Preseason Grades: Spurs at Rockets - Dec. 17, 2020

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-san-antonio-spurs-houston-rockets-preseason-game-3/

Not the best Spurs game I've ever watched, tbh.

[phxspurfan]

Top of the lottery here we come

[BillMc]

Thanks OP.

The only plus I can give Pop is he's played Devin a lot of minutes these three games. Otherwise, I'm not sure what the Spurs got out of it

[Dejounte]

"Lonnie:
When driving the ball, he passed whenever any semblance of a roadblock appeared. His panic with the ball in his hands was palpable."

I'm happy this was captured. Please wake up, Lonnie, before it's too late.

[sananspursfan21]

Ouch. Anybody who had big expectations has nobody to blame but themselves, but this could be uglier than even some of the more realist/optimist fans thought. I’m in that camp and suddenly my predicted 34 wins is looking like a far cry. Hope I’m wrong.

[GAustex]

I will be interesting to see if pop can keep the team’s positive attitude up as things move on.

[widowmaker]

Vassell looks like the only NBA player out there compared to all those bodies on life support out there.

[onechance87]

lonnie shouldint be starting....it wont wont work with murray lonnie demar....They cant make shots....its gotta be vassell who starts if kj is not back

[Mugen]

I will be interesting to see if pop can keep the team’s positive attitude up as things move on.

I mean it's entirely possible that this team has tuned him out and don't give a shit what he says :lol

[Chinook]

I legit think Walker will ask for a trade and the Spurs will grant him one where they essentially get nothing to "do right by him". He seemed really mentally checked out in the game. I don't think that was all everyone else's fault, but the Spurs aren't doing anything to actually develop their guys anymore. Pop basically played the pre-season like he had a full vet rotation with him pissing away the first game and then playing vets so much at the exclusion of younger guys. I like that Vassell is getting minutes, but the dude probably should start and get his minutes that way. He's basically already what Murray should've been at this point.

Like, if you're going to have young players, then you need to give them some manageable level of responsibility and use the vets as a means to corral and guide the young players' development. Starting Murray, Walker/Vassell, DeRozan, Samanic, Aldridge makes some sense with the injuries, but you have to then make sure those guys get shots and situations where they can make decisions. You can't just take your hand away and hope that guys who historically use a ton of possessions will all of the sudden form a rookie-friendly atmosphere. He has four vets. There's no reason why they aren't staggered throughout the rotation. Contrary to the bubble, the young guys need actual structure around them. Going up and down the court taking shitty shots is only going to instill bad habits in them.

[Mugen]

Hey OP, are you happy that Pop is still coaching?

[Capt Bringdown]

Murray or Walker wouldn't get PT on any other NBA teams. Garbage time kids.

[Dex]

Lonnie literally looks broken.

Dude didn't do anything in the bubble despite getting plenty of run, and actually looks worse this preseason.

[Mugen]

I 100% guarantee that Lonnie will do much better on literally any other NBA team with any other coach in this league. No doubt in my mind.

He's obviously to blame for a lot of his shortcomings but I've never seen any young player be so mis-used in all my years of watching the NBA. I'm excited to see what he can do in a better setting a la Bertans.

[SpursDynasty85]

If the team doesn’t see improvement soon or if the older guys don’t get benched, will probably stop watching this year.

[Mugen]

It's hilarious how so many of you are perplexed why this 70+ year old, washed up coach can't get the most or relate to a bunch of early 20 something uber athletic kids :lol

[TimDunkem]

If the team doesn’t see improvement soon or if the older guys don’t get benched, will probably stop watching this year.
It really is hard to watch.

[Dejounte]

If the team doesn’t see improvement soon or if the older guys don’t get benched, will probably stop watching this year.

Just curious, which young guy should the old guys be benched for? There's literally nobody available because they're all injured.

[spurs10]

It's at least good to see our new guy Vassell playing so well. He should start. Wonder what the SL will be on 12/23. Everybody looks disengaged.

[tmtcsc]

"Lonnie:
When driving the ball, he passed whenever any semblance of a roadblock appeared. His panic with the ball in his hands was palpable."

I'm happy this was captured. Please wake up, Lonnie, before it's too late.

It's already too late. I see a very physically gifted guy who doesn't like or care much about basketball. He's got more money than he ever thought he'd have in his life and is satisfied. A miss for the front office, just like Murray. So be it, get rid of him.

[SpursDynasty85]

Just curious, which young guy should the old guys be benched for? There's literally nobody available because they're all injured.

im referring to after White and Keldon come back. Gay, Derozan, Aldridge, and Patty need to see less minutes. Doubt Pop does that though he might think we will tank with the vets but I’m not watching a tank machine led by Vets.

[tmtcsc]

Best or most talented Spurs players at this point: White, Johnson, Vassell, Aldridge & Derozan.

[Sugus]

Lonnie literally looks broken.

Dude didn't do anything in the bubble despite getting plenty of run, and actually looks worse this preseason.

Disagree. He had a lot better games during the bubble - was being effective in his drive & dish, creating assists and open shots for his teammates; had a nice synergy going with Poeltl, and also with Keldon, lot of plays where both used their athleticism on D to create offensive opportunities; and shot better. Definitely agree though that he looks visibly worse now. To be honest, considering the rest of the team, it's to be expected. I just hope the forum talk of a trade is just that, forum talk...

[BackHome]

How bad are we when we have only 2 legit NBA starters players who are signed for next season - Keldon and Vassell. Trade or cut or do what ever ya got to do to get better players and YES tank - though I don’t think that will be a problem this season it’s going to get Ugly real Quick.

[Dejounte]

im referring to after White and Keldon come back. Gay, Derozan, Aldridge, and Patty need to see less minutes. Doubt Pop does that though he might think we will tank with the vets but I’m not watching a tank machine led by Vets.

Ah I see, so it's similar with RC Drunkford.

I just don't believe in counting my chickens before they hatch. It's a wait and see approach with me and I'm more so on the other side of this-- i think these guys will get their deserved minutes over the vets. No one thought Vassell would get any, and now here we are.

