Preseason Grades: Spurs at Rockets - Dec. 15, 2020

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-san-antonio-spurs-houston-rockets-preseason-game-2/

Obviously, there's no reason to panic . . . but it'd be nice to see this team play well at some point before the games begin to count.

[Chinook]

Feels like a year where we will see the team play really well ... after a couple of months. And it's a horrible year to drop a ton of early games. I see talent and sense in that roster. But Pop's gonna have to make the obvious decisions and not try to get too cute with his match-ups Walker's development is now the key to the first half of the season. Pop can't go away from that until at least White gets healthy. Even when Johnson comes back, he will probably need to start on the bench first.

[Chinook]

Also, for SAGirl 's benefit:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUfTvKg_oGQ

[BillMc]

Thanks for these OP

[phxspurfan]

Pop keeps tinkering / Lyles will be this years Forbes / Vassell needs to hit the weight room / Walker would do well to focus on perfecting a 3-D role, as his shot is looking good / Tre also looks like end of 1st round talent, nice pick a la Jacque Vaughn

[timvp]

Walker's development is now the key to the first half of the season. Pop can't go away from that until at least White gets healthy,

Hard agree. For the Spurs to win games without White, the straightest line is for Walker to start and hope he turns into a 15-to-20 points per game scorer.

[SAGirl]

Thanks for the grades Timvp as always.

[SAGirl]

Also, for SAGirl (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=49524) 's benefit:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUfTvKg_oGQ
Thanks. I really appreciate it. :bobo

[Chinook]

Hard agree. For the Spurs to win games without White, the straightest line is for Walker to start and hope he turns into a 15-to-20 points per game scorer.

The issue is, I don't think that happens with Murray, DeRozan, Aldridge and especially Gay as the rest of the unit. There were stretches of the game where Walker barely shot. Some of that was definitely a matter of aggression. But a good deal was guys like LMA, Gay and Murray shooting quick shots. To some extent, you just have to accept quick looks if you want to increase the pace. But Pop has to earn his money by calling plays to get Lonnie looks and by staying in his ear making him take them. I see Walker as the clear third option behind LMA and DMDR going forward. If he's not getting Eric Gordon levels of touches, it's not going to work. That unlike those other two he can shoot the three well just makes it more important that he get a lot of manufactured attempts until his acclimates to knowing when he's supposed to step up.

Also, the team could use his penetration and kicking. He showed that once tonight, but his potential in that end is why I wanted the Spurs to draft him so badly in 2018. It's like Kira Lewis but with more size and less experience.

[Dejounte]

There was one play tonight where Lonnie drove in and threw up a circus shot when the defender met him at the rim. He has to reduce those.

Hoping to see the Lonnie + Poetl connection next game. I hope Pop is in his ear about contributing in other ways than scoring.

[spurs10]

Thanks for the grades. The game was blacked out for me on Directv. Same for Thursday I reckon. So thanks Chinook for the video. Any ideas of how I can watch Thursday's game would be appreciated, but I believe I'm out of luck.

[Chinook]

Thanks for the grades. The game was blacked out for me on Directv. Same for Thursday I reckon. So thanks Chinook for the video. Any ideas of how I can watch Thursday's game would be appreciated, but I believe I'm out of luck.

So for me, I live in Austin, and the game was blacked out for the Spurs feed, but I randomly got a Houston feed on my U-Verse channel 2105. Never even knew channels went up that high. Anyway, I'd check to see if something similar is available on whatever providers you and the other folks who had issues have. I had to search my guide to find that channel, and my cable box turned off after the game ended like it was some creepypasta or whatever. I'm pretty confident something similar will happen again on Thursday.

[Robz4000]

I'm fine with the Spurs getting off to a horrible start to the season. Would prolly be the final nail in the coffin to their hesitance to trade LMA/DPR, allowing the team to play younger while getting a high pick in this year's stacked draft.

[PhantomDashCam]

Feels like a year where we will see the team play really well ... after a couple of months. And it's a horrible year to drop a ton of early games. I see talent and sense in that roster. But Pop's gonna have to make the obvious decisions and not try to get too cute with his match-ups Walker's development is now the key to the first half of the season. Pop can't go away from that until at least White gets healthy. Even when Johnson comes back, he will probably need to start on the bench first.

