What the San Antonio Should Plan to Do Heading Into Free Agency

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/overview-what-san-antonio-spurs-should-do-free-agency/

It seems like most Spurs fans are willing to go higher on Poeltl's contract than I am. I think I've settled on $7 million being my max.

[Robz4000]

Spurs are dangerously thin at the 4/5 if Poeltl walks tbh. I could definitely see them going up to $10mil to retain him unless they have someone else in mind that can potentially start.

Real talk, assuming the Spurs lose Poeltl/Lyles/Metu they can't go into the season with 35-year old LMA as their only legitimate big right?

[jeebus]

Baynes.

[Dhbsr555]

As long as the young guys get run I’m good with whatever they do

[rankingtear]

He is the only rim protector on our group, nobody in the pipeline. He is a ball mover , mobile for 7'1 and a good screener. Resign him for 9-10 then just move some salaries around on the trade deadline to get under the tax.

[venitian navigator]

A flat contract of 7 millions for 4 seasons would be actually just over his actual market value, would guarantee his career regarding money and role on the team and would not impact too much our cap space for next season...

[spurs10]

Thanks for the write-up as usual. Guess we're gonna see what happens over the weekend. Go Spurs!

[Mr. Body]

I don't see how you replace Poetl with anyone remotely adequate for this team.

[Robz4000]

Baynes.

BRING BACK BAYNES

[timvp]

Real talk, assuming the Spurs lose Poeltl/Lyles/Metu they can't go into the season with 35-year old LMA as their only legitimate big right?

I don't see the big deal, tbh. You're comfortable spending $10 million in cap space to fortify the backup center position for a non-contending team? That ....... makes no sense to me.

I think the Spurs should value cap space extremely highly. They obviously aren't going to trade their way out of their current position so having a massive amount of cap space in 2021 should be the focus. Throw part of that away to lock up Poeltl for twice the going rate of a run of the mill center? Yeah, no, I'll pass on that.

I'd spend cap space to retain Derrick White. He's a valuable piece to any type of team. But Poeltl, a guy whose ceiling is a low end starter? I don't see how that's justifiable. Give me $10 million more in cap room than a guy whose archetype is nearing extinction any day of the week, tbh.

[objective]

re: Lyles

Pop might be feeling like doing Bud a solid after the Bogey disaster. Lyles for DJ Wilson & $$$ or a second in the far future could make some sense. Lyles is replacement level but Wilson is worse.

Opens up either time for Luka (ehhh), time for DDR at PF, or playing LMA and Poeltl together. Maybe even KJ at PF

[objective]

I don't see the big deal, tbh. You're comfortable spending $10 million in cap space to fortify the backup center position for a non-contending team? That ....... makes no sense to me.


I assume the people who are fine with giving Poeltl 10 per is that they don't expect he'd be a back-up for very long. One season at most until LMA leaves as a free agent, which makes Poeltl the starter.

He's limited, and the full MLE is a lot to pay for any center who isn't a threat to make an all-star game or crack 27 mpg ... but he'd be an okay starter.

Too bad the Spurs have burned their bridge with Milutinov or he might have been a cheaper than MLE replacement. Throw him on the pile with Scola and Hanga.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Yes. I am willing to go higher for Poeltl for the following reasons -

1. He is an advanced Stats delight with three very high quality & useful abilities - very good in screen actions and rolling, defending in space and on the perimeter and very good at blocking shots. He is good at finishing, but inconsistent. That is something to continue to work on.
2. He is the only true center in the Spurs squad and among the true centers, and except for the superskilled versatile ones -Embiid, Jokic, Porzingis, etc.. he is the best of the rest of them. Which is why he needs to command more than the average center and below the superskilled versatile ones.
3. He is still relatively young (25) and is by all accounts a good, glue guy who is coachable and plays within the system. If the Spurs can find a way to get more minutes and reverse roles with Aldridge, he can thrive better and even possibly grow more in his role.

For these reasons, I think he can and should command a $10 million contract. And I suspect the Spurs will have to match one when some new FOs who value advanced Stats will offer him so much (Pistons? or Kings?).

[Spursfanfromafar]

And yes, I missed saying this in the previous post - the Spurs must find a way to deal Aldridge elsewhere. It makes no sense to think of rebuilding with a young core and yet carry Aldridge with them. DDR fits much better with a rebuilding, young squad as the Bubble showed and there is some trade value for Aldridge as well unlike DDR. The Spurs shouldn't be too greedy about what they get in return for Aldridge.

[kobyz]

The Spurs most go all in for Harden: Murray, Mills, Walker, Luka, Vassell, rights to Milutinov, 2 future first... Can any team beat that offer?
Spurs becoming big time favourite:
White/Forbes
Harden
DeMar/Johnson
Lyles/Rudy
LMA/Jacob

[RC_Drunkford]

If they keep Aldridge and DeRozan the Spurs should try to move Mills and Gay for a starting caliber combo forward who can play SF/PF. Moving Mills opens up a guard spot for the young guys. They could try to trade one of the 2 into salary cap to shed some salary. Jae Crowder would be one target. Christian Wood would be one of my favorites for that position as well. Or they might sign Paul Millsap since Pop loves players close to their 40s.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Great read.

@timvp Interesting that you value cap space that much. What do you think the Spurs should do with it next summer? Try to go after free agents? Plunge into rebuilding after LMA and DDR are gone and trade for bad contracts and picks, etc.? If they go this route they likely try to postpone White's extension as well.

[objective]

If they keep Aldridge and DeRozan the Spurs should try to move Mills and Gay for a starting caliber combo forward who can play SF/PF. Moving Mills opens up a guard spot for the young guys. They could try to trade one of the 2 into salary cap to shed some salary. Jae Crowder would be one target. Christian Wood would be one of my favorites for that position as well. Or they might sign Paul Millsap since Pop loves players close to their 40s.

Gay + Lyles or Mills + Lyles and draft picks might get Aaron Gordon

They were supposedly shopping Gordon to get a lotto pick in 2020, maybe a top 10 protected pick in the allegedly stacked 2021 draft would be enough?

However, while he plays the 4 and 3, his terrible shooting would not help on spacing next to DeRozan at all

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Gay + Lyles or Mills + Lyles and draft picks might get Aaron Gordon

With the next couple of drafts looking to be stacked I wouldn't want them to trade any future first round picks. It's not like a Gordon type player would change their ceiling that much, so I don't think it'd be worth it.

[FireMicoHalili]

so weird to have a logjam on the wings (DeRozan, Walker, Keldon, Vassell) without any clear direction as to where the franchise is going

[cd021]

so weird to have a logjam on the wings (DeRozan, Walker, Keldon, Vassell) without any clear direction as to where the franchise is going

I think the biggest question is about whether they start DeMar at the 4 and bring Lyles off the bench. That means Murray, White and Walker/KJ can play together and frees up minutes for Walker/KJ and Vassell.

On the other hand, that means Lyles and Gay would be playing behind DeMar, that doesn't make a lot of sense. Maybe they start Lyles, have Gay as his backup and close with DeMar at the four.

[szkorhetz]

The Spurs most go all in for Harden: Murray, Mills, Walker, Luka, Vassell, rights to Milutinov, 2 future first... Can any team beat that offer?
Spurs becoming big time favourite:
White/Forbes
Harden
DeMar/Johnson
Lyles/Rudy
LMA/Jacob
It actually makes some sense, but Pop would never coach this diva and the Spurs would go te a really-really dark rebuid in 3 years without any real assests left.

[RC_Drunkford]

Gay + Lyles or Mills + Lyles and draft picks might get Aaron Gordon

They were supposedly shopping Gordon to get a lotto pick in 2020, maybe a top 10 protected pick in the allegedly stacked 2021 draft would be enough?

