Jalen Smith - 2020 NBA Draft Prospect

[Dejounte]

More knowledgeable lmao. That's all you can go back to. Go walk off again with your tail between your legs. If they draft Vassell/Bey, I'll support them like any other prospect. The difference is, you're still going to be stuck in your miserable loop.

[BackHome]

If we drafting 11 I want Smith he has some dog in him and I like his attitude plus I think he would fit in well with the other young kids we got.

[Cabrito]

He is a free agent next year as the Suns declined his third year option. It sometimes takes big men time to develop. He seems like a career backup but he is still young.

[exstatic]

He’d be just another Trey Lyles, another guy with talent, but no drive.

[Mr. Body]

Fascinating to scan old threads like these. Not calling anyone out, but the way folks fall in love with dubious prospects just shows what a tossup this stuff is. Killian Hayes is mentioned, who has few actual skills for his position and a terrible shooting percentage. Pokusevski was a guy many were infatuated with, but already his minutes have dipped incredibly and he's still one of the worst shooters I've ever seen.

I actually believe more in Jalen Smith now than I did during the draft. I think he has some decent skills to build on. Depends on if he falls to a team who will invest in him, but I still see a future there. Phoenix is just incredibly cheap.

[mo7888]

It lowers his value in any potential trade. I'd still take him and Saric for Thad and Drew if they give us a good 1st with it.

[CGD]

It lowers his value in any potential trade. I'd still take him and Saric for Thad and Drew if they give us a good 1st with it.

Yup, all about the pick tho.

[DPG21920]

Thank goodness sa didn’t trade for him and injured Saric lol. If they give a first? Sure.

[Seventyniner]

Trading for Jalen Smith is zero risk because he's off the books next summer anyway, but I can't view him as anything more than a very marginally positive asset at this point; maybe the Spurs could make a useful player out of him but that shouldn't be viewed as the base case.

Saric's dead money next year means the Suns would have to attach at least a good first for the Spurs to consider sending them a player with positive value like Young, along with having to clear yet another roster spot.

[slick'81]

Lol alot peeps wanted that shitty suns deal:lol

[The Truth #6]

The fact that he isn't playing for the Suns doesn't particularly mean much to me. Of course it could mean that he sucks, OR it could also mean that he is young and they are in win now mode and don't want to squander any of CP3's last moments on developing a young player.

He played great in Summer League. In his brief opportunity in preseason had another solid game. Local sportswriters assumed he would be in the rotation based on this improvement, or at least given a chance.

So to me it's more of an unknown then any proven problem with him as a player.

If someone sees something that suggests otherwise, that would be good to know.

[exstatic]

The fact that he isn't playing for the Suns doesn't particularly mean much to me. Of course it could mean that he sucks, OR it could also mean that he is young and they are in win now mode and don't want to squander any of CP3's last moments on developing a young player.

He played great in Summer League. In his brief opportunity in preseason had another solid game. Local sportswriters assumed he would be in the rotation based on this improvement, or at least given a chance.

So to me it's more of an unknown then any proven problem with him as a player.

If someone sees something that suggests otherwise, that would be good to know.

Top ten pick not in the rotation. Inexpensive option not picked up. Do the math.

[The Truth #6]

I know you want to lecture others, but you don’t really have an answer. It’s a reasonable speculation but then they let Ayton hang as well. To me it speaks more to unknown, weird issues in general.

[exstatic]

I know you want to lecture others, but you don’t really have an answer. It’s a reasonable speculation but then they let Ayton hang as well. To me it speaks more to unknown, weird issues in general.

I just use Occam’s razor a lot.

All other things being equal, the simplest, least variable explanation is usually right.

People, especially in todays Disinformation Society, have a way of over complicating things, instead of just seeing what’s right in front of them. You can come up with any number of theories, but I just see him not playing, and the team that drafted him #10 overall a little over a year ago refused to pick up an option that was about HALF of the mid level, and it’s just not really a reach to say he sucks. I don’t care what he did in SL. No one there cares about anything but scoring, certainly not defense. PHO also didn’t hang Ayton out to dry. They couldn’t reach a common salary number, but he’s still restricted next summer, and they can match.

[Thomas82]

I still wouldn't mind having him.

