Spurs' Youth Hasn't Been As Good As Perceived

[TD 21]

Poeltl positive: His usual strong offensive rebounding/rim protection (allowing 51% at rim, a top 10 mark)

Poeltl negative: Everything else. Confidence in tatters. Needs to pull himself together and up his agression considerably. Considering we've seen this before and he's young and healthy, no reason to expect he won't.

Murray positive: Better speed/quickness, finishing, IQ.

Murray negative: IQ bar was so low, it's still lacking. Counting stats are mostly a product of minutes/usage (inexplicably leads team) bump. League average true shooting %: 55. His: 51% thanks mostly to still barely shooting 3s/ft's. Good assist/turnover ration is 2 to 1: His slightly exceeds it, but his assist % of 24 isn't great for a top two initiator.

White positive: incomplete.

White negative: same, but continues to be injury prone.

Walker positive: More 3's while continuing to shoot a good % (still needs to up his rate though), finishing, IQ

Walker negative: A lot of the same as Murray, all of which has led to a 53% ts. Unlike the former, continues to have intermittent confidence/role related issues.

Johnson positive: Powerful drives and 3 remain (though no one guards it). Has played stout post defense and done yeoman's work on boards, musts while playing out of position as nominal four.

Johnson negative: Continues to show little clue what to do when he can't barrel his way to the rim and finish. Impertaive he develops footwork/handle (euro/side steps, step throughs, spin move, etc), in between game (pull ups, runners/floaters) and diversifies finishing package.

Vassell positive: Has come as advertised as a heady team defender, solid individual one and volume 3-point shooter.

Vassell negative: Given his circumctances/role, haven't seen one.

Conclusion: Definite improvement, but a lot of empty calories that have been obscured by counting stats tied to minutes/usage increase.

[jjktkk]

Conclusion: A lot of empty calories that have been obscured by counting stats/usage.

"A lot of empty calories" is your takes in a nutshell. But on to your thread. What exactly were you expecting from these picks? None of thee players you posted about were surefire, can't miss prospects. The only lottery selection out of these Spur's players was Poeltl;, who was drafted by Toronto. Your thread would have merit if these players you mentioned were lottery picks, so I don't know why you felt the need to overanalyze and overexaggerate these mid to late, 1st round draft picks.

[Joseph Kony]

Walker, Murray, and KJ have all been better than the previous season. Of course they still have room for improvement, but it's hard to be disappointed with those three.

Vassell looks like a player, he needs more minutes

Can't judge White yet but he looked very good in limited minutes, his toe thing is just a freak accident but I get it is starting to appear the kid is made of glass

No argument on Poeltl, dude has been a soft ass pussy and the biggest disappointment so far.

All in all, SA is .500 and have had some impressive wins against the LA teams so I can't be too upset, especially given the injury issues they've dealt with thus far

[Chinook]

I do think it's important to keep in mind how much room for improvement the young players still have. As of yet, they need DeRozan and LMA to still be stars, and I firmly believe the offense should still run through them. I'm sure this thread will hang around for a while, and I might go into some depth about my views on your takes at some point. Don't disagree with the broad strokes though.

[bluebellmaniac]

So is OP saying we should use our time machine and redo our picks, or trade them all and start over?

[Blackhaus]

I like the growth of all of them and the potential outside of Poodle, man what a disappointment he’s been thus far.

[TD 21]

So is OP saying we should use our time machine and redo our picks, or trade them all and start over?

Neither, just putting their performance in perspective . . . which will surely anger the apologists/homers.

[timvp]

Conclusion: Definite improvement

That's the most important part, tbh. I don't think any of the youngsters is past the point where it's safe to even call them a surefire above average starter going forward but there are enough encouraging signs that it allows that hope to remain. Keldon, for example, has shown that his bubble performance wasn't a total fluke caused by the small sample size ... and that alone is a good development.

The only player on your list trending the wrong way is Poeltl ... but the NBA as a whole is trending away from his playertype so that shouldn't be a huge surprise to anyone who has paid attention. Plus, as has been noted, he started slowly the last two seasons.

