The Athletic: Kawhi Leonard ruined the Clippers locker room/culture

[KaiRMD1]

What a fucking douchebag. Maybe uncle isn't the source of his asshattery after all.

I'm actually starting to realize that now

[buttsR4rebounding]

Hell Manu returned after breaking his nose :lol

Manu returned after breaking his arm.

[SpurPadre]

Hell Manu returned after breaking his nose :lol

Manu also played with a torn sac lol. He's too classy to ever call him out, but I'm sure Manu thinks Load Management is the biggest pussy of all-time.

[Ice009]

Clippers with only20 points with 3 minutes left in the half? Yikes!

But yeah if all KL needed was stitches then he should be playing I have seen players play the next game with worse, but he is a pampered pussie

Manu's gone out there with a broken arm, also, didn't Manu get a broken nose against the Mavericks in a playoff game via a Dirk elbow and finish out that game without even a mask? I'm sure I recall him going to the locker room and then coming back out not too long after (I don't think he even took a whole quarter off)?


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SelfassuredUnsightlyBlacklemur-size_restricted.gif

Right next to the mother of his child. What an asshole

Is this a legit video? And is that really his kid's mom next to him? Maybe she's just as twisted as he is?

[timtonymanu]

Manu's gone out there with a broken arm, also, didn't Manu get a broken nose against the Mavericks in a playoff game via a Dirk elbow and finish out that game without even a mask? I'm sure I recall him going to the locker room and then coming back out not too long after (I don't think he even took a whole quarter off)?

Yep I mentioned that earlier. I still remember how crooked his nose looked but he still played. Nephew would have left the game and missed at least 2 weeks or whatever load management BS he would have done.

Manu and Tony didn't sugarcoat it. Hell, even Tony would come back sooner from more serious looking injuries. They knew Nephew was a fragile pussy.

[Ice009]

Yep I mentioned that earlier. I still remember how crooked his nose looked but he still played. Nephew would have left the game and missed at least 2 weeks or whatever load management BS he would have done.

Manu and Tony didn't sugarcoat it. Hell, even Tony would come back sooner from more serious looking injuries. They knew Nephew was a fragile pussy.

Thanks. I read your post after I posted as I hadn't gotten than far down the thread yet. I am really thinking that Manu had the toughest time with Kawhi sitting out games. I am starting to think Manu was probably beside himself seeing him sit out, and probably wanted to call him out every single day by asking him why the fuck he is not playing.

[timtonymanu]

Thanks. I read you post after I posted as I hadn't gotten than far down the thread yet. I am really thinking that Manu had the toughest time with Kawhi sitting out games. I am starting to think Manu was probably beside himself seeing him sit out, and probably wanted to call him out every single day by asking him why the fuck he is not playing.

Yep and you had Kiwitards saying that Manu and Tony pushed Nephew away from the team. But seeing all the reports now how he acts with the Clippers, you know it was a lot worse in that lockerroom with Nephew than was originally reported.

Rudy especially looks like he can't stand Nephew and all the lockerroom issues he caused.

[Ice009]

Yep and you had Kiwitards saying that Manu and Tony pushed Nephew away from the team. But seeing all the reports now how he acts with the Clippers, you know it was a lot worse in that lockerroom with Nephew than was originally reported.

I wonder if Timvp knows a little about what was going on around in the locker room at the time. I'd love for him to tell us what he has heard, but obviously I don't want him losing credentials. I guess we will never know.

[NameLess Scrub]

It's kind of funny to see K Leonard and L Kennard on the same team.

That's about as close as I will ever get to using Number Two's actual name. He's still an asshole.

I agree. It’s funny

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I broke up with this girl about 15 years ago. To this day she follows me around on social media and goes on angry rants particularly if she sees me talking to a woman.

I know why I made a impression on her but you guys are reminding me of her still worried about Leonard four years later.

Time to let go and move on. He wanted to go somewhere else and that is okay. Season started.

[Seventyniner]

I broke up with this girl about 15 years ago. To this day she follows me around on social media and goes on angry rants particularly if she sees me talking to a woman.

I know why I made a impression on her but you guys are reminding me of her still worried about Leonard four years later.

Time to let go and move on. He wanted to go somewhere else and that is okay. Season started.

I still support putting all Number Two-related stuff into one containment thread. Let whoever wants to talk about him do it there and leave the rest of the board free from it.

