Lonnie Walker is Overrated Offball Guard

[John B]

He’s super athletic but he doesn’t the defensive IQ to a smarter player like Doncic or Curry. I rather they put Vassell or Keldon. Prove me wrong Lonnie.

[The Truth #6]

My concern is that he is an unbelievably poor finisher. I mean, he’s great at getting into the teeth, so there’s amazing promise, but he can’t hit a freaking layup. Basically, I think he is afraid of contact; he’s sort of the opposite of Keldon.

[cd98]

Murray was an unbelievably poor finisher, but three years in the league he improved a lot in that area. I think we need to give Walker one more year. It’s not like he had trouble finishing in the G League. He’s just adjusting to the big boy league. The fact that he can get to the rim is encouraging.

[Atl Spur]

He has no fire.......

[BillMc]

It's not his offense that concerns me really. It's his defense.

[CGD]

The reality is that of the 5 young guards, Spurs likely won’t be able to keep all in their long term plans. Some one, maybe Lonnie, will show enough flashes to become an interesting trade piece.

Like what does DDR/LMA + Lonnie fetch?

[Chinook]

The Spurs need to figure out what their future lineup will look like. Hopefully they run as far away from this hydra shit as possible. Doing that would mean moving one of White or Murray while also moving on from DeRozan. Walker may or may not stick, but he's more competing with Vassell than he is the other guys. Keldon is a nice piece, but he really needs to diversify his scoring tool box.

[gambit1990]

i've been on the trade him boat for a while now.

[CGD]

The Spurs need to figure out what their future lineup will look like. Hopefully they run as far away from this hydra shit as possible. Doing that would mean moving one of White or Murray while also moving on from DeRozan. Walker may or may not stick, but he's more competing with Vassell than he is the other guys. Keldon is a nice piece, but he really needs to diversify his scoring tool box.

Agree. They need to balance out the roster over the next two years. Murray/White is a decision point, but it’s not clear cut given Derrick’s age and Murray seemingly taking a step toward this year. Vassell/Lonnie does seem like the other one. Keldon is unique enough bc of his motor and seems to be a long term keeper.

[Slippy]

He has no fire.......

This. Dont think his one on one d is a concern, maybe team defense is still a work in progress. I mean defensivly he often taking on the oppositions best and once picked is not getting enough help on the switch.

Its his passive offensive game im not liking. He likes to watch it seems. Too often going through the motions, not even trying to test his full ability. Does seem to shy away from contact . Dwhite comes back, one of the guards will have to take a lesser role.. nice guy lonnie putting his hand up.

[Manong Ginobili]

LWIV is talented, but it is obvious that he can't play with DeMar. Since DeMar's return, he has not been playing well, unlike the games when DeMar was out of the line up. At this point, it's better to ship off DeMar, and see what LWIV can do.

[apalisoc_9]

He doesn’t really have the skillsets to be a consistent performer. Has some tools but thats about it. His offense is very linear and he’s not physically inposing.

Loonie would shine if the spurs had a legitimate superstar though.

[FkLA]

He just doesnt have a dog mentality. All the other main young guys have it except him. He's probably the most talented out of the bunch but just doesnt have that fire. He's disappointed the fuxk out of me this year. He's looking more and more like an empty calories, poor man's Zach Levine than a solid two-way guy, imo.

[tim_duncan_fan]

My concern is that he is an unbelievably poor finisher. I mean, he’s great at getting into the teeth, so there’s amazing promise, but he can’t hit a freaking layup. Basically, I think he is afraid of contact; he’s sort of the opposite of Keldon.

He's not even looking to attempt to finish. If you watch him drive, most times he is damned-near moving toward the outer edge of the paint, the space between the paint and the corner 3, almost with his back to the basket. He is aiming to get rid of it first because he doesn't want to deal with the possibility of contact.

He'll only attack if the lane is mostly clear and won't dunk unless absolutely no one is near him.

[Kurgan]

Vassell makes so much more sense playing Lonnie's role in the starting unit as the offball shooter/defender. Lonnie can shoot but he seems disinterested when he doesn't have the ball in his hands. And his defense is miles worse than Devin.

[B1gduff]

damn people already turning on waker after begging and begging them to start him.

Dude's in his second full year with the team, he's still raw but is developing. Dudes has developed so much from last year.

stop bitching, and let him develop. maybe after the 3 year than start complaing and bitching, you weakass bitches.

[Chinook]

damn people already turning on waker after begging and begging them to start him.

Dude's in his second full year with the team, he's still raw but is developing. Dudes has developed so much from last year.

stop bitching, and let him develop. maybe after the 3 year than start complaing and bitching, you weakass bitches.

Eh, there are a lot of folks on ST who've never liked Walker and haven't been dissuaded to change their minds. I have been a huge defender of him, but I don't think he's a good fit with the "offense" Pop wants to run. Unlike a lot of folks here, I don't think it's simply a matter of DeRozan leaving to "unlock" him. Lonnie has some really intriguing one-on-one potential, but he should be getting most of his touches created by the offense, and Pop seems too interested in finally fulfilling his career-long dream of running two PGs at the same time to bother to coach on that side of the ball. I'm really curious if he can adjust to Murray's absence by anything other than giving DeRozan even more touches or starting Mills. White being hurt was the perfect time to work Walker in as the second option. Murray getting hurt means there's no excuses at this point.

[B1gduff]

Eh, there are a lot of folks on ST who've never liked Walker and haven't been dissuaded to change their minds. I have been a huge defender of him, but I don't think he's a good fit with the "offense" Pop wants to run. Unlike a lot of folks here, I don't think it's simply a matter of DeRozan leaving to "unlock" him. Lonnie has some really intriguing one-on-one potential, but he should be getting most of his touches created by the offense, and Pop seems too interested in finally fulfilling his career-long dream of running two PGs at the same time to bother to coach on that side of the ball. I'm really curious if he can adjust to Murray's absence by anything other than giving DeRozan even more touches or starting Mills. White being hurt was the perfect time to work Walker in as the second option. Murray getting hurt means there's no excuses at this point.


I respect what you said and i agreed with you somewhat. I would also say that Lonnie himself, is fully there to be a consitent player. he's still raw and needs to develop and that's on both side of the court.

[LCM]

As long as DJ is out, put Jones and Vassell with starters and bring Mills and Walker off the bench with Lonnie the primary ball handler when DeRozen sits. If Lonnie can't take advantage of bench players, use him at the deadline for additions to this team that will make an impact in the future. This coaching staff is wasting his potential with the role they are putting him in, and he isn't being aggressive in what he does on the floor.

[poopbox]

The Spurs need to figure out what their future lineup will look like. Hopefully they run as far away from this hydra shit as possible. Doing that would mean moving one of White or Murray while also moving on from DeRozan. Walker may or may not stick, but he's more competing with Vassell than he is the other guys. Keldon is a nice piece, but he really needs to diversify his scoring tool box.

Trade one of the two guards who the spurs thought were good enough for second contracts :lol

Murray and White are going to be our starting back court going forward unless a Giannis or Anthony Davis type player becomes available and you can trade one of Murray or White for that player :lol

It's like you guys do not at all consider real life trends and historical contexts for this front office when it comes to talking about what they need to do :lol

They have ridden LMA until the wheels have literally fallen off but they are going to turn around and trade a guard in his physical prime on a really good deal for...what exactly ?

[TheGreatYacht]

Would love to see him in a 6th man role like Jordan Clarkson. He's not a good defender, so I don't think he should be a starter.

Aldridge/Poeltl
DeRozan/Gay
Johnson/Walker
White/ Mills
Murray/Jones

[talkspurs]

I would trade lonnie and Trey Lyles for Mo Bamba. We would get another young big that will shoot the 3 and supposed to be good at defense. I would start him over Jakob. we would have one more year to see if he developes before we would have to resign him. I think magic are done with him and this would get them a young guard. This would basically be them trading back 5 spots as both lonnie and Mo were in the same draft.

[Dejounte]

Eh, there are a lot of folks on ST who've never liked Walker and haven't been dissuaded to change their minds. I have been a huge defender of him, but I don't think he's a good fit with the "offense" Pop wants to run. Unlike a lot of folks here, I don't think it's simply a matter of DeRozan leaving to "unlock" him. Lonnie has some really intriguing one-on-one potential, but he should be getting most of his touches created by the offense, and Pop seems too interested in finally fulfilling his career-long dream of running two PGs at the same time to bother to coach on that side of the ball. I'm really curious if he can adjust to Murray's absence by anything other than giving DeRozan even more touches or starting Mills. White being hurt was the perfect time to work Walker in as the second option. Murray getting hurt means there's no excuses at this point.

Are you kidding me? Lonnie has been one of the most supported player on this forum. Let's not play revisionist history here. He's always been treated as the 'second coming' and "all he needs is a chance" is a line MANY said around here. That's just bullshit.

[Dejounte]

damn people already turning on waker after begging and begging them to start him.

Dude's in his second full year with the team, he's still raw but is developing. Dudes has developed so much from last year.

stop bitching, and let him develop. maybe after the 3 year than start complaing and bitching, you weakass bitches.