I don't have much of any issue with your writeup other than the title. Outside of a few hopeful Spurs fans, I don't think the general perception of the youngsters is wrong. It's not like any of the players receive any type of star-in-the-making type of hype.

[bluebellmaniac]

Neither, just putting their performance in perspective . . . which will surely anger the apologists/homers.

These are unfortunately extraordinary times. Fixing some things will take longer than it otherwise would. KBD especially...

[bluebellmaniac]

Poodle is still young for his position. Time can still heal and improve things.

[TD 21]

I don't think any of the youngsters is past the point where it's safe to even call them a surefire above average starter going forward.

It's not like any of the players receive any type of star-in-the-making type of hype.

I'm no criticizing them, but three have already received pricey extensions and Johnson looks poised to join them (Walker is less certain, but remains a possibility).

The reality is, if at least one can't at least hit pseudo star level, going forward they probably have a mediocre-bad team that's not quite bad enough to get the best odds for the highest ranked prospects and no centerpiece for a star trade package . . . which isn't all that different from the past 3 seasons.

[PhantomDashCam]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts OP.

Like Timvp stated, the most encouraging aspect for me is that there definite improvement, at least from the majority of players on the roster.

The question marks I had for re: some key players specifically coming into the season:

- Could Dejounte’s and Lonnies’ basketball IQs start to measure up to their unique physical attributes?
- Would Keldon have enough PT and usage to prove the bubble was more than just a personnel and situational advantage?
- Can D. White stay healthy?
- Would DDR and LMA cede enough offensive responsibilities for the young ones to thrive?
etc, etc.

have been IMHO answered in the affirmative, sans the White injury (which it too might prove to be a positive - allowing extra mins for Vassell that he certainly would not have had.)

Looking forward to more data on this in the next 10 - 15 games.

[timvp]

The reality is, if at least one can't at least hit pseudo star level, going forward they probably have a mediocre-bad team

"Team X will probably be mediocre/bad if young prospects don't develop as hoped."

What a deep, courageous, bold statement. Tell us more, oh wise one :wow

[TD 21]

"Team X will probably be mediocre/bad if young prospects don't develop as hoped."

What a deep, courageous, bold statement. Tell us more, oh wise one :wow

I don't get the combativeness/hostility, but typical.

The difference is, most teams in their position are banking on high picks(s) developing into that during the life of their entry level contracts, which is generally a safer bet.

[cd021]

I'm actually pretty bullish on Murray, KJ, and Vassell. I don't think any are going to be stars, per say, but good NBA players-- not bad considering that the highest of those four was taen with the 11th pick. Obviously, they're need a star for these players to revolve around but its a pretty good star if and when the Spurs go in on a full rebuild.

Murray- Better decision-making, i.e. less dead-end drives to the rim and pushing in transition for easier baskets. His jumper looks really good and he's shooting it with confidence and at double the rate he shot them last season (3.6 vs 1.7 per game). His 3pt percentage is slowly but surely rising too and his finishing at the rim has taken a step forward. I expect his TS% to increase to above average sooner rather than later. He'll have to increase his FT rate to maximize his efficiency but its a good start.

Walker- Struggles with consistency and aggression levels but the talent is there. Has the athleticism and skill to get to the rim but still has to improve his effiency. Good news is that he's a legit good shooter and is shooting them at a pretty high volume (4.5 3pt per game). He still has to become a better defender but looks like he still has a lot of offensive upside, especially if he can draw more fouls and find a baseline of offensive aggression.

Johnson-Also a good shooter (never doubted it, even after shooting poorly in the G-League because of how he was used in college). Drives hard and plays with hustle. As others have said, there are downsides to barreling into the paint-- injuries and offensive fouls. As OP stated, he'll have to develop more finesse such as euro-steps and spin moves to avoid some of that contact near the rim. He's shown promise on defense but probably never becomes an elite defender but probably still a good two-way player.

[Em-City]

At least they're fun to watch - i'll take their improvement as is, and enjoy throwing on spurs games where we can continue the fun brand of ball that was showcased in the bubble, as well as potential to further improve over a tanking squad any day.

[Dex]

I don't get the combativeness/hostility, but typical.

