
"We allow Utah to offer the max contract, and then swoop in with a S&T offer." — scott
This is the best idea I've heard all day, scott. Way to put on your thinking cap this early in the morning!

Given the history of sterling, he probably would accept cash and picks and a player to avoid paying the max.


I can hardly acknowledge the people who would rather throw money at PJ Brown than pursue Brand for 15 days.



:cooldevil

Archie
07-11-2003, 12:40 PM
Ghost, read genghis' lesson and STFU.

MannyIsGod
07-11-2003, 12:42 PM
ghost, you must have your stupid cap on this morning.

PJ brown along with another FA keeps us competative.

Having Sterling match Brand, and losing Jax Speedy and all the other available FA's out there leaves as a 6th seed.

Get a fucking clue!

T Park Num 9
07-11-2003, 12:45 PM
Brand aint comin either

resign the FAs then sign PJ Brown and some other Vets like Leonard and others.


Thats the best Idea that I can see right now.

Waiting on Brand and loosing out on PJ Brown would be a BIG mistake.

PJ Brown > 03 David Robinson.

smackdaddy11
07-11-2003, 12:45 PM
I can hardly acknowledge the people who would rather throw money at PJ Brown than pursue Brand for 15 days.

Then expect PJ in Dallas or back in NO because he won't wait that long.

If we don't get Brand then I guess we will be down to whatever FA is left. By then, most will be off the board since the Kidd domino has fallen.

spursfaninla
07-11-2003, 12:45 PM
at the blackjack table that just lost his biggest bet yet, then doubles down on the next one.

When you hit a losing streak, know when to walk away from the table.

pj=at least as good as we were, guranteed.

brand=most likely we get screwed, maybe 20% chance we get away with it.

Not worth the risk.

plus see gengis.

scott
07-11-2003, 12:46 PM
Disregard my S&T idea then. I was basing my ideas on some erroneous information.

Going after Brand doesn't cause us to lose Speedy or Jack, Manny- nor does it really cause us to miss out on other FAs.

Brand is a 25% FA, giving us 2.125 million in addition to the 3.8 million MB calculated after a 30% FA with a 42.5M cap. With 5.925 Million, we will still be able to go after some nice players while the Brand offer is out on the table.

spursfaninla
07-11-2003, 12:48 PM
"some nice players"...

Do you think pj will come for that at this point?

I think that is possible, but not a lock.

I was thinking 6 myself....

Truthsayer
07-11-2003, 12:49 PM
If Brand is unwilling to roll the dice by signing an offer sheet with Utah, why would he change his mind with the Spurs. If he doesn't mind playing for the Clippers, then he will sign with them. If he hates playing for the Clippers he would be a fool to sign an offer sheet. I just don't see it happening unless Sterling signs 'Kandi, Maggette, and Odom first and then maybe considers Brand more expendable. Doesn't seem like a likely scenario.

If PJ is ready to sign, we need to sign him before Denver, Miami, N.O., Utah, or some one else scoops him up while we are chasing a pipe dream.

PJ can give us the same numbers Robinson gave us last year. That means we could go into the coming season no worse off than last year, and with Manu, Parker, and Jack having another year of experience under their belts, we could be quite a bit better.

The Lakers look like they are going to be tough to beat, but the experiment has yet to prove it will work. Those guys are all used to getting their shots. If there is high drama with Snaq and Kobe fighting for attention, imagine how it will be now. Also (and I don't wish this to happen but it might) Kobe might be going into this season with a major distraction because of the Colorado incident. He might not even be available for a big part of the season. Again, I hope he is innocent and this whole mess blows over, but latest reports out of Colorado make me think that the DA is expecting DNA evidence and is just waiting for that before seeking an indictment. He doesn't want to be accused of a "rush to judgment." Again, I wish the best for Kobe if he is innocent.

ducks
07-11-2003, 12:50 PM
pj was thinking magic or spurs.

howard signed with magic

MannyIsGod
07-11-2003, 12:50 PM
actually scott, you're right.

I had forgotten his is less on the cap.

Interesting, is it worth the gamble if we can secure jax and speedy or jax and brown? Perhaps.

scott
07-11-2003, 12:51 PM
PJ Brown is not going to stiff us over $75,000- especially since the Tax Effect in San Antonio for a mid-level type contract is around 100-150K.

MannyIsGod
07-11-2003, 12:55 PM
we don't know if he's unwilling to sign an offer sheet with UTAH because its not july 16th yet.

scott
07-11-2003, 12:56 PM
Some things to consider about Elton Brand:

Mike Dunleavey is going to be the Clippers head coach. Is this the signal to Brand they are trying to turn the corner on competitiveness? Will this entice Brand to stay?