This is the most ironic part. Pop is basically being proven right for not playing Lonnie much last year. He probably saw all the beta/ softness issues Lonnie is showing in full display right now and it was a method of trying to instill toughness in him. Sorry, my guy Sugus, I don't think saying Pop 'broke' him has any credibility. At some point, the player has to take some accountability.

[talkspurs]

This is the most ironic part. Pop is basically being proven right for not playing much last year. He probably saw all the beta/ softness issues Lonnie is showing in full display right now and it was a method of trying to instill toughness in him. Sorry, my guy Sugus (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=54941), I don't think saying Pop 'broke' him has any credibility. At some point, the player has to take some accountability.

Ive never been high on lonnie and have stood up for DJM. most people were against me but I have been consistent in who I felt was better. I do think if Lonnie played with confidence he would be better (then he is now) but dont know why he does not play with confidence.

[Dejounte]

With that said, nobody should be giving up on the guy. They just need to lower their expectations. Lonnie's primary issues are two main things: lack of toughness and weak defensive principles. These are serious issues, probably moreso than the weaknesses our other guys have. Like someone said, it's very similar to DJ and how everyone thought he was a lost cause. However, I think DJ was able to solve his problems by 1) getting stronger, thereby improving his finishing ability and 2) becoming faster. It was not a mental thing for DJ.

[Degoat]

I still think Lonnie can be special but, we expected him to be a Donovan Mitchell type and he’s looking more like an Iman shumpert lol he’s just gotta work on his confidence and for the love of god his finishing around the rim

[rankingtear]

Weaknesses: Lacks defensive intensity, especially off the ball, as he has a habit of floating around the court instead of remaining engaged … Looks lost at times on offense when the ball isn’t in his hands … Needs to have the ball in order to be a threat offensively, but likely won’t be the primary option on offense, will need to develop his off the ball game.

[RC_Drunkford]

Well I think he just needs more time to develop. Right now Pop is challenging him defensively by letting him guard the opponents best player, where he is getting cooked on a nightly basis. Offensively he’s learning how to play off ball. He does a good job shooting, but I‘d like to see him move more to get open and cut to the rim.

I also think he would be better suited for coming off the bench and getting his touches there. He still needs to improve his finishing, but I think he will get there by next season. He’s definitely not a defensive stopper, but maybe he‘ll improve by guarding these tough match ups

[Larry O]

LW4 has flashes of being a DWade lite player, but he's still raw which is one of his issues. Also, what exactly is his role on this team? To be like BB12, except that LW4 has athleticism? Unsure if this is LW4'S strengths though, and if he's sold on that role or not, and this could be holding his
full potential back. Another is his confidence which is inconsistent. He is soft, especially when going into the paint as a scorer, as if he is afraid of the contact. This makes me wonder if he's still hasn't gotten over his injury from his rookie season from a mental standpoint. Defensively, meh. I think he was asked to take on the challenge just because of his athleticism, but I think that deep down inside, it's not his real passion, maybe. But he's too inconsistent with his motor aggressiveness and this, I believe goes back to his confidence level. But it's on him to continue to learn on and off the court. Everyone develops and matures differently from a time standpoint. As he and the coaching staff evaluate his strengths and weaknesses, this should prompt him in the offseason, to work on his game for improvement. Hopefully in two or three years, we may see a more mature and polished player that we/he are looking forward for him to be! There are lots of variables to this, but the bottom line is, if he wants to be a winner and have a successful NBA career, it's on him to go out there and get it, though. GSG!!!

[Atl Spur]

Lonnie could be special but he must put forth real effort; he has the tools! He must get mentally tougher.

[LeBowen]

The biggest issue is that he rarely imposes himself. He just runs around while worse players keep chucking.

I really thought he's finally starting to figure it out after those 2 games when Demar was out, but then he just reverted back to passive role.
He'll be due for an extension soon and we need to know if he's worth it or not.
In their current state, this roster is an easy sweep for LA teams even if they make the playoffs. There's literally nothing to gain.

Lonnie can start, but his minutes needs to be staggered so he's in charge of the offense when Demar is on the bench. Especially while Derrick is out.
Instead we have to watch FIBA Patty shamelessly chuck every single game, washed up Rudy and his iso chucking with Jakob being useless because noone can utilize his great screens properly.

It's not a coincidence Spurs won most games when Patty/Rudy didn't do much ballhandling, but just had spot up shots.
Watching those two black holes on offense is agonizing. Especially considering their lack of defensive impact.

I'd rather see Lonnie, Keldon and Devin chuck 20 shots a game each than watch the washed up veterans win a couple more games that will ultimately lead to nothing.

[CGD]

Weaknesses: Lacks defensive intensity, especially off the ball, as he has a habit of floating around the court instead of remaining engaged … Looks lost at times on offense when the ball isn’t in his hands … Needs to have the ball in order to be a threat offensively, but likely won’t be the primary option on offense, will need to develop his off the ball game.




Change title of thread. Sounds like he is an “appropriately” rated offball guard.

[spurraider21]

he just lackys physicality on both sides of the ball. on offense he is terrified of contact and on defense he just lacks intensity. which sucks because he has the tools and enough skill to be something... a guy who can drop 20 ppg as a designated scorer of sorts, while also playing solid defense using his good length and quickness. but none of that has manifesting with the exception of glimpses of him being a natural scorer (those games where demar was out)

[NASpurs]

I love Lonnie and I hope he pans out but he's proven to be a mental midget as a basketball player. Hope he figures it out soon because he has the tools.

[Spurs Homer]

damn people already turning on waker after begging and begging them to start him.

Dude's in his second full year with the team, he's still raw but is developing. Dudes has developed so much from last year.

stop bitching, and let him develop. maybe after the 3 year than start complaing and bitching, you weakass bitches.


this ^


if GM's listened to these armchair experts - spurs would have zero titles!

[8FOR!3]

This is the first time he’s getting consistent minutes in his career. He’s already gotten better at shooting 3’s and not being afraid to shoot them. He’s green but he’ll continue to improve he already has improved

[BackHome]

I think Lonnie is going through a lot and to be honest he is going to have to fight through a lot of demons to reach his true potential. I think him coming out that he was a victim of abuse at a young age has impacted him probably more then most could ever understand. You add his knee injuries just adds more complexity to him finding a good place within himself. He has a long journey and it is going to take years for him to work on himself but I wish him the best and just want him to try and find peace in the journey.

[SpursDynasty85]

He’s a boarder line rookie type at this stage. And now he’s playing with an awkward lineup of vets on contract and other young guys looking for playing time. I’ll assume he continues to get better gradually over the course of this year and will make the proper jump next year just like Dejounte this year.

[BackHome]

When you draft guys with high potential like Luka and Keldon you really need to give them a minimum of 3 years before you try to give up on them. In all honesty it’s probably 3-5 years especially these young kids coming in at 18 or 19 years old.

[Mr. Body]

Walker is a late first rounder thrust into a starting role on a team that badly, badly needs a scoring punch. He's better suited coming off the bench and cannot live up to the team's needs right now.

[JeffDuncan]

When you draft guys with high potential like Luka and Keldon you really need to give them...

Competent coaching.

Which the Spurs lack at this time.

[John B]

Spurs fans expect so much that our high picks would end up like another Tony or Manu. But TP and Manu were lucky they had DRob, Timmy that took all the pressures away and let them play in their comfort zone. Our current roster doesn’t have that, not enough to win games, and so we start looking from Keldon, DJ, Lonnie, and what fans want to believe that they could be the steal of the draft. I’m equally guilty, and so becomes frustrated when they don’t live to our high expectations, especially when they are forced to start playing outside of their character to get the win. Personally I’ll try to learn to lower my expectations and accept that it takes time. I’d be happy if they win, but I cannot be so disappointed if they lose. GSG!

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

I don’t think he is overrated. I haven’t seen anybody say he is a great player on this board or any place else.

I will say his inconsistency and timidity is very disappointing for someone with the physical ability he possesses though.

[B1gduff]

Its call being Patience, something that most of the folks here don't know about. Lonnie wasn't a top 5 pick, he was late teens pick. Its gone take time and patiences.

[exstatic]

Walkers issue is that he has no fire. Most of the time, he just drifts around, and when he gets the ball, he always hesitates, because he seems to woolgather, and not be aware of where everyone is on the floor. If Devin is considered to have high processor speed, Lonnie’s issue is low processor speed.

[OldMan88]

Just agreeing to all the BUTS expressed about LWIV... such as talented & athletic BUT weak & timid. Also, I agree he has some problems from his past, haircut notwithstanding, but if he needs to get his shit together, take an unpaid sabbatical and get some help. If he wants to keep the millions he’s getting paid, then suck it up buttercup and play ball with some fire in your belly.

[talkspurs]

I don’t think he is overrated. I haven’t seen anybody say he is a great player on this board or any place else.

I will say his inconsistency and timidity is very disappointing for someone with the physical ability he possesses though.

I might be getting some of this wrong but I am pretty sure I have seen several here say that he was a future all star. Some will put potential or something else by it but I have seen others that dont. I have seen many that wanted to trade DJm this summer over him saying he was much better. Now that this season has started most have pulled away from that but people were still overstating how good lonnie was.

[KingKev]

I might be getting some of this wrong but I am pretty sure I have seen several here say that he was a future all star. Some will put potential or something else by it but I have seen others that dont. I have seen many that wanted to trade DJm this summer over him saying he was much better. Now that this season has started most have pulled away from that but people were still overstating how good lonnie was.