The difference is, most teams in their position are banking on high picks(s) developing into that during the life of their entry level contracts, which is generally a safer bet.

When was the last time the Spurs had a high pick?

Oh, that's right...it was last offseason, and so far Vassell has shown all signs of being a valuable player worthy of the #11 pick.

People seem to forget that Murray, White, and Johnson were all taken with the 29th pick, and Walker IV wasn't that far behind at 18.

The fact that we can have a thread debating which one has the most star potential is a testament to the Spurs drafting.

The only real disappointment in the bunch is Poeltl who was a lottery pick (by the Raptors), is still young, and his game seems to be trending in the wrong direction this season.

[timvp]

I don't get the combativeness/hostility, but typical.

My guy, I agreed -- broadly speaking -- with what you wrote. The Spurs don't have any surefire studs amongst their youngsters. Notable strides have been made, as you admit, but too early to anoint anyone.

I did find it funny that you tried to dress it up as if any of it is a hot take. Of course if young players don't continue to develop the team won't improve. That's true for any team in any sport :lol


The difference is, most teams in their position are banking on high picks(s) developing into that during the life of their entry level contracts, which is generally a safer bet.Eh. First off, I don't think that's true. Show me these "most teams" you speak of. Secondly, the players you're referencing (Murray and White) were late first round draft picks. The fact that they didn't emerge as stars by the end of their rookie contract is a weird complaint and isn't comparable to teams that have been stuck in the lottery for years. Murray and White were a product of The Gutless Worms Era The Golden Era, which meant they were drafted late, didn't have an opportunity to play right away and, for better or worse, would take time to develop. As we've seen with someone like Keldon Johnson who was drafted into a post-championship window team, the evaluation process will speed up naturally.

[ismael-robert]

Agreed nothing new here

[TheGreatYacht]

Tre Jones will be what y'all thought Cory "no J" Oseph would be tbh..

He's ready to contribute right away but sadly won't get a chance this year unless Dejounte gets hurt or Patty gets traded.

[Seventyniner]

I did find it funny that you tried to dress it up as if any of it is a hot take. Of course if young players don't continue to develop the team won't improve. That's true for any team in any sport :lol

Gotta disagree here. Free agency and trades are viable ways to improve, and are why the Lakers are the defending champs and favorites right now. They sure as hell didn't get there through developing their young players.

Admittedly there are no LeBron-level free agents out there, and the Spurs would be highly unlikely to land one of that caliber anyway. But I do see a potential path to improvement that doesn't heavily involve the young'uns.

[Sugus]

Spurs Youth™ showing up in a solid win sans DeRozan, tbh

[Mr. Body]

I think the development has been terrific and we have a lot to look forward to. Their individual ceilings may not be that high -- we don't know -- but what they're doing is very exciting, plus in tandem. Getting these talents with such low picks is tremendous and Devin has barely even started the process.

[J_Paco]

"A lot of empty calories" is your takes in a nutshell. But on to your thread. What exactly were you expecting from these picks? None of thee players you posted about were surefire, can't miss prospects. The only lottery selection out of these Spur's players was Poeltl;, who was drafted by Toronto. Your thread would have merit if these players you mentioned were lottery picks, so I don't know why you felt the need to overanalyze and overexaggerate these mid to late, 1st round draft picks.

He is a Darryl Downer that always has to piss in someone's Cherrios.

Wow, none of our non - lottery pick talent is elite. What an astute and amazing analysis that hasn't been said 1,000 times on SpursTalk.

They've all shown some improvement, except for Poeltl (confidence is wavering) & Samanic, and that is what is most important. They all were pretty ho - hum last season - whether their fault or Pop's - so their improvement in play is telling.

I'd love to jettison the veterans and "tank" for an elite prospect (Evan Mobley) to pair with the young guards/wings, but the team might be too talented to completely bottom out. Unless a wave of injuries completely derail the season then they'll likely be in the hunt for the play - in game or tournament.

[Dejounte]

Y'all stop hating on TD 21. Nothing he is saying is wrong and he isn't adding fuel to any fire that deserves backlash. There's no need for personal attacks.

