Official 2020 Draft Day Thread (Begins at 7PM CST)

[DPG21920]

I would trade all the Spurs youth for either Booker/Ayton Ja/JJJ Luka or Zion

[TimDunkem]

^And not even think twice.

[Chinook]

It's just such a weird debate. Like who cares if the Spurs don't have a young star? It's not the biggest deal in the world, two years after losing the one they had. I really do thinks folks are so conditioned to the team pulling new foundations out of its ass that they're freaking out that the team might just be a mediocre club for a while.

[daslicer]

]Phoenix has a superstar now in Booker[/B], and Memphis has a probable future one in Morant.

Booker is on the verge of being a superstar. Prior to this year he was an inefficient chucker who was scoring a bunch of points on a bad team. During the bubble it looked like he was finally turning the corner and actually leading his team to wins. If the Suns get into the playoffs this year and Booker does well then I would anoint him as a superstar.

Morant looks like he's going to be a special player but historically one thing to note is teams usually don't win championships with a PG being their best player. In the last 40 years it's only happened 3 times with the Pistons/Isiah Thomas back to back titles and Curry Warriors in '15. Grizzlies future hinges on Jaren Jackson Jr recovering from his torn meniscus. Him and Morant had a great thing going up until he got hurt.

Things can change instantaneously in this league. Spurs can't truly start rebuilding until Demar and LMA are gone which they will be after this year. As bad as it is I think the Spurs are, they have a good chance of being at least a playoff team again in a few years. Small market teams are usually good at rebuilding. The only ones in recent years that I have seen that suck at it is Charlotte,Cleveland,Detroit,Sacremento.

[Dejounte]

It's just such a weird debate. Like who cares if the Spurs don't have a young star? It's not the biggest deal in the world, two years after losing the one they had. I really do thinks folks are so conditioned to the team pulling new foundations out of its ass that they're freaking out that the team might just be a mediocre club for a while.

People are prisoners of the moment. People think DeMar & Aldridge are horrible, when the truth is you can place either of them on a team filled with the same caliber players Jimmy Butler is surrounded with and they would see the same success. Jimmy Butler's stock rose this year and it isn't because he suddenly became some big time superstar. He's the same 2nd rate star he's always been. The difference is, he's the big name on a squad with solid role players who all help contribute to winning.

If maybe our young core can start developing well enough to create perfect synergy a la the Heat, this team can go places.

But it's also because the Heat are in the East, however...

[B1gduff]

Phoenix has a superstar now in Booker, and Memphis has a probable future one in Morant.
They are, but if the rest of the team ca't develop there not going anywhere. Bookers been are star, not a supserstart for the [past 3 years and the Suns have been a lottory team.

Morant has a chance to be a start aswell, but that teams is easily year or 2 years away from being serious contenders.

[Robz4000]

They are, but if the rest of the team ca't develop there not going anywhere. Bookers been are star, not a supserstart for the [past 3 years and the Suns have been a lottory team.

Morant has a chance to be a start aswell, but that teams is easily year or 2 years away from being serious contenders.

Booker was just a chucker before this past season but morphed into a legit centerpiece by the end of the bubble, and Ayton also looks like a future top big man. As for Memphis, being two years away from contending is a lot better than where the Spurs are and will be in two years themselves.

[SpurPadre]

Also, LOL at the Clippers drafting a dude named Scrub.

[DPG21920]

People are prisoners of the moment. People think DeMar & Aldridge are horrible, when the truth is you can place either of them on a team filled with the same caliber players Jimmy Butler is surrounded with and they would see the same success. Jimmy Butler's stock rose this year and it isn't because he suddenly became some big time superstar. He's the same 2nd rate star he's always been. The difference is, he's the big name on a squad with solid role players who all help contribute to winning.

If maybe our young core can start developing well enough to create perfect synergy a la the Heat, this team can go places.

But it's also because the Heat are in the East, however...

Hahaha

[objective]

People are prisoners of the moment. People think DeMar & Aldridge are horrible, when the truth is you can place either of them on a team filled with the same caliber players Jimmy Butler is surrounded with and they would see the same success. Jimmy Butler's stock rose this year and it isn't because he suddenly became some big time superstar. He's the same 2nd rate star he's always been. The difference is, he's the big name on a squad with solid role players who all help contribute to winning.