There were many on this board proclaiming him the next D Wade now its looking like he may be the odd man out depending on what this off season holds.

[RC_Drunkford]

I still believe he can become an All-Star, maybe even a franchise player. He just has a high ceiling. The good thing about his timid play might be that we can extend him for cheap, then give him more responsibility once the vets are gone. That seems to be ideal

[duncan2150]

Look at dejounte he is improving a lot this year, that could take some time and that's good because it could be cheaper to ressign him

I still like him , he has a ton of potential and like dejounte said we just need to lower our excpectations for the moment.

[JeffDuncan]

Has it been mentioned that Lonnie will do much better with a different head coach?

[Dejounte]

Has it been mentioned that Lonnie will do much better with a different head coach?

Give the player some accountability for once. Tired of treating sucky players like they're the victims. Not saying Lonnie is bad and that the nail is in the coffin, but damn.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

I might be getting some of this wrong but I am pretty sure I have seen several here say that he was a future all star. Some will put potential or something else by it but I have seen others that dont. I have seen many that wanted to trade DJm this summer over him saying he was much better. Now that this season has started most have pulled away from that but people were still overstating how good lonnie was.


i seen most folks say he has the POTENTIAL to be an all star and the best of our young guys IF everything clicks. that’s totally different than folks saying he is a good player now. Lol

I don’t think he is overrated but I do think a lot of folks have a lot of hope he can get things to all come together

[John B]

Lonnie played so much better today. He's a little selfish with 1 assist, but better than deferring too much. If he can play aggressive every night, he can be very effective. Way to go Lonnie!

[Mr. Body]

Has it been mentioned that Lonnie will do much better with a different head coach?

:lol This fucking board. :lol

[The Truth #6]

I think Lonnie is going through a lot and to be honest he is going to have to fight through a lot of demons to reach his true potential. I think him coming out that he was a victim of abuse at a young age has impacted him probably more then most could ever understand. You add his knee injuries just adds more complexity to him finding a good place within himself. He has a long journey and it is going to take years for him to work on himself but I wish him the best and just want him to try and find peace in the journey.

I think this is a big part of it. He looks like someone who has a lot going on in their head. In the Summer, I wrote that people will need to adjust expectations for him while he works through his demons.

Right now he is playing to avoid mistakes and getting yelled at so he can stay on the court, in my opinion. I think he has fire, but it’s been buried. He is still improving. He isn’t moving backwards. He just isn’t improving as fast as any of us would prefer, including me.

[RC_Drunkford]

maybe Lonnie would already be better if he wasn't buried behind Belinelli for half a season

[exstatic]

maybe Lonnie would already be better if he wasn't buried behind Belinelli for half a season

He’s not now, so what’s the excuse? He’s starting, and still timid. Keldon played most of the season in Austin last year, and he’s clearly passed Lonnie by. Vassell will probably do so, soon. That would leave him only ahead of our two year Euro project among first round picks in the last five years.

[PrimeMinister]

His job within the starting unit is to take open 3's and drive the ball when the situation calls for it or the possession is winding down.

If you're expecting him to be "aggressive" and start taking possessions away from Demar, Lamarcus, Rudy, Patty- you don't understand how Pop expects his young players to play. He gives you a role or a job, you do that job well and get better at it, prove you're ready for more, and you get it. With the make up of this team right now there's not a lot of room for him to expand that role.

Let's all just hold our collective breath and wait for a young player to buck that entire reality and start clapping for the ball while it's clear there's 5 offensive players ahead of him in the pecking order. In the times Pop has expanded his role, the 2 games derozan missed, he was tasked with initiating offense and gave us 24 and 25 points. That's just not his job right now every night and it won't be until next year if/when derozan, rudy, and aldridge are no longer taking up the bulk of our possessions. There's one ball and too many iso first players for him to get his at this point.

[John B]

His job within the starting unit is to take open 3's and drive the ball when the situation calls for it or the possession is winding down.

If you're expecting him to be "aggressive" and start taking possessions away from Demar, Lamarcus, Rudy, Patty- you don't understand how Pop expects his young players to play. He gives you a role or a job, you do that job well and get better at it, prove you're ready for more, and you get it. With the make up of this team right now there's not a lot of room for him to expand that role.

Let's all just hold our collective breath and wait for a young player to buck that entire reality and start clapping for the ball while it's clear there's 5 offensive players ahead of him in the pecking order. In the times Pop has expanded his role, the 2 games derozan missed, he was tasked with initiating offense and gave us 24 and 25 points. That's just not his job right now every night and it won't be until next year if/when derozan, rudy, and aldridge are no longer taking up the bulk of our possessions. There's one ball and too many iso first players for him to get his at this point.

I know what you mean, but we've also seen before that that's not always the case with Pop. Manu was being Manu, and eventually Pop gave in. Keldon showed in the Bubble that he was aggressive attacking the hoops, getting rebounds, loose balls, etc, and now Pop is giving him the green light every night. And I know Lonnie already earned the green light, as he lets them fly sometimes. And that's the problem, sometimes! Lonnie needs to a have the "alpha" mentality. He's the most athletic in there, and yet he's finishing soft, or not even attacking when he has the mismatch. Attack the rim! That's what Spurs fans want to see. He has so much talent.

[NASpurs]

:lol

1353750216458067969

[exstatic]

His job within the starting unit is to take open 3's and drive the ball when the situation calls for it or the possession is winding down.

If you're expecting him to be "aggressive" and start taking possessions away from Demar, Lamarcus, Rudy, Patty- you don't understand how Pop expects his young players to play. He gives you a role or a job, you do that job well and get better at it, prove you're ready for more, and you get it. With the make up of this team right now there's not a lot of room for him to expand that role.

Let's all just hold our collective breath and wait for a young player to buck that entire reality and start clapping for the ball while it's clear there's 5 offensive players ahead of him in the pecking order. In the times Pop has expanded his role, the 2 games derozan missed, he was tasked with initiating offense and gave us 24 and 25 points. That's just not his job right now every night and it won't be until next year if/when derozan, rudy, and aldridge are no longer taking up the bulk of our possessions. There's one ball and too many iso first players for him to get his at this point.

They’ll swing the ball to him, and he just passes it back. That’s the worst option. The defense is likely still rotating, and he should either shoot, or drive against the grain, and create something for himself or someone else. It’s like he’s afraid of the ball.

[PrimeMinister]

I know what you mean, but we've also seen before that that's not always the case with Pop. Manu was being Manu, and eventually Pop gave in. Keldon showed in the Bubble that he was aggressive attacking the hoops, getting rebounds, loose balls, etc, and now Pop is giving him the green light every night. And I know Lonnie already earned the green light, as he lets them fly sometimes. And that's the problem, sometimes! Lonnie needs to a have the "alpha" mentality. He's the most athletic in there, and yet he's finishing soft, or not even attacking when he has the mismatch. Attack the rim! That's what Spurs fans want to see. He has so much talent.

Keldon has skills that aren't as redundant and an ability to create his own rhythm and energy out of thin air because he's just as unique an individual as you will find. Lonnie needs the ball to get himself going, and in order to get the ball within this system, he needs to already be going and hot if that makes sense. It's a catch 22 that results in the drives he does get looking half baked or hesitant because he's trying not to overstep his role and make a mistake- but needs that opportunity to get himself going in the flow of the offense.

A junkyard dog like Keldon that can fight in the paint with 7 footers doesn't need plays called and Iso run through him. He's content getting the ball with 7 on the shot clock and just exploding to the rim. Lonnie needs to get himself involved more like a Derozan or Rudy Gay, which I just don't see happening this year. The mistakes and hesitation he shows will dissipate, and if it doesn't by this same time next year when he's tasked with creating like our vets do now, it's fair game to call him a low IQ bust or whatever the trogs of this board are waiting to say.

[Dejounte]

:lol

1353750216458067969

https://media.tenor.com/images/f7354b8c66dcf774a0cd75d1806e0d56/tenor.gif

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[exstatic]

Keldon has skills that aren't as redundant and an ability to create his own rhythm and energy out of thin air because he's just as unique an individual as you will find. Lonnie needs the ball to get himself going, and in order to get the ball within this system, he needs to already be going and hot if that makes sense. It's a catch 22 that results in the drives he does get looking half baked or hesitant because he's trying not to overstep his role and make a mistake- but needs that opportunity to get himself going in the flow of the offense.

A junkyard dog like Keldon that can fight in the paint with 7 footers doesn't need plays called and Iso run through him. He's content getting the ball with 7 on the shot clock and just exploding to the rim. Lonnie needs to get himself involved more like a Derozan or Rudy Gay, which I just don't see happening this year. The mistakes and hesitation he shows will dissipate, and if it doesn't by this same time next year when he's tasked with creating like our vets do now, it's fair game to call him a low IQ bust or whatever the trogs of this board are waiting to say.

I don’t think he’s a bust. I guess what I mean is if they need to move one of the young players to make a trade work, I’d see him being at the front of the line. I see him being way behind DJ and White, clearly behind Keldon, and Devin is coming up fast in the rear view mirror.

