Lakers: SI list per usual far better BSPN 51-100 and few Spurs or Fakers featured [Archive]

lefty

12-16-2020, 01:49 PM

92-93 1st team All-NBA

Mark Price, Cleveland Cavaliers

90s NBA :lol

The other day when watching YouTube I found out my plumber Mark was the starting PG for the Cavs in the 90s; at first I wasn't sure it was him because there was no HD back then and as we all know everything was shittier back then, which is normal because of evolution - a basic concept old heads and Jordan nut huggers can't understand - so I called Mark and asked him but he said he never played in the NBA, told me : "me, the short unathletic white guy with the cuck smile and the Lady Diana haircut, an NBA all star?"

But I know Mark, he is a very humble guy, so I called his brother and Price Plumbing Company associate Brent who, get this, ALSO HAPPENED TO PLAY IN THE NBA in the 90s! What are the odds? :wow
Anyway, Brent confirmed the Cavs starting PG was indeed his brother

Nice people tbh, I think I'm gonna get them the complete Partridge Family DVD set for Christmas

Dirks_Finale

12-16-2020, 05:14 PM

Mark Price - 1 of like 5 players in the 50-40-90 club. Same company as Dirk, Durant and Curry... yeah he sucks. :lol

lefty

12-16-2020, 07:01 PM

Steph Curry would have been in the 100-100-100 club if he played against those pathetic crackers tbh :lol

Neo.

12-16-2020, 09:46 PM

Mark Price - 1 of like 5 players in the 50-40-90 club. Same company as Dirk, Durant and Curry... yeah he sucks. :lol

who said he sucks? no one did. :lmao at you always crying about strawman and you consistently say stuff like this :rollin

anyways, there's no way in his prime he sniffs an all-NBA team these days unless about 15 superior players are hurt and miss a whole year. especially if a guy puts up 30/4/9 for a year and doesn't sniff the teams.

ambchang

12-16-2020, 10:29 PM

who said he sucks? no one did. :lmao at you always crying about strawman and you consistently say stuff like this :rollin

anyways, there's no way in his prime he sniffs an all-NBA team these days unless about 15 superior players are hurt and miss a whole year. especially if a guy puts up 30/4/9 for a year and doesn't sniff the teams.

So calling someone a plumber isn’t saying he sucks? Different standards I guess

And fact that some guy can put up those stats couldn’t sniff the nba teams mean how inflated stats are nowadays.

KobesAchilles

12-16-2020, 11:19 PM

Mark Price was a beast. He was kinda my idol growing up bc he was a small going into the teeth of that defense and taking abuse but still giving people the business. His dribbling was insane and he was hella fast too with the ball. The man was a wizard in pic n roll. Also he had the perfect shooting form

FrostKing

12-17-2020, 12:06 AM

Muggsy Bogues > Trae Young

lefty

12-17-2020, 12:19 AM

lefty

12-17-2020, 12:33 AM

60s NBA > 90s NBA

Neo.

12-17-2020, 03:07 AM

So calling someone a plumber isn’t saying he sucks? Different standards I guess

did I call anyone a plumber? please show me. if I did I honestly forgot.

And fact that some guy can put up those stats couldn’t sniff the nba teams mean how inflated stats are nowadays.

yep those average of 3-4 more possessions per game than there were in 92 is very likely the reason why trae didn't make the All-NBA team and mark price made first team. gotta love how those extra few possessions account for a near 12ppg difference between the two guys.

KobesAchilles

12-17-2020, 08:11 AM

did I call anyone a plumber? please show me. if I did I honestly forgot.

yep those average of 3-4 more possessions per game than there were in 92 is very likely the reason why trae didn't make the All-NBA team and mark price made first team. gotta love how those extra few possessions account for a near 12ppg difference between the two guys.
Honestly Trey shoots the ball a lot more than Price. And he shoots a lot more threes than Mark which probably accounts for his point difference more than possessions. But the Cavs and the Hawks play a way different style as well. The offense revolves around Trey and they put Collins for some reason out on the 3 point line even though he sucks at shooting them. Mark had 2 big men that he had to feed in the post and then he got to eat. Just different styles but I think he would be successful today. I mean Steve Nash won back to back MVPs and that wasn’t that long ago era wise.

ambchang

12-17-2020, 08:52 AM

did I call anyone a plumber? please show me. if I did I honestly forgot.

Lefty did though in jest. And you did say nobody said he sucked.

yep those average of 3-4 more possessions per game than there were in 92 is very likely the reason why trae didn't make the All-NBA team and mark price made first team. gotta love how those extra few possessions account for a near 12ppg difference between the two guys.

Because increased possessions is the only way stats can be inflated.

lefty

12-17-2020, 09:07 AM

In jest?

That's a true story bro

Neo.

12-17-2020, 09:21 AM

Lefty did though in jest.

In jest?

That's a true story bro
:lmao now amb is using words that does not mean what he thinks they mean :lmao :lmao

And you did say nobody said he sucked.

did anyone?

Because increased possessions is the only way stats can be inflated.

if you are comparing inflated stats on an individual basis, such as one player simply having more of an opportunity to shoot, that's one thing.

but the specific word you used was "nowadays", which seemed to indicate you were comparing eras. if that's the case, then yes inflated possessions are probably about the only legitimate, factual comparison that exists, while everything else you might try to argue ("no one pl:cryays any defense anymor:crye bc they chang:cryed the rules to help kobe and :cryoppress davey and timmy!!!! :cry :madrun :madrun :madrun") is simply based on opinion one way or the other.

Neo.

12-17-2020, 09:34 AM

Honestly Trey shoots the ball a lot more than Price. And he shoots a lot more threes than Mark which probably accounts for his point difference more than possessions. But the Cavs and the Hawks play a way different style as well. The offense revolves around Trey and they put Collins for some reason out on the 3 point line even though he sucks at shooting them. Mark had 2 big men that he had to feed in the post and then he got to eat. Just different styles but I think he would be successful today. I mean Steve Nash won back to back MVPs and that wasn’t that long ago era wise.

to clarify, I actually liked mark price a lot. I think he would be successful in any era. and I like him a lot more than I like trae young. but they skill levels between the two simply aren't comparable.

