Enough is enough.......... Real NBA > Todays NBA

[lebomb]

The real NBA of the 80's, 90's and early 2000's is vastly better than Todays NBA.

......and here is why:

Todays NBA

:wtf Fat PGs that chuck 3's
:wtf 7'-2" SGs
:wtf Centers with 3pt green light
:wtf Matadore defense
:wtf brush a niggas arm is a flaggrant foul
:wtf 120lb. PF's (basically there are no real PF's)
:wtf Noone can hit a 2pt shot anymore
:wtf Superstars living at the FT all game
:wtf 8 crossovers bringin ball up, only to turn it over
:wtf 3pt shots and layups is all teams offense

Clearly the REAL NBA was way, way better and required more talent.

:claw

[i'm_still_beta]

The real NBA of the 80's, 90's and early 2000's is vastly better than Todays NBA.

......and here is why:

Todays NBA

:wtf Fat PGs that chuck 3's
:wtf 7'-2" SGs
:wtf Centers with 3pt green light
:wtf Matadore defense
:wtf brush a niggas arm is a flaggrant foul
:wtf 120lb. PF's (basically there are no real PF's)
:wtf Noone can hit a 2pt shot anymore
:wtf Superstars living at the FT all game
:wtf 3pt shots and layups is all teams offense

Clearly the REAL NBA was way, way better and required more talent.

:claw

Yesterday's NBA is more fun to watch but make no mistake about it - Yesterday's NBA plumbers would've been skullf***ed by today's players. Skill beats overrated "physicality". Patrick Ewing would be Roy Hibbert in today's nba. 80's and 90's plumbers would be run out of the f***ing gym

[i'm_still_beta]

The real NBA of the 80's, 90's and early 2000's is vastly better than Todays NBA.

Clearly the REAL NBA was way, way better and required more talent.

:claw

Yes. That's why unskilled stiffs and scrubs like Kurt Rambis, Mark Eaton, Charles Oakley were starters. They were talented at being tall, strong and waste of space. Instead of those bums we have talented young studs like Trae Young, Damian Lillard. Centers who can shoot, pass and defend multiple positions and etc.

More talent in 90's and 80's lol. I'm not even talking about international players

[i'm_still_beta]

https://imgur.com/a/3ufXKPkhttps://imgur.com/a/3ufXKPkhttps://i.imgur.com/WDYhA2A.jpeg

[lefty]

Well there is alway YouTube if you prefer tbh

But be aware that you will have regrets when you realize you could have been a starter in the 80s/90s NBA

[Robz4000]

Today's players are more athletic and talented in general, but mentally they're softer. Just imagining the NBA allowing hand-checking and harder fouls ala the mid-00s is :lol. Players like Harden and Dominos would an hero by halftime.

[lebomb]

Yes. That's why unskilled stiffs and scrubs like Kurt Rambis, Mark Eaton, Charles Oakley were starters. They were talented at being tall, strong and waste of space. Instead of those bums we have talented young studs like Trae Young, Damian Lillard. Centers who can shoot, pass and defend multiple positions and etc.

More talent in 90's and 80's lol. I'm not even talking about international players


AI
Barkley
Shawn Kemp
Bird
Magic
Penny
D. Robinson would dominate in todays NBA
Stockton
Malone would destroy the PFs or so called PFs now
MJ
Bernard King
Olajuwan
Gary Payton
Clyde Drexler


Stop naming off 6th men homie :rollin . These dudes above would mop the floor with half Todays NBA.

[lebomb]

MJ would avg 47pts a game in Todays NBA. With no hand checking, and light as a feather fouls? LMAO

[Dirks_Finale]

This is undeniable, tbh.


MJ would avg 47pts a game in Todays NBA. With no hand checking, and light as a feather fouls? LMAO

[Dirks_Finale]

Saw a mini documentary on DROB posted by lefty. The narrator compared him to Giannis which I had never actually considered, but come to think about it, I think it's a fair comparison. But I'd much rather have David than Giannis, tbh. The guy was a beast on the defensive end and was able to check studs like Shaq.

And people in this forum seem to think guys like Price and Stockton wouldn't be much today. I beg to differ. They make up for the lack in athleticism with grit and wit. And they were lights out from distance which is what matters in today's boring game. Their stats would be inflated today just like Trae Young's stats are inflated.


AI
Barkley
Shawn Kemp
Bird
Magic
Penny
D. Robinson would dominate in todays NBA
Stockton
Malone would destroy the PFs or so called PFs now
MJ
Bernard King
Olajuwan
Gary Payton
Clyde Drexler


Stop naming off 6th men homie :rollin . These dudes above would mop the floor with half Todays NBA.

[lefty]

MJ would avg 47pts a game in Todays NBA. With no hand checking, and light as a feather fouls? LMAO
:lol no

If you want to have an idea of what MJ would be like today, look no further than the guy wearing 10 for the Spurs

[lefty]

https://imgur.com/a/3ufXKPkhttps://imgur.com/a/3ufXKPkhttps://i.imgur.com/WDYhA2A.jpeg
:lol WTF is this shit

[Dirks_Finale]

Today's players are more athletic and talented in general, but mentally they're softer. Just imagining the NBA allowing hand-checking and harder fouls ala the mid-00s is :lol. Players like Harden and Dominos would an hero by halftime.

This is also undeniable, tbh.

I think a select few would be fine in the 90's, like Lebron. Built like a truck so he's good. Trae Young would be mop up time, end of bench, tbh. :lol

[Neo.]

The real NBA of the 80's, 90's and early 2000's is vastly better than Todays NBA.

......and here is why:

Todays NBA

:wtf Fat PGs that chuck 3's
:wtf 7'-2" SGs
:wtf Centers with 3pt green light
:wtf Matadore defense
:wtf brush a niggas arm is a flaggrant foul
:wtf 120lb. PF's (basically there are no real PF's)
:wtf Noone can hit a 2pt shot anymore
:wtf Superstars living at the FT all game
:wtf 8 crossovers bringin ball up, only to turn it over
:wtf 3pt shots and layups is all teams offense

Clearly the REAL NBA was way, way better and required more talent.

:claw

lol utsa
lol mma

your credibility is shot, thus your opinion is shot. sorry.

[daslicer]

:lol no

If you want to have an idea of what MJ would be like today, look no further than the guy wearing 10 for the Spurs

Kawhi actually is the closet to Jordan when it comes to play style. He has the big hands and long arms like Jordan. He also has the same post up game along with an identical fadeaway What Kawhi lacks that Jordan has is Jordan's super athletic ability along with Jordan's quick first step. He also doesn't have Jordan's leadership, high basketball IQ, along with Jordan's great durability.

[i'm_still_beta]

:lol WTF is this shit

Brutal 80's gladiators who are supossed to destroy LeBron every time he drives to the basket

[i'm_still_beta]

Kawhi actually is the closet to Jordan when it comes to play style. He has the big hands and long arms like Jordan. He also has the same post up game along with an identical fadeaway What Kawhi lacks that Jordan has is Jordan's super athletic ability along with Jordan's quick first step. He also doesn't have Jordan's leadership, high basketball IQ, along with Jordan's great durability.

:lmao

[daslicer]

:lmao

I really don't know how you can say Jordan doesn't have a high basketball IQ.

I didn't agree with Jordan's leadership methods but it worked. There are two types of leaders in the NBA from what I have seen on championship teams. You are either in the mold of a Russell,Duncan,Bird,Hakeem, in the sense you are laid back/stoic but know how to bring a team together through camaraderie and leading by example. The other type of leadership is Jordan,Kobe,Draymond in which you lead through being a ruthless dictator and demand the best from your teammates and don't tolerate disrespect.

[i'm_still_beta]

I really don't know how you can say Jordan doesn't have a high basketball IQ.

I didn't agree with Jordan's leadership methods but it worked. There are two types of leaders in the NBA from what I have seen on championship teams. You are either in the mold of a Russell,Duncan,Bird,Hakeem, in the sense you are laid back/stoic but know how to bring a team together through camaraderie and leading by example. The other type of leadership is Jordan,Kobe,Draymond in which you lead through being a ruthless dictator and demand the best from your teammates and don't tolerate disrespect.

Jordan's leadership methods work with stacked team's like 90's Bulls, I agree.

If passing out of double teams (something he wasn't smart enough to do in the 80's) and gambling defense (that payed off more often than not because he was such a great athlete) is high basketball iq, then I agree once again.

I don't say that Jordan is dumb. No. But he isn't smart either. He's average. Sports fans tend to exaggerate intellectual abilities of their heroes. Some guy on RealGm wrote that LeBron is one of the brightest people he had ever seen and that LeBron would be very succesful at any field he'd have chosen (I hope it was trolling). Imagine LeBron concentrating on coding, figure skating or nuclear bombs. He would be the best at that (no).

Jordan never seemed to have high basketball iq, at least in my eyes. He was just extremely athletic and skilled.

[lefty]

Jordan was an overrated defender, as mentioned in the post above he gambled often on steals and offensively he took a lot of bad shots, good thing he was guarded by smaller part time janitors and MTV rap rejects

Pippen and Phil brought the basketball IQ

[ambchang]

I really don't know how you can say Jordan doesn't have a high basketball IQ.

I didn't agree with Jordan's leadership methods but it worked. There are two types of leaders in the NBA from what I have seen on championship teams. You are either in the mold of a Russell,Duncan,Bird,Hakeem, in the sense you are laid back/stoic but know how to bring a team together through camaraderie and leading by example. The other type of leadership is Jordan,Kobe,Draymond in which you lead through being a ruthless dictator and demand the best from your teammates and don't tolerate disrespect.

Bird was known as one of the biggest assholes around.

Hakeem led his team by forcing trades.

[lebomb]

:rolleyes:rolleyesToday’s NBA players shoot a higher percentage 3 pt shot than they do a 2pt shot. Not counting Undefended layups that they make constantly. :depressed

[daslicer]

Bird was known as one of the biggest assholes around.

Hakeem led his team by forcing trades.

Larry was an asshole towards his opponents but not his teammates. Robert Parish confirmed this in an interview he had with his former teammate Cedric Maxwell. Parish said that Bird was never an ass hole in practice or barked at his teammates like Jordan did. Parish stated that Bird would leave you alone when you were playing bad.

Hakeem was a terrible teammate up until he found Islam so you are right about that. I should have been clear and said when Hakeem matured he became a great leader which is correct.

[daslicer]

Jordan's leadership methods work with stacked team's like 90's Bulls, I agree.

If passing out of double teams (something he wasn't smart enough to do in the 80's) and gambling defense (that payed off more often than not because he was such a great athlete) is high basketball iq, then I agree once again.

I don't say that Jordan is dumb. No. But he isn't smart either. He's average. Sports fans tend to exaggerate intellectual abilities of their heroes. Some guy on RealGm wrote that LeBron is one of the brightest people he had ever seen and that LeBron would be very succesful at any field he'd have chosen (I hope it was trolling). Imagine LeBron concentrating on coding, figure skating or nuclear bombs. He would be the best at that (no).

Jordan never seemed to have high basketball iq, at least in my eyes. He was just extremely athletic and skilled.

1.Jordan's basketball IQ was pretty good considering he was able to play off the ball while Pippen ran the offense. Not many superstars can play off the ball and know what spots to get to the way Jordan was able to operate in the triangle . Recently I would say Curry is the only guy I have seen who was a superstar that was good at playing off the ball. I guess you could say the same about Durant when he played with the Warriors. Jordan was also good at playing angles along with being an above average play maker.

2. Obviously outside of basketball Jordan and Lebron are not geniuses. I would never say Jordan has an above average IQ outside of basketball. We are talking about basketball not whether these guys can solve algebraic equations. TBH I think both Lebron and MJ would be working at Walmart or be in jail if it wasn't for basketball.

[DAF86]

Kawhi actually is the closet to Jordan when it comes to play style. He has the big hands and long arms like Jordan. He also has the same post up game along with an identical fadeaway What Kawhi lacks that Jordan has is Jordan's super athletic ability along with Jordan's quick first step. He also doesn't have Jordan's leadership, high basketball IQ, along with Jordan's great durability.

Jordan doesn't have Kawhi's 3pt shooting, and he's considerably shorter. Not in height, but in length.

[daslicer]

Jordan doesn't have Kawhi's 3pt shooting, and he's considerably shorter. Not in height, but in length.

