Solution to fix NBA 3PT chucking

[ismael-robert]

Make dunks worth 3pts or possibly even 4pts. Teams will go back to designing plays to go inside and get us some exciting dunks instead of all this outside shooting that has lost its luster. Dunks are probably the most difficult shot to come by and should be worth the most. Three's are becoming like layups for these guys.

[cd021]

Nah, just eliminate corner threes by not having the three point line arc. Push it back to 25 feet and have it trail off towards the sidelines.

Players who can't really shoot won't be able to just launch 3's like crazy while player who can get to the rim or work in the midrange will see their value improve.

[exstatic]

The NBA doesn’t see this as a problem, so they won’t do anything. Casuals apparently think the 3 pointer is exciting, even at like 80 attempts per contest.

[r0drig0lac]

1- allow physicality in the perimeter or prohibits physicality in the internal game, creating a real balance to the game
2- prevent any movement of screens (and they happen on 9 out of 10 screens) >> decreases the ease of creating incompatibilities or offensive advantage situations >> decreases open shots >> decreases the efficiency of external shots >> makes the new "right way" to play really necessitate the creation of intelligent and varied situations, instead of the current pick and roll / illegal screen / drive and kick, rinse and repeat...


that is, they just need to officiate the game in the right way and it will normalize on its own.

[John B]

Pop doesn’t like fancy dunks :lol

I’m also not a big fan of teams chucking 3’s. But in their defense, they have to be really good to make it work, and still play great defense on the other side of the floor. Dubs had one of the best defense and that won them the chapionships and not just 3’s. The Lakers are not just chucking 3’s. They attack you in and out. Granted they have Davis who can knock them from the outside, but who can punish his defender down low. I myself wouldn’t like a fancy dunk just to score 3 or 4 points, and risk catapulting in the grandstand. Imo the best way is to defend 3’s with effective closeouts, big men who can switch adequately and use their length to defend the 3’s, and also knock them when available. Last night Jazz were 21 of 41 attempts. That’s 51%. Bognadovich had 28pts. And a lot of them were open shots, likewise with Wes Matthews the other night. Spurs simply need to play better defense closing out. Granted we didn’t have better interior defense to contain Gorbert that forced the help. Poeltl needs to wake up and do a better job, to minimize help defense leaving their guys. Again it boils down to defense imo.

[cd021]

I've actually seen the idea of getting rid of the charge, as means to encourage more driving, as fix. I don't know if I buy it but having players look to undercut other players by trying to take charges near the basket might be an unintended consequence to the rule if players are more weary of attacking.

Personally, I think that its starting younger with players emulate the best players in the NBA. Kids are in middle and high school trying to shoot it like Steph and Dame. It's probably going to get worse before it gets better.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

1- allow physicality in the perimeter or prohibits physicality in the internal game, creating a real balance to the game


This is a big problem imo. Right now defense isn't allowed to be played on the perimeter at all. Switch everything and raise your hands up hoping for a miss is all that's allowed. At the same time in the low post defenders can push, shove, hit and do just about anything without a foul being called. It's incredibly unbalanced.

[lefty]

Just get rid of the 3 pt line :lol

[John B]

This is a big problem imo. Right now defense isn't allowed to be played on the perimeter at all. Switch everything and raise your hands up hoping for a miss is all that's allowed. At the same time in the low post defenders can push, shove, hit and do just about anything without a foul being called. It's incredibly unbalanced.
I wish Poeltl will push, shove, hit, scratch, bite, I don’t care, just man low so we can have our long guards stay with their man.

[KobesAchilles]

Just bring back hand checking. Simple solution. Also get rid of that stupid pick n roll foul move that all the stars seem to get away with now. They are trapping the defenders arm between two people, not being fouled. If anything, it's an offensive foul

[The Truth #6]

There are lots of options out there to improve spacing. A different idea is to reduce the size of the paint to possibly reinvigorate the post game.

[exstatic]

I've actually seen the idea of getting rid of the charge, as means to encourage more driving, as fix. I don't know if I buy it but having players look to undercut other players by trying to take charges near the basket might be an unintended consequence to the rule if players are more weary of attacking.