As it stands, the young guys have been good, not great. It's okay to expect great when a lot of here (me included) were hyping the kids up.

The reality is it's going to take time. For some players, they might not even get there.

Truth be told, I believe we are in a better spot than where we were before pre-season where a couple of our guys looked hopeless already.

[DAF86]

The Spurs' youth might not be as good as perceived by some homers here, but they sure as fuck are better than perceived by the rest of the league and fanbases, tbh. The Spurs have made rotation players of 5 straight middle to late first round picks. I don't know if that has ever been done before by a team, tbh.

[J_Paco]

Y'all stop hating on TD 21. Nothing he is saying is wrong and he isn't adding fuel to any fire that deserves backlash. There's no need for personal attacks.

As it stands, the young guys have been good, not great. It's okay to expect great when a lot of here (me included) were hyping the kids up.

The reality is it's going to take time. For some players, they might not even get there.

Truth be told, I believe we are in a better spot than where we were before pre-season where a couple of our guys looked hopeless already.

Nothing he said is wrong, but it didn't warrant a thread or trying to "lower" people's exceptions or excitement.

Seems like his usual M.O. of trying to negatively hedge his bets so he can be "right" on a message board.

None of the kids may reach their perceived ceiling, a few of which were way, way too high based on limited playing time, but they've shown more in 10 games than all of last year (minus Samanic & Poeltl), IMO.

[spurraider21]

I don't get the combativeness/hostility, but typical.

The difference is, most teams in their position are banking on high picks(s) developing into that during the life of their entry level contracts, which is generally a safer bet.
Probably because you’re always bitching

[J_Paco]

Probably because you’re always bitching

Has he ever made a positive or optimistic post in his time on ST?

[Chinook]

The Spurs' youth might not be as good as perceived by some homers here, but they sure as fuck are better than perceived by the rest of the league and fanbases, tbh. The Spurs have made rotation players of 5 straight middle to late first round picks. I don't know if that has ever been done before by a team, tbh.

Sam was the combo-breaker. It was

Murray --> White --> Walker -->XXXXXXX

Johnson --> Vassell

[Mr. Body]

I think some of y'all are sniffing your own farts and somehow think we have a bunch of #1 picks on our hands. The development of these players has been fantastic. The stat production is shaky at times, maybe, but what's happening is that they're learning how to dig down and win games.

[DAF86]

Sam was the combo-breaker. It was

Murray --> White --> Walker -->XXXXXXX

Johnson --> Vassell

Johnson still a first round pick on that year. So, 5 straight years of middle-late rotation players.

[spurraider21]

Has he ever made a positive or optimistic post in his time on ST?
Yeah one time he called them gutless worms

[Sugus]

Seems like his usual M.O. of trying to negatively hedge his bets so he can be "right" on a message board.

If only it was just him, and not like a quarter of the regular posters on here... :depressed

Seriously, nobody cares that you think the Spurs are going to lose this or that game. Even worse when they quote themselves after the game's over, like there wasn't a 50/50 chance of either outcome literally every single game :rolleyes

[Sugus]

The Spurs' youth might not be as good as perceived by some homers here, but they sure as fuck are better than perceived by the rest of the league and fanbases, tbh. The Spurs have made rotation players of 5 straight middle to late first round picks. I don't know if that has ever been done before by a team, tbh.

Idk if you saw it in the game thread, Daffy, but I'm officially boarding the Marfan Demigod bandwagon. Guy has a lot of potential, and his weight/body issues were overblown by many, me included, without taking into consideration that he'll be playing in by far the softest era of NBA basketball ever. He's got future, I'd say his floor is a shooting roleplayer that's got to be hidden on defense, with the ceiling obviously being a do-it-all offensive unicorn powerhouse. Good shit :tu

[Chinook]

Idk if you saw it in the game thread, Daffy, but I'm officially boarding the Marfan Demigod bandwagon. Guy has a lot of potential, and his weight/body issues were overblown by many, me included, without taking into consideration that he'll be playing in by far the softest era of NBA basketball ever. He's got future, I'd say his floor is a shooting roleplayer that's got to be hidden on defense, with the ceiling obviously being a do-it-all offensive unicorn powerhouse. Good shit :tu

I do agree the early results look encouraging. The jury's still out as to whether his body develops enough to take advantage of his skills or if his skills develop enough to where the rest of the league has to adjust to his body. But he's not looking like a bust. Between this and how Jerami Grant has been going off, DAF has to feel great about his off-season predictions at this point of the season.

