How many 1st round picks have we wasted on international stiffs?

[kht]

Outside of a 3 pointer made, Luka looks nothing like an NBA prospect. He can't finish and has stone feet.

I don't get why time and time again we roll the dice on an international project when we could just take a high floor type athlete in college. It's just a waste of a first round pick.

Ironically enough, the gems (Scola and Dragic), we did happen to hit on, we gave away.

[gospursgojas]

By God’s grace we still hit gold with Keldon 10 picks later. But jeez what a waste of a 19th pick.

Imagine if we had Thybulle, Williams, Clark, or Bazley. I mean they could at least contribute SOMETHING.

[John B]

Don't get me started with Scola :lol
In fairness, Samanic has always been 3 years project. He's only 20 or will be 21. But he's a big who got all the skills, but needs to be stronger. If he can consistently hit the 3's, rebound, and put a big body on people, he's what the FO was looking for.

[itzsoweezee]

I said Luka Sandwich was stiff after that fake NBA bubble game and people got outraged. Stone feet is a very appropriate description for his supposed athleticism. He looks like someone who started playing basketball at 17.

[phxspurfan]

Ironically enough, the gems (Scola and Dragic), we did happen to hit on, we gave away.

Dragic was a Suns pick (steal)

[phxspurfan]

He looks like someone who started playing basketball at 17.

My thoughts exactly. What 1st round pick takes 2+ years to be "ready" to play any minutes at the NBA level? Most good players played in their early teens (middle school), especially pro league guys who were taller than everyone back then. This dude seems to have the same feel for bball as someone who goes ice skating for the first time.

[spurraider21]

at this point his ceiling looks like dario saric

[Uriel]

Weren’t people saying Samanic would’ve been a top 10 pick if he were in this year’s draft instead of last year’s?

[phxspurfan]

And btw here is a list of international absolute shit shows of picks Spurs have made after they hit their TP/Manu home runs (not counting Scola, who was actually good but Spurs mis-managed bringing him over, and not counting players drafted for other teams via draft day trade):

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/draft.html

Robertas Javtokas (Lithuania)
Ian Mahinmi (France)
Nando De Cola (France)*
Ryan Richards (UK)
Adam Hanga (Hungary)
Livio Jean-Charles (France)
Nikola Milutinov (Serbia)
Luka Samanic (Croatia)


*after this abomination of a pick and the resulting experience / bouncing this shithead back to Euroleagues, Spurs FO had been burnt and started drafting more American players

[phxspurfan]

Weren’t people saying Samanic would’ve been a top 10 pick if he were in this year’s draft instead of last year’s?

I wouldn't doubt it. Spurs crazy success with Euros has had front offices league wide overvaluing Euros since 2001. There's a laundry list of absolutely terrible Euro picks in the last 2 decades of drafts.

That being said, the chance at drafting a Nowitzki/Ginobili/Parker/Doncic is very intriguing to many a FO exec. Especially considering how heavily scouted the US/NCAA scene is, and unless you have a top 3 pick, you are likely not going to get any generational talent anyway.

[paperboy77]

Don't get me started with Scola :lol
In fairness, Samanic has always been 3 years project. He's only 20 or will be 21. But he's a big who got all the skills, but needs to be stronger. If he can consistently hit the 3's, rebound, and put a big body on people, he's what the FO was looking for.

So what skills does this guy have? What you are describing is a pie in the sky.

[phxspurfan]

So what skills does this guy have? What you are describing is a pie in the sky.

His skills are being tall and 20 years old.

Same way Kawhi's skills were having 7'+ wingspan and being 20 when we drafted him.

The rest is up to his work ethic and development staff's ability to teach him a jumper and other drills to improve his viability.

[paperboy77]

I said Luka Sandwich was stiff after that fake NBA bubble game and people got outraged. Stone feet is a very appropriate description for his supposed athleticism. He looks like someone who started playing basketball at 17.

You are letting him off the hook too easily. The guy just doesn't realize how lucky he is. Never played against others that had a lot to gain. Also letting Pop off the hook. You could say he hasn't put Luka in too many situations. Having said that... Luka is responsible for himself and therefore should look like he's trying when he does get minutes.

[NASpurs]

Has the skillset to join Dragan Bender in Tel Aviv in a few years.

[paperboy77]

His skills are being tall and 20 years old.

Same way Kawhi's skills were having 7'+ wingspan and being 20 when we drafted him.

The rest is up to his work ethic and development staff's ability to teach him a jumper and other drills to improve his viability.

Meh... I call bullshit.

[paperboy77]

His skills are being tall and 20 years old.

Same way Kawhi's skills were having 7'+ wingspan and being 20 when we drafted him.

The rest is up to his work ethic and development staff's ability to teach him a jumper and other drills to improve his viability.

His work ethic seems non existent. He's not taking the challenge of KNOWING he'll only play minimal minutes and TRYING to make an impact.

[J_Paco]

This thread is stupid.

Of course with fucking hindsight you can pick apart any team's draft history & complain about all their misses.

If the kid goes his entire rookie contract without a role or craving out rotational minutes, then he's a bust and lost cause. Oh well, it happens to every team and the team still found another quality, late 1st - round pick in Keldon Johnson.

[J_Paco]

His work ethic seems non existent. He's not taking the challenge of KNOWING he'll only play minimal minutes and TRYING to make an impact.

How does that speak to his work ethic? Are you in the gym with him or at the practice facility watching him being lazy?

[Sugus]

His skills are being tall and 20 years old.

No, they aren't, you're being purposefully short-sighted for the sake of "being right". Will a thread like this be made after every bad game by Luka? Let's go through this, once again - he's got unusually fluid handles for someone his size, unusually good shooting stroke for someone his size, and an above-average jumping/leaping ability, again for someone his size. He's lacking in many facets of the game - not denying it whatsoever - but to revisionalistically wonder "what his skills are" when RC literally had a post-draft interview detailing them, is just stupid, tbh.


Same way Kawhi's skills were having 7'+ wingspan and being 20 when we drafted him.

No they weren't - go watch his college tape or draft profiles, and see for yourself. Revisionism again. He had a good midrange game, was strong on the glass and rebounds, had a build that looked to be able to put on weight, and was also unusually fluid for his size/length. Of course, the Spurs developed him greatly, but to act like his only "skills" were his age and wingspan (both of which are, literally, not skills) is simply retarded.

[Sugus]

This thread is stupid.

My hot take is that any thread made less than an hour after a game, is inherently stupid. People can't keep it in their pants, and think it through again with a cool head, it seems.