Personally, I think that its starting younger with players emulate the best players in the NBA. Kids are in middle and high school trying to shoot it like Steph and Dame. It's probably going to get worse before it gets better.

The charge is literally the last way that the NBA still allows players to D up. I think it’s abolishment would make the nba completely and utterly unwatchable.

[exstatic]

Just bring back hand checking. Simple solution. Also get rid of that stupid pick n roll foul move that all the stars seem to get away with now. They are trapping the defenders arm between two people, not being fouled. If anything, it's an offensive foul

It’s been the rule for a couple of years that as a defender, you cannot fight through a pick. You must go under or over.

[R. DeMurre]

I think the easiest solution is changing the reward to 2.5 points rather than 3. Then a 40% shooter from 3 would net his team 100 pts per 100 shots, just as a 50% shooter on twos also nets his team 100 pts per 100 shots. But a guy who shoots 35% from three would only net 87.5 pts per 100, which would be the same as a guy shooting a mediocre 43.5% from two. The elite shooters would continue to be rewarded for being elite, but for mediocre shooters, the reward for shooting 33-35% from three would be at least partially removed.

[Dex]

I wish Poeltl will push, shove, hit, scratch, bite, I don’t care, just man low so we can have our long guards stay with their man.

Poeltl already has trouble staying on the floor as it is. Until he starts getting more respect from the refs, he would be fouled out in 5 minutes if he played that aggressive.

[Seventyniner]

I think the easiest solution is changing the reward to 2.5 points rather than 3. Then a 40% shooter from 3 would net his team 100 pts per 100 shots, just as a 50% shooter on twos also nets his team 100 pts per 100 shots. But a guy who shoots 35% from three would only net 87.5 pts per 100, which would be the same as a guy shooting a mediocre 43.5% from two. The elite shooters would continue to be rewarded for being elite, but for mediocre shooters, the reward for shooting 33-35% from three would be at least partially removed.

I like this, though half-points are never going to catch on. A way to do something similar with only whole numbers is to have shots behind the arc alternate being worth 2 and 3, and it only switches when you make one. Put some sort of green light on the shot clock to signify that the three-point line is "on", and making shots behind the arc toggles it on and off.

Perhaps turn it on permanently for the last two minutes of the game so comebacks are easier; the three-point line does make for exciting end-of-game situations.

A simpler "solution", though admittedly one that doesn't exactly accomplish the same goal, is to just turn the three-point line off in the first and third quarters.

[widowmaker]

Make dunks worth 3pts or possibly even 4pts. Teams will go back to designing plays to go inside and get us some exciting dunks instead of all this outside shooting that has lost its luster. Dunks are probably the most difficult shot to come by and should be worth the most. Three's are becoming like layups for these guys.


How bout the spurs just get better at shooting 3s and catch up to the rest of the league.

[Joseph Kony]

league just needs to get rid of the corner 3 and get rid of all the bullshit offensive-geared rule changes.

no corner 3
no "freedom of movement" rules
abolish defensive 3 seconds
allow hand checking

bam, game because much more watchable

[widowmaker]

How bout they add a baseball and call the game baseket ball?

[Joseph Kony]

How bout the spurs just get better at shooting 3s and catch up to the rest of the league.

it's not even about getting "Better" it's about actually trying to make it a big part of their game. at one point in the game yesterday the Jazz had more makes from deep than the Spurs even attempted. taking 15 three pointers a game when your opponent is taking 40+ is not going to win. Pop is too concerned with constantly trying to run half court play when the other team just throws it downcourt and the first open guy takes the 3. sadly that is what the league is and the Spurs need to follow suit

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Let guys play defense again. That would be cool.