[Slippy]

Give the player some accountability for once. Tired of treating sucky players like they're the victims. Not saying Lonnie is bad and that the nail is in the coffin, but damn.
.
Playing behind Bryn Forbes and marco belinili .. you going to convienienly forget that. Those guys made mistakes just as much but they never got yanked like Lonnie... something DJ and Devin Vessell didnt have to go through.

Lonnies had a raw deal ... the coach playing him behind deadweight does nothing for your confidence. The overthinking part like many here jhave observed falls on the coach.

[Dejounte]

.
Playing behind Bryn Forbes and marco belinili .. you going to convienienly forget that. Those guys made mistakes just as much but they never got yanked like Lonnie... something DJ and Devin Vessell didnt have to go through.

Lonnies had a raw deal ... the coach playing him behind deadweight does nothing for your confidence. The overthinking part like many here jhave observed falls on the coach.

Nope, didn't forget that at all. Why do you think DJ and Devin didn't go through it? Because from the get go you can tell their mental make-up is different. DJ would have NEVER praised someone on his own team he would be competing for minutes with the way Lonnie just did last night. DJ had his own ego but it was because he was and is extremely confident in his abilities, even to a fault. Vassell was actually coached in college and his bball IQ blows Lonnie's out of the water. That is why he gets minutes. Lonnie's calling card is freak athleticism, streaky shooting, and nothing else... that shouldn't get you minutes as early as DJ & Devin had theirs.

Lonnie got yanked because of Lonnie. It's that simple.

That doesn't have to be seen as a hopeless situation. His journey is unique. The learning curve could be different. But the absolute #1 thing we know now is he truly wasn't ready because of what's going on between his head.

Another thing I noticed last night is DeMar's body language towards Lonnie. Lonnie's like that annoying little brother that you can push around. There are different approaches to different people and it's apparent that tough love is what's needed to force Lonnie to grow.

[Slippy]

Nope, didn't forget that at all. Why do you think DJ and Devin didn't go through it? Because from the get go you can tell their mental make-up is different. DJ would have NEVER praised someone on his own team he would be competing for minutes with the way Lonnie just did last night. DJ had his own ego but it was because he was and is extremely confident in his abilities, even to a fault. Vassell was actually coached in college and his bball IQ blows Lonnie's out of the water. That is why he gets minutes. Lonnie's calling card is freak athleticism, streaky shooting, and nothing else... that shouldn't get you minutes as early as DJ & Devin had theirs.

Lonnie got yanked because of Lonnie. It's that simple. [I]

That doesn't have to be seen as a hopeless situation. His journey is unique. The learning curve could be different. But the absolute #1 thing we know now is he truly wasn't ready because of what's going on between his head.

Another thing I noticed last night is DeMar's body language towards Lonnie. Lonnie's like that annoying little brother that you can push around. There are different approaches to different people and it's apparent that tough love is what's needed to force Lonnie to grow.

Since we keeping it simple.. those deadweight players in Bryn and Marco arent here any more. Pop not forced to play them in front.. the lonnie we see this season we could easily have seen last season and well into his development.

[TDMVPDPOY]

all i can say is he looks lost out there on defense...

[talkspurs]

i seen most folks say he has the POTENTIAL to be an all star and the best of our young guys IF everything clicks. that’s totally different than folks saying he is a good player now. Lol

I don’t think he is overrated but I do think a lot of folks have a lot of hope he can get things to all come together

Isnt it that way if all players? if they put it all together they would be great? I realize people talk about his athleticism but how long before he starts showing something other then a game here and there. I dont get why people are so into him. I hope I ma wrong but I dont see him developing.

[KobesAchilles]

Tbh I could give zero fucks about his defense this year. That comes with playing time and reps. I just want him to be aggressive on offense at all times. Shoot the ball Lonnie. Drive to the hoop and attempt to throw down. Pop ain’t benching you for missed shots homie. Just take them

[Rocalcio]

damn people already turning on waker after begging and begging them to start him.

Dude's in his second full year with the team, he's still raw but is developing. Dudes has developed so much from last year.

stop bitching, and let him develop. maybe after the 3 year than start complaing and bitching, you weakass bitches.

This

[Fireball]

I don't remember anybody said Lonnie is a great offball defender ... his man defense can be solid but his IQ is not the best. Finishing at the rim will improve ... see Westbrook in his early years ... Murray and so on

[FkLA]

Soft.

[John B]

He hit some timely 3’s and drove in a couple of times. But this kid has more. He needs to punish his defender with his quick 1st step. It’s not his fault he was guarding Tatum, but his onball defense has not been the best in general. He needs to fight those screens better. He’s always caught with a ticky tac foul, worst and1’s. I think DW getting back to starting would benefit Lonnie going against 2nd units and having more touches, and get his confidence back.

[Sugus]

This is the most ironic part. Pop is basically being proven right for not playing Lonnie much last year. He probably saw all the beta/ softness issues Lonnie is showing in full display right now and it was a method of trying to instill toughness in him. Sorry, my guy Sugus, I don't think saying Pop 'broke' him has any credibility. At some point, the player has to take some accountability.

Hey, my guy, sorry for a late reply - was on a week-long trip. Didn't catch these last what, 3-4? games of the Spurs, what'd I miss?

Regarding the mention; I don't think Pop is being "proven right" at all, tbh. I haven't much liked his coaching this season, and rotations and role are a good part of it. Lonnie is starting, yet is (I'll make the safe assumption that little has changed in the last week of Spurs ball) not really regarded as an offensive piece to run plays for at all, and has to "get his shot" by driving or CnS most if not every time (since transition points aren't really much of a thing with these Spurs). He's absolutely to blame in part for not looking for his shots and finishing his own opportunities often enough (though I don't think you can say there's no coaching component in the change of ballgame that Lonnie displayed coming into the NBA, and the one he displays now; would you see the same player if you watched his college mixtape and his last game's performance back-to-back?) (Honest question, tbh, I haven't seen the game, maybe he had a good one and shuts me up :lol).

Has Lonnie let me down? Yes, absolutely, I had much higher hopes for him coming into the season; I definitely agree with B1gduff (that's a name I hadn't heard, what's up fella?) though, that people are barking at Lonnie the same way they barked at DJ through his growing pains. The sheer amount of times I've read "IG baller" or some permutation of it on this site, would lend you to believe there'd be dozens of apology threads on him alone, tbh. But no such thing, only posters who're always right.

Anyways - I'd rather Lonnie be out there, playing heavy minutes (and closing games, if Pop doesn't mind, thankyouverymuch), learning and growing while finding his game, than spotted in the bench like Samanic and given the "watch and learn" treatment. In fact, I'm eager to listen: which players exactly had toughness "instilled" into them by being benched excessively when needed by their team, even after a career game, the season after being forced to play in a lower level league than your draftee peers are playing in. I can't seem to think of any, and can't see why it'd be a good coaching strategy for a person like Lonnie, who clearly isn't made of rock and takes things to heart. Matter-of-factly, this "method" of last season definitely hasn't helped his play this season - aren't you making my point?

By the by, I don't at all adhere to the alpha/beta dynamics and whatnot, they're closer to bro-science than they are to legit psychological phenomena, at least the way they're mentioned and talked about on here most times. I don't think Pop would call Lonnie a "beta" at all, and to be frank I doubt anyone would if they knew where he came from and had to fight through to get to the NBA alone :rolleyes but that's beside the point. I think he's got a lot to work on, and I was expecting him to capitalize on opportunities that he hasn't yet (and maybe never will). It doesn't mean I've lost hope on him, or close to it, yet though, that's for Certified SpursTalk Cliffjumpers to go about.

[rankingtear]

Lonnie is getting other looks aside from spot ups, he's second on possesions as a transition ballhandler and has some pick and roll possesions. Granted his pick and roll possesions are significantly lower then the others but Sean pointed it the last game that he does not know how to come off the screen yet that is why he is the worst player in efficiency on the team. Spotups are the only thing he is above average in.

Spotups and running the break are two of his roles right now.

Pop is not running as much set plays anymore because of the system, post ups , handoff, cuts and off screen are reduced significantly.

[Sugus]

Lonnie is getting other looks aside from spot ups, he's second on possesions as a transition ballhandler and has some pick and roll possesions. Granted his pick and roll possesions are significantly lower then the others but Sean pointed it the last game that he does not know how to come off the screen yet that is why he is the worst player in efficiency on the team. Spotups are the only thing he is above average in.

Spotups and running the break are two of his roles right now.

Pop is not running as much set plays anymore because of the system, post ups , handoff, cuts and off screen are reduced significantly.

Got a source for these kinds of stats? I've always been interested but can only look as far as advanced statistics, I've no idea where to get per-possession stats.

I agree with a lot of what you write... And it ties into how I don't like the way Pop has coached Lonnie, and the team in general, these last couple seasons. It's always hilarious to me getting called a sniffer here, when I've always been critical of Pop and his (current) lackadaisical approach to the team's structure. Matter-of-factly, the thing I want for Lonnie to have is much more offensive structure; most of the time, especially this season, he just looks lost, not (only) like he doesn't understand where he's got to be on the court, but in that he doesn't understand what he's supposed to do. Pop & Co have been trying to develop him into a playmaker, and I think it's too far gone to that side now, to the point that Lonnie will refuse open shots at all 3 levels if there's even a sliver of a passing lane available (most times, he creates these passing opportunities out of his sheer athletic talent, which is even more frustrating knowing what he could do). It's come to the point that I ironically think he should get benched, if only just so he's playing with "lower" players in the hierarchical totem pole, and starts finishing plays with scores instead of passes.