[TD 21]

I broke up with this girl about 15 years ago. To this day she follows me around on social media and goes on angry rants particularly if she sees me talking to a woman.

I know why I made a impression on her but you guys are reminding me of her still worried about Leonard four years later.

Time to let go and move on. He wanted to go somewhere else and that is okay. Season started.

It would have been had he handled it like a professional, instead of stealing roughly $18.6M, withholding medical information, hiding cross country and having his sleazebag uncle attempt to destroy the Spurs hard earned reputation with mostly red herrings as to why he wanted out, culminating in them receiving cents on the dollar and being set back probably a generation.

[K...]

I remember 25 years ago there was this guy jordan, best of his day, but cmon let it go, time to move on........Leonard is a top 5 player, he's worthy of discussion

[tonight...you]

It would have been had he handled it like a professional, instead of stealing roughly $18.6M, withholding medical information, hiding cross country and having his sleazebag uncle attempt to destroy the Spurs hard earned reputation with mostly red herrings as to why he wanted out, culminating in them receiving cents on the dollar and being set back probably a generation.
Preach Preachah!

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It would have been had he handled it like a professional, instead of stealing roughly $18.6M, withholding medical information, hiding cross country and having his sleazebag uncle attempt to destroy the Spurs hard earned reputation with mostly red herrings as to why he wanted out, culminating in them receiving cents on the dollar and being set back probably a generation.

Okay, so what is the point of holding on?

[phxspurfan]

Leonard is a top 5 player, he's worthy of discussion

In 2020/2021 (not 2019...)

TIER I

LeBron
Giannis
AD
Durant
Lillard
Harden
Westbrook
Jimmy Butler
...

TIER II

Jokic
Doncic
Ja Morant (?)
Donovan Mitchell (?)
Kyrie Irving (?)
Jamal Murray (?)

...
TIER III

Kawhi
Curry
Beal
Wall
Trae Young
Mike Conley
Tatum
Brown
Embiid
Simmons
Zion
D Booker
Karl Towns
SGA
DeRozan
Oladipo
Paul George
BI
Hield
Fox




tbh


He's top 20. Along with Paul George, John Wall, Bradley Beal, etc.


I mean fuck. CJ McCollum has been far better this year so far.

[Spur20]

What’s this list based on? Winners? Lillard...Westbrook are horrible choices for a tier one. Give me Jokic...Doncic any day over those two. If we’re talking empty calorie, stat-padders, you are correct... they belong tier one.

[TD 21]

Okay, so what is the point of holding on?

I get it, it's just tough to think or talk about this team and the state of it in recent years and overlook by far the biggest reason for it. It's the proverbial elephant in the room.

[John B]

I get it, it's just tough to think or talk about this team and the state of it in recent years and overlook by far the biggest reason for it. It's the proverbial elephant in the room.
It's the thought of WHAT IF. Hey, I'm not even over with Scola. Seriously he could've been out ticket to b2b, banging with Dirk, Gasol, Randolph. Scola was the biggest WHAT IF for me.

[TD 21]

It's the thought of WHAT IF. Hey, I'm not even over with Scola. Seriously he could've been out ticket to b2b, banging with Dirk, Gasol, Randolph. Scola was the biggest WHAT IF for me.

If he didn't want out, the Bertans giveaway (because Morris/Carroll were essentially in response to the need for a 3 and D forward) doesn't happen and given the state of the Warriors, they probably win the '19 championship.

But for me, it's not even that. It's the feeling of being cheated out of commensurate value.

[John B]

If he didn't want out, the Bertans giveaway (because Morris/Carroll were essentially in response to the need for a 3 and D forward) doesn't happen and given the state of the Warriors, they probably win the '19 championship.

But for me, it's not even that. It's the feeling of being cheated out of commensurate value.
But FO didn't handle it well also. And I hate that they always do 'the right thing.' I mean they should've known that Demar wouldn't fit the modern NBA?? Or wasn't #2 offered that could've gotten us Doncic? Damn, I would've included any of Murray/White/Lonnie and the Coyote to get that deal in retrospect.

[daslicer]

But FO didn't handle it well also. And I hate that they always do 'the right thing.' I mean they should've known that Demar wouldn't fit the modern NBA?? Or wasn't #2 offered that could've gotten us Doncic? Damn, I would've included any of Murray/White/Lonnie and the Coyote to get that deal in retrospect.