[slick'81]

We have enough bigs. Why are we obsessing about this one?!

[rankingtear]

He got bounced around by summer league guards, does not have the strength to have a position on the court. He has those narrow hips, NBA teams usually can fix mechanical issues in the first year.

[The Truth #6]

I just use Occam’s razor a lot.

All other things being equal, the simplest, least variable explanation is usually right.

People, especially in todays Disinformation Society, have a way of over complicating things, instead of just seeing what’s right in front of them. You can come up with any number of theories, but I just see him not playing, and the team that drafted him #10 overall a little over a year ago refused to pick up an option that was about HALF of the mid level, and it’s just not really a reach to say he sucks. I don’t care what he did in SL. No one there cares about anything but scoring, certainly not defense. PHO also didn’t hang Ayton out to dry. They couldn’t reach a common salary number, but he’s still restricted next summer, and they can match.

Occam's Razor. Sure that makes sense in general. But people make decisions based on emotions just as much if not more than on logic, so I'm not going to presume to have an answer given everything I outlined. Occam's Razor can quickly become Confirmation Bias.

But whatever, he's not coming here anyway. On to the next topic...

[Chinook]

I'm not going to lie -- I loved the idea of him and was disappointed he wasn't around for the Spurs' pick. I think he would be a decent flier if he signed a short-term deal that gave the team RFA rights. He was somewhat too expensive to have real trade value though. Considering that any Young trade within the next 40ish days would have to include Eubanks if the team is going to take back more than one player, there's a spot for Smith on the team. But he's also somewhat dead money, and combined with Saric, I'd want a first in a Young-to-Phoenix deal. I don't think seconds are enough unless Collins goes in the deal instead of Drew.

[SAGirl]

Bump because there’s so much interest on him. A refresher. Some guys have done a full 180 on him recently.

[SAGirl]

One question do you think him and Luka could play together full time and who would you see playing Center and Power Forward?
Things like this ^ are the reason one doesn’t worry about fit with current roster when scouting in the draft. I am not calling you out in this specifically, that’s not my intention. A lot guys do it, but fit is not even a consideration when fishing for the best upside possible in the draft. Samanic hadn’t shown much at that point but some athleticism and theoretical skills.

The point is really that many of the guys in the current roster, even young guys are probably not going to be around when the Spurs are competitive again, so it’s better to leave fit as a consideration for free agency, but not for the draft.

I am not advocating it, but Spurs may yet draft another wing because Walker is not what they hoped and Primo doesn’t look like a sure thing, and even if he were, it’d be like passing up the opportunity to draft Jimmy Buckets and Kawhi the same year bc you wanted CoJo.

[exstatic]

Bump because there’s so much interest on him. A refresher. Some guys have done a full 180 on him recently.
Yes. New information, that he actually can produce with minutes, SHOULD yield a new viewpoint, but that happened for me in January (not so recently) after his December run of playing time when Ayton was out on protocols.

[SAGirl]

I have no problem with that, but you were sooooo sure b4 tbh. Soooo sure, when the truth is none of us know for sure and a bunch of it is speculation.

[exstatic]

I have no problem with that, but you were sooooo sure b4 tbh. Soooo sure.

What are you..like 12?

[T Park]

I have no problem with that, but you were sooooo sure b4 tbh. Soooo sure, when the truth is none of us know for sure and a bunch of it is speculation.


Like you with Primo?

[SAGirl]

Like you with Primo?
Kind of out of topic tbh.


——————————————————
edit: Ok it was late last night, but I wasn’t looking to troll excstatic, though he jumped out of the gate like I was.

I remembered this guy was discussed in the past vaguely. I wasn’t exactly sure what was discussed about him so I had to look it up.

My opinion on Primo is based on current observation and leaves open the possibility he will be much better next season bc he’s very young and improving and his shot was also altered and was thus missing.

Ex seemed to have a really bad opinion on this guy based on spotty minutes he played for the Suns at the time and the fact that the Suns gave up on him too early. The context is that the Suns are in win now mode and have no development time to find this guy, with current better players ahead of him. One could say he wasn’t even given much of an opportunity. The Phoenix roster is getting very expensive and they also can’t afford him. I think the context there is different from Primo, though your point is well made that both guys were projects at the time. Ex just seemed damning on guy in a bad situation and more willing to give a chance to a different project because he’s on the Spurs in a good situation. At least be honest about it.