However, while he plays the 4 and 3, his terrible shooting would not help on spacing next to DeRozan at all

I‘m not giving away a high draft pick in a stacked draft for Aaron Gordon. I‘d keep Lyles, get rid of Gay

[BillMc]

I don't see the big deal, tbh. You're comfortable spending $10 million in cap space to fortify the backup center position for a non-contending team? That ....... makes no sense to me.

I think the Spurs should value cap space extremely highly. They obviously aren't going to trade their way out of their current position so having a massive amount of cap space in 2021 should be the focus. Throw part of that away to lock up Poeltl for twice the going rate of a run of the mill center? Yeah, no, I'll pass on that.

I'd spend cap space to retain Derrick White. He's a valuable piece to any type of team. But Poeltl, a guy whose ceiling is a low end starter? I don't see how that's justifiable. Give me $10 million more in cap room than a guy whose archetype is nearing extinction any day of the week, tbh.

I agree. I know I am in the minority but I think Drew could be a serviceable backup center. Not as good as Jakob but good enough considering the price difference.

[CGD]

Do we know yet if the trade deadline remains the same? (Feb)

[smush]

I agree anymore than 7 million is to much.https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/blob:https://www.spurstalk.com/b628acbb-f3b8-4fe4-b0f7-6ccbab1b20ee

[Atl Spur]

Find a way to get jerami grant.

[mo7888]

I don't value cap space next year as much as most. With so many other teams having space and being more desirable destinations the price for FA's will be high and franchises will be crippled with overpays on bad contracts. That said, I'd still be hesitant to pay $10M for Jakob. $8M would be fine...the market will be interesting though. A S&T with a team like Boston might make sense if they are willing to send back Williams and a pick.

[YoungbuckMurray]

Find a way to get jerami grant.

he would fit so good if we continue to play super up tempo like we did in bubble

[Dejounte]

I agree, anything more than $6 or $7 million is too much for a back-up big. If we trade Aldridge somehow (hopefully for a starting level PF), then I can see it.

[jjktkk]

https://www.spurstalk.com/overview-what-san-antonio-spurs-should-do-free-agency/

It seems like most Spurs fans are willing to go higher on Poeltl's contract than I am. I think I've settled on $7 million being my max.

Thanks for the writeup. Any particular bigs you have in mind for a "suitable replacement for around $5 million"?

[Atl Spur]

I don't value cap space next year as much as most. With so many other teams having space and being more desirable destinations the price for FA's will be high and franchises will be crippled with overpays on bad contracts. That said, I'd still be hesitant to pay $10M for Jakob. $8M would be fine...the market will be interesting though. A S&T with a team like Boston might make sense if they are willing to send back Williams and a pick.

I too think Boston is up to something; I hope we are in on it....

[Dejounte]

Find a way to get jerami grant.

I don't think we're going to do anymore of these big commitment signings to free agents. Not without knowing their character, and not in this economic climate. I'm thinking they believe in their own process of growing their own player vs getting one in free agency, unless they come really cheap...

[tmtcsc]

https://www.spurstalk.com/overview-what-san-antonio-spurs-should-do-free-agency/

It seems like most Spurs fans are willing to go higher on Poeltl's contract than I am. I think I've settled on $7 million being my max.

"— and there’s no evidence that San Antonio is willing to (or, even, knows how to) make moves on the trade market."

:rollin

[ZeusWillJudge]

I want them to COMMIT to something. If they're going to let Poeltl walk over cap space, then commit to maxing cap space next season. I'm fine with that, but don't turn right around and piss off a bunch of cap space on someone else.

As far as Poeltl is concerned, I valued his block parties a lot more than you appear to TIMVP. You never talk about it, but he was really active with the blocks, and he wasn't just swatting them into the 5th row - the Spurs were getting possessions out of a lot of them. I don't think you can just ignore that. And I think he could get more points if used properly. Maybe a "traditional" center can't be used 30 minutes per game, but on a per-36 basis he was averaging a double-double as an offensive afterthought. And 2.9 blocks.

I'm not saying keep Poeltl, but he's probably a better value than some of the others. If they're going to let him walk, then they damned well better be laser-focused on next year and cap space.

[tmtcsc]

Is there anyone on the roster that could be classified as a "Dog"? I mean that in the competitive sense. I don't see it. I think KJ plays with competitive juice but does it really kill him when the team loses? That's what this team really lacks - players who get pissed when they lose and have the ability to raise their game to a higher level in order to win or close an opponent out.

Manu had it and so did Tim.

[CGD]

Re capspace next summer it highly depends on strategy. if the hope is landing free agents, I’m not holding my breath. In contrast if the goal is to be a dumping ground for turdly contracts in exchange for future picks, then I see the value. If the latter, there is no need to wait until next summer though— they should move expirings now.

[Dejounte]

We'll have a hole at the PF spot and Giannis is a PF... just saying...

[Ocotillo]

Regarding 2021 cap space, that is because Derozan and Aldridge are off the books (obviously) but all of a sudden, there is not only a void in salary, there will be a lot of minutes freed up. This season will determine which of the young guns steps in and absorbs those minutes. Add to that, Pop may finally give up the reins and this coming off season will be like no other in recent memory.

[offset formation]

BRING BACK BAYNES

He does most everything Poeltl does and he can shoot from beyond 6 feet.

[Shakril]

The most important parts will be minutes. If Poeltl gets his minutes (at least 25+), than you can give him 10 mil/4 years. It will be in his Prime of the career and for non allstar Centers, he is definitly the best. As a Defensive Anchor he is just tremendous. All stats indicate that Spurs defensive was MUCH MUCH better with him on the court. Also unlike most, i dont think he has reached his cealing. There are parts like three Throw and Foul Trouble, that can be worked on and would improve his value. Also 10 mil is not much down the line. Its just an odd year, but the cap will rise again.

But i fear, that Spurs will keep LMA, if thats the case, he will look to go somewhere else. He played 2 years behind LMA, getting not much playing time, while watching Forbes beeing Forbes with 30+ mins.

[Shakril]

He does most everything Poeltl does and he can shoot from beyond 6 feet.

Can he anchor a defense ? - NO
Is he better as a screener? - NO
Is he a better Rimprotector? - NO

Just 3 things, that prove your statement false.

[EasyMoney]

I doubt there will be a market for Jakob. You can find talent like Grant(albeit for a bit more), Noel, baynes, hermangomez, cauley-stein, biyombo, and mahinmi for half the price and give you enough production to be happy about your decision to not bring Jakob back.

Off the bench. Of course. I'm operating under the assumption that lamarcus will return
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/center/

[Excessive Egotist]

Good intel in the recent front page posts. I appreciated the information about Vassel's secret workout and the hustle for Haliburton. Quality.

The offseason projection seems spot on to me, except for the Poeltl number. I'd pay ~10M for him, give or take, if, for no other reason, than he has trade value. The other thing I disagree with is that the Spurs will be able to land a max free agent with cap room. I'd not bet on it. Cap room is only helpful to Spurs in that it should help lubricate trade talks.

At trade deadline, Poeltl should be able to fetch a first in the late teens or 20s for a playoff team with defensive needs. But to the OP's point, this trade value diminishes per million in salary paid to him this offseason.

There are many ways the Spurs could remain competitive, even get back to the playoffs, this season. Chinook has proposed several trade ideas that make the team competitive. I don't think this should be their focus, however. Their focus should be player development--if they win, great. If not, you accept the losses.

