Grades: Spurs at Grizzlies - Dec. 23, 2020

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-san-antonio-spurs-memphis-grizzlies-game-1/

Nice bounce back after that ugly preseason :tu

[lefty]

thanks

[Dejounte]

The new SL and no Lyles.... This should be an A+ for Pop.

[phxspurfan]

DeMar 28 pts 9 reb 9 ast 1 stl 1 to


looks pretty good to me


Walker with 16 pts. As mentioned before if he can put up 15-20 a game Spurs have a great shot at winning. Good prediction. I honestly did not see it coming, given his production in the preseason


Mills/Gay/Purrtl around 20 mins or less. Also good. Hope Pop sees this as the winning formula and doesn't shoe-horn the team's worst players into bad situations. Don't know if I can stand another charmin soft Purrtl jumper getting blocked at the rim.

LMA with 3 boards / getting out rebounded by everyone on the team sans Mills is not a good look. Typical lower effort game from him?

[timvp]

The new SL and no Lyles.... This should be an A+ for Pop.

I thought about giving Pop the highest grade, tbh. The exhalers would have had a collective coronary so I decided to let them get through Christmas first :tu

[mo7888]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-san-antonio-spurs-memphis-grizzlies-game-1/

Nice bounce back after that ugly preseason :tu

Grades are spot on imo.... I do wonder how you see the SL changing when White comes back?

[joeyjfive]

Hell yeah thanks for the grades as usual.

[Dejounte]

I thought about giving Pop the highest grade, tbh. The exhalers would have had a collective coronary so I decided to let them get through Christmas first :tu

I had "Cue the haters" at the end of my post initially, then I deleted it lmao

[Chomag]

Not having Forbes on this team is like having a computer mod on a video game.:lol

[Sugus]

I thought about giving Pop the highest grade, tbh. The exhalers would have had a collective coronary so I decided to let them get through Christmas first :tu

You should've, tbh, missed chance for an A+ tonight. Don't know whether you'll get many more opportunities during the season... Pop coached a perfect game tonight. Great rotations, heavy minutes to young guys, perfectly timed TOs. Nothing to complain about.

[timvp]

no Lyles

I supported the Spurs bringing him back but Lyles was so bad in the preseason that I'm now fully on board with him not being in the rotation at any point going forward unless something drastic changes.

[Sugus]

I supported the Spurs bringing him back but Lyles was so bad in the preseason that I'm now fully on board with him not being in the rotation at any point guard forward unless something drastic changes.

I'm definitely on board with not having Lyles at point guard, too, tbh :lol

[crc21209]

It’s amazing the way this team looks when there’s no Forbes. I waited and waited and waited for Pop to finally bench his ass last year and it never came (before the bubble) Thank you Milwaukee and Bud for taking him off our hands. :lol

[crc21209]

I supported the Spurs bringing him back but Lyles was so bad in the preseason that I'm now fully on board with him not being in the rotation at any point guard forward unless something drastic changes.

Yeah I was surprised Lyles didn’t get any time at all tonight but I’ll take it. I can see him being used in certain games for certain matchups or if one of Aldridge or Poetl end up in foul trouble but that’s about it...

[siraulo23]

Biggest W is definitely no Lyles :wow

[timtonymanu]

It’s amazing the way this team looks when there’s no Forbes. I waited and waited and waited for Pop to finally bench his ass last year and it never came (before the bubble) Thank you Milwaukee and Bud for taking him off our hands. :lol

crc, my dude. Haven’t seen you around these parts in a while. :toast

[PhantomDashCam]

Thanks OP.
KJ gets a shot at Spicy P next game, great test for him.

[timvp]

I'm definitely on board with not having Lyles at point guard, too, tbh :lol

:lol, tbh.

[John B]

Thanks for the grades Timvp.
I don't know if Keldon's insertion to the starting line-up was matching Kyle, who is not much bigger and doesn't impose on the paint. Because I like Keldon's energy rubbing to the guys from the get go. I hope Pop stays with him.
Murray with 21/6/9 could be higher than B+. I like Murray playing aggressive to score, and not to make a fancy pass. Great job today.
Demar would get A+ for his almost triple-double game. Demar had an answer to the Grizz every time they tried to make a come back.
Aldridge B- is accurate. It was great that his shots were going in. But who really gets too excited when your 6'11 center make more outside attempts than in the paint? And 3 rebounds? I still think he needs to establish the post every time.
Great game from Lonnie. He needs to continue the hunt. I swear his eyes lit up every time Grayson was guarding him :lol
Understandable for Vassell. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't great. Hopefully it was just 1st NBA game jitter. Spurs need at least 8pts or more from him

I really have to commend Pop for staying with the line-up and letting Lonnie rocked the rim. Fun stuff. :flag::flag::flag: Go Spurs Go

[KobesAchilles]

Poetl is a mystery to me. He is so impactful defensively but absolute garbage on the offensive side. I still can’t get over that pump fake over the point guard 3 feet from the basket only to give the opposing center time to rotate and seat his actual shot away :lol

Murray and DDR fit very well together and it makes me wonder where White fits. He just got paid so he has to start but if Lonnie keeps playing like this who does he start over? Do we need a 3rd ball handler on the floor all at once? Idk

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Pop with his best coaching performance in a long while. Great write up :tu

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/N_Magaro/status/1341997546114347009?s=19

[justinandimcool]

almost forgot what an easy win felt like tbh. against a playoff caliber team too.

felt like Bubble Spurs again, except even more mature

[spurs10]

The new SL and no Lyles.... This should be an A+ for Pop. Agreed!


I thought about giving Pop the highest grade, tbh. The exhalers would have had a collective coronary so I decided to let them get through Christmas first :tu Thanks for the great write-up!


Grades are spot on imo.... I do wonder how you see the SL changing when White comes back? I was wondering the same. With Keldon and Walker both playing like this, it's a good problem to have. Keldon was a shocker missing the preseason....wow!

[weeks]

no forbes = no problem???

[Mal]

Youngins looking good.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

With White back they have a very decent 10-man rotation if they stay healthy. Difficult to see who could be improved on in a realistic trade but getting another wing shooter for Lyles could be an interesting option down the line. Very nice to have 3 or 4 capable ballhandlers on the floor at all times.

