White Extension

[Down Under]

Does it get done? What does it look like? 2 way player, no real flaws in his game - can shoot, create, facilitate, defend at high level. High end starter on a contender. 4yrs/$80? Bit more, bit less? 3 years for more per year?

[FkLA]

Supermax, imo.

[buttsR4rebounding]

4 years/65 million.

[Dejounte]

Less than $25 mil a year is ideal. That way we can have cap space for Giannis next year. Giannis went back to Milwaukee yesterday and still no word of him signing the extension with them... Hmmm.....

[Down Under]

He could get an offer sheet close to mid 20s per next offseason IMO

[ismael-robert]

Isn't this just a repeat of the White Watch thread

[R. DeMurre]

I'd love it of course if it happened, but I just don't see a Giannis-to-San-Antonio scenario-- there are so many other more likely options, like joining forces with Doncic in Dallas, joining an already good team in Miami or Toronto, or teams with budding stars like Memphis, New Orleans, teams in major markets, etc... The question I've been wondering about is who might the Spurs specifically be targeting in '21. I suppose if guys like KJ and Walker had crazy breakout years, it might change the equation, but I'm not counting on any top free agents considering the Spurs. The younger lower tier one I really liked before his most recent injury was Jonathan Isaac. I'd love someone like Sabonis, but it looks like Indiana will stick with him. The guy that looks the most plausible is John Collins-- one of my least favorite options.

[John B]

If our guys surprise and make some noise, why not? Giannis could say he’s the missing piece that takes Spurs back to the finals. And he’s familiar with Spurs system with under Coach Bud.

[DeRozan m8]

Less than $25 mil a year is ideal. That way we can have cap space for Giannis next year. Giannis went back to Milwaukee yesterday and still no word of him signing the extension with them... Hmmm.....

What fucking drugs are you on?

There's literally 0 chance of Giannis coming here.

None.

Some of you are weird

[KobesAchilles]

Whatever Forbes got minus a million. The dude was clearly worse than Forbes and nothing more than a bench player.

[Dejounte]

What fucking drugs are you on?

There's literally 0 chance of Giannis coming here.

None.

Some of you are weird

Technically, there is a chance until there isn't a chance. I'm not betting on it, but it's fucking nice to dream sometimes than be a douchebag like yourself.

[J_Paco]

I think the Spurs should play it close & see if White can really make the next step. So far, all three guards (yes, including DeJounte) show glimmers of what the could be. Ye,t they all stumbled at different points last season & no one emerged as a true building block (or star).

I think Derrick is the best of the bunch, but he's also the oldest & could possibly be flipped for a first-round pick if they don't deem him as building piece (on a rebuilding team).

Hopefully Pop actually gives all 5 guards/wings the minutes & room to show more than last season. We can't keep all of them & we need one, two or three to emerge as legitimate contributors.

[Dejounte]

I'd love it of course if it happened, but I just don't see a Giannis-to-San-Antonio scenario-- there are so many other more likely options, like joining forces with Doncic in Dallas, joining an already good team in Miami or Toronto, or teams with budding stars like Memphis, New Orleans, teams in major markets, etc... The question I've been wondering about is who might the Spurs specifically be targeting in '21. I suppose if guys like KJ and Walker had crazy breakout years, it might change the equation, but I'm not counting on any top free agents considering the Spurs. The younger lower tier one I really liked before his most recent injury was Jonathan Isaac. I'd love someone like Sabonis, but it looks like Indiana will stick with him. The guy that looks the most plausible is John Collins-- one of my least favorite options.

All good points, let's play devil's advocate:

Dallas - doubt Giannis is at that age to want to share the spotlight (with a star who shines brighter than him)

Miami - I don't believe they have a max contract to offer. He would have to take a paycut. I'm not sure Giannis' personality really meshes well with Jimmy's.

Toronto - does he want to follow Nephew's shadow? Is that supporting cast really a good fit for him? He seems to duplicate Siakam's skills...

Memphis & New Orleans ? Are we kidding ourselves here? Seems like lesser type organizations with nothing to offer.

When you say teams with major markets, you only mean the Knicks right? They're the only one with cap space, I believe. If he goes to the Knicks, his career will go into the dumpster like Melo's...

Spurs? Coach Bud probably talks highly of Pop all day to Giannis. Core group is the same age as him. Being from Greece, he probably idolized the Spurs growing up. Giannis is unselfish and gives a lot to the community, he probably sees the Spurs values and loves it. Seems like a major coincidence that the way the roster has been constructed is with a hole at the 4 spot, where Giannis perfectly fits in.

[J_Paco]

All good points, let's play devil's advocate:

Dallas - doubt Giannis is at that age to want to share the spotlight (with a star who shines brighter than him)

Miami - I don't believe they have a max contract to offer. He would have to take a paycut. I'm not sure Giannis' personality really meshes well with Jimmy's.

Toronto - does he want to follow Nephew's shadow? Is that supporting cast really a good fit for him? He seems to duplicate Siakam's skills...

Memphis & New Orleans ? Are we kidding ourselves here? Seems like lesser type organizations with nothing to offer.

When you say teams with major markets, you only mean the Knicks right? They're the only one with cap space, I believe. If he goes to the Knicks, his career will go into the dumpster like Melo's...

Spurs? Coach Bud probably talks highly of him all day to Giannis. Core group is the same age as him. Being from Greece, he probably idolized the Spurs growing up. Giannis is unselfish and gives a lot to the community, he probably sees the Spurs values and loves it. Seems like a major coincidence that the way the roster has been constructed is with a hole at the 4 spot, where Giannis perfectly fits in.