Jordan's wingspan was 6'11 while Kawhi is 7'3. So Kawhi's length was a little bit longer. Kawhi is physically bigger than Jordan. Jordan was a great 3 point shooter from '95-'97 when the league moved the line back. Granted once the line was moved forward his 3 point shooting dropped during his final year with the bulls. But I think he would have eventually adjusted when it comes to getting better as a 3 point shooter. He just didn't put much of an emphasis on it since it wasn't a big part of the game when he played.

[ambchang]

Larry was an asshole towards his opponents but not his teammates. Robert Parish confirmed this in an interview he had with his former teammate Cedric Maxwell. Parish said that Bird was never an ass hole in practice or barked at his teammates like Jordan did. Parish stated that Bird would leave you alone when you were playing bad.

Hakeem was a terrible teammate up until he found Islam so you are right about that. I should have been clear and said when Hakeem matured he became a great leader which is correct.

Ask Kevin mchale. Bird was a total absolute asshole to him with the constant passive aggressive snipes at him.

[lefty]

Bird is also a terrible father

[Bynumite]

Today's NBA summarized in one short video :lol





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXcIhfdICwI&ab_channel=DUNKFESTNBA

[lefty]

Still better than yesterday’s NBA :lol

[Dirks_Finale]

Soft and moist :lol


Today's NBA summarized in one short video :lol





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXcIhfdICwI&ab_channel=DUNKFESTNBA

[lebomb]

Soft and moist :lol

Exactly!! There are NO real tough niggras in the NBA anymore. Where are the enforcers? Todays NBA enforcer is 6'-8' , 175lbs. :rollin
Not needed I guess, brushin up against a niggras leg will get you a flagrant and 1.

:rolleyes

[lefty]

:lol acting like 80s-90s players weren't soft

Kareem and Tragic looking at the refs everytime someone stripped the ball from them :lol

Jordan whining to Stern because the Pistons were too mean to him :lol

"Stern, fat plumber Bill Lame Beer touched me, make him stahp pls" :cry

Stern obliged and changed the rules for Jordan, that'S the softest shit ever :lmao

:lol letting Danny Change get under your skin :lol

[lefty]

brushin up against a niggras leg will get you a flagrant and 1.

:rolleyes
lol you want to see the flagrant they called in the 90s?

13:49 Daugherty barely touches MJ, flagrant foul :lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPBz3_Jgd-U


:lol yesterday's NBA fans ladies and gentlemen, when narratives are preferred to logic and facts

[daslicer]

Bird is also a terrible father

NBA fathers today better than NBA fathers of the past.

[daslicer]

Exactly!! There are NO real tough niggras in the NBA anymore. Where are the enforcers? Todays NBA enforcer is 6'-8' , 175lbs. :rollin
Not needed I guess, brushin up against a niggras leg will get you a flagrant and 1.

:rolleyes

WBZ4Al-zAQU

[R. DeMurre]

It's a silly argument. Players adapted to the 3 pt shot because they had to, and it changed the game.

[Dirks_Finale]

Exactly!! There are NO real tough niggras in the NBA anymore. Where are the enforcers? Todays NBA enforcer is 6'-8' , 175lbs. :rollin
Not needed I guess, brushin up against a niggras leg will get you a flagrant and 1.

:rolleyes

We have a select few like Pat Bev. He has the dog in him. But no real enforcers up front. Just 6'5 centers and a bunch of uncontested layups, tbh.

[Neo.]

:lol acting like 80s-90s players weren't soft

Kareem and Tragic looking at the refs everytime someone stripped the ball from them :lol

Jordan whining to Stern because the Pistons were too mean to him :lol

"Stern, fat plumber Bill Lame Beer touched me, make him stahp pls" :cry

Stern obliged and changed the rules for Jordan, that'S the softest shit ever :lmao

:lol letting Danny Change get under your skin :lol

this lol

literally the only difference was that blatant flagrant 2 fouls were less penalized, therefore players didnt mind doing it as much, as opposed to today where its 5+ game suspensions.

[Dirks_Finale]

Hello police - Chris Paul trying to beat me up :lol Today's big man mentality :lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO5Ww26XHtI

[Dirks_Finale]

Listen to the crowd's reaction. Nobody could believe it was flagrant because a soft foul like that was never actually a flagrant. Half the time it wasn't even a foul :lol. That's MJ, he got some special treatment just as Lebron does. That ref probably wanted an autographed pair of shoes for his kids so he hooked him up.


lol you want to see the flagrant they called in the 90s?

13:49 Daugherty barely touches MJ, flagrant foul :lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPBz3_Jgd-U


:lol yesterday's NBA fans ladies and gentlemen, when narratives are preferred to logic and facts

[lebomb]

Matador defenses of Todays NBA.

[i'm_still_beta]

Matador defenses of Todays NBA.

No defense in yesterday's nba - everyone standing and watching Barkley/Jordan/Hakeem iso helpless defender to death or they use telegraphed double-teams that lead to pass on perimeter to easy wide-open shot. No match for coordinated beatiful zone defenses of today. Yes, there're occasional lapses but still, you get the point.

[i'm_still_beta]

Soft and moist :lol

:lol


https://streamable.com/u4xrjw

[lebomb]

No defense in yesterday's nba - everyone standing and watching Barkley/Jordan/Hakeem iso helpless defender to death or they use telegraphed double-teams that lead to pass on perimeter to easy wide-open shot. No match for coordinated beatiful zone defenses of today. Yes, there're occasional lapses but still, you get the point.

You are obviously a youngstuh and didnt watch the game back then. A foul was a FOUL. Not this ticky tack isht. You come through the lane a bit too much and they sat you on your ass. Next time down, you took a nice jumper instead of driving. Thats how ya do it.

[i'm_still_beta]

You are obviously a youngstuh and didnt watch the game back then. A foul was a FOUL. Not this ticky tack isht. You come through the lane a bit too much and they sat you on your ass. Next time down, you took a nice jumper instead of driving. Thats how ya do it.

Oh, classic you're too young argument.

Son, I started to watch nba when you was suffering from your first wet dreams.

Anyway, there were a lot of soft calls back then


https://youtu.be/qPBz3_Jgd-U?t=37

[lebomb]

Oh, classic you're too young argument.

Son, I started to watch nba when you was suffering from your first wet dreams.

Anyway, there were a lot of soft calls back then



Not even close to as many soft ass calls as there are today. You cant even hand check nor forearm check. They blow the whistle before the foul is even attempted in Todays NBA. Hell, its not even a foul 50% of the time.

[i'm_still_beta]

Not even close to as many soft ass calls as there are today. You cant even hand check nor forearm check. They blow the whistle before the foul is even attempted in Todays NBA. Hell, its not even a foul 50% of the time.

Yes, Harden and Durant received a lot of bad calls in their favor. But basketball was always a soft game. And hand checks don't have more impact than today's soft zones, imo

[lefty]

Listen to the crowd's reaction. Nobody could believe it was flagrant because a soft foul like that was never actually a flagrant. Half the time it wasn't even a foul :lol. That's MJ, he got some special treatment just as Lebron does. That ref probably wanted an autographed pair of shoes for his kids so he hooked him up.
Wrong, MJ is the most ref protected player in the history if the NBA, BY FAR :lol

[lefty]

Oh, classic you're too young argument.

Son, I started to watch nba when you was suffering from your first wet dreams.

Anyway, there were a lot of soft calls back then


https://youtu.be/qPBz3_Jgd-U?t=37
bUt tOdAys pLaYeRs fLoP
hAnd cHeCkinG hErP DerP

:lol yesterday's NBA logic

[lefty]

Another myth shattered ..................


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEF1lVcUDEk&t=173s

[i'm_still_beta]

Another myth shattered ..................


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEF1lVcUDEk&t=173s

TheRiggedBA tbh :worthy:

Holding 80's and 90's nba lovers in check

[Down Under]

I swear there has been the same threads copied & pasted on this site for the past 5 years.

[Dirks_Finale]

Another myth shattered ..................


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEF1lVcUDEk&t=173s

Anecdotals :lol

These old heads on the show are speaking in generalities. Always exceptions to the rule that you can find on the interwebs, tbh.

[lebomb]

Another myth shattered ..................


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEF1lVcUDEk&t=173s

Showing games from 10yrs ago to prove a point on Today’s NBA. Lmao!!! Show a recent game niggra. You won’t see any defenses like anything you showed.

[Neo.]

Anecdotals :lol

These old heads on the show are speaking in generalities. Always exceptions to the rule that you can find on the interwebs, tbh.

so basically hand checking only works against players who have no speed, quickness and handles. which doesnt apply to any of todays perimeter stars. got it :tu

[Neo.]

Listen to the crowd's reaction. Nobody could believe it was flagrant because a soft foul like that was never actually a flagrant. Half the time it wasn't even a foul :lol. That's MJ, he got some special treatment just as Lebron does. That ref probably wanted an autographed pair of shoes for his kids so he hooked him up.

same exact reaction that 99% of flagrant fouls receive

[lefty]

so basically hand checking only works against players who have no speed, quickness and handles. which doesnt apply to any of todays perimeter stars. got it :tu


same exact reaction that 99% of flagrant fouls receive

[Chucho]

:lol WTF is this shit

Playing with balls.

Today's NBA player would be out 2 seasons minimal.

[lefty]

Playing with balls.

Today's NBA player would be out 2 seasons minimal.
Playing wit balls AKA Boston had no bench because let'S face it those 80s 90s benches were terrible, and also sheer stupidity to play an injured player like that

:lol Austin Rivers would have dropped 250 pts in 20 minutes on that crippled nigga

:lol 80s/90s and their lower IQ

[Chucho]

Playing wit balls AKA Boston had no bench because let'S face it those 80s 90s benches were terrible, and also sheer stupidity to play an injured player like that

:lol Austin Rivers would have dropped 250 pts in 20 minutes on that crippled nigga

:lol 80s/90s and their lower IQ

Autism Rivers can't even drop 25 points across 5 games in today's NBA. :lol

Today's NBA players need load management and can't even wipe their own asses :lol

[lefty]

Autism Rivers can't even drop 25 points across 5 games in today's NBA. :lol

Today's NBA players need load management and can't even wipe their own asses :lol

That’s because today’s NBA is much better , he is not playing against a crippled skinny midget scrub like Henderson :lol

:lol thinking yesterday’s NBA players werw not pussies, please, Magic, Kareem, Jordan were certified pussies

[lebomb]

Magic, Kareem, Jordan were certified pussies

Now we all know you are crazy. :dizzy

[Chucho]

That’s because today’s NBA is much better , he is not playing against a crippled skinny midget scrub like Henderson :lol

:lol thinking yesterday’s NBA players werw not pussies, please, Magic, Kareem, Jordan were certified pussies

The only resemblance today's players have to Jordan is their douchebaggery and unlikeability.

[lefty]

The only resemblance today's players have to Jordan is their douchebaggery and unlikeability.

And Demar Derozan

[i'm_still_beta]

Now we all know you are crazy. :dizzy

To be fair, they were.

Kareeem aka "trade me from Milwaukee to LA because of my cultural needs" Abdul-Jabbar

Magic "I'm not going to play for the Bulls if they draft me" Johnson

Michael "My team sucks, I hate being out there with those garbagemen, trade me" Jordan

[lefty]

To be fair, they were.

Kareeem aka "trade me from Milwaukee to LA because of my cultural needs" Abdul-Jabbar

Magic "I'm not going to play for the Bulls if they draft me" Johnson

Michael "My team sucks, I hate being out there with those garbagemen, trade me" Jordan

All this.

Magic also told Buss « it’s either me or him » (Westhead) and he probably got Nixon traded too

Not to mention Magic, Kareem and Jordan constantly whining to the referees.

Jordan took it another notch when he went crying to Stern because the Pistons were to tough for him

Fucking faggets

[leemajors]

I always forget how much lefty hates dadkiller, glad I came by here.

[lefty]

I always forget how much lefty hates dadkiller, glad I came by here.

Nah I don’t hate the guy, but the dumb narratives tbh

[daslicer]

All this.

Magic also told Buss « it’s either me or him » (Westhead) and he probably got Nixon traded too

Not to mention Magic, Kareem and Jordan constantly whining to the referees.

Jordan took it another notch when he went crying to Stern because the Pistons were to tough for him

Fucking faggets

How upset were you in '91 when Jordan swept the Pistons and ended them?

[lefty]

How upset were you in '91 when Jordan swept the Pistons and ended them?