[SpurPadre]

Best or most talented Spurs players at this point: White, Johnson, Vassell, Aldridge & Derozan.

I still think you guys are vastly overrating White. He's alright but nothing special, not yet at least.

[playblair]

If the team doesn’t see improvement soon or if the older guys don’t get benched, will probably stop watching this year.
wont be watching this year if game 1 sees lma/gay/derozan in the starting lineup.......popovich lied about the youth lineup i wont waste my time watching the old slow ish

[Dejounte]

At this point, LMA garners too much respect from his teammates to be called out for his poor defense. Trading him would be addition by subtraction. Trade him to the Celtics for their trade exception and be done with it. This team needs a big who can be held accountable for poor play. I feel like none of the young guys can yell at him for him losing coverage.

They need to be harder on each other but we have too many sensitive nice guys on the team.

[tmtcsc]

BTW, I think anyone who got excited watching the bubble squad perform well in the summer should probably temper expectations for a repeat this season. Many of the Spurs' opponents were half-assing it knowing they were already assured a playoff spot for the most part. I don't give much credence to it.

Not much has changed. The players are saying a bunch of positive stuff in their interviews but we all know its lip service. If Derozan thought some other team would pay him as much as he's getting for opting-in, he'd be gone. Aldridge couldn't be moved for much in return and Rudy Gay still can't give you consistent, positive performance.

It's most likely gonna be another shitty year for the Spurs. But hey, they'll wear those sherbet-colored, alternate uniforms on occasion to make some fans happy I guess.

[Dennis the Menace]

Top of the lottery here we come

You say that like it’s a bad thing.

[Dennis the Menace]

When’s the last time we had an NBA ready rookie like Vassell? Kawhi..I’d even say bubble version Keldon

Now let’s draft a solid 4 or 5 with shooting range. We stacked

[Rummpd]

Front Office F and Head Coach D - for off-season and pre-season development. I got hammered for threads weeks ago predicting this total fail by this organization that won’t move on or move forward. A joke.

[objective]

Walker: Probably the worst single game from a Spur in a long time from Lonnie, dude looks mentally broken. A lot of the blame for development belongs with him, but it's not like he's been developed well by Pop. Dude was a sounding like a space cadet talking about the world being a hologram who treated his hair like Samson, he needed some special attention.

Murray was more bad than good. He looks worse than the bubble, hell he doesn't even look as good in the pre-bubble games. Another case where a former point guard as an assistant coach to help him probably could not have hurt. Doubt he's getting any insight from Will Hardy or Mitch Johnson.

Lyles is on his way out of the NBA if he's not careful. He'll be getting minimums and LLEs from here on out, and that's the kind of deal he'd be on now if the Spurs hadn't been shanked by Morris and given a charity deal to Lyles afterwards like bad teams do. He just doesn't do anything that well. And unfortunately he's still better at everything than Samanic.

Poeltl was real bad too. No excuses for him.

Vassell looks like he should start right now with DeRozan at the 4. As bad as Aldridge has been, I do think some of it was predictable given his past moping if he didn't think he was getting the ball at the right time in the right place. White coming back whenever that happens will help a lot, but Vassell would help also as far as being a smart player on the court. Keldon Johnson might be stronger and better suited to bang as a starter instead, but Vassell's floor generaling defense and shooting might be better for the team.

Mills was pretty bad again. With FIBA Mills, it's feast or vomit, and it's probably going to be vomit 2 out of every 3 games or 3 out of 4.

As far as addressing things with trades this year:

The one semi-plausible trade I can think of is something involving DeRozan and salary for Blake Griffin. It kills the Spurs caproom for an extra year for sure, but I can't think of anything else that could plausibly work for any other trade partner. It makes the Spurs worse talent-wise, but the fit could have a decent result by creating more opportunities for other players at positions and roles they aren't getting enough time at now.

For the Spurs, Griffin will be a better PF than DeRozan, or at east more suited to it. He moves like busted Terry Cummings, but he's probably not any worse a defender than DeRozan at this point. And he shoots 3s, thought not well last year. He's a good passer for keeping the ball moving, good at feeding bigs down low, and would need a minutes limit giving more time to other players.

It's like trading bad for worse, but I can't see other trades that would help.

I don't even think Boston has enough room to be able to take Aldridge, what with his trade kicker and their hard cap.

[objective]

I should add that Griffin's 19-20 highlight videos are grotesque, but I suppose I'm looking more at the 'addition by subtraction' of it all. Pray he can be closer to pre-all-star break Blake of 18-19.

[spurs10]

Gonna be a long week before the season starts.

[tbdog]

So that's it for pre season?

[John B]

Vassell has shown that he is a real deal. Defensively, Pop is already looking at him as a stopper. Will see when Keldon comes back. He’s not afraid to take the shot, and it looks silky good that I think Pop would let him get the green light. I just feel he will be a very special player.

The rest of the team, I feel Spurs just started on the wrong foot with key players injured, players that got the fans excited after the bubble. I think Murray should focus more on scoring. I think he gets too cute trying to get the assist. But if he gets more selfish, I think he could be an improved scorer. I like that Demar can still score at will. Aldridge seems to be at preseason mode. Poeltl has been horrendous defensively and getting himself some basket. So bad, Eubanks was outplaying him. Lyles was sleep walking. Mills is still a defensive liability. It’s preseason. I’ll pass judgement when everybody’s back.

[RC_Drunkford]

I 100% guarantee that Lonnie will do much better on literally any other NBA team with any other coach in this league. No doubt in my mind.

He's obviously to blame for a lot of his shortcomings but I've never seen any young player be so mis-used in all my years of watching the NBA. I'm excited to see what he can do in a better setting a la Bertans.

Bertans is exactly what he reminds me of. Flopovich has a history of putting certain players in a position to fail. Lonnie is one of them

[Fireball]

if White and Johnson don't have a huge impact this will be an ugly Phoenix Suns like season ... just a group of young guys playing unorganized basketball ...

[rankingtear]

Bertans is exactly what he reminds me of. Flopovich has a history of putting certain players in a position to fail. Lonnie is one of them

Jonathan Simmons is another one. Added freedom allowed him to become an all star.