No team was going to give the Spurs a top lottery pick for Kawhi especially once he made it clear that he was not going to resign with any team since he wanted to go to LA. It drives me nuts when people keep believing that the Suns or Kings were going to be stupid enough to trade their top 2 pick for Kawhi who was screaming "I will not play anywhere besides LA."

[exstatic]

But FO didn't handle it well also. And I hate that they always do 'the right thing.' I mean they should've known that Demar wouldn't fit the modern NBA?? Or wasn't #2 offered that could've gotten us Doncic? Damn, I would've included any of Murray/White/Lonnie and the Coyote to get that deal in retrospect.

The Sacto pick, that eventually became Doncic, was nothing more than a rumor, started by some needy Sacto scribe who wanted Kawhi. It’s as much fiction as Ball/Hart/Ingram.

[Sugus]

It's the thought of WHAT IF. Hey, I'm not even over with Scola. Seriously he could've been out ticket to b2b, banging with Dirk, Gasol, Randolph. Scola was the biggest WHAT IF for me.

Man, I'm with you so hard on this one. I watched Scola playing, live, in his prime (I have two sets of sneakers and a Manu shirt (:lol) with his autograph on them). Guy was (and surprisingly still kind of is) an absolute beast. Great teammate as well, he could've contributed a lot of things to those Spurs.

[daslicer]

I broke up with this girl about 15 years ago. To this day she follows me around on social media and goes on angry rants particularly if she sees me talking to a woman.

I know why I made a impression on her but you guys are reminding me of her still worried about Leonard four years later.

Time to let go and move on. He wanted to go somewhere else and that is okay. Season started.

I have gotten over it but I understand why other people on here are still upset and will probably never get over it. I think your relationship example is not a good analogy to what Kawhi did. Breakups hurt if you are the one that's been dumped but if you are a mentally healthy person you can bounce back from it within a few months to a year. What Kawhi did is more like some guy who has scammed you out of all of your life savings. A lot of people who have lost it all financially through a scam rarely ever recover and remain bitter for years which I give them a pass for.

A lot spur fans will be bitter for a very long time until the Spurs are a title contender again because that's what they were with Kawhi. Who knows when the Spurs will be a title contender again that could happen in 5 year or it could happen in 30 years. Look at the Bucks it took their fan base close to 50 years before they forgave Kareem for the crap he pulled back in the 70's in forcing a trade to the Lakers. They can forgive now that they have an MVP caliber player in Giannis.

[TD 21]

But FO didn't handle it well also. And I hate that they always do 'the right thing.' I mean they should've known that Demar wouldn't fit the modern NBA?? Or wasn't #2 offered that could've gotten us Doncic? Damn, I would've included any of Murray/White/Lonnie and the Coyote to get that deal in retrospect.

Yeah, there's no excuse for them accepting the deal they ultimately did. If the Raptors, who were going to make out like bandits either way, wouldn't at least accept Gasol instead of Green, then screw them.

I don't think the Spurs cared about DeRozan's place in the modern NBA. They were between a rock and a hard place and knew him + Aldridge would buy them time until they hopefully came up with a better centerpiece/direction. Plus, he was an all important cultural fit.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I have gotten over it but I understand why other people on here are still upset and will probably never get over it. I think your relationship example is not a good analogy to what Kawhi did. Breakups hurt if you are the one that's been dumped but if you are a mentally healthy person you can bounce back from it within a few months to a year. What Kawhi did is more like some guy who has scammed you out of all of your life savings. A lot of people who have lost it all financially through a scam rarely ever recover and remain bitter for years which I give them a pass for.

A lot spur fans will be bitter for a very long time until the Spurs are a title contender again because that's what they were with Kawhi. Who knows when the Spurs will be a title contender again that could happen in 5 year or it could happen in 30 years. Look at the Bucks it took their fan base close to 50 years before they forgave Kareem for the crap he pulled back in the 70's in forcing a trade to the Lakers. They can forgive now that they have an MVP caliber player in Giannis.

That is fair but he was going to leave either way. I don't think the Spurs lost face in the NBA as a whole and in terms of real assets what more could we have gotten had he not acted like a child on the way out?

We wouldn't have been negotiating from a position of strength in trading him either way.

[daslicer]

That is fair but he was going to leave either way. I don't think the Spurs lost face in the NBA as a whole and in terms of real assets what more could we have gotten had he not acted like a child on the way out?