[J_Paco]

Yeah one time he called them gutless worms

And that was during the Tim, Tony & Manu Era and they were championship contenders.

No wonder he's making pointless threads trying to temper other people's excitement or expectations, right now.

:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

[siraulo23]

Walker, Dejounte, Keldon, they've shown enough so far this season to me, all three of them got really good potential to turn into something.

White, enough said.

Vassell's defensive potential is amazing, he's gonna be a very good role player at the very least.

Very disappointed with Jakob, wtf happened to him, cant defend, cant finish, cant make free throws.

[J_Paco]

Idk if you saw it in the game thread, Daffy, but I'm officially boarding the Marfan Demigod bandwagon. Guy has a lot of potential, and his weight/body issues were overblown by many, me included, without taking into consideration that he'll be playing in by far the softest era of NBA basketball ever. He's got future, I'd say his floor is a shooting roleplayer that's got to be hidden on defense, with the ceiling obviously being a do-it-all offensive unicorn powerhouse. Good shit :tu


I do agree the early results look encouraging. The jury's still out as to whether his body develops enough to take advantage of his skills or if his skills develop enough to where the rest of the league has to adjust to his body. But he's not looking like a bust. Between this and how Jerami Grant has been going off, DAF has to feel great about his off-season predictions at this point of the season.

Who the hell are y'all talking about?!

[DAF86]

Idk if you saw it in the game thread, Daffy, but I'm officially boarding the Marfan Demigod bandwagon. Guy has a lot of potential, and his weight/body issues were overblown by many, me included, without taking into consideration that he'll be playing in by far the softest era of NBA basketball ever. He's got future, I'd say his floor is a shooting roleplayer that's got to be hidden on defense, with the ceiling obviously being a do-it-all offensive unicorn powerhouse. Good shit :tu

Yeah, I've been watching some Thunder games. Even when he couldn't hit a fucking shot, he still looked good, tbh.

[Chinook]

Who the hell are y'all talking about?!

Poke/Pokusevski from OKC.

[DAF86]

I do agree the early results look encouraging. The jury's still out as to whether his body develops enough to take advantage of his skills or if his skills develop enough to where the rest of the league has to adjust to his body. But he's not looking like a bust. Between this and how Jerami Grant has been going off, DAF has to feel great about his off-season predictions at this point of the season.

The Spurs should just hand me a FO job, imho.

[J_Paco]

Poke/Pokusevski from OKC.

He looks like he could be a unique weapon on offense, but unless he gains a lot of muscle then he'll remain a net negative on defense.

They were hiding his skinny ass on Patty and DeJounte while Pop made a point to hunt him on defense.

And he has an abnormally big head and long neck. Maybe it'll be less noticeable once he add some muscles and pounds to his frame.

[KobesAchilles]

TD 21 hasn’t been as good a poster as perceived

TD 21 positives: incomplete
TD 21 negatives: whining without substance. Unrealistic

This is Lonnies first real year of playing and he’s doing a damn good job at it. Expecting great all the time from a guy who has never really played before is dumb. Lonnie has been waaay better than any of us could have realistically asked for. KJ has played like 18 games and you are already shitting on his drives? It takes game practice to get those. He’s been robbed of about 20 free throws this year bc refs have no idea who tf he is. Once he gets seasoned and Pop reminds refs who KJ is every game, expect his game to transform even more.

DJ has outperformed his contract so far. Dude has been balling this year. He has a strong case for MPOY. He can get better at stuff of course, but at this point it’s about balance and reps. The more reps he gets than the more balance he will get both offensively and defensively (where he has recovers a lot).