[tbdog]

Jonathan Simmons is another one. Added freedom allowed him to become an all star.

He is out of the league now, yeah?

[4lifecowboy]

At this point I hope Lonnie can get out of here soon, before Pop sucks all the soul out of his game. You would think after coaching Manu, Pop would have learned not to try and micro-manage these young guys that play from the soul. Only thing the "Spurs way" have done for this kid is place doubt in his head.

[Slippy]

Lonnie literally looks broken.

Dude didn't do anything in the bubble despite getting plenty of run, and actually looks worse this preseason.

He had moments like this last season too.. from showing alot of promise in the first season to looking like a dud with no game to show. Gone backwards with no confidence for sure . Not surprised at all. Falls on pop.

Brent is looking good tho, got himself a role and contract.. Pop deserves credit for his development.

[rankingtear]

At this point I hope Lonnie can get out of here soon, before Pop sucks all the soul out of his game. You would think after coaching Manu, Pop would have learned not to try and micro-manage these young guys that play from the soul. Only thing the "Spurs way" have done for this kid is place doubt in his head.

Lonnie would be better without coaching for sure. Just let him do his thing for 36 min per game. His soul needs nurturing.

[duncan2k5]

This is what y'all wanted... To build around DeRozan and LMA... I kept saying trading them for literally anyone is addition by subtraction... But a lot of ppl on here have this mentality that a team needs a "star" in order to be heading in the right direction... But as I predicted, we are getting worse by the year... These guys don't deserve our loyalty... All they have done since being here is pout, and lament about playing on other teams

[tbdog]

They not building around them. I think that is part of the problem. They are drafting the best player availabe and kinda just plugging it in. Also LMA is now 35.

[Shakril]

Except for Vassell, everybody deserves an F. I was feeling, that i am watching the Knicks last night. With every pre Season game, the Spurs got worse. Everything was weird and didnt work. I actually have no clue, how the spurs gamestyle will be.

[Dejounte]

"more bad than good"

I'm really disappointed in you, objective

People are really struggling to objectively review DJ's play last night. If you had no prior knowledge of DJ coming into yesterday's game, these comments would look much different. Instead, Spurs fans can't judge a player honestly because of past trauma.

And I fucking hate myself for being the one to defend DJ! I never defended him last season, because he DID play poorly. But to read things like "he's worse than last season" is just a blatant lie (judging from these past two preseason games ONLY, he could very well fall off). It just irks the hell out of me people can't be truthful or at least, get rid of the hate-shaded glasses.

Now when DJ does have consecutive bad games, I have no problem calling it out as I did with other players. I fucking hate Patty Mills but I won't let that hate prevent me from giving him credit when he has a good game.

And let me be clear, I'm not saying he had a perfect game. There were some bad moments. But he looked quicker, stronger, and smarter (on some plays) than he has in two years. His aggressiveness when driving the ball was a sight to behold. He doesn't look like a 25+ minute player if he goes balls to the wall like that every game though. That's my only concern. But those 25 minutes would be hell for the other team, being attacked at all angles by one player.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/JonathanD_TV/status/1339744653587968008?s=19

Also, you must be be on drugs if you believe we would go after a player who does these kinds of antics. Not only that, he also fucking sucks and is an empty stat stuffer.

To also mention DeMar as the one to be traded for him is absurd. DeMar isn't the one hurting the team right now.

Tired of all these out of nowhere comments. Judge the team fairly. Criticism is fine when it's honest (and I've seen good ones).

[r0drig0lac]

Hey OP, are you happy that Pop is still coaching?

lol

[Dejounte]

The NBA season is an up-and-down season. It's exactly why I try to refrain from being too negative or too positive because later on these posts could look really stupid. I've watched the NBA for decades to learn that you don't close the book on something this early on, especially when it's preseason. I guess it's easier to weed out the wiser posters than the foolish ones. Maybe it's all just part of being a message board, and it's a given to see people write impulse-driven posts.

Yet people will read this post and later on say, "HA, you're an idiot for believing in the team early in the season." As if it's some type of accomplishment for posters like me (who try to stay neutral) to be wrong.

[objective]

"more bad than good"

I'm really disappointed in you, objective



I'm not hating on Murray. Go through my posts the past 2+ years, you'll see I'm no hater.

But I'm tired of his decision making being so slow after so long. It's like you can tell the gears are turning but it takes too long. I'm tired of his indecision with the ball. Whether to drive, whether to pull up for three, whether to go for the midrange. There's stutters when he has to act like a glitch in the matrix. When he decides to drive, it's fine. When he decides to shoot three, it's fine as far as the choice goes. Same for the mid-range pull-up. But he has such problems making those quick decisions that it's really grating on me.

I think it's why he looks better with White when White handles the ball, because it takes some of the burden of choice from Murray and he can just act. Otherwise he has the ball and he doesn't just have to make decisions on his own game, he also has to worry about Aldridge who pouts when he doesn't get the ball when and where he likes it, he has DeRozan wanting the ball, he has Gay getting rebounds and deciding he's point-Rudy ... just better to have White in charge and Murray can be freed to play off of him in ways he isn't without White there.

And I don't think he looks stronger than before, or faster. I liked the drives in game 2. I didn't blame him for the turnovers bouncing off of Aldridge.

But it's been 4+ years and he still doesn't have the decisiveness I thought he'd have by now. He still has the same poor ball handling where I think he got straight ripped by Cousins twice the other night. And I appreciate that Cousins has usually been good with steals and I like that Murray did a rip right back on the second one, but I am through anticipating a breakthrough. It could still happen, hell I hope it does and for the Spurs sake I hope it does, but I'm not counting on it. I have no confidence in him.

I don't blame the Spurs for doing the deal. After Kawhi torpedoed their reputation, they had to take their first opportunity to put a good faith 'we believe' contract on a young player, a hurt player at that, and a player with an agency that had a rep for being hard to work with. I thought he'd have the confidence to make the tough decisions and attack. But there's just hesitation now.