Haven't watched the pre-season games and I thought Devin Vassell looked very big and long there. Awesome that Pop trusts him out of the gates.

[r0drig0lac]

Pop: no Forbes A++

[Shakril]

DeMar 28 pts 9 reb 9 ast 1 stl 1 to


looks pretty good to me


Walker with 16 pts. As mentioned before if he can put up 15-20 a game Spurs have a great shot at winning. Good prediction. I honestly did not see it coming, given his production in the preseason


Mills/Gay/Purrtl around 20 mins or less. Also good. Hope Pop sees this as the winning formula and doesn't shoe-horn the team's worst players into bad situations. Don't know if I can stand another charmin soft Purrtl jumper getting blocked at the rim.

LMA with 3 boards / getting out rebounded by everyone on the team sans Mills is not a good look. Typical lower effort game from him?

Charming soft Purrtl was probably one of the Big Reasons Spurs made the Turn around in the first Half. He is not there for the offense, but for the Defense. Get it in your head. Poeltl will never ever be a great Scorer.

[BillMc]

I thought Lonnie was night and day (especially on defense) between the two halves. Need to see that aggression from him.

Wish they'd found some spot minutes for Tre and Luka but not even sure they were active. Still no complaints.

[Dejounte]

The upside for the team is insane especially once Poetl takes (earns) Aldridge's place in the line-up.

[Gagnrath]

Charming soft Purrtl was probably one of the Big Reasons Spurs made the Turn around in the first Half. He is not there for the offense, but for the Defense. Get it in your head. Poeltl will never ever be a great Scorer.

But let's look at giant impact of legends like Dikembe Mutumbo, and Ben Wallace on the offensive end, you didn't see either of them putting up powder puff jumpers 1 mere step from the rum. (Not saying Jakob is in that league just using them as examples of players played for the defensive end not their offense)

[8FOR!3]

I supported the Spurs bringing him back but Lyles was so bad in the preseason that I'm now fully on board with him not being in the rotation at any point going forward unless something drastic changes.

Agreed, but also the fact that DeRozan/Gay are the PF rotation really tells me there also just isn't any room for Lyles in the rotation. Give him some burn when Rudy or DDR need a night off.

[The Truth #6]

Keldon really seems to bring out the best in others: Dejounte, Lonnie...even Pop?

[dbestpro]

I find it interesting that Forbes was one of five for the Bucks who lost to the Celtics by one point.

Also, Patty moved ahead of Allen Iverson for 99th on the all-time made 3-pointer list with 1,060.

[NASpurs]

no forbes = no problem???

Who would’ve thought? Everyone except Pop.

[JADG79]

For me Dejounte was the key in the game, very aggressive, looks like a real playmaker. Lonnie is too timid in the offense but he playing really well moving the ball.

I like the staring 5, but we will have trouble with bigger teams.

[Biggems]

I would love to see murray, kj, and vassell together for a bit from time to tie

[Biggems]

I would love to see murray, kj, and vassell together for a bit from time to tie

[Dex]

The upside for the team is insane especially once Poetl takes (earns) Aldridge's place in the line-up.

Still not ready to give up on LMA quite yet. There will be nights where the young guns aren't able to run it down the opponents throats or DeMar is off, and being able to dump the ball to LaMarcus to generate offense isn't a bad third option. It just doesn't need to be our first option.

He's gotta start knocking down those threes, though. Shooting 5 a game doesn't do much good if you are shooting 20%.

[Dejounte]

Still not ready to give up on LMA quite yet. There will be nights where the young guns aren't able to run it down the opponents throats or DeMar is off, and being able to dump the ball to LaMarcus to generate offense isn't a bad third option. It just doesn't need to be our first option.

He's gotta start knocking down those threes, though. Shooting 5 a game doesn't do much good if you are shooting 20%.

Meh, I have a belief that championship teams can afford to go in a scoring drought but they can't afford defensively being broken down.

[Dex]

I don't want to get ahead of myself here, but...

WE ARE GOING TO THE SUPERBOWL!

https://i.imgur.com/A6RiS6x.png

[Dex]

Meh, I have a belief that championship teams can afford to go in a scoring drought but they can't afford defensively being broken down.

Fair point. LMA looked absolutely flat-footed at times last night, while Jak's defensive energy really seemed to stop the bleeding and spark the team in the first quarter.

Valanciunas was getting whatever he wanted against Aldridge, then Poeltl came in and bodied him up and he was suddenly putting up airballs.

[NASpurs]

LMA is going through his usual start of the season, out of shape, tubby phase. Also can’t forget he hasn’t played since the beginning of the pandemic.

[exstatic]

Front office A+

They Billy Beaned Pop by getting rid of advanced stats bed shitters Marco and Bryn.

“You can’t start Bryn tonight, Pop”
“The lineup card is mine, and that’s the end of it”
“The lineup card is yours, but you can’t start Bryn. He no longer plays for the Spurs.”

[KobesAchilles]

The upside for the team is insane especially once Poetl takes (earns) Aldridge's place in the line-up.
Dude is very soft offensively and won’t take LMAs spot due to this reason. He can’t go up strong. He can’t finish well. He pump faked a fucking point guard 3 feet away from the basket. He is and should always be a bench piece that plays the current role he is playing. His defense is great. I was super impressed with it. But he will never get better on offense. Makes him unplayable with the starters this year.

[Dejounte]

Dude is very soft offensively and won’t take LMAs spot due to this reason. He can’t go up strong. He can’t finish well. He pump faked a fucking point guard 3 feet away from the basket. He is and should always be a bench piece that plays the current role he is playing. His defense is great. I was super impressed with it. But he will never get better on offense. Makes him unplayable with the starters this year.

People put the nail in the coffin for DJ too, and here he is now rising from the dead.

Y'all need to be patient lol

[Dejounte]

The reality with Poetl is his weakness is mental and not physical. We're not dealing with Bryn here. Poetl's mental limitations can be overcome. It will be hard, but it's possible.

He's young enough so it's not too late.