On what planet or league is Doncic a bigger/"brighter" star than Giannis?

Doesn't Giannis have his own signature shoe, major endorsement deals & he's one of the highest vote getters during all - star voting while playing in a small market?

[Rusty]

Supermax, imo.

:lol

[Dejounte]

On what planet or league is Doncic a bigger/"brighter" star than Giannis?

Doesn't Giannis have his own signature shoe, major endorsement deals & he's one of the highest vote getters during all - star voting while playing in a small market?

Doncic, 2nd place in votes behind LeBron. I don't see Dallas as some big market team.

If Giannis was a brighter star, his time is over. (Relative to Doncic)

I don't even think the sales for his shoes are doing well.

Hulu is the only significant sponsor that i see. Which major endorsement deal are you talking about?

[jjktkk]

All good points, let's play devil's advocate:

Dallas - doubt Giannis is at that age to want to share the spotlight (with a star who shines brighter than him)

Miami - I don't believe they have a max contract to offer. He would have to take a paycut. I'm not sure Giannis' personality really meshes well with Jimmy's.

Toronto - does he want to follow Nephew's shadow? Is that supporting cast really a good fit for him? He seems to duplicate Siakam's skills...

Memphis & New Orleans ? Are we kidding ourselves here? Seems like lesser type organizations with nothing to offer.

When you say teams with major markets, you only mean the Knicks right? They're the only one with cap space, I believe. If he goes to the Knicks, his career will go into the dumpster like Melo's...

Spurs? Coach Bud probably talks highly of Pop all day to Giannis. Core group is the same age as him. Being from Greece, he probably idolized the Spurs growing up. Giannis is unselfish and gives a lot to the community, he probably sees the Spurs values and loves it. Seems like a major coincidence that the way the roster has been constructed is with a hole at the 4 spot, where Giannis perfectly fits in.

I worry that Giannis will follow other recent stars and go to one of the LA teams. But, to add to your point about Giannis possibly coming to S.A., You would think Giannis would be impressed how the Spurs have made foreign players like Manu and Tony into star players.

[The Truth #6]

We couldn’t even get Morris to come here after agreeing. So I hope all the energy on this board isn’t fixated on Giannis. Cool to dream, but not a strategy to build around. They should probably do the opposite, in theory, and see if there is a strategy of how to take advantage of the market with teams deluding themselves into Waiting for Giannis. But I digress.

As for White, until he plays for Becky next year, I’m reserving judgment on what his ceiling is. Extend him, yes, but I wonder if he will be prioritized better under the next coach.

[tbdog]

If you can create a max, you do it.

[Dejounte]

We couldn’t even get Morris to come here after agreeing. So I hope all the energy on this board isn’t fixated on Giannis. Cool to dream, but not a strategy to build around. They should probably do the opposite, in theory, and see if there is a strategy of how to take advantage of the market with teams deluding themselves into Waiting for Giannis. But I digress.

As for White, until he plays for Becky next year, I’m reserving judgment on what his ceiling is. Extend him, yes, but I wonder if he will be prioritized better under the next coach.

It is cool to dream. Dreaming about Giannis could end this week if we hear news about his extension. That was always the most likeliest possibility. If he doesn't though? If he keeps posting subtle photos with fiesta colors like yesterday? Then how could you stop people from dreaming? People who don't dream are boring.

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/head-coach-gregg-popovich-of-team-africa-with-giannis-antetokounmpo-picture-id482648932

[Sugus]

It is cool to dream. Dreaming about Giannis could end this week if we hear news about his extension. That was always the most likeliest possibility. If he doesn't though? If he keeps posting subtle photos with fiesta colors like yesterday? Then how could you stop people from dreaming? People who don't dream are boring.

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/head-coach-gregg-popovich-of-team-africa-with-giannis-antetokounmpo-picture-id482648932

We gotta speak it into existence... :stirpot:

[ECOV]

We gotta speak it into existence... :stirpot:
facts

[R. DeMurre]

All good points, let's play devil's advocate:

Dallas - doubt Giannis is at that age to want to share the spotlight (with a star who shines brighter than him)

Miami - I don't believe they have a max contract to offer. He would have to take a paycut. I'm not sure Giannis' personality really meshes well with Jimmy's.

Toronto - does he want to follow Nephew's shadow? Is that supporting cast really a good fit for him? He seems to duplicate Siakam's skills...

Memphis & New Orleans ? Are we kidding ourselves here? Seems like lesser type organizations with nothing to offer.

When you say teams with major markets, you only mean the Knicks right? They're the only one with cap space, I believe. If he goes to the Knicks, his career will go into the dumpster like Melo's...

Spurs? Coach Bud probably talks highly of Pop all day to Giannis. Core group is the same age as him. Being from Greece, he probably idolized the Spurs growing up. Giannis is unselfish and gives a lot to the community, he probably sees the Spurs values and loves it. Seems like a major coincidence that the way the roster has been constructed is with a hole at the 4 spot, where Giannis perfectly fits in.


Good points.

*I don't know Giannis's mind, but I'm sure he's smart enough to see the power of the LeBron/AD duo and know that tackling that solo will be difficult. If Giannis could focus 100% on defense and share the offensive burden with Doncic, it would be deadly.

*I agree that Jimmy Butler has a strong personality, and that could deter some. But man, the defense of a Giannis-Bam-Butler trio would be nuts.

*Worrying about following Kawhi is an obsession for Spurs' fans. I don't think it would mean much to anyone else.

*Ja and Zion are upcoming probable stars, and could be seen as good #2 options.