[objective]

https://twitter.com/JonathanD_TV/status/1339744653587968008?s=19

Also, you must be be on drugs if you believe we would go after a player who does these kinds of antics. Not only that, he also fucking sucks and is an empty stat stuffer.

To also mention DeMar as the one to be traded for him is absurd. DeMar isn't the one hurting the team right now.

Tired of all these out of nowhere comments. Judge the team fairly. Criticism is fine when it's honest (and I've seen good ones).

When I put addition by subtraction, I mean it.

IF, and it's only an IF, Pop won't start small with DDR at PF because he's worried about DeMar holding up or staying healthy or whatever, then that's a problem. Should White and Johnson come back and then it's a smallball line-up then no problem.

But I'm not so naive to think that Pop can't screw up. And at that point options can be on the table to reduce that problem. If Pop won't play DDR at PF, then swap DDR for someone who Pop would play at PF. Leaving time and opportunity for White, Murray, Vassell, Johnson, and Walker at the 1-3 spots.

Getting players out of the way so Pop can't play them, overplay them, or use them incorrectly I think works. Look at Vassell right now. Where would he be if Forbes was back and had a 3 year deal instead of 2? If Marco had a 3 year deal instead of 2?

So it's just an exercise in thinking out loud and putting thoughts on a board. It's nothing too serious, just a thought exercise.

[Prime BEEF]

Walker: Probably the worst single game from a Spur in a long time from Lonnie, dude looks mentally broken. A lot of the blame for development belongs with him, but it's not like he's been developed well by Pop. Dude was a sounding like a space cadet talking about the world being a hologram who treated his hair like Samson, he needed some special attention.

Murray was more bad than good. He looks worse than the bubble, hell he doesn't even look as good in the pre-bubble games. Another case where a former point guard as an assistant coach to help him probably could not have hurt. Doubt he's getting any insight from Will Hardy or Mitch Johnson.

Lyles is on his way out of the NBA if he's not careful. He'll be getting minimums and LLEs from here on out, and that's the kind of deal he'd be on now if the Spurs hadn't been shanked by Morris and given a charity deal to Lyles afterwards like bad teams do. He just doesn't do anything that well. And unfortunately he's still better at everything than Samanic.

Poeltl was real bad too. No excuses for him.

Vassell looks like he should start right now with DeRozan at the 4. As bad as Aldridge has been, I do think some of it was predictable given his past moping if he didn't think he was getting the ball at the right time in the right place. White coming back whenever that happens will help a lot, but Vassell would help also as far as being a smart player on the court. Keldon Johnson might be stronger and better suited to bang as a starter instead, but Vassell's floor generaling defense and shooting might be better for the team.

Mills was pretty bad again. With FIBA Mills, it's feast or vomit, and it's probably going to be vomit 2 out of every 3 games or 3 out of 4.

As far as addressing things with trades this year:

The one semi-plausible trade I can think of is something involving DeRozan and salary for Blake Griffin. It kills the Spurs caproom for an extra year for sure, but I can't think of anything else that could plausibly work for any other trade partner. It makes the Spurs worse talent-wise, but the fit could have a decent result by creating more opportunities for other players at positions and roles they aren't getting enough time at now.

For the Spurs, Griffin will be a better PF than DeRozan, or at east more suited to it. He moves like busted Terry Cummings, but he's probably not any worse a defender than DeRozan at this point. And he shoots 3s, thought not well last year. He's a good passer for keeping the ball moving, good at feeding bigs down low, and would need a minutes limit giving more time to other players.

It's like trading bad for worse, but I can't see other trades that would help.

I don't even think Boston has enough room to be able to take Aldridge, what with his trade kicker and their hard cap.
DDR/Murray/Lyles for Griffin/Bey/draft pick. Think it’s a good deal for both teams.

[Prime BEEF]

BTW, I think anyone who got excited watching the bubble squad perform well in the summer should probably temper expectations for a repeat this season. Many of the Spurs' opponents were half-assing it knowing they were already assured a playoff spot for the most part. I don't give much credence to it.

Not much has changed. The players are saying a bunch of positive stuff in their interviews but we all know its lip service. If Derozan thought some other team would pay him as much as he's getting for opting-in, he'd be gone. Aldridge couldn't be moved for much in return and Rudy Gay still can't give you consistent, positive performance.

It's most likely gonna be another shitty year for the Spurs. But hey, they'll wear those sherbet-colored, alternate uniforms on occasion to make some fans happy I guess.
Yes, going to be a rough season

[rastaspur]

Jonathan Simmons is another one. Added freedom allowed him to become an all star.

Fake news. He was never an all star. Was in the rising stars game.

His best year was a 14 point a game season of chucking with the magic.

All star my ass.

[rankingtear]

It's lonely in the DJ sniffer island it's me , talkspurs and i think poopbox. When Lonnie has a bad game it's pop's fault when DJ has a good game bench or trade him.

[Dejounte]

But I'm tired of his decision making being so slow after so long. It's like you can tell the gears are turning but it takes too long. I'm tired of his indecision with the ball. Whether to drive, whether to pull up for three, whether to go for the midrange. There's stutters when he has to act like a glitch in the matrix. When he decides to drive, it's fine. When he decides to shoot three, it's fine as far as the choice goes. Same for the mid-range pull-up. But he has such problems making those quick decisions that it's really grating on me.


All fair points from last season. I just disagree that everything you list here was evident in last night's game and the game before. Of course, I take into consideration of his past play and if I notice the same errors I'll go, "Same old DJ". It just wasn't there for me (for MOST of his minutes).




I think it's why he looks better with White when White handles the ball, because it takes some of the burden of choice from Murray and he can just act. Otherwise he has the ball and he doesn't just have to make decisions on his own game, he also has to worry about Aldridge who pouts when he doesn't get the ball when and where he likes it, he has DeRozan wanting the ball, he has Gay getting rebounds and deciding he's point-Rudy ... just better to have White in charge and Murray can be freed to play off of him in ways he isn't without White there.