[Prime BEEF]

Biggest W is definitely no Lyles :wow
Yes that was huge. The guys played well and were entertaining to watch

[Prime BEEF]

no forbes = no problem???
Certainly helps no doubt about it

[The Truth #6]

Dude is very soft offensively and won’t take LMAs spot due to this reason. He can’t go up strong. He can’t finish well. He pump faked a fucking point guard 3 feet away from the basket. He is and should always be a bench piece that plays the current role he is playing. His defense is great. I was super impressed with it. But he will never get better on offense. Makes him unplayable with the starters this year.

I agree that he is not a strong offensive player. But offense wasn’t the problem tonight. Also, in the bigger picture, having one player who doesn’t need the ball isn’t necessarily a bad thing as long as the other four are moving it around quickly, and Yak actually helps with ball movement.

[KobesAchilles]

People put the nail in the coffin for DJ too, and here he is now rising from the dead.

Y'all need to be patient lol
Difference is that DJ actually has put in the work to be better offensively. Poetl clearly has not. Someone find that play for me where he pump fakes that midget. Like that play shows how uncomfortable he is putting the ball in the basket. That is something you learn at a very early age not to do. When you have height, just go up against the much shorter person. It’s taught in middle school ffs. Also he rarely dunks for a 7 footer and goes up soft a lot like he did last year in the bubble when we lost to Philly?

[Dejounte]

"Having a top 10 pick will guarantee us a superstar!"

https://twitter.com/primeirobasquet/status/1342134416802537472?s=19

[poopbox]

Nice win. I am concerned about LMA "set one screen and stand their" offense. That is fine against a young team like Memphis but better teams are just going to pack the paint and make penetration harder. And of course instead of mixing in 3's with his post game, his post game is now completely gone and he has substituted it with 3's. LMA is 35 with two bad knees so we really shouldn't expect much out of him.

Poeltl still isn't better than LMA but he is a much better fit for this team. His lack of scoring is way overblown because all of our guards are going to be putting up shots. We need a big who sets get screens and rolls to the rim and that is what Poeltl does. Still way to soft with his finishes, needs to finish like Ewwwwbanks who tries to dunk everything near the rim.

Gay could not have played anymore perfect. Whenever he set a screen or got a guard near him he tried to post them up, meaning it was either a mismatch or memphis had to scramble to get someone bigger on him and that caused mismatches elsewhere. It's sad LMA is either to dumb or to lazy to play like this.

If Keldon, Demar, and Gay are going to be playing the 4 this season...how does Luka get on the floor ? Interested to see what kind of teams we play where Pop would think that was a good matchup.

Vassell played well. His defense and high basketball IQ should keep him in the rotation. When him DJ and White really start playing together they are going to be a nightmare defensively. In a year we could legit have 3 of the top 15 perimeter defenders in the league. Keldon and Lonnie can be plus defenders but neither play the hounding defense the others have shown to play.

No Lyles is a good thing. He should be the break in case of emergency or injury player on this team

[exstatic]

Dude is very soft offensively and won’t take LMAs spot due to this reason. He can’t go up strong. He can’t finish well. He pump faked a fucking point guard 3 feet away from the basket. He is and should always be a bench piece that plays the current role he is playing. His defense is great. I was super impressed with it. But he will never get better on offense. Makes him unplayable with the starters this year.

LMA scored 20, and did nothing else, in a game where we were missing White, and didn’t get much scoring from Vassell. We can make up those points, collectively, and Poeltl is light years better, defensively.

[KobesAchilles]

I agree that he is not a strong offensive player. But offense wasn’t the problem tonight. Also, in the bigger picture, having one player who doesn’t need the ball isn’t necessarily a bad thing as long as the other four are moving it around quickly, and Yak actually helps with ball movement.
I’m not shitting on Jak (well I kinda am) bc he does so many things that we need. He is a good screen setter, he actually rolls, and plays stout defense.

But the thing is that DJ is gonna have people go under the screen until it’s proven he can make that 3 at a consistent rate. Everyone and there mom doesn’t even defend DDR at the 3 point line since they know he won’t shoot. The dude keeps pump faking like he’s going to shoot it too and literally none of the 4 different defenders I saw him pump fake at the 3 point line even reacted to it. Teams also are letting LMA shoot 3s as well. He has to hit them at about 35%

Adding Jak to this line up really kills our spacing

[Dejounte]

"Having a top 10 pick will guarantee us a superstar!"

https://twitter.com/primeirobasquet/status/1342134416802537472?s=19

https://twitter.com/jackfrank_jjf/status/1342019208184356864?s=19

[Mr. Body]

"Having a top 10 pick will guarantee us a superstar!"

https://twitter.com/primeirobasquet/status/1342134416802537472?s=19

Imagine hyping your sons into the NBA and nevr teaching them basketball.

[r0drig0lac]

For me Dejounte was the key in the game, very aggressive, looks like a real playmaker. Lonnie is too timid in the offense but he playing really well moving the ball.

I like the staring 5, but we will have trouble with bigger teams.

if this is the new "normal" Murray, he is already a better 2-way player than Fox, for example.

[wildbill2u]

Looks like Lyles may be the next Spur to feel the wrath of ST haters. They gotta find someone to beat up on.

[KobesAchilles]

LMA scored 20, and did nothing else, in a game where we were missing White, and didn’t get much scoring from Vassell. We can make up those points, collectively, and Poeltl is light years better, defensively.
I agree he is better defensively. That’s not even a question. But I think Pop is using him right. Until he can finish at the rim he will never be a starter. It’s not necessarily the points that are the problem for me, it’s how we score.

Jak fits a lot better with the bench than he does the starters. DDR has shown that if you spread the floor and surround him with shooters than he can excel at that offense. Jak kills that. But Jak does free up Mills and Gay for jumpers with his screens. He rebounds well for the bench when we have good rebounding from DJ. He brings defense to the bench which we in theory should have with DJ and KJ.

[Dex]

Looks like Lyles may be the next Spur to feel the wrath of ST haters. They gotta find someone to beat up on.

This is the way.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/N_Magaro/status/1341967499148091399?s=19

This is what I've been preaching forever.

We see the token Lonnie to Poetl connection in the first clip.

Unlocking this side of Lonnie will increase the ceiling of the team even more. He is an electrifying passer.