[widowmaker]

it's not even about getting "Better" it's about actually trying to make it a big part of their game. at one point in the game yesterday the Jazz had more makes from deep than the Spurs even attempted. taking 15 three pointers a game when your opponent is taking 40+ is not going to win. Pop is too concerned with constantly trying to run half court play when the other team just throws it downcourt and the first open guy takes the 3. sadly that is what the league is and the Spurs need to follow suit

what ive noticed is that keldon is the only one that looks comfortable shooting 3s out there.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

league just needs to get rid of the corner 3 and get rid of all the bullshit offensive-geared rule changes.

no corner 3
no "freedom of movement" rules
abolish defensive 3 seconds
allow hand checking

bam, game because much more watchable

I like these, except for abolishing the corner 3, but it'd result in a bunch of 77-73 type of games and the league just won't have that. Not marketable.


it's not even about getting "Better" it's about actually trying to make it a big part of their game. at one point in the game yesterday the Jazz had more makes from deep than the Spurs even attempted. taking 15 three pointers a game when your opponent is taking 40+ is not going to win. Pop is too concerned with constantly trying to run half court play when the other team just throws it downcourt and the first open guy takes the 3. sadly that is what the league is and the Spurs need to follow suit

From what I've seen this season Pop isn't even trying to have them run halfcourt sets, Spurs offense consists of one or two passes and then players taking turns attacking the rim relentlessly. Rarely even kicking out to shooters. They'll either have to start getting calls and going to the line more often, or change the offense completely. Defense is a total mess and it's probably not fixable this season.

[timvp]

The NBA doesn’t see this as a problem, so they won’t do anything. Casuals apparently think the 3 pointer is exciting, even at like 80 attempts per contest.

Bingo.

Casuals complained about low scoring games and the NBA worked for decades to increase scoring. They've achieved that goal.

Personally, I miss the NBA where teams could win with defense ... but I can see why a casual fan would prefer today's NBA compared to the mid-90s slugfests :lol

[lebomb]

I think that after someone dunks, its kinda like a dunk contest. Depending on the difficulty the amount of points you get is up to a panel of judges on the front row. Once a dunk is performed during a game, the 5 judges stand and flash the points they would like to give 1 thru 5. An average tally is then assessed and that amount of points is added to said teams score.

:huh

[LurkingSpursFan]

3 pointer is just a skill like FT shooting. Either improve on this skill or defend it better. You guys are forgetting Spurs defense during D'Antoni Suns days. Also see how the Lakers defended the 3 in the playoffs.

[Blackhaus]

I think that after someone dunks, its kinda like a dunk contest. Depending on the difficulty the amount of points you get is up to a panel of judges on the front row. Once a dunk is performed during a game, the 5 judges stand and flash the points they would like to give 1 thru 5. An average tally is then assessed and that amount of points is added to said teams score.

:huh

so a standard one handed Lebron dunk gets a 5, while any spur player reverse posterized dunk get a .5? Yeah no lol.

[R. DeMurre]

Bingo.

Casuals complained about low scoring games and the NBA worked for decades to increase scoring. They've achieved that goal.

Personally, I miss the NBA where teams could win with defense ... but I can see why a casual fan would prefer today's NBA compared to the mid-90s slugfests :lol

I've never understood this complaint from people... the most common score in baseball is typically about 5-3, with soccer more like 1-0, hockey at 3-2, and football around 24-21, so it always mystified me why a 95-90 final tally in the NBA would be considered boring & devoid of offense.

[paperboy77]

Pop doesn’t like fancy dunks :lol

I’m also not a big fan of teams chucking 3’s. But in their defense, they have to be really good to make it work, and still play great defense on the other side of the floor. Dubs had one of the best defense and that won them the chapionships and not just 3’s. The Lakers are not just chucking 3’s. They attack you in and out. Granted they have Davis who can knock them from the outside, but who can punish his defender down low. I myself wouldn’t like a fancy dunk just to score 3 or 4 points, and risk catapulting in the grandstand. Imo the best way is to defend 3’s with effective closeouts, big men who can switch adequately and use their length to defend the 3’s, and also knock them when available. Last night Jazz were 21 of 41 attempts. That’s 51%. Bognadovich had 28pts. And a lot of them were open shots, likewise with Wes Matthews the other night. Spurs simply need to play better defense closing out. Granted we didn’t have better interior defense to contain Gorbert that forced the help. Poeltl needs to wake up and do a better job, to minimize help defense leaving their guys. Again it boils down to defense imo.


For me it's not a matter of "can a team win a title that way?". It's more about how redundant everything is now days. Chuck threes while a defender will likely get called for a foul IF they even try to defend. The NBA went way over to the opposite extreme from the post up game. Need to be somewhere in between. Or maybe just ALWAYS officiate games like they do in the playoffs. Everybody loves playoff basketball.