The Clippers drafted two PFs, Wilcox and Eli, with lottery picks last season.

The Clippers used their lotto pick this year on another bust-to-be C, Kaman, and the 4/5 Snuffaluffagus.

Do these youngsters make Brand expendable? If Brand is in the Clips future, maybe Wilcox or Eli can be had for some future draft picks and some cash?

Archie
07-11-2003, 12:59 PM
Not a bad idea scott but Sterling is just an odd duck. He'll probably wait those rookie contracts out or just deal them for players currently on rookie deals.

Parker would be extremely attractive to him. I don't see anything outside of Parker that Sterling would want back from the Spurs in a sign and trade.

scott
07-11-2003, 01:02 PM
Without Kidd, I'd have to think that Parker would be as untouchable as a Spur (outside of Duncan) can be.

Of course our capspace is a moot point in trying to deal with LA, since they have plenty of their own.

Aside from a handful of future picks (which are all but assured to be late in the first round as long as Duncan is healthy) we really dont have anything to offer LA.

Can't hurt to try though.

Ghost Writer
07-11-2003, 01:04 PM
Well, scrap scott's initial plan then.


Sorry Manny, if we sign Brown, there will be no money left to extend Brand a max offer sheet.

We would need Brown and Brand anyway.

Is this what this summer has come to?

Passing at offering a contract to Brand for fear of losing Brown?

Losing Brown to who?


I must remind you folks that the Spurs barely got past Kobe & Shaq this season. They are playing with Payton and Malone now.


Grip it up.


:cooldevil

grjr
07-11-2003, 01:06 PM
Once Brand signs a team's offer sheet, he's either going to that team or staying on the Clips (if they match). LA cannot sign-and-trade to anyone (including Utah) if Brand signs an offer from the Jazz.

I'm thinking this is not correct. I always understood it to be you could still Sign & Trade him to anyone but the team he signed the offer sheet with. Of course, Brand would still have to agree to the S &T and could say no if he didn't like the team he would go to.

Also, I've heard it bandied about that we could offer Sterling picks or something so he wouldn't match our offer sheet. This is illegal and can't be done.

jr

MannyIsGod
07-11-2003, 01:06 PM
would you trade parker and hand the reigns to speedy if it meant getting brand?

I think I'd do that in a heartbeat, would suck to send him to LALA land though :-/

scott
07-11-2003, 01:09 PM
Can anyone clarify the situation with a S&T involving a player who has signed an offer sheet?

grjr
07-11-2003, 01:09 PM
I would have only traded Parker if we had Kidd. No way I would do that now.

jr

kohai
07-11-2003, 01:11 PM
grjr - INCORRECT. If there is an offer sheet signed, Sterling has TWO, and only two optioins: Match, or let go. He CANNOT work a S&T with a third team.

Archie
07-11-2003, 01:13 PM
scott, I believe that genghis had an answer on that.

scott
07-11-2003, 01:15 PM
members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#74 (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#74)


74. Can a free agent be signed and immediately traded?
Under no circumstances can a team sign and then trade another team's free agent. But there is a special rule that allows teams to re-sign their own free agents for trading purposes, called the sign-and-trade rule. Under the sign-and-trade rule, the player is re-signed and immediately traded to another team. This is done by adding a clause to the contract which stipulates that the contract is invalid if the player's rights are not traded to the specific team within 48 hours.

A sign-and-trade deal can be made even with players that have been renounced. However, a sign-and-trade deal cannot be made when the player was signed using the Mid-Level, $1 Million or Disabled Player exception. Sign-and-trade deals are only allowed if the contract is for three years or longer (however, only the first season of the contract must be guaranteed).

One complication with sign-and-trade deals is that the signed player can immediately become a BYC player (see question number 71 for more information on BYC), so it's the player's BYC value that must be used when determining whether the trade is allowed.

See question number 78 for more information on how long a team must wait after signing a contract before they can trade a player


Nothing about players with outstanding offer sheets.

MissAllThat
07-11-2003, 01:16 PM
I've thought the Spurs should have made an offer on him since the beginning; they (and many others) however where blinded by Kidd's star status. Now, we definately do have to make an offer, but if he decides to sign a one-year deal with the Clips, maybe we should just wait for him until next year.

genghisrex
07-11-2003, 01:16 PM
Losing Brown to who?Ghost, FAs can't be expected to just sit around and wait for the Spurs to decide. Maybe some will, but last summer a lot of players waited around to try for more money and many got screwed (e.g. Voshon Lenard). If we tell a guy like P.J. Brown, wait 15 days and then we might sign you, he's likely to turn around and re-sign in New Orleans, go to Dallas (they lost out on Zo and Karl so you'd better believe P.J. is next), or maybe even follow Silas up to Cleveland. I'd love to land Brand, but he's such a longshot that unless the Clips agree to a sign-and-trade, I don't think it's worth signing him to an offer.