I don't believe in trae's playing style at all. I also don't think a team could win a championship with him as the #1. his size simply limits him too much. but to deny that he has an exceptional level of talent and skill would be silly. and to think mark price could have the same level of success even if given the same type of offense would be ridiculous. as solid of a player as he was, he simply had too many limitations compared to modern elite guards.

also to think mark price would have even a chance at making 1st team all NBA in an era rich with fantastic guards like Luka, Harden, Steph, Dame, Butler, Russ, CP3, Kemba, Klay, etc... would just be absurd.

Dirks_Finale

12-17-2020, 09:55 AM

In all fairness - you and lefty are essentially the same entity on this forum :lol

I mean you agree on everything, constantly.

did I call anyone a plumber? please show me. if I did I honestly forgot.

yep those average of 3-4 more possessions per game than there were in 92 is very likely the reason why trae didn't make the All-NBA team and mark price made first team. gotta love how those extra few possessions account for a near 12ppg difference between the two guys.

Dirks_Finale

12-17-2020, 10:03 AM

Yes, and we had talented bigs back then who could post you up and score at will. Now bigs are stretch players who would be lost downlow.

Different game. Better? Depends on perception. But yes, quality guards are more plentiful now. Doesn't detract from Price's ability to shoot the rock well, from anywhere on the floor. What I think it is - is that he is a white dude so people with all their stereotypes assume that he was a bum. (plumber, etc)

to clarify, I actually liked mark price a lot. I think he would be successful in any era. and I like him a lot more than I like trae young. but they skill levels between the two simply aren't comparable.

I don't believe in trae's playing style at all. I also don't think a team could win a championship with him as the #1. his size simply limits him too much. but to deny that he has an exceptional level of talent and skill would be silly. and to think mark price could have the same level of success even if given the same type of offense would be ridiculous. as solid of a player as he was, he simply had too many limitations compared to modern elite guards.

also to think mark price would have even a chance at making 1st team all NBA in an era rich with fantastic guards like Luka, Harden, Steph, Dame, Butler, Russ, CP3, Kemba, Klay, etc... would just be absurd.

lefty

12-17-2020, 10:27 AM

In all fairness - you and lefty are essentially the same entity on this forum :lol

I mean you agree on everything, constantly.

We just both believe in logic instead of media driven narratives :lol

Neo.

12-17-2020, 11:24 AM

Yes, and we had talented bigs back then who could post you up and score at will. Now bigs are stretch players who would be lost downlow.

while there was definitely a stretch where there werent many good bigs in the mid-to-late 00's, there are plenty of talented bigs now too. they simply are not showcased anywhere near as much as they were in the 80s and 90s where basically every offense was ran through the low post out of habit. even crappy post up players had a ton of offense ran through them, simply because it was the norm. additionally with allowing zone defensive schemes to be used, it completely changes how big men are defended, is a big reason why there is far less offense ran out of the low post, and is a big reason why teams with undersized centers (which you frequently joke about) can effectively defend the paint. lets also not fall into the media driven narrative that every 90s big man was dominant down low like Shaq. in fact, most of the top big men in the 90s, operated very similarly to how AD and Joker operates, only without shooting 3s. Ewing, Robinson, Hakeem all were known for facing up and shooting mid range jumpers and/or frequently working out of the high post unless facing a size mismatch. malone was a PnR big, who on switches would then dominate with his size, but when faced with legit defenders would often settle for jumpers.

shaq was simply an anomaly and freak of nature. but no one was anything like him. pretty much any other big man who worked primarily in the low post, did so because they were big and had virtually no other skills.

Different game. Better? Depends on perception. But yes, quality guards are more plentiful now. Doesn't detract from Price's ability to shoot the rock well, from anywhere on the floor. What I think it is - is that he is a white dude so people with all their stereotypes assume that he was a bum. (plumber, etc)

i never said anything to detract from price. i also never assumed any stereotype. ive always thought quite highly of him in fact. he was basically a smaller, and a little less skilled version of steve nash.

KobesAchilles

12-17-2020, 11:51 AM

to clarify, I actually liked mark price a lot. I think he would be successful in any era. and I like him a lot more than I like trae young. but they skill levels between the two simply aren't comparable.

I don't believe in trae's playing style at all. I also don't think a team could win a championship with him as the #1. his size simply limits him too much. but to deny that he has an exceptional level of talent and skill would be silly. and to think mark price could have the same level of success even if given the same type of offense would be ridiculous. as solid of a player as he was, he simply had too many limitations compared to modern elite guards.

also to think mark price would have even a chance at making 1st team all NBA in an era rich with fantastic guards like Luka, Harden, Steph, Dame, Butler, Russ, CP3, Kemba, Klay, etc... would just be absurd.
My thing with Trae is that he plays so damn stupid. He's young and he has talent and can shoot the ball, but has no idea how to really play the game as of yet. His answer to everything is to shoot from further back. They guard him 25 feet out so he shoots from 30. But that style of play freezes out his teammates and gets them out of rhythm. He puts Collins out of position just by his play.

But a lot of that is shitty coaching tbh and that plays a lot into his stupid style. Like why is Dedmon averaging so many shots and shooting so many 3s? Same for Jabari Parker, why is he jacking up 12 shots a game? The entire offense is a mess and I can't help but feel that's partly because Trae can't run a proper one like Mark could. Getting people in spots where they can succeed is the goal of point guards and very few did it better than Mark Price. If Trae had Price's smarts then he would be a monster.

I agree that Mark Price wouldn't be all nba first team, but he would still make a team putting up those kinda stats. Plus his points per game would probably go up to about 20-23ish just because they would coach him to shoot more 3s than he did. Like Trae averages ten 3point FGA per game. That's a ridiculous amount.

Neo.

12-17-2020, 11:58 AM

My thing with Trae is that he plays so damn stupid. He's young and he has talent and can shoot the ball, but has no idea how to really play the game as of yet. His answer to everything is to shoot from further back. They guard him 25 feet out so he shoots from 30. But that style of play freezes out his teammates and gets them out of rhythm. He puts Collins out of position just by his play.