[BackHome]

I always remember a take that Sean Elliott would say when a rookie played bad for any team and there was talk about that player being a bust. He said teams that draft an 18 or 19 year old kid and expecting them to be instant NBA Stars are delusional as it takes really 3 years for these young players to develop. He basically said hey if your drafting players that need to be developed then give them time to be developed before you give up on them

[cd98]

In fairness, most of those drafted came in the last 3 picks of the draft. Those kind of players largely miss in the NBA and the Spurs were drafting those guys and keeping them overseas so they could keep the draft pick but keep their NBA rosters stacked.

[exstatic]

And btw here is a list of international absolute shit shows of picks Spurs have made after they hit their TP/Manu home runs (not counting Scola, who was actually good but Spurs mis-managed bringing him over, and not counting players drafted for other teams via draft day trade):

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/draft.html

Robertas Javtokas (Lithuania) second rounder, horribly injured in a motorcycle crash. Dunked on an 11 ft rim.
Ian Mahinmi (France) not sure what you were expecting. Picked #28 in the draft, played over 600 NBA games. Not a bust.
Nando De Cola (France)* second rounder
Ryan Richards (UK) second rounder
Adam Hanga (Hungary) second rounder
Livio Jean-Charles (France) knee injury
Nikola Milutinov (Serbia) wasted pick
Luka Samanic (Croatia) TBD


*after this abomination of a pick and the resulting experience / bouncing this shithead back to Euroleagues, Spurs FO had been burnt and started drafting more American players

You basically destroyed the case by naming almost all second round picks that have quite a high wash out rate, regardless of nationality.

[Sugus]

I always remember a take that Sean Elliott would say when a rookie played bad for any team and there was talk about that player being a bust. He said teams that draft an 18 or 19 year old kid and expecting them to be instant NBA Stars are delusional as it takes really 3 years for these young players to develop. He basically said hey if your drafting players that need to be developed then give them time to be developed before you give up on them

Top lottery players like Doncic being good right out of the gates has spoiled modern NBA fans into thinking this instant success can be replicated. To think Timmy came into the league after 4 years of college and was still a #1 pick, when nowadays a 4-year college prospect is looked down upon due to age... Or Manu coming into the league at 25.... And people call these 20yo kids busts. Smh.

[AusSpur]

I thought today it appeared he had been instructed to make quick decisions when he got the ball, which is a baby step forward (in the preseason he completely lost). The execution was not so great most of the time, he went up soft to the rim.

He has all the skill and athleticism, but just has no idea what he is doing on the court.

[R. DeMurre]

I think the rights to Milutinov still have value. He just turned 26 last week, is generally considered the best center in Europe, and he'll be 28 when his contract with CSKA is up, which would be a prime time to make the jump to the NBA.

[daslicer]

Outside of a 3 pointer made, Luka looks nothing like an NBA prospect. He can't finish and has stone feet.

I don't get why time and time again we roll the dice on an international project when we could just take a high floor type athlete in college. It's just a waste of a first round pick.

Ironically enough, the gems (Scola and Dragic), we did happen to hit on, we gave away.

Splitter was one that I have felt they nailed. He turned out to be a legit starting center.

[venitian navigator]

I think the rights to Milutinov still have value. He just turned 26 last week, is generally considered the best center in Europe, and he'll be 28 when his contract with CSKA is up, which would be a prime time to make the jump to the NBA.

does he have an nba escape clause on his contract? because considering the extreme lack of big men in our team he could probably become easily the best big man option for next season...

[rankingtear]

Splitter was a first rounder.

Livio is a wasted pick but so is any other player picked after him.

Milutinov is a good player, problem is he is not worth what he wants to get paid.

Luka may be a bust, but picking another player can have a butterfly effect resulting in Keldon not being a spur.

[daslicer]

Splitter was a first rounder.

Livio is a wasted pick but so is any other player picked after him.

Milutinov is a good player, problem is he is not worth what he wants to get paid.

Luka may be a bust, but picking another player can have a butterfly effect resulting in Keldon not being a spur.

That's what I was thinking.

[phxspurfan]

Splitter was a first rounder.

Livio is a wasted pick but so is any other player picked after him.

Milutinov is a good player, problem is he is not worth what he wants to get paid.

Luka may be a bust, but picking another player can have a butterfly effect resulting in Keldon not being a spur.

Not really. You pick Keldon at Luka's spot and Nassir Little, or Bazley. Or Bol Bol, Admiral Schofield, THT, Paschall, Kyle Guy, Kevin Porter... anybody but Luka. Wasn't Dort even undrafted in this class?

https://www.nbadraft.net/actual-draft/?year-mock=2019

[phxspurfan]

Splitter was one that I have felt they nailed. He turned out to be a legit starting center.

Which is why he isnt on the list. He was also heavily scouted being on Brazil's national team and Scola's running mate at a championship level in Europe. He also took forever to come over. Luka is just named Luka, in a year after a guy named Luka was basically league MVP as a rookie. It's unfortunate the front office had to make a mistake like thinking another similar looking Luka was going to be a great pick with our first pick of that relatively loaded draft.

[daslicer]

Which is why he isnt on the list. He was also heavily scouted being on Brazil's national team and Scola's running mate at a championship level in Europe. He also took forever to come over. Luka is just named Luka, in a year after a guy named Luka was basically league MVP as a rookie. It's unfortunate the front office had to make a mistake like thinking another similar looking Luka was going to be a great pick with our first pick of that relatively loaded draft.

It wasn't really loaded. I looked at the draft and picks after the Luka pick. They are only 2 guys I felt the Spurs passed up that could have helped which is Clark and Bazley. Both are power forwards who seem solid to decent players for their positions. Luka looks like he's going to be a bust but it's still too early to say. Even if he is a bust I understand why the Spurs were willing to take the risk. You have to gamble in the draft to find potential superstars and not always go for the safe pick. I'm not going to lose sleep over missing out on Clark and Bazley. Those type of players the Spurs can have in any draft. I just hope they start drafting bigs now and if not a big draft a big wing player.

[rankingtear]

Not really. You pick Keldon at Luka's spot and Nassir Little, or Bazley. Or Bol Bol, Admiral Schofield, THT, Paschall, Kyle Guy, Kevin Porter... anybody but Luka. Wasn't Dort even undrafted in this class?

https://www.nbadraft.net/actual-draft/?year-mock=2019

Bazley and Little never made it to pick 29. Bol Bol and Kyle Guy is in the same boat as Luka, Schofield was just waived. THT and Kevin Porter have maturity issues you don't want these guys when you have a young roster. Paschall can't shot 3's and is more likely an undersized center. You take a chance on a 6-10 prospect who can shoot in a position of need over players you can acquire anytime.

[r0drig0lac]

By God’s grace we still hit gold with Keldon 10 picks later. But jeez what a waste of a 19th pick.