[KobesAchilles]

This is the way.
I mean I am so happy Pop is not playing him. You have no idea. He was #2 on my list last year (behind Marco) for Spurs that I hated. He doesn’t bring anything to the team. We have actual good youth and short of people being injured or resting there is no reason to play him

[BackHome]

Charming soft Purrtl was probably one of the Big Reasons Spurs made the Turn around in the first Half. He is not there for the offense, but for the Defense. Get it in your head. Poeltl will never ever be a great Scorer.

Yes we know he is a very good second unit guy but if he ever entertains the idea he thinks he should be a starter then he needs to at least score as many points as he does rebounds. He stated Spurs want him to be more aggressive on offense well as long as he keeps trying I am fine he might fail but hopefully eventually he will get better if not we draft another center who has offense and defensive skills.

[Mr. Body]

Looks like Lyles may be the next Spur to feel the wrath of ST haters. They gotta find someone to beat up on.

Yeah but he's legitimately terrible.

[BackHome]

This is the way.

I see what ya did. Lol.

[BackHome]

Charming soft Purrtl was probably one of the Big Reasons Spurs made the Turn around in the first Half. He is not there for the offense, but for the Defense. Get it in your head. Poeltl will never ever be a great Scorer.

Yes we know he is a very good second unit guy but if he ever entertains the idea he thinks he should be a starter then he needs to at least score as many points as he does rebounds. He stated Spurs want him to be more aggressive on offense well as long as he keeps trying I am fine he might fail but hopefully eventually he will get better if not we draft another center who has offense and defensive skills.

[exstatic]

I agree he is better defensively. That’s not even a question. But I think Pop is using him right. Until he can finish at the rim he will never be a starter. It’s not necessarily the points that are the problem for me, it’s how we score.

Jak fits a lot better with the bench than he does the starters. DDR has shown that if you spread the floor and surround him with shooters than he can excel at that offense. Jak kills that. But Jak does free up Mills and Gay for jumpers with his screens. He rebounds well for the bench when we have good rebounding from DJ. He brings defense to the bench which we in theory should have with DJ and KJ.

Yes, I agree that LMA and Poodle are a terrible mix, but the clock is ticking on LMAs time in SA. Poodle will have to start at the 5 after that, and he’ll do fine.

[JuneJive]

Walker's playmaking really stands out.

It can get only better from here.

Poeltl is indeed a limited offensive player, and sure you can call him soft, but he is soft with the ball in his hands. When he is crashing the off board he is very aggresive.

[R. DeMurre]

For me, Poeltl can be the Luc Longley/Andrew Bogut of this team. An efficient 7 & 7 from him with good defense in 20-26 mpg wouldn't be eye-catching numbers, but it would help the Spurs immensely.

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/qeot39l5PO8


https://youtu.be/CzkhbjdDucM


https://youtu.be/zT_t077VVao

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/Q8bR_6VySno

[Floyd Pacquiao]

I don't understand how Aldridge's 3 point shooting could have taken a step backwards so far while His mid-range jumper still looks good.

[The Truth #6]

Walker’s confidence was much better. Hitting the first 3 likely helped. I think he had a role that made sense for him: shoot threes, play defense, drive the lane when it’s open. He’s basically learning to react. If he gets more trust and playing time I think he can become more assertive. I think it’s going to be a process, but played well last night.

[SpursDynasty85]

I don't understand how Aldridge's 3 point shooting could have taken a step backwards so far while His mid-range jumper still looks good.

The last time he was playing regularly was like in March. His midrange is with him when he wakes up. His 3 pt game is something he needs to build into his NBA game still. Hopefully he gets incrementally better at it as the season progresses.

[John B]

https://twitter.com/N_Magaro/status/1341967499148091399?s=19

This is what I've been preaching forever.

We see the token Lonnie to Poetl connection in the first clip.

Unlocking this side of Lonnie will increase the ceiling of the team even more. He is an electrifying passer.
Great point. And his quick first step just breaks defender every time. I think Pop sees that and hoping learn to trust the guy the same he let Manu be Manu.

There’s still so much more talent with our young players, and scary exciting to unwrap and see what they become

[SpursDynasty85]

Was it just me or did that Grizzlies team seemed like a for sure lottery team despite contending for the playoffs last year. I suppose Jackson would make a pretty big difference. Hopefully Pop integrates White by reducing the vets minutes.

[John B]

Walker’s confidence was much better. Hitting the first 3 likely helped. I think he had a role that made sense for him: shoot threes, play defense, drive the lane when it’s open. He’s basically learning to react. If he gets more trust and playing time I think he can become more assertive. I think it’s going to be a process, but played well last night.
It’s crazy how Spurs could have several elite 2ways in Murray, White, Keldon, Vassell, Lonnie

[The Truth #6]

It’s crazy how Spurs could have several elite 2ways in Murray, White, Keldon, Vassell, Lonnie

Absolutely. Anything from Luka is extra. I hope he gets the nod over Lyles.

[phxspurfan]

I don't want to get ahead of myself here, but...

WE ARE GOING TO THE SUPERBOWL!

https://i.imgur.com/A6RiS6x.png

:danceclub :danceclub :flag: :flag:

[phxspurfan]

Was it just me or did that Grizzlies team seemed like a for sure lottery team despite contending for the playoffs last year. I suppose Jackson would make a pretty big difference. Hopefully Pop integrates White by reducing the vets minutes.

They need Jackson back

[exstatic]

It’s crazy how Spurs could have several elite 2ways in Murray, White, Keldon, Vassell, Lonnie

Our cupboard is certainly no longer bare with two ways, but Lonnie is barely average right now, defensively, and Murray is not elite offensively. The middle three are scary good on both sides of the ball, though.

[Sugus]

Difference is that DJ actually has put in the work to be better offensively. Poetl clearly has not. Someone find that play for me where he pump fakes that midget. Like that play shows how uncomfortable he is putting the ball in the basket. That is something you learn at a very early age not to do. When you have height, just go up against the much shorter person. It’s taught in middle school ffs. Also he rarely dunks for a 7 footer and goes up soft a lot like he did last year in the bubble when we lost to Philly?

