More Thoughts About the Spurs Re-signing Jakob Poeltl and Drew Eubanks

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/san-antonio-spurs-thoughts-jakob-poeltl-drew-eubanks/

Also touch on the importance of salary cap space, what else the Spurs could do this summer, the likelihood of a trade, etc.

[Dejounte]

So you believe the difference between having $40 mil and $50 is huge in terms of cap flexibility. How hard is it to shed that salary by trading Mills or Gay for nothing?

To me, it is only critical to have that extra ten million is if you have TWO incoming big salary players. I think a trade like that is usually unheard of. Trades are usually centered on one really good player with a big salary and filler...

[Mr. Body]

What many people are missing about Poeltl are the costs of replacing him. And, no, Eubanks isn't replacing and certainly not Lyles. Poeltl is a longer term fixture than LMA and even if Aldridge plays the entire season at San Antonio -- which I don't think he will -- then next year and going forward Poeltl takes the spot and minutes semi-permanently. The front office and Poeltl seem to understand this. Nobody else here does.

In the end, again, the question is what it would cose to get a Poeltl-like player after letting Poeltl go. Plus one who doesn't mind playing in San Antonio, one of the least attractive destinations in the NBA. And the answer is ---> much more than Poeltl costs now. And with questions marks about mental fit.

[timvp]

Why would Weatherperson take another two way contract when he was offered a qualifying offer for what was probably a minimum contract on the 18th?



He got a two-way qualifying offer. If he accepts it, it's a two-way contract.

[timvp]

So you believe the difference between having $40 mil and $50 is huge in terms of cap flexibility.The more cap space the better.


To me, it is only critical to have that extra ten million is if you have TWO incoming big salary players.Yeah, that's part of it. With players these days fond of going the superteam route, having an extra $10 million could make a big difference.

[Mr. Body]

San Antonio is never, ever going to be a superteam destination. Hell, even getting LMA to come, when we had Duncan and a full cupboard, was like pulling teeth.

[Dejounte]

The more cap space the better.

Yeah, that's part of it. With players these days fond of going the superteam route, having an extra $10 million could make a big difference.

So something like Kawhi telling Paul George to join him in LA is something we want to be ready for. That's pie in the sky, man. It's already difficult for one star to be enamored with SA and want to come here, and you think there could be two?

[timvp]

How hard is it to shed that salary by trading Mills or Gay for nothing?

Mills and Gay are expiring. The only big money contracts on the books will likely be Murray, Poeltl and White if he signs an extension.





Well, then again, the Spurs could extend Aldridge, DeRozan and/or Mills and dip into that cap space even more ............

[timvp]

So something like Kawhi telling Paul George to join him in LA is something we want to be ready for. That's pie in the sky, man. It's already difficult for one star to be enamored with SA and want to come here, and you think there could be two?

I mean, all it took for the Jazz was Carlos Boozer and Mehmet Okur to agree to link up in SLC to build a team that went to a WCF. Wouldn't exactly label that as a superteam or beyond the scope of what the Spurs could do.

[Dejounte]

Mills and Gay are expiring. The only big money contracts on the books will likely be Murray, Poeltl and White if he signs an extension.





Well, then again, the Spurs could extend Aldridge, DeRozan and/or Mills and dip into that cap space even more ............

I see. Well, see ya Dejounte! We gon trade you for picks.

[mo7888]

The more cap space the better.

Yeah, that's part of it. With players these days fond of going the superteam route, having an extra $10 million could make a big difference.

Its hard for me to see how cap space is so valuable next summer. So many teams have it that most teams won't need to offer picks to shed contracts and we usually don't get star type FA's. Also, with so many teams having so much space that's a recipe to franchises to cripple themselves by overpaying for the mediocre FA's.

[Mr. Body]

Its hard for me to see how cap space is so valuable next summer. So many teams have it that most teams won't need to offer picks to shed contracts and we usually don't get star type FA's. Also, with so many teams having so much space that's a recipe to franchises to cripple themselves by overpaying for the mediocre FA's.