It's exactly what I was telling my guy Dejounte. Lonnie came into the league with a scoring profile, that's always been his bread and butter, he was supposed to be really good at finishing at the rim, in the midrange, etc. due to his tools. I look at Lonnie this season, and hardly see that same player... At this point, I can only hope he's struggling since he's forcefully developing a new aspect of his game, and it'll be a matter of "tying it all together" like it's (kind of) worked for DJ and his playmaking. But it's a head-scratcher for sure.

Moreover, I can't understand how you can have Lonnie not learn how to run off-ball and come off screens for three straight NBA seasons, especially when you're literally trying to use him as an off-ball 3&D player. How does this not get addressed in film room sessions time and time again? I find myself asking this almost every game now...

[Sugus]

Hell, just look at this scouting report, first one I got through googling:


… Is able to contort around defenders to finish and draw contact … Accepts contact and is physical enough that it’s difficult to bump him off his cuts … Aggressively looks to score both in half court sets as well as in transition … … Is unafraid of the big moment and will look to create offense when his team needs it most …

Doesn't sound much like 2021 Lonnie, tbh. Video scouting reports are the same thing. Sadly, it's looking like some weaknesses on his draftee profile were spot-on, and might cap his ceiling. I still think he can be the best out of the youngsters (with Mustang Keldon inching closer by the day), but it'll definitely require a serious off-season of working and re-working his game, his weaknesses, his approach. We'll see, either way, way too soon to call for him to be traded (not like it's ever stopped ST though :lol).

[TheGreatYacht]

Fuck this thread for disrespecting Jordan Clarkson 2.0

It’s all mental for him and having a coach that treats you like the step son certainly hasn’t helped him. His first two seasons were stripped from him because Pop preferred Marco and Forbes. This year he’s been getting screamed at worse than even Parker ever had to deal with every time he makes a mistake. With more confidence he’s gonna be a Clarkson caliber player. Hope he gets a second contract here or I fear we might regret it.

Edit: 1190138172274954241

Imagine Pop ever saying shit like this about one of his pets in Mills, Forbes, Marco, Bonner, etc.. I cant even picture it in my head. Who wouldn’t play timid here as a 20-21yr old if Pop had it out for you and couldn’t wait to pull you the minute you made a mistake. Pop sung his praises today (obviously - he had no choice after a perfect game) and I hope he’s not back to his BS next game.

[rankingtear]

He has to be the irrational confidence guy but he is a fragile confidence one.

[ceperez]

Fuck this thread for disrespecting Jordan Clarkson 2.0

It’s all mental for him and having a coach that treats you like the step son certainly hasn’t helped him. His first two seasons were stripped from him because Pop preferred Marco and Forbes. This year he’s been getting screamed at worse than even Parker ever had to deal with every time he makes a mistake. With more confidence he’s gonna be a Clarkson caliber player. Hope he gets a second contract here or I fear we might regret it.

Edit: 1190138172274954241

Imagine Pop ever saying shit like this about one of his pets in Mills, Forbes, Marco, Bonner, etc.. I cant even picture it in my head. Who wouldn’t play timid here as a 20-21yr old if Pop had it out for you and couldn’t wait to pull you the minute you made a mistake. Pop sung his praises today (obviously - he had no choice after a perfect game) and I hope he’s not back to his BS next game.

I just going to have to go back to Donovan Mitchell's comments about Lonnie Walker when he was a rookie. The guy has a killer instinct.

Walker is going to get really good. Right now, he's just learning to play within the system. But when he knows that he's the guy responsible for the offense, he's going to produce.

Future is bright!

[buttsR4rebounding]

The future will not be fulfilled until Pop moves on. The game has passed him by, but unfortunately he has never “got over himself “ enough to even contemplate that.

[RC_Drunkford]

Lonnie is improving as the season progresses. His finishing at the rim has gotten better a lot and he's looking for his midrange more as well. I always said he has the potential to be the main scorer on the team and he might overtake White in the rotation.

[Mr. Body]

The future will not be fulfilled until Pop moves on. The game has passed him by, but unfortunately he has never “got over himself “ enough to even contemplate that.

I was coming in to say how Lonnie's ceiling is really high and he just needs to get there and then I see this crap.

[Mr. Body]

I just going to have to go back to Donovan Mitchell's comments about Lonnie Walker when he was a rookie. The guy has a killer instinct.

Walker is going to get really good. Right now, he's just learning to play within the system. But when he knows that he's the guy responsible for the offense, he's going to produce.

Future is bright!

He's getting there. He's both insanely athletic and has great scoring mechanics. He just needs that Neo in the Matrix moment: "He's starting to believe." Honestly he can totally fuck teams up all by himself, just needs to grow into it.

[PrimeMinister]

Extend Lonnie before next season starts and he breaks out

[BillMc]

He's getting there. He's both insanely athletic and has great scoring mechanics. He just needs that Neo in the Matrix moment: "He's starting to believe." Honestly he can totally fuck teams up all by himself, just needs to grow into it.

I agree completely. And consistancy will come. But need more on defense or his ceiling is....Toronto DeMar with a three point shot? :lol (Which is obviously pretty good.)

[Truth4sale$]

For 2 years, Lonnie has waited. Injuries and Gleague in year 1, then sitting behind Popovich favorite Forbes and Belinelli in year 2, now he has to come off the bench for Derrick White. Lonnie is gaining confidence and improving , lookout for a breakout next year!

[Degoat]

I think it’s time for Lonnie to be given the reigns to the bench squad, none of this Patty or Rudy stuff. I still have doubts Lonnie will be a good two way player but I think he could be a great offensive weapon to have

[Dejounte]

I think it’s time for Lonnie to be given the reigns to the bench squad, none of this Patty or Rudy stuff. I still have doubts Lonnie will be a good two way player but I think he could be a great offensive weapon to have

I have a good feeling it will happen next year. If there's anything positive about Lonnie's overly unselfish personality, it's that he should be willing to do anything for the team, which means he'll be accepting of a high end bench role (if not a starting one).

[The Truth #6]

Random thought:

Great to see Lonnie finishing better around the basket. Regardless, it seems like he would really benefit from adding a Parker-esque teardrop to his game. He gets into the teeth effortlessly but either passes out or (historically) avoids contact for a difficult finish. A teardrop floater could be a great addition.

[exstatic]

He has to be the irrational confidence guy but he is a fragile confidence one.

This.

[RC_Drunkford]

Random thought:

Great to see Lonnie finishing better around the basket. Regardless, it seems like he would really benefit from adding a Parker-esque teardrop to his game. He gets into the teeth effortlessly but either passes out or (historically) avoids contact for a difficult finish. A teardrop floater could be a great addition.

these are things he will add with time I think, he's gotten better finishing with his left which was his main problem

[TheChillFactor]

These threads are hilarious.

Its 10% discussion of Lonnie Walker and 90% you jerkoffs yelling at each other trying to prove you're smarter than the other idiots. Or you have some sort of innate ability to assess a player's "toughness" or "potential".

"I've been defending him for years" or "I always knew he sucked".

JFC go play with yourself, its more productive.

[rankingtear]

^ Defense sucks.

Lonnie vs Bryn ( 19-20 )

5.7 vs 9.4 percentile guarding isolations
26 vs 28.8 percentile guarding pick and roll
14 vs 10 percentile guarding spot ups

[John B]

^ Defense sucks.

Lonnie vs Bryn ( 19-20 )

5.7 vs 9.4 percentile guarding isolations
26 vs 28.8 percentile guarding pick and roll
14 vs 10 percentile guarding spot ups

This. His confidence in scoring is commendable, but he still has way to go in being a defensive stopper that he is very capable of with his freakish athleticism. Keep up the hard work Lonnie!

[Seventyniner]

This. His confidence in scoring is commendable, but he still has way to go in being a defensive stopper that he is very capable of with his freakish athleticism. Keep up the hard work Lonnie!

Forbes's physical limitations put a low ceiling on his defensive potential. Lonnie has athleticism for days and enough height so his defensive ceiling is much higher.

[Truckules]

Random thought:

Great to see Lonnie finishing better around the basket. Regardless, it seems like he would really benefit from adding a Parker-esque teardrop to his game. He gets into the teeth effortlessly but either passes out or (historically) avoids contact for a difficult finish. A teardrop floater could be a great addition.

He needs to try to finish through contact and/or draw fouls. He shoots the second fewest free throws per 100 on the team. If he could improve his free throw rate to average, he could score on the same level that Demar does.

[BillMc]

To me, he's such an unknown even in year 3. Do the Spurs extend him? He could turn into a great bargain and the best young guy on the team or an overpaid player who shows up once in 5 games and never plays D. LW4 could go ether way. And I don't pretend to know. All I can say is he seems like a good guy, so I root for him.