Imagine if we had Thybulle, Williams, Clark, or Bazley. I mean they could at least contribute SOMETHING.

the two guys I wanted, it seemed stupid not to draft Bazley at that time, and it seems even more so now, the worst part is that I don't believe that anything that Luka does, will make him better than Bazley as a basketball player.

what Luka seems to lack is unfortunately not talent.


at this point his ceiling looks like dario saric

if he could reach that level it would be fantastic imo

[John B]

I can see that Luka will be the new Brynn this year :lol:lol:lol

[timvp]

And btw here is a list of international absolute shit shows of picks Spurs have made after they hit their TP/Manu home runs (not counting Scola, who was actually good but Spurs mis-managed bringing him over, and not counting players drafted for other teams via draft day trade):

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/draft.html

Robertas Javtokas (Lithuania)
Ian Mahinmi (France)
Nando De Cola (France)*
Ryan Richards (UK)
Adam Hanga (Hungary)
Livio Jean-Charles (France)
Nikola Milutinov (Serbia)
Luka Samanic (Croatia)


*after this abomination of a pick and the resulting experience / bouncing this shithead back to Euroleagues, Spurs FO had been burnt and started drafting more American players

What's funny is even this cherry-picked list that inexplicably left out Splitter and Bertans is pretty impressive considering where these guys were picked.

-Javtokas was probably going to be damn good but then his body got destroyed in a motorcycle accident. Somehow, even though he almost died, he was so athletic to begin with that he still almost made the NBA after the accident. If he never rode a motorcycle, he would have gone down as a great pick. Even with the motorcycle accident, his overseas accomplishments proved he was a good pick.

-Mahinmi was a great pick. He was the 28th pick and will make something like $100 million in his career.

-De Colo was another really damn good pick. Picked in the 50s, had an actual NBA career and is currently one of the best players in Europe. If he wanted to return to the NBA, he'd get a contract above the minimum.

-Hanga was picked 59th and just about landed a multi-year NBA contract. Another really good pick, considering the position.

-Milutinov is considered by many to be the best center in Europe. The biggest issue with him is that the value of centers collapsed in the NBA since he was drafted but has remained steady in Europe. Talent-wise, he was a good pick.

-Richards was a home run swing in the second round. Given his size and athleticism, it was a worthwhile gamble. The guy moves like David Robinson ... it's too bad he never developed any skill.

-Jean-Charles was a player whose game relied 100% on athleticism and his knee exploded a couple weeks after the draft. Not much anyone could do about that, tbh.

Add in the great pick that was Splitter and the even better pick that was Bertans and the comedic value of this list is pretty high, tbh. :lol

[MannyIsGod]

The spurs have done better in late first round picks than some teams have done in the lottery.

[CGD]

Stealth Scola thread?

[daslicer]

What's funny is even this cherry-picked list that inexplicably left out Splitter and Bertans is pretty impressive considering where these guys were picked.

-Javtokas was probably going to be damn good but then his body got destroyed in a motorcycle accident. Somehow, even though he almost died, he was so athletic to begin with that he still almost made the NBA after the accident. If he never rode a motorcycle, he would have gone down as a great pick. Even with the motorcycle accident, his overseas accomplishments proved he was a good pick.

-Mahinmi was a great pick. He was the 28th pick and will make something like $100 million in his career.

-De Colo was another really damn good pick. Picked in the 50s, had an actual NBA career and is currently one of the best players in Europe. If he wanted to return to the NBA, he'd get a contract above the minimum.

-Hanga was picked 59th and just about landed a multi-year NBA contract. Another really good pick, considering the position.

-Milutinov is considered by many to be the best center in Europe. The biggest issue with him is that the value of centers collapsed in the NBA since he was drafted but has remained steady in Europe. Talent-wise, he was a good pick.

-Richards was a home run swing in the second round. Given his size and athleticism, it was a worthwhile gamble. The guy moves like David Robinson ... it's too bad he never developed any skill.

-Jean-Charles was a player whose game relied 100% on athleticism and his knee exploded a couple weeks after the draft. Not much anyone could do about that, tbh.

Add in the great pick that was Splitter and the even better pick that was Bertans and the comedic value of this list is pretty high, tbh. :lol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Antonio_Spurs_draft_history

If you look at the Spurs draft history after '97 and look at all of their late first rounders and you will see they were able to draft solid players the majority of times. The only guys who didn't pan out was Livio and James Anderson. Anderson looked like he was going to be a good player until he got injured. Livio like you mentioned was a bust due to injury. If you can get a solid player late in the first round then you have done a good job drafting since most guys don't last long in the league who are picked late.

[JuneJive]

The jury is still out on Luka.

The premature calling him a bust is what is silly.

He looks two seasons away as his deficiencies are more of a matter of his maturity, not his skill set.

The question there is you can't really tell how a person will grow in that regard.

He remains a mystery, but a promising one.

[John B]

The league have caught up with scouting international players. That's all it is. And our FO will continue to find other ways to get ahead. A lot of people here forget, the Spurs don't have billionaire owners, yet despite that we only missed the playoffs 5 times ever?? Geez, there's no satisfying some people

[Sugus]

Which is why he isnt on the list. He was also heavily scouted being on Brazil's national team and Scola's running mate at a championship level in Europe. He also took forever to come over. Luka is just named Luka, in a year after a guy named Luka was basically league MVP as a rookie. It's unfortunate the front office had to make a mistake like thinking another similar looking Luka was going to be a great pick with our first pick of that relatively loaded draft.

This has got to be trolling, right? Am I taking the bait here? There's no way you can seriously think that the Spurs selected Samanic just because he shared his name with Doncic. It's such a stupid idea, low even for a trolling attempt, tbh - you can do better.

[Dejounte]

Phxspurfan reminding people how fucking stupid he is.

[Russ]

Splitter was a first rounder.



Splitter, Ginobili and Scola were all legitimate stars in Europe at the time the Spurs drafted them. They were all well worth the pick.

The projects not soo much.

[timvp]

Splitter, Ginobili and Scola were all legitimate stars in Europe at the time the Spurs drafted them.

Ginobili wasn't a star, tbh. He was on a second division team in Italy. Gordan Giricek was considered by far the better prospect for at least a year after the draft.

[Russ]

Ginobili wasn't a star, tbh. He was on a second division team in Italy. Gordan Giricek was considered by far the better prospect for at least a year after the draft.

Ginobili was an Italian League all star in '99, the year the Spurs drafted him (if it was second division, he was on the way up).

At any rate, there's no denying he was the best player in Europe by the time he came to the Spurs in '02 -- EuroLeague Finals MVP (2001), FIBA AmeriCup MVP (2001).