But a lot of that is shitty coaching tbh and that plays a lot into his stupid style. Like why is Dedmon averaging so many shots and shooting so many 3s? Same for Jabari Parker, why is he jacking up 12 shots a game? The entire offense is a mess and I can't help but feel that's partly because Trae can't run a proper one like Mark could. Getting people in spots where they can succeed is the goal of point guards and very few did it better than Mark Price. If Trae had Price's smarts then he would be a monster.

I agree that Mark Price wouldn't be all nba first team, but he would still make a team putting up those kinda stats. Plus his points per game would probably go up to about 20-23ish just because they would coach him to shoot more 3s than he did. Like Trae averages ten 3point FGA per game. That's a ridiculous amount.

tbh my point wasn't really even to compare the two of them. they aren't similar players at all. and if I we're building a team, I'd much rather have price than trae because of many of the things you mentioned.

I only brought up trae because he's a guard who has had exceptional success, popularity, and is incredibly skilled, yet didn't make any All-NBA team, while Price who clearly wouldn't make 1st team All-NBA in the modern NBA (if any at all), made first team in his day (and it wasn't like a Nash situation where his team went from being 29 wins to 62 wins by adding him). the talent levels of the league from about 1991-2003 was pretty low compared to other eras, and especially this era.

Rummpd

12-17-2020, 02:09 PM

https://www.si.com/nba/2020/12/14/top-100-nba-players-2021-daily-cover

Top ten out and LBJ gets 1 even though not deserved.

KobesAchilles

12-17-2020, 04:45 PM

tbh my point wasn't really even to compare the two of them. they aren't similar players at all. and if I we're building a team, I'd much rather have price than trae because of many of the things you mentioned.

I only brought up trae because he's a guard who has had exceptional success, popularity, and is incredibly skilled, yet didn't make any All-NBA team, while Price who clearly wouldn't make 1st team All-NBA in the modern NBA (if any at all), made first team in his day (and it wasn't like a Nash situation where his team went from being 29 wins to 62 wins by adding him). the talent levels of the league from about 1991-2003 was pretty low compared to other eras, and especially this era.
I'm not sure if the talent level was really low as compared to the talent was more towards the big man. I mean Robinson, Barkley, Mailman, Ewing, Hakeem, Shaq, Kemp were pretty elite players. Grant Hill was an elite player too before injuries took their toll along with Scotty. Just to name a few (of course Jordan too :lol )

I agree though it was a weaker time for point guards. Magic and Isiah were shells of themselves or out of the league. And there is a pretty big drop off from Magic and Zeke to Stockton and Price and Kj and Tim Hardaway. Penny was supposed to be that next great point guard and people often forget about that. Like if Penny's career wasn't derailed then that 90's point guard class doesn't look that bad tbh with a young J-Kidd in there as well as the glove

140

12-17-2020, 05:25 PM

Neo.

12-17-2020, 05:31 PM

thats convenient :lmao

not as convenient as saying "the 90s are the best era ever because it had a bunch of greats who would easily win 10 in a row in this era but only couldnt because they faced mike!:madrun:madrun:madrun"

or perhaps many of the 90s stars simply werent as good as people thought they were

thankfully around 2003-2005 guys like kobe, TD, dirk, nash and KG helped lift the talent levels of the league back up as they hit their primes, and then several classes of talent were drafted around the same time

Chucho

12-17-2020, 06:06 PM

Mark Price had more skills than Curry, tbh. He'd be a 3x MVP in Today's NBA.

Chucho

12-17-2020, 06:07 PM

Dirk took Neo's manhood and anal virginity in one fell swoop.

Dirks_Finale

12-17-2020, 06:13 PM

while there was definitely a stretch where there werent many good bigs in the mid-to-late 00's, there are plenty of talented bigs now too. they simply are not showcased anywhere near as much as they were in the 80s and 90s where basically every offense was ran through the low post out of habit. even crappy post up players had a ton of offense ran through them, simply because it was the norm. additionally with allowing zone defensive schemes to be used, it completely changes how big men are defended, is a big reason why there is far less offense ran out of the low post, and is a big reason why teams with undersized centers (which you frequently joke about) can effectively defend the paint. lets also not fall into the media driven narrative that every 90s big man was dominant down low like Shaq. in fact, most of the top big men in the 90s, operated very similarly to how AD and Joker operates, only without shooting 3s. Ewing, Robinson, Hakeem all were known for facing up and shooting mid range jumpers and/or frequently working out of the high post unless facing a size mismatch. malone was a PnR big, who on switches would then dominate with his size, but when faced with legit defenders would often settle for jumpers.

shaq was simply an anomaly and freak of nature. but no one was anything like him. pretty much any other big man who worked primarily in the low post, did so because they were big and had virtually no other skills.

i never said anything to detract from price. i also never assumed any stereotype. ive always thought quite highly of him in fact. he was basically a smaller, and a little less skilled version of steve nash.

This is actually a solid post with many valid points. :tu

When I refer to quality bigs from that era, I am also talking about how they could actually put a body on people and protect the rim on the other end. That's an art form in and of itself because not everyone does/did it well in any era and it's something we see less of now, obviously, because of how much the dynamics of the game has changed with bigs having to step out to defend the 3.

Let me ask you and lefty, or anyone else here who cares to reply - do you get tired of watching 3 point contests every night? I get the value of the 3 point shot now. It has been estimated that in order for a 2 point basket to be as valuable as a 3 in today's game, it needs to be hit at at a 60% clip. So you shoot a bunch of 3's or you lose, basically. Pop has said there is no beauty in this and called it boring. And I agree with him. I'll take a 78-77 Spurs vs Pistons Finals game from 2005 over this current game any day, tbqh.

Dirks_Finale

12-17-2020, 06:20 PM

Dirks_Finale

12-17-2020, 06:22 PM

What would Trae average in the 90's without all the ticky tack fouls?

tbh my point wasn't really even to compare the two of them. they aren't similar players at all. and if I we're building a team, I'd much rather have price than trae because of many of the things you mentioned.