I just don't see Giannis feeling a special or unique connection for San Antonio... again, I don't know his mind but it's a small town vibe, and it's in Texas. Bigger more metropolitan cities are more like Athens, have more African culture, more African Americans, more culture generally. Trust me, if I'm wrong I will be thrilled. It's just not a bet I see as having legs.

Who's target #2 & #3 for you?

[Dejounte]

Good points.

*I don't know Giannis's mind, but I'm sure he's smart enough to see the power of the LeBron/AD duo and know that tackling that solo will be difficult. If Giannis could focus 100% on defense and share the offensive burden with Doncic, it would be deadly.

*I agree that Jimmy Butler has a strong personality, and that could deter some. But man, the defense of a Giannis-Bam-Butler trio would be nuts.

*Worrying about following Kawhi is an obsession for Spurs' fans. I don't think it would mean much to anyone else.

*Ja and Zion are upcoming probable stars, and could be seen as good #2 options.

I just don't see Giannis feeling a special or unique connection for San Antonio... again, I don't know his mind but it's a small town vibe, and it's in Texas. Bigger more metropolitan cities are more like Athens, have more African culture, more African Americans, more culture generally. Trust me, if I'm wrong I will be thrilled. It's just not a bet I see as having legs.

Who's target #2 & #3 for you?

Target #2 and #3 are trades for me.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2020_transactions.html

Unexpected trades happen all the time.

Mike Conley to the Jazz was an unexpected trade. We can pull something like that off.

Brogdon, Jimmy Butler, Kemba, Durant were all unexpected trades. We have the assets to pull off a trade for players like these.

There's usually players out there we won't know are available until they're traded.

[Chinook]

I dunno if I have to be the one to mention Leonard's name first as a free-agent addition, but I'll go ahead. If the Clippers flame out again in embarrassing fashion, I could see something breaking in Kawhi's Kamp and him leaving LA. If he does and SA has money, a good young core and the pieces to trade for a second/third star, then they'd make as much sense as any. The only competitor would be Miami. Leonard's branding issues would probably be resolved either way, though the storylines would look at lot better for him leaving LA to go "home", so to speak rather than ditching them for another large market after driving them into the ground.

The key would be to not get sucked into any demands or drawn-out negotiations. Come correct, make your best offer and be ready to move on the moment the answer is not "yes".

The target order should be

1 - Giannis
2 - Leonard
3 - Collins overpay
4 - George
5 - DeRozan (for cheap)
6 - OG overpay
7 - Porter
8 - Oubre
9 - Duncan Robinson overpay
10 - DeRozan (for not cheap)

Depending on how far down the list their top guy falls, they could probably get two of those players. More likely though, the would be better served signing one and trading for

[R. DeMurre]

Target #2 and #3 are trades for me.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2020_transactions.html

Unexpected trades happen all the time.

Mike Conley to the Jazz was an unexpected trade. We can pull something like that off.

Brogdon, Jimmy Butler, Kemba, Durant were all unexpected trades. We have the assets to pull off a trade for players like these.

There's usually players out there we won't know are available until they're traded.

I agree completely-- and that's why I think the trade route using the expiring contracts of Aldridge & DeRozan + draft picks + a young player is a more plausible way for the Spurs to land a star or a couple of very good just-below-star-level players. The team is flush with young players, so adding a draft pick at this point wouldn't be the risky sacrifice it might've been in past recent seasons.

[TD 21]

The Antetokounmpo talk is insane, Conley to the Jazz was not unexpected, many of the others ended up sign and trades but their leaving their then incumbent teams was not unexpected and the Spurs don't have the assets to trade for a superstar or star.

You always need a young or youngish centerpiece to pull that off and right now they lack that. White is the closest, but he's also already 26 and seems destined to top out in that nebulous zone between star and role player, a la Brogdon or Van Vleet.

White is in their class or capable, but because he's not as established, the Spurs are going to get luck and get him for probably 4/$60-70M, $15-25M less than they received.

[Chinook]

Target #2 and #3 are trades for me.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2020_transactions.html

Unexpected trades happen all the time.

Mike Conley to the Jazz was an unexpected trade. We can pull something like that off.

Brogdon, Jimmy Butler, Kemba, Durant were all unexpected trades. We have the assets to pull off a trade for players like these.

There's usually players out there we won't know are available until they're traded.

Can't help but notice that all of those players you listed as unexpected trades were free-agent signings that were reworked as sign-and-trades. Not that those couldn't happen for the Spurs, but they weren't really like the first two Butler trades or Conley. I think the Spurs might be able to pull off a Gobert trade, and there are mixed feelings about whether that would be a good thing. I could see John Collins this year too if he's upset about not getting an extension. Hopefully not Aaron Gordon though he's not a bad fit for the team. MAYBE Otto Porter.

[Dejounte]

I dunno if I have to be the one to mention Leonard's name first as a free-agent addition, but I'll go ahead. If the Clippers flame out again in embarrassing fashion, I could see something breaking in Kawhi's Kamp and him leaving LA. If he does and SA has money, a good young core and the pieces to trade for a second/third star, then they'd make as much sense as any. The only competitor would be Miami. Leonard's branding issues would probably be resolved either way, though the storylines would look at lot better for him leaving LA to go "home", so to speak rather than ditching them for another large market after driving them into the ground.

The key would be to not get sucked into any demands or drawn-out negotiations. Come correct, make your best offer and be ready to move on the moment the answer is not "yes".