Most of the other international guys the Spurs drafted that didn't pan out were drafted more on upside potential, i.e., projects.

[phxspurfan]

What's funny is even this cherry-picked list that inexplicably left out Splitter and Bertans is pretty impressive considering where these guys were picked.

-Javtokas was probably going to be damn good but then his body got destroyed in a motorcycle accident. Somehow, even though he almost died, he was so athletic to begin with that he still almost made the NBA after the accident. If he never rode a motorcycle, he would have gone down as a great pick. Even with the motorcycle accident, his overseas accomplishments proved he was a good pick.

-Mahinmi was a great pick. He was the 28th pick and will make something like $100 million in his career.

-De Colo was another really damn good pick. Picked in the 50s, had an actual NBA career and is currently one of the best players in Europe. If he wanted to return to the NBA, he'd get a contract above the minimum.

-Hanga was picked 59th and just about landed a multi-year NBA contract. Another really good pick, considering the position.

-Milutinov is considered by many to be the best center in Europe. The biggest issue with him is that the value of centers collapsed in the NBA since he was drafted but has remained steady in Europe. Talent-wise, he was a good pick.

-Richards was a home run swing in the second round. Given his size and athleticism, it was a worthwhile gamble. The guy moves like David Robinson ... it's too bad he never developed any skill.

-Jean-Charles was a player whose game relied 100% on athleticism and his knee exploded a couple weeks after the draft. Not much anyone could do about that, tbh.

Add in the great pick that was Splitter and the even better pick that was Bertans and the comedic value of this list is pretty high, tbh. :lol

Our boi Bert was picked in 2011 by the Pacers and came to us via the Kawhi trade, did he not? Plus he was a shining Riga star, nowhere near bust. And Splitter was good. I also didn't include Scola since he ended up being good. Only included guys who were bad. And yes ofc I included some second rounders. Otherwise there's not a lot since we have been drafting mostly high 1st round / 2nd round during the dynasty.

[phxspurfan]

What's funny is even this cherry-picked list that inexplicably left out Splitter and Bertans is pretty impressive considering where these guys were picked.

-Javtokas was probably going to be damn good but then his body got destroyed in a motorcycle accident. Somehow, even though he almost died, he was so athletic to begin with that he still almost made the NBA after the accident. If he never rode a motorcycle, he would have gone down as a great pick. Even with the motorcycle accident, his overseas accomplishments proved he was a good pick.

-Mahinmi was a great pick. He was the 28th pick and will make something like $100 million in his career.

-De Colo was another really damn good pick. Picked in the 50s, had an actual NBA career and is currently one of the best players in Europe. If he wanted to return to the NBA, he'd get a contract above the minimum.

-Hanga was picked 59th and just about landed a multi-year NBA contract. Another really good pick, considering the position.

-Milutinov is considered by many to be the best center in Europe. The biggest issue with him is that the value of centers collapsed in the NBA since he was drafted but has remained steady in Europe. Talent-wise, he was a good pick.

-Richards was a home run swing in the second round. Given his size and athleticism, it was a worthwhile gamble. The guy moves like David Robinson ... it's too bad he never developed any skill.

-Jean-Charles was a player whose game relied 100% on athleticism and his knee exploded a couple weeks after the draft. Not much anyone could do about that, tbh.

Add in the great pick that was Splitter and the even better pick that was Bertans and the comedic value of this list is pretty high, tbh. :lol

- Wasn't Javtokas in lowlights on youtube getting dunked on by team USA? Pretty sure he seemed to me like another classic stiff, nothing special. Plus, guys seem way more athletic over in Europe, then come here and for some reason (better competition?) look like crap. Guys who have succeeded here from Europe have largely been very heady, skilled players (Divac, Sabonis, Nowitzki, Luka, even Oberto had a very nice PnR / pocket pass and reverse layup game, and Splitter was a master at finishing PnRs at the rim). Give me one big Euro dude who came here and was beasting athletically on people.

- Mahinmi the Savior was supposed to be the chosen one for us for many years. He was a massive disappointment/foul machine while here and only blossomed when he left to our arch rival the Mavs. So only one argument there is we paid to develop him while other teams benefitted from the finished product. Another more fair argument is that he wasn't that motivated here, when we needed him most (to be Robin to aging TD's batman). Fuck that dude.

- DeCola was an a-hole who didn't want to play his role IIRC. Not that he wasn't talented, he was like a poor mans Ricky Rubio. But he thought he was a star, and he was far from it. His attitude sent him packing IIRC.

- I'll give you LJC had that ACL in his developmental years I think. The rest of the guys I didn't really follow that much, just dismissed outright since we never really saw them. I think there was another one, Viktor Sanikidze or whatever. Who cares, when the point is we picked guys like the aforementioned when Americans were in the draft that were heavily scouted, known commodities, that could have really helped here.

[phxspurfan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Antonio_Spurs_draft_history

If you look at the Spurs draft history after '97 and look at all of their late first rounders and you will see they were able to draft solid players the majority of times. The only guys who didn't pan out was Livio and James Anderson. Anderson looked like he was going to be a good player until he got injured. Livio like you mentioned was a bust due to injury. If you can get a solid player late in the first round then you have done a good job drafting since most guys don't last long in the league who are picked late.

James Anderson had the foot injury, that was very unfortunate. He would have probably been ok. Can't blame him or the Spurs for that, and it really sucks when injuries limit a guys potential.

[phxspurfan]

Ginobili wasn't a star, tbh. He was on a second division team in Italy. Gordan Giricek was considered by far the better prospect for at least a year after the draft.

Pretty sure Manu won an MVP or some shit in one of his Euro leagues.

[phxspurfan]

Phxspurfan reminding people how fucking stupid he is.

Posts like this. From a player fan of a player who just went 1-13.

No argument stated, no counterpoint, just random hate. Keep up the quality content.

[jjspur]

Out of the eight names above, half were 1st round picks. I can give the the 2nd rounders a pass, lots of 2nd rounders from US colleges aren't up to NBA standards either. Just because Manu and Tony did really well for the Spurs doesn't mean that other Euro's would do as well. The first round Euro disappointments should have taught the Spurs a lesson. Every point, every rebound, every assist that Keldon makes, should tell that the Spurs picked the wrong person at 19 (Saminic). Imagine having Keldon (who plays great for being drafted in the late 20's) and another player actually playing in their second year. Even Trey Jones looks more promising than Saminic. I know pretty much all rookies need some development but It would help if the Spurs drafted someone who didn't need so much development, isnt that what colleges do ?

