What a disappointment this team and FO is now

[Rummpd]

Imagine having two supposed aging but potentially trade-able stars and a HOF coach and this motley poorly assembled lot of players is what going forward with? Got a decent draft choice and a few younger erratic pieces to build on but any one believing this FO has stepped up and trying to really improve over next few years is being deceived. Spurs FO and coach just wants to feel being even in contention to make playoffs is good enough. Should have blown it up and gone with youth and got draft choices ala OKC as teams like Suns NO and Portland making savvy moves while SAS FO is a joke. That is the bottom line - welcome to the 34 and 38 2020-21 nothing to write home about Spurs.

[Chinook]

Nah they're fine.

[Rummpd]

Nah they're fine.

In what way - Murray and White erratic and two stars either a step slow or very inconsistent in bringing it. Poetl is not the answer and Pop is disengaged at best. Teams a joke with terrible execution post Duncan

[itzsoweezee]

Can you believe that we are now going on 3 seasons of demar derozan as the main guy? :spin

[Sugus]

Aren't we "going with youth" now? Take a look at the whole roster, not the top 2 players. And what's Phoenix's strategy worked out for? Zero playoff appearances so far, zero rings. They've been tanking for how many years now? Same for OKC... Multiple MVP caliber players, no rings to show for it. Now they're rebuilding, again... Sure, they have a lot of picks, let's see what comes out of that. Portland? They're a middling team, have been one forever, now will be paying like 40M/year to Dame and probably won't get closer to a chip than they did playing against the Warriors... Also 0 chips, if that wasn't obvious as a thematic so far.

Maybe analyze the states of every team in context, instead of just looking in a vacuum without forward nor backwards analysis and just going "but the grass is SO GREEN on the other side!!!".

[itzsoweezee]

Aren't we "going with youth" now? Take a look at the whole roster, not the top 2 players. And what's Phoenix's strategy worked out for? Zero playoff appearances so far, zero rings. They've been tanking for how many years now? Same for OKC... Multiple MVP caliber players, no rings to show for it. Now they're rebuilding, again... Sure, they have a lot of picks, let's see what comes out of that. Portland? They're a middling team, have been one forever, now will be paying like 40M/year to Dame and probably won't get closer to a chip than they did playing against the Warriors... Also 0 chips, if that wasn't obvious as a thematic so far.

Maybe analyze the states of every team in context, instead of just looking in a vacuum without forward nor backwards analysis and just going "but the grass is SO GREEN on the other side!!!".

LMA, DDR, Mills, and Gay. That's 4 vets that the spurs have valued more than any other team in the league. 4 vets that failed to make the playoffs last year and will not make the playoffs this year. If you're spending that much on vets that are producing so poorly, you're doing a terrible job.

Also, it's pointless to look at this on a one year basis. The true mismanagement occurred prior to the beginning of last season. They should have traded DDR at that point but vastly overestimated how good their roster was going to perform and underestimated how much better the rest of the conference was. Overall, just incompetence

[Chinook]

In what way - Murray and White erratic and two stars either a step slow or very inconsistent in bringing it. Poetl is not the answer and Pop is disengaged at best. Teams a joke with terrible execution post Duncan

Saying things like, "not the answer" is meaningless. The team wasn't going to find a title contender out of nowhere. They've been pulling rabbits out of their hats for two decades. Trying to judge them because they haven't managed to snag a third franchise player with the heart of the cards doesn't make sense.

They have a stable of young players who they like and are developing and have all of their picks and loads of cap space. That's a perfectly fine position to be in three years out from losing a cornerstone.

[Sugus]

LMA, DDR, Mills, and Gay. That's 4 vets that the spurs have valued more than any other team in the league. 4 vets that failed to make the playoffs last year and will not make the playoffs this year. If you're spending that much on vets that are producing so poorly, you're doing a terrible job.

Also, it's pointless to look at this on a one year basis. The true mismanagement occurred prior to the beginning of last season. They should have traded DDR at that point but vastly overestimated how good their roster was going to perform and underestimated how much better the rest of the conference was. Overall, just incompetence

I'm not going to rehash every argument that went down during the DeRozan trade "age" - it's all been written down. I also wished they would've gone a different route, but they didn't. That doesn't mean they're incompetent (not to mention the GM isn't the same as it was then), nor that "any one believing this FO has stepped up and trying to really improve over next few years is being deceived", to quote OP directly. People are just so impatient when it comes to rebuilding... You can't jettison every vet you have the moment it starts to look like you're not making the playoffs, nor should you, ever. Time and time again, we've seen the failures of teams filled with young talent that have no vets to teach them, or over-rely on tanking without plans to get out of that mindset... People complain about the Spurs' current state, but would you rather be Sacramento right now? No you wouldn't.

Next question - would you have traded LMA for just a second round pick? I wouldn't have. As far as I know, no reports have come out on possible trades that the Spurs FO weighted or denied; people complain that they're still here while ignoring that the return for them can absolutely be worse than their staying in SA and mentoring the young players. Actually, I don't think you value vet mentorship at all, nor does the OP - is that not a factor whatsoever? What player came into the league and didn't need anyone taking them under their wing to be great? Even Timmy had the Admiral to look up to... Lastly, this is the "purgatory" situation all over again - the Spurs are paying their vets heftily, for this season only. I understand criticizing their previous moves (and understand people on this forum will never grow tired of doing so), but to do that right now? They're all expiring... Literally won't be a problem a year from now. Might not even be a problem after the trade deadline, depending on which vet we're talking about.

Overall, though, I agree - it's worthless to look at this on a one year basis. I look at it on a multi-year basis - the Spurs have rang more than any of these supposedly better teams, sooner than them, and might ring again sooner than them as well. Certainly seems worth a few years of mediocrity and development to me, and not a lot of incompetence. Why don't we talk about OKC's incompetence, or the Suns', or Portland's or whomever...? Oh yeah, because thrashing their FOs here is no fun.

[DeRozan m8]

Fuck them and fuck that nephew cunt

[Mr. Body]

It's your fault for buying into the internet rumors about pre-draft trades. Wasn't going to happen and y'all are idiots. Trades will emerge once the season starts and teams see where they are.

The team only has about six young players with great potential to develop.

[Seventyniner]

Ugh. I like to think I have a long fuse, but OP is going on ignore. There is only so much incessant bitching and whining I can take.

...and yet I still read this board so that can't be that true, can it?

[timtonymanu]

People shouldn’t take OP seriously tbh. :lol

[cd98]

Got to feature LMA and DDR if you want to trade them.

[Rummpd]

Saying things like, "not the answer" is meaningless. The team wasn't going to find a title contender out of nowhere. They've been pulling rabbits out of their hats for two decades. Trying to judge them because they haven't managed to snag a third franchise player with the heart of the cards doesn't make sense.