Everyone looks better when White is on the floor with them. I think everyone is trying to peg Murray into a square hole when he's a round circle. He can excel as a guard if he continues to focus on driving to the basket and does less "probing", as Pop said last night. "Less probing" actually addresses your point of him having to do less thinking.




But it's been 4+ years and he still doesn't have the decisiveness I thought he'd have by now. He still has the same poor ball handling where I think he got straight ripped by Cousins twice the other night. And I appreciate that Cousins has usually been good with steals and I like that Murray did a rip right back on the second one, but I am through anticipating a breakthrough. It could still happen, hell I hope it does and for the Spurs sake I hope it does, but I'm not counting on it. I have no confidence in him.


Turnovers/ poor ball handling are a valid critique, but then again Cousins was stripping everybody in game 2, including Lonnie. I understand your lack of confidence in him, he was frustrating as hell last season. I guess I'm quicker to give people a blank slate at the start of each season.

[DavidTheGoliath]

It's lonely in the DJ sniffer island it's me , talkspurs and i think poopbox. When Lonnie has a bad game it's pop's fault when DJ has a good game bench or trade him.

Well apparently here on ST, when someone sucks it pops fault for misusing the guy.

[Dejounte]

When I put addition by subtraction, I mean it.

IF, and it's only an IF, Pop won't start small with DDR at PF because he's worried about DeMar holding up or staying healthy or whatever, then that's a problem. Should White and Johnson come back and then it's a smallball line-up then no problem.

But I'm not so naive to think that Pop can't screw up. And at that point options can be on the table to reduce that problem. If Pop won't play DDR at PF, then swap DDR for someone who Pop would play at PF. Leaving time and opportunity for White, Murray, Vassell, Johnson, and Walker at the 1-3 spots.

Getting players out of the way so Pop can't play them, overplay them, or use them incorrectly I think works. Look at Vassell right now. Where would he be if Forbes was back and had a 3 year deal instead of 2? If Marco had a 3 year deal instead of 2?

So it's just an exercise in thinking out loud and putting thoughts on a board. It's nothing too serious, just a thought exercise.

For one, I just don't think trading DDR for a PF is the right approach. Trading a PF (or C) for a PF makes more sense. I highly doubt any newly acquired PF will play over the current bigs we have on the roster, whereas if it was Aldridge, Lyles, Gay traded for a PF, then I don't see that new PF having any obstacles ahead of him on the roster.

I disagree that it's DeMar who will block minutes for the young guys. It's small ball era and we can find minutes for our guards and wings, it's the slow and lumbering bigs we have who need to be put aside.

I think it's unfair to say that Pop wasn't involved in the decision-making of letting Bryn and Marco go. It's popular to hate on Pop, but it's conjecture to believe he's not involved in the good things this organization does.

[Atl Spur]

DDR/Murray/Lyles for Griffin/Bey/draft pick. Think it’s a good deal for both teams.

Not bad����

[Atl Spur]

Lonnie has time but he needs to get his head out, Vassell May be his blessing in disguise! Pop should start Vassell and Lonnie become the sixth man.....less stress & expectation.

[rankingtear]

All fair points from last season. I just disagree that everything you list here was evident in last night's game and the game before. Of course, I take into consideration of his past play and if I notice the same errors I'll go, "Same old DJ". It just wasn't there for me (for MOST of his minutes).


Same. My arm chair gm assessment

Game 1 : improved DJ 3rd quarter
Game 2 : improved DJ first half
Game 3 : improved DJ whole game

[Dejounte]

Same. My arm chair gm assessment

Game 1 : improved DJ 3rd quarter
Game 2 : improved DJ first half
Game 3 : improved DJ whole game

And to throw a bone to DJ haters:

If he continues to have "terrible" nights like last night with a stat line of 17-10-4, then that should raise his trade value around the league.

I just don't understand why people are complaining about the kid.

[Dex]

And to throw a bone to DJ haters:

If he continues to have "terrible" nights like last night with a stat line of 17-10-4, then that should raise his trade value around the league.

I just don't understand why people are complaining about the kid.

17 points on 17 shots isn't much to write home about. Neither is a team-high four turnovers for your starting "point guard".

DJ has always been a solid rebounder and that should continue, but he's coming into his third year (not counting the one he missed due to injury) and he still doesn't seem to have any idea how to run the offense. He's terrible on the fast break unless he is trying to call his on number, he dribbles into traffic and gets himself stuck, and made several boneheaded passes last night specifically for that reason.

I think Murray still has potential to be used in other ways, but being our starting point guard ain't it unless he magically grows a basketball brain.

[lefty]

Shit team, Vassell is gonna bolt

[Dejounte]

17 points on 17 shots isn't much to write home about. Neither is a team-high four turnovers for your starting "point guard".

DJ has always been a solid rebounder and that should continue, but he's coming into his third year (not counting the one he missed due to injury) and he still doesn't seem to have any idea how to run the offense. He's terrible on the fast break unless he is trying to call his on number, he dribbles into traffic and gets himself stuck, and made several boneheaded passes last night specifically for that reason.

I think Murray still has potential to be used in other ways, but being our starting point guard ain't it unless he magically grows a basketball brain.

I don't know how much you can do when you're a starting point guard, and your starting shooting guard shoots only twice in 28 minutes and your starting center goes 3-12 FG for the game.

DJ had to play aggressive, maybe too aggressive (which led to a couple missed shots and turnovers), as a result of his passive teammates.

[KobesAchilles]

come back White! Come back!

[jjspur]

I've had a very similar trade idea in mind, however DDR, Murray, and Lyles make about 45 mil. Griffin and Bey only about 37. Not sure it would work under cap rules. I'd rather Aldridge, Rudy and a second for Griffin and Bey. Rudy has come ready to play this year unlike Aldridge.

[Chomag]

Honestly for me I think we have some players that can keep us competitive even as young as they are, but the problem is we have way to much dead weight and shit players on this team that our Head coach likes to play bringing them down. It's just to much for them to overcome.

When it all comes down to it there is only 3-4 players on this team worth a damn and I'm pretty sure y'all know who they are.