You're correct. Too many fans fall in love with cap space and I doubt the FO has illusions they'll entice the top free agents. As mentioned, even getting LMA over a shitty team at the time in Phoenix was incredibly hard. What's more important is marshalling the cap to ensure they can pay the young players as they develop. See what mid-tiers are available, then press ahead.

[Dejounte]

I understand that but BRYN fucking Forbes got the Minimum 1 year Offer after a year in the G leuge, and your telling me you think they are fucking Spoon. WTF. I'm besides myself with the Idea they would do that to Spoon an poop gave Byrn the Minimum in 2017....

Lol yeah, they are fucking Spoon so bad. I hope he isn't reading this thread. He's decent and I want to keep him.

[timvp]

Spurs fans: The Spurs aren't good and need to try to get better. What are they even doing? Do they know they're allowed to trade.

timvp: Here are various paths they could take to try to get better.

Spurs fans: Heh, that won't work. Why bother.

[timvp]

What's more important is marshalling the cap to ensure they can pay the young players as they develop.You don't need to marshal anything to do that. Bird rights will handle that task.


See what mid-tiers are available, then press ahead.Current youth plus mid-tiers will result in what sort of outcome in your mind? Genuinely interested.

[Mr. Body]

Current youth plus mid-tiers will result in what sort of outcome in your mind? Genuinely interested.

Competitiveness? Do you think we're going to sign Giannis? Are you fucking serious? If the FO has your insane optimism, then we're completely dead in the water. Fortunately they are far more pragmatic than you are.

[Dejounte]

Spurs fans: The Spurs aren't good and need to try to get better. What are they even doing? Do they know they're allowed to trade.

timvp: Here are various paths they could take to try to get better.

Spurs fans: Heh, that won't work. Why bother.

In the event we are unable to use the $40 mil or $50 mil-- is there a contingency? I imagine there are risks involved with having too much cap space. Just trying to wrap my head around this. Like say, they fail to sign or trade for those players, do they then have to meet a certain cap floor and sign away random, mediocre players to bloated contracts? If my memory serves me right, several teams have done this in the past... Or maybe that was for other reasons.

[Spursfanfromafar]

https://www.spurstalk.com/san-antonio-spurs-thoughts-jakob-poeltl-drew-eubanks/

Also touch on the importance of salary cap space, what else the Spurs could do this summer, the likelihood of a trade, etc.

Thanks for this detailed and well argued article. Puts the Spurs position in a good perspective. The Spurs are indeed suffering due to the mis-steps of the last couple of seasons (the nephew situation, the Carroll signing - Morris welching - Bertans leaving) and have been reduced to a situation with little wiggle room. That said, I do believe they have to take decisions for basketball reasons as well - developing their youth core which is largely a set of guards requires the ideal big man complement for them and I believe Poeltl is that important piece to add to that mix. With the cap space reducing from $50 million to $40 million being indeed a slight problem as you put it, I think I will focus on the "slight" bit as it allows for better development of the youth core in the next year.

I will not hold my breath for a trade in the offseason of one or a set of the veteran corps as your piece rightly says that is going to be difficult, but I hope this doesn't deter Pop from playing Poeltl/ Eubanks more and Aldridge less or benching Patty to a more limited role in this season till a trade opportunity opens up. One trade option could probably be with the Brooklyn Nets (come on, Sean Marks, do us a favour!) and the OKC Thunder - Aldridge/Gay to Nets for Taurean Prince and filler with Prince moved to OKC and filler to the Spurs and a draft pick from the Thunder (who gets a decent player in Prince).

[timvp]

Competitiveness? Do you think we're going to sign Giannis? Are you fucking serious? If the FO has your insane optimism, then we're completely dead in the water. Fortunately they are far more pragmatic than you are.

Pretty hostile for a genuine question.

"Insane optimism" is an interesting choice of words. All I'm asking of the Spurs is to mind their salary cap space the same way they've been dedicated to doing just that for 20+ seasons. You think a team that could do the impossible of opening salary cap space during the middle of a dynasty could avoid simple errors like having dead money from Carroll getting in the way of salary cap space in their post-dynasty world.

[PhantomDashCam]

Mills and Gay are expiring. The only big money contracts on the books will likely be Murray, Poeltl and White if he signs an extension.

