Back to guys in women's sports

[CosmicCowboy]

Are you guys really good with that? No one wants to keep them from playing sports, I just think people with male bodies should have to play with the guys.

[Reck]

Dont really care.

That said, this should be an issue that should be up to the sport's body (No pun intended) to decide to deal with. Government has no business dictating who gets to play what and where, imo.

[CosmicCowboy]

Dont really care.

That said, this should be an issue that should be up to the sport's body (No pun intended) to decide to deal with. Government has no business dictating who gets to play what and where, imo.

Biden just did by executive order. And it begins.

[ChumpDumper]

My not caring continues.

[CosmicCowboy]

My not caring continues.

Yea, too late for you. You coulda been a contenda!

[ChumpDumper]

Yea, too late for you. You could been a contenda!I'll give you a pass since you're ill, CC.

Sports just aren't that important beyond some people getting exercise.

Sorry your Trump lost.

[spurraider21]

everything i say in these threads

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289074

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286630


tl;dr - manufactured paranoia/fear, just like the bathroom rape stuff. none of the fears are empirically born out, particularly less so when we talk about youth/school sports, which are what's primarily at issue

[koriwhat]

everything i say in these threads

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289074

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286630


tl;dr - manufactured paranoia/fear, just like the bathroom rape stuff. none of the fears are empirically born out, particularly less so when we talk about youth/school sports, which are what's primarily at issue

Lmao there's women who lost out on being top dog in college, just last year, due to males being allowed to participate in their sports. It's ridiculous and you know it too.

[ducks]

Dont really care.

That said, this should be an issue that should be up to the sport's body (No pun intended) to decide to deal with. Government has no business dictating who gets to play what and where, imo.

Are you ok with your daughter changing or showing in the same bathroom as guys at the same time

[ChumpDumper]

Lmao there's women who lost out on being top dog in college, just last year, due to males being allowed to participate in their sports. It's ridiculous and you know it too.So what?

[ducks]

So what?

If it was your daughter same response ?

[ducks]

So what?

Could mean a scholarship to a school
1 place vs 2

[koriwhat]

Chump stop replying to me already! I don't read your bs because frankly I don't care for weaklings like yourself. GFY and kick rocks bro. You mean absolutely nothing to me whatsoever in this life. You're a straight up pest!

[rmt]

IMO, it's unfair. When these persons start beating the Serena Williams of this world and breaking every female record there is or when your daughter plays some competitive sport is when some of you will notice/care.

[ChumpDumper]

If it was your daughter same response ?
Yes.

Could mean a scholarship to a school
1 place vs 2
Sports.

[ducks]

Yes.

Sports.

Free school
Or debt for years to go to college

[Ef-man]

So what?

ChumpDumper, it is not Joey. Joey turned a new leaf, said he wanted positivity in his life and he did not say God Bless.

Derpcuckular must have hacked his account.

[ChumpDumper]

Free school
Or debt for years to go to collegeThat says more about the cost of education than anything.

I still wouldn't care.

It's sports.

[ducks]

Yes. It's fine.

I still wouldn't care.

It's sports.

So you are ok with your daughter paying thousands of $ just because it was sports

[ChumpDumper]

So you are ok with your daughter paying thousands of $ just because it was sportsYes. just like thousands of others who don't get scholarships.

[hater]

Agree this is just bad for women

But whatever. If they want respect they gonna have to ask for it.

But lol at faggots beating serena. Well a prime serena is more manly, faster and stronger than any potential fag :lol

[spurraider21]

Are you ok with your daughter changing or showing in the same bathroom as guys at the same time
Ducks wants his daughter showering in the same room as this person at the same time

https://cdn.amomama.com/b1bf20869d2737a9fdc636b218aba22728759531576358795. jpg

[spurraider21]

Lmao there's women who lost out on being top dog in college, just last year, due to males being allowed to participate in their sports. It's ridiculous and you know it too.
No, sorry, it’s just not born out in the data

please tell me which school sports are disproportionately dominated by trans athletes

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXHv5o7LrBc

not that much related, but funny

[CosmicCowboy]

No, sorry, it’s just not born out in the data

please tell me which school sports are disproportionately dominated by trans athletes

Miller and Yearwood at the Connecticut state finals track meet. Trans took 1st and 2nd setting a new state record for "women"

[ChumpDumper]

Trump supporters caring about girls' sports a little too hard tbh.