With all the roster moves that have happened league wide, you would think this Spurs team would have a leg up chemistry wise on the competition.
I still believe LA starting is a mistake. You need Jakob to cover for some of the perimeter issues and then Vassell can help hide some of LAs plodding-ness.
Can’t believe DJ, Patty and Lonnie got ripped by Boogie in the same game.

[phxspurfan]

So for me, I live in Austin, and the game was blacked out for the Spurs feed, but I randomly got a Houston feed on my U-Verse channel 2105. Never even knew channels went up that high. Anyway, I'd check to see if something similar is available on whatever providers you and the other folks who had issues have. I had to search my guide to find that channel, and my cable box turned off after the game ended like it was some creepypasta or whatever. I'm pretty confident something similar will happen again on Thursday.

LP also only had Houston feeds, even on the Spurs channel. And really poor quality ones at that. Pixelated, almost SD.

[gospursgojas]

Offense was nonexistent once Demar left the court.

[FutureMan]

I’m amazed at how Lyles and free throws can sway even a preseason game :rollin

Man he was terrible!

[C-Dub]

LMA grade for this game is definitely a D. He's makes the team stagnant.

[spurs10]

So for me, I live in Austin, and the game was blacked out for the Spurs feed, but I randomly got a Houston feed on my U-Verse channel 2105. Never even knew channels went up that high. Anyway, I'd check to see if something similar is available on whatever providers you and the other folks who had issues have. I had to search my guide to find that channel, and my cable box turned off after the game ended like it was some creepypasta or whatever. I'm pretty confident something similar will happen again on Thursday. Hey thanks. Yeah normally I find something and Houston did broadcast it, but Directv blocked it out. I'll keep searching for a feed on Thursday. Regular season almost all the games are on FSSW which I get.

[LakerHater]

Should be A++
https://images2.imgbox.com/1c/92/cfm51Gnj_o.gif

[gospursgojas]

LMA grade for this game is definitely a D. He's makes the team stagnant.

Did you watch game? When Demar’s night was over, the offense looked like a JV team.

[playblair]

season is over before it begins if lma/derozan/gay r starting game 1

[ElNono]

fuck op, I'm panicking... this team blows

[r0drig0lac]

if Aldridge will not even try, he shouldn't even be on the court in these pre-season games

[Rummpd]

What to panic about? The FO has been a farce for several years and has not tried to be aggressive in rebuilding or retooling like OKC or if they have tried they have not pulled it off. HOF coach will not play best line ups and key players are already injured. No panic but this will likely not be a good season.

[exstatic]

Should be A++
https://images2.imgbox.com/1c/92/cfm51Gnj_o.gif

No shit. Felt like I was watching a live action performance art exhibition of Iversons SLAM magazine cover.

Fear the ‘Fro!

[poopbox]

These pre-season games aren't going to tell us much wit White and Keldon out because once they come back everything from lineups to rotations to minutes changes...

The only thing I really care about in this preseason is for Jones and Vassel to play well enough that Pop has to keep them in the rotation somewhat...

Would have been nice to see Luka play well but with food poisoning probably won't see him until regular season...year 2 is when our rookies really make an impact so he needs to show signs of life this season

[BackHome]

To be honest not much to like from this game I really don’t think anyone’s grade should be higher then a C+ this game was painful to watch. The only thing that really stood out is that we really need a PG to be able to handle the ball and set people up. I am wondering how long White will be out with his toe issue because without him directing our offense it’s going to be really ugly basketball.

[tbdog]

I am so worried about our defensive schemes. We collapse so much.

[Dejounte]

To be honest not much to like from this game I really don’t think anyone’s grade should be higher then a C+ this game was painful to watch. The only thing that really stood out is that we really need a PG to be able to handle the ball and set people up. I am wondering how long White will be out with his toe issue because without him directing our offense it’s going to be really ugly basketball.

What also stood out is that DeMar appears more important to this team than Aldridge does, so if there was ever a debate between the two-- that debate should be over.