If maybe our young core can start developing well enough to create perfect synergy a la the Heat, this team can go places.

But it's also because the Heat are in the East, however...

I don't know ... Heat must have had some good coaching also

Pop cut Bam for some scrubby Zeller or Plumlee triplet

[Mr. Body]

It's just such a weird debate. Like who cares if the Spurs don't have a young star? It's not the biggest deal in the world, two years after losing the one they had. I really do thinks folks are so conditioned to the team pulling new foundations out of its ass that they're freaking out that the team might just be a mediocre club for a while.

I personally expected years of churning badness, like Utah after Stockton and Malone disappeared. That the Spurs seemingly have a roster of fairly decent, active players is a good thing, but I don't think a superstar is walking down that tunnel for a while. It's the fate of very small markets. We're just spoiled.

[Chinook]

I personally expected years of churning badness, like Utah after Stockton and Malone disappeared. That the Spurs seemingly have a roster of fairly decent, active players is a good thing, but I don't think a superstar is walking down that tunnel for a while. It's the fate of very small markets. We're just spoiled.

Yeah. Like if they did pull off a Gallo trade or a Grant trade or whatever, would people really be surprised to see them snag a playoff spot? You could see three teams from last year's squad fall off, and the team that seemed to be the most obvious replacement is not bad to being a question mark. This is the weakest the conference has been in a while. I don't see a series of realistic moves to become a contender out there, but they could snag that fourth seed while holding onto their best young players.

[R. DeMurre]

People are prisoners of the moment. People think DeMar & Aldridge are horrible, when the truth is you can place either of them on a team filled with the same caliber players Jimmy Butler is surrounded with and they would see the same success. Jimmy Butler's stock rose this year and it isn't because he suddenly became some big time superstar. He's the same 2nd rate star he's always been. The difference is, he's the big name on a squad with solid role players who all help contribute to winning.


I think you're minimizing what Butler brings to a team. The only time the Timberwolves have made the playoffs with KAT was the year Butler played with him, and the 76ers with Butler were one shot away from beating the eventual champs Toronto. Both teams suffered obvious declines when Butler left. I think 2nd rate is a bit harsh for a guy who meets the eye test, has great analytics, and has a proven track record of success.

[Dejounte]

I think you're minimizing what Butler brings to a team. The only time the Timberwolves have made the playoffs with KAT was the year Butler played with him, and the 76ers with Butler were one shot away from beating the eventual champs Toronto. Both teams suffered obvious declines when Butler left. I think 2nd rate is a bit harsh for a guy who meets the eye test, has great analytics, and has a proven track record of success.

Meh. There's a whole lot of context missing behind the success of each team you listed that makes it unfair to point out Jimmy as the sole reason for each. They all have the common denominator, sure, but that doesn't mean it has to correlate with him being the primary factor those successes.

[R. DeMurre]

And no, absolutely not, would a team composed of DeRozan, Bam, Dragic, Nunn, Robinson, & Herro make the finals, in the East or anywhere else. I don't think you really believe that for a second.

[R. DeMurre]

Meh. There's a whole lot of context missing behind the success of each team you listed that makes it unfair to point out Jimmy as the sole reason for each. They all have the common denominator, sure, but that doesn't mean it has to correlate with him being the primary factor those successes.

I didn't say he was the sole reason. I pointed out his trail of successes.

[Atl Spur]

Hey...........I like what we have��. I’m willing to take some bets.......

[C-Dub]

KJ will be the Spurs upcoming star. In 2 years he will have allstar potential and in 3 to 4 years he will partake in his 1st allstar game. People are sleeping on DJM potential. He missed a full season than came back playing with a minutes restrictions to start this past season. He's going to be a pretty good player himself especially on the defensive end and leadership after Patty is gone. If Samanic can surprise us and become a starting caliber PF with a 3pt shot and passing then the Spurs will be good enough to be in playoff contention for years to come. Need to keep Jakob for defensive purposes. Imagine the defensive intangibles we would have with DJM, White, LW4, Vassell, KJ and Jakob. The Spurs are trending in the right direction.