CosmicCowboyXXX
07-11-2003, 01:16 PM
why are we STILL talking about Brand????...

Sterling HAS TO PAY AT LEAST ONE MAX SALARY just to get within the leagues MINIMUM SALARY GUIDELINES...

everyone KNOWS he is gonna give it to Brand, either matching or with a one year...

Archie
07-11-2003, 01:17 PM
scott, look up restricted free agents on that FAQ.

scott
07-11-2003, 01:19 PM
83. When can't a player be traded? Can players be given "no-trade" clauses in their contracts?
A "no-trade" clause can be negotiated into an individual contract if the player has been in the NBA for at least eight seasons, and has played for the team with which he is signing for at least four seasons. They don't have to be the immediately prior four seasons -- for example, Horace Grant got a no-trade clause from Orlando when he signed with them in 2001. He had played for Orlando for four seasons, but had played for Seattle and Los Angeles in the interim. Very few players actually have one of these no-trade provisions. Otherwise, individually negotiated contracts may not contain no-trade clauses. The no-trade clause prevents the team from making a trade involving the player without the player's consent.

In addition, teams cannot trade players under the following circumstances:

-For two months after receiving the player in trade, if the player is being traded in combination with other players. However, the team is free to trade the player by himself (not packaged with other players) immediately. This two-month restriction applies only to teams over the salary cap. (Also see question number 70 for a special case where players can be traded together in less than two months.)

-When the trading deadline has passed. Teams are free to make trades again once their season has ended, but cannot trade players whose contracts are ending or could end due to an option.

-For three months or until December 15th of that season (whichever is later) after signing a contract as a free agent or draft rookie. (Note: This does not apply to players who sign contract extensions or who renegotiate their existing contracts. These players may be traded immediately.)

-When the player is playing under a one-year contract and will have Larry Bird or Early Bird rights at the end of the contract. Note: This includes first round draft picks following their fourth (option) season, who accept their team's qualifying offer for their fifth season.

-For one year after exercising the right of first refusal to keep a restricted free agent (however, the player can consent to a trade to any team except the team that tried to sign him).

-After claiming a player on waivers, for 30 days if the player was claimed during a season, or until the first day of the next season if the player was claimed during the offseason.

There seems to be a lot of confusion about the first bullet item above. A lot of media mistakenly report that a player cannot be re-traded for two months under any circumstances, even by himself. This is not true -- Danny Manning's trade from Phoenix to Orlando, and soon thereafter to Milwaukee is one example of the correct application of this trade rule. Other media reports confuse the sign-and-trade rule with this one, claiming that the player can be re-traded within 48 hours or after 60 days, but not in between.

The fourth bullet item above (players with one-year contracts can't be traded if they will be a Bird or Early Bird free agent) has an interesting implication. If a player has a two-year contract, but the second year is an option year, then the league treats it like a one-year contract and does not allow the player to be traded. If the option is exercised and the contract becomes a true two-year contract, then the player is tradeable. The Phoenix Suns had to exercise their team option on Corrie Blount before trading him to Golden State on 1/26/01.


This reads like we can do a S&T. The Clips match our behalf and Brand consents to be traded to us, since we did not try to sign him.

scott
07-11-2003, 01:20 PM
No talk of trades on the RFA section, Archie.

Archie
07-11-2003, 01:21 PM
members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#34 (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#34)

scott
07-11-2003, 01:31 PM
A signed offer sheet can be rescinded within the 15 day waiting period if all three parties (the player and the two teams) agree. However, they could not do this in order to engineer a better deal (such as a sign-and-trade arrangement) between the teams.

That is the only part of the RFA section that has any talk of trades- but it refers to the original team (Clippers) and the offering team (Jazz).

grjr
07-11-2003, 01:32 PM
(f) After exercising its Right of First Refusal as described in this Section 6, the ROFR Team may not trade the Restricted Free Agent for one (1) year, without the player’s consent. Even with the player’s consent, for one (1) year, neither the ROFR Team exercising its Right of First Refusal nor any other Team may trade the player to the Team whose Offer Sheet was matched.

Here you go. The Clips could match the offer and then trade to any other team but only with the player's consent. After a year they could trade to anyone.

jr

scott
07-11-2003, 01:34 PM
Looks like my original idea is back in effect.

grjr
07-11-2003, 01:38 PM
The only thing is Scott that the player has to agree to the trade if it's within a year. Would a free agent agree to go somewhere where he didn't sign an offer sheet? Presumably he wanted to go to the team that he signed the offer with originally.