Disagree. Maybe it wasn't on full display last night, and I wasn't expecting it to be, but Poeltl started this (pre)season by markedly trying to force his offensive game. He was backing down dudes in the post the second preseason game IIRC, and missed the shots, but that's the baby steps he needs to be taking. Of course, you'll think "why would I ever want Poeltl to back someone down?", and to an extent I agree :lol, but as others have said, it's a mental thing with him. I wouldn't be surprised to see Poeltl try to score for himself a bit more, here and there, and ESPECIALLY once White gets back on the team. They have an even better connection than Lonnie does with Jak. Watch out for it.

He's not there yet, but the window isn't closed or near it. I also think once he gets the starting job from LMA, it'll help his confidence even more, similarly to White who vastly improved once he started games.

[Sugus]

https://twitter.com/N_Magaro/status/1341967499148091399?s=19

This is what I've been preaching forever.

We see the token Lonnie to Poetl connection in the first clip.

Unlocking this side of Lonnie will increase the ceiling of the team even more. He is an electrifying passer.

Yeah man!! I was jumping on my seat last night, having Playmaker Lonnie back after a poor preseason showing. He's really growing in his IQ and understanding the court, passing angles, and expanding that part of his game. He definitely wasn't making these passes his rookie seasons, and was simply a scorer in Austin. And to see him throw down dunks with authority is icing on the cake.

People are way too impatient... Guy's turned 22 only 10 days ago. Ten years ago, he'd still be in college. You can't see him struggling and just write him off due to a few bad outings...

[Dejounte]

Yeah man!! I was jumping on my seat last night, having Playmaker Lonnie back after a poor preseason showing. He's really growing in his IQ and understanding the court, passing angles, and expanding that part of his game. He definitely wasn't making these passes his rookie seasons, and was simply a scorer in Austin. And to see him throw down dunks with authority is icing on the cake.

People are way too impatient... Guy's turned 22 only 10 days ago. Ten years ago, he'd still be in college. You can't see him struggling and just write him off due to a few bad outings...

Lonnie's extension is next...

I hope (and actually expect) him not to blow up TOO much this season. Locking him up on a contract similar to DJ or maybe less would be a great deal. That way, with his potential there's a chance for him to exceed the value of that contract. Here's hoping he doesn't grow too much of an ego. Or maybe he'll force himself to become a restricted free agent.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

They looked good for long stretches on offense, which is a plus. Hopefully they will get better on defense.

[Chinook]

Nice win. I am concerned about LMA "set one screen and stand their" offense.

It's called a pick-n-pop.


And of course instead of mixing in 3's with his post game, his post game is now completely gone and he has substituted it with 3's

Just irrational hate here. Aldridge is shooting so many three because they're telling him to. He's clearly not comfortable there. Acting like he's at fault for moving out the post makes no sense.


Poeltl still isn't better than LMA but he is a much better fit for this team. His lack of scoring is way overblown because all of our guards are going to be putting up shots. We need a big who sets get screens and rolls to the rim and that is what Poeltl does.

Poeltl's inability to shoot makes him a bad fit for the starters, especially if that's going to include all of Murray, White and DeRozan. Aldridge is popping and shooting threes to give guys space, so they can't "pack the paint". With Poeltl, he can give some vertical spacing by rolling hard, but him not being able to choose whether he pops or rolls limits what a defense has to think about with him. That he's soft and hesitant means him rolling isn't much of a threat.

There are reasons to want to move on from LMA and be content/excited for Poeltl, but how they play the screen game isn't one of them.

[LurkingSpursFan]

Last 4-5 years Spurs are drafting higher and more talented players which can be molded into 2 way players developmentally. With lower draft picks, Spurs realize that 3D is the limit.

[John B]

Absolutely. Anything from Luka is extra. I hope he gets the nod over Lyles.
The potentisl on Luka offensively is great, range, handles like a guard, can pass. Defensively though, he needs a lot more to earn minutes. And that barely 6’11 wingspan for his size, yikes

[Dejounte]

"Having a top 10 pick will guarantee us a superstar!"

https://twitter.com/primeirobasquet/status/1342134416802537472?s=19

https://twitter.com/DotsByJT/status/1342147810045677568?s=19

[talkspurs]

Lonnie's extension is next...

I hope (and actually expect) him not to blow up TOO much this season. Locking him up on a contract similar to DJ or maybe less would be a great deal. That way, with his potential there's a chance for him to exceed the value of that contract. Here's hoping he doesn't grow too much of an ego. Or maybe he'll force himself to become a restricted free agent.

With what he is currently doing I think anything over the MLE would be an overpay and even that might be to much. Now if he starts to show confidence and get something going then it can be reevaulated but if you gave him the same as murray you would be overpaying him.

[Dejounte]

With what he is currently doing I think anything over the MLE would be an overpay and even that might be to much. Now if he starts to show confidence and get something going then it can be reevaulated but if you gave him the same as murray you would be overpaying him.

It's a 5-7 million difference between the MLE and DJ's contract

MLE = approx 10 million
DJ's contract = approx 16 mil

I don't think it's deal breaker to sign him to a contract similar to DJ, especially with the way contracts for players increase every year

This is all assuming Lonnie doesn't fall off the cliff production wise

[Mr. Body]

Walker displaying playmaking capabilities is such a massive bonus. I'm as glad as everybody to see his confidence and how the game is slowing down/expanding for him. Another playmaker on the wing just increases the threat.

[Biggems]

A very good start to the season. The only issue I had with the game, was the few lulls in the 2nd half, where the O got stagnant cause of solo ball. They kept letting Memphis hang around, until the 3pt barrage in the 4th. 3 straight possessions DMR did nothing, another time it was Mills, and another was Murray. Our D did step up bug when our O was messing up. So, other than that, we played a great game. I loved the way we shared the wealth and the energy and effort

[talkspurs]

It's a 5-7 million difference between the MLE and DJ's contract

MLE = approx 10 million
DJ's contract = approx 16 mil

I don't think it's deal breaker to sign him to a contract similar to DJ, especially with the way contracts for players increase every year

This is all assuming Lonnie doesn't fall off the cliff production wise

6-7 mil does make a difference especially when the player is not worth it. If you look at the cap and white gets 1/6 DJm gets 1/6 lonnie gets 1/6 that is now half the cap gone and we still have 12 players to sign. Also when you start looking at KJ and Vassel that will make it harder to pay them without going into the tax. If lonnie starts improving then great. Last night was probably his 2nd best game he has ever played only beat by the houston game.