They have a stable of young players who they like and are developing and have all of their picks and loads of cap space. That's a perfectly fine position to be in three years out from losing a cornerstone.



The over-estimation of the poorly matched and overall constructed talent on this team is unreal. Spurs have a few erratic promising young players that in at least two cases (Murray and White) have not reached potential (either due to injuries, coaching or whatever); and then the majority that are just average at best NBA players, and two aging stars that don't match each other and neither shows leadership or stretches the floor. They got a good draft pick but likely will be buried on the bench. FO has been a joke for at least three years. Several teams in West are on the move up while the Spurs show no sign of joining them. Hope I am wrong, but with this coach much more likely to try to placate veterans then let the few potential better than average NBA players (that are young) develop - it is not likely I am.

[poopbox]

Got to feature LMA and DDR if you want to trade them.

You actually don't. Both of those guys have a long enough history in this league for teams to know who they are. There is not one team in the league who didn't like them and will see them play and then decide to trade for them, or one team who wants to trade for them but doesn't see them play so won't trade for them. I don't know where people get this line of thinking from.

[DMC]

Aren't we "going with youth" now? Take a look at the whole roster, not the top 2 players. And what's Phoenix's strategy worked out for? Zero playoff appearances so far, zero rings. They've been tanking for how many years now? Same for OKC... Multiple MVP caliber players, no rings to show for it. Now they're rebuilding, again... Sure, they have a lot of picks, let's see what comes out of that. Portland? They're a middling team, have been one forever, now will be paying like 40M/year to Dame and probably won't get closer to a chip than they did playing against the Warriors... Also 0 chips, if that wasn't obvious as a thematic so far.

Maybe analyze the states of every team in context, instead of just looking in a vacuum without forward nor backwards analysis and just going "but the grass is SO GREEN on the other side!!!".

Just look at the Lakers. They tried the lottery thing for years and never sniffed the playoffs until the best player in the game brought the 2nd best along with him and they got all the leg riders to pile in. They should get a tour bus and just have instant ring tours from city to city.

[Rummpd]

You actually don't. Both of those guys have a long enough history in this league for teams to know who they are. There is not one team in the league who didn't like them and will see them play and then decide to trade for them, or one team who wants to trade for them but doesn't see them play so won't trade for them. I don't know where people get this line of thinking from.

Truth

[Thomas82]

You actually don't. Both of those guys have a long enough history in this league for teams to know who they are. There is not one team in the league who didn't like them and will see them play and then decide to trade for them, or one team who wants to trade for them but doesn't see them play so won't trade for them. I don't know where people get this line of thinking from.

The problem is that PATFO tends to overvalue their players. The facts that they asked for too much from teams inquiring about LA and DeRozan is that they never intended on trading them unless a team made them an offer they couldn't say no to.

[John B]

I think they shopped Aldridge and Demar, but couldn't get the best value. The athletic core played well in the bubble, and it's worth seeing what they can do minus the defensive liability of Bryn and Beli. And in contract year, Demar and Aldridge have something to show for to get their last chance of getting paid. They will surprise people this year imo

[Sugus]

Just look at the Lakers. They tried the lottery thing for years and never sniffed the playoffs until the best player in the game brought the 2nd best along with him and they got all the leg riders to pile in. They should get a tour bus and just have instant ring tours from city to city.

Exactly, tbh. Pro-tanking fans are so quick to mention how this or that team just HAS to blow it up, like there's some hurry to do so instead of trying to let things run their natural course - all whilst ignoring the absolute multitude of times teams have tanked consistently, only to come up empty-handed. If the Lakers weren't in LA, they'd be looking at a near 10 year playoff drought right now, but sure, tanking is The Way for every team that's slightly below championship level. Just blow it up and draft an MVP or two! Ain't that hard...

[Sugus]

I think they shopped Aldridge and Demar, but couldn't get the best value. The athletic core played well in the bubble, and it's worth seeing what they can do minus the defensive liability of Bryn and Beli. And in contract year, Demar and Aldridge have something to show for to get their last chance of getting paid. They will surprise people this year imo

I'm unusually excited for the season, tbh. We played a great brand of basketball in the bubble, got rid of defensive liabilities and replaced them with huge pluses on D, and modernized the team further. Even if we end up losing a bunch of games, the growing pains will be great and refreshing to see, instead of watching known-quantity vets pound the air out of the ball. Just hope DeMar doesn't go full Kobe every single 4th quarter close game... Gotta let the young guys get their experience in clutch situations as well.

[KobesAchilles]

I mean I'm happy we got rid of Bryn and Marco. Not signing any more old useless players is a major plus (talking about you Carroll) and not re-signing DDR even after his strong showing in the bubble was a plus too. I like our draft as well. The FO did it's part. This is not going to be a quick rebuild. It's going to take luck and time. Tanking is not clearly the answer and neither is this team. We need to find a good player in the draft that can carry us in order to contend again, but also surround them with the right vets. It's hard man.

But this season should be a fun one. Even if we lose a lot we will be young, fast, lots of ball movement, and lots of 3s and fast breaks. There are going to be a lot of high scoring games. And I'm excited for it. We are finally going to see our youth come into fruition.

[exstatic]

Just look at the Lakers. They tried the lottery thing for years and never sniffed the playoffs until the best player in the game brought the 2nd best along with him and they got all the leg riders to pile in. They should get a tour bus and just have instant ring tours from city to city.

LA is a terrible team to use as a cautionary tale against tanking. The just flat suck at player development. Randle, Ingram, and DLo have all made great strides since leaving, and both DLo and Ingram each have an ASG selection on their resume. There are plenty of reasons not to tank, but the LAL incompetence at PD isn’t one of them.

[Sugus]

LA is a terrible team to use as a cautionary tale against tanking. The just flat suck at player development. Randle, Ingram, and DLo have all made great strides since leaving, and both DLo and Ingram each have an ASG selection on their resume. There are plenty of reasons not to tank, but the LAL incompetence at PD isn’t one of them.

I mean, that's not exactly not a reason to tank, either - I'd say in fact that it's a perfectly fine argument against tanking, as it is. Because it's not just about sucking so bad that you get the top pick, it's also about giving said pick a proper development, coaching, nurturing, and a fundamentally good situation to blossom in (which is FAR too often ignored when talking about tanking; the toll that it takes on the young players being forced or told to throw games, and the losing culture that develops as a result and sticks with them). There just aren't any Timmy's that are ready-to-go from day 1 and can give an organization the benefit of not having a good coaching or PD staff, and it's no wonder that all the players drafted by the Lakers got better once they left that shitty situation.