I’m not a Pistons fan in case you didn’t notice

[daslicer]

I’m not a Pistons fan in case you didn’t notice

But your are a hardcore Jordan hater. I'm sure him taking out the Pisons had to frustrate you since they were the only team that could stop MJ from winning.

[lebomb]

All this.

Magic also told Buss « it’s either me or him » (Westhead) and he probably got Nixon traded too

Not to mention Magic, Kareem and Jordan constantly whining to the referees.

Jordan took it another notch when he went crying to Stern because the Pistons were to tough for him

Fucking faggets

This is Todays NBA to a tee. Hardenburger, Lebron, Kyrie, Westbrook demanding trades......whaaaa, waaaaaa, waaaaa, trade me now, Im takin my toys and going home. At least the ol school players didnt eat their way into a trade. :lmao

[Dirks_Finale]

Thinking back to that era...you had maybe 80% of the country loving Jordan regardless of who their team was and realizing this was some legendary ish they were watching in real time. Then the other 20% couldn't stand him because of his arrogance and because he didn't give anyone else a chance to ring. lefty falls into that category. Probably he liked one of this other stars like Ewing or Malone or someone and is a tad butthurt because Jordan slammed the door in all their faces :lol


But your are a hardcore Jordan hater. I'm sure him taking out the Pisons had to frustrate you since they were the only team that could stop MJ from winning.

[Neo.]

This is Todays NBA to a tee. Hardenburger, Lebron, Kyrie, Westbrook demanding trades......whaaaa, waaaaaa, waaaaa, trade me now, Im takin my toys and going home. At least the ol school players didnt eat their way into a trade. :lmao

it was yesterday's nba to a tee as well

the only difference is that players have more power than they used to have

[i'm_still_beta]

it was yesterday's nba to a tee as well

the only difference is that players have more power than they used to have

Exactly

[i'm_still_beta]

Thinking back to that era...you had maybe 80% of the country loving Jordan regardless of who their team was and realizing this was some legendary ish they were watching in real time. Then the other 20% couldn't stand him because of his arrogance and because he didn't give anyone else a chance to ring. lefty (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=6896) falls into that category. Probably he liked one of this other stars like Ewing or Malone or someone and is a tad butthurt because Jordan slammed the door in all their faces :lol

No. Some people dislike Jordan because:

1. He's become overrated. People started to diminish his supporting cast that was the best in the league (and perfectly designed for him). And also started to overrate his skills (like saying that he was an elite passer, had great post defense against post-up guards kile Magic and Clyde Drexler, for example);

2. Some rules were changed to enhance his game (hand-checking, flagrant foul);

3. He received a lot of star-calls, whey more than Hakeem, Barkley, etc. Because of that, his accomplishments look a little bit tainted. 2 early fouls against other team's best defender - and MJ has a field day. 2-3 bad calls in his favor in an act of shooting - and his ppg and ts% goes way up. It's easier to become the best as the result - having the per game and advanced stats;

4. Advanced stats are changed in such a way that he comes up on top. Any. Way. Possible.

[Dirks_Finale]

Well, if you want to see overrated look at some of today's big stat stuffing guys like Westbrick. A bunch of triple doubles that mean absolutely nothing. :lol

Jordan did have an excellent supporting cast and I'm not sure who is/was undermining that fact. I think maybe you just mean it get's lost in the fray, which is sort of inevitable...


No. Some people dislike Jordan because:

1. He's become overrated. People started to diminish his supporting cast that was the best in the league (and perfectly designed for him). And also started to overrate his skills (like saying that he was an elite passer, had great post defense against post-up guards kile Magic and Clyde Drexler, for example);

2. Some rules were changed to enhance his game (hand-checking, flagrant foul);

3. He received a lot of star-calls, whey more than Hakeem, Barkley, etc. Because of that, his accomplishments look a little bit tainted. 2 early fouls against other team's best defender - and MJ has a field day. 2-3 bad calls in his favor in an act of shooting - and his ppg and ts% goes way up. It's easier to become the best as the result - having the per game and advanced stats;

4. Advanced stats are changed in such a way that he comes up on top. Any. Way. Possible.

[lefty]

This is Todays NBA to a tee. Hardenburger, Lebron, Kyrie, Westbrook demanding trades......whaaaa, waaaaaa, waaaaa, trade me now, Im takin my toys and going home. At least the ol school players didnt eat their way into a trade. :lmao

I’m not saying players don’t act like bitches today, they do, I’m just tired of hearing back in the good old days they didn’t do this and that which is not true

Barkley was fatter when he pushed for that Houston trade :lol

[Neo.]

Well, if you want to see overrated look at some of today's big stat stuffing guys like Westbrick. A bunch of triple doubles that mean absolutely nothing. :lol

ah yes reminds me of previous era statstuffers like wilt, oscar, nique, dantley, english, among many others

[Neo.]

I’m not saying players don’t act like bitches today, they do, I’m just tired of hearing back in the good old days they didn’t do this and that which is not true


:toast

[dbreiden83080]

This Tag Team approach of the players, is just killing the league anymore IMO.. And in basically the Lebron era he did start that shit in Miami.. But now all these guys just buddy up, work out over the summer, and want to play together. Having 1 Superstar mate used to be enough, now these guys wants Big 3's all conspiring to play together.. For me it becomes hard to truly evaluate a legacy in these times. Someone like KD a great player, is struggling to get over the hump in OKC. 1 finals appearance, a few conference finals appearances but no chip.. Then he hooks up with a 73 win team, and wins 2 with 2 finals MVP's.. Does that make him top 10-15 all time like some claim? Not IMO.. Now Harden after putting up massive numbers in Houston, winning scoring titles, league MVP, with ZERO finals appearances, wants to try and win a few the easy way..

I love basketball, but this shit I just can't stand..

[Neo.]

This Tag Team approach of the players, is just killing the league anymore IMO.. And in basically the Lebron era he did start that shit in Miami.. But now all these guys just buddy up, work out over the summer, and want to play together. Having 1 Superstar mate used to be enough, now these guys wants Big 3's all conspiring to play together.. For me it becomes hard to truly evaluate a legacy in these times. Someone like KD a great player, is struggling to get over the hump in OKC. 1 finals appearance, a few conference finals appearances but no chip.. Then he hooks up with a 73 win team, and wins 2 with 2 finals MVP's.. Does that make him top 10-15 all time like some claim? Not IMO.. Now Harden after putting up massive numbers in Houston, winning scoring titles, league MVP, with ZERO finals appearances, wants to try and win a few the easy way..

I love basketball, but this shit I just can't stand..

having 1 superstar teammate was almost never enough, unless there was multiple other all-star level teammates

there have been anomalies here and there but through history it's pretty much always been 2-3 superstars, especially for teams that win multiple times

[140]

This Tag Team approach of the players, is just killing the league anymore IMO.. And in basically the Lebron era he did start that shit in Miami.. But now all these guys just buddy up, work out over the summer, and want to play together. Having 1 Superstar mate used to be enough, now these guys wants Big 3's all conspiring to play together.. For me it becomes hard to truly evaluate a legacy in these times. Someone like KD a great player, is struggling to get over the hump in OKC. 1 finals appearance, a few conference finals appearances but no chip.. Then he hooks up with a 73 win team, and wins 2 with 2 finals MVP's.. Does that make him top 10-15 all time like some claim? Not IMO.. Now Harden after putting up massive numbers in Houston, winning scoring titles, league MVP, with ZERO finals appearances, wants to try and win a few the easy way..

I love basketball, but this shit I just can't stand..
All of this, especially the bold tbh...ever since then you might as well call the NBA the National Buddy up Association :lol

[lefty]

ah yes reminds me of previous era statstuffers like wilt, oscar, nique, dantley, english, among many others
and Michael Adams, Fat Lever, etc

[lefty]

All of this, especially the bold tbh...ever since then you might as well call the NBA the National Buddy up Association :lol
Calling BS on Lebron starting it

Boston did, and yes there were trades involved but let's not pretend Ray, KG and Pierce didn't have a group chat discussing about teaming up

And Lebron teamig up in Miami was a response to the creation of the big 3 in Boston
He lost to them with a shit Cavs team in, a shit Cavs team he took to the FInals, and Gilbert did nothing to improve the team

Was he supposed to stay there and never win a title? but when it comes to MJ, it was :cry poor MJ, his team is shit :cry

MJ would have teamed up if it was easy back then, but it wasn't (CBAs, contract structures), let's not forget he publicly threw his FO under the bus

Magic said he wouldn't play for Chicago if the Bulls drafted him, because :cry he wanted to play with Kareem and the Lakers :cry

SUperteams were a thing before Lebron


And let's not forget fat Barkley pushing for trades TWICE in his career to join more talented teams



:lol the bias and lack of facts from yesterday's NBA fans, SMH
:lol clinging to narratives

[Neo.]

Calling BS on Lebron starting it

Boston did, and yes there were trades involved but let's not pretend Ray, KG and Pierce didn't have a group chat discussing about teaming up

And LEbron teamig up in Miami was a respone to the creation of the big 3 in Boston
He lost to them with a shit Cavs team in, a shit Vacs team he took to the FInals, and GIlbert did nothing to improve the team

Was he supposed to stay there and enver win a title? but when t comes to MJ, it was :cry poor MJ, his team is shit :cry

MJ would have teamed up if it was easy back then, but it wasn't (CBAs, contract structures), let's not forget he publicly threw his FO under the bus

Magic said he wouldn't play for Chicago if the Bulls drafted him, because :cry he wanted to play with Kareem and the Lakers :cry

SUperteams were a thing before Lebron


And let's not forget fat Barkley pushing for trades TWICE in his career to join more talented teams



:lol the bias and lack of facts from yesterday's NBA fans, SMH
:lol clinging to narratives

not to mention failed superteam attempts with everyone going to houston in the 90s and then the malone/payton lakers in 04

[lefty]

not to mention failed superteam attempts with everyone going to houston in the 90s and then the malone/payton lakers in 04
This


Oh and let's not forget :

Defending 2 time MVP Moses Malone , title virgin teaming up with the 76ers superteam and title virgin Dr J


:lmao BUT TEAMING UP IS NEW

[Neo.]

This


Oh and let's not forget :

Defending 2 time MVP Moses Malone , title virgin teaming up with the 76ers superteam and title virgin Dr J


:lmao BUT TEAMING UP IS NEW

or wilt begging for a trade to join superstar duo west/baylor who were making the finals basically every single year in LA, but getting beat every year by another superteam steadily stacked with 4-5 superstars

[lefty]

or wilt begging for a trade to join superstar duo west/baylor who were making the finals basically every single year in LA, but getting beat every year by another superteam steadily stacked with 4-5 superstars
Exactly

[lebomb]

This Tag Team approach of the players, is just killing the league anymore IMO.. And in basically the Lebron era he did start that shit in Miami.. But now all these guys just buddy up, work out over the summer, and want to play together. Having 1 Superstar mate used to be enough, now these guys wants Big 3's all conspiring to play together.. For me it becomes hard to truly evaluate a legacy in these times. Someone like KD a great player, is struggling to get over the hump in OKC. 1 finals appearance, a few conference finals appearances but no chip.. Then he hooks up with a 73 win team, and wins 2 with 2 finals MVP's.. Does that make him top 10-15 all time like some claim? Not IMO.. Now Harden after putting up massive numbers in Houston, winning scoring titles, league MVP, with ZERO finals appearances, wants to try and win a few the easy way..

I love basketball, but this shit I just can't stand..

Which is why I love my Spurs. They did it the more solid way. Draft picks and grabbing a couple of veterans through trades. 5X NBA Champs!!!

[ambchang]

One thing that’s new in :lol today’s though, if the reports were true, is strong arming to trade for specific teammates like Irving was allegedly doing. Can’t think of a previous instance like that.


Oh wait, Kobe and kidd. But the way Kobe did it was because he’s a warrior. Irving’s just being a shrimp.

[Neo.]

One thing that’s new in :lol today’s though, if the reports were true, is strong arming to trade for specific teammates like Irving was allegedly doing. Can’t think of a previous instance like that.


Oh wait, Kobe and kidd. But the way Kobe did it was because he’s a warrior. Irving’s just being a shrimp.

actually its well documented mike tried to strong arm to get danny ainge and derek harper, among others

[lefty]

actually its well documented mike tried to strong arm to get danny ainge and derek harper, among others
Yep but ESPN doesn’t like to bring it uo

[ambchang]

actually its well documented mike tried to strong arm to get danny ainge and derek harper, among others

Honestly didn’t know that. Mike want someone to bite his finger?