[hater]

Miller and Yearwood at the Connecticut state finals track meet. Trans took 1st and 2nd setting a new state record for "women"

21 will keep asking for examples after many have been named. He wants a lebron type player winning a major league tbqh thats all :lol

[spurraider21]

Miller and Yearwood at the Connecticut state finals track meet. Trans took 1st and 2nd setting a new state record for "women"
Connecticut deviates from the US Track and Olympic rules requiring trans athletes to be on hormone therapy for a fixed period of time. Seems like thats an easy fix. Puberty blockers and hormone therapy bring youth sports to parity, by and large.

College sports already follow those guidelines. I wouldnt have an issue extending them to high school.

[CosmicCowboy]

Connecticut deviates from the US Track and Olympic rules requiring trans athletes to be on hormone therapy for a fixed period of time. Seems like thats an easy fix. Puberty blockers and hormone therapy bring youth sports to parity, by and large.

College sports already follow those guidelines. I wouldnt have an issue extending them to high school.

Once males are out of puberty the physical differences are permanent no matter how much hormone they take.

[CosmicCowboy]

SR21 sure is sensitive about tranny "rights".

[ChumpDumper]

:lol CC trying out some 1950s gay baiting.

[hater]

SR21 sure is sensitive about tranny "rights".

Agreed

Strange

[ducks]

Trump supporters caring about girls' sports a little too hard tbh.

Chump would rather fuck them

[spurraider21]

SR21 sure is sensitive about tranny "rights".
Eh. This is grade school level “ur a fag if you support gay marriage” stuff that I’d expect from derp or dmc

I used to have all the same reservations but read up on the issue extensively in law school (took a sports law elective, where title IX issues made up a significant part of the course). I just know better now. And the will hunting approach of not arguing for fringe issues doesn’t resonate with me, so if nobody else here is going to argue for the affirmative and just play the “i don’t care” card then i have no problem filling in

[FrostKing]

Leftist push women sports and the participants (especially in America) are overwhelmingly liberal. So enjoy.

[ChumpDumper]

Leftist push women sports and the participants (especially in America) are overwhelmingly liberal. So enjoy.:lol you're afraid of women

[FrostKing]

:lol you're afraid of women
Your ideology loves them so much you drove em to sex change

[ElNono]

Maybe they'll finally make them interesting, tbh...

[ChumpDumper]

Your ideology loves them so much you drove em to sex change:lol "ideology"
:lol "drove"

You just ooze insecurity.

[BD24]

I don’t think transgender women should be allowed to compete in sports against women born as women. The physical advantage is too great. It gets really fucked when you start looking at sports with physical contact. Their was a transgender woman fighting in mma for a bit, fucking up people as expected. The bigger orgs said they wouldn’t sign her

[koriwhat]

No, sorry, it’s just not born out in the data

please tell me which school sports are disproportionately dominated by trans athletes

So a couple people lost out on their dreams and you're worried about the whole of academia? One biological woman missing out on their dreams is enough for me to know it's not right.

You're just a SJW and you don't live in reality. I doubt you even know a trans person personally tbh but whatever.

[koriwhat]

Miller and Yearwood at the Connecticut state finals track meet. Trans took 1st and 2nd setting a new state record for "women"

Those are the ones I was referring to but lets let SJW's have the last word right SR21?

[spurraider21]

I don’t think transgender women should be allowed to compete in sports against women born as women. The physical advantage is too great. It gets really fucked when you start looking at sports with physical contact. Their was a transgender woman fighting in mma for a bit, fucking up people as expected. The bigger orgs said they wouldn’t sign her
ur talking about fallon fox? i think the weird part of that story was that it wasnt even revealed until after 2 of her fights that she was trans.

but she fought a bunch of nobody fighters in stupid leagues nobody has heard of. then in her 3rd or 4th fight she got knocked out by some woman. that woman later ended up going to the UFC where she was a mediocre fighter. fallon fox was fighting pro but not in the upper echelons at all

how many non trans fighters rack up wins against nobodies in minor leagues and never compete in big leagues? this isnt noteworthy (or commonplace) enough to point to as a good data point