Ironically, teams like Phoenix or Sacramento end up losing a lot of the young talent that they get from tanking to other teams, because they either can't draft the good prospects, can't develop them when they do draft well, or can't afford to pay them after they've been developed, since the rest of the team isn't in a state of contention (or worse, like the Fox situation on the Kings, being forced to pay a Max contract to a player that has yet to see the playoffs, because he's too good to let enter FA). All overlooked things when people argue pro-tank.

[TD 21]

I mean, that's not exactly not a reason to tank, either - I'd say in fact that it's a perfectly fine argument against tanking, as it is. Because it's not just about sucking so bad that you get the top pick, it's also about giving said pick a proper development, coaching, nurturing, and a fundamentally good situation to blossom in (which is FAR too often ignored when talking about tanking; the toll that it takes on the young players being forced or told to throw games, and the losing culture that develops as a result and sticks with them). There just aren't any Timmy's that are ready-to-go from day 1 and can give an organization the benefit of not having a good coaching or PD staff, and it's no wonder that all the players drafted by the Lakers got better once they left that shitty situation.

Ironically, teams like Phoenix or Sacramento end up losing a lot of the young talent that they get from tanking to other teams, because they either can't draft the good prospects, can't develop them when they do draft well, or can't afford to pay them after they've been developed, since the rest of the team isn't in a state of contention (or worse, like the Fox situation on the Kings, being forced to pay a Max contract to a player that has yet to see the playoffs, because he's too good to let enter FA). All overlooked things when people argue pro-tank.

:lmao You novice, that's not how tanking works. No one would ever tell players to intentionally lose, it's more of an organizational direction, like the Thunder who've set themselves up to do so for a while.

[BacktoBasics]

The problem is that PATFO tends to overvalue their players. The facts that they asked for too much from teams inquiring about LA and DeRozan is that they never intended on trading them unless a team made them an offer they couldn't say no to.

How much then. Where do you draw the line. You want say... a Boston 1st. Probably gonna be pick 25-30. But you’ll have to take back around 8-10 million for that exception to work.

I’d rather have the cap space than the late pick and be strapped with 2-3 years of a mediocre players 10 million dollar contract.

Can you cite a source that returns a top 14 pick? Because that’s my cutoff. If we have to absorb a shit contract I want a top 14. I don’t see that coming from anywhere for free.

It’s as if some here think we can land a respectable prospect and pick for either of these guys. Maybe one will materialize but I don’t see it on the table. At best you’re looking at a very late 1st and shit role player on an unappealing contract.

Making a trade just to move bodies around is stupid. Especially if it costs you financial freedom later.

[DMC]

Exactly, tbh. Pro-tanking fans are so quick to mention how this or that team just HAS to blow it up, like there's some hurry to do so instead of trying to let things run their natural course - all whilst ignoring the absolute multitude of times teams have tanked consistently, only to come up empty-handed. If the Lakers weren't in LA, they'd be looking at a near 10 year playoff drought right now, but sure, tanking is The Way for every team that's slightly below championship level. Just blow it up and draft an MVP or two! Ain't that hard...

I was thinking about starting a multi-million dollar business out of my garage. Then it hit me, why waste my time with something so flighty? Why not instead start a multi-billion dollar business?

[Rummpd]

Glad to see contrary opinions I have followed Spurs 30 plus years and will still root for them regardless of the fact I think FO will act in desperation rather than with strategy based on last few years.

[DMC]

LA is a terrible team to use as a cautionary tale against tanking. The just flat suck at player development. Randle, Ingram, and DLo have all made great strides since leaving, and both DLo and Ingram each have an ASG selection on their resume. There are plenty of reasons not to tank, but the LAL incompetence at PD isn’t one of them.

OK then use the Pelicans, or the Cavaliers sans Lebron, or hell, pick one.

[ducks]

Pop was to worried about trump

[BacktoBasics]

Pop was to worried about trump

You just can’t put the stupidity aside and participate like a normal human being. So typical of your kind. You’ve long been the most pathetic poster here. I’ve never seen a legitimate take from you. Same dickless bot you’ve always been.

[EasyMoney]

Pop was to worried about trump



Hes been talking about Donald Trump since 2016 but go ahead. Continue.

[Sugus]

:lmao You novice, that's not how tanking works. No one would ever tell players to intentionally lose, it's more of an organizational direction, like the Thunder who've set themselves up to do so for a while.

Sure, because players just can't see that the "organizational direction" is to intentionally lose... :rolleyes

[Down Under]

Solid offseason IMO.
-Got rid of 1-way vets who were clogging wing minutes
-Waived Metu & Zeller to free up roster spots for potential NBA players
-Signed Eubanks, who looks like he could be a backup C to a 3 year contract with only 1 year guaranteed.
-Drafted the player with arguably the highest floor in the draft at 11 in a weak draft to solidify our wing rotation.
-Signed Poeltl, a starting calibre Centre who can anchor an elite defense to a very reasonable contract relative to others at his position.
-Signed Jones, who looks to be one of the likeliest 2nd rounders in the draft to play.
-Took a no risk flyer on Kieta Bates-Diop


Extend White & that's a decent offseason

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

i have my rummpd days, tbh

one championship (thanks timmay :'-D ) since 2008 ... 12 years and looking like another 12 before lobt is a consideration

[Fusternino]

We still need a 6'8"-6'9" true 3 or combo forward. Options?

[cd021]

We still need a 6'8"-6'9" true 3 or combo forward. Options?
There seems to be several expected to go in the lottery

[Seventyniner]

Solid offseason IMO.
-Got rid of 1-way vets who were clogging wing minutes
-Waived Metu & Zeller to free up roster spots for potential NBA players
-Signed Eubanks, who looks like he could be a backup C to a 3 year contract with only 1 year guaranteed.
-Drafted the player with arguably the highest floor in the draft at 11 in a weak draft to solidify our wing rotation.
-Signed Poeltl, a starting calibre Centre who can anchor an elite defense to a very reasonable contract relative to others at his position.
-Signed Jones, who looks to be one of the likeliest 2nd rounders in the draft to play.
-Took a no risk flyer on Kieta Bates-Diop


Extend White & that's a decent offseason

Add on "preserved 2021 cap space by not taking on long-term money". Waiting until next offseason to extend White helps preserve some of that cap space.

Just like how the Spurs put Number Two's extension off to keep enough room to sign Aldridge. Number Two went off the deep end later, but if that delay is what set him off then he was always going to bitch out. He ended up doing just that anyway.

[Down Under]

Add on "preserved 2021 cap space by not taking on long-term money". Waiting until next offseason to extend White helps preserve some of that cap space.