I only brought up trae because he's a guard who has had exceptional success, popularity, and is incredibly skilled, yet didn't make any All-NBA team, while Price who clearly wouldn't make 1st team All-NBA in the modern NBA (if any at all), made first team in his day (and it wasn't like a Nash situation where his team went from being 29 wins to 62 wins by adding him). the talent levels of the league from about 1991-2003 was pretty low compared to other eras, and especially this era.

ambchang

12-17-2020, 06:59 PM

:lmao now amb is using words that does not mean what he thinks they mean :lmao :lmao

did anyone?

So you think lefty really had mark price as his plumber and not saying it as a joke? Sure.

if you are comparing inflated stats on an individual basis, such as one player simply having more of an opportunity to shoot, that's one thing.

but the specific word you used was "nowadays", which seemed to indicate you were comparing eras. if that's the case, then yes inflated possessions are probably about the only legitimate, factual comparison that exists, while everything else you might try to argue ("no one pl:cryays any defense anymor:crye bc they chang:cryed the rules to help kobe and :cryoppress davey and timmy!!!! :cry :madrun :madrun :madrun") is simply based on opinion one way or the other.

No it’s not. Changing systems, rules, defensive focus etc of different eras all have impact on stat inflation.

Neo.

12-17-2020, 07:13 PM

This is actually a solid post with many valid points. :tu

lol condescending much? tbh i am starting to second guess myself if you actually agree considering your history around here of having some of the stupidest opinions ever seen on spurstalk

When I refer to quality bigs from that era, I am also talking about how they could actually put a body on people and protect the rim on the other end. That's an art form in and of itself because not everyone does/did it well in any era and it's something we see less of now, obviously, because of how much the dynamics of the game has changed with bigs having to step out to defend the 3.

so basically they were able to do it because the playing style allowed them to, while the modern playing style wouldn't allow them to do so nearly as effectively. therefore, by your evaluation of "quality bigs" of the 90s, they would be of less quality in the modern game, bringing them to a comparable level of "quality" as other modern bigs - by your aforementioned evaluation that is. got it :tu

Let me ask you and lefty, or anyone else here who cares to reply - do you get tired of watching 3 point contests every night? I get the value of the 3 point shot now. It has been estimated that in order for a 2 point basket to be as valuable as a 3 in today's game, it needs to be hit at at a 60% clip. So you shoot a bunch of 3's or you lose, basically. Pop has said there is no beauty in this and called it boring. And I agree with him. I'll take a 78-77 Spurs vs Pistons Finals game from 2005 over this current game any day, tbqh.

it depends. i loved how golden state played. sure they shot a lot of threes, not just for the sake of shooting them, but because they were exceedingly proficient at it. GS also had a heavy focus on attacking the paint (it is one of stephs most underrated and underappreciated skills) for easy buckets, incredible play-calling, constant off-ball movement, and they did a masterful job of attacking mismatches. id say that the 2014-2016 warriors arguably played the most "beautiful" offense ive ever seen.

however, i do not like how teams like houston or atlanta plays at all. they play stat-padding offensive schemes that works against crappy teams, or good teams that simply dont care much about the regular season.

dallas is another example of a team that launches a lot of 3s, but they have a well executed system that makes them pretty entertaining to watch. Miami is very fun to watch too.

fact is, it comes down to a matter of personal preference. but imo, the issues with todays games are ultimately the same as always. you have a few teams that execute a well ran offense that people love to watch, and the rest of the league is basically boring to watch because they simply aren't that good, or they spam the heck out of whatever system is popular. in the 80s to the mid 90s, most teams would just dump it into the low-post and let them go iso until the defense sends a double team. in the late 90s to early/mid 10s, most teams would just let their best guard/wing go iso from the perimeter. then over the past few years we've seen a transition to outgunning your opponent with 3s. but throughout it all, you had some teams that played a better brand of basketball, and they were always the ones winning championships. so i dont understand why people want to be critical of the modern generation for the same thing that their own generations were guilty of. if someone simply doesnt like the style, so be it. but just because you dont like the style, doesnt mean the players or that the quality is poor. that would be as ridiculous as someone who loves steak complaining about a wagyu steak not being "what im used to" and then saying "its poor quality steak".

What would Trae average in the 90's without all the ticky tack fouls?

:rollin believing ticky tack fouls didnt exist in the 90s when no player has benefitted more in NBA history from ticky tack fouls than the GOAT himself who dominated in the 90s

Neo.

12-17-2020, 07:26 PM

So you think lefty really had mark price as his plumber and not saying it as a joke? Sure.

you compared his saying that to being an accusation that mark price "sucked". but if its in "jest", that would make it a joke. so what makes it immediately mean lefty was inferring "mark price sucks"? i've never understood that saying something "in jest" means "100% serious" or "an absolutely intended insult".

but perhaps you should simply ask him if he thinks mark price sucks since splitting hairs to make your point on this aspect of the conversation seems to mean so much to you.

No it’s not. Changing systems, rules, defensive focus etc of different eras all have impact on stat inflation.

ah yes, but apparently its too illogical that the statistical difference between two players could possibly be a result of one player being far superior to the other :tu

Neo.

12-17-2020, 07:28 PM

And we had those players in previous eras. JWill and Antoine Walker. Back then it drove coaches crazy. Now it is heralded.

yeah except neither of those guys were anywhere near as good of a shooter as a guy like trae is. if they could actually shoot like him, dame, steph or harden, they may well have been heralded like they are

Neo.

12-17-2020, 07:31 PM

Dirk took Neo's manhood and anal virginity in one fell swoop.

go back to crying about how the election was rigged for biden, or whatever other retarded crap you believe in :lmao

ambchang

12-17-2020, 07:40 PM

you compared his saying that to being an accusation that mark price "sucked". but if its in "jest", that would make it a joke. so what makes it immediately mean lefty was inferring "mark price sucks"? i've never understood that saying something "in jest" means "100% serious" or "an absolutely intended insult".

Read what I wrote. I said lefty said Mark Price sucked by saying he is his plumber in jest. Do I have to draw a diagram now? You stupid shit.

but perhaps you should simply ask him if he thinks mark price sucks since splitting hairs to make your point on this aspect of the conversation seems to mean so much to you.