[Chinook]

I think Butler keeps a team's floor at about the same level of DeRozan. But he raises the team's ceiling way higher. I definitely wish the Spurs had gone for him a couple of years ago when he was in Minny. The Spurs with Jimmy, DMDR and LMA may well have won a title that year.

[Dejounte]

KJ will be the Spurs upcoming star. In 2 years he will have allstar potential and in 3 to 4 years he will partake in his 1st allstar game. People are sleeping on DJM potential. He missed a full season than came back playing with a minutes restrictions to start this past season. He's going to be a pretty good player himself especially on the defensive end and leadership after Patty is gone. If Samanic can surprise us and become a starting caliber PF with a 3pt shot and passing then the Spurs will be good enough to be in playoff contention for years to come. Need to keep Jakob for defensive purposes. Imagine the defensive intangibles we would have with DJM, White, LW4, Vassell, KJ and Jakob. The Spurs are trending in the right direction.

DJ says he's been working on strength this offseason. Let's hope so.

[spurspl]

I would trade all the Spurs youth for either Booker/Ayton Ja/JJJ Luka or Zion

its too late to get them now, we have no assets and probably wont. spurs should have tanked before their drafts to get them.

[DAF86]

Borderline all-star if given the opportunity, tbh:

https://bucket2.glanacion.com/anexos/fotos/35/2851935w380.jpg

[DAF86]

I think Butler keeps a team's floor at about the same level of DeRozan. But he raises the team's ceiling way higher. I definitely wish the Spurs had gone for him a couple of years ago when he was in Minny. The Spurs with Jimmy, DMDR and LMA may well have won a title that year.

Not a chance in hell. You analyze basketball in a weird way son.

[Chinook]

Not a chance in hell. You analyze basketball in a weird way son.

You realize that was the year that the Raptors struggled to beat an injured Warriors team, right?

[R. DeMurre]

:lolWhat happened to the assertion that DeRozan with Bam, Dragic, Nunn, Robinson, & Herro could make it to the finals? That provocative little pool sure dried up fast.

[Dejounte]

:lolWhat happened to the assertion that DeRozan with Bam, Dragic, Nunn, Robinson, & Herro could make it to the finals? That provocative little pool sure dried up fast.

Still stand by it. DeRozan helped lead a Toronto Raptors team to the ECF with a worse supporting cast than that...where he faced LeBron. Imagine if Jimmy faced LeBron before he got to the Finals? Hmm..

And circumstances are also way different since we don't know if it was easier to get to the Finals because they were in the bubble. (No one had to play on the road)

[R. DeMurre]

Still stand by it. DeRozan helped lead a Toronto Raptors team to the ECF with a worse supporting cast than that.

And circumstances are also way different since we don't know if it was easier to get to the Finals because they were in the bubble. (No one had to play on the road)

Ok, I'm happy to agree to disagree. I like the vast majority of your basketball takes, but think you're delusional on this one. I don't think DeRozan gets by Giannis & Milwaukee or Tatum & Boston.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/BullsGold/status/1329883601849241602?s=19

Jesus, Pat looks like a different player here. I wish it was him we drafted instead of Devin. Damn.

[TD 21]

:lmao This nonsense again from people who clearly don't watch/follow outside of the Spurs.

Lowry + the 2nd unit was always what led the Raptors, not the net negative pseudo star.

In '16, the Raptors got to the ECF on sheer dumb luck. The Hawks and Celtics, the other pseudo contenders in the conference, just so happened to end up in the Cavaliers side of the bracket. Meanwhile, the Raptors eked by mediocre Pacers and Heat teams, outlasting the latter primarily because they had 2 key injuries to their 1.

[Dejounte]

Oh yeah, here comes the "everything happens because of luck" guy.

[Dejounte]

Let's apply some context to why DeMar got to the ECF and none to Jimmy getting to the Finals (Giannis was out for games too) because it supports my view.

That makes fucking sense. Not.

[DAF86]

You realize that was the year that the Raptors struggled to beat an injured Warriors team, right?

Still no chance of a DeRozan, Aldridge, Butler team to ring. They fit awfully together.

[TD 21]

Let's apply some context to why DeMar got to the ECF and none to Jimmy getting to the Finals (Giannis was out for games too) because it supports my view.