If the Spurs make player development the priority, they should not let players with trade value go without getting something for them. Poeltl has some trade value. Lyles would have deadline value (late first or pair of seconds) if he shoots well the first half of the season. Hell, I'd try to sign and trade Forbes into a TPE for a second round pick.

Unfortunately, the expiring contracts of Aldridge, DeRozan, Mills, and Gay might hold the most value at trade deadline for teams that are in tax prison. The Warriors could be fighting for the 8th seed with a 70M tax bill and lackluster future. Perhaps they'd take on Aldridge and DeRozan for Wiggins and Oubre and pair of firsts to get out of prison. Which means we spend our cap room taking on contracts other people don't want in order to stack draft picks.

Holding onto the vets in hopes of moving them at deadline might be the best path.


In the example above, I don't think the team would be any worse if swapped out Wiggins and Oubre for DeRozan and Aldridge. But it would lose its cap space.

[offset formation]

Can he anchor a defense ? - NO
Is he better as a screener? - NO
Is he a better Rimprotector? - NO

Just 3 things, that prove your statement false.

Actually, no it doesn't. Re-read what I wrote, but with more attention this time.

Most doesn't equal all. Nor does it say as good as.

He does all of those things at a high enough level and can also stretch the floor a bit. He's a very capable screener. He's a very capable shot blocker. And ask Boston and Phoenix how much he meant to their teams. They love him. Especially in Boston.

So do you overpay one at 9M, which is what he's looking for reportedly, or get one for 5M or 6M?

Easy choice, imo.

[KobesAchilles]

How do we sign Gordon Hayward? He's an UFA now. Let's get him. The West has never been weaker

[Atl Spur]

I don't value cap space next year as much as most. With so many other teams having space and being more desirable destinations the price for FA's will be high and franchises will be crippled with overpays on bad contracts. That said, I'd still be hesitant to pay $10M for Jakob. $8M would be fine...the market will be interesting though. A S&T with a team like Boston might make sense if they are willing to send back Williams and a pick.

I too think Boston is up to something; I hope we are in on it....

[Excessive Egotist]

How do we sign Gordon Hayward? He's an UFA now. Let's get him. The West has never been weaker

Our only option is a sign and trade. But who do we have that Boston would want, and would Gordon prefer to play in San Antonio than NYC?

[Excessive Egotist]

Our only option is a sign and trade. But who do we have that Boston would want, and would Gordon prefer to play in San Antonio than NYC?

Also, do we really want Gordon Hayward?

[Russ]

What the San Antonio Spurs Should Plan to Do Heading Into Free Agency?

In the words of Jack Nicholson in "Chinatown" -- "As little as possible."

[bluebellmaniac]

So are the prospects of moving LMA and DMDR now nil? I'd like the opportunity to still get something for LMA and trading DMDR opens up minutes for the younger guys. It'd be a tank year, but that could lead to the prize in next year's draft. Win, win and win on all fronts. I'd suffer for a year to see a definite light at the end of the tunnel result.

[KobesAchilles]

Also, do we really want Gordon Hayward?
Do we want him? Probably not. But I want him here :lol I just think he would fit seemlessly on this team and be the answer to a lot of problems.

[Excessive Egotist]

Do we want him? Probably not. But I want him here :lol I just think he would fit seemlessly on this team and be the answer to a lot of problems.

Hayward is a solid player, and at something like 22M/season he's worth the money. But he'd make us more competitive--but in the sense of finishing 9th rather than 11th in the conference. Maybe we push a 7 seed. The point is that Hayward represents more of the same and doesn't actually get us back to a top seed in the West.

Having said that, if Keldon Johnson emerges as a all star quality wing (big IF, but not implausible), Johnson plus Hayward could be one piece away from a winning team.

I'm not convinced that we have a future All Star in our young guys. So I'm reluctant to make moves that assume we do. But we'll know more soon.

[Truckules]

On Poeltl, Thomas Bryant and Ivica Zubac are good comparisons to make contract-wise as they are all young, starting quality centers on their second contract. They got contracts in the $7-8 million range and that's what I would expect Poeltl to get. An offer sheet more than that means the Spurs might have to choose between LMA and Poeltl. I think the main competition for Poeltl will probably be from the Kings as they're desperately in need of a starting center of Poeltl's caliber with money available.

[JuneJive]

I'd like to know what's the appeal in having cap space next year.

Be a dumping ground in exchange for picks or is it to accomodate a possible free agent?

[Atl Spur]

Jerami grant is better than Heyward

[Mugen]

I have complete faith in PATFO to make the worst decisions during these next several weeks. :tu

[ZeusWillJudge]

I have complete faith in PATFO to make the worst decisions during these next several weeks. :tu


:lol

[MoSpur02]

So according to Chris Haynes, the Rockets and Magic had discussed a trade that would’ve involved Westbrook and Gordon. I would not mind moving Aldridge or Derozan to Orlando in exchange for Gordon.

[lmbebo]

I too think Boston is up to something; I hope we are in on it....

Was thinking that may be a good trade partner, if Ainge is willing to be "fair".

[ZeusWillJudge]

Was thinking that may be a good trade partner, if Ainge is willing to be "fair".


Ainge has been a vicious sonofabitch in free agency negotiations. That's not a complaint - it's exactly what I would like to see representing the Spurs.

I'll go one step further. Ainge would have gotten more value out of Kawhi. He just would have.

[lmbebo]

Ainge has been a vicious sonofabitch in free agency negotiations. That's not a complaint - it's exactly what I would like to see representing the Spurs.

I'll go one step further. Ainge would have gotten more value out of Kawhi. He just would have.

Its the truth

[mo7888]

So according to Chris Haynes, the Rockets and Magic had discussed a trade that would’ve involved Westbrook and Gordon. I would not mind moving Aldridge or Derozan to Orlando in exchange for Gordon.

I would be willing to move DeRozan in a deal with Orlando... I also think Boston is a potential trade partner for us centered around Poeltl... I could see indy as well around Turner if we're moving Aldridge. We probably stand pat (it's our mo) but there are trading partners that make sense out there.

[Dejounte]

So according to Chris Haynes, the Rockets and Magic had discussed a trade that would’ve involved Westbrook and Gordon. I would not mind moving Aldridge or Derozan to Orlando in exchange for Gordon.

Gordon is an empty stat garbage player. No thanks.

[TD 21]

The Pistons are probably out on Poeltl. They burned a lot of their cap space and look like they'll go C by committee with Dedmon, Bradley, Stewart and presumably Wood will be re-signed and can toggle between both big positions.

The Hornets are the obvious suitor. If they go $10M or close, I think the Spurs let him walk and replace him with Plumlee, a similar, half decade older version.

I'd match it or at least look to work out a sign and trade, but it's not their style.

[cjw]

Who is paying more than the MLE for Poeltl?

The teams with space:

- Atlanta: just drafted a big and have Capella. Just moved out Dedmon.

- New York: you never know given their hard on for players that don’t fit together, but they have Randle, Mitchell Robinson and just picked Toppin

- Sacramento: possibly, but have a logjam at PF and could just bring back Len for cheaper. Imagine they’re aiming higher.

- Detroit: just brought in Dedmon and Bradley. Seems like overkill for a center.

- New Orleans: drafted Jaxson Hayes last year.

- Charlotte: we know they wanted Wiseman, but that doesn’t mean they’ll want Poeltl. Have Cody Zeller and their own FA they could bring back. But Zeller could be sunk cost to them and want to move on?

- Miami: no chance with Bam, Olynyk opting in, drafting Precious, etc.

- Toronto: maybe given free agents could leave

[Mugen]

Jakob just doesn't make much sense in keeping if you're bring back Aldridge. I like Jak a lot tbh (though he should really be better than what he is currently) but pretty much agree with OP.