[spurraider21]

You're just a SJW and you don't live in reality. I doubt you even know a trans person personally tbh but whatever.
lol identity politics

[Millennial_Messiah]

Are you ok with your daughter changing or showing in the same bathroom as guys at the same time

Yes. And they should be too. The dorm halls are 100% gender neutral community bathrooms (including community showers) at MIT for the past decade, and nobody gets raped. People of both sexes shouldn't be scared to be naked in front of the opposite sex nor the same sex. People's bodies are normal and the religious fucks just can't accept it.



please tell me which school sports are disproportionately dominated by trans athletes

Most likely basketball more than anything else. Since there isn't girls' football and other team sports don't really provide a natural advantage of men over women. Remind me, what was its name... Brett Griner-- err, Brittney Griner?

[spurraider21]

Most likely basketball more than anything else. Since there isn't girls' football and other team sports don't really provide a natural advantage of men over women. Remind me, what was its name... Brett Griner-- err, Brittney Griner?
i dont need "most likely"

show me how womens basketball is disproportionately dominated by trans athletes. fearmongering over brittney griner is as retarded as derp's "michael obama" or "serena/venus are actually boys pretending to be girls" conspiracy theories

but on the subject, sports have always had some athletes that stand out above the rest, and have "biological advantages"... whether it be Bo Jackson, LeBron James, Mike Trout, etc., or Lisa Leslie, Brittney Griner in womens basketball, etc. but we dont discuss banning the uber athletes :lol... except when NCAA outlawed dunks because of lew alcindor

unless you see trans athletes representing a disproportionate amount of the uber dominant athletes in a particular sport, there's nothing to discuss

[Millennial_Messiah]

i dont need "most likely"

show me how womens basketball is disproportionately dominated by trans athletes. fearmongering over brittney griner is as retarded as derp's "michael obama" or "serena/venus are actually boys pretending to be girls" conspiracy theories

Michelle is a whole lotta woman and has a rubinesque Megan Thee Stallion type body, height and measurements. But no doubt she's all woman, just like the Williams sisters, who are 5'9" 155... once again, top athletes, but they are women and built like women.

Serena has recently had multiple pregnancies and vaginal deliveries. Michelle has 2 daughters-- they're kind of ugly, but they sure do look like her. They don't look like guys, though.

I don't think 6'8" "Brittney" Griner (likely a hermaphrodite with a dude physique or just a trans-fem in general) is capable of female reproduction.

[spurraider21]

Michelle is a whole lotta woman and has a rubinesque Megan Thee Stallion type body, height and measurements. But no doubt she's all woman, just like the Williams sisters, who are 5'9" 155... once again, top athletes, but they are women and built like women.

Serena has recently had multiple pregnancies and vaginal deliveries. Michelle has 2 daughters-- they're kind of ugly, but they sure do look like her. They don't look like guys, though.

I don't think 6'8" "Brittney" Griner (likely a hermaphrodite with a dude physique or just a trans-fem in general) is capable of female reproduction.
yeah so just fearmongering without anything to back it up :tu

thats the trans-sports argument in a nutshell

[BD24]

ur talking about fallon fox? i think the weird part of that story was that it wasnt even revealed until after 2 of her fights that she was trans.

but she fought a bunch of nobody fighters in stupid leagues nobody has heard of. then in her 3rd or 4th fight she got knocked out by some woman. that woman later ended up going to the UFC where she was a mediocre fighter. fallon fox was fighting pro but not in the upper echelons at all

how many non trans fighters rack up wins against nobodies in minor leagues and never compete in big leagues? this isnt noteworthy (or commonplace) enough to point to as a good data point
I don’t remember the name. There is also plenty of examples in track of trans women beating the dog shit out of natural born women.

I used to do amateur fights. And the Mma gym I trained at was a big jiujitsu gym. I was decent at JJ at best, I would roll with women that were my weight though and multiple belt levels above me and would beat them really easily. The strength, speed, explosiveness advantage is just too great.

Be who you want to be, I’m all for trans women and being who you want. But, you shouldn’t be able to compete in sports against naturally born women. It just isn’t fair.

[daboom1]

https://twitter.com/CBNNews/status/1353137943582568448?s=19

[spurraider21]

I don’t remember the name. There is also plenty of examples in track of trans women beating the dog shit out of natural born women.