If I remember correctly, the Suns were trying to trade Smith for Thad Young and the Spurs were interested. That was before the Suns ended up declining his option this past summer. I think the Spurs declined that trade bc the Suns wanted to attach Saric, but if the Spurs really wanted him in a cost controlled contract that was possible at the time. The Spurs probably also wanted more for Thad Young.
In looking back, I am trying to read the tea leaves of how genuine the Spurs interest was in this guy at the time.

[XDT76]

Things like this ^ are the reason one doesn’t worry about fit with current roster when scouting in the draft. I am not calling you out in this specifically, that’s not my intention. A lot guys do it, but fit is not even a consideration when fishing for the best upside possible in the draft. Samanic hadn’t shown much at that point but some athleticism and theoretical skills.

The point is really that many of the guys in the current roster, even young guys are probably not going to be around when the Spurs are competitive again, so it’s better to leave fit as a consideration for free agency, but not for the draft.

I am not advocating it, but Spurs may yet draft another wing because Walker is not what they hoped and Primo doesn’t look like a sure thing, and even if he were, it’d be like passing up the opportunity to draft Jimmy Buckets and Kawhi the same year bc you wanted CoJo.

This is a flaw thinking you cannot keep drafting players year after year at the same position. It makes your team totally imbalance and when everyone knows your need for a position they will hold you to ransom. Also as you keep drafting the so call BPA at the same position you deny them playing time and thus restrict their potential by the time their rookie contract is coming to and end.

[KingKev]

We’ve had alot of dead cap the last 4-5 years. Given how thin this free agency is and hopefully no return of Walker taking a chance in Smith makes a ton of sense. Few teams will be able to pay him for than the MLE and Indiana has limited to no ability to sign and trade him.

[The Truth #6]

Good bump on this thread to see how things change. I didn't love him out of the draft, but I liked him when the Suns were giving up on him. If we could get him in the off-season for a good deal makes sense.

[Seventyniner]

Kind of out of topic tbh.


——————————————————
edit: Ok it was late last night, but I wasn’t looking to troll excstatic, though he jumped out of the gate like I was.

I remembered this guy was discussed in the past vaguely. I wasn’t exactly sure what was discussed about him so I had to look it up.

My opinion on Primo is based on current observation and leaves open the possibility he will be much better next season bc he’s very young and improving and his shot was also altered and was thus missing.

Ex seemed to have a really bad opinion on this guy based on spotty minutes he played for the Suns at the time and the fact that the Suns gave up on him too early. The context is that the Suns are in win now mode and have no development time to find this guy, with current better players ahead of him. One could say he wasn’t even given much of an opportunity. The Phoenix roster is getting very expensive and they also can’t afford him. I think the context there is different from Primo, though your point is well made that both guys were projects at the time. Ex just seemed damning on guy in a bad situation and more willing to give a chance to a different project because he’s on the Spurs in a good situation. At least be honest about it.

If I remember correctly, the Suns were trying to trade Smith for Thad Young and the Spurs were interested. That was before the Suns ended up declining his option this past summer. I think the Spurs declined that trade bc the Suns wanted to attach Saric, but if the Spurs really wanted him in a cost controlled contract that was possible at the time. The Spurs probably also wanted more for Thad Young.
In looking back, I am trying to read the tea leaves of how genuine the Spurs interest was in this guy at the time.

Ex has been saying all along that whichever team had Jalen Smith on their roster at the end of this season could not sign him to a contract starting at more than $4.7M. He will almost certainly command more than that in the market, so if the Spurs actually have interest in signing him the best thing they could have done at the trade deadline was not trade for him.

Now the Pacers are in the same spot: they can't pay him more than $4.7M so he will almost certainly walk. They got Phoenix's second out of the deal, but unsurprisingly it's the 60th pick. I don't understand why they did that trade.

[exstatic]

Ex has been saying all along that whichever team had Jalen Smith on their roster at the end of this season could not sign him to a contract starting at more than $4.7M. He will almost certainly command more than that in the market, so if the Spurs actually have interest in signing him the best thing they could have done at the trade deadline was not trade for him.