[TimDunkem]

Who is paying more than the MLE for Poeltl?

The teams with space:

- Atlanta: just drafted a big and have Capella. Just moved out Dedmon.

- New York: you never know given their hard on for players that don’t fit together, but they have Randle, Mitchell Robinson and just picked Toppin

- Sacramento: possibly, but have a logjam at PF and could just bring back Len for cheaper. Imagine they’re aiming higher.

- Detroit: just brought in Dedmon and Bradley. Seems like overkill for a center.

- New Orleans: drafted Jaxson Hayes last year.

- Charlotte: we know they wanted Wiseman, but that doesn’t mean they’ll want Poeltl. Have Cody Zeller and their own FA they could bring back. But Zeller could be sunk cost to them and want to move on?

- Miami: no chance with Bam, Olynyk opting in, drafting Precious, etc.

- Toronto: maybe given free agents could leave
Guess grabbing an average center isn't that hard at all.

[KobesAchilles]

So according to Chris Haynes, the Rockets and Magic had discussed a trade that would’ve involved Westbrook and Gordon. I would not mind moving Aldridge or Derozan to Orlando in exchange for Gordon.
Is there anyway we could trade Orlando Demar and Gay for Westbrook? I am as down as almost anybody on Westbrook but he has this thing that nobody else on our team has and it wouldn't be bad for the young guys to learn from him. He is by all accounts a great teammate, works tremendously hard, and an Alpha. I just think Westbrook would fit here. I know that's insane, but it would be interesting to say the least. Westbrook's major problem is he plays stupid and who better to teach him than Pop?

[mo7888]

Who is paying more than the MLE for Poeltl?

The teams with space:

- Atlanta: just drafted a big and have Capella. Just moved out Dedmon.

- New York: you never know given their hard on for players that don’t fit together, but they have Randle, Mitchell Robinson and just picked Toppin

- Sacramento: possibly, but have a logjam at PF and could just bring back Len for cheaper. Imagine they’re aiming higher.

- Detroit: just brought in Dedmon and Bradley. Seems like overkill for a center.

- New Orleans: drafted Jaxson Hayes last year.

- Charlotte: we know they wanted Wiseman, but that doesn’t mean they’ll want Poeltl. Have Cody Zeller and their own FA they could bring back. But Zeller could be sunk cost to them and want to move on?

- Miami: no chance with Bam, Olynyk opting in, drafting Precious, etc.

- Toronto: maybe given free agents could leave

Of that list you could probably work out S&T's with Charlotte and Sacramento... Boston might be interested in a S&T as well.

I like Poeltl at $8M but if its much over that I'd rather S&T if possible.

[Dejounte]

Is there anyway we could trade Orlando Demar and Gay for Westbrook? I am as down as almost anybody on Westbrook but he has this thing that nobody else on our team has and it wouldn't be bad for the young guys to learn from him. He is by all accounts a great teammate, works tremendously hard, and an Alpha. I just think Westbrook would fit here. I know that's insane, but it would be interesting to say the least. Westbrook's major problem is he plays stupid and who better to teach him than Pop?

Westbrook is what he is. He's already 30 something. Too late to change his game.

[Excessive Egotist]

Who is paying more than the MLE for Poeltl?

The teams with space:

- Atlanta: just drafted a big and have Capella. Just moved out Dedmon.

- New York: you never know given their hard on for players that don’t fit together, but they have Randle, Mitchell Robinson and just picked Toppin

- Sacramento: possibly, but have a logjam at PF and could just bring back Len for cheaper. Imagine they’re aiming higher.

- Detroit: just brought in Dedmon and Bradley. Seems like overkill for a center.

- New Orleans: drafted Jaxson Hayes last year.

- Charlotte: we know they wanted Wiseman, but that doesn’t mean they’ll want Poeltl. Have Cody Zeller and their own FA they could bring back. But Zeller could be sunk cost to them and want to move on?

- Miami: no chance with Bam, Olynyk opting in, drafting Precious, etc.

- Toronto: maybe given free agents could leave

Don't forget that Detroit's Christian Wood is the top big man target on market. I'd guess the Pistons will move Dedmon yet again. He is no longer a human, he's now "Dedmon's semi-expiring contract".

[KobesAchilles]

Westbrook is what he is. He's already 30 something. Too late to change his game.
This is very true. And for the most part I don't want him to change. Our youth could use that type of veteran leadership. Going balls to the wall every minute. Going after rebounds. Intensity and the whole idgaf attitude about non-teammates (in that way it is very Duncan like). Demar doesn't bring that and LMA is really just to lax to have that attitude and meaness.

[The Truth #6]

If we don’t trade LMA, we probably can’t keep Jakob, obviously. I’d prefer to keep Jakob, though. We need a center that does exactly what he does and doesn't clamor for touches. We have 1,000,000 guards and so they will have to be the focus of the offense, and they need to develop.

If LMA stays, then regrettably we should roll with Eubanks (Ed Nealy’s secret love child) and focus on keeping Lyles for one more year.

[spurspl]

ddr for bjelica and 2nd rnd

[R. DeMurre]

Who is paying more than the MLE for Poeltl?

The teams with space:

- Sacramento: possibly, but have a logjam at PF and could just bring back Len for cheaper. Imagine they’re aiming higher.



Sacramento is odd, as usual. They didn't secure Harry Giles, so now he's an unrestricted FA, and rumor is they're looking to get younger and are open to trading Bjelica. Giles is a reclamation project after multiple knee surgeries but he's still only 22 and would be inexpensive. I think Bjelica would be a huge bargain-- his contract has one year left on it at $7mil.

[mo7888]

Sacramento is odd, as usual. They didn't secure Harry Giles, so now he's an unrestricted FA, and rumor is they're looking to get younger and are open to trading Bjelica. Giles is a reclamation project after multiple knee surgeries but he's still only 22 and would be inexpensive. I think Bjelica would be a bargain at his salary, which has one year left on it at $7mil.

Not that it pertains to us necessarily but, I think they are open to moving Fox and Bagley as well. They are in a strange position there...

[R. DeMurre]

Not that it pertains to us necessarily but, I think they are open to moving Fox and Bagley as well. They are in a strange position there...

It'd be crazy to not give Fox and Haliburton a chance, but yeah, with Sacramento nothing surprises me.

[rjv]

i'm prepared to see what the spurs can do with LMA and DD back on the roster and the bubble standouts getting a crack and demonstrating themselves. i think that may give them a shot at making the playoffs as an 8th seed, depending on what happens to OKC and houston. worse case scenario, they get another late lottery pick and go into next season with more polished younger players and a ton of cap space (if they let poeltl and forbes go). a good chunk of this season will be impacted by COVID anyway so i have no problem with this outcome. so, i don't see any reason for the spurs to go after any bad contracts in an off-season that lacks any truly impactful FAs.

[RC_Drunkford]

I too think Boston is up to something; I hope we are in on it....

Indiana wants Hayward in a sign and trade and Boston will most likely get Myles Turner in return

[eDizzle20]

I could see Jakob getting overpaid from another team and the Spurs signing Gasol for a year or 2. He would need to come off the bench as him and Aldridge would be a huge defensive liability. Aldridge is gonna have to accept playing center.

[BillMc]

So they have to make a decision on Trey today. Which way does it go?

[EasyMoney]

So they have to make a decision on Trey today. Which way does it go?


I think they bring him back and next week let chimezie walk.