Or maybe you can just go and read.

ah yes, but apparently its too illogical that the statistical difference between two players could possibly be a result of one player being far superior to the other :tu

Did I say that?

Dirks_Finale

12-17-2020, 07:52 PM

lol condescending much? tbh i am starting to second guess myself if you actually agree considering your history around here of having some of the stupidest opinions ever seen on spurstalk

so basically they were able to do it because the playing style allowed them to, while the modern playing style wouldn't allow them to do so nearly as effectively. therefore, by your evaluation of "quality bigs" of the 90s, they would be of less quality in the modern game, bringing them to a comparable level of "quality" as other modern bigs - by your aforementioned evaluation that is. got it :tu

it depends. i loved how golden state played. sure they shot a lot of threes, not just for the sake of shooting them, but because they were exceedingly proficient at it. GS also had a heavy focus on attacking the paint (it is one of stephs most underrated and underappreciated skills) for easy buckets, incredible play-calling, constant off-ball movement, and they did a masterful job of attacking mismatches. id say that the 2014-2016 warriors arguably played the most "beautiful" offense ive ever seen.

however, i do not like how teams like houston or atlanta plays at all. they play stat-padding offensive schemes that works against crappy teams, or good teams that simply dont care much about the regular season.

dallas is another example of a team that launches a lot of 3s, but they have a well executed system that makes them pretty entertaining to watch. Miami is very fun to watch too.

fact is, it comes down to a matter of personal preference. but imo, the issues with todays games are ultimately the same as always. you have a few teams that execute a well ran offense that people love to watch, and the rest of the league is basically boring to watch because they simply aren't that good, or they spam the heck out of whatever system is popular. in the 80s to the mid 90s, most teams would just dump it into the low-post and let them go iso until the defense sends a double team. in the late 90s to early/mid 10s, most teams would just let their best guard/wing go iso from the perimeter. then over the past few years we've seen a transition to outgunning your opponent with 3s. but throughout it all, you had some teams that played a better brand of basketball, and they were always the ones winning championships. so i dont understand why people want to be critical of the modern generation for the same thing that their own generations were guilty of. if someone simply doesnt like the style, so be it. but just because you dont like the style, doesnt mean the players or that the quality is poor. that would be as ridiculous as someone who loves steak complaining about a wagyu steak not being "what im used to" and then saying "its poor quality steak".

:rollin believing ticky tack fouls didnt exist in the 90s when no player has benefitted more in NBA history from ticky tack fouls than the GOAT himself who dominated in the 90s

You don't take compliments very well, I see. :lol

There are no real rivalries, Neo. That makes things interesting.

Why do you think that is? Could it have anything to do with the lack of physicality/chippiness? Star player used to want to rip your head off; now they all want to play together and go for boatrides.

You can mention Cavs/GSW and call it a rivalry - but it never gave me that feel because I had no doubt that if Lebron had the chance he would go suit up for the Warriors or anybody else who had a stacked, ready made title team, tbh.

Dirks_Finale

12-17-2020, 07:52 PM

Read what I wrote. I said lefty said Mark Price sucked by saying he is his plumber in jest. Do I have to draw a diagram now? You stupid shit.

Or maybe you can just go and read.

Did I say that?:lol

Neo.

12-17-2020, 08:46 PM

Read what I wrote. I said lefty said Mark Price sucked by saying he is his plumber in jest. Do I have to draw a diagram now? You stupid shit.

touchy touchy :lmao

Or maybe you can just go and read.

already did. he didnt say mark price sucks. thanks for playing :tu

Did I say that?

never said you did

Neo.

12-17-2020, 08:50 PM

You don't take compliments very well, I see. :lol

nope

There are no real rivalries, Neo. That makes things interesting.

Why do you think that is? Could it have anything to do with the lack of physicality/chippiness? Star player used to want to rip your head off; now they all want to play together and go for boatrides.

because a few guys a years ago did a banana boat together does not mean the league as a whole are buddies

i suppose then mike is guilty of the same stuff for going golfing regularly with other players, regularly gambling with other players, and making a movie with barkley ewing and LJ

You can mention Cavs/GSW and call it a rivalry - but it never gave me that feel because I had no doubt that if Lebron had the chance he would go suit up for the Warriors or anybody else who had a stacked, ready made title team, tbh.

lol ok :tu

ambchang

12-18-2020, 03:29 PM

touchy touchy :lmao

already did. he didnt say mark price sucks. thanks for playing :tu

That's why I already said unless you consider saying an NBA player is a plumber isn't saying he sucks, which apparently you don't. Try to catch up some time.

never said you did

So what was your point?

Neo.

12-18-2020, 03:59 PM

That's why I already said unless you consider saying an NBA player is a plumber isn't saying he sucks, which apparently you don't. Try to catch up some time.

you obviously havent paid much attention to leftys "plumber" shtick when referring to 90s players, and the fact that hes actually complimented some of those players quite a bit even

try to catch up some time

So what was your point?

lets see

trae has exponentially superior stats to mark price

you have attributed it to "inflated stats" nowadays, as a result of changing systems, rules, and defensive focus. among giving all these reasons, nowhere did you mention that trae could simply be a superior talent to mark price. it would appear you do not believe that he is a superior player. but perhaps you do.

enjoy proceeding to split more hairs in order to win a sub-argument that no one cares about except for you :toast

Dirks_Finale

12-18-2020, 06:01 PM

Every era has their Cedric Ceballos, empty stat players. Trae falls into that category. Could have better percentages in a more structured offense, but as of right now he's a chucker on a bad team.

you obviously havent paid much attention to leftys "plumber" shtick when referring to 90s players, and the fact that hes actually complimented some of those players quite a bit even

try to catch up some time

lets see

trae has exponentially superior stats to mark price

you have attributed it to "inflated stats" nowadays, as a result of changing systems, rules, and defensive focus. among giving all these reasons, nowhere did you mention that trae could simply be a superior talent to mark price. it would appear you do not believe that he is a superior player. but perhaps you do.

enjoy proceeding to split more hairs in order to win a sub-argument that no one cares about except for you :toast

Neo.