The target order should be

1 - Giannis
2 - Leonard
3 - Collins overpay
4 - George
5 - DeRozan (for cheap)
6 - OG overpay
7 - Porter
8 - Oubre
9 - Duncan Robinson overpay
10 - DeRozan (for not cheap)

Depending on how far down the list their top guy falls, they could probably get two of those players. More likely though, the would be better served signing one and trading for

Oh man. People do not give you enough credit for your humor.

That joke the other day ... As if people would know who the fuck Luc Richard is when abbreviated. That was classic.

Unsuspecting humor that catches people off guard.

Bravo

[Chinook]

The Antetokounmpo talk is insane, Conley to the Jazz was not unexpected, many of the others ended up sign and trades but their leaving their then incumbent teams was not unexpected and the Spurs don't have the assets to trade for a superstar or star.

You always need a young or youngish centerpiece to pull that off and right now they lack that. White is the closest, but he's also already 26 and seems destined to top out in that nebulous zone between star and role player, a la Brogdon or Van Vleet.

White is in their class or capable, but because he's not as established, the Spurs are going to get luck and get him for probably 4/$60-70M, $15-25M less than they received.

The unexpected part of the Conley trade was that Utah paid so much for him. Most had Conley as a clear negative due to his horrible contract.

I think Murray could be the centerpiece in a trade for a star. He's certainly not a good piece by my eye, but he has a good mid-sized contract for trading, which is important for in-season deals where neither team can afford to take back too many players to match salaries. Like Murray and Lyles for Gordon works without any other salary for example, and it's easier to take back than like White, Lyles and Mills. Sure they could do Gay instead, but that's an option the Spurs avoid with Murray.

[Dejounte]

Can't help but notice that all of those players you listed as unexpected trades were free-agent signings that were reworked as sign-and-trades. Not that those couldn't happen for the Spurs, but they weren't really like the first two Butler trades or Conley. I think the Spurs might be able to pull off a Gobert trade, and there are mixed feelings about whether that would be a good thing. I could see John Collins this year too if he's upset about not getting an extension. Hopefully not Aaron Gordon though he's not a bad fit for the team. MAYBE Otto Porter.

Good catch. It was a lazy check on my part. Surely there are other offseasons that there were players who were unexpectedly traded?

[Chinook]

Oh man. People do not give you enough credit for your humor.

That joke the other day ... As if people would know who the fuck Luc Richard is when abbreviated. That was classic.

Unsuspecting humor that catches people off guard.

Bravo

Mbah a Moute was a pretty common trade target back in his Milwaukee days. He made basically as much as Matt Bonner did, and the team lacked a defensive four to compliment Leonard. I doubt anyone besides maybe me used LRMaM, but I bet a lot of older folks on here knew I was talking about Luc when I typed that. They're pretty similar players in terms of body type.

[Chinook]

Good catch. It was a lazy check on my part. Surely there are other offseasons that there were players who were unexpectedly traded?

Yes, like Kawhi to Toronto and Paul to Houston. I think it'll be an unexpected team that gets Gobert this season and Embiid next.

[Dejounte]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2018_transactions.html

Is Paul George for Oladipo a better example?

I need a better website that shows which trades didn't involve a sign and trade ...

[Dejounte]

Yes, like Kawhi to Toronto and Paul to Houston. I think it'll be an unexpected team that gets Gobert this season and Embiid next.

Big yikes. Neither are that appealing.

But i guess it may be a marginal upgrade over having Aldridge.

[Chinook]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2018_transactions.html

Is Paul George for Oladipo a better example?

I need a better website that shows which trades didn't involve a sign and trade ...

Yes, that's another great example, as was Philly getting Butler. Even Miami getting Dragic back in the day or Dallas getting KP a couple of years ago.

[Chinook]

Big yikes. Neither are that appealing.

But i guess it may be a marginal upgrade over having Aldridge.

I see Gobert as having a clear ceiling at this point, and it's hard to imagine winning with him as one of the top-paid players unless a team has great players on rookie deals. Embiid has the talent to be a franchise cornerstone, and I think he'll mature as he ages. The only issue with him is health with that in mind. I don't know if SA could get him, but if they managed to do so while keeping most of their current rotation, they'd be a top-three team in the West -- this season. He's that good.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The target order should be

1 - Giannis
2 - Leonard
3 - Collins overpay
4 - George
5 - DeRozan (for cheap)
6 - OG overpay
7 - Porter
8 - Oubre
9 - Duncan Robinson overpay
10 - DeRozan (for not cheap)

Depending on how far down the list their top guy falls, they could probably get two of those players. More likely though, the would be better served signing one and trading for

I've been thinking about what they could do with a lot of cap space. Would you overpay for Jonathan Isaac, or even Lauri Markkanen? Sort of realistic targets, obviously you'd be hoping their teams wouldn't match and that there'd be some untapped potential there, but it's difficult to find too many names in next year's free agency who could move the needle for SA.

[R. DeMurre]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2018_transactions.html

Is Paul George for Oladipo a better example?

I need a better website that shows which trades didn't involve a sign and trade ...

Oladipo and Sabonis. I do think people took returning from double shoulder surgeries for granted, but if PG doesn't have a bounce back season this year, Sabonis could plausibly be the better player over the next five years. That'll be ages 30-35 for George, and 24-29 for Sabonis.

[Chinook]

I've been thinking about what they could do with a lot of cap space. Would you overpay for Jonathan Isaac, or even Lauri Markkanen? Sort of realistic targets, obviously you'd be hoping their teams wouldn't match and that there'd be some untapped potential there, but it's difficult to find too many names in next year's free agency who could move the needle for SA.