[timvp]

Yes. I am willing to go higher for Poeltl for the following reasons -

1. He is an advanced Stats delight with three very high quality & useful abilities - very good in screen actions and rolling, defending in space and on the perimeter and very good at blocking shots. He is good at finishing, but inconsistent. That is something to continue to work on.
2. He is the only true center in the Spurs squad and among the true centers, and except for the superskilled versatile ones -Embiid, Jokic, Porzingis, etc.. he is the best of the rest of them. Which is why he needs to command more than the average center and below the superskilled versatile ones.
3. He is still relatively young (25) and is by all accounts a good, glue guy who is coachable and plays within the system. If the Spurs can find a way to get more minutes and reverse roles with Aldridge, he can thrive better and even possibly grow more in his role.

That's a well-written defense of Poeltl. I basically agree with everything you wrote. In fact, I wouldn't even put a condition on him being a good finisher. It'd be nice if he dunked it more but his career field goal percentage is all we need to look at to verify the claim that he's a quality finisher.

But, still, he's not an elite center. He'll never become an elite center. He's not the modern type of floor spacing center who has value even when he's away from the action. At most, he's a pretty-good-if-that's-who-you-have starting center who will always be vastly underrated by the general population.

With Aldridge on the team, Poeltl's definitely not worth $10 million. That should be clear. However, even if the Spurs start a rebuild by trading away Aldridge and DeRozan, I just don't believe that Poeltl is worth $10 million in cap flexibility to a rebuilding team. Poeltl is a good part to a good team. On a rebuilding team, he might help keep things respectable ... but is that even a good thing? A) Losing in the short-term isn't a major concern to a rebuilding team. B) Poeltl has a known ceiling, so him getting minutes on a rebuilding team wouldn't unlock excess value. Compare that to someone like Lyles. I'm not a big Lyles fan but, hey, give him 30 MPG on a rebuilding team and it's not out of the realm of possibilities that he actually turns out to be a lot better than previously thought.

At the end of the day, a good comparison is Tiago Splitter. Peak Poeltl and Peak Splitter are just about the same level of player. Back in the summer of 2013, I was all for keeping Splitter at his $10 million price tag. For that team, he was a necessity and it would have been an absolute disaster to lose him. But now? On this team? In this situation? I can't co-sign on Poeltl getting $10 million. He's worth that amount of money to the right team (you could probably justify even $12 or $13 million, actually) but not the Spurs at this point in their life cycle, IMO. Sorry.

[timvp]

I want them to COMMIT to something. If they're going to let Poeltl walk over cap space, then commit to maxing cap space next season. I'm fine with that, but don't turn right around and piss off a bunch of cap space on someone else. Oh, yeah, absolutely. That shouldn't need to be said ... but it does need to be said, given the strange decisions the FO has made in recent years. You don't let Poeltl walk if you follow that up by wasting your cap space. If the Spurs want to, for example, trade Aldridge and DeRozan for bad contracts attached to multiple draft picks, that's an acceptable plan. But in such a scenario where the cap space will disappear, then just go ahead and re-sign Poeltl.

[Larry O]

Jerami grant is better than Heyward

I like Jerami Grant's game! If it were me, I would take him over Heyward. Grant may come cheaper & he has some "dog" in him as well, plus, Grant (26) is younger than Heyward (30). :)

[R. DeMurre]

Just looking at the headlines on Hoopshype & other sites this morning reinforces why some teams are where they are:

Magic interested in Westbrook

Hawks willing to spend on Bogdanovic

Kings regret big contracts to Barnes and Hield

[timvp]

The offseason projection seems spot on to me, except for the Poeltl number. I'd pay ~10M for him, give or take, if, for no other reason, than he has trade value.Yeah, I've thought about that argument that if you sign Poeltl to a market value contract, it's justifiable because you could just trade him if you need the cap space. It makes some sense but it's too risky, IMO. Teams are already souring on traditional centers. If that accelerates, then you're stuck with a player who you have to attach draft picks to in order to salary dump. That's just worth the risk -- especially when the upside to re-signing him is limited in any of the most likely scenarios.


The other thing I disagree with is that the Spurs will be able to land a max free agent with cap room. I'd not bet on it. Cap room is only helpful to Spurs in that it should help lubricate trade talks. IMO, I didn't mention anything about max free agents.

I do have to better explain why cap room is important. That's a longer explanation that I'll probably turn into an article. Thanks.

[phxspurfan]

Agree w OP. This team isnt a contender with Timmy, Parker and Manu and just needs some pieces. Currently its a clusterfuck of PGs and unproven talent, underperforming vets and gaping holes in the front court, with no clear leadership. Best to keep options open and avoid overpaying or long term deals until some player/s emerge among our young guys and we figure out an identity and direction to shoot for past 2021. Poeltl likely wont be a part of that future anyway.

[DPG21920]

We were close - I have been leading the Twitter charge at 8M or less for Poeltl or you let him walk. Same basic reasonings. It’s very surprising how much push back I’ve been getting on that...People really A) like Poeltl and/or B) don’t see what has happened to Centers values. Im surprised at how many people think he may land a 12M+ offer? I don’t think that’s coming but it’s possible.

What I will be very upset at is if they give out any deals in FA using MLE or whatever that exceed 1 year. If you aren’t going to trade DDR/LMA for picks to help your future, the BARE MINIMUM is to protect cap space as you said. I don’t care if some decent vet will help you push for the playoffs; if you aren’t willing to extend LMA and/or DDR then you ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT HAND OUT MORE THAN ONE YEAR DEALS for marginal low ceiling upgrades that are not part of a future.

Beyond that agree:

No Bryn
No Beli
No Metu
No Zeller

Ok with Lyles, but also good if he’s gone and Luka gets all his minutes, but my guess is Lyles is back.

Under no circumstances while LMA/DDR are on the team do you bring back Jakob for anything more than 8M. I’m fine letting him walk for anything that is not 1 year long honestly even though I like him.

Spurs NEED TO TRADE. At a minimum this roster is clunky and messy and Mills should have + value. Spurs have the guards to give him up and get something back. If DDR/LMA are here you can still trade Mills fix the roster.

My HOPE is they trade LMA and DDR for future assets (even if it’s just younger gambles and not picks). If they wait until the deadline they will have no value at all.

But dont mess up your cap space if you aren’t willing to do the above under any circumstances.

[duncan2k5]

If we don't trade DDR and LMA, this is pointless

[mo7888]

We were close - I have been leading the Twitter charge at 8M or less for Poeltl or you let him walk. Same basic reasonings. It’s very surprising how much push back I’ve been getting on that...People really A) like Poeltl and/or B) don’t see what has happened to Centers values. Im surprised at how many people think he may land a 12M+ offer? I don’t think that’s coming but it’s possible.

What I will be very upset at is if they give out any deals in FA using MLE or whatever that exceed 1 year. If you aren’t going to trade DDR/LMA for picks to help your future, the BARE MINIMUM is to protect cap space as you said. I don’t care if some decent vet will help you push for the playoffs; if you aren’t willing to extend LMA and/or DDR then you ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT HAND OUT MORE THAN ONE YEAR DEALS for marginal low ceiling upgrades that are not part of a future.

Beyond that agree:

No Bryn
No Beli
No Metu
No Zeller

Ok with Lyles, but also good if he’s gone and Luka gets all his minutes, but my guess is Lyles is back.

Under no circumstances while LMA/DDR are on the team do you bring back Jakob for anything more than 8M. I’m fine letting him walk for anything that is not 1 year long honestly even though I like him.

Spurs NEED TO TRADE. At a minimum this roster is clunky and messy and Mills should have + value. Spurs have the guards to give him up and get something back. If DDR/LMA are here you can still trade Mills fix the roster.

My HOPE is they trade LMA and DDR for future assets (even if it’s just younger gambles and not picks). If they wait until the deadline they will have no value at all.