Well, then again, the Spurs could extend Aldridge, DeRozan and/or Mills and dip into that cap space even more ............

My biggest concern and one I brought up in another thread Re: Millsap resigning in Denver.
I never will root for the Spurs to lose or fail. But man if moderate success leads to that as a potential outcome?
Getting out the Ouija board as we speak...

[Dejounte]

My biggest concern and one I brought up in another thread Re: Millsap resigning in Denver.
I never will root for the Spurs to lose or fail. But man if moderate success leads to that as a potential outcome?
Getting out the Ouija board as we speak...

If moderate success was led by the usual suspects, DeMar and LMA, then I agree with you.

If that moderate success is led by the young guns, White and Keldon and whoever, then I say go for it and extend them at a reasonable price and be prepared to give Keldon a max. I'm talking as if he's averaging 25+ ppg next season. At that point, we basically found a star.

[GAustex]

It would be great and incredibly unexpected if Keldon averages 25 or close to it next season.
It would be cool if he did though

[Dejounte]

It would be great and incredibly unexpected if Keldon averages 25 or close to it next season.
It would be cool if he did though

He was already scoring in the 20's while not being featured in the offense, barely any plays run for him towards the end of last season. With ease.

[timvp]

In the event we are unable to use the $40 mil or $50 mil-- is there a contingency? I imagine there are risks involved with having too much cap space. Just trying to wrap my head around this. Like say, they fail to sign or trade for those players, do they then have to meet a certain cap floor and sign away random, mediocre players to bloated contracts? If my memory serves me right, several teams have done this in the past... Or maybe that was for other reasons.

No built-in downsides. Worst comes to worst, you sign a couple big, one-year contracts to reach the floor. In San Antonio's situation, they probably could only string it along for a couple seasons before the bill on the rest of the youth comes due.

[Atl Spur]

I hope Vassell ends up a dawg!!!! Samanic may show us something also��������

[R. DeMurre]

OKC has acquired Draft picks as far ahead as 2025 and 2026! Hell, I'd be fine with moving DeRozan to a competitive team come trade deadline time for a decent package of a role player, an expiring, and a first round pick five years from now.

[GAustex]

That would be great. I am not as confident. I doubt anyone was game planning Keldon. It’s different when the opponent is planning for you. We will see.
I hope you are right.

[Atl Spur]

Starters should be on point; our bench killed us last year. I think it will be strength this year.

[timvp]

Its hard for me to see how cap space is so valuable next summer. So many teams have it that most teams won't need to offer picks to shed contracts and we usually don't get star type FA's. Also, with so many teams having so much space that's a recipe to franchises to cripple themselves by overpaying for the mediocre FA's.

The value on 2021 cap space is actually on the rise. A) COVID-19 flatlined the cap, so many teams who thought they were going to have room won't actually have much room. B) Multiple teams are unexpectedly blowing their space this summer. C) More teams are going into the lux tax than most predicted, which could result in quite a few teams looking to scale back next summer as contracts continue to rise while the threshold stays flat.

The Spurs obviously won't sign Giannis or any other superstar. But I want the Spurs to have avenues to get better before their youth graduate to the point that getting better is really difficult. Apparently, that's asking too much, though.

[mo7888]

The value on 2021 cap space is actually on the rise. A) COVID-19 flatlined the cap, so many teams who thought they were going to have room won't actually have much room. B) Multiple teams are unexpectedly blowing their space this summer. C) More teams are going into the lux tax than most predicted, which could result in quite a few teams looking to scale back next summer as contracts continue to rise while the threshold stays flat.

The Spurs obviously won't sign Giannis or any other superstar. But I want the Spurs to have avenues to get better before their youth graduate to the point that getting better is really difficult. Apparently, that's asking too much, though.

Thanks. That's interesting... I'll look at the space teams have after we finish this short FA timeline and I may have to re-evaluate... The data i looked at showed huge cap space numbers next summer for about half the league. If that number has shrunk considerably it would move things towards your view...i.e. cap space growing in value..

[PhantomDashCam]

He was already scoring in the 20's while not being featured in the offense, barely any plays run for him towards the end of last season. With ease.

