How did we miss on Nikola Jokic at 30th in 2014?

[kht]

How did we miss on Nikola Jokic at 30th in 2014? I thought we had the edge in international scouting, a 3-tool player who can pass, shoot, and rebound.

I personally had him up off my mock board at 18th to the Phoenix Suns.

We could have ran it back in 2015 with him and Manu running the second unit.

[Play Boban]

Pop would’ve ruined him

[Chinook]

Jokic is basically Ryan Richards had Richards gotten way better instead of being content to waste his talent. Nikola didn't seem to care in Europe, but they Nuggets managed to talk sense into him during that stash season.

[timvp]

The scouting report on Jokic was that he was fat, addicted to soda, didn't really like basketball and said his goal was to work on his family's farm. Proof that it's best to sometimes ignore scouting reports, tbh.

[rankingtear]

Draft is a crapshoot.

[TheDoctor]

https://i.imgur.com/H96grEL.jpg
The scouting report on Jokic was that he was fat, addicted to soda, didn't really like basketball and said his goal was to work on his family's farm. Proof that it's best to sometimes ignore scouting reports, tbh.

[John B]

Denver has mini-beautiful game going on with Jokic/Murray reading and passing to better shot. They realistically have a shot against LeBron tbh

[ZeusWillJudge]

The scouting report on Jokic was that he was fat, addicted to soda, didn't really like basketball and said his goal was to work on his family's farm. Proof that it's best to sometimes ignore scouting reports, tbh.


Heh. I remember thinking that the Spurs were going to run him into the ground in the playoffs, and he would fade at the end of games. Bastard never slowed down.

[John B]

Jokic has a lot of old man game, very smart player. To big men who think small ball, this is the ticket. He is how you play big man game. To be honest, I see a lot of Timmy in him reading the plays. It’s so beautiful to look at.

[exstatic]

Misleading title. Should be ‘How did 30 teams miss on Jokic in 2014?’

[Dejounte]

The scouting report on Jokic was that he was fat, addicted to soda, didn't really like basketball and said his goal was to work on his family's farm. Proof that it's best to sometimes ignore scouting reports, tbh.


What I preach constantly

[DAF86]

The scouting report on Jokic was that he was fat, addicted to soda, didn't really like basketball and said his goal was to work on his family's farm. Proof that it's best to sometimes ignore scouting reports, tbh.

I was actually reading Nikola's scouting reports not too long ago (to see how some European players scouting reports compared to Pokusevskis) and I was surprised to find this bit:


Strengths: Very high basketball IQ, This is his greatest strength. Strong personality. A team player. Has a great work ethic … Tremendous length … Can really shoot the ball … Hard worker … He was first introduced to real professional training – strength and conditioning as well as basketball workouts in September of 2013 and has shown tremendous improvement in his body … Possesses a big wingpan … Considering the fact that he competes in the Adriatic league, where most players are older than he is, and also that he’s an average athlete, he uses his basketball IQ to succeed… Nikola understands the game really well. Furthermore he is able to follow and execute coach’s instructions. Shows a winning attitude, competes hard in games and practices … A self starter, doesn’t need to constantly be pushed to get the most of his abilties … Well liked by teammates, outgoing, strong character, doesn’t drink or smoke … Young player, born in February of 1995 …

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/nikola-jokic/

Of course there are also things like these:


The big downside, though, is his athleticism. He doesn't get much lift off the floor at all, and he doesn't have the speed burst to drive past opponents or stay in front of them laterally.

It's going to give him major problems on defense and limit him to being a role player on offense.


A high IQ and great length might be enough to earn Jokic some minutes early in his career, but he won't provide enough defense or scoring firepower to gain a substantial role.

It will take time for him to prove he can compensate for his underwhelming athleticism and compete with NBA bigs for long stretches.


If Jokic can deliver accurate shooting and make the right plays when the ball is in his hands, he could be a poor-man's Diaw and a long-range threat like Antic. Jokic would probably be the fourth or fifth scoring option when he's in the game, but all that matters is whether he plays efficiently.

Unfortunately, his defense will likely prevent him from ever playing 30-plus minutes or starting. However, there's no shame in being a respectable reserve on a winning team in the future.