But dont mess up your cap space if you aren’t willing to do the above under any circumstances.

I'm with most of that but, it just doesn't make sense to me to play 'sorta' win now with DDR and LMA this year and hurt our draft pick position. I'd trade them like you said but, if we aren't doing that I could see this FO trading for either 1) a Vet that expires next summer or 2) a Vet they think they can trade for positive value next summer. I imagine with so many teams striking out of the premier FA's next summer a team holding the 'bag' and forced between overpaying for a mediocre FA or trading for a player on a decent contraft would choose the latter.

[DPG21920]

I'm with most of that but, it just doesn't make sense to me to play 'sorta' win now with DDR and LMA this year and hurt our draft pick position. I'd trade them like you said but, if we aren't doing that I could see this FO trading for either 1) a Vet that expires next summer or 2) a Vet they think they can trade for positive value next summer. I imagine with so many teams striking out of the premier FA's next summer a team holding the 'bag' and forced between overpaying for a mediocre FA or trading for a player on a decent contraft would choose the latter.

I’m fine getting a vet to help this season, but only if it’s a 1 year deal. If they aren’t trading DDR/LMA I want them to try and improve for this year - just not at the expense of eating cap space or having more dead salary like they seem to think is some great strategy.

I’m way less inclined to the logic of signing someone with hopes of trading them; sa sucks at trading and truly seems incapable of pulling off trades. They are a major outlier when it comes to the rest of the league with regards to trade frequency.

[BackHome]

I was hoping Poodle would show something during the bubble but he was terrible he kinda got scared and definitely did not help his free agency status. As the NBA is going to small ball and as we are not close to a top 5 seed I would not sign him for anything over 8 mill.

[DPG21920]

timvp - here’s a perfect example of something that should be done. Thoughts:

Mills to Bucks for Robin Lopez + 2nd rounder. They could sign and trade Robin Lopez 3 years/39M (13M per) with only the first year guaranteed. It matched Mills salary, SA can let Poeltl walk and preserve cap space and have their one year replacement for Poeltl as well. Then waive Robin next season.

Robin agrees because he was making 5M so he gets a big one year deal and he gets right back into FA next year with more money.

Boom. Done.

[SpurPadre]

He does most everything Poeltl does and he can shoot from beyond 6 feet.

Baynes is also 9 years older. We can't have two aging bigs on the floor.

[mo7888]

I’m fine getting a vet to help this season, but only if it’s a 1 year deal. If they aren’t trading DDR/LMA I want them to try and improve for this year - just not at the expense of eating cap space or having more dead salary like they seem to think is some great strategy.

I’m way less inclined to the logic of signing someone with hopes of trading them; sa sucks at trading and truly seems incapable of pulling off trades. They are a major outlier when it comes to the rest of the league with regards to trade frequency.

Yes, we've sucked at getting trades done...we are an outlier but, I can't look at it from the standpoint of 'I'm not going to do something because the FO sucks at turning it into value'. If I have to consider moves based on a weak FO and assume they can't possibly improve then all we can do is let contracts expire and draft....because we aren't good at trades...we aren't good at signing FA's.... we draft well and that's it... so if we are only going play to our strengths well.... I just can't think that way myself...

[Degoat]

I won’t be pissed if we resign Jakob but man hes soft... they should give him an incentive bonus if he dunks the ball over a certain amount of times during the season lol

[TheCerebral1]

Let all of our free agents go. None of them outside of maybe Poetl has a life on this team for long. We already replaced Forbes, so that's good.

[r0drig0lac]

Jakob best non elite center in the league? lol, the maximum i would pay him for his contract to be fair or positive would be 24/4

[DPG21920]

Yes, we've sucked at getting trades done...we are an outlier but, I can't look at it from the standpoint of 'I'm not going to do something because the FO sucks at turning it into value'. If I have to consider moves based on a weak FO and assume they can't possibly improve then all we can do is let contracts expire and draft....because we aren't good at trades...we aren't good at signing FA's.... we draft well and that's it... so if we are only going play to our strengths well.... I just can't think that way myself...

Sure, but if we are being honest. Cap Space for trade purposes > Poeltl for trade purposes. So no matter how you slice it...

[Seventyniner]

timvp (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8) - here’s a perfect example of something that should be done. Thoughts:

Mills to Bucks for Robin Lopez + 2nd rounder. They could sign and trade Robin Lopez 3 years/39M (13M per) with only the first year guaranteed. It matched Mills salary, SA can let Poeltl walk and preserve cap space and have their one year replacement for Poeltl as well. Then waive Robin next season.

Robin agrees because he was making 5M so he gets a big one year deal and he gets right back into FA next year with more money.

Boom. Done.

I don't think a 3-year contract can have 2 unguaranteed years like that. Though I defer to anyone with more knowledge.

[DPG21920]

I don't think a 3-year contract can have 2 unguaranteed years like that. Though I defer to anyone with more knowledge.

I’m insulted as to be insinuated I am not the person with that knowledge lmao

S&T contracts have to be at least 3 years, no longer than 4 but only need one year fully guaranteed.

[mo7888]

Sure, but if we are being honest. Cap Space for trade purposes > Poeltl for trade purposes. So no matter how you slice it...

I dont think that's the case next year because so many teams will have cap space it devalues it... 2 years from now I think cap space will be more valuable. Next summer I think players on reasonable contracts to trade to teams who struck out in FA is more valuable.

[Prime BEEF]

If we don't trade DDR and LMA, this is pointless
Yup

[Seventyniner]

I’m insulted as to be insinuated I am not the person with that knowledge lmao

S&T contracts have to be at least 3 years, no longer than 4 but only need one year fully guaranteed.

Perhaps I put too much weight on my unreliable memory then. I really thought there could only be one non-guaranteed year on a contract now and was leaving myself an out.

[exstatic]

Do we know yet if the trade deadline remains the same? (Feb)

I’m guessing that because the season is offset by a month, that everything else will be, too. Deadline will probably be in March.

[Excessive Egotist]

Yeah, I've thought about that argument that if you sign Poeltl to a market value contract, it's justifiable because you could just trade him if you need the cap space. It makes some sense but it's too risky, IMO. Teams are already souring on traditional centers. If that accelerates, then you're stuck with a player who you have to attach draft picks to in order to salary dump. That's just worth the risk -- especially when the upside to re-signing him is limited in any of the most likely scenarios.

IMO, I didn't mention anything about max free agents.

I do have to better explain why cap room is important. That's a longer explanation that I'll probably turn into an article. Thanks.

You're correct. I read "max" into your post. I'm here for a plan of what the Spurs would do with 40M in cap space. I'll watch for the article.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. That shouldn't need to be said ... but it does need to be said, given the strange decisions the FO has made in recent years. You don't let Poeltl walk if you follow that up by wasting your cap space. If the Spurs want to, for example, trade Aldridge and DeRozan for bad contracts attached to multiple draft picks, that's an acceptable plan. But in such a scenario where the cap space will disappear, then just go ahead and re-sign Poeltl.


Better than the way I said it... of course. :tu

[timvp]

We were close - I have been leading the Twitter charge at 8M or less for Poeltl or you let him walk. Same basic reasonings. It’s very surprising how much push back I’ve been getting on that...People really A) like Poeltl and/or B) don’t see what has happened to Centers values. Im surprised at how many people think he may land a 12M+ offer? I don’t think that’s coming but it’s possible.