[Ocotillo]

To me, he's such an unknown even in year 3. Do the Spurs extend him? He could turn into a great bargain and the best young guy on the team or an overpaid player who shows up once in 5 games and never plays D. LW4 could go ether way. And I don't pretend to know. All I can say is he seems like a good guy, so I root for him.

I guess this is part of the Spurs way or as it sometimes referred to, Dat Culture!, in that they also look for certain type of personalities. Most of us fans really root for these guys because all of them seem like quality people and I am speaking of the young guys that have been drafted that are part of the team nowadays.

The only guy who has even came close to not fitting this mold is Luka in that there was a comment about him being an ass to waitstaff or something like that and not being a good teammate. Those seem to have fallen by the wayside as well though because he now seems to have a good attitude and is rooting for the rest of the guys.

[The Truth #6]

He needs to try to finish through contact and/or draw fouls. He shoots the second fewest free throws per 100 on the team. If he could improve his free throw rate to average, he could score on the same level that Demar does.

That's still true, but adding another move to his game could still be a huge step up. Finishing through contact can also become charging blindly into defenders. Don't get me wrong, finishing strong should be a goal, too. But it's not clear if he sees it that way or if that's his style, hence my random comment.

[John B]

I guess this is part of the Spurs way or as it sometimes referred to, Dat Culture!, in that they also look for certain type of personalities. Most of us fans really root for these guys because all of them seem like quality people and I am speaking of the young guys that have been drafted that are part of the team nowadays.

The only guy who has even came close to not fitting this mold is Luka in that there was a comment about him being an ass to waitstaff or something like that and not being a good teammate. Those seem to have fallen by the wayside as well though because he now seems to have a good attitude and is rooting for the rest of the guys.

Sometimes it's the nice guys who finish last. Sometimes it takes one to be a jerk to be an alpha. With Lonnie, he's overly unselfish sometimes.
Lonnie is such a hard work and a scholar of the game. I see him always asking Patty questions. It's just a matter of time. I think he's getting there. And when that day comes, I think he has the biggest upside (next to Luka) because of his freakish athleticism. Luka because of his guard-like skills at his size.

[spurraider21]

He has to be the irrational confidence guy but he is a fragile confidence one.
well put.

lack of confidence + fear of contact

[Slippy]

^ Defense sucks.

Lonnie vs Bryn ( 19-20 )

5.7 vs 9.4 percentile guarding isolations
26 vs 28.8 percentile guarding pick and roll
14 vs 10 percentile guarding spot ups

Stats can be misleading.. theres been many observations this season on Lonnie being tasked defending the oppositions best offensive. man on man.

I dont remember Bryn ever been given that job except on a switch.

[C-Dub]

Soft.

[spurraider21]

Oh you mean that one game doesn’t make him a reliable superstar?

[TheGreatYacht]

Showing up after ghosting this the last two nights :lol

He played 9 minutes and in those he was the 4th option on the floor behind Rudy Faggot, Wombat, and Demar.

[Ice009]

How is he supposed to continue playing when ball dominant greedy bitches like Mills, Gay etc. take all the shots?

[rankingtear]

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31113290/nba-trade-deadline-underrated-prospects-thrive-trade

Anfernee Simons (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4351851/anfernee-simons)

6-foot-3 combo guard | No. 24 pick in 2018 | 21.7 years old
If I'm a non-playoff team with a win-now veteran piece I could trade to the Portland Trail Blazers (https://www.espn.com/nba/team/_/name/por/portland-trail-blazers), I'd have my eye on Simons in return. With cornerstones Damian Lillard (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6606/damian-lillard) and CJ McCollum (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2490149/cj-mccollum) occupying the guard spots and Simons not quite the defender or decision-maker he needs to be to play a consistent role in important games, there's an opportunity for development-focused teams to take a swing on the young talent.
NBA Trade Machine (http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine)

Want to forecast where your favorite NBA stars could wind up? Create your own deals with ESPN's Trade Machine (http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine).
Simons is still just 21 years old without a wealth of high-level basketball experience to his name. He came to the NBA straight out of IMG Academy in 2018 and played just 20 games as a rookie. Now halfway through his third season, he's just scratching the surface of what he could become.
Simons is an explosive shot-maker with deep range off the catch and the ability to get shots off the bounce. He's one of only four players in the NBA shooting over 40% from 3 on at least 11 attempts per 40 minutes, joining McCollum, Stephen Curry (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3975/stephen-curry) and Wayne Ellington (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3981/wayne-ellington). It's not easy to find dunk contest winners who have Simons' range, a 6-foot-9 wingspan and a tight handle.
Wired to score right now, Simons could thrive alongside a big playmaker with the potential to be groomed into more of a lead guard as his game matures. He lives off a lot of tough shots and can also stand to improve as a finisher, and he currently ranks dead last among guards in defensive real plus-minus. But if Simons can go to a team that can afford to play him 20 to 25 minutes a night while letting him learn the nuances of the point guard position on the fly, he has a chance to be more than just a bench bucket-getter in the future.



The most similar player skill wise and career path to Lonnie. Even lit the summer league at the same time.

[exstatic]

Same old Lonnie.

[Ice009]

Same old Lonnie.

He could be more aggressive, yes, but what is he supposed to do? Demand court time from Pop? Demand the ball from the vet chuckers?

I don't know, do you think it is all on him, or just partly on him (by being more aggressive)? IMO, even if he was more aggressive, I doubt Mills and Rudy would give him the ball anyway. I really believe those two think they can take any shot they want, whenever they want, and I really don't like that mindset from either those two.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

To be fair to him I think he was hurting out there

[exstatic]

He could be more aggressive, yes, but what is he supposed to do? Demand court time from Pop? Demand the ball from the vet chuckers?

I don't know, do you think it is all on him, or just partly on him (being more aggressive). IMO, even if he was more aggressive, I doubt Mills and Rudy would give him the ball anyway. I really believe those two think they can take any shot they want, whenever they want, and I really don't like that mindset from those two.

He needs to play defense, and look for his shot,when open. It’s really not that complicated. He just kind of floated on both ends last night, and that’ll get you benched. Kind of the story of his career, so far.

[John B]

He needs to play defense, and look for his shot,when open. It’s really not that complicated. He just kind of floated on both ends last night, and that’ll get you benched. Kind of the story of his career, so far.

I think Lonnie was making the turn and was just hurt last night. He was grimacing every time he hit that wrist. It was Vassell/Luka and even Diop who needed more time last night to slow down Hayward/Rozier instead of more dose of Mills/Rudy

[Ocotillo]

Diop is on the injured list, he has a pulled hammy.

[C-Dub]

Pop held Keldon back last season for no reason and it's delayed his growth the same way he going to delay Luka's and Vassell growth. I guess Pop plays the vets more often because they make the most money. That's the only reason Rudy should of been in the game last night over the young guys. On another note, I believe Pop would never challenge a play if not for Becky.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/EvanClosky/status/1374477189165424642?s=19

There's your answer why he didn't play many minutes, drama queens.

[Sugus]

Boy, that fucking sucks for Lonnie. Wrist injuries are a bitch - really slow to heal due to low blood irrigation, and affecting your whole range of motion with your hand, so there's no way to avoid over-stressing the articulation unless you get a full-on cast. And given the fact that he's a professional player, and his team is in a playoff hunt, I imagine the possibilities of him just getting a cast and sitting out 1-2 months like he should, are slim to none.

So he'll try to play through it, like he's already been doing... Best case scenario, he still feels off in his game and has pain from time to time, leading fans and coaches to think he's underperforming (can't wait until ST turns on him again); worst case scenario, he aggravates the injury (or worse, falls down and/or gets hurt in another area of the same hand) and has to be out for significantly more time, with an outside shot of permanent articulation or nerve damage.

Wrist injuries are no joke, fellas. Lonnie definitely won't be himself until the end of the season, maybe start of the next one, if these reports and what he's shown on the court are to be believed. :depressed

[John B]

Boy, that fucking sucks for Lonnie. Wrist injuries are a bitch - really slow to heal due to low blood irrigation, and affecting your whole range of motion with your hand, so there's no way to avoid over-stressing the articulation unless you get a full-on cast. And given the fact that he's a professional player, and his team is in a playoff hunt, I imagine the possibilities of him just getting a cast and sitting out 1-2 months like he should, are slim to none.

So he'll try to play through it, like he's already been doing... Best case scenario, he still feels off in his game and has pain from time to time, leading fans and coaches to think he's underperforming (can't wait until ST turns on him again); worst case scenario, he aggravates the injury (or worse, falls down and/or gets hurt in another area of the same hand) and has to be out for significantly more time, with an outside shot of permanent articulation or nerve damage.

Wrist injuries are no joke, fellas. Lonnie definitely won't be himself until the end of the season, maybe start of the next one, if these reports and what he's shown on the court are to be believed. :depressed

:(:(:(

[Sugus]

:(:(:(

Yeah, I know, and I speak on this from experience - my right hand is in a cast right now, and I've been hearing and reading all about these types of injuries for some time. Fucking. Sucks.

I really wonder, in a scenario where Lonnie misses extended time, what the FO does in regards to his contract extension... Isn't he eligible this season, if I'm not mistaken?