We wouldn't have been negotiating from a position of strength in trading him either way.

Agreed he was going to leave anyways. He harmed the Spurs in the sense of not telling them in the summer of '17 that he wanted out. It would have given the Spurs an opportunity to get better deals since more teams would be willing to take a risk on him since he would have 2 more years left. He also dicked the Spurs over by screaming LA was the only option. As much as Harden is a douchebag I give him respect in this sense that he has several teams he wants to go to and has a few more years left on his contract which is both helpful to Houston in getting a good deal for him.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Agreed he was going to leave anyways. He harmed the Spurs in the sense of not telling them in the summer of '17 that he wanted out. It would have given the Spurs an opportunity to get better deals since more teams would be willing to take a risk on him since he would have 2 more years left. He also dicked the Spurs over by screaming LA was the only option. As much as Harden is a douchebag I give him respect in this sense that he has several teams he wants to go to and has a few more years left on his contract which is both helpful to Houston in getting a good deal for him.

I just don't see the point on crying over spilled milk.

[daslicer]

I just don't see the point on crying over spilled milk.

I responded to you saying "I don't think the Spurs lost face in the NBA as a whole and in terms of real assets what more could we have gotten had he not acted like a child on the way out?" I illustrated to you how he dicked the spurs over from getting a better deal by acting the way he did. Like i said before I'm over it.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I responded to you saying "I don't think the Spurs lost face in the NBA as a whole and in terms of real assets what more could we have gotten had he not acted like a child on the way out?" I illustrated to you how he dicked the spurs over from getting a better deal by acting the way he did. Like i said before I'm over it.

I wasn't referring to just you. And I am not sure i buy your claim about his wanting to go to LA being meaningful considering he needed up being traded to Canada.

At the end of the day it is convenient assumptions about what it could've been when it is in fact unknowable while the season is cranking up and there are exciting young players on the roster.

[Obi Juan Kenobi]

In regards to Scola, same that one hurt for a long time but when we got Diaw that helped make up for it a bit...

[daslicer]

I wasn't referring to just you. And I am not sure i buy your claim about his wanting to go to LA being meaningful considering he needed up being traded to Canada.

At the end of the day it is convenient assumptions about what it could've been when it is in fact unknowable while the season is cranking up and there are exciting young players on the roster.

Just because Kawhi said he wanted to go LA it didn't mean it was impossible to trade him to a different location but what it meant was he would be traded for a shitty return since teams would not want to give up their best assets for a 1 year rental. It was very meaningful since it scared off a lot of teams from offering good value for Kawhi. Even the Raptors trade didn't offer the best value for Kawhi which should have also included Siakam/Anouby for a player of Kawhi's value . Spurs were desperate so they had to take whatever little crumbs were out there.

[weeks]

And now Ibaka ruined Kawhi's face...:lol

SOMEONE LET ABAKA KNOW
HE DOIN 2 MUCH

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Just because Kawhi said he wanted to go LA it didn't mean it was impossible to trade him to a different location but what it meant was he would be traded for a shitty return since teams would not want to give up their best assets for a 1 year rental. It was very meaningful since it scared off a lot of teams from offering good value for Kawhi. Even the Raptors trade didn't offer the best value for Kawhi which should have also included Siakam/Anouby for a player of Kawhi's value . Spurs were desperate so they had to take whatever little crumbs were out there.

The malfeasance was him lying about the medicals and hiding in NY. Him wanting to go to LA and stating so was his prerogative.

And it was never going to be a situation where we could get equal value. This is exactly what I am talking about in terms of convenient assumptions.

[Fusternino]

Again, I'll be that voice to say that there are two teams in LA, and the Spurs should've forced a bidding war between the two. Of course, because of Pop's "princples" of not trading his star player to another team in the West (and a historic rival if the Lakers) the Spurs failed to make the pragmatic decision and harmed themselves in the process.

[Dejounte]

Again, I'll be that voice to say that there are two teams in LA, and the Spurs should've forced a bidding war between the two. Of course, because of Pop's "princples" of not trading his star player to another team in the West (and a historic rival if the Lakers) the Spurs failed to make the pragmatic decision and harmed themselves in the process.

"Harmed themselves in the process"

So what? Ingram or whatever these two organizations had weren't going to make or break the Spurs' championship aspirations. Neither had can't miss talent. How much the Spurs were set back is debatable. There are plenty of avenues to get back on track, a trade with LA didn't HAVE to be it. I'm here yawning over Ingram. Fuck the Lakers.