DeMar is solid and doesn't hurt the team. You don't get rid of him for the sake of getting rid of him, especially if you can keep him at a lower price. And you sure as hell don't let him go just to overpay Oladipo.

Obviously, if he can be traded for a better piece, then yeah you do it.

[Truckules]

I am so worried about our defensive schemes. We collapse so much.

Agreed. The play at https://youtu.be/RUfTvKg_oGQ?t=423 from last night epitomizes this. Why the heck is Rudy helping so much from the strongside corner on a drive by Eric Gordon? I understand there was a switch/mismatch but helping this much from the strongside corner just begs to give up easy corner threes. I don't think it was a defensive lapse either. It looks like something that they're told to do.

[Dejounte]

Agreed. The play at https://youtu.be/RUfTvKg_oGQ?t=423 from last night epitomizes this. Why the heck is Rudy helping so much from the strongside corner on a drive by Eric Gordon? I understand there was a switch/mismatch but helping this much from the strongside corner just begs to give up easy corner threes. I don't think it was a defensive lapse either. It looks like something that they're told to do.

That looks EERILY similar to another defensive breakdown that happened with DeMar overhelping and it leading to an open man for a 3. Guess who he was helping? LaMarcus Aldridge. Same as the example you've shown here. They don't trust his defensive capabilities.

[Dejounte]

Agreed. The play at https://youtu.be/RUfTvKg_oGQ?t=423 from last night epitomizes this. Why the heck is Rudy helping so much from the strongside corner on a drive by Eric Gordon? I understand there was a switch/mismatch but helping this much from the strongside corner just begs to give up easy corner threes. I don't think it was a defensive lapse either. It looks like something that they're told to do.

I found it: check the play at 5:07.

[Ice009]

How long is Derrick White expected to be out for?

[Truckules]

I found it: check the play at 5:07.

That one looks to be more on Demar rather than on scheme. Since Demar's guarding the weakside wing, he's supposed to help prevent middle drives by guarding the nail. However, Demar goes much deeper into the paint. Going that far into the paint rather than to the nail has two negative side effects. First is that it makes the pass to his man easier. If he were further up, Wall would have to make a tougher pass around Demar. Second is that it makes it for a longer recovery and thus more time to gather and shoot.

[Dex]

How long is Derrick White expected to be out for?

This is pretty much all we know at this point:

1338993643340742656

[couchman]

LA starts every season out of shape and then works into it.
That was fine when he was allowed to do his thing, but this year he needs to adjust his game and his fitness is hurting him. I would keep Demar, trade LA, and build a young 3 and D defensive running team around Poetl on D and Demar on O.

[jjktkk]

So for me, I live in Austin, and the game was blacked out for the Spurs feed, but I randomly got a Houston feed on my U-Verse channel 2105. Never even knew channels went up that high. Anyway, I'd check to see if something similar is available on whatever providers you and the other folks who had issues have. I had to search my guide to find that channel, and my cable box turned off after the game ended like it was some creepypasta or whatever. I'm pretty confident something similar will happen again on Thursday.Got the game last night in Austin, Spectrum, ch. 54.

[poopbox]

That looks EERILY similar to another defensive breakdown that happened with DeMar overhelping and it leading to an open man for a 3. Guess who he was helping? LaMarcus Aldridge. Same as the example you've shown here. They don't trust his defensive capabilities.

LMA is old, unathletic, and has bad knees. Of course he is going to be bad on any defense that isn't right under the rim :rollin

[Mugen]

I'm fine with the Spurs getting off to a horrible start to the season. Would prolly be the final nail in the coffin to their hesitance to trade LMA/DPR, allowing the team to play younger while getting a high pick in this year's stacked draft.

This. A horrible start would be great. Would hopefully nudge them to move on from some of the old vets and hopefully plant the seed for the old man that this should be his last season.

[SAGirl]

Some impressive things I liked from the highlights was Walker shooting the 3 with no fear. Demar shot a 3 coming off a screen that looked beautiful but it's always whether he will shoot that ever again.

Murray continues with a ridiculously high dribble, but he made some heady plays and passes to cutters, which I like. He started off playing as well as you can expect. He also had a couple of pretty jumpers.