What I will be very upset at is if they give out any deals in FA using MLE or whatever that exceed 1 year. If you aren’t going to trade DDR/LMA for picks to help your future, the BARE MINIMUM is to protect cap space as you said. I don’t care if some decent vet will help you push for the playoffs; if you aren’t willing to extend LMA and/or DDR then you ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT HAND OUT MORE THAN ONE YEAR DEALS for marginal low ceiling upgrades that are not part of a future.

Beyond that agree:

No Bryn
No Beli
No Metu
No Zeller

Ok with Lyles, but also good if he’s gone and Luka gets all his minutes, but my guess is Lyles is back.

Under no circumstances while LMA/DDR are on the team do you bring back Jakob for anything more than 8M. I’m fine letting him walk for anything that is not 1 year long honestly even though I like him.

https://i.imgur.com/KNsggcu.png

My max is $7 million but if he gets like a 3-year, $20 million offer and the Spurs don't match, I won't be upset. Most Spurs fans would be hysterical but, meh, I'd be okay with that. (Assuming, of course, they stick to the masterplan of valuing salary cap space in 2021.)


Spurs NEED TO TRADE. At a minimum this roster is clunky and messy and Mills should have + value. Spurs have the guards to give him up and get something back. If DDR/LMA are here you can still trade Mills fix the roster. This is where you lose me a little bit. The Spurs don't need to trade if they are focused on the salary cap. Rearranging the deck chairs for the sake of getting a "better fitting roster" or whatever is not high on my list of priorities. It's not even on the list, tbh.

If you can get a first for Mills, you trade him. Do you trade him to get the elusive "better fitting roster" or do you milk that supposed veteran leadership for one more year? Personally, I don't care either way. The only way I care is if there's a real asset attached to Mills in a trade.


My HOPE is they trade LMA and DDR for future assets (even if it’s just younger gambles and not picks). If they wait until the deadline they will have no value at all.I'll go along with this as long as that asset is pick, a damn interesting young player who is worth eating cap space or someone on a one-year deal.


But dont mess up your cap space if you aren’t willing to do the above under any circumstances.*handshake reengaged*

[timvp]

timvp - here’s a perfect example of something that should be done. Thoughts:

Mills to Bucks for Robin Lopez + 2nd rounder. They could sign and trade Robin Lopez 3 years/39M (13M per) with only the first year guaranteed. It matched Mills salary, SA can let Poeltl walk and preserve cap space and have their one year replacement for Poeltl as well. Then waive Robin next season.

Robin agrees because he was making 5M so he gets a big one year deal and he gets right back into FA next year with more money.

Boom. Done.

Meh. I wouldn't be upset with that deal but it doesn't excite me. I want more than the 59th or 60th pick for Mills. I also don't care about "replacing" Poeltl. If he leaves, Lyles, Eubanks, Jackie Butler or whoever off the street can fill the role, I don't care.

[TD 21]

My max is $7 million but if he gets like a 3-year, $20 million offer and the Spurs don't match, I won't be upset. Most Spurs fans would be hysterical but, meh, I'd be okay with that. (Assuming, of course, they stick to the masterplan of valuing salary cap space in 2021.)


Also, unless you're going to utilize it as a dumping ground for dead money to extract draft capital, it's overrated. As long as you have an easy path to creating it if need be, that's all that matters.

Asset retention (at 3/$20M) is far more important. At some point, this organization needs to show a backbone and stop allowing the league to poach their RFA's so easily while embarrassing them in trades.

[offset formation]

Baynes is also 9 years older. We can't have two aging bigs on the floor.

Year by year. Lots of bigs In next years draft.

[Excessive Egotist]

Yeah, I've thought about that argument that if you sign Poeltl to a market value contract, it's justifiable because you could just trade him if you need the cap space. It makes some sense but it's too risky, IMO. Teams are already souring on traditional centers. If that accelerates, then you're stuck with a player who you have to attach draft picks to in order to salary dump. That's just worth the risk -- especially when the upside to re-signing him is limited in any of the most likely scenarios.

IMO, I didn't mention anything about max free agents.

I do have to better explain why cap room is important. That's a longer explanation that I'll probably turn into an article. Thanks.

I should say, I'm in general agreement with your post, as I tried to indicate. I would rather Drew Eubanks at 4M than Poeltl at 12M. Even Drew at 3 and Poeltl at 10 is a question mark. Maybe Eubanks.

I'm also hopeful Spurs do nothing this offseason, other than dip into their MLE or use the bi-annual. Splitting the MLE on two of Langston Galloway, Bruno Caboclo, or Josh Jackson would make me happy. Very easy to please on a 14th or 15th man who might be developable.

[EasyMoney]

https://twitter.com/spurs/status/1329921297099468800?s=19

Starting off free agency on the right foot

[pad300]

Ainge has been a vicious sonofabitch in free agency negotiations. That's not a complaint - it's exactly what I would like to see representing the Spurs.

I'll go one step further. Ainge would have gotten more value out of Kawhi. He just would have.

Which is why I'm not quite sure I agree with ATL Spur abouting wanting a piece of what he's planning. I can see our FO getting bent over a table...

[Atl Spur]

Which is why I'm not quite sure I agree with ATL Spur abouting wanting a piece of what he's planning. I can see our FO getting bent over a table...

CIA Pop will make him cry.....

[DPG21920]

Meh. I wouldn't be upset with that deal but it doesn't excite me. I want more than the 59th or 60th pick for Mills. I also don't care about "replacing" Poeltl. If he leaves, Lyles, Eubanks, Jackie Butler or whoever off the street can fill the role, I don't care.

It’s not just 59/60. It’s the guarantee not bringing Jakob back + that imo

[timvp]

It’s not just 59/60. It’s the guarantee not bringing Jakob back + that imo

I mean, not bringing back Jakob isn't exactly difficult. You just don't match the offersheet.

Boom.

Done.

[DPG21920]

I mean, not bringing back Jakob isn't exactly difficult. You just don't match the offersheet.

Boom.

Done.

I’d rather have 59/60 + guaranteed not bringing him back than no pick. Especially if “goal “ is being 1 year competitive

If we are operating under premise competing this year is a thing? You get some value vs “leadership”. 2nd rounder > leadership imo

[DPG21920]

At a minimum isn’t that doing right by Mills? Go to a contender and possibly get minutes vs cheerleading for a team like Sa?

[pad300]

I’d rather have 59/60 + guaranteed not bringing him back than no pick. Especially if “goal “ is being 1 year competitive

If we are operating under premise competing this year is a thing? You get some value vs “leadership”. 2nd rounder > leadership imo

Looking at what SAS has done for the last 20 years, PATFO disagrees; in their opinion, "leadership + culture" > late second round pick.

[DPG21920]

Well yeah they’ve been a** :lol

[timvp]

At a minimum isn’t that doing right by Mills? Go to a contender and possibly get minutes vs cheerleading for a team like Sa?

Don't care what Mills wants. Need more than pick 59 or 60.

[Chinook]

Perhaps I put too much weight on my unreliable memory then. I really thought there could only be one non-guaranteed year on a contract now and was leaving myself an out.

Can only have one option year under the current CBA. You can sign a player to a five-year full non-guaranteed deal so long as you have Bird rights.

[DPG21920]

Don't care what Mills wants. Need more than pick 59 or 60.

Robin + DaVinci Code?

[R. DeMurre]

Meh. I wouldn't be upset with that deal but it doesn't excite me. I want more than the 59th or 60th pick for Mills. I also don't care about "replacing" Poeltl. If he leaves, Lyles, Eubanks, Jackie Butler or whoever off the street can fill the role, I don't care.

:lolButler's only 35-- he might have one more run in him.


Off the top of your head, who are a half dozen bargain basement bigs you'd consider?

[Chinook]

Robin + DaVinci Code?

Obviously not for Mills. Maybe for DeRozan.