[Fusternino]

"Harmed themselves in the process"

So what? Ingram or whatever these two organizations had weren't going to make or break the Spurs' championship aspirations. Neither had can't miss talent. How much the Spurs were set back is debatable. There are plenty of avenues to get back on track, a trade with LA didn't HAVE to be it. I'm here yawning over Ingram. Fuck the Lakers.

With our draft history, Ingram/Kuzma/Hart + all available picks/swaps would've been a great haul. (And not giving up Green)

[Dejounte]

With our draft history, Ingram/Kuzma/Hart + all available picks/swaps would've been a great haul. (And not giving up Green)

Still not crying about it. Debatable that it pushes the Spurs *years* ahead where they are now. Kuzma & Hart are nobodies.

[Dancelot]

NBA radio going in raw on kawhi calling him out for missing 2 game because of a cut in his mouth

[daslicer]

"Harmed themselves in the process"

So what? Ingram or whatever these two organizations had weren't going to make or break the Spurs' championship aspirations. Neither had can't miss talent. How much the Spurs were set back is debatable. There are plenty of avenues to get back on track, a trade with LA didn't HAVE to be it. I'm here yawning over Ingram. Fuck the Lakers.

Agreed Ingram is going to have to be an MVP caliber player for several years before I have any regrets on the Spurs not trading for him.

[TD 21]

Definitive superstars: Durant, Doncic, Jokic, Curry, Harden, Scumbag, Davis, James, Antetokounmpo.

Definitive stars: Young, Tatum, Irving, George, Adebayo, Butler, Middleton, Towns, Embiid, Simmons, Booker, Paul, Lillard, Lowry, Gobert, Beal.



Agreed Ingram is going to have to be an MVP caliber player for several years before I have any regrets on the Spurs not trading for him.

That makes no sense. He'd clearly be the best building block on the Spurs at the moment, but if your standard is going to be legit superstar, that could easily take decades to come by.

[daslicer]

Definitive superstars: Durant, Doncic, Jokic, Curry, Harden, Scumbag, Davis, James, Antetokounmpo.

Definitive stars: Young, Tatum, Irving, George, Adebayo, Butler, Middleton, Towns, Embiid, Simmons, Booker, Paul, Lillard, Lowry, Gobert, Beal.




That makes no sense. He'd clearly be the best building block on the Spurs at the moment, but if your standard is going to be legit superstar, that could easily take decades to come by.


Like I said before I'm not going to lose sleep over not having Inrgam. I just don't give a shit.

[Mr. Body]

I'm not sure Ingram is a "best building block" material. Maybe he'll get there, but so far he absolutely disappears when he's needed. He's actually really similar to Anthony Davis in being soft and unreliable, except he's about a third as good.

[gospursgojas]

https://i.ibb.co/tqWmthg/46-F688-CE-F727-45-AD-8-C8-C-9-FFBAE86-B839.webp

Why tf everything he do cringy af. That mask looks straight up for the mentally challenged.

[daslicer]

https://i.ibb.co/tqWmthg/46-F688-CE-F727-45-AD-8-C8-C-9-FFBAE86-B839.webp

Why tf everything he do cringy af. That mask looks straight up for the mentally challenged.

It is appropriate for him since he's mentally challenged.

[Ice009]

Has Kawhi returned? And he's wearing a mask for cut?

[daslicer]

Has Kawhi returned? And he's wearing a mask for cut?

He’s back. The mask is for the cut.

[Ice009]

lol. That is unbelievable. He's going to wear a mask for a cut. Wow. I'd be embarrassed if I were him. You don't want to be showing weakness, but this guy is showing it in spades.

[phxspurfan]

Definitive stars: Young, Tatum, Irving, George, Adebayo, Butler, Middleton, Towns, Embiid, Simmons, Booker, Paul, Lillard, Lowry, Gobert, Beal.

Off the top of my head: Lillard, Jamal Murray, Klay Thompson, Oladipo, Donovan Mitchell all say hello. Your list is inaccurate af.