Poetl sucks. He just plain sucks. He got paid and doesn’t give a fuck and is soft. That’s the only one I agree with you on. Dude can’t handle a starters role or minutes. Reference the Poetl to China thread to see my take on him.

[DAF86]

He looks like he could be a unique weapon on offense, but unless he gains a lot of muscle then he'll remain a net negative on defense.

They were hiding his skinny ass on Patty and DeJounte while Pop made a point to hunt him on defense.

And he has an abnormally big head and long neck. Maybe it'll be less noticeable once he add some muscles and pounds to his frame.

He's actually posting better metrics on defense than on offense so far. He's not a one on one stopper but he's a defensive playmaker. He gets rebounds, steals and blocks in bunches. His perimeter defense has also been better than anticipated so far. He can switch and stay in front of rivals as good as most guys.

[Sugus]

TD 21 hasn’t been as good a poster as perceived

TD 21 positives: incomplete
TD 21 negatives: whining without substance. Unrealistic

This is Lonnies first real year of playing and he’s doing a damn good job at it. Expecting great all the time from a guy who has never really played before is dumb. Lonnie has been waaay better than any of us could have realistically asked for. KJ has played like 18 games and you are already shitting on his drives? It takes game practice to get those. He’s been robbed of about 20 free throws this year bc refs have no idea who tf he is. Once he gets seasoned and Pop reminds refs who KJ is every game, expect his game to transform even more.

DJ has outperformed his contract so far. Dude has been balling this year. He has a strong case for MPOY. He can get better at stuff of course, but at this point it’s about balance and reps. The more reps he gets than the more balance he will get both offensively and defensively (where he has recovers a lot).

Poetl sucks. He just plain sucks. He got paid and doesn’t give a fuck and is soft. That’s the only one I agree with you on. Dude can’t handle a starters role or minutes. Reference the Poetl to China thread to see my take on him.

The rare time I agree with every single part of your comment. Good shit, my guy. People have way too high of expectations on this roster.... 80% of posters were calling for a tank and saying the roster was shit coming into the season, now they're 4-1 on a road trip and people still criticize the youngings? Come on... Also failing to understand that you don't just draft experienced players. You have to let them make mistakes, lose games in painful manner, so they can learn and get better. There's been a lot of learning opportunities this season, and the guys seem to be taking them and improving the best that they can. What more can we even ask for? Watching the Spurs this season has not felt like a chore at any point, even in the losses, tbh. I haven't rage quit a single time, unlike last season with Beli-Forbes-Patty closing lineups.

I'm dandy, but clearly some posters just won't ever be pleased.

E: Also, MPOY? Must be a new trophy I'm not aware of :lol

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I'll have a go at a pessimistic take since this seems the thread for it.

Spurs are bottom 10 in FG%, bottom 10 in 3PA and bottom 5 in FTA. They barely pass the ball in offensive possessions or have any kind of structure both offensively and defensively. On top of that none of the young players has an even average PER ( I think Murray might have juuust cracked it after last night ) and their advanced stats generally look quite bad.

Not sure if this is good or bad tbh. Is it a team that's getting results while not being 100% and having injured players, or a terrible team that's had some luck?

[Dhbsr555]

Y’all acting like we’ve had four top 5 picks. The youth is doing hella good

[Spursfanfromafar]

Its still early in the season and the young'in development era is still work-in-progress. I thought White was the most complete of the lot and he could have threatened a place in borderline All-star category, but unfortunately he has been injured. He was the only young'in who was net positive on both defensive and offensive RAPTOR (538) and RPM last year apart from Poeltl (who was marginally a plus-plus). And he made a leap during the Bubble by becoming a fearless long range shooter. Here's hoping he comes out of his toe issues and gets back to where he left off in the Bubble.

Murray & Walker have both definitely improved - Murray on offense - finishing (a definite leap), jump shot accuracy and being careful with the ball. Walker is somewhat more consistent this season than the previous one.

Johnson is still practically a rookie in the NBA while Vassell is a newbie. Miles to go before we can actually evaluate them for "greatness to come".

If this lot makes it to the playoffs and the Spurs can snag someone like John Collins next year, it will be an even better project to have. Lets see.