[Seventyniner]

Also, you must be be on drugs if you believe we would go after a player who does these kinds of antics. Not only that, he also fucking sucks and is an empty stat stuffer.

To also mention DeMar as the one to be traded for him is absurd. DeMar isn't the one hurting the team right now.

Tired of all these out of nowhere comments. Judge the team fairly. Criticism is fine when it's honest (and I've seen good ones).

imo the idea is that if next year's cap space isn't worth using on that FA class, the other way to "use" it is to ship out an expiring vet for a bad contract plus assets.

That said, I don't like a DDR/Griffin deal. Mainly because Griffin sucked last year and his contract only runs one season longer than DDR's. That's little enough that Detroit probably won't attach premium assets (their longer-term cap situation isn't all that bad). That destroys the Spurs' 2021 cap space for little, if any, return because (imo again) DDR is a better player than Griffin right now.

[rjv]

spot on with the grades. as to the vets, the only excuse i'll offer is that vets tend to sleepwalk through the preseason and i do expect them to be better in the regular season, but how much better is the question. LMA looked absolutely disinterested last night. murray, imo, can be a decent role player for the spurs but only at the 2 guard -and his game depends on the health of white, as much as anyone else on this team, probably more so. walker is lost, plain and simple and i wonder if he feels vassell breathing down his back. when keldon and white return, i'd much rather see vassell than a timid lonnie. eubanks has looked better than poeltl so far. mills is resilient but i'm going to expect a lot of inconsistency from him. he's also going to miss white.

[rjv]

as to the injuries to johnson and white and their delayed starts to the season, the positives are that vassell will get more PT. this season is about seeing which of the young players are going to be the foundation and that will at least allow vassell a chance to get some serious minutes. also, the spurs records will certainly suffer, as a result of their two best younger players' absence. in the end, perhaps this means a slightly higher lottery pick. and, as we all know, the spurs future is going to be predicated upon the draft, and perhaps a couple of solid (not spectacular) FA signings.

[Sugus]

The NBA season is an up-and-down season. It's exactly why I try to refrain from being too negative or too positive because later on these posts could look really stupid. I've watched the NBA for decades to learn that you don't close the book on something this early on, especially when it's preseason. I guess it's easier to weed out the wiser posters than the foolish ones. Maybe it's all just part of being a message board, and it's a given to see people write impulse-driven posts.

Yet people will read this post and later on say, "HA, you're an idiot for believing in the team early in the season." As if it's some type of accomplishment for posters like me (who try to stay neutral) to be wrong.

What?? You mean I shouldn't rush to post trade ideas for Lonnie after a bad pre-season game?? You sniffer!!! :lol

Now seriously, I agree. I'm entirely holding out judgment on this team until both White and Keldon are on it, preferrably on the SL. No matter the salaries, the "star" status', it's clear to those who watch the games that these two players are most important to the Spurs' cohesiveness and good play on both ends of the court. I wonder how much time it'll take Pop to realize this. In the meantime, at least watching Vassell get good minutes and be productive with them is a great sign.

To anyone who hasn't already: brace yourself for an up-and-down, bumpy, likely losing season. Tempering expectations is key here. We're rebuilding... And we're gonna play like a rebuilding team. Next off-season will be pivotal for the Spurs, we'll see what the team does then. I do hope they re-sign White right now, though, before he breaks out. Anyone know what's the deadline for that?

[Prime BEEF]

I've had a very similar trade idea in mind, however DDR, Murray, and Lyles make about 45 mil. Griffin and Bey only about 37. Not sure it would work under cap rules. I'd rather Aldridge, Rudy and a second for Griffin and Bey. Rudy has come ready to play this year unlike Aldridge.
Griffin and bey is $39.5M. Works in the trade machine. Not that that’s exactly indicative of real life though.

Casey and DDRs relationship from Toronto would be the big driver in this trade...and also their need for a solid guard. Detroit thinks Murray is a solid guard (doesn’t matter that some here don’t). Casey getting his guy and a young guard works for them. They in no way would be excited about getting gay and LMA. It works money wise and it’s players we would like to get rid of but from Detroit’s perspective they would say hell no to gay and LMA.

Celtics, warriors, trailblazers and maybe Chicago might be interested in a LMA/Gay package

[Bojo]

Jesus what a terrible game. Still, it really doesn't matter that much. Browns once went 4-0 in Preseason, we know what happened afterwards.

DJ was really good when he's not forced to set up a halfcourt offense.
Vassell is a breath of fresh air.
Gay looks efficient or at least as efficient as Rudy Gay will get in this reality.

I wouldn't be to concerned with the other vets yet. Sure, LA has been a trainwreck so far, but I guess he will be good with a few real games under his belt.

Lonnie on the other hand should have something to prove. No reason for him to half-ass preseason.


Opening week rotations, our best bet might be Murray-Walker-DD-Lyles-LA.
Yes, Lyles. Luka is not ready to start (yet), and Gay might be able to score big on second units. Lyles did terrible off the bench, but maybe if he's relegated to doing nothing but board and catch&shoot instead of scrubbing up midrange isos, his negative impact might be smaller. Although I'd be much, much happier if Luka was somehow NBA-ready in a few weeks...

[BackHome]

You know either way we loosing it doesn’t matter if we go with the kids or the vets we lottery bound which is great cause we not bringing in All Star players through free agency.

The only bad thing is that was really hoping that Murray and Walker would have shown that they can be part of the future at this point the answer is NOPE. Murray right now is a decent bench player one that that I noticed in pre season games is for a PG he has shown ZERO ability to drive into the paint and kick it out. And when ball is in half court he has shown ZERO ability to beat his man down and take it to the rim all he does is drives in maybe 3 feet and as soon as defense closes he passes it out.

Walker I feel for but I just don’t think he is a basketball player and I don’t think he has the mental toughness to make it in the NBA I wish and hope I am wrong.

As far as Poodle like I said before he is a good backup but he is not a starter but he still needs to work on his offense game and stop acting like a rookie and start playing like a Vet.

Then we have White a guy who I like but his foot issues are starting to remind me of KY hamstring issues.

Then we have old man Pop .........................................