I used to do amateur fights. And the Mma gym I trained at was a big jiujitsu gym. I was decent at JJ at best, I would roll with women that were my weight though and multiple belt levels above me and would beat them really easily. The strength, speed, explosiveness advantage is just too great.

Be who you want to be, I’m all for trans women and being who you want. But, you shouldn’t be able to compete in sports against naturally born women. It just isn’t fair.
im assuming its fallon fox because thats the story that grew a lot of traction that joe rogan famously commented on.

and again, i'd need to see the data backing it up. keep in mind, its not like you have undergone surgeries and years worth of hormone therapy that would degrade your muscle mass and bone density, so no offense, but your anecdote isn't analogous.


“Male to female transsexuals have significantly less muscle strength and bone density, and higher fat mass, than males,” says Dr. Eric Vilain, director of the Institute For Society And Genetics at UCLA. Vilain examined Fox’s medical records and wrote a letter supporting her bid to fight as a woman. He also helped the Association of Boxing Commissions write its transgender policy. In order to fight against women, male-to-female athletes who had surgery after puberty must show that “surgical anatomical changes have been completed, including external genitalia and gonadectomy” and that “hormone therapy appropriate for the assigned sex (female) has been administered by a board certified endocrinologist or internist, pediatrician, or D.O. or any other specialist known to have significant knowledge with transsexuals and transgender individuals for a MINIMUM of TWO YEARS after gonadectroy. This is the current understanding of the minimum amount of time necessary to obviate male hormone gender related advantages in sports competition.”

Still, could Fox be stronger than the other women because she used to be a man? “She could be,” says Vilain. “But sports is made up of competitors who, by definition, have advantages for all kinds of genetics reasons. And no one complains about it.” A woman runner may be naturally faster, a woman basketball player taller, than her cohort. To exclude Fox because of her surgery, Vilain argues, would be discriminatory.

Plus, Fox’s low testosterone could offset any advantage. Since Fox has neither testicles nor ovaries, which both produce testosterone, her levels are likely lower than those of her female competitors. Fox says her training partner, who is a woman, is stronger than her, and has more endurance. “So I really have to work on my technique,” Fox says.
https://keepingscore.blogs.time.com/2013/05/24/should-a-former-man-be-able-to-fight-women/

[BD24]

im assuming its fallon fox because thats the story that grew a lot of traction that joe rogan famously commented on.

and again, i'd need to see the data backing it up. keep in mind, its not like you have undergone surgeries and years worth of hormone therapy that would degrade your muscle mass and bone density, so no offense, but your anecdote isn't analogous.


https://keepingscore.blogs.time.com/2013/05/24/should-a-former-man-be-able-to-fight-women/
I’m not saying it is rampant. But in this case, even just one or two people is to many. If it was indeed Fallan fox, she was someone who had never done mma before. At least actual bouts, then all of a sudden when she becomes a woman wants to do mma? That’s some nonsense dog.

anyway. Your a good dude SR. So I’m not gonna go back and forth with you all night on this. It’s clear neither of us are going to change our minds. Have a good night my man

[MultiTroll]

https://www.si.com/.image/t_share/MTc1NTY2MTQyNjYyNzgwMDIz/eids7bqwaai6tny.jpg

[MultiTroll]

I'm channel surfing and came across the Wake game.
Seems kinda chickish.

[MultiTroll]

im assuming its fallon fox because thats the story that grew a lot of traction that joe rogan famously commented on.

and again, i'd need to see the data backing it up. keep in mind, its not like you have undergone surgeries and years worth of hormone therapy that would degrade your muscle mass and bone density, so no offense, but your anecdote isn't analogous.


https://keepingscore.blogs.time.com/2013/05/24/should-a-former-man-be-able-to-fight-women/
Overeducated dumbass uber liveral Dr. Eric Vilain needs a reality check.
https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.55LypdLNZv7cYS63-AkvxgHaFA?pid=Api&rs=1
That a dude. I don't need 40 years of school to know it.