Lyles looked really bad on both ends.

Bc it was only highlights I was left wondering where and how the game got away from them. The outcome doesn't matter in preseason, just learn from the experience and move on. It seems the bench play was really poor, perhaps highlighted by bad Lyles (and Mills?) games.

[Sugus]

I am so worried about our defensive schemes. We collapse so much.

Yeah, this is a glaring problem in our defensive scheme. The league just isn't going the way our defense expects, nobody is shooting pull-up middies anymore, and drive&dish for a 3pt shot is the name of the game. Unnecessarily collapsing into the paint and leaving shooters wide open is a recipe for failure, no matter your defensive personnel. It worked for the Bucks somewhat last season due to excellent team cohesion, defensive personnel, and having the MVP/DPOY on the team, and they still lead the league in 3pt shots allowed and opp. 3-pointers made. Spurs, with their personnel, should never be trying a scheme like they are - expecting Patty, or LMA, to be recovering or rotating to the open corner shooter, is just head-to-the-wall stupid.

[Sugus]

The issue is, I don't think that happens with Murray, DeRozan, Aldridge and especially Gay as the rest of the unit. There were stretches of the game where Walker barely shot. Some of that was definitely a matter of aggression. But a good deal was guys like LMA, Gay and Murray shooting quick shots. To some extent, you just have to accept quick looks if you want to increase the pace. But Pop has to earn his money by calling plays to get Lonnie looks and by staying in his ear making him take them. I see Walker as the clear third option behind LMA and DMDR going forward. If he's not getting Eric Gordon levels of touches, it's not going to work. That unlike those other two he can shoot the three well just makes it more important that he get a lot of manufactured attempts until his acclimates to knowing when he's supposed to step up.

Also, the team could use his penetration and kicking. He showed that once tonight, but his potential in that end is why I wanted the Spurs to draft him so badly in 2018. It's like Kira Lewis but with more size and less experience.

Also agree on this. Walker looked a lot better last night, but it's clear by now that he's gotta learn through his mistakes and limitations, and the only way to do that is experience, touches, and making mistakes then watching film on them. On the one hand, he's not going to get many touches with that starting unit having DJ/DD/LMA on it; on the other, playing him off the bench really limits his minutes and role, which you don't want. I saw your point on Dejounte in the other thread, and agree - I'm hopeful one of DJ/DD/LMA will be traded at the deadline. Otherwise, Lonnie's (and White's and maybe even Keldon's) development will be stunted.

Coming into the season, I was hopeful maybe the vets would relinquish their touch-heavy roles, and "fade into the background" to let the youngings take center spot. Now, it's looking very unlikely (for multiple reasons - vets being in a contract year, but also the youth not "seizing things up", and also definitely coaching to an extent). We'll see the adjustments Pop will make once the games start counting, but I'm tempering my expectations for this season right now, tbh.

[exstatic]

Some impressive things I liked from the highlights was Walker shooting the 3 with no fear. Demar shot a 3 coming off a screen that looked beautiful but it's always whether he will shoot that ever again.

Murray continues with a ridiculously high dribble, but he made some heady plays and passes to cutters, which I like. He started off playing as well as you can expect. He also had a couple of pretty jumpers.

Lyles looked really bad on both ends.

Bc it was only highlights I was left wondering where and how the game got away from them. The outcome doesn't matter in preseason, just learn from the experience and move on. It seems the bench play was really poor, perhaps highlighted by bad Lyles (and Mills?) games.

It was still within reach, but Pop dumped the deep bench to play the 4th Q. Eubanks, Cam, Tre Jones, Lyles, Devin. Devin was about the only rotation player to get much burn in the 4th.

[SAGirl]

It was still within reach, but Pop dumped the deep bench to play the 4th Q. Eubanks, Cam, Tre Jones, Lyles, Devin. Devin was about the only rotation player to get much burn in the 4th.
Thanks for this reply.

