Grades: Spurs vs. Rockets - Jan. 14, 2021 [Archive]

John B

01-15-2021, 02:01 AM

Thanks for the grades Timvp. This loss is on Pop. Granted the Rockets played with something to prove tonight. But Spurs didn’t match the same level of intensity by relying on the vets. Where is the Bubble excitement Pop? Where was the defense when the Rockets did a roundrobin on our bigs? How is Patty closing when we have Lonnie with hot hands the last two games and even tonight? Pop is so excited about Mills playing a 6th man of the year, he’s having him close games? Did that experiment get us to the playoffs last season? If this is the line up for the rest of the season, then it’s the same old sh%t. Lonnie needs to learn to close. If Aldridge is not playing D, pull him out. Players need to earn their minutes playing D, simple or it would send mix signals specially to the younger players. Pop did not make that a priority tonight. This loss was on Pop, plain and simple.

TDMVPDPOY

01-15-2021, 02:51 AM

ALL the vets on the team... they combined for 8/10 of the spurs payroll... get rid of them

spurs10

01-15-2021, 02:53 AM

Thanks for the grades. Man this game was a nightmare to watch down the stretch. Up by 9 and then we completely fold. Patty has been playing great before tonight. LMA is going to have to get something going on Saturday. DDR was looking like he had it going on until crunch time. Thought the iso play at the end was the last nail in the coffin. Frustrating to see after how well KJ, Devin, DJ, and Walker played. Better get it together, another loss to this depleted Houston squad is gonna hurt.

MoSpur02

01-15-2021, 03:37 AM

Pop and Patty deserve Fs. Stupid decision to leave Mills in the game in the 4th. Told my wife Houston will comeback because of Mills’ defense or lack thereof.

AussieFanKurt

01-15-2021, 04:07 AM

Aldridge is so fucking bad. Worse than abysmal on D. Cunt just has no heart tbh

tmtcsc

01-15-2021, 04:24 AM

Aldridge deserves an F - Failure to compete. I'm tired of his act & Spurs' wouldn't get much back in a trade. Just a waste.

Longlonglongtimelurk

01-15-2021, 05:11 AM

Aldridge is so fucking bad. Worse than abysmal on D. Cunt just has no heart tbh
It doesn’t make you any ‘Aussie-er’ dropping Cunt in every post FYI.

Rummpd

01-15-2021, 05:19 AM

Pop and Patty deserve Fs. Stupid decision to leave Mills in the game in the 4th. Told my wife Houston will comeback because of Mills’ defense or lack thereof.

Truth

Dejounte

01-15-2021, 05:38 AM

https://twitter.com/TheTyJager/status/1350025010195402752?s=19

https://twitter.com/AssassinateHate/status/1350014727548784641?s=19

sananspursfan21

01-15-2021, 07:02 AM

Thanks for the grades! I promised myself I wasn’t going to get angry about losses or take games too seriously this year...well, I got angry :lol this game was in hand late and it was completely squandered. I had a feeling this would be an inspired game by the Rockets though. Pop and his crew should have known that and prepared with a better effort. This is the version of the Spurs that makes me not even wanna watch. Losses are one thing but this didn’t look like a good effort to try and win really. Hopefully we see a bounce back Saturday.

Dejounte

01-15-2021, 07:16 AM

I'll share this here too:

USG% tonight:

1. Lonnie Walker - 29.6%
2. Keldon Johnson - 27.2%
3. DeMar DeRozan - 20.9%
4. LaMarcus Aldridge - 19.8%
5. Patty Mills - 17.5%
6. Dejounte Murray - 17.4%
7. Rudy Gay - 17.1%
8/9. Devin and Poetl - 12.6%

https://www.nba.com/game/hou-vs-sas-...core#box-score (https://www.nba.com/game/hou-vs-sas-0022000176/box-score#box-score)

For the season,

NBA Average is 20%

LaMarcus ranks #53 in usage among all NBA players with an average of 23.7%
DeMar ranks #59 in usage among all NBA players with an average of 23.3%
Dejounte ranks #67 in usage among all NBA players with an average of 22.8%
Patty ranks #88 in usage among all NBA players with an average of 20.5%

https://www.basketball-reference.com...stats::usg_pct (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_advanced.html#advanced_stats::usg_pct)

The Spurs are the only team next to the Raptors without a player averaging 25+% USG from any of its rotational players.

The ball is being shared evenly among players, better than 90% of the entire NBA. This stat could even go lower if DeMar didn't take it upon himself to be the closer in games.