Just like how the Spurs put Number Two's extension off to keep enough room to sign Aldridge. Number Two went off the deep end later, but if that delay is what set him off then he was always going to bitch out. He ended up doing just that anyway.
He signed the max contract with Brian Elfus in 2015, a year before Dennis tookover. Dennis wanted the commission from endorsements as they don't have a cap on what he can take, unlike playing salary, which is capped at 4%. Easier to market corny slogans, 'Fun Guy', 'Board man gets paid', 'Kawhi Not', 'What it do, baby', 'My City' in LA when you can't market yourself with the media & don't have a social media account.

[rudwick]

:lmao You novice, that's not how tanking works. No one would ever tell players to intentionally lose, it's more of an organizational direction, like the Thunder who've set themselves up to do so for a while.

I think it would look like starting Bryn for a whole season, then letting him go for nothing.

[FireMicoHalili]

always a good thing to keep in mind: hardly anyone wants to go to San Antonio, the nightlife isn't comparable to LA/MIA/NY, Pop's system isn't for everyone, owners are penny-pinchers. Don't be surprised if draft picks leave, blue chip players prefer to go elsewhere, or if the FO overpays players just to stay. Not surprising yes, but whether the past few blunders are right decisions is largely up for debate.

[daslicer]

always a good thing to keep in mind: hardly anyone wants to go to San Antonio, the nightlife isn't comparable to LA/MIA/NY, Pop's system isn't for everyone, owners are penny-pinchers. Don't be surprised if draft picks leave, blue chip players prefer to go elsewhere, or if the FO overpays players just to stay. Not surprising yes, but whether the past few blunders are right decisions is largely up for debate.

Agreed. If the Spurs ever get lucky and draft a top 5 player it will be hard to keep that player. Robinson-Duncan were not your typical superstars both were college educated, and were not into the night life that's a big reason why they never left. Both of them also had great maturity which is something a lot of today's superstar's lack ala Durant,Harden,etc. The odds of the Spurs getting that type of superstar again is not that high. I enjoyed the 5 titles the Spurs won and accepted it as a once in lifetime deal. If the Spurs ever win another title that would be like playing with house money for me. My expectations are low. All I want is just an exciting team to watch. This current group seems like they can fit the bill.

[Frenchfred]

The Spurs have been relevant only because of Duncan so the draft of a unique individual. San Antonio is not an attractive destination so even with a good FO, you won’t get the best players through free agency or trades. Lamarcus type player is the best you can hope for. So, you’ll have to wait for another Duncan, which is statistically really low.

[CGD]

Im willing to give the benefit of the doubt if their is a sensible strategy for transition to the next era and they actually execute on it this season. E.g., if this is an year to focus on youth, then Pop best not bury them on the bench. Or if the strategy is to suck and acquire assets/be dumping ground, then let’s see them be aggressive at the trade deadline with the vets.

What will be frustrating is waffling between approaches, leading to both missing the playoffs and a middling draft pick. This, especially in the backdrop of COVID limiting playoff gate revenue anyway. I personally think this is the year to suck (Covid, good draft class), but what I’m looking for is a clear theory of the case towards with the transition.

[The_Worlds_finest]

always a good thing to keep in mind: hardly anyone wants to go to San Antonio, the nightlife isn't comparable to LA/MIA/NY, Pop's system isn't for everyone, owners are penny-pinchers. Don't be surprised if draft picks leave, blue chip players prefer to go elsewhere, or if the FO overpays players just to stay. Not surprising yes, but whether the past few blunders are right decisions is largely up for debate.

“Poops system” == Having Duncan Manu and Parker.

[offset formation]

The over-estimation of the poorly matched and overall constructed talent on this team is unreal. Spurs have a few erratic promising young players that in at least two cases (Murray and White) have not reached potential (either due to injuries, coaching or whatever); and then the majority that are just average at best NBA players, and two aging stars that don't match each other and neither shows leadership or stretches the floor. They got a good draft pick but likely will be buried on the bench. FO has been a joke for at least three years. Several teams in West are on the move up while the Spurs show no sign of joining them. Hope I am wrong, but with this coach much more likely to try to placate veterans then let the few potential better than average NBA players (that are young) develop - it is not likely I am.

White hasn't reached potential? He was our third best player last year and on pace to get a nice contract from us or somebody else.

Sometimes I feel like folks just inhabit a separate universe than I do.

[Drom John]

-Waived ... Zeller


Isn't Zeller still on the roster?
IMO, the highest floor went 12th in the draft. It's Vassell's upside that I like.

Otherwise, good take.

[Warlord23]

Pop was to worried about trump

The Spurs won the 2020 NBA title, by a lot!

! This claim about basketball fraud is disputed

[KobesAchilles]

well at least we aren't the Rockets am I right Dejounte :lol

[jjktkk]

Ugh. I like to think I have a long fuse, but OP is going on ignore. There is only so much incessant bitching and whining I can take.

...and yet I still read this board so that can't be that true, can it?

Umm, not sure what to say, but I'll go with OP is a faggott. That's worked in the past on here. :lol

[jjktkk]

I'm a faggott.

Ph, wow, what do ya know? :lol

[The Truth #6]

Agreed. If the Spurs ever get lucky and draft a top 5 player it will be hard to keep that player. Robinson-Duncan were not your typical superstars both were college educated, and were not into the night life that's a big reason why they never left. Both of them also had great maturity which is something a lot of today's superstar's lack ala Durant,Harden,etc. The odds of the Spurs getting that type of superstar again is not that high. I enjoyed the 5 titles the Spurs won and accepted it as a once in lifetime deal. If the Spurs ever win another title that would be like playing with house money for me. My expectations are low. All I want is just an exciting team to watch. This current group seems like they can fit the bill.

Completely agree.

[TD 21]

Sure, because players just can't see that the "organizational direction" is to intentionally lose... :rolleyes

Now you're moving the goal posts. Tanking teams are filled with youth, many of whom are getting the opportunity of a lifetime, trying to establish themselves in the league and set themselves up for life with their second contract.

[Down Under]

Isn't Zeller still on the roster?
IMO, the highest floor went 12th in the draft. It's Vassell's upside that I like.

Otherwise, good take.
Good question with Zeller. I can't see why he hasn't be waived. Yeah Haliburton was a good pick at 12. I love Vassell's upside too, I think a long wing who can already shoot & defend is a guaranteed NBA starter as worst.

[Sugus]

Now you're moving the goal posts. Tanking teams are filled with youth, many of whom are getting the opportunity of a lifetime, trying to establish themselves in the league and set themselves up for life with their second contract.

Why though? It ties into my original argument for Ex. The fact is that none of the Lakers' young players were good or developed correctly until after they left the team that drafted them. Whether that's because of the losing culture, or the Lakers' particularly bad PD department, is not clear. I believe it's more the former, and there's a long list of players drafted into tanking teams and losing situations (where they weren't actively told to throw games, mind you) that failed to develop properly because of it.