Plus, this way it's not like a sign and trade where the player can get max increases. He would get the matched salary and 10% increases.

jr

Ghost Writer
07-11-2003, 01:39 PM
Archie sends his apologies, scott.

PJ Brown is a dependable PF/C, but I'll roll the dice for two weeks to see if we can get Brand first.

I doubt Nesterovic, Olowokandi, et al will also sign during that time period.

Brand is too good not to perform due dilligence with.

:cooldevil

genghisrex
07-11-2003, 01:40 PM
scott, an offer is in effect a contract between the player and the offering team -- it counts against said team's cap and everything. The only way to break that contract is for the original team to exercise its right of first refusal and match the offer. The team cannot engineer a s&t while the offer is outstanding. There isn't any direct reference to s&t's, but it's implied. Look at the CBA:
(d) If, within fifteen (15) days from the date it receives an Offer Sheet, the ROFR Team gives to the Restricted Free Agent a "First Refusal Exercise Notice" substantially in the form of Exhibit H annexed hereto, such Restricted Free Agent and the ROFR Team shall be deemed to have entered into a Player Contract containing all the Principal Terms included in the Uniform Player Contract attached to the Offer Sheet.

(e) If the ROFR Team does not give the First Refusal Exercise Notice within the aforementioned fifteen (15) day period, the player and the New Team shall be deemed to have entered into a Player Contract containing all of the terms and conditions included in the Uniform Player Contract attached to the Offer Sheet.

(f) After exercising its Right of First Refusal as described in this Section 6, the ROFR Team may not trade the Restricted Free Agent for one (1) year, without the player’s consent. Even with the player’s consent, for one (1) year, neither the ROFR Team exercising its Right of First Refusal nor any other Team may trade the player to the Team whose Offer Sheet was matched.www.nbpa.org/cba/articleXI.html#section6 (http://www.nbpa.org/cba/articleXI.html#section6)

(d) and (e) are the only avenues available to the original team once the offer is signed. (f) is the only way the player can be traded by the team within one year of matching the offer.

Archie
07-11-2003, 01:44 PM
Apologize for what, GhostWanker?

scott
07-11-2003, 01:45 PM
Genghis,

So for the Spurs to call the Clips to match on our behalf and then work a trade later (with Brand's consent) would be tampering?

Even then, upon learning that Utah will extend an offer sheet (but before Brand signs it), what is stopping us from calling up the Clips and Brand's agent and trying to work a S&T then?

The Offer Sheet is meaningless until Brand signs it, right?

scott
07-11-2003, 01:49 PM
No need for anyone to apologize about anything. Most likely I'm wrong, since I am an admitted idiot when it comes to the CBA.

We are just a bunch of Spurs Fans tossing around a way to get Elton Brand in a Spurs uniform without running the risk of losing out on other FAs.

genghisrex
07-11-2003, 01:51 PM
Yes, Brand has to sign an offer sheet for it to mean anything. I don't know if RC calling Baylor and telling him to match would be tampering (more like collusion :wink ), but why make a deal in such a roundabout way? If the Clips are willing to s&t Brand to us, why not just work that out with Brand and his agent to begin with? Either way, Elton has to agree to come to SA so there's no use in tricking him into signing the Jazz offer and then trading for him.

scott
07-11-2003, 01:56 PM
Well, the Jazz offer puts Sterling up against the wall. Whereas he may not be willing to work a S&T when there are no teams offering to take him away (and he can retain Brand on the cheap for at least 1 year)- things change when he is actually faced with the reality of having to pay Brand the max.

At least, that is my thinking.

Ghost Writer
07-11-2003, 02:00 PM
The Spurs front office can't be ready to throw in the towel and settle for PJ Brown after clearing cap space for two years and witnessing the Lakers add Malone and Payton.


:cooldevil

Truthsayer
07-11-2003, 02:08 PM
Its not throwing in the towel if they have already been in touch with the interested parties and know that it isn't going to happen. Just because we are in the dark about who they have talked to and what they are saying doesn't mean that they are in the dark. Maybe Brand's agent has already told Pop that Brand is not going to sign any offer sheets. We can't assume that if the Spurs sign PJ its because they didn't have the balls to go after Brand. That would just be an assumption on your part.

But then that wouldn't be anything new. You assumed that we could have gotten Weber and now Weber admits he didn't even call Pop back. You assumed we could have gotten Spree, when you have no evidence of that. You assume that we could have had Payton, but at what cost you really can't say. etc. etc.