I hope you’re right. There will be more mouths to feed now and hope he is given a chance to attack the same way as we saw at the end of last season.

[objective]

the big question on future capspace is:

Are RC and Brian Wright, or perhaps just Brian Wright, the kind of Front Office that will

A. Use capspace to sign 1 year deals &/or take on bad salary for first round picks ?

OR

B. Sign 30+ year old players to $30+ million a year deals like Charlotte did with Hayward?

[R. DeMurre]

The value on 2021 cap space is actually on the rise. A) COVID-19 flatlined the cap, so many teams who thought they were going to have room won't actually have much room. B) Multiple teams are unexpectedly blowing their space this summer. C) More teams are going into the lux tax than most predicted, which could result in quite a few teams looking to scale back next summer as contracts continue to rise while the threshold stays flat.

The Spurs obviously won't sign Giannis or any other superstar. But I want the Spurs to have avenues to get better before their youth graduate to the point that getting better is really difficult. Apparently, that's asking too much, though.

Covid is another interesting angle that I'm not seeing discussed too much. With next season outside of the bubble & having a start date that coincides with a huge predicted second wave headed towards peaking, it's hard to say what could happen to the NBA season if there are bigger outbreaks among players. With the added difficulties of travel and players not in lockdown, it's not out of the question that the season could be halted or cancelled at some point, which would bring on a whole new slew of financial questions for the league.

[timvp]

With the added difficulties of travel and players not in lockdown, it's not out of the question that the season could be halted or cancelled at some point, which would bring on a whole new slew of financial questions for the league.

Yet another reason to horde cap space. In a doomsday scenario, the Spurs would be sitting even prettier by having more cap space than every team outside of the dumpster fire Knicks. :smokin

[BackHome]

I honestly think the upcoming seasons will only last a couple of weeks before being shut down and then will see another bubble playoff. So I am really hoping we start off slow so we can get a better pick in the next draft. I also think LMA may decide not to play this season due to his heart issues and will wait until he can get a vaccine shot before he plays.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I don't value the potential cap space as much as others but I imagine if they get their FA targets to sign it won't be too difficult to clear enough room to do it by trading Poeltl or someone else into cap space for nothing like they did with Splitter. With a lot of teams having cap room Poeltl's value would be at least neutral. Likewise for Murray. I find this scenario highly unlikely though. And certainly don't want them to target players like Galo or Hayward at the cost they'd command.

[Shakril]

This is a very good Deal for the Spurs. Poeltl could have made 10mil/per year on other Teams. But Poeltl actually wanted to be in San Antonio, just not for 5 Mil/year (qualifying offer).

Poeltl is one of those Players, whose impact you dont see in the Stats. And because he is not a flashy Player, his contributions are going unnoticed.

His Defense alone makes him a perfect fit with the young Guards from the spurs.

What he needs now is playing time, and i believe that the Spurs gave him assurances that he will get it.

He is only 25 years of old. So he still will get better than he already is.

Two things i would like to see this year: FT % up to 70 (or at least a clear improvement) and get his Foul Troubles under control.

[RC_Drunkford]

This is a very good Deal for the Spurs. Poeltl could have made 10mil/per year on other Teams. But Poeltl actually wanted to be in San Antonio, just not for 5 Mil/year (qualifying offer).

did he call you to tell you that?

[CGD]

This all seems right. I’m just disappointed that they weren’t able to move on from the LMA-Gay-DDR core this offseason to improve their chances of being in a better 2021 draft position. The idea of chasing the 8th seed/playoff gate in a Covid compromised season seems silly.

[ragas]

did he call you to tell you that?

No. We’ve called him to tell us that. And before you ask: That’s no joke.

[kobyz]

Spurs fans: The Spurs aren't good and need to try to get better. What are they even doing? Do they know they're allowed to trade.

timvp: Here are various paths they could take to try to get better.

Spurs fans: Heh, that won't work. Why bother.

Spurs fans want the team to decide on direction, or trading LMA and DDR and tanking, or trying to bring a star player and compete... No staying in between fighting for 8th seed!