[spurraider21]

losing hope in murray. he's made strides with his jumper but no improvement in his ball handling.

white's inability to stay healthy likely means murray will start a ton no matter what pop decides to do

PF is a dead position rn, with LMA really being a center at this point. desperate for Samanic to be ready for heavy rotation minutes, though he didnt exactly look ready for that at the end of the bubble. Gay is the only guy who holds the fort there right now, and thats not a good sign.

unless pop really wants to go small and play somebody like Derozan or Keldon at the 4

Vassell looks physically ready, but is fairly timid on offense, which isn't that unexpected for a rook

Tre Jones just gives me Cory Joseph vibes. hard nosed defender, can somewhat operate an offense, but is just not enough of a scoring threat to make it certain that he wont just be a liability.

[John B]

Thanks Timvp. I think Spurs are okay when we get everybody healthy. I like that Demar didn't hesitate to take that 3. And Pop letting Vassell play heavy minutes should be an indication we will be seeing the kid play in the rotation, hopefully even start.

[John B]

Murray is NOT a PG and should really focus on scoring than setting up people.

[spurraider21]

Murray is NOT a PG and should really focus on scoring than setting up people.
he actually showed good passing ability and LMA needlessly fumbled a couple of good passes in the paint. the problem is his ball handling is atrocious.

[GAustex]

A PG acumen is one that Murray struggles to display

[poopbox]

Murray is NOT a PG and should really focus on scoring than setting up people.

Not a point guard but should focus on setting up other people...like a point guard ?

[lefty]

Not a point guard but should focus on setting up other people...like a point guard ?
You might want to read his post again

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/RealTomPetrini/status/1339325581503193088?s=09

Add Cam Reynolds to the list...

[RC_Drunkford]

Not a point guard but should focus on setting up other people...like a point guard ?

:lmao :lmao :lmao

classic spurstalk IQ

[John B]

Not a point guard but should focus on setting up other people...like a point guard ?
Focus on scoring instead of setting up other people. Come on man :lol
I think DJ gets too cute on trying to make an assist. Make it simple, try to score, and pass when he is not open. SG/SF. I think Pop saw this pairing him with Tre, and was visible that Tre already has better control.

[Down Under]

Can't read into anything until our 2 best players get back.

[J_Paco]

Can't read into anything until our 2 best players get back.

When did LaMarcus & DeMar go down with injury? Oh, you meant Keldon & Derrick.

I like both a lot and Keldon has some untapped potential, but SpursTalk is greatly overstating how good either guy is. Playing well in 8 games in the NBA Bubble doesn't magically make you better than two former all-stars that are still productive.

And the team might be without them into the season, so trying to adjust & press on is key so they don't get off to a bad start.

[Down Under]

When did LaMarcus & DeMar go down with injury? Oh, you meant Keldon & Derrick.

I like both a lot and Keldon has some untapped potential, but SpursTalk is greatly overstating how good either guy is. Playing well in 8 games in the NBA Bubble doesn't magically make you better than two former all-stars that are still productive.

And the team might be without them into the season, so trying to adjust & press on is key so they don't get off to a bad start.
Disagree. White showed enough in 18-19 season that he's a complete player - can shoot, create, finish, facilitate & defend. KJ is fearless, relentless & plays with 1 gear. His impact defensively, as well as his decisiveness when shooting, cutting, finishing & attacking closeouts makes him the 2nd most impactful IMO. DD's shot creation is still there & he's a good facilitator, but with the game changing, his inability to play off the ball & his defense is getting exposed more & more.

[Dejounte]

Disagree. White showed enough in 18-19 season that he's a complete player - can shoot, create, finish, facilitate & defend. KJ is fearless, relentless & plays with 1 gear. His impact defensively, as well as his decisiveness when shooting, cutting, finishing & attacking closeouts makes him the 2nd most impactful IMO. DD's shot creation is still there & he's a good facilitator, but with the game changing, his inability to play off the ball & his defense is getting exposed more & more.

True, White appeared head and shoulders above the rest towards the end of the last season. To the point where it was obvious in interviews that his teammates gave him a lot of respect for being so good.

Keldon, well, it's only a matter of time before he lets the doubters know he's a top player on this team.