Now the Pacers are in the same spot: they can't pay him more than $4.7M so he will almost certainly walk. They got Phoenix's second out of the deal, but unsurprisingly it's the 60th pick. I don't understand why they did that trade.

Kevin Pritchard is the GM/POBO for Indy, so they didn’t miss any information on the situation. The obvious slant is that they didn’t have interest in him this summer, having Turner and Isaiah Jackson, so they accepted him as salary ballast to obtain a SRP. They played him way too much to try to fly under the radar and re-sign him cheaply.

[Seventyniner]

Kevin Pritchard is the GM/POBO for Indy, so they didn’t miss any information on the situation. The obvious slant is that they didn’t have interest in him this summer, having Turner and Isaiah Jackson, so they accepted him as salary ballast to obtain a SRP. They played him way too much to try to fly under the radar and re-sign him cheaply.

You're right, it does make sense that the Pacers never wanted to sign him this summer anyway. And the #60 pick isn't much but it's better than nothing.

If the Spurs do want Jalen Smith, Indiana having taken themselves out of the running is good. That leaves only four teams with more than the MLE, right? Spurs/Thunder/Magic/Blazers are the ones I'm aware of.

[R. DeMurre]

This is a flaw thinking you cannot keep drafting players year after year at the same position. It makes your team totally imbalance and when everyone knows your need for a position they will hold you to ransom. Also as you keep drafting the so call BPA at the same position you deny them playing time and thus restrict their potential by the time their rookie contract is coming to and end.


That line of thinking also has its flaws... One of the reasons the Trailblazers decided not to draft Jordan was because they already had Clyde Drexler. That's a monumental mistake.

[KingKev]

You're right, it does make sense that the Pacers never wanted to sign him this summer anyway. And the #60 pick isn't much but it's better than nothing.

If the Spurs do want Jalen Smith, Indiana having taken themselves out of the running is good. That leaves only four teams with more than the MLE, right? Spurs/Thunder/Magic/Blazers are the ones I'm aware of.

Detroit, potentially Memphis and Cleveland (doubt they'd be a suitor)

Most so called “NBA analysts” are too stupid or lazy (usually both) to actually really dig deep and make an accurate forecast of teams projected cap… and by digging deep I mean applying common sense to a few google searches.

[exstatic]

That line of thinking also has its flaws... One of the reasons the Trailblazers decided not to draft Jordan was because they already had Clyde Drexler. That's a monumental mistake.

Imagine if Houston passed on Olajuwon because they already had Ralph Sampson. Or, if the Spurs passed on Tim, because we already had David.

[scott]

Okay, hypothetical time because what else is there to do while the first round of the playoffs rages on without us?

I'm glad we have a pretty good gaggle of Smith followers here, because it takes some unknown (for fans) out of what appears to be a viable off-season target for us.

There appears to be some deal of debate around whether Jalen Smith is a 4/5 or strictly a 5. For the purposes of this question, that debate doesn't need resolution now... but let's combine the discussion of Jalen with the seemingly prevailing thought that we should sell Jak while his value is high.

How would you feel a combination of Smith/Zac/Jock/Draft pick in the C rotation going into next season? If we did trade Jak, hypothetically for some future FRP considerations as to not cloud the 2022 Draft discussion, and sign Smith... do you feel alright about the C position? Does it push your consideration of Duren or Williams up? Do you look to a Serge Ibaka-type short term addition to the lineup?

Let's say you trade Jak, sign Smith and either draft Duren or sign Ibaka or Drummond. You'll likely add someone who can play PF in the draft as well at some point, but will be groomed the "Spurs way". Does a PF rotation of Smith and Zac, while also filling in minutes at C shore up some of our rotation issues? Allow Keldon to play the proper position?

Just spit ballin' here.

[PhantomDashCam]

Have a few hours free this w/e (public holiday Monday in Australia), and I’m going through some league pass Indiana games from March to April focusing on Mr. Smith. This was from about the 7-8th game from when he arrived on the team. Thought this would give a reasonable baseline for performance taking into account familiarity with personnel and some team concepts/philosophies.