[exstatic]

Who the hell are y'all talking about?!

Poku.

[rankingtear]

Every draft class 20 on average make it in the NBA, half of those are potential primaries. We have 4 maybe 5 potential primaries in the past 5 drafts.

The core young 4 are flawed prospects that made leaps to their game to be 1 of 10 potential primaries in their class, they are well behind and they caught up.

They are addressing their ceilings this season, DJ and Lonnie with their improved feel for the game, White with the improved pull up and KJ with top tier strength.

[Dejounte]

I'll have a go at a pessimistic take since this seems the thread for it.

Spurs are bottom 10 in FG%, bottom 10 in 3PA and bottom 5 in FTA. They barely pass the ball in offensive possessions or have any kind of structure both offensively and defensively. On top of that none of the young players has an even average PER ( I think Murray might have juuust cracked it after last night ) and their advanced stats generally look quite bad.

Not sure if this is good or bad tbh. Is it a team that's getting results while not being 100% and having injured players, or a terrible team that's had some luck?

Bottom 10 in FG% = We've been blowing lay-ups like crazy + missing wide open looks from 3, which may be attributed to our guys not being natural shooters
Bottom 10 in 3PA = This shouldn't count against the Spurs. Just because you have a certain style of play doesn't mean you should get penalized for it.
Bottom 5 in FTA = Refs not willing to blow their whistle in favor of the Spurs

Curious why these three stats were the ones you chose.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Bottom 10 in FG% = We've been blowing lay-ups like crazy + missing wide open looks from 3, which may be attributed to our guys not being natural shooters
Bottom 10 in 3PA = This shouldn't count against the Spurs. Just because you have a certain style of play doesn't mean you should get penalized for it.
Bottom 5 in FTA = Refs not willing to blow their whistle in favor of the Spurs

Curious why these three stats were the ones you chose.

Largely agree with your observations, especially about refs whistles. Hopefully this changes, because Spurs are driving to the rim more than ever, create more shots than any other team from drives, yet rarely go to the line.

Chose these 3 particular stats because generally teams that are inefficient offensively and not even middle of the pack defensively aren't on the right track.

[rankingtear]

Bottom 10 in FG% = We've been blowing lay-ups like crazy + missing wide open looks from 3, which may be attributed to our guys not being natural shooters
Bottom 10 in 3PA = This shouldn't count against the Spurs. Just because you have a certain style of play doesn't mean you should get penalized for it.
Bottom 5 in FTA = Refs not willing to blow their whistle in favor of the Spurs

Curious why these three stats were the ones you chose.

LA shooting 43% from the field has something to do with it.

[lefty]

well
they’re young

[rjv]

So is OP saying we should use our time machine and redo our picks, or trade them all and start over?

start with who the OP is and then that's all you need to know.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Bad thread title. I'd say if you drafted today you'd take all of those players mentioned (except Poetl), at, or above where they were chosen. We still haven't had a top 10 pick in the draft since Duncan, yet we've reloaded reasonably well. Are any of those guys superstar talents? I'd say that's inconclusive. No one thought Kawhi was a superstar his first two years in the league. But I think the indications are there that White, Walker, Murray, Johnson and Vassell could all eventually be stars. From my perspective we've gone 5 for 5 on talent vs. order in the draft. Luka is the outlier, but he may develop as well. As for Vassell, he didn't have summer league or G-league to hone his game at all, yet he's holding his own. Guy's going to be good.

I'd have to give our FO and scouts an A+ for how they've managed the last few drafts.

[Chucho]

There's two ways to look at the young guys here:

1. Are they meeting/beating expectations for a bunch of low 1st rounders? Absolutely. Don't like the fact that Murray is overpaid, but it is what it is, but hopefully we can flip him into an asset.

2. Are they going to bring us back to prosperity? No, not by themselves and adding more mid-late 1st round NBA picks wont help, nor does tanking in drafts that are 1-3 player drafts, at best.

[TD 21]

There's ample positive comments and substance, you miserable idiots just didn't like the source. The criticism is always especially laughable when it comes from clueless and/or vanilla types, which unfortunately comprises the majority of the board.