[John B]

Out of the eight names above, half were 1st round picks. I can give the the 2nd rounders a pass, lots of 2nd rounders from US colleges aren't up to NBA standards either. Just because Manu and Tony did really well for the Spurs doesn't mean that other Euro's would do as well. The first round Euro disappointments should have taught the Spurs a lesson. Every point, every rebound, every assist that Keldon makes, should tell that the Spurs picked the wrong person at 19 (Saminic). Imagine having Keldon (who plays great for being drafted in the late 20's) and another player actually playing in their second year. Even Trey Jones looks more promising than Saminic. I know pretty much all rookies need some development but It would help if the Spurs drafted someone who didn't need so much development, isnt that what colleges do ?
Yup those are called Lottery Picks, and even they are not guaranteed NBA caliber. Most of the picks Spurs had were late 20's, no thanks to Spurs' perennial playoff appearance.

[gospursgojas]

Lol at people still calling Luka a project and will say “two years out” every 2 years. What we’ve seen out of him is what we will ever get.

[Sugus]

Out of the eight names above, half were 1st round picks. I can give the the 2nd rounders a pass, lots of 2nd rounders from US colleges aren't up to NBA standards either. Just because Manu and Tony did really well for the Spurs doesn't mean that other Euro's would do as well. The first round Euro disappointments should have taught the Spurs a lesson. Every point, every rebound, every assist that Keldon makes, should tell that the Spurs picked the wrong person at 19 (Saminic). Imagine having Keldon (who plays great for being drafted in the late 20's) and another player actually playing in their second year. Even Trey Jones looks more promising than Saminic. I know pretty much all rookies need some development but It would help if the Spurs drafted someone who didn't need so much development, isnt that what colleges do ?

Wait, what lesson should the Spurs have learned? Not to draft any Euro prospects? Not to draft project players? Both are retarded lessons to be "learning"...

Also, the same way you can say "imagine having Keldon, plus another productive player...", we could've easily not drafted Keldon, and be stuck with two projects/busts. Drafting is like shooting in the dark most of the time, many times even in the lottery - and the Spurs have some fine accuracy, all things considered. Who was saying today that people can't be satisfied? I agree with you, my man, wherever you are, tbh.

[toki9]

And yes ofc I included some second rounders. Otherwise there's not a lot since we have been drafting mostly high 1st round / 2nd round during the dynasty.

The thread is about "How many 1st round picks have [the Spurs] wasted on international stiffs." So doesn't your quote above mean that your actual answer is "not a lot"?

[baseline bum]

And btw here is a list of international absolute shit shows of picks Spurs have made after they hit their TP/Manu home runs (not counting Scola, who was actually good but Spurs mis-managed bringing him over, and not counting players drafted for other teams via draft day trade):

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/draft.html

Robertas Javtokas (Lithuania)
Ian Mahinmi (France)
Nando De Cola (France)*
Ryan Richards (UK)
Adam Hanga (Hungary)
Livio Jean-Charles (France)
Nikola Milutinov (Serbia)
Luka Samanic (Croatia)


*after this abomination of a pick and the resulting experience / bouncing this shithead back to Euroleagues, Spurs FO had been burnt and started drafting more American players

Javtokas would have been good if he didn't fuck himself in a motorcycle crash. But ugh at LJC, Milutinov, and now Samancic as complete wastes of picks. Yeah time to ditch drafting Euros late now that the rest of the NBA has caught up and started drafting the good ones at appropriate spots. Though to be fair, I don't think the Spurs will be drafting late in the first round again for a long time. :lol

[baseline bum]

Lol at people still calling Luka a project and will say “two years out” every 2 years. What we’ve seen out of him is what we will ever get.

Even the rawest prospects usually show some sign of NBA talent right away. Seems like the only player in recent memory to go from looking like a bum his first couple of years to actually ending up pretty good was Ingram.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I’m sorry — am I understanding this correctly: Luka played 6 garbage time minutes and all of Spurstalk is now convinced he’s a bust? What?

First, look back at how much playing time Lonnie had this time last year. He also looked pretty bad in his limited minutes early on. Second, the idea that Luka is not athletic or has bad feet is just really, really stupid. He’s an athletic specimen. I don’t know what happened to this forum, which used to be one of the coolest places on the internet, but the quality of posters is really bad compared to what it used to be. I feel dumber for reading threads like this one.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Even the rawest prospects usually show some sign of NBA talent right away. Seems like the only player in recent memory to go from looking like a bum his first couple of years to actually ending up pretty good was Ingram.


https://youtu.be/TMPvJva0E0c

Watch it again. Luka made some really nice plays off the dribble and just struggled finishing. He definitely has NBA talent. Horrible take.

[phxspurfan]

Even the rawest prospects usually show some sign of NBA talent right away. Seems like the only player in recent memory to go from looking like a bum his first couple of years to actually ending up pretty good was Ingram.

Sure, but Ingram looked good in D1 NCAA at Duke IIRC. Thats a big deal considering their coach coached our best Team USA basketball olympic squads in decades and Duke has to play against perennial NBA talent from other blue bloods like Coach Cal's wildcats, Carolina, Kansas, Michigan St, UConn, Virginia, UT etc. Id take a player who looks good at Duke over a player who looks equally as good but playing against unknowns in a random under 18 league in the Adriatic any day. Spurs FO could stand to make the obvious pick more often.

As has been said, Trey Jones* is looking great already. Good pedigree, good amount of tape to judge by draft night against other high level players in a pro style system, and a trusted coaching staff to call with any questions.

Now if a guy like Luka was serious enough to play against the highest level of similar age competition and come over stateside, and dunks all over dudes/ hits 3s in the face of our best colleges / defensive schemes, then hell yes we should look at him hypothetically. Because that would make him more of a known quantity. Some of the internationals have come to the US NCAA for that reason and have done well after.

[J_Paco]

Sure, but Ingram looked good in D1 NCAA at Duke IIRC. Thats a big deal considering their coach coached our best Team USA basketball olympic squads in decades and Duke has to play against perennial NBA talent from other blue bloods like Coach Cal's wildcats, Carolina, Kansas, Michigan St, UConn, Virginia, UT etc. Id take a player who looks good at Duke over a player who looks equally as good but playing against unknowns in a random under 18 league in the Adriatic any day. Spurs FO could stand to make the obvious pick more often.

As has been said, Trey Lyles is looking great already. Good pedigree, good amount of tape to judge by draft night against other high level players in a pro style system, and a trusted coaching staff to call with any questions.

Now if a guy like Luka was serious enough to play against the highest level of similar age competition and come over stateside, and dunks all over dudes/ hits 3s in the face of our best colleges / defensive schemes, then hell yes we should look at him hypothetically. Because that would make him more of a known quantity. Some of the internationals have come to the US NCAA for that reason and have done well after.