Filling a team with youth and hoping they'll develop without vet guidance or a good culture to grow into is a recipe for disaster, IMO. Sure, the teams might finally grow into better players - once they're off your team and onto a better one. Not much use for us if we were to go that route, considering the low attractiveness of SA as a market.

[XDT76]

Good question with Zeller. I can't see why he hasn't be waived. Yeah Haliburton was a good pick at 12. I love Vassell's upside too, I think a long wing who can already shoot & defend is a guaranteed NBA starter as worst.

Maytbe as training camp body

[exstatic]

Good question with Zeller. I can't see why he hasn't be waived. Yeah Haliburton was a good pick at 12. I love Vassell's upside too, I think a long wing who can already shoot & defend is a guaranteed NBA starter as worst.

Zeller WILL be waived. They just need bodies for training camp. They can’t afford him under the tax, or anything other than a rookie on a minimum deal, and still stay under the tax.

[exstatic]

Why though? It ties into my original argument for Ex. The fact is that none of the Lakers' young players were good or developed correctly until after they left the team that drafted them. Whether that's because of the losing culture, or the Lakers' particularly bad PD department, is not clear. I believe it's more the former, and there's a long list of players drafted into tanking teams and losing situations (where they weren't actively told to throw games, mind you) that failed to develop properly because of it.

Filling a team with youth and hoping they'll develop without vet guidance or a good culture to grow into is a recipe for disaster, IMO. Sure, the teams might finally grow into better players - once they're off your team and onto a better one. Not much use for us if we were to go that route, considering the low attractiveness of SA as a market.

We’re actually not arguing about the concept of tanking. I think it’s a bad idea. I just didn’t like your LAL example.

[offset formation]

Agreed. If the Spurs ever get lucky and draft a top 5 player it will be hard to keep that player. Robinson-Duncan were not your typical superstars both were college educated, and were not into the night life that's a big reason why they never left. Both of them also had great maturity which is something a lot of today's superstar's lack ala Durant,Harden,etc. The odds of the Spurs getting that type of superstar again is not that high. I enjoyed the 5 titles the Spurs won and accepted it as a once in lifetime deal. If the Spurs ever win another title that would be like playing with house money for me. My expectations are low. All I want is just an exciting team to watch. This current group seems like they can fit the bill.

The Spurs more than likely aren't going to draft the type of guy you're talking about though. They draft Spurs type guys that seem to have been good teammates and aren't divas. Neph fooled a lot of ppl.

[pad300]

Zeller WILL be waived. They just need bodies for training camp. They can’t afford him under the tax, or anything other than a rookie on a minimum deal, and still stay under the tax.

That and they'll be doing Zeller (and Zeller's agent a favor) and keeping him as long as they can before tax consequences. No doubt he appreciates the paycheck while his agent is trying to find him a gig...

[Sugus]

We’re actually not arguing about the concept of tanking. I think it’s a bad idea. I just didn’t like your LAL example.

Actually, it was DMC's example actually, I was talking about teams like OKC, Phoenix, Sacramento. But yeah.

[daslicer]

The Spurs more than likely aren't going to draft the type of guy you're talking about though. They draft Spurs type guys that seem to have been good teammates and aren't divas. Neph fooled a lot of ppl.

I hope you are right about the Spurs finding another Superstar whose not a diva. The only current superstars that play today that I feel have Spurs like qualities are Jokic,Doncic, and maybe Giannis if he stays with the bucks. That's a very small group. Notice how the guys I listed are all foreigners. The rest of the superstars all have issues.

[TD 21]

Why though? It ties into my original argument for Ex. The fact is that none of the Lakers' young players were good or developed correctly until after they left the team that drafted them. Whether that's because of the losing culture, or the Lakers' particularly bad PD department, is not clear. I believe it's more the former, and there's a long list of players drafted into tanking teams and losing situations (where they weren't actively told to throw games, mind you) that failed to develop properly because of it.

Filling a team with youth and hoping they'll develop without vet guidance or a good culture to grow into is a recipe for disaster, IMO. Sure, the teams might finally grow into better players - once they're off your team and onto a better one. Not much use for us if we were to go that route, considering the low attractiveness of SA as a market.

First you claimed organizations tell players to lose in taking situations, then you tried to walk it back and claim it's players reading the tea leaves.

The Lakers young players were mostly one and done (I don't think it's a coincidence that the three who more or less played up to or exceeded immediate expectations were Clarkson, Nance, Kuzma, all spent 3-4 years in college) when they played for them and also had to play under an immense spotlight that's unusual for young players on bad teams. They were naturally going to get better.

The rest of this is a different topic from what I commented on.

[offset formation]

I hope you are right about the Spurs finding another Superstar whose not a diva. The only current superstars that play today that I feel have Spurs like qualities are Jokic,Doncic, and maybe Giannis if he stays with the bucks. That's a very small group. Notice how the guys I listed are all foreigners. The rest of the superstars all have issues.

Yes, exactly. I think many foreigners feel a bond with the teams that draft them given they're not just learning the NBA, but often times how to be an American at the same time. They click with their local NBA communities. That initial connection is often good enough to last their NBA career, especially when a team like the Spurs focuses the team oriented activities and makes it feel like an extended family.

Yes, Jokic is Spurs to his core.

[Sugus]

First you claimed organizations tell players to lose in taking situations, then you tried to walk it back and claim it's players reading the tea leaves.

The Lakers young players were mostly one and done (I don't think it's a coincidence that the three who more or less played up to or exceeded immediate expectations were Clarkson, Nance, Kuzma, all spent 3-4 years in college) when they played for them and also had to play under an immense spotlight that's unusual for young players on bad teams. They were naturally going to get better.

The rest of this is a different topic from what I commented on.

Oh, you were just addressing that part of my post? You really pick your cherries, smh. I see your point, it was bad wording on my side, and I don't particularly feel like players don't know they're going out there to lose when they're on a tanking team like you're trying to make a distinction of, so it's kind of moot if they're actively being told that they'll tank the season or not. Players aren't stupid. As for the Lakers, I think DMC didn't mention any of those you speak of, the ones who got better after leaving the Lakers were Lonzo, Ingram, and uhh Hart? What's he even up to? Lol. At least those were the ones I was talking about.

[baseline bum]

I hope you are right about the Spurs finding another Superstar whose not a diva. The only current superstars that play today that I feel have Spurs like qualities are Jokic,Doncic, and maybe Giannis if he stays with the bucks. That's a very small group. Notice how the guys I listed are all foreigners. The rest of the superstars all have issues.

What's wrong with Curry?

[daslicer]

What's wrong with Curry?

Nothing I actually forgot about Curry.

[dbreiden83080]

Franchise players don’t grow on trees. We had one in Leonard be turned out to be a complete total fucking douche bag. So we try to keep building.