:lol

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2096255-nikola-jokic-nba-draft-2014-highlights-scouting-report-and-more.amp.html

[RD2191]

Because PATFO is overrated tbh

[Ozballer]

Jokic has a lot of old man game, very smart player. To big men who think small ball, this is the ticket. He is how you play big man game. To be honest, I see a lot of Timmy in him reading the plays. It’s so beautiful to look at.

great take. And he ALSO runs the floor and his team, it is so clear to see with those side cameras in the bubble court how active he was organising, directing etc etc. Brilliant player

[R. DeMurre]

If Jokic can deliver accurate shooting and make the right plays when the ball is in his hands, he could be a poor-man's Diaw and a long-range threat like Antic. Jokic would probably be the fourth or fifth scoring option when he's in the game, but all that matters is whether he plays efficiently.




:lol

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EiAdsEMUYAsTZ8A?format=jpg&name=large

[daslicer]

Jokic has a lot of old man game, very smart player. To big men who think small ball, this is the ticket. He is how you play big man game. To be honest, I see a lot of Timmy in him reading the plays. It’s so beautiful to look at.

He's admitted in interviews that he's studied Tim Duncan's post game. He also said earlier this year that he wanted to be the Tim Duncan of Denver. A very likable player and my favorite Non-Spur.

[DMC]

If anything should be apparent to NBA fans its that physique doesn't equate to ability or talent. Look at how effective Diaw was, or Blair when he was effective, or Curry, or Doncic, or Dirk, or Klay, or Bird, or Magic. None of these guys had great physiques. Even Timmy didn't have a great physique. They were great players though. Marc Gasol was a dumpy kid.

[RD2191]

If anything should be apparent to NBA fans its that physique doesn't equate to ability or talent. Look at how effective Diaw was, or Blair when he was effective, or Curry, or Doncic, or Dirk, or Klay, or Bird, or Magic. None of these guys had great physiques. Even Timmy didn't have a great physique. They were great players though. Marc Gasol was a dumpy kid.
Too bad that wasn't the case for you, fat sack of shit. :lol

[DAF86]

:lol

I was looking for these scouting reports to see how some of these aspects could translate to our guy, Pokusevski. I found the following bits interesting:


These deficiencies will be most glaring on the defensive side, where he'll struggle to keep up with NBA-caliber speed. Whether he's guarding power forwards or centers, he'll have trouble staying in front of them or consistently protecting the rim.

These are some of the concerns regarding Poku. He will struggle on defense keeping up laterally with "NBA-caliber speed". Jokic, without being even an average defender, is still far from a liability out there. Granted, Jokic is strictly a center and Poku will probably have to guard opposing PF's, but Poku is also infinitely more mobile than Jokic, and if a guy like Jokic isn't a liability on this league of constant pick and switch, then I see no reason why Pokusevski should be one (at least on the perimeter).


He also won't be as effective on the boards as he is in the Adriatic League.

This reminds me of R.C. saying Scola wouldn't be able to rebound at the NBA level. Rebounding always translates from Europe to the NBA, always. Don't ask me why but it just happens. Maybe because the spacier courts of the NBA allow for less contesting on rebounds, or maybe for another reason, but this is just a fact: if a Europe guy makes it on the NBA, he will see his rebounding numbers increase. Given the fact that Poku is already a pretty damn good rebounder in Europe, his potential is mouth watering on this aspect of the game.


The slow-footed tendencies will also hurt his chances to create offense. Even on closeout drives, his slashing will get corralled pretty easily by help defenders, and he won't be able to elevate over upper-echelon defenders.

Another aspect that people need to realize in the "Europe to NBA" transition: offense comes way easier in the NBA despite the glaring athletic difference in defenders. If a guy can break down a defense on Europe, he will be able to break down a defense on the NBA. The reasons for this are obvious: spacier courts and friendlier rules for offenses.


As a second-tier prospect, he may not be expected to produce much, but you can't underestimate a player with good instincts and intelligence.

This one stuck with me: "you can't underestimate a player with good instincts and intelligence". IQ >>> any other basketball trait (or thing in life). Can somebody name me an all-time great that was known for not being intelligent in a basketball court? What about any dumb great role players (the type that help you win championships)?

Sure, there are plenty of examples of all-star (or even superstar) players that accomplished that status on skills and athletic ability alone, while displaying subpar IQs. Guys like Westbrook, Iverson, Rose, Carmelo, etc. What do they all have in common? At the end of the day, you are better off trading them away because you realize you can't never win with them no matter how talented they are.

Sure, if you have the chance to select between a Russell Westbrook or a Robert Horry you have to go with the former, don't get me wrong. :lol

But if your choice comes down to same level of talent, you are better off going with the guy that shows a higher IQ. You are better off with a Dwayne Wade than a Carmelo Anthony, or with a Derrick White than a Dejounte Murray, or, in this case, an Aleksej Pokusevski than a Precious Achiuwa.