[Spurtacular]

Yesterday's NBA is more fun to watch but make no mistake about it - Yesterday's NBA plumbers would've been skullf***ed by today's players. Skill beats overrated "physicality". Patrick Ewing would be Roy Hibbert in today's nba. 80's and 90's plumbers would be run out of the f***ing gym

Skill my ass. These niggas can't even pull up from midrange. Play man ball, and these limp wristers are in for a rude awakening.

[i'm_still_beta]

Skill my ass. These niggas can't even pull up from midrange. Play man ball, and these limp wristers are in for a rude awakening.

They can. Mid-range shots is just inneficient. Best midrange shooters score around 47-50% of their shots (it's 0,94-1 points per posession). Above average 3-point shooters score more than 36-37% of their shots (1,08-1,11 ppp) amd I'm not even talking about great shooters. 33% 3-point shooter is as eficient as 50% midrange-shooter.

[dbreiden83080]

having 1 superstar teammate was almost never enough, unless there was multiple other all-star level teammates

there have been anomalies here and there but through history it's pretty much always been 2-3 superstars, especially for teams that win multiple times

2 at times.. Not 3. Now you have league MVP's, and scoring champs in their primes conspiring to play on a 3 person Super Team.. Players used to leave at the end of their prime trying to load up... Now they do it young, because they punk out and take no blame for a lack of team success.. KD, Kyrie and Harden all really need to play on the same team to beat a 36 year old Lebron with AD? Wow.. Sad beyond belief.. And again I give Harden, KD, and Kyrie little to no credit if they win. All you did was out-talent the league.

I am sure if Ewing called up Reggie, and Chuck to load up he'd have won himself a ring or two..

[Neo.]

2 at times.. Not 3. Now you have league MVP's, and scoring champs in their primes conspiring to play on a 3 person Super Team.. Players used to leave at the end of their prime trying to load up... Now they do it young, because they punk out and take no blame for a lack of team success.. KD, Kyrie and Harden all really need to play on the same team to beat a 36 year old Lebron with AD? Wow.. Sad beyond belief.. And again I give Harden, KD, and Kyrie little to no credit if they win. All you did was out-talent the league.

I am sure if Ewing called up Reggie, and Chuck to load up he'd have won himself a ring or two..

bird/mchale/parish

magic/kareem/worthy

mike/pip/rodman

just to name some well known trios

[dbreiden83080]

Yesterday's NBA is more fun to watch but make no mistake about it - Yesterday's NBA plumbers would've been skullf***ed by today's players. Skill beats overrated "physicality". Patrick Ewing would be Roy Hibbert in today's nba. 80's and 90's plumbers would be run out of the f***ing gym

Uh the skill set is tad bit easier to display when you can't touch the offensive player.. The league changed the rules years ago to open the game up. Fans wanted offense. So they got it.. The rules allow for it.. Ewing in his prime was one of the great post shooting Centers of all time. And in an era of great physicality..

[dbreiden83080]

bird/mchale/parish

magic/kareem/worthy

mike/pip/rodman

just to name some well known trios

Circumstances put them together.. Now in todays game Bird would want to play with Magic.. And Pippen was always in need of a Batman.. Rodman could NOT throw the ball into the Ocean.. Harden is an MVP player in his prime that punked out.... I’m not saying this has never happened before, but this is getting ridiculously excessive. And it’s only going to get worse the more times that it works.

[ambchang]

Oscar Schmidt would have averaged 60ppg on 70% in :lol today’s nba.

[Neo.]

Circumstances put them together.. Now in todays game Bird would want to play with Magic.. And Pippen was always in need of a Batman.. Rodman could NOT throw the ball into the Ocean.. Harden is an MVP player in his prime that punked out.... I’m not saying this has never happened before, but this is getting ridiculously excessive. And it’s only going to get worse the more times that it works.

all I said was have been three-star teams for many years and are usually the teams that win multiple championships. it's extremely rare for a single star team to pull that off.

[Neo.]

Oscar Schmidt would have averaged 60ppg on 70% in :lol today’s nba.

lebron would have averaged 116ppg on 200% shooting in the 80s and 90s

[dbreiden83080]

all I said was have been three-star teams for many years and are usually the teams that win multiple championships. it's extremely rare for a single star team to pull that off.

Are you a fan of this? I’m just curious? Because it seems to me all these guys want to do in this day and age is top each other with building super teams. The whole idea of getting over the hump seems to be lost.

[lefty]

Uh the skill set is tad bit easier to display when you can't touch the offensive player.. The league changed the rules years ago to open the game up. Fans wanted offense. So they got it.. The rules allow for it.. Ewing in his prime was one of the great post shooting Centers of all time. And in an era of great physicality..

Well nobody could touch Mike so....


Defending without touching l/grabbing is actually more difficult, you have to have good anticipation, k ow how to read the offense - especially today with all the ball movement and pick and roll, have great footwork and mobility, be in tip top shape

Anybody can just touch and grab

[dbreiden83080]

Well nobody could touch Mike so....


Defending without touching l/grabbing is actually more difficult, you have to have good anticipation, k ow how to read the offense - especially today with all the ball movement and pick and roll, have great footwork and mobility, be in tip top shape

Anybody can just touch and grab

Teams are scoring 85+ points by halftime. Exactly how much defense is going on today’s game? The rules are set up that way. The ratings were tanking, the fans were complaining. So they change the rules. The game is what it is by design today. The rules were changed to open the game up. That is not conjecture on my part that is fact.

[lefty]

Nobody complained in the 80s when teams scored tons of points

Offense was down in the 90s because the league was sp diluted because of expansion so you had a lot of untalented scrubs in the league

The league today is much deeper from top to bottom, not to mention the influx of skilled international professionals players, so it’s logical to have more scoring

[dbreiden83080]

Nobody complained in the 80s when teams scored tons of points

Offense was down in the 90s because the league was sp diluted because of expansion so you had a lot of untalented scrubs in the league

The league today is much deeper from top to bottom, not to mention the influx of skilled international professionals players, so it’s logical to have more scoring

The 1990s was not the problem. That was a golden age. The Michael Jordan era of basketball made the league more money than any point in history. Still to this day and I don’t think it’s even close. Directly after that was the problem. Too much physicality, low-scoring game, just shitty for television ratings. So they opened everything up. It’s a hell of a lot easier for athletic ability to flourish when you can’t be physical with anybody. That’s just common sense.

[Dirks_Finale]

The 1990s was not the problem. That was a golden age. The Michael Jordan era of basketball made the league more money than any point in history. Still to this day and I don’t think it’s even close. Directly after that was the problem. Too much physicality, low-scoring game, just shitty for television ratings. So they opened everything up. It’s a hell of a lot easier for athletic ability to flourish when you can’t be physical with anybody. That’s just common sense.

Yup, it was diluted some thanks to expansion, there is no denying that. But it was cant miss basketball thanks to GOAT-MJ. It boasts the highest rated NBA finals EVER in 1998. Compare that to last season's ratings where I think like 5 people tuned in :lol

And in today's game I think Jud Buechler and Vinny Del Negro would look athletic, running around the 3 point line unchecked, averaging 20ppg

[dbreiden83080]

Yup, it was diluted some thanks to expansion, there is no denying that. But it was cant miss basketball thanks to GOAT-MJ. It boasts the highest rated NBA finals EVER in 1998. Compare that to last season's ratings where I think like 5 people tuned in :lol

And in today's game I think Jud Buechler and Vinny Del Negro would look athletic, running around the 3 point line unchecked, averaging 20ppg
It honestly makes me laugh how people troll talking about the skill level comparison. James Harden won the last few scoring titles in the league. I mean give me a fucking break. Michael Jordan in this league when you can’t touch him is putting up 40 points a game without breaking a sweat. Anyone who thinks otherwise is stupid or trolling their ass off. Hell he wouldn’t even need a great three-point shot. Just keep driving the ball and they will call fouls. He shot 83% from the line for his career. He will shoot 15-20 free throws a game. And in the second half of his career the turnaround jump shot was unstoppable. Nobody could do anything with that. And again nobody plays defense in the game today. So nobody’s doing anything with that now that’s for fucking sure.

[FrostKing]

Are you a fan of this? I’m just curious? Because it seems to me all these guys want to do in this day and age is top each other with building super teams. The whole idea of getting over the hump seems to be lost.
The players today are more like celebrities and it isn't just because of social media. So failure is far more difficult for them to handle. Chicken or egg; are younger generations naturally weaker/more thin skinned in the West or social media makes them this way.

The perplexing part is they are richer than ever. So you'd think that would soften the blow of losing but black community in America is so incredibly image based. And I think the US vs Them political atmosphere has made them more willing to partner up than battle head to head

[dbreiden83080]

The players today are more like celebrities and it isn't just because of social media. So failure is far more difficult for them to handle. Chicken or egg; are younger generations naturally weaker/more thin skinned in the West or social media makes them this way.

The perplexing part is they are richer than ever. So you'd think that would soften the blow of losing but black community in America is so incredibly image based. And I think the US vs Them political atmosphere has made them more willing to partner up than battle head to head

Well pretty much I think they are just a bunch of fucking pussies. For a true competitor failure is supposed to motivate you. Not make you quit and want to team up with overwhelming talent to overcome the opposition. So pussies in my opinion.

[Neo.]

Are you a fan of this? I’m just curious? Because it seems to me all these guys want to do in this day and age is top each other with building super teams. The whole idea of getting over the hump seems to be lost.

no I'm not a fan of it. but I understand it. unfortunately it's just not fair for a superstar to be blamed for either A) team ownership sucking at building good teams around them, or B) other teams getting giftwrapped ridiculous trades or draft picks that warp the competitive balance of the league (the KG/Ray trades, Gasol trade, the Lakers in the 80s already being a competitive playoff team and getting the #1 pick for magic and another #1 pick two championships later, a 55/62/59 win team tanking for duncan, among other things)

the heatles were formed because of two trades that completely messed up the balance of the league, leaving the Celtics and Lakers far and away the best two teams in the NBA

then after it looked like balance was somewhat restored, as there was quite a few very competitive and promising teams in Cleveland, GS, Houston, OKC, SA, Clippers, and Toronto, suddenly KDs move to GS messed everything up all over again.

since unfortunately the only way people want to give players andy kind of validation for their greatness is by championships (which is stupid since it's a team accomplishment), I completely understand why they would be willing to team up to increase their odds at winning, especially when teams get stacked in bogus ways

[FrostKing]

Well pretty much I think they are just a bunch of fucking pussies. For a true competitor failure is supposed to motivate you. Not make you quit and want to team up with overwhelming talent to overcome the opposition. So pussies in my opinion.
In their defense- unless you have a genius GM, you probably need to MJ your teammates and that won't fly in today's generation/media. Most these guys were babied growing up as athletic prospects. Most the greats of the earlier generations were humbled in College. Even the coaching has taken step down. Coach K of all people stopped molding Champions midway thru the 2010s and just recruits talent now. Granted that is age based as he nears the end but him of all people have the equity to do anything he pleases.

[Dirks_Finale]

It honestly makes me laugh how people troll talking about the skill level comparison. James Harden won the last few scoring titles in the league. I mean give me a fucking break. Michael Jordan in this league when you can’t touch him is putting up 40 points a game without breaking a sweat. Anyone who thinks otherwise is stupid or trolling their ass off. Hell he wouldn’t even need a great three-point shot. Just keep driving the ball and they will call fouls. He shot 83% from the line for his career. He will shoot 15-20 free throws a game. And in the second half of his career the turnaround jump shot was unstoppable. Nobody could do anything with that. And again nobody plays defense in the game today. So nobody’s doing anything with that now that’s for fucking sure.I think MJ works on his 3 point shot in this era and shoots it 35-36%. He, at the very least, develops a solid corner 3. Anyone who thinks a gym rat like Jordan wouldn't have adjusted, is, like you say, simply trolling.

And they also claim that MJ was overrated defensively but the advanced stats prove that's some BS. He had Defensive win shares of 5 or more 9 times in a 15 year career. Compare that to Lebron who has only did it 4 times in more seasons.(18). Durant has done it twice and Leonard has only done it once.

[Neo.]