I've seen Markkanen hyped up a lot, but I think Bulls fans are starting to realize his limitations. From what he's shown, I don't think I'd want to pay enough to snag him. Isaac's injury history is just too bad for me to want SA to toss in a huge contract. He could be the final piece to a great defense, but he'll've missed basically a year-and-a-half of basketball by the time he comes back. I wouldn't feel comfortable going there. I think Collins, OG and Robinson are all better bets

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I've seen Markkanen hyped up a lot, but I think Bulls fans are starting to realize his limitations. From what he's shown, I don't think I'd want to pay enough to snag him. Isaac's injury history is just too bad for me to want SA to toss in a huge contract. He could be the final piece to a great defense, but he'll've missed basically a year-and-a-half of basketball by the time he comes back. I wouldn't feel comfortable going there. I think Collins, OG and Robinson are all better bets

Yeah either would be a huge risk. Isaac's been pretty bad his first two seasons but he's started to turn it around before his injury last season. He's becoming a more well rounded player , albeit in a small sample size. He'd also fit with everyone else seamlessly. His injuries are scary admittedly.

Markkanen, I don't like too much either and he's regressed the past season.

[R. DeMurre]

I've been thinking about what they could do with a lot of cap space. Would you overpay for Jonathan Isaac, or even Lauri Markkanen? Sort of realistic targets, obviously you'd be hoping their teams wouldn't match and that there'd be some untapped potential there, but it's difficult to find too many names in next year's free agency who could move the needle for SA.


I really liked the healthy Jonathan Isaac this year. He's improved steadily for three years and is only 23, but is set to miss this entire season after knee surgery, which means he might enter free agency not having played for a year. Great fit though, if the Spurs' medical team thinks he's fully recovered.

[DeRozan m8]

Technically, there is a chance until there isn't a chance. I'm not betting on it, but it's fucking nice to dream sometimes than be a douchebag like yourself.

Yeah, let's just spend life in fantasy land, dreaming up impossible things that you can't even control.

The best chance this team has of moving forward successfully is basically building something from the ground up again....and then adding a big piece when its an enticing place to be again.

No huge player is coming here in free agency until that

[cd021]

Dunc'd On just did their mock rookie contract extension podcast and Nate Duncan had White getting around $22 million per but he agreed to take 3 years $58 million.

[Dejounte]

Yeah, let's just spend life in fantasy land, dreaming up impossible things that you can't even control.

The best chance this team has of moving forward successfully is basically building something from the ground up again....and then adding a big piece when its an enticing place to be again.

No huge player is coming here in free agency until that

I never said to plan around on Giannis coming here. Learn to fucking read and stop being a Debbie Downer, holy shit. You boring fuck.

[k830713]

50/4

[superbigtime]

The unexpected part of the Conley trade was that Utah paid so much for him. Most had Conley as a clear negative due to his horrible contract.

I think Murray could be the centerpiece in a trade for a star. He's certainly not a good piece by my eye, but he has a good mid-sized contract for trading, which is important for in-season deals where neither team can afford to take back too many players to match salaries. Like Murray and Lyles for Gordon works without any other salary for example, and it's easier to take back than like White, Lyles and Mills. Sure they could do Gay instead, but that's an option the Spurs avoid with Murray.

Would LOVE to trade Dejounte. he is a dead end.

[r0drig0lac]

68/4

[Spursfanfromafar]

I dunno if I have to be the one to mention Leonard's name first as a free-agent addition, but I'll go ahead. If the Clippers flame out again in embarrassing fashion, I could see something breaking in Kawhi's Kamp and him leaving LA. If he does and SA has money, a good young core and the pieces to trade for a second/third star, then they'd make as much sense as any. The only competitor would be Miami. Leonard's branding issues would probably be resolved either way, though the storylines would look at lot better for him leaving LA to go "home", so to speak rather than ditching them for another large market after driving them into the ground.

The key would be to not get sucked into any demands or drawn-out negotiations. Come correct, make your best offer and be ready to move on the moment the answer is not "yes".

The target order should be

1 - Giannis
2 - Leonard
3 - Collins overpay
4 - George
5 - DeRozan (for cheap)
6 - OG overpay
7 - Porter
8 - Oubre
9 - Duncan Robinson overpay
10 - DeRozan (for not cheap)

Depending on how far down the list their top guy falls, they could probably get two of those players. More likely though, the would be better served signing one and trading for

Lol :)

[GreekSpursfan]

It is cool to dream. Dreaming about Giannis could end this week if we hear news about his extension. That was always the most likeliest possibility. If he doesn't though? If he keeps posting subtle photos with fiesta colors like yesterday? Then how could you stop people from dreaming? People who don't dream are boring.

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/head-coach-gregg-popovich-of-team-africa-with-giannis-antetokounmpo-picture-id482648932

Giannis is loyal, he was loyal to freaking Jason Kidd who fucked up his development imo, now he's loyal to Bud. If Bud was to tell him i'm going to the Spurs next season come with me, i bet he would come to us. This highly unlikely scenario can only come to fruition through Bud and only him otherwise Giannis is staying in Milwaukee. I don't see Giannis going to the Lakers ever, the Heat probably because of his friend Bam but that's about it. Only the Heat have a realistic chance and i put us as second only because of Bud.

[cd021]

I think what Murray got is his floor. Something like 4 years, $68-80 million. That's a big range but it's still hard to determine whether he can replicate his bubble play over the course of a full season.

[Spursfanfromafar]

White is in line for a $70 million 4 year extension, methinks, with a front-loaded salary.

[BillMc]

With all the deadline shuffling, when is the last day to extend him?

[offset formation]

With all the deadline shuffling, when is the last day to extend him?

Not sure. But speaking of extensions, your account pics...