[R. DeMurre]

If anything should be apparent to NBA fans its that physique doesn't equate to ability or talent. Look at how effective Diaw was, or Blair when he was effective, or Curry, or Doncic, or Dirk, or Klay, or Bird, or Magic. None of these guys had great physiques. Even Timmy didn't have a great physique. They were great players though. Marc Gasol was a dumpy kid.

Also why I think advanced stats are so important, especially when they contradict the "eye test." A season's worth of objective stats don't have the flash of slam dunk posterizations or crossover broken ankles, but they usually tell a more accurate story regarding a player's effectiveness and contributions to winning.

[ZeusWillJudge]

I was looking for these scouting reports to see how some of these aspects could translate to our guy, Pokusevski.


Brah... Jokic was big and strong as hell. Pokusevski is built like Jack Skellington.

To be fair, I think Jokic juiced to build muscle and lose baby fat. Maybe if Pokusevski did a chemical summer, he could put on enough weight.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.folkmanis.com%2Fprod-154-1-531-14%2Fjack-skellington.htm&psig=AOvVaw34A72Bx4GAj5A5JjwnInBY&ust=1600321279371000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCKCevbz77OsCFQAAAAAdAAAAABANhttps ://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/protagonists/images/a/a8/JackSkellington.jpg

[TimDunkem]

Fathead was just a talent too good to pass up.

[TimDunkem]

Seriously

the one time they passed on a Euro :lmao

:lmao PATFO

[R. DeMurre]

I was looking for these scouting reports to see how some of these aspects could translate to our guy, Pokusevski. I found the following bits interesting:



These are some of the concerns regarding Poku. He will struggle on defense keeping up laterally with "NBA-caliber speed". Jokic, without being even an average defender, is still far from a liability out there. Granted, Jokic is strictly a center and Poku will probably have to guard opposing PF's, but Poku is also infinitely more mobile than Jokic, and if a guy like Jokic isn't a liability on this league of constant pick and switch, then I see no reason why Pokusevski should be one (at least on the perimeter).



This reminds me of R.C. saying Scola wouldn't be able to rebound at the NBA level. Rebounding always translates from Europe to the NBA, always. Don't ask me why but it just happens. Maybe because the spacier courts of the NBA allow for less contesting on rebounds, or maybe for another reason, but this is just a fact: if a Europe guy makes it to the NBA, he will see his rebounding numbers increase. Given the fact that Poku is already a pretty damn good rebounder in Europe, his potential is mouth watering on this aspect of the game.



Another aspect that people need to realize in the "Europe to NBA" transition: offense comes way easier in the NBA despite the glaring athletic difference in defenders. If a guy can break down a defense on Europe, he will be able to break down a defense on the NBA. The reasons for this are obvious: spacier courts and friendlier rules for offenses.



This one stuck with me: "you can't underestimate a player with good instincts and intelligence". IQ >>> any other basketball trait (or thing in life). Can somebody name me an all-time great that was known for not being intelligent in a basketball court? What about any dumb great role players (the type that help you win championships)?

Sure, there are plenty of examples of all-star (or even superstar) players that accomplished that status on skills and athletic ability alone, while displaying subpar IQs. Guys like Westbrook, Iverson, Rose, Carmelo, etc. What do they all have in common? At the end of the day, you are better off trading them away because you realize you can't never win with them no matter how talented they are.

Sure, if you have the chance to select between a Russell Westbrook or a Robert Horry you have to go with the former, don't get me wrong. :lol

But if your choice comes down to same level of talent, you are better off going with the guy that shows a higher IQ. You are better off with a Dwayne Wade than a Carmelo Anthony, or with a Derrick White than a Dejounte Murray, or, in this case, an Aleksej Pokusevski than a Precious Achiuwa.



Yeah, watching Jokic & the Nuggets tonight had me wondering how many GMs, scouts, and coaches were also watching and thinking about another 7' Serb with great passing skills and a sky high BB IQ... Jokic was the best player on the floor while shooting 5-13-- that looks a lot like Pokusevski's stat lines during a 10-1 run while playing for Olympiacos B, who were 6-3 when he didn't play. Jokic was too fat, and Pokusevski is too skinny. They might be the Laurel and Hardy of Serbian draft surprises.

[DAF86]

Brah... Jokic was big and strong as hell. Pokusevski is built like Jack Skellington.