[Excessive Egotist]

https://www.spurstalk.com/san-antonio-spurs-thoughts-jakob-poeltl-drew-eubanks/

Also touch on the importance of salary cap space, what else the Spurs could do this summer, the likelihood of a trade, etc.

Thanks for the article. It triggered several thoughts, but I'll limit myself to one. If New York, Atlanta, or OKC don't use all their salary space and the Spurs are really trying to maximize cap next summer, a mid season deal sending Poeltl or Murray into someone's space without taking any players back would generate a trade exception that took the Spurs to, effectively, 50-55M in space. By the end of today, this possibility will likely be gone because teams are still spending, but something like Murray to Knicks for draft compensation only would generate a trade exception as of this morning. Murray to Atlanta for draft compensation or Cam Reddish only--based on Atlanta's present payroll--would generate a 10M exception for Spurs, effectively pushing the team to 50M in projected cap space.

I'm not advocating for this, just gaming out ways to increase cap space, if this becomes a goal for the front office.

I don't see many other ways to grow the clubs projected space.

There are, of course, a lot of scenarios that would allow SA to generate exceptions by participating in trades that involve Atlanta or New York, but since the Spurs veterans are already expiring those scenarios merely create an accounting distinction without a difference.

[Shakril]

did he call you to tell you that?

There is such a thing like Interviews before Free Agency, were he already indicated that he wanted to stay, but under the right circumstances. Means more Minutes, bigger role and more money. The fact that he did not sign the Qualifying offer underlined that 5 Million was not enough. Players are not stupid, their agents arent either, they know what offers are out their for them. It is known that other teams were interested and were ready to pay. (Tim VP has also confirmed that). The timing of the signing was significant, 15 mins before RFA could get offer sheets.

Unlike some members of this Board, executives value Poeltl a lot. When you watch around other Teams, were Poeltl is mentioned, fans actually have a good opinion on him. So its not unreasonable to think, that Poeltl could get 10 Millions.

Of course, i could be totally wrong, and Poeltl was just money grabbing and the spurs had the best offer. But that seems rather unrealistic by everything thats out.

[Excessive Egotist]

I'm taking some comfort in the fact that the Spurs have clean paths forward, assuming they stick to a maximizing cap space strategy. One young taking a big step (Keldon, for example), the 2021 lottery (which has superstar ceilings at least six players deep), and max cap space next summer could get us to a new, young big three. Vassell is like a bonus lottery ticket wrapped into all this.

The Spurs will probably also develop one surplus young talent that they can move in a trade--DJ or Lonnie are the leading candidates--for a good return.

The West has become more competitive and the Spurs' postseason odds are longer next season than this. Maybe we should hope for LaMarcus ball for the first 40 games to establish our draft position.

The only thing I'd like to see is Spurs take a couple swings with their final roster spot/two way contracts. Depending on how they do it, it could push the team into the tax. But worse case, they just buy Mills and/or Gay out midseason and get back under the line. I suspect the team will do that regardless (if they can't trade those players) to free up a couple G-league signings.

[Rummpd]

Both are B- signings with a C- front office that used to be an A - and most importantly will be coached by a C- coach who used to be A+ - so no matter how good they are wont likely matter.

[**BUSTA**]

Spurs should have pursued Harry Giles.

[TD 21]

The Poeltl complaints are nonsense. Look at the going rate for even decent C's, it's still better than expected.

This is a good, youngish one, who fills a positional need and drives winning. You don't lose that because his limitations could matter on a contender, his contract is slightly higher than ideal or it cuts into '21 cap space.

If said slight difference ends up mattering (highly unlikely), it shouldn't be difficult to figure out at that point. There is no albatross on the books anymore.

[Down Under]

I suppose the last chance for a trade now, is a S&T of Whiteside (to a 3rd team), LMA to Blazers & Collins to Spurs. Collins would fit well on our timeline & would be a good backup to Poeltl. LMA would give the Blazers size in the short term as a backup to Nurkic & would mean they don't have to play Kanter in the playoffs.

[Chinook]

Collins is awful at playing basketball. I'd rather just cut Aldridge than do that trade.