For additional comparison, if we look at any of the currently decent teams without a "true star" like us, for example the Pacers-- they have three guys above 24%: Sabonis, Brogdon, and Oladipo at 27%. For a team without an established star, the Spurs are sharing the ball as well as any team could have. For a team with "ex-stars" in Aldridge, DeMar... that's impressive. Why is it impressive? Because there's a myth on this forum that they have not taken a step back for the young guys. I only agree with that statement only during the clutch when DeMar's "activities" with the ball goes up. I could see the justification for that being that no one outside of him and Derrick White, no one else has elite ball security + can score in the clutch.

Dejounte

01-15-2021, 07:32 AM

LaMarcus had the most points scored against him with 23 points.
DeMar had the second most points scored against him with 16.
Keldon with 15.

As far as opponent 3's are concerned,
Four threes were scored against DeMar.
Three threes were scored against Aldridge.

Top defensive guys of the night were DJ and Poetl. (I am NOT saying Poetl is a better solution than Aldridge given that his offense is abysmal)

https://www.nba.com/game/hou-vs-sas-0022000176/box-score#box-score

I don't necessarily believe BOTH DeMar and Aldridge have to go after this season for us to be better next season. If one goes (preferably Aldridge), things will improve. Having both hurts. Let's hope the Spurs do to Aldridge what they did with Bryn Forbes: recognize he is hurting us immensely on defense and prepare to move on.

Dejounte

01-15-2021, 08:06 AM

https://i.ibb.co/87Fcrx1/VID-20210115-064636.gif

https://i.ibb.co/x8XPXvW/VID-20210115-064656.gif

https://i.ibb.co/NLZKWKt/VID-20210115-064721.gif

https://i.ibb.co/7R1pPQ3/VID-20210115-064735.gif

https://i.ibb.co/cxxLX6W/VID-20210115-064757.gif

https://i.ibb.co/R46GtW4/VID-20210115-064815.gif

https://i.ibb.co/VWBWGbd/VID-20210115-064836.gif

Shameful defense on the last two clips.

Truth4sale$

01-15-2021, 08:17 AM

Thanks for the write up but like many here, I disagree with some of these grades. FIBA Patty sometimes works and other times it doesn't and this game was one of those. He was horrible all night. This is why the Spurs should be slowly breaking in Tre Jones. Patty was forcing up shots and getting abused defensively. He should not have been there down the stretch.
Where was Lonnie down the stretch, the second best scorer in the game sits for Patty. I dont get it

tbdog

01-15-2021, 08:26 AM

I think Lonnie hurt his hand. He was taken off after that weird turn over.

Poeltl can't play as he shoots 25% from the line. So he'll never play in the clutch.

LMA with 2 rebounds? Wtf. May as well just stay on Woods if your not rebounding.

We'll get nights like this with Gay. Just accept it at his age. Hence why LMA was forced to play. Spurs has no other center down the stretch.

When Mills is off, he usually stays off. I don't know why Pop just insist he'll break out of it during the game. He has seen him play like this for 8 seasons.

No excuse to lose to that team.

Trill Clinton

01-15-2021, 08:34 AM

Of course the Spurs would lose to a undermanned team full of backups.

poopbox

01-15-2021, 09:35 AM

Dejounte

01-15-2021, 09:42 AM

Poeltl airballing layups and freethrows and getting a B grade :lmao

LMA getting roasted by every bum they put in a rockets jersey and getting a C :lmao

Pop playing 3 of the bottom 4 players who played last night in crunch time and gets a C :lmao

OP setting at the head of the class in sniffer school 101 :lmao

https://media.tenor.com/images/d801111eeb2f928b50897f6484aec5bc/tenor.gif

Really not sure why people post stuff like this. Timvp is just like any other guy. He's ordinary like you and me. He doesn't have a degree or specialization in basketball. These grades aren't official for anything. No one is going to take these grades and use it for anything else. Doesn't make any sense to criticize the grades, especially when you aren't offering your own.

Dex

01-15-2021, 10:25 AM

Pop and Patty deserve Fs. Stupid decision to leave Mills in the game in the 4th. Told my wife Houston will comeback because of Mills’ defense or lack thereof.

Agreed. Patty has been playing great this season but last night he was obviously off, and started pressing later in the game to get himself going and try to play hero.

Stupid decision on his part when you've got Johnson and Walker getting whatever they want, but it's partially on Pop because that's Patty's role when he is on the floor. You can't force shots when you are on the bench.