That makes fucking sense. Not.

I didn't say everything, but a lot of it does which is why I always apply context as opposed to spouting results.

The difference is, the Heat were on the verge of being up 3-0 when Antetokounmpo got injured.

I can't stand Butler, but he's long proven he impacts winning at a top 15 level, while DeRozan is perennially a severe net negative.

[Chinook]

Still no chance of a DeRozan, Aldridge, Butler team to ring. They fit awfully together.

They fit better than Butler, Simmons and Embiid did.

[DAF86]

They fit better than Butler, Simmons and Embiid did.

I agree those three aren't a perfect fit either, but that trio is still better than DeRozan, Aldridge, Butler. For starters, the Sixers trio is composed of three excellent defenders.

[Chinook]

I agree those three aren't a perfect fit either, but that trio is still better than DeRozan, Aldridge, Butler. For starters, the Sixers trio is composed of three excellent defenders.

Then you add in Harris and no one else of note. At least the Spurs were likely to have Derrick White (Hadn't broken out yet) and Poeltl. And Simmons can't shoot at all, even free throws, and both he and LMA are at best equal head-cases to LMA and DMDR. Considering how the West actually broke down that year, I think the Spurs make it to the Finals in 16 games or less. It was ripe for the taking.

[DAF86]

Then you add in Harris and no one else of note. At least the Spurs were likely to have Derrick White (Hadn't broken out yet) and Poeltl. And Simmons can't shoot at all, even free throws, and both he and LMA are at best equal head-cases to LMA and DMDR. Considering how the West actually broke down that year, I think the Spurs make it to the Finals in 16 games or less. It was ripe for the taking.

I guess Reddick isn't anyone of note. :lol

Also Embiid, Simmons >>> Aldridge, DeRozan. Embiid and Simmons were at least positive impact players that season.

You overrate our cancer "stars" like crazy. It's almost as if you don't see them play.

[Chinook]

I guess Reddick isn't anyone of note. :lol

Also Embiid, Simmons >>> Aldridge, DeRozan. Embiid and Simmons were at least positive impact players that season.

So are we talking about fit now, or did you move on?

[DAF86]

So are we talking about fit now, or did you move on?

Fit, talent level, impact. Everything. Also, just because the Sixers lost in 7 games on the second round of the EC it doesn't mean the Spurs would have made it out of the West, tbh. :lol

[Chinook]

Fit, talent level, impact. Everything. Also, just because the Sixers lost in 7 games on the second round of the EC it doesn't mean the Spurs would have made it out of the West, tbh. :lol

You can think they wouldn't. But your initial reasoning was fit, which was shown to be false. If it's talent now, we can talk about that instead, though I think it's pretty unambiguous that they'd be at least competitive with the conference in terms of star power.

[DAF86]

You can think they wouldn't. But your initial reasoning was fit, which was shown to be false. If it's talent now, we can talk about that instead, though I think it's pretty unambiguous that they'd be at least competitive with the conference in terms of star power.

How it proved to be false? Because the Sixers lost in the 2nd round of the EC? :lol

[R. DeMurre]

This debate started with Butler being called an overrated 2nd rate star, and now it has morphed into Butler on the Spurs leads them to the finals, and wins a title.

[Chinook]

How it proved to be false? Because the Sixers lost in the 2nd round of the EC? :lol

No, duh. The fit was much more awkward in Philly, and it worked just fine. If it didn't work out in SA wouldn't be because of fit; it would be because of talent and scheming. Clearly three guys who's games down synergize can still overcome that if they are talented enough.

[Chinook]

This debate started with Butler being called an overrated 2nd rate star, and now it has morphed into Butler on the Spurs leads them to the finals, and wins a title.

There was a long-running thread about it at the time. Pretty sure DAF was all for it just like I was. I can't imagine that a) He couldn't see the fit issues then and b) that he was advocating for the Spurs to trade picks and prospects if he didn't think they could've won the title.

[R. DeMurre]

There was a long-running thread about it at the time. Pretty sure DAF was all for it just like I was. I can't imagine that a) He couldn't see the fit issues then and b) that he was advocating for the Spurs to trade picks and prospects if he didn't think they could've won the title.