[Mr. Body]

Meh. I wouldn't be upset with that deal but it doesn't excite me. I want more than the 59th or 60th pick for Mills. I also don't care about "replacing" Poeltl. If he leaves, Lyles, Eubanks, Jackie Butler or whoever off the street can fill the role, I don't care.

Yikes.

[timvp]

Off the top of your head, who are a half dozen bargain basement bigs you'd consider?

Haven't really thought about it because I'm not even sure it'd be worthwhile to sign a replacement but even someone like John Henson would probably be okay enough. Harry Giles is talented enough to be an interesting target too.

[R. DeMurre]

Haven't really thought about it because I'm not even sure it'd be worthwhile to sign a replacement but even someone like John Henson would probably be okay enough. Harry Giles is talented enough to be an interesting target too.

I like Harry Giles as a gamble too, even though it's based entirely on catching him at just the right time post injuries and third year in. His advanced stats so far are a horror:lol, but I think it's a worthwhile risk for a 22 year old that was once the best high school player in the country.

[JuneJive]

Giles would be nice.

Health is his main issue.

[duncan2150]

i'm with timvp about Poetl.

If he have something like 10 millions/year i will probably let him walk away, he showed too much flaws in today's nba : no post game, not very good at finishing, bad at the FT line, not very good for switching on the perimeter ....

Depends on the price.

[Shakril]

i'm with timvp about Poetl.

If he have something like 10 millions/year i will probably let him walk away, he showed too much flaws in today's nba : no post game, not very good at finishing, bad at the FT line, not very good for switching on the perimeter ....

Depends on the price.

Your Statement is so wrong on so many levels:

- He has a Post game, just uses it not enough, what actually is a problem. Lack of Confidence, or the order to pass first than score, i am not sure. But when you watched him in College or Toronto you have seen that he has a postgame.
- He is a good finisher around the rim (just look at his efficency). Dont dwell to much on some bad misses, everybody has them even LeBron. Overall he finishes very well.
- FT Line, yes that is a problem, but also one that can be fixed
- Defending the Perimeter as a Center is actually one of his Strongpoints. He is mobile enough to not get Guards to pass him to easy. He made many Blocks defending Guards. A reason, why with him the overall Defense of the Team goes way up.

[duncan2150]

Your Statement is so wrong on so many levels:

- He has a Post game, just uses it not enough, what actually is a problem. Lack of Confidence, or the order to pass first than score, i am not sure. But when you watched him in College or Toronto you have seen that he has a postgame.
- He is a good finisher around the rim (just look at his efficency). Dont dwell to much on some bad misses, everybody has them even LeBron. Overall he finishes very well.
- FT Line, yes that is a problem, but also one that can be fixed
- Defending the Perimeter as a Center is actually one of his Strongpoints. He is mobile enough to not get Guards to pass him to easy. He made many Blocks defending Guards. A reason, why with him the overall Defense of the Team goes way up.


1 We don't have the same definition of post moves, can you tell me one post move he can do regularly ?

2 He is not a strong finisher for me , he lacks some agressiveness that's what i mean but i'm ok he is not that bad

3 at least we agree about the FT and that's an important part of the game

What i mean is not that he is bad, he have some qualities also but i will not give him too much because of the flaws. I could be wrong.

[Shakril]

1 We don't have the same definition of post moves, can you tell me one post move he can do regularly ?

2 He is not a strong finisher for me , he lacks some agressiveness that's what i mean but i'm ok he is not that bad

3 at least we agree about the FT and that's an important part of the game

What i mean is not that he is bad, he have some qualities also but i will not give him too much because of the flaws. I could be wrong.

1 - Back to the basket, pusing down defenders to get a good look. AS i said in College and Toronto he did that. Something changed in SA why he does his moves rarely. Dont get me wrong, i am not saying he is a beast in the post. I am just refuting your claim, that he has no moves.

2 - Aggressiveness has nothing to do with finishing. Finishing means putting the ball in the basket up close. Which he does. I dont remember TD to be an aggressiv finisher, he was rather smooth. In my book what is important, how much of his chances he converts into baskets. Poeltl has a high efficency in that regard. At least thats my take on what finishing is.

3 - Yep. Something that can be fixed. 70% would be enough. Nobody demands him to be a 90% FT shooter.

[ducks]

Spurs should have invited Trump to speak to the players
Make pop quite!

[TimDunkem]

Spurs should have invited Trump to speak to the players
Make pop quite!
You pee on little girls.

[Spursfanfromafar]

That's a well-written defense of Poeltl. I basically agree with everything you wrote. In fact, I wouldn't even put a condition on him being a good finisher. It'd be nice if he dunked it more but his career field goal percentage is all we need to look at to verify the claim that he's a quality finisher.

But, still, he's not an elite center. He'll never become an elite center. He's not the modern type of floor spacing center who has value even when he's away from the action. At most, he's a pretty-good-if-that's-who-you-have starting center who will always be vastly underrated by the general population.

With Aldridge on the team, Poeltl's definitely not worth $10 million. That should be clear. However, even if the Spurs start a rebuild by trading away Aldridge and DeRozan, I just don't believe that Poeltl is worth $10 million in cap flexibility to a rebuilding team. Poeltl is a good part to a good team. On a rebuilding team, he might help keep things respectable ... but is that even a good thing? A) Losing in the short-term isn't a major concern to a rebuilding team. B) Poeltl has a known ceiling, so him getting minutes on a rebuilding team wouldn't unlock excess value. Compare that to someone like Lyles. I'm not a big Lyles fan but, hey, give him 30 MPG on a rebuilding team and it's not out of the realm of possibilities that he actually turns out to be a lot better than previously thought.

At the end of the day, a good comparison is Tiago Splitter. Peak Poeltl and Peak Splitter are just about the same level of player. Back in the summer of 2013, I was all for keeping Splitter at his $10 million price tag. For that team, he was a necessity and it would have been an absolute disaster to lose him. But now? On this team? In this situation? I can't co-sign on Poeltl getting $10 million. He's worth that amount of money to the right team (you could probably justify even $12 or $13 million, actually) but not the Spurs at this point in their life cycle, IMO. Sorry.


Thanks for your explanation. I get your point which focuses more on what lies in the future in terms of cap space. That is something that I am not really clued in about, but from what similar centers are being paid in the current free agency (Mason Plumlee - 3 years 25 million, Derrick Favors - 3 years 30 million..).. I am guessing Poeltl will be valued in that range as well.

Lastly, while I get your point about rebuilding and unlocking value going forward, I just disagree with you that letting him go for free will pay the Spurs better than slightly overpaying him by $4-5 million relative to current market value. The reason why I say so, is that for our guards and small wings to be effective (and that is the thrust of our rebuilding core), they need adequate shot blocking and screening actions by a competent center to unlock their own utility and actions. And that is where I find more value in Poeltl during rebuilding than looking elsewhere in the short-term.

[Seventyniner]

Can only have one option year under the current CBA. You can sign a player to a five-year full non-guaranteed deal so long as you have Bird rights.

So I was mixing up player options with non-guaranteed years. Got it.

My bad DPG21920 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=13014). Your trade idea works.

[Crazymaddopeyo]

Spurs should have invited Trump to speak to the players
Make pop quite!
Yeah, then they could just claim that they won the NBA championship by a huge margin.

[illusioNtEk]

Spurs should have invited Trump to speak to the players
Make pop quite!

With Becky Hammon around, Trump might wanna reach for that pussy and grab it

[BillMc]

What happened with Trey?

[timvp]

What happened with Trey?

He stay.

[BillMc]

He stay.

Thanks man. :bobo Not surprising really.