Well pretty much I think they are just a bunch of fucking pussies. For a true competitor failure is supposed to motivate you. Not make you quit and want to team up with overwhelming talent to overcome the opposition. So pussies in my opinion.

well in your opinion you think mma and ufc is cool so there's that

[dbreiden83080]

no I'm not a fan of it. but I understand it. unfortunately it's just not fair for a superstar to be blamed for either A) team ownership sucking at building good teams around them, or B) other teams getting giftwrapped ridiculous trades or draft picks that warp the competitive balance of the league (the KG/Ray trades, Gasol trade, the Lakers in the 80s already being a competitive playoff team and getting the #1 pick for magic and another #1 pick two championships later, a 55/62/59 win team tanking for duncan, among other things)

the heatles were formed because of two trades that completely messed up the balance of the league, leaving the Celtics and Lakers far and away the best two teams in the NBA

then after it looked like balance was somewhat restored, as there was quite a few very competitive and promising teams in Cleveland, GS, Houston, OKC, SA, Clippers, and Toronto, suddenly KDs move to GS messed everything up all over again.

since unfortunately the only way people want to give players andy kind of validation for their greatness is by championships (which is stupid since it's a team accomplishment), I completely understand why they would be willing to team up to increase their odds at winning, especially when teams get stacked in bogus ways
But I don’t really see them getting that validation. Now we have James Harden. The prime of his career took place in Houston with the entire operation built around his talents. And he had great talent. Anyone he wanted from Howard, to Westbrook, Paul, they brought in for him. He didn’t get it done. So what he’s going to get a bunch of credit for winning a championship in Brooklyn with a stacked team? Who the hell would give that to him? Certainly not me. You had several years in Houston to prove to me that you are one of the greatest players of all time. You failed.

[dbreiden83080]

well in your opinion you think mma and ufc is cool so there's that

And what exactly is that? Please provide some context?

[Neo.]

I think MJ works on his 3 point shot in this era and shoots it 35-36%. He, at the very least, develops a solid corner 3. Anyone who thinks a gym rat like Jordan wouldn't have adjusted, is, like you say, simply trolling.

And they also claim that MJ was overrated defensively but the advanced stats prove that's some BS. He had Defensive win shares of 5 or more 9 times in a 15 year career. Compare that to Lebron who has only did it 4 times in more seasons.(18). Durant has done it twice and Leonard has only done it once.

so it's logical that MJ would somehow develop a better shot in this era, but somehow it's impossible that these supposedly "soft" players playing in a "tougher" league wouldnt result in them being tougher?

funny how you only allow your arguments to be applied when it benefits your personal, biased opinion.

[Neo.]

But I don’t really see them getting that validation. Now we have James Harden. The prime of his career took place in Houston with the entire operation built around his talents. And he had great talent. Anyone he wanted from Howard, to Westbrook, Paul, they brought in for him. He didn’t get it done. So what he’s going to get a bunch of credit for winning a championship in Brooklyn with a stacked team? Who the hell would give that to him? Certainly not me. You had several years in Houston to prove to me that you are one of the greatest players of all time. You failed.

I don't disagree. I'm just saying that's his perspective, and I get it.

[dbreiden83080]

so it's logical that MJ would somehow develop a better shot in this era, but somehow it's impossible that these supposedly "soft" players playing in a "tougher" league wouldnt result in them being tougher?

funny how you only allow your arguments to be applied when it benefits your personal, biased opinion.
Jordan does not need a three point shot in today’s game. Just drive the ball and they will call fouls over and over and over again. 83% from the line for his career. And the turn around jump shot. The mid range game. Nobody could stop it. You can’t touch him now. No physical defense whatsoever. He destroys the league. You know that.

[Dirks_Finale]

so it's logical that MJ would somehow develop a better shot in this era, but somehow it's impossible that these supposedly "soft" players playing in a "tougher" league wouldnt result in them being tougher?



Depends on who you are talking about. Some would, some wouldn't, imo.

[FrostKing]

so it's logical that MJ would somehow develop a better shot in this era, but somehow it's impossible that these supposedly "soft" players playing in a "tougher" league wouldnt result in them being tougher?

funny how you only allow your arguments to be applied when it benefits your personal, biased opinion.
MJ would likely be weaker today too. A victim of today's society. Money did this to the sport. Common story.

[Neo.]

Jordan does not need a three point shot in today’s game. Just drive the ball and they will call fouls over and over and over again. 83% from the line for his career. And the turn around jump shot. The mid range game. Nobody could stop it. You can’t touch him now. No physical defense whatsoever. He destroys the league. You know that.

I didn't say he needs one. I'm just addressing how biased and flawed the other poster is, especially based on previous posts hes made.

but it's also been very well addressed that defenses are more physical today than people want to admit, less physical in the past than people want to admit, and that defensive strategies are far more advanced than ever after illegal defense rules were done away with. do some research instead of just saying cliche crap.

[Dirks_Finale]

Jordan does not need a three point shot in today’s game. Just drive the ball and they will call fouls over and over and over again. 83% from the line for his career. And the turn around jump shot. The mid range game. Nobody could stop it. You can’t touch him now. No physical defense whatsoever. He destroys the league. You know that.

I think he would need to, though.

The 2 point shot is only as valuable as a 3 if you shoot it at a 60% clip in today's wacked out game.

But yeah, the free throws help his cause and he would live at the line today. These guys today fall for every damn pump fake no matter how weak it is. Jordan had huge hands and could get you off your feet without even moving one foot.. One hand ball fake.

[dbreiden83080]

I didn't say he needs one. I'm just addressing how biased and flawed the other poster is, especially based on previous posts hes made.

but it's also been very well addressed that defenses are more physical today than people want to admit, less physical in the past than people want to admit, and that defensive strategies are far more advanced than ever after illegal defense rules were done away with. do some research instead of just saying cliche crap.

Teams are scoring 70 to 75 points by halftime. So whatever defensive strategies they’re implementing it isn’t fucking working. The rule changes were meant to open up the game. You know this. It was all about increasing the ratings and getting more fans in the building. It worked. It’s no different than the current NFL landscape of quarterbacks. Once upon a time when a quarterback threw for 4000 yards it was a landmark season. Now if you throw for less than that you suck and are benched or traded. The rules changed.. It’s all about all offense..

[Neo.]

Depends on who you are talking about. Some would, some wouldn't, imo.

haha well with that logic then Mike wouldn't develop a 3pt shot considering he was a psychopath obsessed at being the absolute best at anything and everything, developed many other aspects of his basketball game and yet never developed a good 3pt shot (except when stern shortened the line for him for a couple years to help him adjust back to the game after his gambling suspension :lmao :lmao)

just like the millions he's paid to be a better golfer and yet he still sucks at golf. no guarantee he'd be much better of a shooter, especially when he wouldn't be guarded by unathletic midgets every night.

[Neo.]

MJ would likely be weaker today too. A victim of today's society. Money did this to the sport. Common story.

fair enough tbh

[Dirks_Finale]

Teams are scoring 70 to 75 points by halftime. So whatever defensive strategies they’re implementing it isn’t fucking working. The rule changes were meant to open up the game. You know this. It was all about increasing the ratings and getting more fans in the building. It worked. It’s no different than the current NFL landscape of quarterbacks. Once upon a time when a quarterback threw for 4000 yards it was a landmark season. Now if you throw for less than that you suck and are benched or traded. The rules changed.. It’s all about all offense..

The naysayers are going to tell you it's because the athletes are far superior with advances in sports training/nutrition , etc. But if they ever change rules to what they were in the previous era,then we will see a far different game in both sports than we do today.

[Neo.]

Teams are scoring 70 to 75 points by halftime. So whatever defensive strategies they’re implementing it isn’t fucking working. The rule changes were meant to open up the game. You know this. It was all about increasing the ratings and getting more fans in the building. It worked. It’s no different than the current NFL landscape of quarterbacks. Once upon a time when a quarterback threw for 4000 yards it was a landmark season. Now if you throw for less than that you suck and are benched or traded. The rules changed.. It’s all about all offense..

all your post has been addressed dozens of times on these forums. again, do your research. league scoring is about what it's been for most of its existence, except for a stretch from around the mid 90s to the mid 00s where talent was rather low, and offenses were slow as molasses

no one was complaining about it during the 70s and 80s

[Neo.]

The naysayers are going to tell you it's because the athletes are far superior with advances in sports training/nutrition , etc. But if they ever change rules to what they were in the previous era,
then we will see a far different game in both sports than we do today.

explain the same rules existing in the 70s and 80s yet there was the same amount of scoring as in recent years

or the fact that even after the "rule changes" happened, that scoring in the league was for years still among the lowest in history

[dbreiden83080]

The naysayers are going to tell you it's because the athletes are far superior with advances in sports training/nutrition , etc. But if they ever change rules to what they were in the previous era,
then we will see a far different game in both sports than we do today.

And I will say the same thing to that that I have said before. It is far easier for an athlete to flourish with his skill set when physically you are not allowed to really touch him. The idea that Michael Jordan will not dominate the shit out of this league? I think nobody watched this man play in his prime. This guy was dunking from the fucking free-throw line. That’s the level of athlete he was.

[dbreiden83080]

all your post has been addressed dozens of times on these forums. again, do your research. league scoring is about what it's been for most of its existence, except for a stretch from around the mid 90s to the mid 00s where talent was rather low, and offenses were slow as molasses

no one was complaining about it during the 70s and 80s

All of your posts have been addressed as well. You are dug in on your point, and I am dug in on mine. The bottom line is they change the rules for a reason. If the league thought the talent level just sucked and it would change over the course of time there would be no need to change the rules. They changed them. Same thing with the NFL. I already explained that to you. It’s been changed forever. As have the stats have been changed forever. So we have to reevaluate everything.

[Neo.]

And I will say the same thing to that that I have said before. It is far easier for an athlete to flourish with his skill set when physically you are not allowed to really touch him. The idea that Michael Jordan will not dominate the shit out of this league? I think nobody watched this man play in his prime. This guy was dunking from the fucking free-throw line. That’s the level of athlete he was.

in game? or in dunk contests? because nearly every dunk contest participant these days can do that :lol even Brent barry could do it :lmao :lmao

[Neo.]

All of your posts have been addressed as well. You are dug in on your point, and I am dug in on mine. The bottom line is they change the rules for a reason. If the league thought the talent level just sucked and it would change over the course of time there would be no need to change the rules. They changed them. Same thing with the NFL. I already explained that to you. It’s been changed forever. As have the stats have been changed forever. So we have to reevaluate everything.

do your research on the rule changes then :lmao because you clearly havent

and you didn't address how the "rules" allowed scoring from the 60s-early 90s to be around the same level as the current era, while for nearly a decade after the "rules changed" scoring remained remarkably low

[dbreiden83080]

well in your opinion you think mma and ufc is cool so there's that

By the way I am still waiting for you to address this? Give me some context please? I’m waiting for it.

[Neo.]

By the way I am still waiting for you to address this? Give me some context please? I’m waiting for it.

lol mma

[dbreiden83080]

in game? or in dunk contests? because nearly every dunk contest participant these days can do that :lol even Brent barry could do it :lmao :lmao

James harden can barely jump 2 inches off the ground and he’s averaging 35 points a game. My god you’re just trolling your ass off. How do you think James would do against Michael Jordan in a seven game series with equal talent on both teams? Serious question? What do you think Michael Jordan would do to him defensively?

[dbreiden83080]

lol mma

Oh I get it you’re retarded. Thank you for clearing that up.

[Neo.]

James harden can barely jump 2 inches off the ground and he’s averaging 35 points a game. My god you’re just trolling your ass off. How do you think James would do against Michael Jordan in a seven game series with equal talent on both teams? Serious question? What do you think Michael Jordan would do to him defensively?

:lol two inches ok and I'm the troll?

I'm not even comparing harden to Mike. never did, never will. the two are incomparable. not sure why you're getting so butthurt over things I never even said or think.

calm down, let your mma rage subside a bit maybe

[dbreiden83080]

:lol two inches ok and I'm the troll?

I'm not even comparing harden to Mike. never did, never will. the two are incomparable. not sure why you're getting so butthurt over things I never even said or think.

calm down, let your mma rage subside a bit maybe
Lol Is the response right? Good job buddy. You really had a strong argument on that one. Jesus Christ.

[Neo.]