Feels like deflection to me. What do say about the original opinion that DeRozan, Bam, Dragic, etc go just as far in the playoffs this year as Butler, Bam, Dragic, etc?

[Chinook]

Feels like deflection to me. What do say about the original opinion that DeRozan, Bam, Dragic, etc go just as far in the playoffs this year as Butler, Bam, Dragic, etc?

Deflection? I never said anything about that opinion. I don't think he was a top-five or maybe even top-10 player, but he's basically a shonen protagonist in how he can up his game when backed into a corner against a superior foe. They used to say Tebow would "out-compete" anyone. I always thought that was a stupid term outside of like biology. But I can see that with Butler. Dude has an iron will. DMDR and LMA either would've crumbled or he would've brought out their A-games.

[DAF86]

No, duh. The fit was much more awkward in Philly, andit worked just fine. If it didn't work out in SA wouldn't be because of fit; it would be because of talent and scheming. Clearly three guys who's games down synergize can still overcome that if they are talented enough.

Strongly disagree, tbh.

[DAF86]

There was a long-running thread about it at the time. Pretty sure DAF was all for it just like I was. I can't imagine that a) He couldn't see the fit issues then and b) that he was advocating for the Spurs to trade picks and prospects if he didn't think they could've won the title.

I was in favour of getting Butler for DeRozan. Never wanted to pair them, tbh.

[Chinook]

Strongly disagree, tbh.

It definitely was though. Simmons won't shoot at all, and he can't make free throws. It's really hard to have spacing with that in front of you. Again, talent is a different argument, but Simmons' fit with Embiid just by itself is bad. Add in another non-shooter like Jimmy, and it just gets worse.

[DAF86]

It definitely was though. Simmons won't shoot at all, and he can't make free throws. It's really hard to have spacing with that in front of you. Again, talent is a different argument, but Simmons' fit with Embiid just by itself is bad. Add in another non-shooter like Jimmy, and it just gets worse.

Simmons is a pass first PG, unlike DeRozan who is a shoot first Wing (same as Butler). Simmons is also a much better defender than DeRozan. That makes a hell of a difference. On the other hand, Embiid > Aldridge. He also takes more 3's than 2019 LaMarcus.

[DAF86]

Also, Reddick and Harris >>> any top 2 Spurs role playing guys.

[R. DeMurre]

Deflection? I never said anything about that opinion. I don't think he was a top-five or maybe even top-10 player, but he's basically a shonen protagonist in how he can up his game when backed into a corner against a superior foe. They used to say Tebow would "out-compete" anyone. I always thought that was a stupid term outside of like biology. But I can see that with Butler. Dude has an iron will. DMDR and LMA either would've crumbled or he would've brought out their A-games.

Are you a lawyer? :lolYour deflection game has an iron will! What do say about the original opinion that DeRozan, Bam, Dragic, etc go just as far in the playoffs this year as Butler, Bam, Dragic, etc? YES or NO?

[Chinook]

Simmons is a pass first PG, unlike DeRozan who is a shoot first Wing (same as Butler). Simmons is also a much better defender than DeRozan. That makes a hell of a difference. On the other hand, Embiid > Aldridge. He also takes more 3's than 2019 LaMarcus.

Defense would've been its own thing. White and Butler would've made a strong enough core, not to mention the chances of getting a ring-chaser or two. Simmons is a pass-first PG, but Butler is a shoot-first wing and doesn't need someone running around and setting him up. He's much more a guy who would trade off turns to attack like DeRozan. Of course, DeMar is a really good play-maker in his own right. Simmons is better, but DMDR was more than adequate for fit purposes. Ben not shooting at all factors way more into the poor fit, hence him not fitting with Embiid.

[Chinook]

Are you a lawyer? :lolYour deflection game has an iron will! What do say about the original opinion that DeRozan, Bam, Dragic, etc go just as far in the playoffs this year as Butler, Bam, Dragic, etc? YES or NO?

How is that a deflection

First: Your question is not the point of this thread. Me talking about something else is not avoiding you.

Second: I never made this claim and did not see a reason why I needed to answer it. I never said Bulter was a second-tier star or that he and DeRozan were the same.

Third: I did answer the question about Butler being a second-tier star. I don't care about the question of DeRozan replacing Butler.