Taking a chance on a guy like Luka (low floor, high ceiling) could land you a Giannis - type (not very likely MVP - level impact) prospect that completely alters your franchise's trajectory.

Never taking huge hacks (whether hitting or missing), especially in a small, "unattractive" market like San Antonio, has you in mediocrity for a decade or worse.

Especially, in a draft where you have 2 first-round picks so you can gamble with one pick and hope he's a home run (like Poke in OKC). Unless you are Keldon's agent or family then why give a fuck where he was selected?


And unfortunately, because prospects are younger now more than ever, every team is going to whiff at a higher rate. Dragan Bender, Dario Saric & D.J. Wilson are all examples of players of similar skillset to Samanic. Two were from overseas (and drafted in the lottery) while Wilson played 3 years of college basketball (which should have made him more of a "sure thing").

Bender has washed out of the league, Saric is nothing more than a role player and Wilson has been glued to the Milwaukee bench until this season. And now he's looking like an actual "bust" since his numbers are atrocious after finally getting a chance.

So, again, it is easy to complain that they "should have chosen so and so," but the reality is they didn’t. Hope Luka pans out, if he doesn't then move on, they'll have a better chance this off-season to draft someone that can actually be impactful and help the team win.

[exstatic]

Our boi Bert was picked in 2011 by the Pacers and came to us via the Kawhi trade, did he not? Plus he was a shining Riga star, nowhere near bust. And Splitter was good. I also didn't include Scola since he ended up being good. Only included guys who were bad. And yes ofc I included some second rounders. Otherwise there's not a lot since we have been drafting mostly high 1st round / 2nd round during the dynasty.

Like most draft night trades, Bertans was picked by Indy, but at our behest. You don’t honestly think Indy picked him for themselves, and we randomly decided we wanted him, do you?

[phxspurfan]

Like most draft night trades, Bertans was picked by Indy, but at our behest. You don’t honestly think Indy picked him for themselves, and we randomly decided we wanted him, do you?

Sure, I don't really remember that the trade went down on draft night and the exact timing of the communication and the pick if it happened that way. Those were the dark days when we were busy being swept by the Suns and losing 1-8 to the Grizz or some shit.

I also wouldn't have put him on the list bc the list is about foreign draft picks who sucked as Spurs. Bert was a badass Spur and youre a piece of shit if you think otherwise. He also took his trade like a man, balled out the next year, got his kid brother a shot at the NBA, and secured the bag.

[exstatic]

Lol at people still calling Luka a project and will say “two years out” every 2 years. What we’ve seen out of him is what we will ever get.

No, I’m actually calling next year for rotation minutes, two years after his draft. I haven’t seen anyone calling for a rolling two year window. Reiterating this year that he’s a two year project doesn’t mean we don’t recognize that one of those years has already elapsed.

[DAF86]

Out of the eight names above, half were 1st round picks. I can give the the 2nd rounders a pass, lots of 2nd rounders from US colleges aren't up to NBA standards either. Just because Manu and Tony did really well for the Spurs doesn't mean that other Euro's would do as well. The first round Euro disappointments should have taught the Spurs a lesson. Every point, every rebound, every assist that Keldon makes, should tell that the Spurs picked the wrong person at 19 (Saminic). Imagine having Keldon (who plays great for being drafted in the late 20's) and another player actually playing in their second year. Even Trey Jones looks more promising than Saminic. I know pretty much all rookies need some development but It would help if the Spurs drafted someone who didn't need so much development, isnt that what colleges do ?

It's funny because the first round US college dissapointments list is much bigger, tbh. :lol

[exstatic]

Pretty sure Manu won an MVP or some shit in one of his Euro leagues.

timvp stated that AT THE TIME HE WAS DRAFTED, he was not a star. His Euroleague Final Four MVP came almost three years later, around the time of the FIBA world championship, 2002.

[exstatic]

It's funny because the first round US college dissapointments list is much bigger, tbh. :lol

Chris Carrawell, Bryan Bracey, Jack McClinton. :lol

[jjspur]

All I'm saying is that Keldon and Devin Vassell and Trey Jones dont show potential, they show real skill... today, this season, not a year or two or after 3 years of development. I'd rather have a player developed by college coaches rather than in Europe.

[DAF86]

Since 97 (Duncan era)

List of US college draftees

-Derrick Dial
-Felipe López
-Cory Hightower
-Chris Carrawell
-Bryan Bracey
-Randy Holcomb
-John Salmons
-Romain Sato
-Marcus Williams
-James Gist
-George Hill
-Jack McClinton
-DeJuan Blair
-James Anderson
-Corey Joseph
-Deshaun Thomas
-Marcus Denmon
-Jordan McRae
-Kyle Anderson
-Cady Lalanne
-Dejounte Murray
-Jaron Blossomgame
-Derrick White
-Chimizie Metu
-Lonnie Walker
-Devin Vassell
-Tre Jones
-Quinndary Weatherspoon
-Keldon Johnson

27% hit/miss ratio.

List of International draftees

-Manu Ginobili
-Robertas Javtokas
-Tony Parker
-Luis Scola
-Leandro Barbosa
-Sergei Karaulov
-Beno Udrih
-Ian Mahinmi
-Damir Marmota
-Giorgos Printezis
-Tiago Splitter
-Goran Dragic
-Nando DeColo
-Ryan Richards
-Adam Hanga
-Livio Jean-Charles
-Nikola Milutinov
-Luka Samanic

44% Hit/miss ratio. That's absurd for a team constantly picking last.

And if you think about it, it makes perfect sense. First, playing professional basketball in Europe >>> playing college in the US. Second, to hit the NBA radar as an International prospect requires double the talent and effort than being noticed as a US prospect, for obvious reasons.

And now you know why the Spurs insist so much with International prospects. If anything, numbers indicate they should select even more International players, tbh.

[DAF86]

All I'm saying is that Keldon and Devin Vassell and Trey Jones dont show potential, they show real skill... today, this season, not a year or two or after 3 years of development. I'd rather have a player developed by college coaches rather than in Europe.

Why? :lol

That's US centrism at it's finest. Player development in Europe >>>>>> player development in US colleges (and to be really honest, better than player development in the NBA too). You won't find an International developed player that isn't technically sound. No matter the position, most players can shoot, pass and think the game. What US college players have over most International prospects is inhuman raw athleticism, but that many times goes to waste because of the extremely poor level of player development in US colleges.