[Dejounte]

6-7 mil does make a difference especially when the player is not worth it. If you look at the cap and white gets 1/6 DJm gets 1/6 lonnie gets 1/6 that is now half the cap gone and we still have 12 players to sign. Also when you start looking at KJ and Vassel that will make it harder to pay them without going into the tax. If lonnie starts improving then great. Last night was probably his 2nd best game he has ever played only beat by the houston game.

I mean, I agree with all that, I said what I said on the basis that Lonnie continues to improve...at least enough to be a core piece.

[Sugus]

6-7 mil does make a difference especially when the player is not worth it. If you look at the cap and white gets 1/6 DJm gets 1/6 lonnie gets 1/6 that is now half the cap gone and we still have 12 players to sign. Also when you start looking at KJ and Vassel that will make it harder to pay them without going into the tax. If lonnie starts improving then great. Last night was probably his 2nd best game he has ever played only beat by the houston game.

Not saying I disagree with you (we should be wary of locking ourselves up into roleplayers taking up a bunch of the cap), but when you think about it, Lonnie having the second best game of his career in the first game of the season after an off-season of working on his game (I'm counting the pandemic window as the actual off-season here), it's an encouraging sign, don't you think?

At the end of the day, signing players isn't a death sentence. If you need to make room for a FA (unlikely scenario for the Spurs, but could happen), you can just trade one of the contracts. The problem is when you give big contracts to players who don't play up to their contract, AND are an undesireable archetype for the league. An athletic, playmaking, shooting, 22-24 year old wing? Yeah, that's exactly on demand in the modern market. I wouldn't worry about any deal we sign Lonnie to (within reason), unless something happens to him or his body, tbh.

[Sugus]

Lonnie's extension is next...

I hope (and actually expect) him not to blow up TOO much this season. Locking him up on a contract similar to DJ or maybe less would be a great deal. That way, with his potential there's a chance for him to exceed the value of that contract. Here's hoping he doesn't grow too much of an ego. Or maybe he'll force himself to become a restricted free agent.

For sure. I expect the next season to be "his year". People (well, the ones claiming for him to be traded in the preseason threads) forget just how raw he was coming into the league, and how far he's come as a player. We'd all like him to be Houston Lonnie every night, but that's not realistic (yet?). I'm thinking he continues to build on his assist/playmaking role this season, whilst learning to pick his spots on offense and get solid on D, and then next season he comes in and puts it all together, to become our second best wing player (after Keldon, of course). The fact that next season would be when DD and LMA both leave the team, and create a touches/offensive vacuum, strengthens my theory.

I don't see him growing too much of an ego, tbh, not in the negative way at least. The guy's humble and has expressed nothing but gratitude at every turn, and is by all accounts a great teammate and person. Not like some secretive Nephew we're familiar with...

[RC_Drunkford]

Difference is that DJ actually has put in the work to be better offensively. Poetl clearly has not. Someone find that play for me where he pump fakes that midget. Like that play shows how uncomfortable he is putting the ball in the basket. That is something you learn at a very early age not to do. When you have height, just go up against the much shorter person. It’s taught in middle school ffs. Also he rarely dunks for a 7 footer and goes up soft a lot like he did last year in the bubble when we lost to Philly?

He said he worked on his offense in the offseason. He said the same last year. I assume he is what he is

[exstatic]

Last 4-5 years Spurs are drafting higher and more talented players which can be molded into 2 way players developmentally. With lower draft picks, Spurs realize that 3D is the limit.

Half and half. DJ, Derrick, and Keldon were all selected at 29. The ones picked higher, with the exception of Devin at#11 seem to be more questionable. Lonnie could go either way, and Sammich is downright dubious.

[talkspurs]

Not saying I disagree with you (we should be wary of locking ourselves up into roleplayers taking up a bunch of the cap), but when you think about it, Lonnie having the second best game of his career in the first game of the season after an off-season of working on his game (I'm counting the pandemic window as the actual off-season here), it's an encouraging sign, don't you think?

At the end of the day, signing players isn't a death sentence. If you need to make room for a FA (unlikely scenario for the Spurs, but could happen), you can just trade one of the contracts. The problem is when you give big contracts to players who don't play up to their contract, AND are an undesireable archetype for the league. An athletic, playmaking, shooting, 22-24 year old wing? Yeah, that's exactly on demand in the modern market. I wouldn't worry about any deal we sign Lonnie to (within reason), unless something happens to him or his body, tbh.

Encouraging? eh it isnt discouraging but it is stil one game. He also started off kind of slow and turned it on latter. if he plays like he did in the second half then it wont be so bad but lets see him string the game together. I do like some of the passes he did but he needs to stay involved in the game.

While 16 mil is not hugh if he becomes a nothing player it could be hard to move him. Yes athletic players are in demand but there are also several that are not in the league also. If he puts several good game together then he would not be bad to have. I dont get why people are so into him and so anti Murray. the way people talk about him he is a young Jordan.

[BackHome]

Lol I don't think anyone has ever compared his potential to Jordan that might be taking it a tad bit to far. And to be honest as much grief as Walker has gotten DJ had probably gotten twice as much as he has been with us longer and on a big contract. It was nice to see them though both have a good game and I really hope they can improve because we need them both to achieve there max talent level if we ever want to be successful in winning games in the Playoffs.

One thing that I hate on this forum is that for some reason there is always by best player vs your best player in fighting. To me I think each one brings something different to the team and they all like each other and get along. For me that is great it keeps the Spurs cultural going less likely for a player to leave if they happy and players usually play better when they in a good environment.

[TD 21]

Surprised at the rotation, but wonder whether it was due to matchups. Of course, after that performance and given that Johnson is probably the best option to defend Siakam anyway, he has to go back to it, but I'm still not convinced it'll be utilized or can hold up as a constant.

[cjw]

It’s amazing the way this team looks when there’s no Forbes. I waited and waited and waited for Pop to finally bench his ass last year and it never came (before the bubble) Thank you Milwaukee and Bud for taking him off our hands. :lol

We should all be thankful for Forbes. Without him, there is no way the Spurs would have been in position to draft Vassell.