[Degoat]

The Dunc’d on podcast did a rookie extension pod and they talked about Derrick whites possible contract extension one guy said Derrick will ask for over 20 million a year and the other guy discussed basically an insultingly low deal.

[offset formation]

The Dunc’d on podcast did a rookie extension pod and they talked about Derrick whites possible contract extension one guy said Derrick will ask for over 20 million a year and the other guy discussed basically an insultingly low deal.

He'll likely get 80/4, unless he wants to cut the Spurs a bit of flexibility the way Spurs of yore did, and maybe do a 70/4 deal. The loyalty thing used to work both ways, but that also tends to mean the Spurs give him a bit bigger third contract than PATFO would prefer to give him in 2025 or whenever.

[BillMc]

White is relatively old for his first non-rookie contract. This will be his only chance to cash in during his absolute physical prime. I'd assume he's not really in position to give major discounts. He's gotta make his cash while he can.

[offset formation]

White is relatively old for his first non-rookie contract. This will be his only chance to cash in during his absolute physical prime. I'd assume he's not really in position to give major discounts. He's gotta make his cash while he can.

Right. Unless he gets another 60/4 deal next when he should only be getting a 45 or 50/4 deal. Lots of unknowns but I'm sure he and his agent know how PATFO does business.

[Rocalcio]

On what planet or league is Doncic a bigger/"brighter" star than Giannis?

Doesn't Giannis have his own signature shoe, major endorsement deals & he's one of the highest vote getters during all - star voting while playing in a small market?

Doncic is the future of the league, much more than Giannis.

[Degoat]

I don’t envision DWhite doing this but they talked about how he could do a 3 year deal so that he’ll be 29 when the deal ends so he could get another decent pay day, but I think somewhere along the lines of 4 year/78-81 million will happen

[Down Under]

With all the deadline shuffling, when is the last day to extend him?
21st December - day before the season starts.

[BillMc]

21st December - day before the season starts.
Thanks. :bobo

[TD 21]

The unexpected part of the Conley trade was that Utah paid so much for him. Most had Conley as a clear negative due to his horrible contract.

I think Murray could be the centerpiece in a trade for a star. He's certainly not a good piece by my eye, but he has a good mid-sized contract for trading, which is important for in-season deals where neither team can afford to take back too many players to match salaries. Like Murray and Lyles for Gordon works without any other salary for example, and it's easier to take back than like White, Lyles and Mills. Sure they could do Gay instead, but that's an option the Spurs avoid with Murray.

Not a chance. Unless Murray ups his 3-point volume considerably while at least coming close to maintaining his %, he'll be undesirable because he'll be an expensive, net negative offensively.

Gordon isn't a star and the Magic already have the same issue with Fultz (at least he's a play maker though) and just drafted Anthony.

[exstatic]

Not a chance. Unless Murray ups his 3-point volume considerably while at least coming close to maintaining his %, he'll be undesirable because he'll be an expensive, net negative offensively.

Gordon isn't a star and the Magic already have the same issue with Fultz (at least he's a play maker though) and just drafted Anthony.

Murray is not expensive. He’s a young, versatile two way player making $16M in a league where player annual salaries are edging up towards $50M, a figure that Harden apparently turned down for his extension.

[TD 21]

Murray is not expensive. He’s a young, versatile two way player making $16M in a league where player annual salaries are edging up towards $50M, a figure that Harden apparently turned down for his extension.

Relative to the caliber of player he is and the skillsets teams value, he is. That's a big number for a net negative offensively, with a torn ACL.

[R. DeMurre]

Absolute best case scenario for Spurs this year is Tre Jones winds up being as good as Murray, and the Spurs trade DeRozen & Murray for a true star.

[Dejounte]

Absolute best case scenario for Spurs this year is Tre Jones winds up being as good as Murray, and the Spurs trade DeRozen & Murray for a true star.

It doesn't have to be Tre. Lonnie or Vassell can make Murray expendable. We have depth at the position he plays, even in front of Tre.

[J_Paco]

Doncic is the future of the league, much more than Giannis.

I totally disagree, but I know people wanting Doncic to be the "next great player" has more than a few factors involved.

[r0drig0lac]

I totally disagree, but I know people wanting Doncic to be the "next great player" has more than a few factors involved.

Doncic will never be better than Giannis, it is simply impossible (except for some Giannis injury)

[Dejounte]

Do people here not watch the NBA outside the Spurs? People are really not aware of the historical numbers Doncic has put up?

[Dejounte]

Doncic has joined an elite list of NBA legends:

-Doncic and Wilt Chamberlain are the players ever with 43+ points, 17+ rebounds and 13+ assists in a game.

-Doncic and Michael Jordan are the only players to put up 40+ points and hit a game-winning buzzer-beater while trailing.

-Doncic and LeBron James are the one 21-year-olds to record 30 point triple-double in playoffs.

Doncic is currently is the only player with more than one triple-double in the NBA playoffs this year. In his second year, Doncic's magic is already becoming a superhuman phenomenon that is etching him into the history books.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp-mavericks/nba/mavericks/news/dallas-mavs-luka-doncic-mind-blowing-nba-stats-records-can-he-do-it-again-tonight-in-game-5

Not to mention, Giannis has been repeatedly exposed when it matters most whereas Luka barely has any weaknesses.

I've already debunked your statement that Giannis was more popular.

[r0drig0lac]

Doncic has joined an elite list of NBA legends:

-Doncic and Wilt Chamberlain are the players ever with 43+ points, 17+ rebounds and 13+ assists in a game.

-Doncic and Michael Jordan are the only players to put up 40+ points and hit a game-winning buzzer-beater while trailing.