Dex

01-15-2021, 10:27 AM

https://media.tenor.com/images/d801111eeb2f928b50897f6484aec5bc/tenor.gif

Really not sure why people post stuff like this. Timvp is just like any other guy. He's ordinary like you and me. He doesn't have a degree or specialization in basketball. These grades aren't official for anything. No one is going to take these grades and use it for anything else. Doesn't make any sense to criticize the grades, especially when you aren't offering your own.

Some posters seem to think every player either deserves an A+ or an F- with no imbetween.

Aldridge had some good moments, and a lot of bad ones. He was getting abused on defense, but also hit some shots late in the game to try to keep the Spurs afloat. I could justify a D, but a C- is certainly fair.

Dejounte

01-15-2021, 10:35 AM

More national recognition for KJ:

https://twitter.com/NBADraftWass/status/1350097387734360065?s=19

Aggie Hoopsfan

01-15-2021, 10:50 AM

Come on LJ, Pop deserved a big fat F for the fourth.

RC_Drunkford

01-15-2021, 11:19 AM

why are people here expecting Flopovich to get an F when SniffVP didn't give him F's for starting Bryn Forbes 2 years straight?

Ed Helicopter Jones

01-15-2021, 11:48 AM

I thought Pop had figured out that the old guys are, well...old.

I'd of much rather watched our young guys go down swinging than to go with essentially the same line-up and game plan that cost us so many games in the 4th quarter last season. Give Johnson or Walker that last shot. I called DeRozan's miss, exactly like he did it, before it came out of his hand. Had he been hot all night I might have forgiven Pop, but it was obvious to everyone that it wasn't DeRozan's...or Patty Mills night. And Patty needs to be a role player, and that role isn't to be on the floor late in games. We got out-hustled last night and all of our veterans didn't come to play.

I really was proud of Pop for turning the corner and actually putting some trust in the youth movement. Last night's Q4 play-calling and rotations down the stretch proved me wrong. :(

Boo....

poopbox

01-15-2021, 12:41 PM

https://media.tenor.com/images/d801111eeb2f928b50897f6484aec5bc/tenor.gif

Really not sure why people post stuff like this. Timvp is just like any other guy. He's ordinary like you and me. He doesn't have a degree or specialization in basketball. These grades aren't official for anything. No one is going to take these grades and use it for anything else. Doesn't make any sense to criticize the grades, especially when you aren't offering your own.

Did you post the same thing for the people who said the grades were great ? Cause these grades aren't official or anything. No one is going to take these grades and use it for anything else. It doesn't make sense to congratulate the grades, especially when you aren't offering your own.

Dejounte

01-15-2021, 12:45 PM

Did you post the same thing for the people who said the grades were great ? Cause these grades aren't official or anything. No one is going to take these grades and use it for anything else. It doesn't make sense to congratulate the grades, especially when you aren't offering your own.

Nice try, but I think the point went over your head. If someone made a post with *grades* (good or bad) I disagreed with, I wouldn't waste my time to critique it. Their opinion, timvp's opinion, my opinion, are all on equal ground. timvp's grades aren't holy and true nor did he claim it was to warrant your nonsense post. He's not a basketball savant. I'm not a basketball savant. We're all average joes. It doesn't matter if the grades were positive or negative. This isn't grade school. Humble yourself and think at a higher level, please.

KobesAchilles

01-15-2021, 12:55 PM

Nice try, but I think the point went over your head. If someone made a post with *grades* (good or bad) I disagreed with, I wouldn't waste my time to critique it. Their opinion, timvp's opinion, my opinion, are all on equal ground. timvp's grades aren't holy and true nor did he claim it was to warrant your nonsense post. He's not a basketball savant. I'm not a basketball savant. We're all average joes. It doesn't matter if the grades were positive or negative. This isn't grade school. Humble yourself and think at a higher level, please.
That being said, Pop should get an F :lol

Mugen

01-15-2021, 12:59 PM

I don't think I've ever seen Pop with an F tbh :lol

Sugus

01-15-2021, 02:13 PM

Didn't catch the game, looks like I didn't miss much :lol when will Pop learn that for young guys to get better at closing, they need to start closing games instead of always having to rely on vets...

itzsoweezee

01-15-2021, 04:10 PM

Sugus

01-15-2021, 04:42 PM

The worst part of this team is how boring they are to watch.

They should be running up and down the court, shooting a bunch of threes. Instead, we get heavy doses of derozan and Aldridge. Yawn inducing mediocrity

They're exponentially more fun to watch than last season, tbh, I don't know what kind of games you're looking for. The Spurs will never be one of those teams "running up and down the court, shooting a bunch of threes" because it's simply not the philosophy of the team (and I personally like them better for it, tbh). The vets are overplayed and that sucks, but apart from that, the youth has been quite exciting to watch this season.