12-18-2020, 06:10 PM

ambchang

12-19-2020, 09:12 AM

you obviously havent paid much attention to leftys "plumber" shtick when referring to 90s players, and the fact that hes actually complimented some of those players quite a bit even

try to catch up some time

:lol calling someone is a plumber isn't to say they suck
lefty's schtick is talking about how Jordan's opposition sucked. How Ehlo was a plumber looking guy, and how Starks was a grocery bagger, and that their defense on Jordan was wildly exaggerated.

lets see

trae has exponentially superior stats to mark price

you have attributed it to "inflated stats" nowadays, as a result of changing systems, rules, and defensive focus. among giving all these reasons, nowhere did you mention that trae could simply be a superior talent to mark price. it would appear you do not believe that he is a superior player. but perhaps you do.

enjoy proceeding to split more hairs in order to win a sub-argument that no one cares about except for you :toast

I don't see Trae being superior at all, because he has the greenlight to shoot on a team with no hope of winning.

Stackhouse had a 30/5/4 season, Michael Adams had a 26/10/2 season, and I won't consider them better seasons than Mark Price's peak.

Trae Young's advanced stats are underwhelming, especially when compared to what his traditional stats look.

And :lol about splitting hairs when you are trying to argue saying an NBA is a plumber, although jokingly, isn't saying he sucked.

i dont disagree

but it doesnt mean trae isnt a clearly more talented and gifted basketball player than mark price

So are you trying to say Trae Young is clearly more talented and gifted basketball player than Mark Price? If so, what is that based on?

Neo.

12-19-2020, 01:33 PM

:lol calling someone is a plumber isn't to say they suck
lefty (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=6896)'s schtick is talking about how Jordan's opposition sucked. How Ehlo was a plumber looking guy, and how Starks was a grocery bagger, and that their defense on Jordan was wildly exaggerated.

compared to being defended and going toe to toe with guys like kawhi, kobe, pierce, etc then sure they "suck", but its pretty obvious hes not saying that they are total trash as players themselves. as mentioned, when he puts aside his trolling schtick, he has given plenty of compliments to jordans competition too. :lol hairsplitting

I don't see Trae being superior at all, because he has the greenlight to shoot on a team with no hope of winning.

Stackhouse had a 30/5/4 season, Michael Adams had a 26/10/2 season, and I won't consider them better seasons than Mark Price's peak.

good for you :tu

Trae Young's advanced stats are underwhelming, especially when compared to what his traditional stats look.

considering how trash his team is, its pretty understandable that his stats are underwhelming, compared to price who was on a very good cleveland team and arguably wasnt even the best player on his team, yet made 1st team All-NBA because the guard position was so devoid of talent in the 90s, which was the point of the whole discussion

And :lol about splitting hairs when you are trying to argue saying an NBA is a plumber, although jokingly, isn't saying he sucked.

normally i would agree, except in leftys case it was obvious trolling and im quite confident he doesnt legitimately believe mark price sucks, based on past posts hes made

So are you trying to say Trae Young is clearly more talented and gifted basketball player than Mark Price? If so, what is that based on?

arguably better all around shooter
clearly more range
clearly better finisher
arguably better passer
clearly better ball handler
more size
more athleticism

im no trae young fan at all, but its pretty clear he has far more talent and gifts than price did. even with a green light like young has, i have a hard time believing price could match it due to the aforementioned. oh, and we are comparing a 2nd year trae, to prime price.

ambchang

12-21-2020, 02:12 PM

compared to being defended and going toe to toe with guys like kawhi, kobe, pierce, etc then sure they "suck", but its pretty obvious hes not saying that they are total trash as players themselves. as mentioned, when he puts aside his trolling schtick, he has given plenty of compliments to jordans competition too. :lol hairsplitting

Saying a player is a plumber isn;t calling him total trash? OK.

good for you :tu

considering how trash his team is, its pretty understandable that his stats are underwhelming, compared to price who was on a very good cleveland team and arguably wasnt even the best player on his team, yet made 1st team All-NBA because the guard position was so devoid of talent in the 90s, which was the point of the whole discussion

No doubt the year Price made All NBA 1st team the PG position was trash, never argued otherwise.

normally i would agree, except in leftys case it was obvious trolling and im quite confident he doesnt legitimately believe mark price sucks, based on past posts hes made

You were saying about splitting hairs?

arguably better all around shooter You can argue, but Price has better 2P%, 3P%, eFG%, FT%, and TS%

clearly more range Changing emphasis in different eras

clearly better finisher why?

arguably better passer why?

clearly better ball handler[quote]why?
[QUOTE=Neo.;10373891]more size so?

more athleticism so?

im no trae young fan at all, but its pretty clear he has far more talent and gifts than price did. even with a green light like young has, i have a hard time believing price could match it due to the aforementioned. oh, and we are comparing a 2nd year trae, to prime price.

2nd year Price was good enough to convince the Cavs to ship Kevin Johnson out.

Neo.

12-21-2020, 02:54 PM

Saying a player is a plumber isn;t calling him total trash? OK.

cool :tu

No doubt the year Price made All NBA 1st team the PG position was trash, never argued otherwise.

cool :tu

You were saying about splitting hairs?

splitting hairs vs substantial evidence that you dont know what youre talking about and are arguing for the sake of arguing

incomparable

You can argue, but Price has better 2P%, 3P%, eFG%, FT%, and TS%

as a guy who got to basically shoot open spot up jumpers and run some PnR plays, compared to a guy who has to do nearly everything offensively for his team

jason kidd had some great 3pt%s for a few years, superior to ray allen. does that make him a better three point shooter than ray allen?

Changing emphasis in different eras

irrelevant

why?
why?
why?

ok :rollin

so?
so?

so greater size and athleticism doesnt generally give players an advantage? particularly when comparing two who play the same position?

2nd year Price was good enough to convince the Cavs to ship Kevin Johnson out.