You are really quick to make derisive comments without knowing all the facts.

Mister win now, worry later. Well they did it. And you just can't accept that they did it their way.

Archie
07-11-2003, 02:09 PM
Don't worry, Truthsayer. Ghost knew it all along.

scott
07-11-2003, 02:10 PM
Dammit Ghost, don't be hijacking perfectly good threads.

Archie
07-11-2003, 02:28 PM
scott, I too appreciate Ghost's dogged effort to search through Coon's Cap FAQ and the actual CBA itself to find an answer to your question in this thread. If it wasn't for Ghost and his excellent cap knowledge I don't know what this board would look like.

Tony Le Parker
07-11-2003, 02:51 PM
Im in no big hurry to sign PJ Brown, because outside of the Spurs getting Brand, we are not gonna repeat next year. We got bent over in FA, accept it. Invest in young players that you can get on the cheap, like Magette and Odom. Don't spend the money just because it's there because that will hamstring them for years to come. If they overpay Kandi-ass or Nestorevic (meaning anything more than 1.5mil), I will seriously reconsider buying any tix next year to watch a WCSF flameout. Make a pitch for Brand, let the dice roll.

Ghost Writer
07-11-2003, 03:17 PM
Hijacking threads?

I started the thread, pal.

The Lakers just added Payton and Brown.

We waited two years to sign a star.

I won't apologize for wanting to explore an opportunity to land Brand rather than rush to sign PJ Brown.

Don't get mad because we don't agree.


:cooldevil

Archie
07-11-2003, 03:22 PM
You've added nothing to that discussion, Ghost. Not once have you bothered to research the cap rules on that. Go back to the nursery the adults are having a talk.

Ghost Writer
07-11-2003, 03:24 PM
Whoopty-do. You guys did the nerd work. Thanks!

I am more in favor of convincing him to accept an outright offer from us anyway.

Please go back to complaining about me for no apparent reason. It's your therapy.


:cooldevil

Archie
07-11-2003, 03:25 PM
:lol

How the F can you discuss this subject otherwise?

Ghost Writer
07-11-2003, 03:27 PM
We already asked about a S&T, creep.

We haven't tried offering Brand a contract outright. It's not the 16th yet.


Settle on PJ Brown. Haven't you made up your mind?


:cooldevil

Archie
07-11-2003, 03:28 PM
:lol

You fucking dumbass.

Ghost Writer
07-11-2003, 06:21 PM
Brand > Olowokandi > PJ Brown


B1tch.


:cooldevil

kohai
07-11-2003, 06:31 PM
Rebounding - wash
FG% - PJ, by a mile
FT% - PJ, by yet another mile
blocks - Kandi, 1.6 to 1.2 career
tougness - Kandi doesn't even appear on the radar.

Ghost Writer
07-12-2003, 01:30 PM
Good.

Kidd and PJ Brown are out of the picture, narrowing the front office's focus.

1. Convince Brand to sign an offer sheet.

2. If that doesn't work, try again for a S&T even if we have to trade Parker.

3. Replace Parker by signing Arenas outright.


If none of that is possible, then:

a) Offer Olowokandi a contract.

b) Extend an offer to Odom and hope Sterling doesn't match.




The thing that disturbs me is that the front office is high on Nesterovic.


I had a premonition that ultimately we;d be looking at stealing away some Clippers.




:cooldevil

Ghost Writer
07-13-2003, 12:45 PM
Utah is going to extend an offer to restricted Brand.

Denver is going to extend an offer to restricted A. Miller.



Where are our b@lls?




Question.



:cooldevil

Admiral
07-13-2003, 12:46 PM
Jason Kidd still has 'em, Ghost. :(

Marcus Bryant
07-13-2003, 12:47 PM
Perhaps the Spurs have? You don't know.

Ghost Writer
07-14-2003, 11:15 AM
I want to read in the paper reports that the Spurs are:

1. Prepared to offer Brand the max and dare Sterling to match

2. Working on a S&T for Brand involving anyone not named Duncan

3. Offering Olowokandi between $6-10 million

4. Prepared to offer Odom between $7-10 million and dare Sterling to match

5. Offering Arenas between $6-10 million

... in that order.


I am sick of reading about Nesterovic.


:cooldevil

scott
07-14-2003, 11:18 AM
I'd adjust your order of preference to read like this:

1
2
4
5
Some other options we haven't thought of
Nesterobitch
5

Ghost Writer
07-14-2003, 11:22 AM
I'd be getting nervous about Olowokandi signing elsewhere by the time we'd get a decision on Odom. If Odom was a PF/C, I'd say wait on him.


