So the Patriots suck, but...

[Will Hunting]

:lmao the retards who think it was Belichick who made Brady and not the other way around.

[Blake]

Especially since Hoodie is a defensive Coach

[Blake]

Oh you mean with the SB appearances tho I guess

[Will Hunting]

Especially since Hoodie is a defensive Coach
Well yeah the argument that Belichick’s defensive prowess inflated Brady’s ability as a quarterback has never been coherent or logical, but this season should end the stupidity for good unless something drastic changes.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Well yeah the argument that Belichick’s defensive prowess inflated Brady’s ability as a quarterback has never been coherent or logical, but this season should end the stupidity for good unless something drastic changes.

Tampa's defense under Arians is awesome, tbh. And most of their defensive core has been on the team for awhile, like Lavonte David, JPP, Barrett, etc... it's almost as if Brady some how makes the defense better as well. Unless Nick Foles is on the other side, I guess. :lol

If I were you I'd seriously consider changing my skin to Tampa until Brady retires, because the Patriots aren't going anywhere with Newton; it's looking more and more like a 6-10 type of season for the Patriots and at some point, maybe next year, they'll actually have to rebuild, which means letting go of the McCourtys and Hightower's of the world.

[Will Hunting]

Tampa's defense under Arians is awesome, tbh. And most of their defensive core has been on the team for awhile, like Lavonte David, JPP, Barrett, etc... it's almost as if Brady some how makes the defense better as well. Unless Nick Foles is on the other side, I guess. :lol

If I were you I'd seriously consider changing my skin to Tampa until Brady retires, because the Patriots aren't going anywhere with Newton; it's looking more and more like a 6-10 type of season for the Patriots and at some point, maybe next year, they'll actually have to rebuild, which means letting go of the McCourtys and Hightower's of the world.
:lol “seriously consider changing my skin” I guess I don’t take the profile skin I have on a sports message board as seriously as you do

:lmao giving credit to Tampa’s defense. Brady has 18 touchdowns and 4 interceptions so far this year. He’s been successful without Belichick while Belichick has tripped over his down dick without Brady. That’s it and that’s allPERIOD.

[MultiTroll]

I think the Cam fumble sets the 6-10 season on course.

Wonder if Bellicheat can't stand Cums play or is like, oh well it was a good run.

[DAF86]

This is a very disingenuous thread, tbh.

1st) the Patriots aren't just lacking Brady from last season. They are missing almost an entire lineup of players.

2nd) nobody said Belichick could keep winning at the same pace with any QB. He's got to settle with a guy that was thought to never set foot on an NFL field again, yet alone be a starter, tbh.

Belichick already did good with a below average QB when Brady wasn't around, when the Pats went 11-5 under Matt Cassell. It is just common logic to suppose he will get back to his winning ways with a starting caliber QB and a full roster, tbh.

[Will Hunting]

This is a very disingenuous thread, tbh.

1st) the Patriots aren't just lacking Brady from last season. They are missing almost an entire lineup of players.

2nd) nobody said Belichick could keep winning at the same pace with any QB. He's got to settle with a guy that was thought to never set foot on an NFL field again, yet alone be a starter, tbh.

Belichick already did good with a below average QB when Brady wasn't around, when the Pats went 11-5 under Matt Cassell. It is just common logic to suppose he will get back to his winning ways with a starting caliber QB and a full roster, tbh.
:lmao Belichick’s career record as a coach without Brady is below .500, you’re cherry picking the one decent season he had without Brady (which was largely due to a laughably easy schedule).

:lmao “his winning ways” of being below .500 without the GOAT.

[DAF86]

:lmao Belichick’s career record as a coach without Brady is below .500, you’re cherry picking the one decent season he had without Brady (which was largely due to a laughably easy schedule).

:lmao “his winning ways” of being below .500 without the GOAT.

That sub .500 record was created before Belichick was Belichick, tbh.

[Will Hunting]

That sub .500 record was created before Belichick was Belichick, tbh.
I think you mean to say it was created before he had Tom Brady.

[Neo.]

:lmao Belichick’s career record as a coach without Brady is below .500, you’re cherry picking the one decent season he had without Brady (which was largely due to a laughably easy schedule).

exactly. a noticeably easier schedule than the season before, and it was still a 5 game dropoff while retaining pretty much all the key players from the previous season

for comparison, a 12-4 team that has a 5 game dropoff, would be 7-9. its so stupid when people try to use that example as a way to discredit brady :lol

"oh look, a QB with the same team won 5 less games than brady, which means hes almost as good as him, its all about the system!!!!!"

completely retarded

[DAF86]

exactly. a noticeably easier schedule than the season before, and it was still a 5 game dropoff while retaining pretty much all the key players from the previous season

for comparison, a 12-4 team that has a 5 game dropoff, would be 7-9. its so stupid when people try to use that example as a way to discredit brady :lol

Well, of course, did you expect Matt fucking Cassell to win at the same rate than a HoF QB? :lol

[Neo.]