- I’m using NBA.com’s Full Play by Play purely to locate when Jalen Smith checks into the game and then watching all the content until he checks out. Rinse and repeat.

- If anybody has a particular game they would like me to check out, let me know. (Even from his tenure in Phoenix, Summer League etc. Just let me know the date).

Initial observations:

- Jalen is playing some 4/5 on Offense but is strictly playing the 5 on Defense. Even in a wacky lineup for short stretches that contained Brishett, Isaiah Jackson and Smith in the Frontcourt, he was strictly playing the 5.

- He gets pushed off his spots quite easily when anywhere near the paint. He can be nudged under the basket for rebounds.
This appears to have been a problem for sometime as while his upper body is developed, his core/legs are not. It’s why he got the nickname ‘Sticks’ I believe…

- He really does have a sweet stroke that belies his numbers. He’s also improved at putting the ball on the deck to attack close outs and get to the rim from the previous film I’ve seen.

[XDT76]

That line of thinking also has its flaws... One of the reasons the Trailblazers decided not to draft Jordan was because they already had Clyde Drexler. That's a monumental mistake.

If we are drafting at the top end of the lottery sure, however we are not. Now we are playing SG/Combo guards up to 4 positions, we are lucky that DjM has grown leaps and bound but we cannot afford to keep doing this unless we are going to get rid of a couple of them, there will be people not getting playing time and we suffer at positions when they are asked to play out of their natural position.

[mo7888]

Have a few hours free this w/e (public holiday Monday in Australia), and I’m going through some league pass Indiana games from March to April focusing on Mr. Smith. This was from about the 7-8th game from when he arrived on the team. Thought this would give a reasonable baseline for performance taking into account familiarity with personnel and some team concepts/philosophies.

- I’m using NBA.com’s Full Play by Play purely to locate when Jalen Smith checks into the game and then watching all the content until he checks out. Rinse and repeat.

- If anybody has a particular game they would like me to check out, let me know. (Even from his tenure in Phoenix, Summer League etc. Just let me know the date).

Initial observations:

- Jalen is playing some 4/5 on Offense but is strictly playing the 5 on Defense. Even in a wacky lineup for short stretches that contained Brishett, Isaiah Jackson and Smith in the Frontcourt, he was strictly playing the 5.

- He gets pushed off his spots quite easily when anywhere near the paint. He can be nudged under the basket for rebounds.
This appears to have been a problem for sometime as while his upper body is developed, his core/legs are not. It’s why he got the nickname ‘Sticks’ I believe…

- He really does have a sweet stroke that belies his numbers. He’s also improved at putting the ball on the deck to attack close outs and get to the rim from the previous film I’ve seen.

It's the fact that he plays the 5 so much that makes me skeptical that he can be a starting 4 in the league. A part-time 4/5 coming off the bench would be nice but, I wouldn't want to be the team offering him a full MLE. If you can get him less than that I can see the value though..

[KingKev]

He looks like he can easily play the 4 on O from what I saw this year.

[SAGirl]

Ex has been saying all along that whichever team had Jalen Smith on their roster at the end of this season could not sign him to a contract starting at more than $4.7M. He will almost certainly command more than that in the market, so if the Spurs actually have interest in signing him the best thing they could have done at the trade deadline was not trade for him.

Now the Pacers are in the same spot: they can't pay him more than $4.7M so he will almost certainly walk. They got Phoenix's second out of the deal, but unsurprisingly it's the 60th pick. I don't understand why they did that trade.
I think he was in the market during the summer b4 the Suns decided not to pick up his option?

Some of my trying to look up the Spurs interest goes back to that period. Why not trade for him then? I think it was bc Suns wanted to attach Saric. Once Suns declined his option, there were rumors Spurs were interested still but I think at that point they were looking for. Bryn Forbes trade. With how active the Spurs were this year with trades it wouldn’t surprise me he was discussed in different scenarios, but yeah, once Phoenix declined his options, it definitely changed his value. They also stopped insisting on attaching Saric after.

[exstatic]

I think he was in the market during the summer b4 the Suns decided not to pick up his option?