[DAF86]

Imagine a guy like Fabricio Oberto being developed by the US college program. He would still be working on Mcdonald's trying to make his music career work. :lol

[DAF86]

Now imagine Dejounte Murray being properly taught how to dribble a basketball, run a pick and roll, and managing a fast break. :wow

[daslicer]

Imagine a guy like Fabricio Oberto being developed by the US college program. He would still be working on Mcdonald's trying to make his music career work. :lol

Agreed. You could also say the same about Doncic if he grew up in the US instead of Europe he would have been a scrub in the AAU circuit.

[DAF86]

I mean, Manu Ginobili had to get to the NBA for US developers to realize the Eurostep was something that could actually be done. Probably the most dominant basketball move of all-time. :lol

I remember NBA refs calling travel on those plays early on. :lol

[phxspurfan]

timvp stated that AT THE TIME HE WAS DRAFTED, he was not a star. His Euroleague Final Four MVP came almost three years later, around the time of the FIBA world championship, 2002.

OK ALL CAPS MAN YOU MASSIVE FAGGOT

[buttsR4rebounding]

- Wasn't Javtokas in lowlights on youtube getting dunked on by team USA? Pretty sure he seemed to me like another classic stiff, nothing special. Plus, guys seem way more athletic over in Europe, then come here and for some reason (better competition?) look like crap. Guys who have succeeded here from Europe have largely been very heady, skilled players (Divac, Sabonis, Nowitzki, Luka, even Oberto had a very nice PnR / pocket pass and reverse layup game, and Splitter was a master at finishing PnRs at the rim). Give me one big Euro dude who came here and was beasting athletically on people.

- Mahinmi the Savior was supposed to be the chosen one for us for many years. He was a massive disappointment/foul machine while here and only blossomed when he left to our arch rival the Mavs. So only one argument there is we paid to develop him while other teams benefitted from the finished product. Another more fair argument is that he wasn't that motivated here, when we needed him most (to be Robin to aging TD's batman). Fuck that dude.

- DeCola was an a-hole who didn't want to play his role IIRC. Not that he wasn't talented, he was like a poor mans Ricky Rubio. But he thought he was a star, and he was far from it. His attitude sent him packing IIRC.

- I'll give you LJC had that ACL in his developmental years I think. The rest of the guys I didn't really follow that much, just dismissed outright since we never really saw them. I think there was another one, Viktor Sanikidze or whatever. Who cares, when the point is we picked guys like the aforementioned when Americans were in the draft that were heavily scouted, known commodities, that could have really helped here.

You have got to be one of the most ignorant posters on this board (and there is some elite ignorance here). Javtokas could dunk on a 12 foot basket before the accident. He was off-the-charts athletic. Your comment about Ian actually disproves your primary premise. Ian blossomed after the Spurs because bigs develop later. The Spurs record with international picks is likely the best in the NBA, but you see the glass 20% empty instead of 80% full.

[exstatic]

All I'm saying is that Keldon and Devin Vassell and Trey Jones dont show potential, they show real skill... today, this season, not a year or two or after 3 years of development. I'd rather have a player developed by college coaches rather than in Europe.

Most US players are one and done, and need development. Devin, in spite of the fact that he would have been 19 if the draft were held in its normal June slot, was a two year NCAA player. Tre also played two NCAA seasons.

The dilemma of a player like Śamanic is that if he didn’t need development, he’d already be good enough that he would never drop to 19. You have to project with a player like that if your pick is outside the lottery. There are no more undiscovered (nba front office), ready to play gems in Europe. Fans may not have heard of Doncic a year out, but you can bet he was on every front office’s draft radar.

[exstatic]

OK ALL CAPS MAN YOU MASSIVE FAGGOT

It was a point that obviously slipped past your keen powers of observation.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Most US players are one and done, and need development. Devin, in spite of the fact that he would have been 19 if the draft were held in its normal June slot, was a two year NCAA player. Tre also played two NCAA seasons.

The dilemma of a player like Śamanic is that if he didn’t need development, he’d already be good enough that he would never drop to 19. You have to project with a player like that if your pick is outside the lottery. There are no more undiscovered (nba front office), ready to play gems in Europe. Fans may not have heard of Doncic a year out, but you can bet he was on every front office’s draft radar.

Exactly. And to go even further, the Spurs have done a great job with Luka’s development so far. Here is a guy who was drafted as a string bean and now looks physically ready to play in the league. He also has a patented spin move, and an increasingly good feel for how the North American game is played.

He didn’t light the world on fire in his 6 minutes this week, but you see him showing the same traits he’s had all along. His growth has been steady and linear since he got here. Watch his summer league tape from when he was drafted, he made a lot of nice moves to the hoop but didn’t have the strength to finish through contact. Fast forward a few months in the G League and a much stronger Luka is making those same moves and finishing with ease at a higher level of competition (G League is harder than Summer League).

Now he’s starting to get some minutes in the NBA and he’s sort of going through a similar progression. His quickness and fluidity with his ball handling is helping him get to the rim. Now he has to learn that he needs to finish strong and be quicker against NBA athletes. This is just his development path.

[Rito3d30]

Luka always looks gassed, due to nervousness?

[jjspur]

I agree even some lottery picks turn out to be real duds. The Spurs picking in the late 20's could take a chance on a prospect because they knew with a few hall of famers and some really good reserves on the team already, the new guy was going to have to go to the back of the line maybe even for a few years. Our hall of famers are all retired and we just have to be more careful who we draft so they can make a real contribution hopefully sooner rather than later if at all. Maybe Luka will turn out Ok who knows, but so far it seems like Keldon should have been the player drafted in the 19th slot. The development he got at Kentucky plus with the spurs coaching looks really good right now for a player drafted 29th.

[Sugus]

Luka always looks gassed, due to nervousness?

He looks gassed because he's not used to playing NBA level basketball. Playing a single game's garbage time only every 4 months will do that to you. Get him on the court 10-15mpg consistently for a few months, and see how that changes.

[Sugus]

Now imagine Dejounte Murray being properly taught how to dribble a basketball, run a pick and roll, and managing a fast break. :wow

Or Lonnie being taught how to finish with both hands, intensive layup drills, and so many fundamental things that American prospects never learn through youth ball programs... :depressed

[ragas]

I wish the Spurs had drafted Brandon Clarke. Would be fun to see Spurstalk posters discuss about his numbers after 6 games into the season. -16 netrating, 17% 3p, 44% ft. Just a reminder: He's 24. I'm not saying Luka will definitely be better when he's 24, but there's a chance.