[rastaspur]

OP sounds like an emo shemale.

Lighten up francis.

[rastaspur]

Pop was to worried about trump

You remind me of stork from animal house. What caused your brain damage, you broken record?

[rastaspur]

Umm, not sure what to say, but I'll go with OP is a faggott. That's worked in the past on here. :lol

It's a go to move around here. The faggot clap back.

It's the spurstalk version of deez nuts. Often overused and misused

[daslicer]

Franchise players don’t grow on trees. We had one in Leonard be turned out to be a complete total fucking douche bag. So we try to keep building.

It sucks that he was retarded and has an unhealthy emotional attachment with his uncle that can't be severed. It pisses me off sometimes thinking about how the Spurs were on the verge of doing something great historically that had never been done before which was seamlessly transition to another era of winning after losing their GOAT player Duncan. Spurs almost cheated the rebuilding mediocrity process teams have to go through after losing their GOAT but dipshit and his sleazebag Uncle prevented that from happening. Spurs were very unlucky with Kawhi. I guess statistically they were due for bad luck after having good luck with getting Gervin,Robinson,Duncan.

[Thomas82]

It sucks that he was retarded and has an unhealthy emotional attachment with his uncle that can't be severed. It pisses me off sometimes thinking about how the Spurs were on the verge of doing something great historically that had never been done before which was seamlessly transition to another era of winning after losing their GOAT player Duncan. Spurs almost cheated the rebuilding mediocrity process teams have to go through after losing their GOAT but dipshit and his sleazebag Uncle prevented that from happening. Spurs were very unlucky with Kawhi. I guess statistically they were due for bad luck after having good luck with getting Gervin, Robinson, Duncan.

I couldn't have said it better.

[RC_Drunkford]

It sucks that he was retarded and has an unhealthy emotional attachment with his uncle that can't be severed. It pisses me off sometimes thinking about how the Spurs were on the verge of doing something great historically that had never been done before which was seamlessly transition to another era of winning after losing their GOAT player Duncan. Spurs almost cheated the rebuilding mediocrity process teams have to go through after losing their GOAT but dipshit and his sleazebag Uncle prevented that from happening. Spurs were very unlucky with Kawhi. I guess statistically they were due for bad luck after having good luck with getting Gervin,Robinson,Duncan.

nailed it. I think that's how we all feel

[Rummpd]

Ph, wow, what do ya know? :lol

Nice some one makes up quotes when you cannot at all refute post that FO has underperformed over last three years yet this board in part ok with mediocrity at best.

[Sugus]

Nice some one makes up quotes when you cannot at all refute post that FO has underperformed over last three years yet this board in part ok with mediocrity at best.

Is this going to be your new shtick? Don't people in this forum ever find funnier shticks to cling on to? I can appreciate the Kawhi slurpers and TDS because at least they're a breath of fresh air from the normal doom-and-gloom, everything's bad as can be, usual suspects.

Straight out of the "made up quotes", you want the Spurs to blow it up and go with youth. What are they doing now? Do you understand there cannot be a team that is exclusively filled with young players, because of the leadership and experience vacuum it creates? Would you rather the Spurs ship out all 4 (!) remaining vets that they have, and just have the young core running around like headless chickens, no guide, no mentor, no passing-of-the-torch, nothing? How has that worked for Sacramento, or Phoenix? I'll have to pass.

It's funny, because for years, people have been clamoring for a youth movement, to drop the vets, to rebuild. Now, every sign is pointing in that direction, even the vets are saying they're happy to take a step back and just mentor the kids as they let them go to work - and people are still complaining about it. Well, you specifically, at least, before the season even starts. Yeah, we get it, Spurs FO hasn't been up to your wacky standards since the last time they created a championship caliber roster (oh! the horror!) - is that all your internet persona is going to distillate to?

Boring.


E: wait, I'll give you the old timer's benefit, since I wasn't around to see your previous shtick. Or has this always been your thing, bashing the FO since '04? Must get tiresome :lol

[The Truth #6]

Is this going to be your new shtick? Don't people in this forum ever find funnier shticks to cling on to? I can appreciate the Kawhi slurpers and TDS because at least they're a breath of fresh air from the normal doom-and-gloom, everything's bad as can be, usual suspects.

Straight out of the "made up quotes", you want the Spurs to blow it up and go with youth. What are they doing now? Do you understand there cannot be a team that is exclusively filled with young players, because of the leadership and experience vacuum it creates? Would you rather the Spurs ship out all 4 (!) remaining vets that they have, and just have the young core running around like headless chickens, no guide, no mentor, no passing-of-the-torch, nothing? How has that worked for Sacramento, or Phoenix? I'll have to pass.

It's funny, because for years, people have been clamoring for a youth movement, to drop the vets, to rebuild. Now, every sign is pointing in that direction, even the vets are saying they're happy to take a step back and just mentor the kids as they let them go to work - and people are still complaining about it. Well, you specifically, at least, before the season even starts. Yeah, we get it, Spurs FO hasn't been up to your wacky standards since the last time they created a championship caliber roster (oh! the horror!) - is that all your internet persona is going to distillate to?

Boring.


E: wait, I'll give you the old timer's benefit, since I wasn't around to see your previous shtick. Or has this always been your thing, bashing the FO since '04? Must get tiresome :lol

I agree with this. Pop is going to play young players at a fast pace this season. The skies have parted. I love our young players. Just enjoy the slow rebuild. Did I want one of LA or DD gone? Absolutely. But the way Pop has put the vets in line with the new approach is sort of amazing. I’ll take it. And honestly, I think Brian Wright may be a voice of reason compared to the usual approach if prioritizing vets at every moment, so to speak.

[SAGirl]

It is what it is. I definitely wanted the tankathon once Kawhi bailed on the team and the big 3 were no more. It was the perfect moment and there were a few promising potential franchise players coming up in the draft (Doncic among them, but very good players aside of him). They didn’t do it then and now it is what it is. If they suck despite trying to be competitive they’ll get their chances at a high draft pick. I have accepted this is what they are post Timmy. They have the chance to luck into a franchise player or maybe one of their guys would develop into one. Either way they chose not to bottom out. It may happen to them regardless, players falling off a cliff, injuries, youth being overrated and unable to deliver. Or they may over perform expectations— which would be great to see.

It is what it is. They won’t change their approach without a change in management.

[Dex]

It is what it is. I definitely wanted the tankathon once Kawhi bailed on the team and the big 3 were no more. It was the perfect moment and there were a few promising potential franchise players coming up in the draft (Doncic among them, but very good players aside of him). They didn’t do it then and now it is what it is. If they suck despite trying to be competitive they’ll get their chances at a high draft pick. I have accepted this is what they are post Timmy. They have the chance to luck into a franchise player or maybe one of their guys would develop into one. Either way they chose not to bottom out. It may happen to them regardless, players falling off a cliff, injuries, youth being overrated and unable to deliver. Or they may over perform expectations— which would be great to see.