Well, of course, did you expect Matt fucking Cassell to win at the same rate than a HoF QB? :lol

no, i didnt. who would? but thats the point. if he did end up doing a comparable job, then there would be a legit argument that brady was largely a product of bills system. but it wasnt comparable at all, both in terms of stats and team success. thus proving my point, that its a stupid example that people use to try to discredit brady.

[DAF86]

no, i didnt. who would? but thats the point. if he did end up doing a comparable job, then there would be a legit argument that brady was largely a product of bills system. but it wasnt comparable at all, both in terms of stats and team success. thus proving my point, that its a stupid example that people use to try to discredit brady.

I don't think even the biggest of Brady's haters would say that he is a Matt Cassell level QB without Belichick, tbh. :lol

What many people say, to which I'm part of, is that Brady owns his GOAT status to the circumstances he was put in. Place any other HoF level QB on the 2000 Pats and they would be the majority GOAT right now.

[Neo.]

I don't think even the biggest of Brady's haters would say that he is a Matt Cassell level QB without Belichick, tbh. :lol

didnt claim that at all. just that people used that example to dismiss him. but cassell was so incredibly inferior, its a terrible argument to make.


What many people say, to which I'm part of, is that Brady owns his GOAT status to the circumstances he was put in. Place any other HoF level QB on the 2000 Pats and they would be the majority GOAT right now.

tbh you could find ways to say that about any "GOAT"

would jerry rice have been the goat WR if he hadnt been in a transcendent passing offense system with one of the greatest QBs ever? perhaps if irvin, OBJ, moss, TO, fitz, or a number of other players were in the same situation, they would be considered the GOAT WR

would mike have been the goat if he didn't have a great team built around him and got to enjoy playing his prime years during a weaker era competition-wise of the NBA? perhaps if lebron, kobe, bird, magic or others got to have the same situation, they might have had the same success and be considered the GOAT of basketball

coulda woulda shoulda

tom had a good situation no question, and he made the best of it and deserves credit for it, as opposed to saying he owes it all to the circumstances. thats just ridiculous.

[DAF86]

didnt claim that at all. just that people used that example to dismiss him. but cassell was so incredibly inferior, its a terrible argument to make.



tbh you could find ways to say that about any "GOAT"

would jerry rice have been the goat WR if he hadnt been in a transcendent passing offense system with one of the greatest QBs ever? perhaps if irvin, OBJ, moss, TO, fitz, or a number of other players were in the same situation, they would be considered the GOAT WR

would mike have been the goat if he didn't have a great team built around him and got to enjoy playing his prime years during a weaker era competition-wise of the NBA? perhaps if lebron, kobe, bird, magic or others got to have the same situation, they might have had the same success and be considered the GOAT of basketball

coulda woulda shoulda

tom had a good situation no question, and he made the best of it and deserves credit for it, as opposed to saying he owes it all to the circumstances. thats just ridiculous.

I agree to a certain point, but it isn't exactly the same. MJ, even as a young buck that failed to win a playoffs round, was still seen as the best player in the World. Everybody knew it was a matter of time untill he got a team around him to start winning. Brady was a 200 overall pick. Put Brady on any other team and it is not a forgone conclusion that he goes on to become a HoF QB. Let's say the Colts drafted Brady, he would have been a backup to Manning for at least 4/5 years. Jordan was going to succeed anywhere. Brady? There are many scenarios where he doesn't get to become even close to the accomplished player he ended up being.

[Millennial_Messiah]

:lol “seriously consider changing my skin” I guess I don’t take the profile skin I have on a sports message board as seriously as you do

:lmao giving credit to Tampa’s defense. Brady has 18 touchdowns and 4 interceptions so far this year. He’s been successful without Belichick while Belichick has tripped over his down dick without Brady. That’s it and that’s allPERIOD.
well it appears we're in agreement on the bottom line. Belicheat got lucky to have Brady and never really appreciated it. Now he's stuck with Scam who fumblefaggotted a winnable game away vs Belicheat's stepson team :lol

[Will Hunting]

well it appears we're in agreement on the bottom line. Belicheat got lucky to have Brady and never really appreciated it. Now he's stuck with Scam who fumblefaggotted a winnable game away vs Belicheat's stepson team :lol
Were in agreement there, the Cum Newton experiment isnt going well, granted I’m not sure why Belichick thought having dog shit receiving options was going to work with Newton when it didn’t work with Brady last year. That part isn’t Cum’s fault.

Its also time to put Edelman out of his misery and trade him to Tampa.