-Doncic and LeBron James are the one 21-year-olds to record 30 point triple-double in playoffs.

Doncic is currently is the only player with more than one triple-double in the NBA playoffs this year. In his second year, Doncic's magic is already becoming a superhuman phenomenon that is etching him into the history books.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp-mavericks/nba/mavericks/news/dallas-mavs-luka-doncic-mind-blowing-nba-stats-records-can-he-do-it-again-tonight-in-game-5

Not to mention, Giannis has been repeatedly exposed when it matters most whereas Luka barely has any weaknesses.

I've already debunked your statement that Giannis was more popular.

even if they don't mean anything in the same way, at least the discussions are with crude statistics and not with misleading advanced statistics, this is already an evolution

[GB20]

Doncic will never be better than Giannis, it is simply impossible (except for some Giannis injury)
Doncic is already better than Giannis. Giannis can’t shoot for shit, specially if you need him to take the last shot.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I remember I was pretty happy for the Suns when they drafted Ayton, and my younger brother told me they'd regret not picking Luka.

Cuban knew what he was doing on that one. I heard he was going to do whatever needed to be done to get Doncic on the roster.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Doncic is already better than Giannis. Giannis can’t shoot for shit, specially if you need him to take the last shot.

Doncic isn't half as good as Giannis on the defensive end, though.

[Dejounte]

Doncic isn't half as good as Giannis on the defensive end, though.

Does that matter in today's NBA? Let's be real.

I don't remember Giannis being talked about much in the playoffs for his defense. Did he shut down anybody? He couldn't even stop Kawhi.

[exstatic]

Does that matter in today's NBA? Let's be real.

I don't remember Giannis being talked about much in the playoffs for his defense. Did he shut down anybody? He couldn't even stop Kawhi.

Uh, Milwaukee didn’t play the Clippers in the playoffs. Giannis can play defense, and yes, in today’s NBA, it matters. So few can do all of the switches, it may matter more now.

[Dejounte]

Uh, Milwaukee didn’t play the Clippers in the playoffs. Giannis can play defense, and yes, in today’s NBA, it matters. So few can do all of the switches, it may matter more now.

I was talking about last year in regards to Kawhi.

And as for defense, I was talking about on ball D.

So long as you're not a liability on defense, as Doncic isn't, defense is not as important in today's NBA.

[Spursfanfromafar]

I was talking about last year in regards to Kawhi.

And as for defense, I was talking about on ball D.

So long as you're not a liability on defense, as Doncic isn't, defense is not as important in today's NBA.

The best defensive team in the league won the title this year and the team with the best defensive player in the league won it the previous year. Defense always matters in basketball.

[Dejounte]

The best defensive team in the league won the title this year and the team with the best defensive player in the league won it the previous year. Defense always matters in basketball.

Team defense is different than individual defense, which is what we are talking about when we are comparing two players.

Put the best defensive player on a bad defensive team and it doesn't make that team one of the top defensive teams without the correct players and defensive philosophies.

Are you calling Kawhi the best defensive player last year? Because that is just outrageous...


Article in 2019:

"That’s what Kawhi Leonard was this year too. He had by far the worst DBPM of his career (and does again in the playoffs, a worrying sign) with his ever increasing offensive load. Like PG, Kawhi played for a top-5 defense but got plenty of help from Gasol, Siakam, Danny Green, Ibaka, and Lowry. OKC and Toronto were great defenses because of team defense more than individual play. Jimmy Butler was not good on defense this year."

https://medium.com/sportsraid/best-defense-nba-2019-defensive-player-of-year-first-second-team-gobert-antetokounmpo-turner-b6ec6212a065

[R. DeMurre]

The fact that this Giannis vs Doncic debate is even happening kinda shows why they'd be such a great pairing. And that's without even discussing Porzingis. No one's saying "yeah but is Giannis even better than DeRozan?" or "Lonnie Walker is a better 3 pt shooter than Giannis!"

[TD 21]

Antetokounmpo is definitely better than Doncic right now. It'll be difficult for the latter to truly ever be the best because he'll always be a sub par initial defender (granted, he's big and a good rebounder, but still), but the league and media can't wait to crown him. Other than the fact that he's foreign, he's their wet dream.


The best defensive team in the league won the title this year and the team with the best defensive player in the league won it the previous year. Defense always matters in basketball.

:lmao At thinking Scumbag was ever the best defensive player in the league, let alone recently.

Antetokounmpo and Davis are the two best defensive players in the league because of their superior versatility to the likes of Gobert and Embiid (the rare times he's in shape and playing hard).

[SpursforSix]

Bend over, I'll fucking give you a white extension.

[exstatic]

Antetokounmpo is definitely better than Doncic right now. It'll be difficult for the latter to truly ever be the best because he'll always be a sub par initial defender (granted, he's big and a good rebounder, but still), but the league and media can't wait to crown him. Other than the fact that he's foreign, he's their wet dream.


Great White Hope, tbh.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/malika_andrews/status/1334586449233145857?s=19

#hegone
#comehometoSA
#nextspurssuperstar
#lolspergs
#eyetesters

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/ScottGrodsky/status/1334582375674761218?s=20

[exstatic]

https://twitter.com/ScottGrodsky/status/1334582375674761218?s=20

He’ll either sign it by the 20th, or he won’t.

[Dejounte]

He’ll either sign it by the 20th, or he won’t.

And if he doesn't, the probability for Giannis to become a Spur goes from 1% to 5%. I like it.

[exstatic]

And if he doesn't, the probability for Giannis to become a Spur goes from 1% to 5%. I like it.