To be fair, I think Jokic juiced to build muscle and lose baby fat. Maybe if Pokusevski did a chemical summer, he could put on enough weight.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.folkmanis.com%2Fprod-154-1-531-14%2Fjack-skellington.htm&psig=AOvVaw34A72Bx4GAj5A5JjwnInBY&ust=1600321279371000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCKCevbz77OsCFQAAAAAdAAAAABANhttps ://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/protagonists/images/a/a8/JackSkellington.jpg

Yeah, I wasn't looking specifically for similar players, just similar backgrounds (to see just how much weight the competition component really has). The most obvious example is Giannis since is literally the same league, but that's just one example. I was trying to find for some others. Manu is another good one since he played second division in Italy at an even older age than Pokusevski.

[DAF86]

Seriously

the one time they passed on a Euro :lmao

:lmao PATFO

I'm afraid what will happen if we pass on another one, tbh.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Yeah, I wasn't looking specifically for similar players, just similar backgrounds (to see just how much weight the competition component really has). The most obvious example is Giannis since is literally the same league, but that's just one example. I was trying to find for some others. Manu is another good one since he played second division in Italy at an even older age than Pokusevski.


:lol I knew what you meant.

I really do think Jokic got better about the same time that brow ridge started getting prominent. Better living through chemistry.

[daslicer]

Won't knock the Spurs for missing out on him. It is what it is there are 29 other teams that didn't think he was going to amount to anything. The next 5 years will be the time to judge PATFO depending on how our young guys like Keldon,White,Dejounte,Samanic develop along with future draft picks.

[playblair]

dennis lindsey is why the spurs missed on jokic........lindsey was not a fan of jokic

[Spursfanfromafar]

Jokic is basically Ryan Richards had Richards gotten way better instead of being content to waste his talent. Nikola didn't seem to care in Europe, but they Nuggets managed to talk sense into him during that stash season.

dude, just stop. You are still going on about Ryan Richards?

[Chinook]

dude, just stop. You are still going on about Ryan Richards?

Um... Do you not get the post? Jokic was a second-rounder at all because he didn't seem to want to play basketball. There are other talented players who never seem to want to put the work to make it. Richards was objectively one of those. We're talking about an NBA where completely scrubs like Ajinca got MLE contracts just because they could pretend to shoot threes. Richards was a seven-footer with good agility and a very good shot for a big at the time. He didn't even get a d-league spot because he didn't want to have to work to get minutes. Dude has been bouncing to lower and more obscure leagues where he can dominate without putting in effort. Had Jokic decided he just wanted to be a slob his whole life, he would've been on the same trajectory.

Does that mean I think Richards would've been Jokic had he tried? No, and you should get away from whatever made you assume that. Were they are similar crossroads in their careers and those different paths? Yes, and in a thread explaining why teams passed on Jokic, it's important to draw comparisons where those red flags didn't resolve themselves for the better.

[DAF86]

Um... Do you not get the post? Jokic was a second-rounder at all because he didn't seem to want to play basketball. There are other talented players who never seem to want to put the work to make it. Richards was objectively one of those. We're talking about an NBA where completely scrubs like Ajinca got MLE contracts just because they could pretend to shoot threes. Richards was a seven-footer with good agility and a very good shot for a big at the time. He didn't even get a d-league spot because he didn't want to have to work to get minutes. Dude has been bouncing to lower and more obscure leagues where he can dominate without putting in effort. Had Jokic decided he just wanted to be a slob his whole life, he would've been on the same trajectory.

Does that mean I think Richards would've been Jokic had he tried? No, and you should get away from whatever made you assume that. Were they are similar crossroads in their careers and those different paths? Yes, and in a thread explaining why teams passed on Jokic, it's important to draw comparisons where those red flags didn't resolve themselves for the better.

This NBAdraft.net piece:

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/nikola-jokic/

describes Jokic as a "hard worker" with "great work ethic" that "doesn't need to be pushed to get the most out of his abilities".

The guy that did Jokic's scouting report for this site clearly knew something most didn't back then, tbh.

[RD2191]

dude, just stop. You are still going on about Ryan Richards?
:rollin

[Chinook]

This NBAdraft.net piece:

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/nikola-jokic/

describes Jokic as a "hard worker" with "great work ethic" that "doesn't need to be pushed to get the most out of his abilities".

The guy that did Jokic's scouting report for this site clearly knew something most didn't back then, tbh.

NBAdraft.net is like the weirdest site though. Their mocks tend to be really far out of the consensus, and their player comparisons are a meme. Hell even in that report, it suggests that Jokic was maxed out as a prospect.

[cd98]

Denver picked McDermott in the first round. Clearly they didn't know Jokic was going to be special.