[MultiTroll]

Dood.
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/e9/dd/13/e9dd13e46b609be17a37b692733d3de0--transgender-man-mixed-martial-arts.jpg

[spurraider21]

I’m not saying it is rampant. But in this case, even just one or two people is to many. If it was indeed Fallan fox, she was someone who had never done mma before. At least actual bouts, then all of a sudden when she becomes a woman wants to do mma? That’s some nonsense dog.

anyway. Your a good dude SR. So I’m not gonna go back and forth with you all night on this. It’s clear neither of us are going to change our minds. Have a good night my man
thats not true. fallon fox was fighting well before she fought pro against women. fox had fought at least one amatuer bout against a dude years before she fought against women. i dont know how long fox had trained in mma before any of that.

but the wins she racked up were against relative nobodies tbh... the notion that she came in and crushed competition all the way to the top like brock lesnar is retarded :lol

https://i.gyazo.com/b04565df7fbd8ec2033acfe315e39126.png

[spurraider21]

MultiTroll you can do that with any number of female mma fighters though

amanda nunes

https://www.rollingstone.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/rs-amanda-nunes-1322de38-97e3-4213-9915-1b9499fad3d7.jpg


felicia spencer

https://dmxg5wxfqgb4u.cloudfront.net/styles/card/s3/2020-02/GettyImages-1204234804.jpg?KPdtsfVCMZHwjtGziyLGYrZAJhwZMs3v&itok=j3LqHdUa

[daboom1]

https://i.ibb.co/MBRBgDX/IMG-20210124-002648.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/68ZkFXR/IMG-20210124-002652.jpg

[DMC]

everything i say in these threads

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289074

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286630


tl;dr - manufactured paranoia/fear, just like the bathroom rape stuff. none of the fears are empirically born out, particularly less so when we talk about youth/school sports, which are what's primarily at issue

Your take on this is inconsistent at best. It really boils down to legalese. If the individual meets the dynamic legal definitions to play then there's been no negative effects that reached you personally. Yes I can show you have this stance even if you deny it. No, I don't care who comes along and "likes" your retort.

[DMC]

thats not true. fallon fox was fighting well before she fought pro against women. fox had fought at least one amatuer bout against a dude years before she fought against women. i dont know how long fox had trained in mma before any of that.

but the wins she racked up were against relative nobodies tbh... the notion that she came in and crushed competition all the way to the top like brock lesnar is retarded :lol

https://i.gyazo.com/b04565df7fbd8ec2033acfe315e39126.png

When a man beats the fuck out of a woman, it's normally a relative nobody. Unless the man is Chris Brown or Ray Rice.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Yeah I have a big problem with this, especially in combat sports

[DMC]

SR21 sure is sensitive about tranny "rights".

He's just arguing a point he thinks he can defend/win. Has nothing to do with sensitivity.

[DMC]

i dont need "most likely"

show me how womens basketball is disproportionately dominated by trans athletes. fearmongering over brittney griner is as retarded as derp's "michael obama" or "serena/venus are actually boys pretending to be girls" conspiracy theories

but on the subject, sports have always had some athletes that stand out above the rest, and have "biological advantages"... whether it be Bo Jackson, LeBron James, Mike Trout, etc., or Lisa Leslie, Brittney Griner in womens basketball, etc. but we dont discuss banning the uber athletes :lol... except when NCAA outlawed dunks because of lew alcindor

unless you see trans athletes representing a disproportionate amount of the uber dominant athletes in a particular sport, there's nothing to discuss

This is a poor argument. The dominance of a male in male sports has a long standing history and is part and parcel of the games themselves. Same is true for a female in female sports. You should address the spirit of gender separation in sports and then address crossing over.

How can a female overcome the biological disadvantage of being pitted against a male in track and field? Should Bo Jackson be simply a recipe you can duplicate by crossing over?

[MultiTroll]

https://i.ibb.co/MBRBgDX/IMG-20210124-002648.jpg

Meme worthy :lol
Doesn't even need to be captioned. :lol

[spurraider21]

This is a poor argument. The dominance of a male in male sports has a long standing history and is part and parcel of the games themselves. Same is true for a female in female sports. You should address the spirit of gender separation in sports and then address crossing over.