My guy, I agreed -- broadly speaking -- with what you wrote. The Spurs don't have any surefire studs amongst their youngsters. Notable strides have been made, as you admit, but too early to anoint anyone.

I did find it funny that you tried to dress it up as if any of it is a hot take. Of course if young players don't continue to develop the team won't improve. That's true for any team in any sport :lol

Eh. First off, I don't think that's true. Show me these "most teams" you speak of. Secondly, the players you're referencing (Murray and White) were late first round draft picks. The fact that they didn't emerge as stars by the end of their rookie contract is a weird complaint and isn't comparable to teams that have been stuck in the lottery for years. Murray and White were a product of The Gutless Worms Era The Golden Era, which meant they were drafted late, didn't have an opportunity to play right away and, for better or worse, would take time to develop. As we've seen with someone like Keldon Johnson who was drafted into a post-championship window team, the evaluation process will speed up naturally.

But not without being unnecessarily combative/hostile.

I didnt, that's just your interpretation of virtually everything I type. You're predisposed to it, so it's all just confirmation bias for you and your followers at this point. Now you're being intentionally obtuse.

As in, most re-building teams. Let's get something straight for the reading comprehension impaired: I wasn't criticizing the picks or rate of development in general. Considering where they were picked, they were already a collective success before the season. I'm just saying, the metrics say they haven't been as good as the perception.

[Mr. Body]

This post is basically "Imma make up what I think y'all think about these players and then powerfully disagree."

[EricB]

That's the most important part, tbh. I don't think any of the youngsters is past the point where it's safe to even call them a surefire above average starter going forward but there are enough encouraging signs that it allows that hope to remain. Keldon, for example, has shown that his bubble performance wasn't a total fluke caused by the small sample size ... and that alone is a good development.

The only player on your list trending the wrong way is Poeltl ... but the NBA as a whole is trending away from his playertype so that shouldn't be a huge surprise to anyone who has paid attention. Plus, as has been noted, he started slowly the last two seasons.

I don't have much of any issue with your writeup other than the title. Outside of a few hopeful Spurs fans, I don't think the general perception of the youngsters is wrong. It's not like any of the players receive any type of star-in-the-making type of hype.


the only star hype I’ve gotten is Lonnie when someone with the team said they thought they had “Jimmy Butler 2.0”

[Fireball]

My take so far is nearly every team has so much young talent these days ... Spurs do not seem to have something special yet ... despite this I love watching the young guys play and improve while getting some impressive wins as well

[Ice009]

the only star hype I’ve gotten is Lonnie when someone with the team said they thought they had “Jimmy Butler 2.0”

Someone that works for the team said this? If so, was it recent, or when he was drafted?

[spurspl]

spurs fans: dont tank or trade for a top pick in a draft, its not worth it

the same spurs fans: what do u expect from a mid to late draft picks??

[MannyIsGod]

If you could redo the NBA draft of each one of those picks with what we know now, do the Spurs still get any of those players? Nope.

[Sugus]

spurs fans: dont tank or trade for a top pick in a draft, its not worth it

the same spurs fans: what do u expect from a mid to late draft picks??

Literally which Spurs fans didn't want to trade for a top pick in the draft? We just went over a possible situation of this with GSW's #2 pick, and the overwhelming consensus here was that the Spurs should go for it, with the major distinction being which prospect was worth that pick, where posters naturally had different opinions. I don't think I read a single comment saying "it's not worth it", and would appreciate a link to it.

Y'all make up the weirdest narratives to find things to complain about, tbh.

[FireMicoHalili]

So is OP saying we should use our time machine and redo our picks, or trade them all and start over?
Calm your man tits he’s just saying they aren’t as good as they’re hyped up to be

[bluebellmaniac]

Calm your man tits he’s just saying they aren’t as good as they’re hyped up to be

Chut up bish!

[FireMicoHalili]

Chut up bish!
how about no u little bitch lmao

[Capt Bringdown]

No need to over complicate things. Spurs don't have anyone to replace White's floor leadership.

[Chomag]

The growth of the youth has been great, its just the vets and Pop that are keeping this team down in mediocrity