[paperboy77]

Just bring back hand checking. Simple solution. Also get rid of that stupid pick n roll foul move that all the stars seem to get away with now. They are trapping the defenders arm between two people, not being fouled. If anything, it's an offensive foul

That would do it.

[paperboy77]

3 pointer is just a skill like FT shooting. Either improve on this skill or defend it better. You guys are forgetting Spurs defense during D'Antoni Suns days. Also see how the Lakers defended the 3 in the playoffs.

Back when we were dominating Phx they would allow a player to actually be physical. The Lakers last year were allowed to play defense just like everyone else is allowed during the playoffs.

[JuneJive]

Why would they change it?

Shooters gonna shoot.

Game has evolved. Everyone needs to be able to shoot.

[Bojo]

what ive noticed is that keldon is the only one that looks comfortable shooting 3s out there.

Very good observation, this is a big problem for the Spurs imho. Walker has nights where he's letting it fly with visible confidence, and those nights he fills up the statsheet. The rest looks like they're afraid of shooting threes.
Might be a prisoner of the moment, but they need to get more comfortable firing long balls real quick (next 10 games).

[NASpurs]

Fuck that, we need a 4 pt line further out and a trampoline on top of the key thats worth 3 points. Then various holographic hotspots randomly show up on the court that’s worth 4, 5 and 6 points. What’s the question again?

[widowmaker]

Very good observation, this is a big problem for the Spurs imho. Walker has nights where he's letting it fly with visible confidence, and those nights he fills up the statsheet. The rest looks like they're afraid of shooting threes.
Might be a prisoner of the moment, but they need to get more comfortable firing long balls real quick (next 10 games).


Ive said it before there is no one on this team that brings their game with them every game (with the exception of keldon for now). Granted it must be tough to do there is a lot of competition out there but worst case for a guy if you’re shot is not dropping how about you get stingy on defense at least?

[Sugus]

Very good observation, this is a big problem for the Spurs imho. Walker has nights where he's letting it fly with visible confidence, and those nights he fills up the statsheet. The rest looks like they're afraid of shooting threes.
Might be a prisoner of the moment, but they need to get more comfortable firing long balls real quick (next 10 games).

They're not gonna "get more comfortable" at it because Pop won't allow it. You think he wouldn't pull the young players if they started firing pull-up 3's in transition like most modern NBA teams do nowadays? Nah. The fact that the Spurs are hell-bent on archaic offensive sets, even when running a "more free" offense than last year or the other one, is all the evidence you need. Or did you catch Pop making an emphasis that the Spurs gotta shoot more 3's after that embarrassing Jazz loss? No you didn't - even though it was, by far, the main reason we lost.

Having said that, the Spurs catching up with the league's playstyle might make them more unwatchable in my eyes. Modern games are just so boring as a neutral fan, I've been having trouble checking into other teams because it's just 3pt shot after 3pt shot, non stop. You start to not care after a while.

[lebomb]

Why would they change it?

Shooters gonna shoot.

Game has evolved. Everyone needs to be able to shoot.


Except midrange shots have gone to shit, noone can hit a mid range anymore. With everyone only shooting and practicing 3's in practice this was bound to happen.

[cd021]

The charge is literally the last way that the NBA still allows players to D up. I think it’s abolishment would make the nba completely and utterly unwatchable.

The argument is that it stopped the challenging shots at the rim that was more prevalent in the 90s and 2000s. Also, there's a bit of an injury risk with guards sliding under bigger players as they jump. It's also lead to an increase in flops.

It's an interesting thought though I don't know if it would have a desired affect of promoting less 3pt chucking.

[cd021]

If they make hand checking great again, wouldn't they take away zone?

Players would literally be left open again when doubles are sent. I don't know if that makes a lot of sense.

Better to just push the line back by at least a foot and have it trail off, toward out of bounds, before it reaches the corners.

No more corner 3s, and there would only probably be enough spacing for three shooters to space behind the line.

it would make it harder to chuck while players with mid range and post games would become more valuable.

[John B]

Fuck that, we need a 4 pt line further out and a trampoline on top of the key thats worth 3 points. Then various holographic hotspots randomly show up on the court that’s worth 4, 5 and 6 points. What’s the question again?
That and collect coins hitting the backboard

[itzsoweezee]

The game is fine. I'd rather see teams shooting a bunch of threes than post-ups and mid-range jumpers.