:cooldevil

scott
07-14-2003, 11:27 AM
I'm not as averse to Kandi as some other posters- but it appears that Pop/RC aren't even considering him. I don't think he's gonna happen, no matter how bleak things start to look- so might as well forget about him.

Ghost Writer
07-14-2003, 11:29 AM
Um, no.

As Maggette, Miller and Nesterovic look elsewhere and Brand and Odom remain restricted free agents, the Spurs will ahve no choice but to look at 'Kandi.

It concerns me that they've taken this long.





:cooldevil

scott
07-14-2003, 11:30 AM
It shouldn't. What part of "they think he sucks ass" are you failing to understand?

Ghost Writer
07-14-2003, 11:36 AM
:rolleyes


Please post the report that suggests the front office says, "they think he sucks ass", scott.

I've laid out the Spurs options, pal. Read today's Insider for some more insight at the Spurs dwindling options.

Better yet, try coming up with some options for yourself, rathater than just tweaking the ones I laid out for you.

I'll be waiting to comment.

:cooldevil

Marcus Bryant
07-14-2003, 11:42 AM
The front office is active whether or not you want to believe it, Ghost.

MannyIsGod
07-14-2003, 11:48 AM
Ghost HOW ABOUT THE LACK OF REPORTS THAT HE'S EVEN ON THEIR RADAR???

MannyIsGod
07-14-2003, 11:48 AM
Ghost HOW ABOUT THE LACK OF REPORTS THAT HE'S EVEN ON THEIR RADAR???

Like it or not, Nesterostiff is their choice.

And well, most of us don't, but we'll see, I have faith.

Ghost Writer
07-14-2003, 11:49 AM
:rolleyes


Please post the report that suggests the front office says, "they think he sucks ass", scott.

I've laid out the Spurs options, pal. Read today's Insider for some more insight at the Spurs dwindling options.

Better yet, try coming up with some options for yourself, rathater than just tweaking the ones I laid out for you.

I'll be waiting to comment.


:cooldevil


P.S.

Duh. Really, MB? I thought they were just rolling around in loads of cap space and making snow angels out of money.

scott
07-14-2003, 11:51 AM
There are reports that the Spurs don't like Kandi and isn't even considering him. This isn't an opinion-its a fact, so what the **** are you talking about?

But maybe if you put up yet another Get 'Kandi post, the Spurs will change their minds.

Ghost Writer
07-14-2003, 11:55 AM
Please post one (1) report that states that the Spurs don't like 'Kandi and are not considering him. I won't hold you to the "sucks ass" level of condemnation. Just find me one (1) report that states the Spurs have ruled Olowokandi out.

If you're really feeling froggy, come up with some alternatives of your own, scottie.




i'm still waiting.:cooldevil

scott
07-14-2003, 11:58 AM
Try reading some threads other than the ones you have personally started, Ghost.

Ghost Writer
07-14-2003, 12:03 PM
I comment in more threads than you have original thoughts, scott.

You do nothing but p1ss on realistic alternatives and meander in far-fetched ideas.

Please post the article that you base your "the Spurs think 'Kandi sucks ass and are not interested in him" contention on.

Surely you can gather a couple of your own options and post them here. Ones that I haven't already laid out would be super.


:cooldevil

Marcus Bryant
07-14-2003, 12:05 PM
The Spurs are extending a serious offer to Nesterovic and are not seriously pursuing Olowokandi at the moment. That says it all for those who are willing to listen.

MannyIsGod
07-14-2003, 12:07 PM
2+2=5 is a kick ass song.

It's also the way ghost thinks.

If the spurs are pushing at signing Nesterovich, who sucks, very hard, harder than Kandi, the must surely think very highly of Kandi.

Put 2 and 2 together ghost.

And Ludden also spelled it out in one of his articles.

Ghost Writer
07-14-2003, 12:07 PM
All that tells me is that Nesterovic is higher on the priority list than Olowokandi, MB. Nice try playing big brother to scott. Did you read the part about the Spurs pullin gout of negotiations with Nesterovic?

Who does that leave?



I comment in more threads than you have original thoughts, scott.

You do nothing but p1ss on realistic alternatives and meander in far-fetched ideas.

Please post the article that you base your "the Spurs think 'Kandi sucks ass and are not interested in him" contention on.

Surely you can gather a couple of your own options and post them here. Ones that I haven't already laid out would be super.



:cooldevil

scott
07-14-2003, 12:09 PM
Do your own research Ghost.

And don't worry, I won't be spitting back up your great ideas such as "Whitney > Parker" or "Trade our entire team for Stromile Swift" any time soon.

In the meantime, you may want to retitle this thread "Come watch Ghost mistakenly believe his ideas are any good."