It is what it is. They won’t change their approach without a change in management.

Winning is important to small franchises. The Lakers, Knicks, and Bulls of the NBA can sustain years of losing and being mediocre. The fans will still show up and the team will still have value, which means the owners still turn a profit. I'm not sure San Antonio fans would be as gracious. Fans not attending games, missing the playoffs, lacking merch sales, etc. all hits the bottom line.

Also, being competitive is good for development. There is a reason some teams like the Suns or Timberwolves have been stuck in the gutter so long. It's hard to instill a losing mentality into players and then suddenly just expect them to flip a switch and change that culture because you got a few good draft picks.

We obviously aren't a premier destination for free agents. For a team like the Spurs which relies so heavily on the draft and player development, that's kind of a big deal. Guys like Murray, White, Walker, etc. wouldn't become the players we want them to be if we had them going out and trying to lose 65 games a year.

[The Truth #6]

It is what it is. I definitely wanted the tankathon once Kawhi bailed on the team and the big 3 were no more. It was the perfect moment and there were a few promising potential franchise players coming up in the draft (Doncic among them, but very good players aside of him). They didn’t do it then and now it is what it is. If they suck despite trying to be competitive they’ll get their chances at a high draft pick. I have accepted this is what they are post Timmy. They have the chance to luck into a franchise player or maybe one of their guys would develop into one. Either way they chose not to bottom out. It may happen to them regardless, players falling off a cliff, injuries, youth being overrated and unable to deliver. Or they may over perform expectations— which would be great to see.

It is what it is. They won’t change their approach without a change in management.

Big picture, I agree with this too. They bungled not Kawhi but how to move forward after realizing they had to trade him. The last two seasons have been awful, but I’m actually excited they are finally accepting reality. The Bubble was awesome. More of that, please.

[John B]

By the end of the day, Spurs have arguably the best defensive back court in the league. We have athletic youth in each position, and a possible all-star in Keldon and Vassell, facing a huge salary cap space next season. I think PATFO has done it again, while folks in ST keeps on bitchin' :blah

[poopbox]

By the end of the day, Spurs have arguably the best defensive back court in the league. We have athletic youth in each position, and a possible all-star in Keldon and Vassell, facing a huge salary cap space next season. I think PATFO has done it again, while folks in ST keeps on bitchin' :blah

Possible all stars in two players where one has barely played and the other hasn't played at all :rollin

I'm optimistic but's let's let the kids swim in the deep end first before we start crowning them:rollin

[John B]

Possible all stars in two players where one has barely played and the other hasn't played at all :rollin

I'm optimistic but's let's let the kids swim in the deep end first before we start crowning them:rollin
At 6'7 with 6'10 wingspan and possibly the best 3 and D in the draft, Vassell will be an All-Star in that SG position :lol
It's tougher for Keldon to get in in that SF/PF position with Kawhi, Lebron, Davis, PG, Zion, Porzingis, but he's a workhorse and the kid will get there eventually. :lol

[Sugus]

I agree with this. Pop is going to play young players at a fast pace this season. The skies have parted. I love our young players. Just enjoy the slow rebuild. Did I want one of LA or DD gone? Absolutely. But the way Pop has put the vets in line with the new approach is sort of amazing. I’ll take it. And honestly, I think Brian Wright may be a voice of reason compared to the usual approach if prioritizing vets at every moment, so to speak.

Exactly. I'm not gonna say I didn't want either DD or LMA gone, but until we see the results, bashing the FO just because they aren't following your personal plan to get back to contention is just naive. I see the Dude falling prey to this as well sometimes. There's a lot of ways you can develop a championship contending core, and for better or worse (historically, for better...), the Spurs have their own way of doing things. Sometimes it's a lot slower than fans would want, but it also leads to situations like '14, where patience and grind allow for results that an instant blow-up wouldn't.

IF the vets all buy in, and it's a big IF, this is actually a very solid team. We are deep, we are young at every position, we've replaced all defensive liabilities (sans Mills) for plus defenders, and there's a good amount of vets that are on that good point of still being serviceable, but also acknowledging that they're not the focus anymore, and can shift to a mentorship position. I don't know if this plan by the Spurs will ever turn into a championship, but it's a damn better plan than what other teams are doing.

Also, let's not forget, if all fails, we'll have a great chance to draft Bronnie Jr in a year or two! Couldn't be better.

[Rummpd]

Is this going to be your new shtick? Don't people in this forum ever find funnier shticks to cling on to? I can appreciate the Kawhi slurpers and TDS because at least they're a breath of fresh air from the normal doom-and-gloom, everything's bad as can be, usual suspects.

Straight out of the "made up quotes", you want the Spurs to blow it up and go with youth. What are they doing now? Do you understand there cannot be a team that is exclusively filled with young players, because of the leadership and experience vacuum it creates? Would you rather the Spurs ship out all 4 (!) remaining vets that they have, and just have the young core running around like headless chickens, no guide, no mentor, no passing-of-the-torch, nothing? How has that worked for Sacramento, or Phoenix? I'll have to pass.

It's funny, because for years, people have been clamoring for a youth movement, to drop the vets, to rebuild. Now, every sign is pointing in that direction, even the vets are saying they're happy to take a step back and just mentor the kids as they let them go to work - and people are still complaining about it. Well, you specifically, at least, before the season even starts. Yeah, we get it, Spurs FO hasn't been up to your wacky standards since the last time they created a championship caliber roster (oh! the horror!) - is that all your internet persona is going to distillate to?

Boring.


E: wait, I'll give you the old timer's benefit, since I wasn't around to see your previous shtick. Or has this always been your thing, bashing the FO since '04? Must get tiresome :lol

I have been a Spurs fan (and paid NBA writer in past) and very loyal for decades but the FO by any measure is a huge fail these days - read multiple analysts on the mismatch that is this team. I am not expecting a miracle but something better than has occurred with this HOF coach and FO. To defend the lack of any action by the FO with two aging and misaligned stars is truly sublime. Spurs have some young and old talent but it is unlikely to lead to anything except hovering around the last PO spot (and likely missing) which must be good enough for you?

[XDT76]

It is what it is. I definitely wanted the tankathon once Kawhi bailed on the team and the big 3 were no more. It was the perfect moment and there were a few promising potential franchise players coming up in the draft (Doncic among them, but very good players aside of him). They didn’t do it then and now it is what it is. If they suck despite trying to be competitive they’ll get their chances at a high draft pick. I have accepted this is what they are post Timmy. They have the chance to luck into a franchise player or maybe one of their guys would develop into one. Either way they chose not to bottom out. It may happen to them regardless, players falling off a cliff, injuries, youth being overrated and unable to deliver. Or they may over perform expectations— which would be great to see.