:lmao apparently a rookie KJ being traded means 2nd year Price => 2nd year Trae

ambchang

12-21-2020, 03:24 PM

cool :tu

cool :tu

splitting hairs vs substantial evidence that you dont know what youre talking about and are arguing for the sake of arguing

incomparable

normally i would agree, except in leftys case it was obvious trolling and im quite confident he doesnt legitimately believe mark price sucks, based on past posts hes made

That's some incredible evidence right there :tu

as a guy who got to basically shoot open spot up jumpers and run some PnR plays, compared to a guy who has to do nearly everything offensively for his team

Mark price was basically shooting open spot up jumpers and run some PnR plays? OK. Great substantial evidence.

jason kidd had some great 3pt%s for a few years, superior to ray allen. does that make him a better three point shooter than ray allen?

I said you can argue. So what's your argument? You brought it up, now show your substantial evidence.

irrelevant Is it more or less irrelevant than Jason Kidd and Ray Allen's 3 pt shooting percentage to whether Trae Young or Mark price as the better shooter?

ok :rollin
Killer evidence.

so greater size and athleticism doesnt generally give players an advantage? particularly when comparing two who play the same position?

did I say that? You did use them to use it as substantial evidence to say that Trae Young is clearly more talented and gifted a basketball player than Mark Price though. Giving an advantage doesn't mean clearly more talented and gifted

:lmao apparently a rookie KJ being traded means 2nd year Price => 2nd year Trae

Did I say that?

Neo.

12-21-2020, 03:58 PM

That's some incredible evidence right there :tu

show your evidence that it was claimed in this thread that mark price sucks

Mark price was basically shooting open spot up jumpers and run some PnR plays? OK. Great substantial evidence.

you're welcome to share your substantial evidence that mark price was superior

I said you can argue. So what's your argument? You brought it up, now show your substantial evidence.

watch some video. you know where to find them.

Is it more or less irrelevant than Jason Kidd and Ray Allen's 3 pt shooting percentage to whether Trae Young or Mark price as the better shooter?

do you consider %s to be absolute evidence of whether a person is a superior shooter to another?

Killer evidence.

feel free to share your counter evidence

did I say that? You did use them to use it as substantial evidence to say that Trae Young is clearly more talented and gifted a basketball player than Mark Price though. Giving an advantage doesn't mean clearly more talented and gifted

did i say you said that? i simply asked a question. do you not believe that size and athleticism factor into the level of talents and gifts a basketball player has?

Did I say that?

did i say you said that? what was your point of even bringing that up? what did it prove?

ambchang

12-22-2020, 05:32 PM

show your evidence that it was claimed in this thread that mark price sucks

So calling someone a plumber isn’t saying he sucks? Different standards I guess.

This was the first thing I wrote.

you're welcome to share your substantial evidence that mark price was superior

I never claimed so, it was you who claimed Trae Young was clearly more talented and gifted.

watch some video. you know where to find them.

You mean these?
-e-Mdy98LAc
E551X8jR38c
Quite a few plays that weren't spot up jumpers or pick and rolls.

do you consider %s to be absolute evidence of whether a person is a superior shooter to another?

Not absolute evidence, better evidence than "lefty once said" though.

it's comical how it was "nobody said" for you, then when it was somebody else, it has to be "substantial evidence" and now "absolute evidence" when you haven't provided shit for the claim you staked.

feel free to share your counter evidence

Counter evidence to "OK :lol"? Maybe you can show some examples.

did i say you said that? i simply asked a question. do you not believe that size and athleticism factor into the level of talents and gifts a basketball player has?

I asked for back up to you saying Trae Young was clearly more talented and gifted than Mark Price as a baskeball player, you stated height and athleticism as that, and continuously go for substantial evidence. How else can I interpret it?

did i say you said that? what was your point of even bringing that up? what did it prove?

You said second year Trae Young, I am saying 2nd year Mark Price was good enough to let Cavs deal away KJ, meaning 2nd year is good enough for Price to show himself as a legit PG.

Neo.

12-22-2020, 07:16 PM

This was the first thing I wrote.

oh okay, so no one said he sucks? got it :tu

I never claimed so, it was you who claimed Trae Young was clearly more talented and gifted.

i never said you claimed he was superior. just that if you think so, then provide your evidence. you did however, say "I don't see Trae being superior at all". so either you believe they are equal as players, or you believe price is superior. what do you believe?

You mean these?
-e-Mdy98LAc
E551X8jR38c
Quite a few plays that weren't spot up jumpers or pick and rolls.

quite a few that were too. in "mixtape" and "highlight" videos :lmao

Not absolute evidence, better evidence than "lefty once said" though.

when did i ever use anything lefty said as evidence in regards to the superiority of a player in this discussion? :lmao if you are actually reaching and misquoting me when talking about his "plumber" shtick to try to make a pointless point :lmao :lmao

it's comical how it was "nobody said" for you, then when it was somebody else, it has to be "substantial evidence" and now "absolute evidence" when you haven't provided shit for the claim you staked.

Counter evidence to "OK :lol"? Maybe you can show some examples.

simply watching basketball is a good starting point for some proof.

it would be one thing if we were comparing whether shaq or timmy was more dominant in the post, as they both were incredibly dominant. its another thing to compare whether mark price or trae young is a more talented basketball player. not even comparable. im not going to waste my time providing examples when most any moron can pull up games on youtube and see it. and this is coming from a guy who was a fan of price and does not care for trae one bit.

I asked for back up to you saying Trae Young was clearly more talented and gifted than Mark Price as a baskeball player, you stated height and athleticism as that, and continuously go for substantial evidence. How else can I interpret it?

do you not believe that size and athleticism factor into the level of talents and gifts a basketball player has?

You said second year Trae Young, I am saying 2nd year Mark Price was good enough to let Cavs deal away KJ, meaning 2nd year is good enough for Price to show himself as a legit PG.

if it had absolutely nothing to do with comparing him to trae young, then why bring it up? or did it have to do with trae young?

regardless, i know you arent going to stop per usual, and i have run out of interest with going back and forth with you per usual. enjoy getting one last reply to this to get your "win", even though you already proved my whole point of the comparison in the first place when you admitted guard competition was weak when price made 1st team all nba :toast

Dirks_Finale

12-22-2020, 10:32 PM

simply watching basketball is a good starting point for some proof.