[Will Hunting]

Actually I’m not even sure Tampa would want Edelman now. Poor guy :lol

[Neo.]

I agree to a certain point, but it isn't exactly the same. MJ, even as a young buck that failed to win a playoffs round, was still seen as the best player in the World. Everybody knew it was a matter of time untill he got a team around him to start winning. Brady was a 200 overall pick. Put Brady on any other team and it is not a forgone conclusion that he goes on to become a HoF QB. Let's say the Colts drafted Brady, he would have been a backup to Manning for at least 4/5 years. Jordan was going to succeed anywhere. Brady? There are many scenarios where he doesn't get to become not even close to the accomplished player he ended up being.

so if a guy like peyton, aikman or marino was put on the expansion texans with absolutely no offensive line like david carr was, would it have been a guarantee that any of them ends up being a HoF QB?

tbh football probably invites more "what-if" scenarios than any other sport because of how big teams are and that no one plays two ways.

i won't argue that some players had more natural talents and have an argument that they might have done better than tom did in the same situation, but in the end it doesnt matter bc this is simply the way things went, and he made the best of his situation. again, to say he owes it all to the situation is just ridiculous and insulting to him. does he owe some credit to it? absolutely, all great players owe some credit to their situations. but he deserves credit as well.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Were in agreement there, the Cum Newton experiment isnt going well, granted I’m not sure why Belichick thought having dog shit receiving options was going to work with Newton when it didn’t work with Brady last year. That part isn’t Cum’s fault.

Its also time to put Edelman out of his misery and trade him to Tampa.

Actually I’m not even sure Tampa would want Edelman now. Poor guy :lol
They have Scotty Miller now, who is Edelman Jr. but I don't think Arians uses him right. He needs to be a slot guy not an outside deep receiver.

[DAF86]

so if a guy like peyton, aikman or marino was put on the expansion texans with absolutely no offensive line like david carr was, would it have been a guarantee that any of them ends up being a HoF QB?

tbh football probably invites more "what-if" scenarios than any other sport because of how big teams are and that no one plays two ways.

i won't argue that some players had more natural talents and have an argument that they might have done better than tom did in the same situation, but in the end it doesnt matter bc this is simply the way things went, and he made the best of his situation. again, to say he owes it all to the situation is just ridiculous and insulting to him. does he owe some credit to it? absolutely, all great players owe some credit to their situations. but he deserves credit as well.

That I can agree with. He made the most of his opportunity, that's for sure.

[Will Hunting]

What I do know is that a Peyton-Belichick marriage would have lasted 5 years tops. Peyton would have eventually start pouting about not being able to call his own plays. Same thing with a Rodgers-Belichick team. Mike McCarthy was a horrible coach but Rodgers undercut him left and right.

[Blake]

That sub .500 record was created before Belichick was Belichick, tbh.

Who was Belichick before he was Belichick?

[DAF86]

Who was Belichick before he was Belichick?

A noob at his job. Everybody gets better with time.

[DAF86]

He probably didn't have his cheating tricks perfectioned yet, tbh.

[Blake]

A noob at his job. Everybody gets better with time.

Lol that's the dumbest argument ever. If that were true no coach would ever get fired.

[DAF86]

Lol that's the dumbest argument ever. If that were true no coach would ever get fired.

So now experience helping humans get better at pretty much anything they do is the dumbest argument ever? Sorry, but THAT might be the dumbest argument ever. :lol

Do you drive better now than the first time you did it? Do you fuck better now than the first time you did it? Are you better at your job now than in your first day of work? Yeah, that's what I thought.

Every human being improves with experience. Some more than others, but there isn't a single person in the history of mankind that doesn't improve on a particular task with experience.

Coaches get sacked for a number of different reasons (one being that no matter how much they improve with experience, they are still always going to suck 'cause they were never qualified to begin with), but, no matter how shitty a coach is, every coach is better 5 years into his profession than on his first season.

[Will Hunting]

Lol Belichick magically stopped being a noob at his job at the same time he had Tom Brady as his starting quarterback but DAF thinks those are two unrelated events and their timing is just a coincidence.

[Silver&Black]

:worthy: OP

[Silver&Black]

Lol Belichick magically stopped being a noob at his job at the same time he had Tom Brady as his starting quarterback but DAF thinks those are two unrelated events and their timing is just a coincidence.

Isn't he the same guy who will swear up and down that Peyton Manning was the better of the two?

[MultiTroll]

:lol Brady still making great plays to decide the game.
:lol Brady Sniffers.

https://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/2046751

[lefty]

Nah Gronk made Brady :D

[Mitch]

Hard watching pats with Cam :lol

Bill wasn't throwing the ball or making split second decisions on the field, anybody who thought Brady was going to play like a because of a team change tosb is retarded :lol