Dex

01-15-2021, 05:24 PM

They're exponentially more fun to watch than last season, tbh, I don't know what kind of games you're looking for. The Spurs will never be one of those teams "running up and down the court, shooting a bunch of threes" because it's simply not the philosophy of the team (and I personally like them better for it, tbh). The vets are overplayed and that sucks, but apart from that, the youth has been quite exciting to watch this season.

This guy gets it.

I don't understand why people want us to become a shitty version of the Rockettes when we have spent the last 15 years trashing Pringles-ball.

The only players who should really be gunning away from three are White, Mills, and maybe Lonnie. Johnson has shown he can hit them if needed but he doesn't strike me as a volume shooter and is better going to the rim.

DeRozan shooting threes has helped his game but he is still not a sharpshooter from there. Murray is barely over 30% from three.

Aldridge seems to have completely forgotten how the hell to shoot a basketball. And I'd be satisfied if I don't see Lyles on the floor anymore this season.

Just "running and shooting a bunch of threes" doesn't work if you don't have the personnel.

LeBowen

01-15-2021, 05:40 PM

I think that the team is really fun to watch when the young guys are running the show. And they do plenty of running, as we've seen yesterday.

Then Pop trots out his lineups with 3 of Patty/DDR/Rudy/LMA and it reverts back to 2003.
*A bad 2003 team, not 2003 Spurs, just to be clear.

Iso chucking, no sense of urgency, awful rotations, awful pnr defense. Opponents start making every shot and the whole game collapses.

Even having 2 of DDR/Rudy/LMA on the floor at the same time makes us an awful defensive team, 3 of them at the same time is just a disaster.
Poeltl mitigated some of it last season, but now that he looks like he's a 15 year vet who's about to retire, it's a layup drill every single game. If the primary defender gets taken out off the dribble or gets stuck on a screen, everything falls apart. Two passes and it's a wide open shot. Every single game. Devin is the only one who's somewhat consistently making good rotations and plays as a help defender. We need a defensive anchor badly. Either a PF or C, doesn't matter.

LMA is just done, negative on both ends of the floor if he's not having one of his hot shooting nights.
Patty really convinced himself he's a 20ppg scorer and Pop will never tell him to stop chucking. He's also a negative asset when his shot isn't falling, as we've seen yesterday.
Rudy is beyond washed. Has his moments here and there, but his current ability doesn't deserve more than a vet minimum.
Demar is in contract year and he's actually trying to play defense even though he's still awful. He adjusted his game and is letting the young guys take over when they're hot. But he just doesn't fit with them. Unless the other team has a useless wing that just sits in the corner, Demar is a liability on every defensive possession.

Sure, if Demar leaves, the roster would be worse short term. But experience isn't something you can trade for. It's better to have the young guys learn from their mistakes this season, than have them defer to Demar for another couple of years and not be ready to be the first option when it's time to take the next step in the playoffs.

4 expiring vets are so bad for the future of the team that I'd be happy if all of them walked at the end of the season, even if we get absolutely nothing in return.

r0drig0lac

01-15-2021, 06:54 PM

That being said, Pop should get an F :lolthis

itzsoweezee

01-15-2021, 08:00 PM

Ice009

01-15-2021, 09:12 PM

4 expiring vets are so bad for the future of the team that I'd be happy if all of them walked at the end of the season, even if we get absolutely nothing in return.

I'm starting to think the same thing. If all of the vets walked and we got nothing, I don't think I'd be that upset about it at all. That 4th quarter line-up was atrocious. He fucking loves Patty Mills like he loved Bryn Forbes. Awful biased coaching.

Sugus

01-15-2021, 10:01 PM

What used to set the Spurs apart from other teams was the willingness to adapt to change. The corner three, small ball, 3 and D on the wing. Now they’re just archaic and it’s embarrassing.

Ehh, the youth is playing pretty modern basketball, tbh. The archaic stuff is mostly the vets, who I also wish were off the team and probably will be by next season. Beyond that, the youth is pretty well adapted to how the league's currently playing, with the major differences being the amount of 3's we take (and make), which as Dex points out is due to a lack of quality volume shooters, and the outdated defensive schemes, which are further made worse by really poor play by our big men. Overall though, there's just not the level of talent for some league-storming offensive - nor defensive - sets, tbh.