Lol Is the response right? Good job buddy. You really had a strong argument on that one. Jesus Christ.

so your idea of a "strong argument" is to argue a point I never even claimed or believe in the least bit? :lol

cool story bro :tu

[dbreiden83080]

so your idea of a "strong argument" is to argue a point I never even claimed or believe in the least bit? :lol

cool story bro :tu

You brought up something that has zero to do with basketball, all on your own. I asked you to provide some context and your response was to go LOL. I’m responding to your non-argument. I’m still waiting for you to tell me something. Anything on that subject?

[Neo.]

You brought up something that has zero to do with basketball, all on your own. I asked you to provide some context and your response was to go LOL. I’m responding to your non-argument. I’m still waiting for you to tell me something. Anything on that subject?

you actually didn't respond to it when you brought up the harden and Mike comparisons that I never made. nice try though :td

[i'm_still_beta]

haha well with that logic then Mike wouldn't develop a 3pt shot considering he was a psychopath obsessed at being the absolute best at anything and everything, developed many other aspects of his basketball game and yet never developed a good 3pt shot (except when stern shortened the line for him for a couple years to help him adjust back to the game after his gambling suspension :lmao :lmao)

just like the millions he's paid to be a better golfer and yet he still sucks at golf. no guarantee he'd be much better of a shooter, especially when he wouldn't be guarded by unathletic midgets every night.



in game? or in dunk contests? because nearly every dunk contest participant these days can do that :lol even Brent barry could do it:lmao:lmao

[lefty]

Jordan does not need a three point shot in today’s game. Just drive the ball and they will call fouls over and over and over again. 83% from the line for his career. And the turn around jump shot. The mid range game. Nobody could stop it. You can’t touch him now. No physical defense whatsoever. He destroys the league. You know that.

lol thinking MJ would easily get to the basket today :lol

- Zone defense
- Better mote athletic guard, not shits like Starks or Ejlo

90s défense was terrible tbh

[lefty]

What do you think Michael Jordan would do to him defensively?
Nothing since Pippen would be the one guarding Harden

[dbreiden83080]

you actually didn't respond to it when you brought up the harden and Mike comparisons that I never made. nice try though :td
Last I checked those men all play or played professional basketball. Pretty sure that’s correct. None of them are professional fighters in a cage. But I could be wrong. I know you are.

[dbreiden83080]

lol thinking MJ would easily get to the basket today :lol

- Zone defense
- Better mote athletic guard, not shits like Starks or Ejlo

90s défense was terrible tbh

James Harden is a horrendous defender in any era of basketball. From 1970-2020. Name it he sucks at defense. Mostly because he doesn’t try. He saves it all for the other end. Gifs galore on the Internet of him waving his opponents to the basket as they blow right by him. I still find it funny that for all of these amazing things they do defensively in terms of strategy, teams are easily scoring 120+ points per game. Very interesting.

[i'm_still_beta]

James Harden is a horrendous defender in any era of basketball. From 1970-2020. Name it he sucks at defense. Mostly because he doesn’t try. He saves it all for the other end. Gifs galore on the Internet of him waving his opponents to the basket as they blow right by him. I still find it funny that for all of these amazing things they do defensively in terms of strategy, teams are easily scoring 120+ points per game. Very interesting.

1. Harden great post defender. Can held his own vs power forward in high post brilliantly

2. Has something to do with shooting from 3 on high percentages and high pace of cource. Also more skilled guards in the league right now who can break down defenses with driving instead of plumbers like Craig Ehlo

[dbreiden83080]

1. Harden great post defender. Can held his own vs power forward in high post brilliantly

2. Has something to do with shooting from 3 on high percentages and high pace of cource. Also more skilled guards in the league right now who can break down defenses with driving instead of plumbers like Craig Ehlo
If he put some effort into it there are areas that he could be effective, but he rarely does. He wants to save his energy for the other side of the court. A very common theme unfortunately in today’s game. Even Kawhi Leonard who was once a dominant two-way player is no longer a great defensive player. He’s focusing on the offense by his own admission.

Harden is a horrendous perimeter defender. The Rockets were constantly hiding him on defense even when he was younger. He had an inability to track his man on cuts, particularly when forced to work around screens. And because he likes to gamble on Steals he routinely gives up drives to the basket. Gifs galore on that one all over the Internet. Not guarding a elite offensive player, Just blowing straight by him.

[ambchang]

lebron would have averaged 116ppg on 200% shooting in the 80s and 90s

He was an egg.

[Neo.]

Last I checked those men all play or played professional basketball. Pretty sure that’s correct. None of them are professional fighters in a cage. But I could be wrong. I know you are.

cool story bro :td

[lebomb]

I can matador defense and camp out at the 3pt line all day too.

Todays NBA :toast

[Millennial_Messiah]

2020* ®

[i'm_still_beta]

I can matador defense and camp out at the 3pt line all day too.

Todays NBA :toast

So why you don't? You don't need 30 millions per year? You either rich or ascetic

[lebomb]

So why you don't? You don't need 30 millions per year? You either rich or ascetic

It wasnt the NBA, but in a city league game against another team of scrubs I was 6/6 from the 3pt line. I just camped out at the 3 and waited for a wide open J. I took it. :hat :claw

[i'm_still_beta]

It wasnt the NBA, but in a city league game against another team of scrubs I was 6/6 from the 3pt line. I just camped out at the 3 and waited for a wide open J. I took it. :hat :claw
:clap You're good shooter

[Dirks_Finale]

It wasnt the NBA, but in a city league game against another team of scrubs I was 6/6 from the 3pt line. I just camped out at the 3 and waited for a wide open J. I took it. :hat :claw

I think you are ready made for today's NBA, tbh. Bryn Forbes played zero defense and somehow got a deal.

[Neo.]

I think you are ready made for today's NBA, tbh.

sadly, you probably arent even trolling

[Dirks_Finale]

sadly, you probably arent even trolling

5 year, 100 million dollar deal for lebomb,

[lebomb]

5 year, 100 million dollar deal for lebomb,

Depends on who I’m offered by. I ain’t playing for anyone. I’m going straight Harden on this.

[lefty]

It wasnt the NBA, but in a city league game against another team of scrubs I was 6/6 from the 3pt line. I just camped out at the 3 and waited for a wide open J. I took it. :hat :claw

Stat padding vs a team of scrubs
Sounds like Jordan vs his shitty competition but at least you didn’t need referee help to beat th’sr wcrubs like Jordan did :lol

Yesterday’s NBA :lol

[lebomb]

Stat padding vs a team of scrubs
Sounds like Jordan vs his shitty competition but at least you didn’t need referee help to beat th’sr wcrubs like Jordan did :lol

Yesterday’s NBA :lol

Actually we lost the ship to a group of white guys that never shot a 3. They shared the ball, got great open 2pt shots and played great defense. These dudes also beat a young team of niggras that were dunking the ball and firing up uncontested 3’s. Real NBA > Today’s NBA

[lebomb]

Oh no........no, no, no!! We aint lettin disheeer thread die. Not until I get 90% of yall to agree the REAL NBA would dominate this soft ass, no defense, cant hit a 2pt jumper, 6'-8" PG, 6'-8" SG, 6'-8" SF, 6'-8" PF, and 6'-8" center (all deez niggras weigh 175lbs) havin Todays NBA.

[Dirks_Finale]

Oh no........no, no, no!! We aint lettin disheeer thread die. Not until I get 90% of yall to agree the REAL NBA would dominate this soft ass, no defense, cant hit a 2pt jumper, 6'-8" PG, 6'-8" SG, 6'-8" SF, 6'-8" PF, and 6'-8" center (all deez niggras weigh 175lbs) havin Todays NBA.

One thing that always get's lost in the shuffle here on this particular topic is the fact that basketball is a rhythm sport. You break team's/player's rhythm by being physical with them. Something you can not do today, hence the explosive stat lines.

Then again, I recall many people bitching in the 90's that the game was too rough and messy. I guess it's just a matter of preference. I'll take the Spurs/Pistons 2005 NBA finals over the Warriors/Cavs of the late 10's any day. Much less points overall means each point is more meaningful.

[lebomb]

One thing that always get's lost in the shuffle here on this particular topic is the fact that basketball is a rhythm sport. You break team's/player's rhythm by being physical with them. Something you can not do today, hence the explosive stat lines.

Then again, I recall many people bitching in the 90's that the game was too rough and messy. I guess it's just a matter of preference. I'll take the Spurs/Pistons 2005 NBA finals over the Warriors/Cavs of the late 10's any day. Much less points overall means each point is more meaningful.

Agreed 100%

[ambchang]

Skilled players will just let breaking their rhythm to their advantage. Anybody who ever played the game will tell you it’s actually easier to get into a scoring rhythm by being roughed up.

[lefty]

Skilled players will just let breaking their rhythm to their advantage. Anybody who ever played the game will tell you it’s actually easier to get into a scoring rhythm by being roughed up.
ISO era also made it easier for scorers
KD, Kobe, heck even that chucker Melo would have dominated in that era

[Neo.]

isnt it just common knowledge that 6'2 165 lb unathletic players with maybe 10-12 years of organized playing experience can completely lock up 6'8 250 lb world class athletes who have played organized ball since they were 5 by simply getting physical and roughing them up?

[Dirks_Finale]

Skilled players will just let breaking their rhythm to their advantage. Anybody who ever played the game will tell you it’s actually easier to get into a scoring rhythm by being roughed up.

I'll just provide one example of many. How did that work out for the Spurs in 04? Up 2-0 on LA. Parker is running wild on them. Then insert Shaq in GM3 knocking him on his ass and before you know it, the whole complexion of the series has changed and they get back door swept.

So yeah, it's easier only for the most mentally tough players to get back into rhythm after being roughed up.

[Dirks_Finale]

ISO era also made it easier for scorers
KD, Kobe, heck even that chucker Melo would have dominated in that era

Melo is an empty calorie stat player in any era.

[Neo.]

Melo is an empty calorie stat player in any era.

were there empty calorie stat players in the 80s and 90s?

[lefty]

were there empty calorie stat players in the 80s and 90s?

Michael Jordan without Phil and Scottie
Wilkins
Dantley
English

[lebomb]

Wilkins is very close to how Todays NBA players are. 6'-8" long, athletic wing. He would fit in and do very well in Todays NBA.

[ambchang]

ISO era also made it easier for scorers
KD, Kobe, heck even that chucker Melo would have dominated in that era

They dominated in this era. A geriatric melo is still in the league. :lol

I’m sure Kobe, even now, could score four points a game in :lol today’s nba if he decided to come back.

Hell, KD with no Achilles is still an mvp candidate.

[ambchang]

isnt it just common knowledge that 6'2 165 lb unathletic players with maybe 10-12 years of organized playing experience can completely lock up 6'8 250 lb world class athletes who have played organized ball since they were 5 by simply getting physical and roughing them up?

You mean like Jason Terry did to Lebron? Or was it the other way around?

[ambchang]

Michael Jordan without Phil and Scottie
Wilkins
Dantley
English

You leave dantley out of this.

[Neo.]

You mean like Jason Terry did to Lebron? Or was it the other way around?

jason terry primarily guarded lebron? he locked him up?

[Neo.]

Michael Jordan without Phil and Scottie
Wilkins
Dantley
English
rofl among plenty of others

"but but but only today's nba stuffs empty stats!!!:cry"

[ambchang]

jason terry primarily guarded lebron? he locked him up?

Yeah. True. Terry only lit him up.

[ambchang]

rofl among plenty of others

"but but but only today's nba stuffs empty stats!!!:cry"

Someone said that in this thread?

[Rummpd]

rofl among plenty of others

"but but but only today's nba stuffs empty stats!!!:cry"

Hey I referee youth basketball these days with the great and nicest person in Adrian Dantley and the guy could have thrived any era.

[Neo.]

Yeah. True. Terry only lit him up.

was lebron the primary defender of terry throughout the series?


Someone said that in this thread?

did I say someone said that in this thread?


Hey I referee youth basketball these days with the great and nicest person in Adrian Dantley and the guy could have thrived any era.

I liked dantley too. but he was a stat stuffer. and could stat stuff in any era.

[ambchang]

was lebron the primary defender of terry throughout the series?



did I say someone said that in this thread?



I liked dantley too. but he was a stat stuffer. and could stat stuff in any era.

Continuing your crusade about not being able to read.

[Dirks_Finale]

were there empty calorie stat players in the 80s and 90s?

Of course.

[Neo.]

Continuing my crusade of making things up

fixed.



Of course.

ok good to know :tu

[ambchang]

fixed.




ok good to know :tu

I wanted to say something to you but then you can’t read so what’s the point?

[Neo.]