[Bojo]

They're not gonna "get more comfortable" at it because Pop won't allow it. You think he wouldn't pull the young players if they started firing pull-up 3's in transition like most modern NBA teams do nowadays? Nah. The fact that the Spurs are hell-bent on archaic offensive sets, even when running a "more free" offense than last year or the other one, is all the evidence you need. Or did you catch Pop making an emphasis that the Spurs gotta shoot more 3's after that embarrassing Jazz loss? No you didn't - even though it was, by far, the main reason we lost.

Having said that, the Spurs catching up with the league's playstyle might make them more unwatchable in my eyes. Modern games are just so boring as a neutral fan, I've been having trouble checking into other teams because it's just 3pt shot after 3pt shot, non stop. You start to not care after a while.

I'd agree, Pop wants to see movement before a shot is taken, so he wouldn't be pleased with those walk-up chucks. That doesn't mean guys should not take threes after a pass or two when they are open. For example, I feel like White did this pretty well in the bubble, and Lonnie did it well in Memphis.

And yes, I don't want the Spurs to be a team that does that shit Bogdanovich did a few times yesterday (walk across the line, no pass, instachuck). But they need to take the open looks generated by ball movement. Not taking those and going for hesistant, half-hearted drives vs Gobert (really?) won't lead us anywhere.

[gospursgojas]

Casual fans are the NBAs demo. Casuals think shooting an open three is more exciting/difficult than a low post move.

[i'm_still_beta]

0-12 ft shots for 1 point, 12-23,9 ft shots for 2 points, 23,9-94 ft for 3 points

[i'm_still_beta]

0-12 ft shots for 1 point, 12-23,9 ft shots for 2 points, 23,9-94 ft for 3 points
or this will only encourage 3-point chucking. Dumb

0-12 ft shots for 2 points, 12-23,9 ft shots for 2,5 points, 23,9-94 ft for 3 points. That's better. 50% from mid-range worth more then 40% from 3. Good.

Longer distance, more points per shot

[Robz4000]

Casual fans are the NBAs demo. Casuals think shooting an open three is more exciting/difficult than a low post move.

Its disgusting how the league has whored itself out to casual fans. Never seen another professional sports league bend over backwards for fans who will come and go on a whim.

[XDT76]

They're not gonna "get more comfortable" at it because Pop won't allow it. You think he wouldn't pull the young players if they started firing pull-up 3's in transition like most modern NBA teams do nowadays? Nah. The fact that the Spurs are hell-bent on archaic offensive sets, even when running a "more free" offense than last year or the other one, is all the evidence you need. Or did you catch Pop making an emphasis that the Spurs gotta shoot more 3's after that embarrassing Jazz loss? No you didn't - even though it was, by far, the main reason we lost.

Having said that, the Spurs catching up with the league's playstyle might make them more unwatchable in my eyes. Modern games are just so boring as a neutral fan, I've been having trouble checking into other teams because it's just 3pt shot after 3pt shot, non stop. You start to not care after a while.

They were allowed to fire away in the first 2 games with more than 30 3s. I don't think it's pop stopping them shooting, probably they just stop shooting after they missed a few. I saw Lonnie suddenly just stop shooting 3s the past couple of games and try to cut to the basket. I really doubt that is always the play. Do remember that Pop is the guy who starts getting players firing more 3s from the corner a decade ago.

[XDT76]

or this will only encourage 3-point chucking. Dumb

0-12 ft shots for 2 points, 12-23,9 ft shots for 2,5 points, 23,9-94 ft for 3 points. That's better. 50% from mid-range worth more then 40% from 3. Good.

Longer distance, more points per shot

Sorry quote wrongly

[J_Paco]

3 pointer is just a skill like FT shooting. Either improve on this skill or defend it better. You guys are forgetting Spurs defense during D'Antoni Suns days. Also see how the Lakers defended the 3 in the playoffs.

They are an above average three-point shooting team (through only 5 games they rank 12th overall at 37.2%) but don't shot nearly high enough volume (tied for 3rd worst at 28.7 per game).