Some of my trying to look up the Spurs interest goes back to that period. Why not trade for him then? I think it was bc Suns wanted to attach Saric. Once Suns declined his option, there were rumors Spurs were interested still but I think at that point they were looking for. Bryn Forbes trade. With how active the Spurs were this year with trades it wouldn’t surprise me he was discussed in different scenarios, but yeah, once Phoenix declined his options, it definitely changed his value. They also stopped insisting on attaching Saric after.

It wasn’t Jalen that made the trade unpalatable. To trade for Thad, they needed to balance the contracts by throwing in Saric, who was out all of last season with a torn ACL, and has next year still on his contract. Based on our transactions the last year, we asked for a FRP, and they said no, so we said no. At the time, Jalen had little to no value, so they needed to send draft assets to pay for eating Saric’s contract.

The irony is, they are deep in tax jail, so they may end up dealing with us anyway, Saric is now healed, and if we sign Smith, we end up with what we wanted from them, and they paid Saric’s salary while he was injured, and didn’t get Thad. We could get a a FRP for taking Saric into caproom, and then do an OKC, and flip him to a contender at the deadline for another asset.

[Thomas82]

This is a flaw thinking you cannot keep drafting players year after year at the same position. It makes your team totally imbalance and when everyone knows your need for a position they will hold you to ransom. Also as you keep drafting the so call BPA at the same position you deny them playing time and thus restrict their potential by the time their rookie contract is coming to and end.

This is why I have been so frustrated to see us drafting guards every year.

[BackHome]

This is what happens when you draft in the teens vs drafting players in the top 6

[JPB]

That line of thinking also has its flaws... One of the reasons the Trailblazers decided not to draft Jordan was because they already had Clyde Drexler. That's a monumental mistake.

Sam Perkins tho.

[R. DeMurre]

If we are drafting at the top end of the lottery sure, however we are not. Now we are playing SG/Combo guards up to 4 positions, we are lucky that DjM has grown leaps and bound but we cannot afford to keep doing this unless we are going to get rid of a couple of them, there will be people not getting playing time and we suffer at positions when they are asked to play out of their natural position.


Don't give up hope yet! In 23 days we'll see if the 4.5% chance for #1 or 20.3% chance for top 4 pans out. But yeah, generally speaking I agree. Someone 6'8" or over would be nice.

[SAGirl]

Have a few hours free this w/e (public holiday Monday in Australia), and I’m going through some league pass Indiana games from March to April focusing on Mr. Smith. This was from about the 7-8th game from when he arrived on the team. Thought this would give a reasonable baseline for performance taking into account familiarity with personnel and some team concepts/philosophies.

- I’m using NBA.com’s Full Play by Play purely to locate when Jalen Smith checks into the game and then watching all the content until he checks out. Rinse and repeat.

- If anybody has a particular game they would like me to check out, let me know. (Even from his tenure in Phoenix, Summer League etc. Just let me know the date).

Initial observations:

- Jalen is playing some 4/5 on Offense but is strictly playing the 5 on Defense. Even in a wacky lineup for short stretches that contained Brishett, Isaiah Jackson and Smith in the Frontcourt, he was strictly playing the 5.

- He gets pushed off his spots quite easily when anywhere near the paint. He can be nudged under the basket for rebounds.
This appears to have been a problem for sometime as while his upper body is developed, his core/legs are not. It’s why he got the nickname ‘Sticks’ I believe…

- He really does have a sweet stroke that belies his numbers. He’s also improved at putting the ball on the deck to attack close outs and get to the rim from the previous film I’ve seen.
Thanks for the scouting report. Much appreciated.

[PhantomDashCam]

Just wanted to revisit this quickly. I’m absolutely convinced that Jalen Smith is a 5 in today’s NBA.