I wanted to say something to you but then you can’t read so what’s the point?

ok :tu

[midnightpulp]

:lol I step away for a couple of months and see lefty reversing course on ":lol today's NBA?" Must be counter-trolling.

Now it seems like this discussion is talking about relative player skill levels. Are today's players more skilled and athletic in general than yesterday's? Sure. But who cares? Unless you have an attention span that can only tolerate TikTok videos, basketball is a much shittier sport than it's been since the pre-shot clock era, when players would pass the ball around for like twenty minutes looking for a perfect shot.

[lefty]

:lol I step away for a couple of months and see lefty reversing course on ":lol today's NBA?" Must be counter-trolling.

Now it seems like this discussion is talking about relative player skill levels. Are today's players more skilled and athletic in general than yesterday's? Sure. But who cares? Unless you have an attention span that can only tolerate TikTok videos, basketball is a much shittier sport than it's been since the pre-shot clock era, when players would pass the ball around for like twenty minutes looking for a perfect shot.

So you’re telling me you prefer yesterday’s NBA where they would isolate the superstar and have his 4 teammates standing there like traffic cones?

[Neo.]

tbh regardless of era, championship teams are always the same. its the mid and low tier teams who have mostly changed. but the very top teams generally always have balanced attacks (in terms of paint and perimeter scoring), physical defense, and good fundamentals on ball movement, spacing, rebounding, and help defense.

there have always been popular gimmicks, such as SSOL, sheer mass, sheer speed, grind to a halt, PnR spam, superstar spam, moreyball, etc... but teams that solely base their team around one of those never win championships

every era has its style. 80-to-early-90s was lots of points and no defense. mid-90s was slow it down and beat people up who were too good for you to guard. most of 00's was grinding out possessions. early-to-mid-10's was all about spacing. and now its fast-paced and quick 3s to bury your opponent quickly, or to make improbable comebacks. and i'm sure its going to change pretty soon again. each style has its fun points, and boring points. its just a matter of personal preference, not that any of them were necessarily a superior style. it was just different styles that came as a result of adjusting to the different types of talent that was coming into the league. if suddenly low post offense becomes the popular thing again, and we have 4-5 shaq-like players dominating the league and winning all the championships, then the style will have to change once again.

[midnightpulp]

So you’re telling me you prefer yesterday’s NBA where they would isolate the superstar and have his 4 teammates standing there like traffic cones?

They still do that, left. That's what the HORNS set is. A player like Harden or Curry brings the ball up, dribbles at the top of the key, bigman flashes to pick. If the three is there, the shooter takes it. If not, he drives in for a non-contested layup, due to all the space generated because defenders have to stick to shooters like white on rice. If the layup is contested, he kicks it out to a "traffic cone" spot up shooter. Rinse-repeat for two-and-a-half hours.

At least 90s isoball was physical and lower scoring, meaning points meant more. And the midrange game was still valued. Today's NBA has rendered 90% of the court useless.

Then you also have spastic offenses that just fastbreak and chuck.

You know I'm right. You don't have to countertroll to kick it. :lol

[lefty]

They still do that, left. That's what the HORNS set is. A player like Harden or Curry brings the ball up, dribbles at the top of the key, bigman flashes to pick. If the three is there, the shooter takes it. If not, he drives in for a non-contested layup, due to all the space generated because defenders have to stick to shooters like white on rice. If the layup is contested, he kicks it out to a "traffic cone" spot up shooter. Rinse-repeat for two-and-a-half hours.

At least 90s isoball was physical and lower scoring, meaning points meant more. And the midrange game was still valued. Today's NBA has rendered 90% of the court useless.

Then you also have spastic offenses that just fastbreak and chuck.

You know I'm right. You don't have to countertroll to kick it. :lol

Iso ball wasn’t just involving guards back in the days, it also involved dominant bigs, feed Hakeem, Chuck, Shaq etc down low and stand there so it was more common vs today

And lol at the notion it was more physical, another myth that needs to die :lol

[Dirks_Finale]

Iso ball wasn’t just involving guards back in the days, it also involved dominant bigs, feed Hakeem, Chuck, Shaq etc down low and stand there so it was more common vs today

And lol at the notion it was more physical, another myth that needs to die :lol

It was more physical.

[FrostKing]

:lol I step away for a couple of months and see lefty reversing course on ":lol today's NBA?" Must be counter-trolling.

Now it seems like this discussion is talking about relative player skill levels. Are today's players more skilled and athletic in general than yesterday's? Sure. But who cares? Unless you have an attention span that can only tolerate TikTok videos, basketball is a much shittier sport than it's been since the pre-shot clock era, when players would pass the ball around for like twenty minutes looking for a perfect shot.
:lol today's Lefty

Welcome back

[lebomb]

tbh regardless of era, championship teams are always the same. its the mid and low tier teams who have mostly changed. but the very top teams generally always have balanced attacks (in terms of paint and perimeter scoring), physical defense, and good fundamentals on ball movement, spacing, rebounding, and help defense.

there have always been popular gimmicks, such as SSOL, sheer mass, sheer speed, grind to a halt, PnR spam, superstar spam, moreyball, etc... but teams that solely base their team around one of those never win championships

every era has its style. 80-to-early-90s was lots of points and no defense. mid-90s was slow it down and beat people up who were too good for you to guard. most of 00's was grinding out possessions. early-to-mid-10's was all about spacing. and now its fast-paced and quick 3s to bury your opponent quickly, or to make improbable comebacks. and i'm sure its going to change pretty soon again. each style has its fun points, and boring points. its just a matter of personal preference, not that any of them were necessarily a superior style. it was just different styles that came as a result of adjusting to the different types of talent that was coming into the league. if suddenly low post offense becomes the popular thing again, and we have 4-5 shaq-like players dominating the league and winning all the championships, then the style will have to change once again.

This is exactly what I believe will happen.

[lebomb]

Oh yeah, today NBA...........shoot a 3 is the first option, 2nd option is a drive floater if the 3 is not open. Thats it in a nutshell. No other offense to really speak about. Ive seen players have a 3 on 1 break and the PG or SG pulls up a 3 with noone under to rebound. Garbage.

Real NBA>Todays ChuckBA

[lefty]

It was more physical.

yes according to highlight compllation videos, but the game was actually soft

[lefty]

Oh yeah, today NBA...........shoot a 3 is the first option, 2nd option is a drive floater if the 3 is not open. Thats it in a nutshell. No other offense to really speak about. Ive seen players have a 3 on 1 break and the PG or SG pulls up a 3 with noone under to rebound. Garbage.

Real NBA>Todays ChuckBA

90s NBA, ISO or pnr
No other offense

[lebomb]

A nigga used to get benched back in tha day for some of the chukin players do now. Fast break 3pt shots. :lol

[140]

Keep doing the lord's work OP :toast

[lefty]

A nigga used to get benched back in tha day for some of the chukin players do now. Fast break 3pt shots. :lol
Because those niggas couldnT shoot and coaching was antiquated :lol

[Neo.]

A nigga used to get benched back in tha day for some of the chukin players do now. Fast break 3pt shots. :lol

lol revisionist history

guys who actually could hit them consistently were quite glorified. see reggie miller, john stockton and larry bird. lmao reggie was literally average at best at every other aspect of basketball, but was glorified as a HOF transcendent superstar simply because he was such a deadly shooter for his time :lol

[lefty]

lol revisionist history

guys who actually could hit them consistently were quite glorified. see reggie miller, john stockton and larry bird. lmao reggie was literally average at best at every other aspect of basketball, but was glorified as a HOF transcendent superstar simply because he was such a deadly shooter for his time :lol
"wow you can actually shoot unlike most of those plumbers, here your ticket to the HOF son"

Klay Thompson would have averaged 50 ppg in that shit era tbh :lol

[lebomb]

"wow you can actually shoot unlike most of those plumbers, here your ticket to the HOF son"

Klay Thompson would have averaged 50 ppg in that shit era tbh :lol

Maybe, but the real NBA players could hit 2pt shots from all over the court. Todays NBA playuhs can only hit 3's and layups. They cant transition to various shots all over the court because they dont practice any shots besides 3's.

[lefty]

Maybe, but the real NBA players could hit 2pt shots from all over the court. Todays NBA playuhs can only hit 3's and layups. They cant transition to various shots all over the court because they dont practice any shots besides 3's.
Most of today's players hit the 3s more than the 2 because it's better, they don't have to hit the 2
However, guys like Kawhi, DDR, McCollum, LMA, Murray have a great mid range game; Jokic can hit the 2 and the 3

In the 90s , why would you ask Shaq to hit a jump shot if he could score 30 pts easily near the basket?

[Neo.]

Maybe, but the real NBA players could hit 2pt shots from all over the court.

lol what? there are plenty of deadly midrange shooters and scorers. the main differences are 1) people dont shoot them as frequently, even though they shoot them just as well, and 2) there is no michael jordan or larry bird who mastered the art of midrange beyond anything ever seen.

[lebomb]

lol what? there are plenty of deadly midrange shooters and scorers. the main differences are 1) people dont shoot them as frequently, even though they shoot them just as well, and 2) there is no michael jordan or larry bird who mastered the art of midrange beyond anything ever seen.

Debatable.........When I look at the Todays NBA, I never see anyone shoot a midrange besides Derozen. If all you are really practicing or shooting is the 3, how could you be deadly from 2? Maybe a floater or layup/slam.

Also, noone plays D anymore either. Its all matadore defense, tha shit is comical to watch. In Todays NBA, whisk a nigga on his arm and its a flagrant one with a 2 game suspension.

[lefty]

60s NBA is better than 90s NBA

60s NBA was more physical, and players knew to properly dribble back then - no palming, carrying, traveling

They could shoot from mid range back then , no 3 point bullshit

90s NBA = soft 3 pt faggoty era with gay ass flat top haircuts and players appearing in MTV promos

60s NBA = REAL MEN!!!!!!!!

[Neo.]

Debatable.........When I look at the Todays NBA, I never see anyone shoot a midrange besides Derozen.

kawhi, luka, tatum, murray, jokic, ingram, pg, are just a few that come to mind that have excellent mid-range games.


If all you are really practicing or shooting is the 3, how could you be deadly from 2? Maybe a floater or layup/slam.

:lmao :lmao :lmao


Also, noone plays D anymore either. Its all matadore defense, tha shit is comical to watch. In Todays NBA, whisk a nigga on his arm and its a flagrant one with a 2 game suspension.

regular season, i agree. bc no one except young stars trying to make a name for themselves cares about the regular season. experienced vets know how to play just hard enough to win games, and then turn it up a few notches in the playoffs. playoff basketball has very intense defense and far more physical play than regular season.

[Leetonidas]

Out of curiosity, were there any actual "plumbers" playing in the NBA in the 90s? :lol I see that joke all the time, curious if there were any players who actually went to unclog toilets before suiting up

[lefty]

Out of curiosity, were there any actual "plumbers" playing in the NBA in the 90s? :lol I see that joke all the time, curious if there were any players who actually went to unclog toilets before suiting up

Probably, I mean look at guys like Ehlo or Brent Price :lol

But jokes aside, Mark Eaton was an actual car mechanic :lol

And John Starks was an actual grocery bagger :lol

You don’t see a car mechanic or a grocery bagger in today’s NBA

[Leetonidas]

Probably, I mean look at guys like Ehlo or Brent Price :lol

But jokes aside, Mark Eaton was an actual car mechanic :lol

And John Starks was an actual grocery bagger :lol

You don’t see a car mechanic or a grocery bagger in today’s NBA

Starks bagged groceries before he went to college, it's not like he hung his jersey up and clocked in at Safeway after the game :lol


Jonathon Simmons was working a regular 9 to 5 before he paid for that try out and made the NBA, i don't hear anyone saying mentioning that steph curry was playing against 9-5 average joes in the playoffs tbh...