[Seventyniner]

Boy, that fucking sucks for Lonnie. Wrist injuries are a bitch - really slow to heal due to low blood irrigation, and affecting your whole range of motion with your hand, so there's no way to avoid over-stressing the articulation unless you get a full-on cast. And given the fact that he's a professional player, and his team is in a playoff hunt, I imagine the possibilities of him just getting a cast and sitting out 1-2 months like he should, are slim to none.

So he'll try to play through it, like he's already been doing... Best case scenario, he still feels off in his game and has pain from time to time, leading fans and coaches to think he's underperforming (can't wait until ST turns on him again); worst case scenario, he aggravates the injury (or worse, falls down and/or gets hurt in another area of the same hand) and has to be out for significantly more time, with an outside shot of permanent articulation or nerve damage.

Wrist injuries are no joke, fellas. Lonnie definitely won't be himself until the end of the season, maybe start of the next one, if these reports and what he's shown on the court are to be believed. :depressed

LaMelo Ball's wrist injury keeping him out long-term is a data point that supports this theory.

Less Lonnie going forward makes it much less likely the Spurs trade Mills, unless they get offered a great return. Both Lonnie and Mills are best suited for microwave roles off the bench, but I can't see Pop wanting a rotation with neither of those two.

[Sugus]

LaMelo Ball's wrist injury keeping him out long-term is a data point that supports this theory.

Less Lonnie going forward makes it much less likely the Spurs trade Mills, unless they get offered a great return. Both Lonnie and Mills are best suited for microwave roles off the bench, but I can't see Pop wanting a rotation with neither of those two.

Even though Patty is probably the best player asset the Spurs have, he's always been the least likely to get traded of the bunch, IMO. But yeah, Lonnie being out a significant amount of time would make it all the more improbable.

[BillMc]

So, with this lingering wrist injury, Lonnie remains a high upside enigma. Do we extend him? If so, wonder if they coul do it relatively cheap like less than DJ and White? That'd be a lot of money locked in 3 young guards

[RC_Drunkford]

So, with this lingering wrist injury, Lonnie remains a high upside enigma. Do we extend him? If so, wonder if they coul do it relatively cheap like less than DJ and White? That'd be a lot of money locked in 3 young guards

you absolutely keep him. Move DeRozan and make him the main scorer next year. I think they can resign him for less than DJ and White, which could be quite the bargain in the long run. On the other hand he's managed by Klutch Sports so...

[PrimeMinister]

Lonnie's shooting is essential

Lock him up before next year somewhere between poeltl and dejounte money. It will prove itself to be a steal by ASB 2022.

[PhantomDashCam]

Would love to keep him but can foresee scenarios where he goes elsewhere either by trade or FA.
Get well soon Lonnie.

[pad300]

Lonnie's shooting is essential

Lock him up before next year somewhere between poeltl and dejounte money. It will prove itself to be a steal by ASB 2022.

I would happily lock him up, but I'm not paying him more than Poeltl money... He hasn't shown anything like the level of performance Poeltl showed before we re-signed him. From performance, we should be paying him much less than Poeltl (like $5M/year). Lonnie won't sign an early extension for that, so I expect him to hit RFA.

[BackHome]

Depending on who we draft he might be expendable

[PrimeMinister]

I would happily lock him up, but I'm not paying him more than Poeltl money... He hasn't shown anything like the level of performance Poeltl showed before we re-signed him. From performance, we should be paying him much less than Poeltl (like $5M/year). Lonnie won't sign an early extension for that, so I expect him to hit RFA.

you're projecting the talent you expect to see once the contract kicks in

MLE type money for Lonnie Walker AFTER next season... not next season, AFTER next season will prove itself to be a steal.

When he breaks out next year his RFA will be costly.

[pad300]

you're projecting the talent you expect to see once the contract kicks in

MLE type money for Lonnie Walker AFTER next season... not next season, AFTER next season will prove itself to be a steal.

When he breaks out next year his RFA will be costly.

What's stopping Lonnie from breaking out now is his head. You can't pay him for potential; that's at best a 50-50 shot if it ever gets fixed. If you pay him big time, that will reduce the chance of him breaking through that barrier in his head.

[PrimeMinister]

What's stopping Lonnie from breaking out now is his head. You can't pay him for potential; that's at best a 50-50 shot if it ever gets fixed. If you pay him big time, that will reduce the chance of him breaking through that barrier in his head.

10 million AAV is not big time money in today’s nba. It’s what you pay for a solid rotation player and borderline starter.

ive seen more than enough from Lonnie to project that opening night 2022 he is worth that. Best 3 point shooter not named Mills on this team, can shoot off the bounce which is very rare on this roster, scored double digits in the last 12 of 13 games.

since he’s gone down the spacing is obviously broken. Nail him down. If he doesn’t figure it out you have a movable contract tied to a high upside young player you can flip for a pick down the line. The potential upside of him figuring things out and being locked into a bargain deal is the no brainer move.

[exstatic]

LaMelo Ball's wrist injury keeping him out long-term is a data point that supports this theory.

Less Lonnie going forward makes it much less likely the Spurs trade Mills, unless they get offered a great return. Both Lonnie and Mills are best suited for microwave roles off the bench, but I can't see Pop wanting a rotation with neither of those two.

:lol

LaMelo BROKE HIS WRIST.

[RC_Drunkford]

you're projecting the talent you expect to see once the contract kicks in

MLE type money for Lonnie Walker AFTER next season... not next season, AFTER next season will prove itself to be a steal.

When he breaks out next year his RFA will be costly.

exactly this. People should remember how DJ looked last season and how he looks this season. Completely different player and I see Lonnie getting there too, he's already improved his finishing arount the rim

[duncan2150]

exactly this. People should remember how DJ looked last season and how he looks this season. Completely different player and I see Lonnie getting there too, he's already improved his finishing arount the rim

Agree with both of you. He could be cheap next summer and he is progressing.

[mo7888]

you're projecting the talent you expect to see once the contract kicks in

MLE type money for Lonnie Walker AFTER next season... not next season, AFTER next season will prove itself to be a steal.

When he breaks out next year his RFA will be costly.

Absolutely agree with this.... is it a gamble? Yes, but the downside is minimal compared to the upside and we are in a position where we should take calculated gambles on young talent.

[exstatic]

you're projecting the talent you expect to see once the contract kicks in

MLE type money for Lonnie Walker AFTER next season... not next season, AFTER next season will prove itself to be a steal.

When he breaks out next year his RFA will be costly.

His next season contract can’t be changed in any way. While his extension must be done before next season, it won’t kick in until after, like Derrick this year. He signed his extension before the season, but it won’t kick in until next season. He’s still a real value.

It’s a risk on both parties. If you wait for him to ABSOLUTELY proves himself next year by not reaching an extension agreement, he will hit RFA, and you may have to match offers.

[TheGreatYacht]

2-6 since he went down. Second most valuable player on the team behind Dejounte, tbh. The fact that the shittiest eye for talent on the forum, exstatic, hates him makes me all the more sure that he’s that good.

[mo7888]

2-6 since he went down. Second most valuable player on the team behind Dejounte, tbh. The fact that the shittiest eye for talent on the forum, exstatic, hates him makes me all the more sure that he’s that good.

I think I could make an argument that he's more valuable than DJ (although not necessarily better at the moment) because his talent level is higher and therefore his ceiling is higher..

[exstatic]

Lonnie needs to shoot the ball when open, drive to the rim and finish when closed out on, and swing the ball around the horn almost never. He also needs to stop playing Forbes level defense.

It’s kind of weird that two of our highest first rounders, Lonnie and Luka, are the most passive of the six young players. Lonnie has reached less of his ceiling than any of the six. Devin hangs his hat on defense, and is a lot more willing to let it fly than Lonnie, and with good results.

[rjv]

btw, does anyone happen to have an update on our so called "overrated offball guard" ?

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

2-6 since he went down. Second most valuable player on the team behind Dejounte, tbh. The fact that the shittiest eye for talent on the forum, exstatic, hates him makes me all the more sure that he’s that good.

I pointed that out to someone yesterday (about Lonnie, not Ex). Maybe LWIV is more valuable than people thought. The second unit is sh!t right now. Watching Patty chuck threes and everyone else standing around on offense make me realize how much Lonnie's needed to spur the offense.

[FkLA]

:lol at people thinking this soft dude going down is the reason the team went to shit

He wasnt even starting or closing. No consistency. Terrible defensive IQ. I'm not saying he's trash but he's not close to mattering THAT much either.

[TheGreatYacht]

I think I could make an argument that he's more valuable than DJ (although not necessarily better at the moment) because his talent level is higher and therefore his ceiling is higher..
Sadly I don’t believe he will reach his ceiling here by being the 3rd or 4th option every minute he’s on the floor. Exstatic pointed out that him and Luka are the most passive out of the 6 young players... maybe that’s because Pop despises them and will pull them after any small mistake they commit. Murray, White, Keldon, and Vassell all got guaranteed playing time early in their careers. Lonnie was fetching gatorades for Marco and Forbes his first two years and Luka is buried behind Eubanks and Rudy.