Here’s a nice example of perimeter Defense:
- Switches onto Okeke, stays in front and uses length to deter at the rim
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=505&GameID=0022100933&Season=2021-22&flag=1&title=MISS%20Okeke%204%27%20Driving%20Layup&sct=plot

Here are some that should have people concerned about long term prospect as a 4
- Loses Ross for an open 3
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=522&GameID=0022100933&Season=2021-22&flag=1&title=Ross%203PT%20Jump%20Shot%20(3%20PTS)%20(Okek e%203%20AST)&sct=plot

- Ross simple step back to get separation for 3
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=545&GameID=0022100933&Season=2021-22&flag=1&title=Ross%2027%27%203PT%20Step%20Back%20Jump%20Sh ot%20(6%20PTS)&sct=plot

Some examples of the Core strength/rebounding issues, unable to hold his ground

- Gets muscled by Fultz and gives up the Defensive board
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=496&GameID=0022100933&Season=2021-22&flag=1&title=Fultz%20REBOUND%20(Off:0%20Def:2)&sct=plot

- Doesn’t box out Bamba who gets the easy put back
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=619&GameID=0022100933&Season=2021-22&flag=1&title=Bamba%20Tip%20Layup%20Shot%20(17%20PTS)&sct=plot

[exstatic]

Just wanted to revisit this quickly. I’m absolutely convinced that Jalen Smith is a 5 in today’s NBA.

Here’s a nice example of perimeter Defense:
- Switches onto Okeke, stays in front and uses length to deter at the rim
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=505&GameID=0022100933&Season=2021-22&flag=1&title=MISS%20Okeke%204%27%20Driving%20Layup&sct=plot

Here are some that should have people concerned about long term prospect as a 4
- Loses Ross for an open 3
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=522&GameID=0022100933&Season=2021-22&flag=1&title=Ross%203PT%20Jump%20Shot%20(3%20PTS)%20(Okek e%203%20AST)&sct=plot

- Ross simple step back to get separation for 3
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=545&GameID=0022100933&Season=2021-22&flag=1&title=Ross%2027%27%203PT%20Step%20Back%20Jump%20Sh ot%20(6%20PTS)&sct=plot

Some examples of the Core strength/rebounding issues, unable to hold his ground

- Gets muscled by Fultz and gives up the Defensive board
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=496&GameID=0022100933&Season=2021-22&flag=1&title=Fultz%20REBOUND%20(Off:0%20Def:2)&sct=plot

- Doesn’t box out Bamba who gets the easy put back
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=619&GameID=0022100933&Season=2021-22&flag=1&title=Bamba%20Tip%20Layup%20Shot%20(17%20PTS)&sct=plot

Nice cherry pick videos. Now, ask yourself if either Keldon or McD could have made those defensive plays.

[PhantomDashCam]

I just use Occam’s razor a lot.

All other things being equal, the simplest, least variable explanation is usually right.

People, especially in todays Disinformation Society, have a way of over complicating things, instead of just seeing what’s right in front of them. You can come up with any number of theories, but I just see him not playing, and the team that drafted him #10 overall a little over a year ago refused to pick up an option that was about HALF of the mid level, and it’s just not really a reach to say he sucks. I don’t care what he did in SL. No one there cares about anything but scoring, certainly not defense. PHO also didn’t hang Ayton out to dry. They couldn’t reach a common salary number, but he’s still restricted next summer, and they can match.


Nice cherry pick videos. Now, ask yourself if either Keldon or McD could have made those defensive plays.

My argument was that he's not a 4, especially on Defense, (and let's be honest, that's the bread and butter of all lineup discussions). I provided some clips to show why that would be problematic.
Happy for you to provide videos, evidence to the contrary.

Bringing in Keldon or McD to the discussion, (widely acknowledged defensive liabilities, who also just happen to be Spurs), to prop up an argument that we should sign Smith as a 4, (currently unable to play that position effectively, also not a Spur), just because he can be as inept defensively on the perimeter seems somewhat counter productive to me.

[exstatic]

My argument was that he's not a 4, especially on Defense, (and let's be honest, that's the bread and butter of all lineup discussions). I provided some clips to show why that would be problematic.
Happy for you to provide videos, evidence to the contrary.

Bringing in Keldon or McD to the discussion, (widely acknowledged defensive liabilities, who also just happen to be Spurs), to prop up an argument that we should sign Smith as a 4, (currently unable to play that position effectively, also not a Spur), just because he can be as inept defensively on the perimeter seems somewhat counter productive to me.

Keldon and McD aren’t irrelevant to the discussion. They were the occupants of the 4 spot this year. Any new 4 needs to use them as a yardstick.

You used 4 short snippets to determine that he can only defend the interior, can’t defend on the perimeter, gets worked on the boards by guards. That’s the definition of cherry-picking.