[lefty]

Hey I like Starks tbh, he was pure heart

I feel bad for his game 7 vs Houston tbh, after his great games 4 and 5 and especially his amazing game 6 performance

[Rummpd]

tbh regardless of era, championship teams are always the same. its the mid and low tier teams who have mostly changed. but the very top teams generally always have balanced attacks (in terms of paint and perimeter scoring), physical defense, and good fundamentals on ball movement, spacing, rebounding, and help defense.

there have always been popular gimmicks, such as SSOL, sheer mass, sheer speed, grind to a halt, PnR spam, superstar spam, moreyball, etc... but teams that solely base their team around one of those never win championships

every era has its style. 80-to-early-90s was lots of points and no defense. mid-90s was slow it down and beat people up who were too good for you to guard. most of 00's was grinding out possessions. early-to-mid-10's was all about spacing. and now its fast-paced and quick 3s to bury your opponent quickly, or to make improbable comebacks. and i'm sure its going to change pretty soon again. each style has its fun points, and boring points. its just a matter of personal preference, not that any of them were necessarily a superior style. it was just different styles that came as a result of adjusting to the different types of talent that was coming into the league. if suddenly low post offense becomes the popular thing again, and we have 4-5 shaq-like players dominating the league and winning all the championships, then the style will have to change once again.

Lot of truth here

[ambchang]

Probably, I mean look at guys like Ehlo or Brent Price :lol

But jokes aside, Mark Eaton was an actual car mechanic :lol

And John Starks was an actual grocery bagger :lol

You don’t see a car mechanic or a grocery bagger in today’s NBA

Larry bird was a garbage man.

[lefty]

Larry bird was a garbage man.

A garbage man who kicked Jordan’s salty ass

[ambchang]

A garbage man who kicked Jordan’s salty ass

So Jordan can beat grocery baggers, car mechanics and accountants but not garbage men?

[lefty]

So Jordan can beat grocery baggers, car mechanics and accountants but not garbage men?
there were exceptions to the norm

He looks bad either way :lol

[FrostKing]

You don’t see a car mechanic or a grocery bagger in today’s NBA
Maybe we should. Increase intelligence, work ethic and toughness

[lebomb]

kawhi, luka, tatum, murray, jokic, ingram, pg, are just a few that come to mind that have excellent mid-range games.



:lmao :lmao :lmao






An example of what I see coming up today with regards to College/future NBA players, so don't freak out.

My son plays AAU ball. During warmups all every single team does is do layup drills and 3pt drills. You know what I see during every single damn game? Teams shooting all 3pt shots, making about 27% of them and layups. No one ever, and I mean ever shoots a mid range shot. When they do? Its usually a brick. All they do is practice shooting 3's and taking 3's in a game. The game has become one dimensional big time. Just callin out what I see.

Real Bball > Todays ChuckBA

[lefty]

Maybe we should. Increase intelligence, work ethic and toughness

MJ was so tough je couldn’t beat the Pistons
, cried to Stern who obliged and changed the rules for him, and Jordan started winning when the league became soft
Such a tough guy

[Neo.]

An example of what I see coming up today with regards to College/future NBA players, so don't freak out.

My son plays AAU ball. During warmups all every single team does is do layup drills and 3pt drills. You know what I see during every single damn game? Teams shooting all 3pt shots, making about 27% of them and layups. No one ever, and I mean ever shoots a mid range shot. When they do? Its usually a brick. All they do is practice shooting 3's and taking 3's in a game. The game has become one dimensional big time. Just callin out what I see.

Real Bball > Todays ChuckBA

lol you say "oh I'm talking about my son's AAU" yet continue to apply it to the NBA when it actually does not apply. not to mention that probably not one of them will sniff the NBA.

the only time when it wasn't "one-dimensional" by your definition, was the late-00s to mid-10s. that was by far the most balanced time. 80s was fast breaks then iso. 90s was walk up then iso. not particularly multi-dimensional.

if you preferred seeing that style, that's one thing. but to act as if it was any less "one-dimensional" is simply not true. the dimension has just changed.

[Neo.]

Maybe we should. Increase intelligence, work ethic and toughness

lol yeah john starks was a model of intelligence on the court :lol

[lefty]

lol yeah john starks was a model of intelligence on the court :lol
:lol So was Greg Anthony
:lol and all those YMCA rejects who bit on MJ's weak ass one handed pumpfakes, wtf was that shit

:lol Barkley was so intelligent he would never gamble on a steal in a big game, because you know, that could lead to a game winning 3 by Paxson
:lol Derrick Coleman's work ethic was amazing
:lol Iverson and Rodman never missed practice
:lol Pippen never threw a tantrum duriing games
:lol Michael Jordan never cried to Stern or the refs, so tough

Good old days were so perfect tbh

[lebomb]

lol you say "oh I'm talking about my son's AAU" yet continue to apply it to the NBA when it actually does not apply. not to mention that probably not one of them will sniff the NBA.

the only time when it wasn't "one-dimensional" by your definition, was the late-00s to mid-10s. that was by far the most balanced time. 80s was fast breaks then iso. 90s was walk up then iso. not particularly multi-dimensional.

if you preferred seeing that style, that's one thing. but to act as if it was any less "one-dimensional" is simply not true. the dimension has just changed.


Do you read anything or just reply with some bullshit. I said all AAU basketball. I go to tournaments all over the country. Also, YES some of these players will make the NBA. Ive seen the 5 star athletes play. I still stand by what I see. 3pt shots, layups and floaters with no mid-range game to speak of.

[Neo.]

Do you read anything or just reply with some bullshit. I said all AAU basketball. I go to tournaments all over the country. Also, YES some of these players will make the NBA. Ive seen the 5 star athletes play. I still stand by what I see. 3pt shots, layups and floaters with no mid-range game to speak of.

no different than in the past having a bunch of top recruits who could shoot midrange but couldnt handle a ball if their life depended on it, or big men who could hit hook shots and had no ability to see out of a double team. same ol crap. only the very best of the best can actually do more than one or two tricks.

[lebomb]

no different than in the past having a bunch of top recruits who could shoot midrange but couldnt handle a ball if their life depended on it, or big men who could hit hook shots and had no ability to see out of a double team. same ol crap. only the very best of the best can actually do more than one or two tricks.

Exactly!!!! Thats why the REAL NBA>Todays NBA :smokin

[Neo.]

Exactly!!!! Thats why the REAL NBA>Todays NBA :smokin

so basically all through history, most players are 1 or 2 trick ponies. the only difference is the tricks have changed, and people today are doing more difficult tricks and taking more of a high risk/high reward approach.

got it :tu

[Dirks_Finale]

“Here [in the NBA] it’s easier to score compared to Europe

Today's NBA :lol

[lefty]

Today's NBA :lol

Doncic would have found it even easier if he played in 90s NBA, matched up against those plumbers :lol

[lebomb]

Doncic would have found it even easier if he played in 90s NBA, matched up against those plumbers :lol

Terrible argument.

Doncic is right. I’ve seen players recently come out of college as a freshman and sophomores averaging 13 to 15 points a game. They get in the NBA and average damn near 25. No defense to speak of, chunkin threes and throwing up floaters. The real NBA will always dominate today’s NBA.

[ambchang]

The issue isn’t certain players are one trick ponies. The issue is that all of them are playing the same trick. Specialization has always been a thing , from spot up shooters (Kerr, Armstrong) to defenders (Cooper, Bowen) to rebounders (camby, junkyard dog). But now all the players are three point shooters. It’s boring.

[313]

LaMelo would put Stockton in a blender

:lol yesterday’s nba

[313]

The issue isn’t certain players are one trick ponies. The issue is that all of them are playing the same trick. Specialization has always been a thing , from spot up shooters (Kerr, Armstrong) to defenders (Cooper, Bowen) to rebounders (camby, junkyard dog). But now all the players are three point shooters. It’s boring.you have guys like Simmons, Giannis, and Zion who dominate without threes.

The three point shot was always going to pull the sport more towards specializing in it. The game will evolve like it has in the past.

you’ll have old fans that hang on to the past and new fans that will enjoy what the game has become.

[Neo.]

the only fans who have an issue with todays games are fans who simply prefer different styles. there are lots of fans who absolutely love the modern style too.

whats boring to one fan, may be exciting to another. its all a matter of opinion in the end.

[ambchang]

you have guys like Simmons, Giannis, and Zion who dominate without threes.

The three point shot was always going to pull the sport more towards specializing in it. The game will evolve like it has in the past.

you’ll have old fans that hang on to the past and new fans that will enjoy what the game has become.

More talking about teams and playing styles. Not individuals.
The bucks, pels and 6ers still shoot a high percentage of 3s and the offence is generally the same. The regular season is getting more predictable. The playoffs are not as bad though where the game still has some variety.

[lebomb]

LaMelo would put Stockton in a blender

:lol yesterday’s nba

I highly doubt that. Stockton wouldn't fall for all that magician trickery. He would focus on getting the job done.

[lebomb]

you have guys like Simmons, Giannis, and Zion who dominate without threes.

The three point shot was always going to pull the sport more towards specializing in it. The game will evolve like it has in the past.

you’ll have old fans that hang on to the past and new fans that will enjoy what the game has become.

I love the NBA and still watch as many games as I can. I just feel a HUGE part of the game is lost if all you have to do is chuck 3's and drive for layups. Shots can be made from all over the floor still but players, teams would rather chuck away. Also, defenses are atrocious. Its all reaching now, noone moving their feet and some just simply let you go by and score. :rollin

Todays NBA. :rolleyes

[Dirks_Finale]

Doncic would have found it even easier if he played in 90s NBA, matched up against those plumbers :lol

Love Luka, but he would have crapped his shorts vs those 90's guys like Rodman/Pippen/Jordan. At least, initially, anyway. He's not used to that physicality.

He's a polished talent who could score in any era, but we are talking about a slow it down and beat you up NBA where you got to the rim and were met enforcers like Alonzo or Shaq. His numbers would have been only slightly better than prime Kukoc, tbh.

[Dirks_Finale]

you have guys like Simmons, Giannis, and Zion who dominate without threes.

The three point shot was always going to pull the sport more towards specializing in it. The game will evolve like it has in the past.

you’ll have old fans that hang on to the past and new fans that will enjoy what the game has become.

They need to move the 3pt line back, tbh. Would force players to develop mid range shots and it would bring back traditional centers.

[lefty]

Love Luka, but he would have crapped his shorts vs those 90's guys like Rodman/Pippen/Jordan. At least, initially, anyway. He's not used to that physicality.

He's a polished talent who could score in any era, but we are talking about a slow it down and beat you up NBA where you got to the rim and were met enforcers like Alonzo or Shaq. His numbers would have been only slightly better than prime Kukoc, tbh.

Kukoc survived in the 90s and he wasn’t a physical player, I’m pretty sure Luka would have been more than fine

[ambchang]

Kukoc survived in the 90s and he wasn’t a physical player, I’m pretty sure Luka would have been more than fine

Kukoc dunker 12 lb medicine balls in practice for fun

[Neo.]

literally been spending some free time watching games from the 90s again. :lmao at how "physical" it is, only that its virtually the same as today except for an occasional extra push here and there after a foul has already been called

the main difference is the amount of cheap fouls that are initiated by todays players (which i agree and am no fan of), but thats not their fault. the league needs to enforce the rules differently.

oh and :lmao at how much modern players get flamed for flopping yet how much it always existed, and was invented by 80s and 90s ballers :rollin :rollin

[lefty]

literally been spending some free time watching games from the 90s again. :lmao at how "physical" it is, only that its virtually the same as today except for an occasional extra push here and there after a foul has already been called

the main difference is the amount of cheap fouls that are initiated by todays players (which i agree and am no fan of), but thats not their fault. the league needs to enforce the rules differently.

oh and :lmao at how much modern players get flamed for flopping yet how much it always existed, and was invented by 80s and 90s ballers :rollin :rollin

Why the fuck did you torture yourself ? :lmao

[Neo.]

Why the fuck did you torture yourself ? :lmao

i mean tbh i enjoyed watching it

its just funny to examine the revisionist history by guys like dirks finale and such, and see how horribly exaggerated their claims are

[Neo.]

They need to move the 3pt line back, tbh. Would force players to develop mid range shots and it would bring back traditional centers.

a very legit take tbh


Love Luka, but he would have crapped his shorts vs those 90's guys like Rodman/Pippen/Jordan. At least, initially, anyway. He's not used to that physicality.

He's a polished talent who could score in any era, but we are talking about a slow it down and beat you up NBA where you got to the rim and were met enforcers like Alonzo or Shaq. His numbers would have been only slightly better than prime Kukoc, tbh.

a very retarded take tbh

[lefty]

i mean tbh i enjoyed watching it

its just funny to examine the revisionist history by guys like dirks finale and such, and see how horribly exaggerated their claims are


I agree it’s actually not bad to watch tbh

But yeah the revisionist history is ridiculous, not a lot of things have actually changed overtime (softness, teaming up, etc)

a very retarded take tbh