Like someone else said, they just don't shot them in early offense like most teams today do. The Spurs try to work to many half court sets and passing up open three-point shots (looking at you, Lonnie) for less efficient mid-range looks or floaters.

Derrick would have helped a lot in this area since he wasn't afraid to "chuck" in the bubble, but his other young teammates are (or mostly drive to the hoop).

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I'd agree, Pop wants to see movement before a shot is taken, so he wouldn't be pleased with those walk-up chucks.

I'm not sure what 2021 Pop wants, but ball movement and halfcourt sets are definitely not what they're doing. They're near the bottom in passes per game and lead the league in drives by a huge margin. I'm also pretty sure they're bottom in corner 3s. They don't try to run anything in the halfcourt. They're playing summer league basketball with lots of freedom but little structure. I hate it.


And yes, I don't want the Spurs to be a team that does that shit Bogdanovich did a few times yesterday (walk across the line, no pass, instachuck). But they need to take the open looks generated by ball movement. Not taking those and going for hesistant, half-hearted drives vs Gobert (really?) won't lead us anywhere.

I agree, they need to get some ball movement going, it can be generated from drives or even Aldridge post-ups when he's back. Just get some structure because right now they're going nowhere. I know Pop got some love this season for having a good rotation but I feel the actual coaching has been missing completely and I don't see how this would help in player development, which should be the most important thing this season.

[tbdog]

3 pointer is just a skill like FT shooting. Either improve on this skill or defend it better. You guys are forgetting Spurs defense during D'Antoni Suns days. Also see how the Lakers defended the 3 in the playoffs.

In the 2005/2006 season when the Suns got to the WCF, they led the league in 3PA. They shot it 2.3 attempts more than the second most, and 5.7 attempts more than the third most. They shot it 25.6 a game.

They would be last in today's league, 2 attempts less than the Knicks and a whopping 19.2 less than the Raptors.

[tbdog]

Unfortunately, defenses can't give up anything now other than a midrange. It's kinda a joke when teams would defend Harden at such an extreme where they are actually behind him.

As I have said a dozen times, if your not blocking a 3 point shot, its an open shot. You can't defend a 3 without blocking. You must let them land. If your going for a dig or a post double team, you are giving up an open look.

[exstatic]

The argument is that it stopped the challenging shots at the rim that was more prevalent in the 90s and 2000s. Also, there's a bit of an injury risk with guards sliding under bigger players as they jump. It's also lead to an increase in flops.

It's an interesting thought though I don't know if it would have a desired affect of promoting less 3pt chucking.

Charging is not a new rule. It existed in the 90s and 2000s, and people managed to make those shots anyway.

If you’re sliding under players who are in the air, it isn’t a charge, it’s a blocking foul. If you’re not in the air, it’s on you to see them in position, and avoid. Most charges I see are players who just aren’t paying attention, and are a bit out of control with their dribble.

[jjspur]

I like your ideas, although some players scoring average would surely drop since they shoot a lot of 3's.

[cd021]

Charging is not a new rule. It existed in the 90s and 2000s, and people managed to make those shots anyway.

If you’re sliding under players who are in the air, it isn’t a charge, it’s a blocking foul. If you’re not in the air, it’s on you to see them in position, and avoid. Most charges I see are players who just aren’t paying attention, and are a bit out of control with their dribble.

Charges began to tick up after the rule changes in 2000's though, it isn't as common for players to take charges near the rim anymore but it might still be a deterrent towards driving. I'm more in favor of pushing the line back by a foot and eliminating corner threes. That would limit the amount of chucking, if the NBA wants to.

[K...]

You can make as many 3s as you want, but for every 3 you miss you get publicly whipped at halftime or after the game one whip per three misses. Maybe some teams use canes, or water boarding. Just for fun, don't want to hurt the players just humble the chuckers a bit.

[lebomb]

How about for every 3 pt shot a player misses, the opposing team gets 1 pt? That would slow this chuckin shit down.

[ragas]

I don't mind the 3pt shooting, but the refs should allow the players to defend again. Every little touch results in a whistle. That's why games get boring sometimes.

[RC_Drunkford]

the soultion is easy: Just allow players to play defense instead of calling every type of contact a foul