[PhantomDashCam]

Keldon and McD aren’t irrelevant to the discussion. They were the occupants of the 4 spot this year. Any new 4 needs to use them as a yardstick.

You used 4 short snippets to determine that he can only defend the interior, can’t defend on the perimeter, gets worked on the boards by guards. That’s the definition of cherry-picking.

The burden of proof lies with you.
I've provided you with evidence, admittedly a small sample size or 'Cherry-Picked' as you pointed out to why he's not a PF, meaning it should be easy for you to find four or more clips that refute my claim, or, at the very least, add talking points to the discussion. Happy hunting. :tu

[XDT76]

The burden of proof lies with you.
I've provided you with evidence, admittedly a small sample size or 'Cherry-Picked' as you pointed out to why he's not a PF, meaning it should be easy for you to find four or more clips that refute my claim, or, at the very least, add talking points to the discussion. Happy hunting. :tu

https://youtu.be/uQ7qnBd7My4

[XDT76]

The burden of proof lies with you.
I've provided you with evidence, admittedly a small sample size or 'Cherry-Picked' as you pointed out to why he's not a PF, meaning it should be easy for you to find four or more clips that refute my claim, or, at the very least, add talking points to the discussion. Happy hunting. :tu

Not really difficult to find clips showing against what you show. He defended against step back, penetration and some bigs. If we only wanna show very limited evidence for a point we can find evidence easily. It's only when a large sample size being shown then a conclusion can be drawn.

[PhantomDashCam]

https://youtu.be/uQ7qnBd7My4

:lol You showed a highlight package of him mostly playing as a 5 and the occasional possession where he was 4.

I don’t think Smith is a bad defender overall btw. The discussion was is he a 4. I’m convinced he’s not. Your heavily edited clip strengthens my case.

[RC_Drunkford]

Spurs should definitely go after him. Although he's not really starter caliber, our only real PF is KBD and Smith is definitely the better player

[XDT76]

:lol You showed a highlight package of him mostly playing as a 5 and the occasional possession where he was 4.

I don’t think Smith is a bad defender overall btw. The discussion was is he a 4. I’m convinced he’s not. Your heavily edited clip strengthens my case.

I am not advocating him to be a 4 or 5, you might even be right that he is more suited to be a 5. However I am saying that your clips are limited and might not exactly paint a picture of what he can or cannot do. The clips might have him playing 5 but it also has parts where he play with McGee or you saying McGee is playing 4. He also play decent defend on Tatum and Bridges 2 very good 4. The Spurs even play Landale as 4 with Poeltl and Collins to some good effects. Of course J Smith would not be our dream 4 or long term 4 but personally I would prefer him as our 4 than KJ/McD. It's not as if KJ/McD is very good at defending the 4, at least J Smith would give additional length for rebound and help/interior defense.

[objective]

Listened to some pacers podcasts and none of them seemed too heartbroken at losing him, don't think any considered him starting material

[exstatic]

Listened to some pacers podcasts and none of them seemed too heartbroken at losing him, don't think any considered him starting material

They almost can’t keep him, with that contract. Why be excited in that case? If the Spurs had traded for him, I’d have written him off, too.

[PhantomDashCam]

exstatic, I owe you an apology mate.

Pacers held a Press Conference to announce the Smith signing (below) and at 6:35 mark a reporter basically states that Carlisle named him as the starting PF heading into the season.

So apologies, Eating Crow as I type this...


https://youtu.be/1entOvD97qs

[KingKev]

Still very surprised he didn’t get more money.

[XDT76]

Still very surprised he didn’t get more money.

Probably think that as a starting PF, he would eventually earn more in the long run as oppose to get a couple M more and get buried on the bench.

[exstatic]

exstatic, I owe you an apology mate.

Pacers held a Press Conference to announce the Smith signing (below) and at 6:35 mark a reporter basically states that Carlisle named him as the starting PF heading into the season.

So apologies, Eating Crow as I type this...


https://youtu.be/1entOvD97qs

No worries. It was a fluid situation until we drafted a PF in the draft. As XDT said, he probably wasn’t too jazzed to accept a bench role at 22.

[Atl Spur]

Pop don’t guarantee spots very often…… good for him though:)