[PhantomDashCam]

Tomorrow’s pre season game should give fans a good indication of who’s going to play over the first couple of weeks of the season.
Pencil in DJ, DDR as starters. Hoping the other 3 will be Lonnie, Poeltl and Gay/Lyles.
Imperative with our inability to initiate offence from the PG position, that the 2nd unit features Aldridge in a semi post attack - Inside out style.
LA can still drift to the perimeter every now and then, but that shouldn’t be his primary focus.

[Dejounte]

Tomorrow’s pre season game should give fans a good indication of who’s going to play over the first couple of weeks of the season.
Pencil in DJ, DDR as starters. Hoping the other 3 will be Lonnie, Poeltl and Gay/Lyles.
Imperative with our inability to initiate offence from the PG position, that the 2nd unit features Aldridge in a semi post attack - Inside out style.
LA can still drift to the perimeter every now and then, but that shouldn’t be his primary focus.

I think it will be

DJ
Lonnie
DeMar
Gay
Aldridge

[PhantomDashCam]

I think it will be

DJ
Lonnie
DeMar
Gay
Aldridge

Yeah I think you’re on the money there.
Healthy dose of Jakob and Vassell off the bench too.

[Bynumite]

.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-san-antonio-spurs-houston-rockets-preseason-game-2/

Obviously, there's no reason to panic . . . but it'd be nice to see Pop coach well at some point before the games begin to count.

fify.

[Fireball]

we need to get rid of Trey Lyles ... that was horrible and its just no fun at all having him in the game

[J_Paco]

Disagree. White showed enough in 18-19 season that he's a complete player - can shoot, create, finish, facilitate & defend. KJ is fearless, relentless & plays with 1 gear. His impact defensively, as well as his decisiveness when shooting, cutting, finishing & attacking closeouts makes him the 2nd most impactful IMO. DD's shot creation is still there & he's a good facilitator, but with the game changing, his inability to play off the ball & his defense is getting exposed more & more.


Again, Keldon's play in 8 games isn't indicative of how he'll play with more minutes, a larger role & more responsibility (i.e. small sample size).

I like the kid a lot & hope he can become a building block, but ST is way, way overstating his current value. Let him string along that production level over 30, 40, 50+ games & then he'll be near their level.

Derrick needs to stay healthy, be given a larger role on offense & not fall into his mental lapses with his confidence. He is already the third best player on the team, and likely the most valuable because he take playmaking/ball handling pressure off DeMar & DeJounte, but his production level isn't at the level of DeMar & LaMarcus to surpass them yet.

[TD 21]

but his production level isn't at the level of DeMar & LaMarcus to surpass them yet.

If by production you mean ppg, it's largely tied to minutes and usage. When he had them in the bubble, he "produced" at their level, on greater (albeit in a small, unsustainable sample size) efficiency.

[J_Paco]

we need to get rid of Trey Lyles ... that was horrible and its just no fun at all having him in the game

He got off to a slow start last season, but picked it up during the second half of the season. Seems like he has a lot of rust, his confidence is low (same issue him & Pop mentioned in his Spurs Stories piece) & he's rushing things.

Hopefully, he'll slow down & get back to being the same type of rebounding, stretch 4 the starting line up desperately needs.

Without Keldon & Derrick, I'm hoping Pop goes with a lineup similar to this to start the season:

Starting - PG: DeJounte
SG: DeMar DeRozan
SF: Devin Vassell
PF: Trey Lyles
C: LaMarcus Aldridge

Bench: 6. Patty Mills
7. Lonnie Walker
8. Rudy Gay
9. Jakob Poeltl
10. Cam Reynolds or Keita Bates-Diop


That's the best line up, IMO, for floor spacing & balance purposes since we are gonna be missing two important pieces for sometime. Vassell has looked great in the preseason, has the help defensive instincts the starting group needs & could be a great volume three point shooter (provides much needed spacing).

Lonnie can be much needed secondary ballhandler in the second unit & needs to still work through his confidence/passivity issues. His on-ball defense has also been really bad & I'm scared to see him trying to guard starting caliber SG's for 20 - 28 minutes.

[tholdren]

fuck op, I'm panicking... this team blows

Loloooll

U said Murray was good and lma

[TimDunkem]

^lol He said Bryn Forbes was good and is a big Lonzo Ball fan. Go figure.