[Dex]

Everyone says Porzingis is the unicorn, but it was Jokic all along.

[timvp]

NBAdraft.net is like the weirdest site though. Their mocks tend to be really far out of the consensus, and their player comparisons are a meme. Hell even in that report, it suggests that Jokic was maxed out as a prospect.

Yeah, sometimes it seems like NBADraft.net is a parody site, tbh. Case in point, DeShawn Stevenson's NBA comparison and the write-up that was amazingly wrong...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D15DXvyX0AANar2.jpg


They've never really been a place to go for scouting reports. I like that they don't follow the crowd with their mock drafts ... but usually they are the ones who are way off. Are they so far off as a subtle form of clickbait? Possibly.

[Dejounte]

Yeah, sometimes it seems like NBADraft.net is a parody site, tbh. Case in point, DeShawn Stevenson's NBA comparison and the write-up that was amazingly wrong...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D15DXvyX0AANar2.jpg


They've never really been a place to go for scouting reports. I like that they don't follow the crowd with their mock drafts ... but usually they are the ones who are way off. Are they so far off as a subtle form of clickbait? Possibly.

A broken clock is right twice a day

The fact that they were right on Jokic doesnt mean they will be for others

Like I stress all the time, DO NOT RELY ON SCOUTING REPORTS, MOCK DRAFTS, OR BIG BOARDS

even if it was a nice website like tankathon

That's only if you're taking draft season seriously

But if you're a casual, go ahead. Just don't pretend you know anything for sure :)

Not shading anyone here, just spitting truth

[BackHome]

Plus as always people say Centers are dinosaurs we don’t need them anymore.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Meh, lots of teams passed on Jokic. By 2014 most of the league had caught up with the Spurs' efforts to scout international talent, so you could make that argument for most of the league. Unproven, slow and fat. I can see why he was overlooked. Intuition on the court is probably pretty hard to measure in terms of how it will translate to the NBA level of play.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Oh, and Denver took Doug McDermott with the #11 pick that year.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Proving that there will always be diamonds in the euro rough you just have to find it

[daslicer]

Yeah, sometimes it seems like NBADraft.net is a parody site, tbh. Case in point, DeShawn Stevenson's NBA comparison and the write-up that was amazingly wrong...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D15DXvyX0AANar2.jpg


They've never really been a place to go for scouting reports. I like that they don't follow the crowd with their mock drafts ... but usually they are the ones who are way off. Are they so far off as a subtle form of clickbait? Possibly.

They were right about him being a "Super character".

[RC_Drunkford]

the one time these idiots should've drafted a Euro...they go and draft Kyle Anderson :pctoss

[Brazil]

Because PATFO is overrated tbh

:cry It Still Hurts RD ? :cry

[Dejounte]

the one time these idiots should've drafted a Euro...they go and draft Kyle Anderson :pctoss

If Kawhi had stayed, Kyle would have been a seamless transition from Diaw. It was a good pick at the time but didnt make sense after Kawhi left.

[daslicer]

Meh, lots of teams passed on Jokic. By 2014 most of the league had caught up with the Spurs' efforts to scout international talent, so you could make that argument for most of the league. Unproven, slow and fat. I can see why he was overlooked. Intuition on the court is probably pretty hard to measure in terms of how it will translate to the NBA level of play.

Agreed this is exactly how I feel. I don't think even the nuggets thought he was going to be great. I remember reading a story about how early on they were more high on Nurkic. They thought Nurkic was going to be the better player and thought about trading Jokic. Jokic then had a string of good games and they decided to get rid of Nurkic.

[exstatic]

Oh, and Denver took Doug McDermott with the #11 pick that year.

That was a trade pick. If you look a bit further back, CHI picked Nurkic for them.

[Kawhitstorm]

Yeah, sometimes it seems like NBADraft.net is a parody site, tbh. Case in point, DeShawn Stevenson's NBA comparison and the write-up that was amazingly wrong...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D15DXvyX0AANar2.jpg


They've never really been a place to go for scouting reports. I like that they don't follow the crowd with their mock drafts ... but usually they are the ones who are way off. Are they so far off as a subtle form of clickbait? Possibly.

Fat Head was compared to Magic :lmao

[R. DeMurre]

It wasn't very long ago that Denver's starting PG was Jameer Nelson, and people debated whether Murray or Mudiay might be the PG of the future. Now Murray's a star and Mudiay is a 3rd string bench guy. It's not always easy to tell how a 19/20 year old is going to mature and progress.