How is there a 1% chance he becomes a Spur if he DOES sign it? :lol

[Dejounte]

How is there a 1% chance he becomes a Spur if he DOES sign it? :lol

I didn't mean it like that. More like how Vegas odds changes by the day as news gets provided every day.

Like how right now it's a 1% chance for Giannis to become a Spur because there's still a possibility he signs with the Bucks.

Remove that possibility and then it becomes 5%.

I think they call it 'running probability'

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

Doncic is a great player and he put up amazing stats last year but as of right now he isn’t better than Giannis.

he has to be more efficient shooting the ball, cut down on the turnovers, and be at least not bad on defense. The crazy part about all the things he needs to get better at, is the fact that he is still damn close to being as impactful/good as Giannis. Lol

Doncic is a really damn good player to be so young!

[BackHome]

I would take Doncic cause I am trying to win a Championship and he has proven that he can rise to the challenge and produce and help his team win. Giannis unless he makes some big improvements will be shut down like he has the last two years in the playoffs cause teams now know how to shut him down

I don't think he will sign an extension and I think he ends up in either the Heat or Dallas.

[RC_Drunkford]

I would take Doncic cause I am trying to win a Championship and he has proven that he can rise to the challenge and produce and help his team win. Giannis unless he makes some big improvements will be shut down like he has the last two years in the playoffs cause teams now know how to shut him down

I don't think he will sign an extension and I think he ends up in either the Heat or Dallas.

Giannis got shut down because Bledsoe couldn't shoot. I get what you are saying, but if you play Giannis with 4 3-point shooters there's no way to stop him

[r0drig0lac]

I would take Doncic cause I am trying to win a Championship and he has proven that he can rise to the challenge and produce and help his team win. Giannis unless he makes some big improvements will be shut down like he has the last two years in the playoffs cause teams now know how to shut him down

I don't think he will sign an extension and I think he ends up in either the Heat or Dallas.

when did he do that?

[J_Paco]

when did he do that?

When he lost to the Clippers in the first round?

And Doncic being white has a lot to do with all the hype & praise he's receiving, right now. He's basically a white version of James Harden, but people are acting like he's the next coming of Mike or LeBron. He does play a less selfish game than Harden so I'll give him that at least.

Anyway, has anyone on the Spurs said anything about Derrick's possible extension so far?

[wildbill2u]

How many superstars have ever come to the Spurs via trades or drafts in the last twenty years? Put it another way, how many superstars would like to play in San Antonio, away from the spotlight of major cities and the lure of easy women and lifestyle unlimited. Even St. Duncan was tempted to go to Orlando --Orlando for Christ's Sake--until a sense of loyalty and a full court press got him to stay. I don't think he has any regrets now, but Superstars of a certain age don't have the wisdom of later years.

If we get a superstar via the draft someday, (a la Kwahi) we see the pattern of the superstar leaving a really nice team for greener pastures rather than be the franchise player we could have built around. That is the future of superstars in San Antonio unless we find a truly unusual guy like Duncan and Manu and Tony. All of the Big Three could have written their own ticket to other teams. They were that good individually, but we can thank our lucky stars that they believed their future was tied to each other and the Spurs.

[TDMVPDPOY]

bucks is a small market team? but doesnt the owner also owns like 2 other sports team in that state?...GA should just sign the supermax and call it a day, end of the day its about the money

[Dejounte]

How many superstars have ever come to the Spurs via trades or drafts in the last twenty years? Put it another way, how many superstars would like to play in San Antonio, away from the spotlight of major cities and the lure of easy women and lifestyle unlimited. Even St. Duncan was tempted to go to Orlando --Orlando for Christ's Sake--until a sense of loyalty and a full court press got him to stay. I don't think he has any regrets now, but Superstars of a certain age don't have the wisdom of later years.

If we get a superstar via the draft someday, (a la Kwahi) we see the pattern of the superstar leaving a really nice team for greener pastures rather than be the franchise player we could have built around. That is the future of superstars in San Antonio unless we find a truly unusual guy like Duncan and Manu and Tony. All of the Big Three could have written their own ticket to other teams. They were that good individually, but we can thank our lucky stars that they believed their future was tied to each other and the Spurs.

You have to overcome trauma, not avoid it

If the Spurs always act with fear in the future because of the past, they're going to miss out on a lot of players

[BackHome]

When he lost to the Clippers in the first round?

And Doncic being white has a lot to do with all the hype & praise he's receiving, right now. He's basically a white version of James Harden, but people are acting like he's the next coming of Mike or LeBron. He does play a less selfish game than Harden so I'll give him that at least.

Anyway, has anyone on the Spurs said anything about Derrick's possible extension so far?

I guess you didn’t watch the game’s cause he did not get shut down he put up some sick stats.

As far as White I think the Spurs are going to be cautious they going to have to have money to pay all these other youngsters Walker, Keldon, Luka, plus White has had feet issues I think every year he has played so I don’t think they in a rush. As far as White I like him he has a good attitude is a team player and I think once DEROZZ is gone he will be prime ball handler and will see improvements and I think he will sign a team friendly deal.

[Gibbz]

I don't know about team friendly deal. When guys like Bertans and Joe Harris are signing $76m and $80m deals D-Dub is gonna get a Brink's truck.

[BackHome]

That depends on his health if his feet stay healthy plantar fasciitis then we’ll yeah he will get a truck load money compared to what he is currently making. As far as team friendly I mean he could probably get more from another team but if he seems to be a guy who if he is happy with his role and his team mates and coach and city then he will be like Manu but yeah he still going to be a Multi Millionaire. Lol