Marcus Bryant
07-14-2003, 12:12 PM
Well sure Ghost Olowokandi is on the list...somewhere. That's irrelevant. What's relevant is that they are aggressively pursuing Nesterovic when Olowokandi is available. Now to most sane people that would indicate that the Spurs prefer Rasho to Kandi. But that won't stop you from claiming otherwise.

Ghost Writer
07-14-2003, 12:22 PM
Okay, so you're talking out of your @ss then, scott. I'm glad that's been established. You pooh-poohed on Olowokandi for no reason other than you haven't read the Spurs are interested in him yet and have not been able to offer any other options than the ones I've conveniently summarized for you. How's that DVD coming?


Marcus, it's relevant because we're not going to sign Nesterovic anymore, and all the other free agents are looking elsewhere or can't be had due to their restricted status.


:cooldevil

scott
07-14-2003, 12:27 PM
I haven't "pooh-poohed" on anyone. I already told you I'm not averse to Kandi in combination with another player. The fact is though, that he isn't coming. Its up to you if you are unwilling to accept that- but don't start acting like a puzzled little kitten when people starting speaking the enlightened truth.

What options have you conveniently summarzed anyone? That we should be going after Kandi... hmmm, that is great. Can you summarize any other options the Spurs aren't interested in for me?

And is making a back-handed stab at a project I've decided to not do the best you can come up with?

But like I said earlier, keep making these Get Kandi threads- and maybe Pop and RC will change their minds via the power of pyschokenesis.

Marcus Bryant
07-14-2003, 12:36 PM
Marcus, it's relevant because we're not going to sign Nesterovic anymore, and all the other free agents are looking elsewhere or can't be had due to their restricted status.


Have you been rubbing your crystal balls again?

Ghost Writer
07-14-2003, 12:47 PM
"The fact is though, that he isn't coming." — scott
We're back to Square One with you, scott. Prove this or STFU.

:cooldevil

scott
07-14-2003, 12:52 PM
What if I'd rather not, and watch you continue to make a fool of yourself?

Question.

Ghost Writer
07-14-2003, 12:57 PM
Who's the fool?

You said the Spurs made judgments about Olowokandi that you can't back up.

All you know is what the rest of us have told you — Nesterovic is the first choice.

That doesn't mean if Nesterovis isn't mercifully signed elsewhere than Olowokandi doesn't move up the list.

You made it clear that the front office has no interest in Olowokadi and that they think he "sucks ass."

I just would like to see your source or your won alternatives... "scott".

:cooldevil

scott
07-14-2003, 01:01 PM
You are right Ghost. Kandi is on the top of the list.

Ghost Writer
07-14-2003, 01:06 PM
I never said Olowokandi to SA was a lock. I think it will/should come to that given the options that I've laid out for you and the realistic probabilities.

Interestingly enough, things are shaking out much in the way I feared when we were discussing possibilities for this summer a year into this Holt-ing Pattern. Who knew that it would be so hard to sign star talent? Oh wait. I did.

Just post your source and I'll leave you alone, scott.



What part of "your jumping to conclusions suck ass" don't you understand? :lol










:cooldevil :cooldevil

Marcus Bryant
07-14-2003, 01:22 PM
You knew nothing. You wanted Ron "Mental" Artest for Chrissakes. Had the Spurs gotten him TD might be just settling into his new abode in Central Florida right about now.

Ghost Writer
07-14-2003, 01:29 PM
Or we could be defending our second title in a row, jack@ss.

Artest is All-Star talent. So is Payton.

Is Nesterovic?


:cooldevil

Marcus Bryant
07-14-2003, 01:31 PM
Ha. Artest would have f*ed up this team with his mental instability.

And again you've yet to explain how Payton, TD, Mark Bryant, Jaren Jackson, and Larry Kenon get past the Lakers in the 2002 playoffs.

Ghost Writer
07-14-2003, 01:41 PM
Yeah, Artest was so bad, he drove Jermaine O'Neal out of Indy to join the Spurs. Wait, that didn't happen.

And, yeah, the Spurs front office would never be able to fill out a roster with sheap contracts that inevitably perform well for us should we done the deal for Payton. How do you think we were able to clear out all this cap space, sport?


Oh ywah, the alternative to doing nothing is working out great right now, ain't it?

Starting at center next year for the Spurs is number 03, Cap Space.


:cooldevil

Marcus Bryant
07-14-2003, 01:43 PM
Before I forget that Mercer/Artest trade for SSmith was concocted by Sam Smith of the Chicago Tribune. Not exactly the most reliable source.

Ghost Writer
07-14-2003, 01:46 PM
Don't tell me that the Spurs couldn't have made deals that never even saw newsprint.