[GreekSpursfan]

I always remember a take that Sean Elliott would say when a rookie played bad for any team and there was talk about that player being a bust. He said teams that draft an 18 or 19 year old kid and expecting them to be instant NBA Stars are delusional as it takes really 3 years for these young players to develop. He basically said hey if your drafting players that need to be developed then give them time to be developed before you give up on them

This is the correct approach but the body language of a young player shouldn't be the one Luka has. If he was active and he just didn't have the development(body, skills, etc) then i 100% agree but whenever i saw this kid i dont like what i see effort wise

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I wish the Spurs had drafted Brandon Clarke. Would be fun to see Spurstalk posters discuss about his numbers after 6 games into the season. -16 netrating, 17% 3p, 44% ft. Just a reminder: He's 24. I'm not saying Luka will definitely be better when he's 24, but there's a chance.

I’m willing to go out on a limb and say that not only will Luka not bust, but I guarantee he’s a full time rotation level player in the league by age 23 and will definitely be better and more valuable than Clarke is right now. I am 100% certain that this true based on his traits and current development trajectory.

[R. DeMurre]

Sure, but Ingram looked good in D1 NCAA at Duke IIRC. Thats a big deal considering their coach coached our best Team USA basketball olympic squads in decades and Duke has to play against perennial NBA talent from other blue bloods like Coach Cal's wildcats, Carolina, Kansas, Michigan St, UConn, Virginia, UT etc. Id take a player who looks good at Duke over a player who looks equally as good but playing against unknowns in a random under 18 league in the Adriatic any day. Spurs FO could stand to make the obvious pick more often.

As has been said, Trey Jones* is looking great already. Good pedigree, good amount of tape to judge by draft night against other high level players in a pro style system, and a trusted coaching staff to call with any questions.

Now if a guy like Luka was serious enough to play against the highest level of similar age competition and come over stateside, and dunks all over dudes/ hits 3s in the face of our best colleges / defensive schemes, then hell yes we should look at him hypothetically. Because that would make him more of a known quantity. Some of the internationals have come to the US NCAA for that reason and have done well after.

Jahlil Okafor was the first player to ever win ACC Player of the year as a freshman, Nolan Smith was an All American and ACC Player of the year, Chris Carrawell was ACC player of the year... the list goes on & on. This litmus test doesn't work.

[Dejounte]

I’m willing to go out on a limb and say that not only will Luka not bust, but I guarantee he’s a full time rotation level player in the league by age 23 and will definitely be better and more valuable than Clarke is right now. I am 100% certain that this true based on his traits and current development trajectory.

ST has a habit of becoming obsessed with the new shiny item. Human nature, I guess.

[rjv]

i don't know; how many have we wasted on domestic stiffs?

[John B]

I’m willing to go out on a limb and say that not only will Luka not bust, but I guarantee he’s a full time rotation level player in the league by age 23 and will definitely be better and more valuable than Clarke is right now. I am 100% certain that this true based on his traits and current development trajectory.
I can only hope he will... Luka is a good gamble with very minimal risk. If he pans out, we have an athletic big with touch and ball handling.
The kid obviously has skills. He was able to get away from his defender with a spin and neat ballhandling, just to get swatted away.
He needs to get stronger to build confidence to finish strong.

Agree. Luka has more upsides than any of young core, except Keldon, because of his length. He can realistically be 16/8 by next year if he can get stronger, and double-double machine in 3-5 years imo.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

ST has a habit of becoming obsessed with the new shiny item. Human nature, I guess.

I actually think that ST has a lot of hot take artists who just like to make inflammatory statements and either borderline or explicitly racist comments (there are certainly more than a few in this thread). That didn’t used to be the case. Kori and Timvp never moderated this place, but there were strong cultural norms in place in Spurstalk’s hay days that stopped that kind of thing, and they were a big part of it.

The other issue, I think, is that the Spurs fans on this board don’t seem to have a lot of experience following sports where athletes develop more slowly that basketball. Back in 2007 when the Spurs were setting up the then Toros they spent a lot of time talking to and learning from MLB teams about prospect development. That’s a sport where kids can go pro as early as 16 or 18 and start right away in the minors. A whole lot of those kids never make the majors until their mid 20s. That means it can take years and years to develop an all star level player and you have to learn how to help players continue on a slow and steady trajectory. The Spurs also used to have a minor league hockey team. Hockey is a sport similar to baseball in that hockey prospects are drafted at 17, and a majority of NHL players don’t really break through until their age 22 or 23 season, and a player doesn’t really hit his prime years until around 25. There are exceptions, obviously, but that’s the normal player development trajectory.

For whatever reason, NBA teams have not historically set themselves up that way. It’s frankly a little mind boggling. The truth is, if you have plus NBA athleticism, work ethic and are good enough to be drafted in the first round, you should be able to turn into a pretty damn good player. Skills like shooting, defense, ball handling, etc. can all be taught and perfected well into a player’s age 26 or 27 season in the NBA. Look at Kawhi for proof of this. Also think about the trajectory of guys like Parker and even Manu, who didn’t really break out into a truly all star level player until his age 27 season. This stuff happens all the time.

What’s different about the Spurs approach to drafting and developing lately is that they have been focusing more on guys with high ceiling and specific athletic traits above high character guys with higher floors but lower ceilings and more well rounded games. That had been their approach for many years when they had a championship core because that’s the kind of player they needed back then. Now they need to develop a new generation of stars so they’re clearly looking for guys with a bit higher of a ceiling that will take longer to develop. In guys like Luka and Lonnie Walker, the Spurs were basically looking for the basketball version of Josh Allen — guys that can and will develop more slowly, but can really boom if all goes right.

I’m here to tell you that everything is going really, really well with Luka right now based on what I’ve seen of his progression. It has been linear and it has been upward. The people that say otherwise just haven’t been watching him at lower levels to see his play progress so far. They also make lazy statements like Luka has motor issues because they don’t understand the really wide divergence between the international and NBA game right now. Luka doesn’t have motor issues, he has typical confidence issues and is having to learn to play help defense in North America. There are some guys like Luka D. that have made that translation faster due to their super elite BB IQ, but that’s really rare for a 20 year old.

[XDT76]

Some time I just wonder how many posters here are really Spurs fan, if Spurs took a safe pick it will be a squad of middling players with no further, if the Spurs took a gamble on high ceiling prospect it will be a shit FO who skip players with high floor. These guys might even piss on DRob when he was drafted, maybe if we had drafted Dallas' Luka he will be an empty calorie player that play no defense.

[TheGreatYacht]

No doubt in my mind RC would’ve picked that walking oak tree, Poeltl, with #6 if he had the chance :lol

I can’t stand watching his soft ass waddle around the court and get get blocked at the rim by guards. He’s so awful and overrated by “advanced” stat virgins that it’s disgusting. A 7 foot Danny Green. I told folks Danny was a dumpster watching him with my eyes and ignoring useless shit like DRAYMOND stats :lmao now the rest of the fans have caught up after watching him on Bron’s team.