[talkspurs]

Lol I don't think anyone has ever compared his potential to Jordan that might be taking it a tad bit to far. And to be honest as much grief as Walker has gotten DJ had probably gotten twice as much as he has been with us longer and on a big contract. It was nice to see them though both have a good game and I really hope they can improve because we need them both to achieve there max talent level if we ever want to be successful in winning games in the Playoffs.

One thing that I hate on this forum is that for some reason there is always by best player vs your best player in fighting. To me I think each one brings something different to the team and they all like each other and get along. For me that is great it keeps the Spurs cultural going less likely for a player to leave if they happy and players usually play better when they in a good environment.

I have not seen anyone mention him I said how people talk about him. They always talk about his athleticism and skill. Jordan also had heart and was a much better player. Lonnie to me doesnt have the heart and killer instinct. I agree that it is good they both had a good game. Dj is on a bigger contract but he has also played better. Lonnie has had about 5-6 good games (without looking) and I have seen some say he could be a perennial all star if he puts it together.

I agree and I was not trying to put them against one another and also that they bring different things to the team. Most people will stay where they like working even if they make less money. This is part of the reason I think we were able to keep the big 3 together. If they are not happy I think they will look for another place to work (im using work as I believe this is why more people leave a job for a new one).

[KobesAchilles]

Disagree. Maybe it wasn't on full display last night, and I wasn't expecting it to be, but Poeltl started this (pre)season by markedly trying to force his offensive game. He was backing down dudes in the post the second preseason game IIRC, and missed the shots, but that's the baby steps he needs to be taking. Of course, you'll think "why would I ever want Poeltl to back someone down?", and to an extent I agree :lol, but as others have said, it's a mental thing with him. I wouldn't be surprised to see Poeltl try to score for himself a bit more, here and there, and ESPECIALLY once White gets back on the team. They have an even better connection than Lonnie does with Jak. Watch out for it.

He's not there yet, but the window isn't closed or near it. I also think once he gets the starting job from LMA, it'll help his confidence even more, similarly to White who vastly improved once he started games.
Sugs, he goes up soft man. That’s not even disputable.

[Sugus]

Sugs, he goes up soft man. That’s not even disputable.

Yes - but my point is, going up soft = / = "not putting in the work to get better offensively". The latter is clearly false, and Poeltl's play so far points to him trying to expand his offensive game.

[Sugus]

Encouraging? eh it isnt discouraging but it is stil one game. He also started off kind of slow and turned it on latter. if he plays like he did in the second half then it wont be so bad but lets see him string the game together. I do like some of the passes he did but he needs to stay involved in the game.

While 16 mil is not hugh if he becomes a nothing player it could be hard to move him. Yes athletic players are in demand but there are also several that are not in the league also. If he puts several good game together then he would not be bad to have. I dont get why people are so into him and so anti Murray. the way people talk about him he is a young Jordan.

Well, yeah, it's only been one game - there's not much of a sample size, for obvious reasons. I was just pointing out that it's funny/interesting that he's "hit the ground running" and had an above-average first season game, great for his standard. The rest of your argument presumes the Spurs would give Lonnie 16M/per without him stepping up his game, which is just not realistic. We have this entire season to see what he's worked on and developed, before we can even begin thinking about an extension - so I'm not worried about the Spurs overpaying him. Yet.

Oh, and people (me at least) are into him because he's got all the tools (athleticism, shooting, passing) and it's a matter of putting it all together. I don't think he's the next Jordan (he sure jumps like it tho), but I definitely think his ceiling is higher than DJ's (who's also older and has been in the league longer, meaning his current play is much closer to his ceiling than Lonnie's). But it's certainly a personal preference at heart.

[Slippy]

We could of been looking at this version of spurs last season.

All you really needed was Bryn Forbes out. Addition by subrtraction certainly applies here.

[spurs10]

So did who is in the SL after White returns and is back to speed?

[Atl Spur]

I think white will be fine with a Manu role if pop asked.

[phxspurfan]

For me, Poeltl can be the Luc Longley/Andrew Bogut of this team. An efficient 7 & 7 from him with good defense in 20-26 mpg wouldn't be eye-catching numbers, but it would help the Spurs immensely.

Sure, we can get that right now from DrewDaTower. Didnt need to reward Purrtl with a nice fat contract for that low level of production.


If he wasnt a high draft pick by the Raptors, he wouldnt have sniffed that deal. He would be out of the league playing in Europe or on a 2 way.


As low as I am on Sammich, I'd rather seem him do his poor man's Diaw impression than Purrt block a shot, grab 3 boards and pump fake another PG in 20 floor minutes for a game check. This is the fucking NBA, the supposed best talent on Earth.

[TDMVPDPOY]

WTF nba.com dont have the game highlights but morants 44pt bs...fkn horseshit

[offset formation]

I think white will be fine with a Manu role if pop asked.

Keldon has said he would.

[RC_Drunkford]

Yes - but my point is, going up soft = / = "not putting in the work to get better offensively". The latter is clearly false, and Poeltl's play so far points to him trying to expand his offensive game.

there is nothing in Poeltl's game that points to him trying to expand his offensive game. The only reason we know about it is because he has talked about working on it. He's worked on it for 2 years now with Spurs coaches and Tim Duncan, the best PF ever. And he has shown 0 improvement on that end. That should tell you everything you need to know

[JeffDuncan]

From the article, something I thought was worth adding:

-------
Keldon Johnson

... Johnson was also attentive on defense and didn’t hesitate to stick his nose in the middle of the action. ...
-------

In 32 minutes of play he committed only one foul. That's impressive, especially under the circumstances. His first game action, not in game shape yet, plays aggressively with high energy, the league getting all touchy feely about fouls, and yet, despite all that, not even a hint of him getting in foul trouble. I like it. (And yes, the refs were calling things -- Brooks fouled out for Memphis.)

So I thought I'd mention that.

[spurs10]

Keldon has said he would. It will be interesting to see who Pop thinks will have the most impact off the bench and who we need against the other team's starters.

[talkspurs]

this is part of what Yahoo had about KJ and I agree,

"If a young player misses all of preseason due to a foot injury and coach Gregg Popovich starts him anyways, that should get your attention."

I also agree that him being aggressive and onlyhaveing one foul is good.