In Tank I Trust ...:lma

[R. DeMurre]

Things are tough to evaluate with White and KJ out, but it's depressing to see the same scenario that popped up so often last season: DeRozan leading the team in minutes while also having the worst +/-. I'm optimistic about a future White/KJ/Vassell trio, but I just wonder at what the plan is going forward. There's a ton of cap space next year, but I don't see too many realistic FAs for the Spurs. Those wild dreams of Giannis coming are gone, and none of the other top FAs fit timeline or need. Maybe a guy like Harry Giles has a breakout season, maybe the Magic give up on the injured Jonathan Isaac if Okeke plays well, maybe John Collins becomes available... but all of these involve risk-- injury history w/ Giles & Isaac, max contract expectations from Collins, who is good but not a max impact guy.

It seems like packaging LA or DDR with a younger player like Murray and/or Walker and/or a draft pick is the best option to land something plausibly good in return. I'm not anti-Aldridge, but as he'll turn 36 this season, he just doesn't fit the timeline for a future Spurs playoff contender anymore. DeRozan, for me, does nothing except keep the team treading in the average category, maybe being a .500 team. If he's a principle piece & minutes leader, the Spurs simply have no chance to be elite. I'll be thrilled if Walker takes a big step forward this year, but I'm not counting on it. Man, it's going to be a long season...

[Dejounte]

You know either way we loosing it doesn’t matter if we go with the kids or the vets we lottery bound which is great cause we not bringing in All Star players through free agency.

The only bad thing is that was really hoping that Murray and Walker would have shown that they can be part of the future at this point the answer is NOPE. Murray right now is a decent bench player one that that I noticed in pre season games is for a PG he has shown ZERO ability to drive into the paint and kick it out. And when ball is in half court he has shown ZERO ability to beat his man down and take it to the rim all he does is drives in maybe 3 feet and as soon as defense closes he passes it out.

Walker I feel for but I just don’t think he is a basketball player and I don’t think he has the mental toughness to make it in the NBA I wish and hope I am wrong.

As far as Poodle like I said before he is a good backup but he is not a starter but he still needs to work on his offense game and stop acting like a rookie and start playing like a Vet.

Then we have White a guy who I like but his foot issues are starting to remind me of KY hamstring issues.

Then we have old man Pop .........................................

In Tank I Trust ...:lma

So this was the straw that broke the camel's back. I'm tired of the conjecture. I had to self-teach myself how to make GIFS.



"Zero ability to drive into the paint and kick it out":

https://i.imgur.com/hpP3O6E.gif

"No vision":
https://i.imgur.com/J9du4TF.gif


"No vision, no passing skills":
https://i.imgur.com/8fevGYu.gif

"Zero ability to drive into the paint and find a good pass":
https://i.imgur.com/ZjTMXAf.gif

"Can't drive into the paint and make a bucket":

https://i.imgur.com/bt8O8xg.gif

"No finishing skills, can't pull off a fast break":

https://i.imgur.com/dbbK2Uk.gif

"Can't beat his man, can't drive to the basket. Didn't improve his speed or quickness":

https://i.imgur.com/Qii6PfM.gif

"He still hesitates too much":

https://i.imgur.com/cPJQpyr.gif

"Can't drive and dish":
https://i.imgur.com/jX4VJhE.gif
https://i.imgur.com/Bo2PPfg.mp4
https://i.imgur.com/Bo2PPfg.mp4

[SAGirl]

Thanks for the reviews guys. I think we won’t get to see what they can really do without White and Johnson. They were the better players in the bubble. The fact both are coming back from injury though is not a good omen.

Anyways, again thanks for the comments for those who didn’t watch it.

[illusioNtEk]

omg theres alot of idiot spurs fans up in this bitch... no wonder laker fans hate us

[PrimeMinister]

Demar, Rudy and LA in the line up together is an absolute disaster. The fact that Dejounte has found any ability to initiate the offense at all, look for his own shots while still trying to facilitate next to those guys is a miracle and basically the fucking DBZ hyperbaric training chamber of lineups.

He is noticeably more comfortable sharing the floor with the second unit guys and I'm sure once Keldon and Derrick return they will be no different. I can't be the only ones seeing the dinosaurs ice the young guys out on offense, right? Noticeable periods of time where they don't even look to feed the ball to lonnie or dejounte.

[TDomination]

i miss forbes

[John B]

17 points on 17 shots isn't much to write home about. Neither is a team-high four turnovers for your starting "point guard".

DJ has always been a solid rebounder and that should continue, but he's coming into his third year (not counting the one he missed due to injury) and he still doesn't seem to have any idea how to run the offense. He's terrible on the fast break unless he is trying to call his on number, he dribbles into traffic and gets himself stuck, and made several boneheaded passes last night specifically for that reason.

I think Murray still has potential to be used in other ways, but being our starting point guard ain't it unless he magically grows a basketball brain.

His turnovers are caused by his indecisiveness to make a pass. It would benefit him a lot if DJ focuses on scoring, rebounding and playing defense. And playing D doesn’t need gambling for steals which he occasionally gets burned, staying in front, denying the pass and making harder for the opponent to score. Unfortunately, DJ is being too cute or overhyping. Stay basic and play solid.

[TD 21]

As far as addressing things with trades this year:

The one semi-plausible trade I can think of is something involving DeRozan and salary for Blake Griffin. It kills the Spurs caproom for an extra year for sure, but I can't think of anything else that could plausibly work for any other trade partner. It makes the Spurs worse talent-wise, but the fit could have a decent result by creating more opportunities for other players at positions and roles they aren't getting enough time at now.

For the Spurs, Griffin will be a better PF than DeRozan, or at east more suited to it. He moves like busted Terry Cummings, but he's probably not any worse a defender than DeRozan at this point. And he shoots 3s, thought not well last year. He's a good passer for keeping the ball moving, good at feeding bigs down low, and would need a minutes limit giving more time to other players.

It's like trading bad for worse, but I can't see other trades that would help.

I don't even think Boston has enough room to be able to take Aldridge, what with his trade kicker and their hard cap.