It is what it is. They won’t change their approach without a change in management.

Tanking is not the solution for the past 20 years there is only 1 no. 1 pick who won the NBA champion within 5 years and that is Irving and he did it because Lebron James went back and Kevin Love joined them. As SA is not a premier FA destination it will not work for us. Tim is an exception and not a norm as DRob and Sean (both All stars) were injured the year before he was drafted and thus we could reach a championship quickly. We have no one on the roster to help any high lottery pick achieve the championship quickly the more likely scenario is he will bolt after his rookie contract as he will be hyped up so much that he either demand a trade or force the team to destroy their future.

[Rummpd]

I agree with this. Pop is going to play young players at a fast pace this season. The skies have parted. I love our young players. Just enjoy the slow rebuild. Did I want one of LA or DD gone? Absolutely. But the way Pop has put the vets in line with the new approach is sort of amazing. I’ll take it. And honestly, I think Brian Wright may be a voice of reason compared to the usual approach if prioritizing vets at every moment, so to speak.



I honestly hope I am wrong on FO and this team. Perhaps a miracle will occur and White and Murray will suddenly become stars, DDR and DA will revive and Pop will return to being a true HOF coach - if so great.

[jjktkk]

I honestly hope I am wrong on FO and this team. Perhaps a miracle will occur and White and Murray will suddenly become stars, DDR and DA will revive and Pop will return to being a true HOF coach - if so great.

Given that is impossible for S.A. to lure free agents and the fact that they have perennially drafted in the 1st round for several years now, what should PATFO do? You never seem to come up with any ideas.

[Rummpd]

Given that is impossible for S.A. to lure free agents and the fact that they have perennially drafted in the 1st round for several years now, what should PATFO do? You never seem to come up with any ideas.

You know what they should do is put both so called stars out to be traded - oh wait that should have happened months ago. They then to make matters worse signed their own limited players again. Farce to this point.

[Prime BEEF]

You know what they should do is put both so called stars out to be traded - oh wait that should have happened months ago. They then to make matters worse signed their own limited players again. Farce to this point.
Yes very disappointing but not unexpected. Think DDR and LMA both leave in offseason. The spurs will have lots of money with no all-star FAs wanting to sign here. If we get one we no doubt will have to overpay

[Rummpd]

Yes very disappointing but not unexpected. Think DDR and LMA both leave in offseason. The spurs will have lots of money with no all-star FAs wanting to sign here. If we get one we no doubt will have to overpay

Truth just like current Spurs FO to get nothing in return at end of contracts.

[exstatic]

Truth just like current Spurs FO to get nothing in return at end of contracts.

There’s no other way to clear cap room, either for FAs, or for the young players who are reaching second contract status. We’ve made 6 first round picks in the last 5 years, and only paid one of them. If we can get similar contracts for the others, the four big ending contracts should about cover that cost.

[lefty]

Our only hope is to draft a Tim Duncan type of player, not ncessarily a big man but a team oriented franchise player who is ok with living in Fat Antonio

And those type of players don't come around often :lol

[Sugus]

I have been a Spurs fan (and paid NBA writer in past) and very loyal for decades but the FO by any measure is a huge fail these days - read multiple analysts on the mismatch that is this team. I am not expecting a miracle but something better than has occurred with this HOF coach and FO. To defend the lack of any action by the FO with two aging and misaligned stars is truly sublime. Spurs have some young and old talent but it is unlikely to lead to anything except hovering around the last PO spot (and likely missing) which must be good enough for you?

Re-reading my comment, it came across as unnecessarily hostile. I apologize.

I guess it boils down to what I consider "spoiled fan syndrome". If you told any fan of any of the other 29 teams that they'll be guaranteed to getting two decades of consistent, seemingly-never-ending success, championships, and as good a memories as you can get from sports, but then they have to suffer through a few years of mediocrity or outright bad-ness - I'm pretty certain that they'd be ecstatic, and would take the later sucky years as just a natural part of the process, something that reminds you to be grateful for what you have and had. The Spurs, though slowly, are on a clear rebuilding trajectory, and have made a lot of moves (whether you like them or think they were the best that could've been done, is another story) in order to continue that rebuilding trajectory and build on it, in the last two years especially. At some point, you just have to ask: what is enough? What are your expectations? Maybe define that, and we can go from there.

But to answer your question, yes, this is good enough for me. The team has jettisonned every player I disliked watching from last season, and has accumulated a good number of young prospects, and now we just have to watch whether they mesh together, which ones take a step forward, or backwards, and so. Later on, Spurs FO will have to decide which ones are good enough to keep, and which ones to trade, and keep trying until they hit a diamond in the rough, which is more or less the natural rebuilding process when you don't have a Timmy D on the roster. I ask you, seriously - as an overarching plan, is this not good enough for you? What do you expect a small-market, middle-of-nowhere team like SanAn to be doing differently? The only complaint I've seen from you ITT that I can get behind is that they "haven't traded the vets", whom, by all accounts, were on the block repeatedly, and will be on the block again by the trade deadline. I've said already that I WOULDN'T trade LMA for a second round pick, aka, there's more value in a vet's presence than a bad return from them, and I'm sure the Spurs FO share this mindset and thus didn't "fire sale" DD/LMA/Patty/Rudy. Is there anything else?

I've told this to TD 21, and didn't mean it in a bad way then and I don't now - but you'd do good to go root for the Knicks or Sacramento for a year or two, then come back to the Spurs and see how it is. I feel like many Spurs fans are so accustomed to success, that they can't envision the "other side of the coin", where FOs are truly inept (not "giving a vet a bad contract" inept, more like "passing on a lottery generational talent for an injury prone, second-jumping big" inept - can you begin to imagine the meltdown here?), or repeatedly try strategies that are obviously not going to work and end up wasting entire seasons on end, and so on. The Spurs are a relatively quite easy team to follow, in my opinion and from watching not only Spurs games, but a lot of other teams' during the season.

Just my 2cents, my guy.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

i believe in pop

[duncan2k5]

Imagine having two supposed aging but potentially trade-able stars and a HOF coach and this motley poorly assembled lot of players is what going forward with? Got a decent draft choice and a few younger erratic pieces to build on but any one believing this FO has stepped up and trying to really improve over next few years is being deceived. Spurs FO and coach just wants to feel being even in contention to make playoffs is good enough. Should have blown it up and gone with youth and got draft choices ala OKC as teams like Suns NO and Portland making savvy moves while SAS FO is a joke. That is the bottom line - welcome to the 34 and 38 2020-21 nothing to write home about Spurs.

Exactly... finally someone on this forum gets it