The irony in this statement is overwhelmingly hilarious :lol

You recently followed me into the political forum claiming that I'm supposedly a "top 10 worst poster" of all time because I have mentioned players not passing the eye test. Now you claim it's evidence ...ok then. Pot meet kettle.

And size and athleticism are legit arguments for Trae over Price. But that's it. The rest of it is subjective. An example - we don't know if Trae actually had better range than Price because Mark didn't take bad shots.

Neo.

12-22-2020, 11:46 PM

The irony in this statement is overwhelmingly hilarious :lol

You recently followed me into the political forum claiming that I'm supposedly a "top 10 worst poster" of all time because I have mentioned players not passing the eye test. Now you claim it's evidence ...ok then. Pot meet kettle.

:lmao crying relentlessly about straw man arguments yet continuing to do them yourself

And size and athleticism are legit arguments for Trae over Price. But that's it. The rest of it is subjective. An example - we don't know if Trae actually had better range than Price because Mark didn't take bad shots.

long threes aren't bad shots if you can hit them consistently enough that defenses are forced to defend it at all times

price never proved he had it. trae has.

literally seeing clear evidence of superiority is not subjective.

comparing whether players would be effective or not in other eras is a completely different argument and very subjective.

ambchang

12-27-2020, 05:16 PM

oh okay, so no one said he sucks? got it :tu

Yeah, I said it in the first response. Just that you enjoy drawing attention to you not being able to read ... for the second time in the same thread.

i never said you claimed he was superior. just that if you think so, then provide your evidence. you did however, say "I don't see Trae being superior at all". so either you believe they are equal as players, or you believe price is superior. what do you believe?

I believe Price's 1st team NBA year was better than Trae's 2nd year. My rationale is that he had better advanced stats in most areas. Is there evidence, no. What evidence? Are we talking about a murder case here?

quite a few that were too. in "mixtape" and "highlight" videos :lmao

So you said he posted those shooting numbers as a spot up shooter and running PnR plays, I posted videos that showed otherwise, including one with highlights throughout the entire game. What's your "evidence" that he did get those numbers? You threw out the assertion, and continuously demanded me proving otherwise while not showing anything to back up your claim.

when did i ever use anything lefty said as evidence in regards to the superiority of a player in this discussion? :lmao if you are actually reaching and misquoting me when talking about his "plumber" shtick to try to make a pointless point :lmao :lmao

You said looked at previous post from lefty, and you didn't quote any of his post. Show your work.

simply watching basketball is a good starting point for some proof.

As contrary to what?

it would be one thing if we were comparing whether shaq or timmy was more dominant in the post, as they both were incredibly dominant. its another thing to compare whether mark price or trae young is a more talented basketball player. not even comparable. im not going to waste my time providing examples when most any moron can pull up games on youtube and see it. and this is coming from a guy who was a fan of price and does not care for trae one bit.

So your evidence is that your claim is self-proving. And yet you are asking for "substantial evidence" and "absolute evidence" when I have shown that Price had better shooting percentage in nearly every measurable category when you claimed Trae being a shooter as argument of Trae being clearly a more talented basketball player.

Yeah, absolutely no irony here.

do you not believe that size and athleticism factor into the level of talents and gifts a basketball player has?

It helps, just like jumping high helps. Didn't help argue Gerald Green was clearly a more talented and gifted basketball player than Steve Nash though.

if it had absolutely nothing to do with comparing him to trae young, then why bring it up? or did it have to do with trae young?

It does have something to do with 2nd year is meaningful though.

regardless, i know you arent going to stop per usual, and i have run out of interest with going back and forth with you per usual. enjoy getting one last reply to this to get your "win", even though you already proved my whole point of the comparison in the first place when you admitted guard competition was weak when price made 1st team all nba :toast

:lol you fall to this "I am not going to respond because I knew my win" shtick every time you get your shit pushed it.

ambchang

12-27-2020, 05:17 PM

:lmao crying relentlessly about straw man arguments yet continuing to do them yourself

long threes aren't bad shots if you can hit them consistently enough that defenses are forced to defend it at all times

price never proved he had it. trae has.

literally seeing clear evidence of superiority is not subjective.

comparing whether players would be effective or not in other eras is a completely different argument and very subjective.

I don't see you throwing those ":cry I ran out of things to argue with your stupid ass arguments" line. So I guess you still think you can argue with Dirk_Finale some more.

Neo.

12-27-2020, 06:35 PM

cool story bro :tu

tldr

endrity

12-28-2020, 06:10 AM

A discussion about the top 100 players in the NBA today develops into an entire thread on ... Mark Price v. Trae Young!!!

You truly never know how these things turn out.

ambchang

12-29-2020, 12:57 PM

:lmao the irony.

cool story bro :tu

tldr

regardless, i know you arent going to stop per usual, and i have run out of interest with going back and forth with you per usual. enjoy getting one last reply to this to get your "win", even though you already proved my whole point of the comparison in the first place when you admitted guard competition was weak when price made 1st team all nba :toast

That was your whole point?

Not sure what these posts were about then:

to clarify, I actually liked mark price a lot. I think he would be successful in any era. and I like him a lot more than I like trae young. but they skill levels between the two simply aren't comparable.

I don't believe in trae's playing style at all. I also don't think a team could win a championship with him as the #1. his size simply limits him too much. but to deny that he has an exceptional level of talent and skill would be silly. and to think mark price could have the same level of success even if given the same type of offense would be ridiculous. as solid of a player as he was, he simply had too many limitations compared to modern elite guards.

also to think mark price would have even a chance at making 1st team all NBA in an era rich with fantastic guards like Luka, Harden, Steph, Dame, Butler, Russ, CP3, Kemba, Klay, etc... would just be absurd.

you obviously havent paid much attention to leftys "plumber" shtick when referring to 90s players, and the fact that hes actually complimented some of those players quite a bit even

try to catch up some time

lets see

trae has exponentially superior stats to mark price

you have attributed it to "inflated stats" nowadays, as a result of changing systems, rules, and defensive focus. among giving all these reasons, nowhere did you mention that trae could simply be a superior talent to mark price. it would appear you do not believe that he is a superior player. but perhaps you do.

enjoy proceeding to split more hairs in order to win a sub-argument that no one cares about except for you :toast