Trades get you talent.

Cap space gets you nothing.


But we've been over this.


:cooldevil

Marcus Bryant
07-14-2003, 01:49 PM
You're reaching Ghost. You take trade rumors started by columnists as fact.

Ghost Writer
07-14-2003, 01:53 PM
Big deal?

You act like there weren't offers that could've secured talent for then and now that the Spurs didn't deliberately pass on with the express intent of landing asuperstar this summer.

They should've takne the bird in the hand unless they can pull off a miracle for Brand.




:cooldevil

Marcus Bryant
07-14-2003, 02:00 PM
Oh yeah I forgot they could be paying Derek Anderson $10 mil to do the job Jack did for $600k.

Ghost Writer
07-14-2003, 02:02 PM
Huh?

I suggested they let your superhero Anderson walk, cranberry.


:cooldevil

Marcus Bryant
07-14-2003, 02:04 PM
Well silly me that was a potential deal for talent they had if they had wanted it, unlike your fantasies that are based on rumors that appear in print.

MannyIsGod
07-14-2003, 02:04 PM
The fact remains that the way the Spurs front office has run things has given us a very talented core of players with the ability to add more talent to that this offseason. The offseaon is not over, so it is yet to be seen whether it brings in anything or not ghost.

Either way, the front office has a winning track record.

Give them the benifit of the fucking doubt for once.

Marcus Bryant
07-14-2003, 02:07 PM
No Manny if things don't go perfectly then Ghost has to bitch like a scared little girl.

Ghost Writer
07-14-2003, 02:08 PM
Marcus, at least the deals that I insist on appear somewhere other than your fanatical medulla oblongata.

Trades = Exchange of Talent

Cap Space = Ability to Sign Talent


What's the safer thing to do?



Question.



:cooldevil

MannyIsGod
07-14-2003, 02:08 PM
you know , the caproom is fucking GRAVY.

The spurs put together a championship team, **** this holting pattern bullshit, they WON.

The ability to add talent now is gravy.

Marcus Bryant
07-14-2003, 02:08 PM
Your "trades" = fantasies.

MannyIsGod
07-14-2003, 02:10 PM
Name the last trade with a FA that brought a team a championship?

Kobe for Divac is the only one I can think of.

Ghost Writer
07-14-2003, 02:11 PM
:rollin


You're one to talk about fantasies, Marcus.

Excuse me for commenting on rumored deals in national publications.


Do you think the Spurs were ever offered any deals during the past two years?


Question.



:cooldevil

MannyIsGod
07-14-2003, 02:13 PM
And i'm glad they do any of those deals ghost, or else we might not be haning a banner in the SBC center this fall.

OR DO YOU NOT REALIZE THAT?

Marcus Bryant
07-14-2003, 02:14 PM
I don't bitch about fantasies 24/7 for two damn years like you've done, 'tard.

Peter Vescey is a columnist in a nationally recognized paper. Enough said.

Ghost Writer
07-14-2003, 02:19 PM
:lol

No, you just create make-believe trade scenarios for crap players while simultaneously pawning yourself off as a proponent of the doomed Holt-ing Pattern.



Get a game, goof.



p.S.

Would you like Artest or Payton on the Spurs today or are you cool with what we've got? Don't bother answering. You probably think we're the 'bestest'.




:cooldevil

MannyIsGod
07-14-2003, 02:23 PM
double

MannyIsGod
07-14-2003, 02:23 PM
**** yeah we're better off with what we have!!!!!

Are you serious?

Ghost Writer
07-14-2003, 02:25 PM
:rollin

Thank you, Manny.

It's comforting to know we'll still have cockeyed optimist homers like you to pull us through bitter disappointments that could've been avoided like this summer.

Salu'te.


:cooldevil

scott
07-14-2003, 02:27 PM
What we had last season = Championship.

I'm happy with all the moves we've made up to this point.

What do you play for, Ghost?

MannyIsGod
07-14-2003, 02:29 PM
cockeyed homers?

How is payton in anyway better than parker at the moment?

Artest is a great talent, but so was Isiah Rider. Jax and Manu have the ability to be jsut as good if not better, and do not have the associated problems.

We also have Malik on this team which you wanted to ship off for Payton.

Get fucking real ghost, not only are your trade scenarios usually far from reality, they are also not favorable to the Spurs.

ducks
07-14-2003, 03:23 PM
the clippers may have to talk another player besided tp. because they have to have a certain payroll. they may want rose or bowen with tp or not even tp at all

Nikos
07-14-2003, 03:50 PM
If I were the Clippers I would not go after Tony Parker. I just don't see their need for him right now.