[R. DeMurre]

Sure, we can get that right now from DrewDaTower. Didnt need to reward Purrtl with a nice fat contract for that low level of production.



As low as I am on Sammich, I'd rather seem him do his poor man's Diaw impression than Purrt block a shot, grab 3 boards and pump fake another PG in 20 floor minutes for a game check. This is the fucking NBA, the supposed best talent on Earth.

Eubanks and Poeltl aren't interchangable. Poeltl is taller, has a better wingspan, and has better offensive and defensive numbers. Eubanks last year had a BPM of -1.7, a DBPM of -0.3, and a VORP of exactly 0.0. Poeltl had a BPM of +2.5, a DBPM of +2.0, and a VORP of 1.3.


https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=poeltja01&p1yrfrom=2020&player_id2=eubandr01&p2yrfrom=2020

[phxspurfan]

Eubanks and Poeltl aren't interchangable. Poeltl is taller, has a better wingspan, and has better offensive and defensive numbers. Eubanks last year had a BPM of -1.7, a DBPM of -0.3, and a VORP of exactly 0.0. Poeltl had a BPM of +2.5, a DBPM of +2.0, and a VORP of 1.3.


https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=poeltja01&p1yrfrom=2020&player_id2=eubandr01&p2yrfrom=2020

Those metrics are meaningless, considering

- Eubanks was only put in when games were out of hand, which is mostly because we were being pummeled for the most past last year
- Eubanks was likely playing with teammates who weren't playing hard anymore, and we were being blown out. They weren't running plays or executing them very poorly, and no one was setting him up well
- Eubanks had a much smaller sample size in terms of minutes, and he was likely playing with end of bench guys versus Purrtl playing with starters or the main bench unit
- The team sucked ass last year, and so the VORP/impact toward winning/performance type stats doesn't work, as in wins he likely didn't play. With our team last year when we won, we weren't blowing anyone out usually. And we were usually getting our shit pushed in.

Look, I can cherry pick stats too:

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=poeltja01&p1yrfrom=2020&player_id2=eubandr01&p2yrfrom=2020

Total minutes played: Eubanks 272 - Purrtl 1171 (Purrtl played 430% more minutes than Drew)

FG%: Eubanks .642 - Purrtl .624 (which the eye test verifies. Eubanks goes up strong, Purrtl is a weak POS)

eFG%: Eubanks .649 - Purrtl .624 (Eubanks' advanced/effective FG% went up, Purrtl is what he is)

Total Rebounds per 36 minutes: Eubanks 11.3 - Purrtl 11.5 (Eubanks equaled Purrtl's rebounding numbers, while Purrtl played with much better teammates, and Eubanks played in garbage time)

FT%: Eubanks 77% - Purrtl 47% (wtf 47% for a guy paid starter money...didn't even notice Purrtl was this bad in this dept. while Eubanks shooting a very respectable % for a center)

Total Blocks per 36 minutes: Eubanks 2.3 - Purrtl 2.9 (not that much different. Ofc Purrtl is better at blocking shots, but the per 36 shows they both have skills there)

Total Points per 36 minutes: Eubanks 14.2 - Purrtl 11.4 (close, but Eubanks can score more efficiently per the eFG, so this also makes sense to see in the per 36 point totals.)

Offensive Rating per 100 posessions: Eubanks 120 - Purrtl 125 (comparable offensively)

Defensive Rating per 100 posessions: Eubanks 111 - Purrtl 108 (comparable defensively)

2020-2021 Salary: Eubanks $1.6MM - Purrtl $8.1MM (Purrtl getting paid 5x more than Drew, both on new contracts.)

Basically the point is clear, Purrtl didn't deserve that contract at all. Eubanks, while not a stud, in very limited minutes, put up very similar numbers to Purrtl's strengths (rebounding, blocks, defense) and shat on him on the offensive side (points, shooting %). Not saying Eubanks should start or anything, but Purrtl needs to step it up and earn his paycheck. So far, Eubanks is the much better value for the money we pay him.


Oh and if Eubanks starts hitting 3s at more than 35%, this argument is fucking over.

[exstatic]

Drew’s main issue is that while he has decent hops, he’s pretty pedestrian, laterally, which is where good to great defenders make their bones.

[phxspurfan]

Drew’s main issue is that while he has decent hops, he’s pretty pedestrian, laterally, which is where good to great defenders make their bones.

Agree. I always saw in him a poor ban's Baynes. Purrtl obviously has a lot more potential being taller and longer, with more capability to switch. But he's not fulfilling that at all. As has been said, he has not gotten better in ample time. He's 24 and was drafted when he was 20 IIRC. Meanwhile Drew seems to be putting in the work and improving, and he's 22.

[R. DeMurre]

Agree. I always saw in him a poor ban's Baynes. Purrtl obviously has a lot more potential being taller and longer, with more capability to switch. But he's not fulfilling that at all. As has been said, he has not gotten better in ample time. He's 24 and was drafted when he was 20 IIRC. Meanwhile Drew seems to be putting in the work and improving, and he's 22.

Drew is 23 and turns 24 on Feb 1st, which is about 5 weeks away. I get your opinion that Poeltl has underperformed, but the idea that the Spurs could simply replace Poeltl with Eubanks and not have it affect winning in a big way just doesn't hold water for me.

[C-Dub]

AGREED. Jakob is a better player and has a better basketball IQ than Eubanks and it's not even close. I like Drew but he's no defensive presence as Poeltl by far and offensively he's about even but not even sure about that sense he's only performed against G-League competition and garbage time NBA competition in his career.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/AssassinateHate/status/1342649883287805952

Impressive.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/PubSportsRadio/status/1342646719142621185

LMAO

[BackHome]

I would like to see Eubanks get some time at PF vs Center if he can show he can hit from the outside and guard PF that would be good for his career. Yeah Poodle what can ya say he is kinda the girl you don’t want your friends to see ya with. If I think of him as a potential starter that upsets my delicate stomach but if you look at him as a bench player then I can handle that. But it still drives me crazy that this kid is in the NBA and has ZERO offensive moves and not only that he still sucks at the free throw line like that really shows your not working on your game for sure.

[objective]

A game without Forbes, Belineli, or Lyles was a dream come true.