And Lowry is not a star. If he's a star so is Scrub Ass Draymond Green. And so is DeAaron Fox, among many others. John Wall, Miike Conley, DeRozan, McCollum, Kemba Walker, Middleton, Porzingis, Blake Griffin, Jaylen Brown, Horford, Hayward, Vucevic, Sabonis etc etc etc

[TD 21]

Off the top of my head: Lillard, Jamal Murray, Klay Thompson, Oladipo, Donovan Mitchell all say hello. Your list is inaccurate af.

And Lowry is not a star. If he's a star so is Scrub Ass Draymond Green. And so is DeAaron Fox, among many others. John Wall, Miike Conley, DeRozan, McCollum, Kemba Walker, Middleton, Porzingis, Blake Griffin, Jaylen Brown, Horford, Hayward, Vucevic, Sabonis etc etc etc

My list is "inaccurate af"? :lmao

[Obi Juan Kenobi]

It is appropriate for him since he's mentally challenged.

Should've taken lessons from Rip Hamilton on how to wear a face mask with style...

[DeRozan m8]

[/B]

Like I said before I'm not going to lose sleep over not having Inrgam. I just don't give a shit.

You're in denial...Good for you

Most improved player with a higher ceiling than most players we have....you must be dumb

[Dejounte]

You're in denial...Good for you

Most improved player with a higher ceiling than most players we have....you must be dumb

No one is arguing Ingram's ceiling being higher or lower than any of our current players. Is he a can't miss, generational superstar like LeBron, Kawhi, Giannis, Curry, Kobe, Harden? No? Then he's not worth losing sleep over.

I paid more attention to Ingram in our last game with them and thought, "this guy isn't scary." That's not something I've said for those players I listed above, early in their careers.

[poopbox]

Definitive superstars: Durant, Doncic, Jokic, Curry, Harden, Scumbag, Davis, James, Antetokounmpo.

Definitive stars: Young, Tatum, Irving, George, Adebayo, Butler, Middleton, Towns, Embiid, Simmons, Booker, Paul, Lillard, Lowry, Gobert, Beal.

Superstars are players who by themselves, with no other star level player, could get you to the playoffs

Curry and Davis don't make the cut...AD spent years in NO doing nothing and the warriors have been arguably the worst team in basketball since Klay has been out...


That makes no sense. He'd clearly be the best building block on the Spurs at the moment, but if your standard is going to be legit superstar, that could easily take decades to come by.

[daslicer]

You're in denial...Good for you

Most improved player with a higher ceiling than most players we have....you must be dumb

:lol Says the idiot who has a Derozan screename. Like Dejounte said in his response to you which is Ingram is not on the level of a Lebron,Kawhi,Durant,Giannis. He's not an MVP level player. Sure he has improved but unless he gets to that level I'm not going to lose sleep about not having him since they are ton of 20 point scorers you can draft in this league. They come out every year these days.

[DeRozan m8]

:lol Says the idiot who has a Derozan screename. Like Dejounte said in his response to you which is Ingram is not on the level of a Lebron,Kawhi,Durant,Giannis. He's not an MVP level player. Sure he has improved but unless he gets to that level I'm not going to lose sleep about not having him since they are ton of 20 point scorers you can draft in this league. They come out every year these days.

Lol okay...so you would only settle for a superstar...even though we would be better with him...moronic

I'm not gonna lose sleep, but I'd take a package that included him over one that included DeRozan tbh

[Dejounte]

Lol okay...so you would only settle for a superstar...even though we would be better with him...moronic

I'm not gonna lose sleep, but I'd take a package that included him over one that included DeRozan tbh

To avoid handing the Lakers another dynasty? To prevent giving Nephew what he wants?

A BIG FAT FUCKING YES.

Look beyond the forest to see the trees.

[daslicer]

Lol okay...so you would only settle for a superstar...even though we would be better with him...moronic

I'm not gonna lose sleep, but I'd take a package that included him over one that included DeRozan tbh

Dejounte again echoes how I feel about not doing this deal with his response to you. Nothing moronic about it in the sense teams hardly ever win titles in this league without superstars. It's pretty rare ala spurs in '14 and Pistons in '04.

[TD 21]

Superstars are players who by themselves, with no other star level player, could get you to the playoffs

Curry and Davis don't make the cut...AD spent years in NO doing nothing and the warriors have been arguably the worst team in basketball since Klay has been out...

Based on that absurd standard, Jokic, Harden and James are the only superstars in the league.

Davis was on a perennially injury ravaged, ill fitting roster and the Warriors lost virtually every credible player outside of Curry either through defection or injury.