Also, I'd say the most important thing that set the Spurs apart from other teams over time has always been having their identity in defense, tbh. That's been really untrue for this season, but still miles better than the last one. Baby steps...

timvp

01-16-2021, 01:30 PM

Spurs fans can be so reactionary :lol

If the Spurs hit a three on that last possession, there'd be whines that Pop deserved an A and not a C-. But DeRozan missed the shot so Spurs fans want Pop to get an F instead of a C-. Good stuff :tu

Complaints about relying on DeRozan, Aldridge and Mills down the stretch ring a bit hollow considering that's been the alignment all season and it has previously worked out well. (I complained about it too so I'm equally as guilty, tbh.)

The bigger issue with Pop's coaching came prior to the closing push, IMO. With DeRozan and Aldridge struggling so much, they should have played less -- particularly in the first three quarters. Pop has been doing just that more often than not ... but not last game, for whatever reason -- even though DeRozan and Aldridge were really struggling.

BackHome

01-16-2021, 02:54 PM

[QUOTE=LeBowen;10405910]I think that the team is really fun to watch when the young guys are running the show. And they do plenty of running, as we've seen yesterday.

Then Pop trots out his lineups with 3 of Patty/DDR/Rudy/LMA and it reverts back to 2003.
*A bad 2003 team, not 2003 Spurs, just to be clear.

Iso chucking, no sense of urgency, awful rotations, awful pnr defense. Opponents start making every shot and the whole game collapses.

Even having 2 of DDR/Rudy/LMA on the floor at the same time makes us an awful defensive team, 3 of them at the same time is just a disaster.
Poeltl mitigated some of it last season, but now that he looks like he's a 15 year vet who's about to retire, it's a layup drill every single game. If the primary defender gets taken out off the dribble or gets stuck on a screen, everything falls apart. Two passes and it's a wide open shot. Every single game. Devin is the only one who's somewhat consistently making good rotations and plays as a help defender. We need a defensive anchor badly. Either a PF or C, doesn't matter.

LMA is just done, negative on both ends of the floor if he's not having one of his hot shooting nights.
Patty really convinced himself he's a 20ppg scorer and Pop will never tell him to stop chucking. He's also a negative asset when his shot isn't falling, as we've seen yesterday.
Rudy is beyond washed. Has his moments here and there, but his current ability doesn't deserve more than a vet minimum.
Demar is in contract year and he's actually trying to play defense even though he's still awful. He adjusted his game and is letting the young guys take over when they're hot. But he just doesn't fit with them. Unless the other team has a useless wing that just sits in the corner, Demar is a liability on every defensive possession.

Sure, if Demar leaves, the roster would be worse short term. But experience isn't something you can trade for. It's better to have the young guys learn from their mistakes this season, than have them defer to Demar for another couple of years and not be ready to be the first option when it's time to take the next step in the playoffs.

4 expiring vets are so bad for the future of the team that I'd be happy if all of them walked at the end of the season, even if we get absolutely nothing in return.[/QUOTE

Great post could not agree more wit you. Sometimes you have to take a couple of steps back in order to go forward again.

AussieFanKurt

01-16-2021, 07:36 PM

It doesn’t make you any ‘Aussie-er’ dropping Cunt in every post FYI.

seen

itzsoweezee

01-16-2021, 08:12 PM

Ehh, the youth is playing pretty modern basketball, tbh. The archaic stuff is mostly the vets, who I also wish were off the team and probably will be by next season. Beyond that, the youth is pretty well adapted to how the league's currently playing, with the major differences being the amount of 3's we take (and make), which as Dex points out is due to a lack of quality volume shooters, and the outdated defensive schemes, which are further made worse by really poor play by our big men. Overall though, there's just not the level of talent for some league-storming offensive - nor defensive - sets, tbh.

Also, I'd say the most important thing that set the Spurs apart from other teams over time has always been having their identity in defense, tbh. That's been really untrue for this season, but still miles better than the last one. Baby steps...

Yes, the vets are the entire problem. They don’t need to be the focus/identity of this team. That’s pop’s choice.

Sugus

01-16-2021, 08:25 PM

Yes, the vets are the entire problem. They don’t need to be the focus/identity of this team. That’s pop’s choice.

I can agree wholeheartedly with you on this. I'd go as far as saying that Pop identifies himself, and the team, with the vets, and we're on the cusp of a hard culture reset next season or the next one, whenever Pop lets go of the helm, and the team inevitably shakes off these low-value vets in favor of either more young players, or hopefully high-quality vets. There's a lot of things that are hanging on by Pop's thread right now, tbh, that wouldn't be so if he wasn't running the team. At least in my view of the team.