I pointed that out to someone yesterday (about Lonnie, not Ex). Maybe LWIV is more valuable than people thought. The second unit is sh!t right now. Watching Patty chuck threes and everyone else standing around on offense make me realize how much Lonnie's needed to spur the offense.
Yup. If the starters get down early, it’s a guaranteed L right now. That second unit isn’t closing leads anytime soon with Patty running a half court offense :lol Teams are letting Patty chuck shit up after screens and it’s working for them

[BackHome]

:lol at people thinking this soft dude going down is the reason the team went to shit

He wasnt even starting or closing. No consistency. Terrible defensive IQ. I'm not saying he's trash but he's not close to mattering THAT much either.

I think we got burned with the White signing and I think we will get burned if we throw money at Walker - I like him as a person but as a basketball he has a long way to go. For starters he is a terrible defender always looking lost and late on switched and only seen a slight improvement - On offense he is super SOFT he doesn't take it to the rim and the few times he does he can't finish and the dude has to be yelled out to shot the wide open 3 ball.

My main concern with White and Walker is they have shown they are injury prone - I always feel Walker it going to tear his knee and White foot is going to fall off for some weird reason.

[mo7888]

Sadly I don’t believe he will reach his ceiling here by being the 3rd or 4th option every minute he’s on the floor. Exstatic pointed out that him and Luka are the most passive out of the 6 young players... maybe that’s because Pop despises them and will pull them after any small mistake they commit. Murray, White, Keldon, and Vassell all got guaranteed playing time early in their careers. Lonnie was fetching gatorades for Marco and Forbes his first two years and Luka is buried behind Eubanks and Rudy.


Yup. If the starters get down early, it’s a guaranteed L right now. That second unit isn’t closing leads anytime soon with Patty running a half court offense :lol Teams are letting Patty chuck shit up after screens and it’s working for them

I agree with that... there's a way you deal with players who aren't born alphas to build them up and get them to reach their potential.... but we don't do that here...or maybe we just don't know how..

[paperboy77]

I pointed that out to someone yesterday (about Lonnie, not Ex). Maybe LWIV is more valuable than people thought. The second unit is sh!t right now. Watching Patty chuck threes and everyone else standing around on offense make me realize how much Lonnie's needed to spur the offense.

I do think Lonnie is a least a bit under appreciated around here. But still... as long as Pop is running things as if Duncan is going to save the day for him we'll continue to stagnate. Pop is in the way of progress.

[Degoat]

Lonnie frustrates the heck out of me but it’s apparent he’s been missed offensively. This teams lack of shooters can’t afford any of them to miss significant time

[Sugus]

I think we got burned with the White signing and I think we will get burned if we throw money at Walker - I like him as a person but as a basketball he has a long way to go. For starters he is a terrible defender always looking lost and late on switched and only seen a slight improvement - On offense he is super SOFT he doesn't take it to the rim and the few times he does he can't finish and the dude has to be yelled out to shot the wide open 3 ball.

My main concern with White and Walker is they have shown they are injury prone - I always feel Walker it going to tear his knee and White foot is going to fall off for some weird reason.

I do think we got burnt a bit on the White signing, but not for the reason you're implying - I don't think he's overpaid at all (he's getting about what most starters on other teams make, and he's definitely starting material, or at least a really good, bench-leading 6th man depending on role), but his contract doesn't fit the timeline of the team, who should be en route to at least a year or two of tanking. Having said that, it's also true that, even if you're tanking, there's a minimum amount of money that has to be spent by teams, and DW's contract plays into that. It's not like we could pay him nothing - and letting him hit RFA wouldn't have been much better IMO, especially after his bubble run.

Overall, it's just really hard to evaluate the pieces on the team right now, because they're so misfit with one another. It's not yet clear to me whether the starting backcourt of Dejounte/White cannot work, or if it's just a matter of DeRozan making most lineups around him unplayable: we saw this last game - Dejounte out should've meant the offense would be better ran and smoother, and DeMar got his 20 points and made the passes he made, White also made a good amount of shots, yet they still got blown out by Cleveland. The starting unit as a whole is trash, we know that much, and I personally think DeMar is trash... Not ready to call it on White yet, at all.

Lonnie's on a similar boat with his ceiling, role, and abilities still mostly unclear, but IMO he's much less of a "burn candidate" than White. His low production means he won't command much money, and an early extension this season is an absolutely good move, considering next season the Spurs might be all-out tanking, and he'll be getting a much bigger role when the vets are (hopefully) shipped out. Lock him up, tbh.

[TheGreatYacht]

Jordan Clarkson 2.0

[John B]

His defense improved so much. And he is attacking with gusto. I hope he continues.

[LakerHater]

https://images2.imgbox.com/95/f9/269B1gFv_o.gif

https://images2.imgbox.com/46/19/3qYGiFtT_o.gif

[John B]

https://images2.imgbox.com/95/f9/269B1gFv_o.gif

https://images2.imgbox.com/46/19/3qYGiFtT_o.gif

Lonnie has been attacking more and not deferring too much. His defense is also getting better. He's winning me back and I hope he continues.

[KobesAchilles]

Yeah I think my biggest issue with Lonnie was the finesse bullshit he tries to do. When you are 6 foot 4 and can jump out of the building, just throw it down. But I am liking what I see from him. No more deferring, shoot when he feels like it, and attack with authority.

[the golden era]

Lonnie has been attacking more and not deferring too much. His defense is also getting better. He's winning me back and I hope he continues.
John, this dude and KJ our our real deal talents. I trust they have never been on the block because PATFO sees enough to know they will be wicked in the next 1-2 years.

[Spurs Homer]

But with 4-5 minutes left in the game...

Lonnie was pulled out and never used again..

even if you want to give DDR the last shot - Lonnie is a much better offensive player/decoy to have in the game than some of the other trash that pop like to close out games with

spurs lucky that they pulled out that win - but how does lonnie get taken out when he was the best player on the floor thruout the game?

[Dejounte]

Props to OP John B for calling it two years ago

let me bump this thread 130 times to let everyone know you were right

cause there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that according to offset formation

and nope, im not fucking around. Im going to bump this thread so it’s never dead

[ismael-robert]

Too soon. Gotta see what he does this year

[KingKev]

Only a matter of time before someone blows a gasket after Walker drops back to back 20pt nights

[exstatic]

Too soon. Gotta see what he does this year

4 years of meh is NOT too soon.

[exstatic]

Only a matter of time before someone blows a gasket after Walker drops back to back 20pt nights
It’ll take him 38 combined shots, and the men he covers will score 60 points.

[cd98]

He plays for the Lakers now, so he's going to be considered a border-line All-Star if he averages 10 points.

[offset formation]

Props to OP John B for calling it two years ago

let me bump this thread 130 times to let everyone know you were right

cause there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that according to offset formation

and nope, im not fucking around. Im going to bump this thread so it’s never dead

that'll show gambit.

[ismael-robert]

4 years of meh is NOT too soon.

Yep gotta wait till 6 even

[exstatic]

Yep gotta wait till 6 even

Way to completely misunderstand the English language.

[John B]

Props to OP John B (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=42719) for calling it two years ago

let me bump this thread 130 times to let everyone know you were right

cause there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that according to offset formation (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=49710)

and nope, im not fucking around. Im going to bump this thread so it’s never dead

Thanks Brodah. I like the guy and continue to root for him.

He’s such a good character in and out of the court, the community, that it’s hard not to root for him.

Any other situation, I’d think Spurs would’ve kept because they had worst.

I know Showtime Lakers will use his highlights to sell tickets at the least. But I hope he can still elevate his game. He was injured somewhat. I hope next season he really ball.

[exstatic]

Thanks Brodah. I like the guy and continue to root for him.

He’s such a good character in and out of the court, the community, that it’s hard not to root for him.

Any other situation, I’d think Spurs would’ve kept because they had worst.

I know Showtime Lakers will use his highlights to sell tickets at the least. But I hope he can still elevate his game. He was injured somewhat. I hope next season he really ball.

Other than his rookie year, he was never injured. Liked him as a person, but couldn’t stand his weak, timid game, and awful defense.

[offset formation]

Other than his rookie year, he was never injured. Liked him as a person, but couldn’t stand his weak, timid game, and awful defense.

Atrocious defense. Just atrocious. I tried really hard at the end to give him the benefit of the doubt his scoring efficiency could offset his defensive liabilities, but that is all it was...wishful (hopeful) thinking. He'll have splash games that will get the fans on their feet and buzz about him, but in the end, he'll return to the mean of his abilities/efforts.

[ismael-robert]

Way to completely misunderstand the English language.

Think it's other way around. I meant yep as in yes 4 years is too soon n that u can't count em out till year 6 so I'll even give him one more year

[exstatic]

Think it's other way around. I meant yep as in yes 4 years is too soon n that u can't count em out till year 6 so I'll even give him one more year

It’s not the other way around. When you’re disagreeing with someone, you don’t start with Yep, you start with Nope. Pretty simple.

[rjv]

Only a matter of time before someone blows a gasket after Walker drops back to back 20pt nights

and possibly because, should that happen, some dumb ass on ESPN will go off and what a steal getting Lonnie turned out to be for the lakers.

[John B]

Other than his rookie year, he was never injured. Liked him as a person, but couldn’t stand his weak, timid game, and awful defense.

I know Spurs motion offense and plays are relatively harder to learn as it historically takes a vet a year to get acclimated, and Lonnie’s bball iq seems not the highest. But sometimes it takes longer for some. I’m hoping it will click for him this year.