[poopbox]

Based on that absurd standard, Jokic, Harden and James are the only superstars in the league.

Davis was on a perennially injury ravaged, ill fitting roster and the Warriors lost virtually every credibly player outside of Curry either through defection or injury.

Well being a superstar is an absurd thing to be...so yeah it has an absurd standard...so yeah I would put Harden and James in there...I feel like Jokic could be but he hasn't played with a really bad team to know if he can carry them somewhere or not...but I think if he did he could get them the 8th seed at least...

No way someone like steph is a superstar...he was powerless to stop the warriors from getting killed in the games he played last year...been powerless to do it this year...if he was a superstar they wouldn't be down 20 points all the time to all but the worst teams in the nba AND it took a game winning shot to beat one of those teams...

At any given time their are no more than 5 "superstars" in the entire nba...

[TD 21]

Well being a superstar is an absurd thing to be...so yeah it has an absurd standard...so yeah I would put Harden and James in there...I feel like Jokic could be but he hasn't played with a really bad team to know if he can carry them somewhere or not...but I think if he did he could get them the 8th seed at least...

No way someone like steph is a superstar...he was powerless to stop the warriors from getting killed in the games he played last year...been powerless to do it this year...if he was a superstar they wouldn't be down 20 points all the time to all but the worst teams in the nba AND it took a game winning shot to beat one of those teams...

At any given time their are no more than 5 "superstars" in the entire nba...

I'm all for the high standard, but you've gone a step too far by making it seem as if they've all had equal circumstances, which of course is not true. Some haven't even had the opportunity to do what you say.

Jokic hasn't had a legit second star. Harden mostly has, although through injuries to them he's had to do his share of carrying.

Curry played 5 games last season and they had a G-League roster surrounding him. This year they've graduated to a bad NBA roster surrounding him.

[poopbox]

I'm all for the high standard, but you've gone a step too far by making it seem as if they've all had equal circumstances, which of course is not true. Some haven't even had the opportunity to do what you say.

Jokic hasn't had a legit second star. Harden mostly has, although through injuries to them he's had to do his share of carrying.

Curry played 5 games last season and they had a G-League roster surrounding him. This year they've graduated to a bad NBA roster surrounding him.

Draymond and D angelo made all star teams. Not possible to have a g league roster when you literally have guys who played in the all star game on your team.

The warriors roster is not good...but it is good enough that they should not be getting blown out by every team other than detriot and chicago, which might be the two worst teams in the league. They have nba level talent on that time. Wiseman is nba level talent, Wiggins is nba level talent, Oubre is nba level talent. Draymond...draymond might not be nba level talent now :lol

I also blame Kerr more than I blame Steph for them being so bad. But if steph was that good...I just don't think the warriors could possibly be this bad...

And hey maybe I am wrong... Oubre actually making open shots would go a long way in helping them win a game...

[Sugus]

No way someone like steph is a superstar...

Curry is unequivocally a superstar, my guy. There's levels to stardom, and in most cases, it goes beyond on-court production, both in the good way (players like Jordan having an image and popularity far exceeding their accomplishments in basketball) and the bad way (players (I won't say like Curry though - Iverson is a better example in my mind) who are icons of the game despite a lacking on-court product). As a matter of fact, I'd hesitate calling Jokic a "superstar", for the same reasons that you say there can only be about 5 at any given time on the league... But any way you define it, Curry is a superstar. He's changed the game, he's massively known and popular, he's infinitely influenced a new generation of players.

[TD 21]

Draymond and D angelo made all star teams. Not possible to have a g league roster when you literally have guys who played in the all star game on your team.

The warriors roster is not good...but it is good enough that they should not be getting blown out by every team other than detriot and chicago, which might be the two worst teams in the league. They have nba level talent on that time. Wiseman is nba level talent, Wiggins is nba level talent, Oubre is nba level talent. Draymond...draymond might not be nba level talent now :lol

I also blame Kerr more than I blame Steph for them being so bad. But if steph was that good...I just don't think the warriors could possibly be this bad...

And hey maybe I am wrong... Oubre actually making open shots would go a long way in helping them win a game...

Green played 43 games and was not playing at an All-Star level, meanwhile Russell is a classic case of circumstances conspiring to make him a one time All-Star, but he's never truly been that caliber of player.

So now you're basing this off of a few random games?

Curry is that good and the team is that bad.