Can you go on living knowing that a stranger on a message board is "really disappointed in you"?

Griffin would obviously need to be relatively healthy and look at least close to star caliber, but I could see DeRozan and Gay for him and Musa.

Would buy them another season with a veteran offensive focal point and cover the biggest positional need. He'd be a good fit with the youth too, given his point forward ability, willingness and sometimes capability of shooting 3s.

[Dejounte]

Can you go on living knowing that a stranger on a message board is "really disappointed in you"?

Griffin would obviously need to be relatively healthy and look at least close to star caliber, but I could see DeRozan and Gay for him and Musa.

Would buy them another season with a veteran offensive focal point and cover the biggest positional need. He'd be a good fit with the youth too, given his point forward ability, willingness and sometimes capability of shooting 3s.

Hey clown, here you go again stepping in and being disrespectful when nobody called you out. You're not innocent in this, so I'm not sure why you claimed to be yesterday. Fuck your condescending ass.

[TD 21]

Hey clown, here you go again stepping in and being disrespectful when nobody called you out. You're not innocent in this, so I'm not sure why you claimed to be yesterday. Fuck your condescending ass.

:lmao

[Dejounte]

:lmao

Hypocrite lmao

[tbdog]

What's up with Walker. He had a decent game before. Why was he not involved?

[daslicer]

I do laugh when people say starting Demar at PF is the answer. That's when you know you have a bad team. Even in this small ball era Demar is not capable of being a PF. This is just a bad team and it's ok that they are going to the lottery again. This team needs to keep going to the lottery until they can find their next superstar. I'm sure that's not the goal of Pop since he badly wants to go the playoffs but the irony is he's going to get them to the lottery through playing his terrible lineups.

[timvp]

What's up with Walker. He had a decent game before. Why was he not involved?

He was involved plenty. Walker just spent the game making halfhearted drives and panic-passing the instant he felt any pressure.

[Mr. Body]

What's up with Walker. He had a decent game before. Why was he not involved?

He played half the game.

[rankingtear]

What's up with Walker. He had a decent game before. Why was he not involved?

100% pop's fault. He shouldn't have been guarding Harden, Lonnie needs the ball in his hands and not guarding anyone to conserve energy. That's how you put Lonnie in a position to succeed, no off ball stuff or guarding the best best player on the other team, just put the ball in his hands and run a thousand plays for him and let him cook. You remember the Houston game when he got a thousand points? that is the real Lonnie after the game poop used the soul box on him, now we see soulless Lonnie.

[tbdog]

He was involved plenty. Walker just spent the game making halfhearted drives and panic-passing the instant he felt any pressure.

But why no effort?

[DPG21920]

I love people talking about trade values when SA never trades :lol.

They suck at trading and have no vision it’s so painfully obvious. Just a listless front office right now.

Also Pop has been so bad last couple seasons and he has to embrace change no matter what now. If not? He has to go.

[rankingtear]

I love people talking about trade values when SA never trades :lol.

They suck at trading and have no vision it’s so painfully obvious. Just a listless front office right now.

Also Pop has been so bad last couple seasons and he has to embrace change no matter what now. If not? He has to go.

It is fun reading the same shit for a 3 years straight. Way to contribute to a game thread. What do you think about the game?

[Dejounte]

Pat Williams having a Lonnie Walker type of night. 0 points in 22 minutes. Still one quarter and a half left to go in the game though.

[weebo]

:lol at those saying LW would be better on another team and then fail to give a reason why and how...

Walker has been given a chance to show what he can do...

Dude has poor court awareness, not particularly skilled at anyone thing, and worst part is ...HE'S SOFT AND HE KNOWS IT...

[r0drig0lac]

Kevin Durant....

[tbdog]

:lol at those saying LW would be better on another team and then fail to give a reason why and how...

Walker has been given a chance to show what he can do...

Dude has poor court awareness, not particularly skilled at anyone thing, and worst part is ...HE'S SOFT AND HE KNOWS IT...

Offensively, I think he has the awareness..

[poopbox]

I knew LMA dumbass would start doing nothing but shoot 3's instead of mixing 3 point shooting in with his offense...and what do you know...he sets one screen...takes one step back...and stands there waiting for the ball...and that's it...

Legit the dumbest lowest IQ basketball player I have ever seen. I have serious doubts LMA knows anything about the spurs offensive sets other than what is own individual job is...

Wish I could go back in town and tell him you can't build shoe houses in San Antonio so he would have never signed here.

Cut to the basket and Dejounte found him and then he never did it again :lol

What a fucking moron

[Collins21]

It is fun reading the same shit for a 3 years straight. Way to contribute to a game thread. What do you think about the game?

He has no thoughts on the game he's been on a kick since his free agency lies went bust.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/JeffGSpursZone/status/1340385343183400960?s=19

https://twitter.com/RealTomPetrini/status/1340381568540569601?s=19

https://twitter.com/PaulGarciaNBA/status/1340381746668445698?s=19

https://twitter.com/JeffGSpursZone/status/1340381987471843328?s=19

https://twitter.com/RealTomPetrini/status/1340383786559791110?s=19

https://twitter.com/JeffGSpursZone/status/1340382797681274886?s=19

https://twitter.com/JeffGSpursZone/status/1340385639964028929?s=19

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/JeffGSpursZone/status/1340387312530829312?s=19

https://twitter.com/JeffGSpursZone/status/1340387144880287755?s=19

https://twitter.com/RealTomPetrini/status/1340386584642916357?s=19

https://twitter.com/tom_orsborn/status/1340391017007247361?s=19

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/bNmOyoTAL18


https://youtu.be/GvMtxZQpjlQ

[DPG21920]

It is fun reading the same shit for a 3 years straight. Way to contribute to a game thread. What do you think about the game?

Cry more. How’s it different than hearing the same answers from Pop every question? And it was in reference to comments made in this thread.

[BackHome]

We are going to be so bad this season peeps better get on your blood pressure meds. Lol

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/spurs/status/1340682621223899137?s=19

New practice footage here... Vassell trying to block Murray's layup