How can a female overcome the biological disadvantage of being pitted against a male in track and field? Should Bo Jackson be simply a recipe you can duplicate by crossing over?
The point is in all sports we have seen some athletes rise above the rest of their peers to the point where it can be called an unfair biological advantage. If Lisa Leslie was trans people would have thrown a fit. But with the exact same level of physical dominance as a cis woman nobody bats an eye. I’m just pointing out that occasionally dominant athletes don’t break the sport. People argued blacks shouldn’t be allowed to play baseball because of genetic advantages too.

No no that doesn’t mean i think Bo Jackson should simply cross over (the notion that people just wake up one day and “decide” to be trans is completely wrong). I’m ok with sports setting their own standard of how much hormone therapy or surgery should be required before allowing trans women to compete, as long as it’s scientifically/empirically set and not arbitrary.

Seems to work just fine in collegiate and Olympic athletics. Should be even less a concern in youth sports

[spurraider21]

Your take on this is inconsistent at best. It really boils down to legalese. If the individual meets the dynamic legal definitions to play then there's been no negative effects that reached you personally. Yes I can show you have this stance even if you deny it. No, I don't care who comes along and "likes" your retort.
If those legal definitions are rooted in science and empiricism and not arbitrary, then particularly. Why are you butthurt about supposed “likes?” From what i can tell I’m the only person affirmatively arguing this position. Even other posters who would be considered left have straight up said they’re not for it

[DMC]

The point is in all sports we have seen some athletes rise above the rest of their peers to the point where it can be called an unfair biological advantage. If Lisa Leslie was trans people would have thrown a fit. But with the exact same level of physical dominance as a cis woman nobody bats an eye. I’m just pointing out that occasionally dominant athletes don’t break the sport. People argued blacks shouldn’t be allowed to play baseball because of genetic advantages too.

No no that doesn’t mean i think Bo Jackson should simply cross over (the notion that people just wake up one day and “decide” to be trans is completely wrong). I’m ok with sports setting their own standard of how much hormone therapy or surgery should be required before allowing trans women to compete, as long as it’s scientifically/empirically set and not arbitrary.

Seems to work just fine in collegiate and Olympic athletics. Should be even less a concern in youth sports

When you enter a contest you expect someone might be an outlier, there could be a real bad ass, genetically gifted person in the mix. These people are rare and we celebrate them for that reason. You said "Bo Jackson" for a reason, they are extremely rare. But, Bo Jackson wasn't overwhelming to the NFL. He didn't break all the NFL records. He didn't break the MLB records. He was a gifted athlete. If you played HS sports and ran into Bo Jackson, you brag about it today. You don't feel cheated. If you raced in the TDF and ran up against Lance Armstrong, you bitch because you were cheated by a chemically induced advantage that you could not overcome no matter the work you put into it. Male athletes have a massive advantage over female athletes. A low level male athlete, the most under card of the under cards, would beat Holly Holmes to death in the 1st round.

You cannot choose to be Bo Jackson (we'd all be Bo Jackson if we could). You can choose to transition and then compete against far inferior physical abilities (not gifts). It's pretty simple math actually. The average in one group far exceeds the average in the other, so cross contamination yields disruptive consequences. Consider women's sports like the Special Olympics.

But you had no issue saying Lebron James should not be allowed to play in the WNBA because Lebron is a male who identifies as a man. If Lebron identified as a woman, then you'd be OK with it because it meets the legal terms specified in the stipulations. From a competition standpoint, it's the exact same scenario.

The "blacks in sports" comment was a poor analogy. There is no inherent advantage based on race and you said a male should not be able to play on a woman's team (WNBA). Your argument is akin to saying "well they said the sound barrier couldn't be broken but it was" when someone points out the paradoxical effects of FTL travel and how it will never be done. Poor reasoning for one doesn't equate to poor reasoning for all.

[DMC]

If those legal definitions are rooted in science and empiricism and not arbitrary, then particularly. Why are you butthurt about supposed “likes?” From what i can tell I’m the only person affirmatively arguing this position. Even other posters who would be considered left have straight up said they’re not for it

That's a big "if".

Why can Lebron play in the WNBA if he identifies as a woman but not if he identifies as a man? What science and empiricism enables that? The cute "Women's NBA" retort is a cheap escape hatch btw.

You still haven't addressed the spirit of sports being gender separated. Once you do that your arguments should follow that line of reasoning, otherwise it's just random comments.


The ramifications of guys in women's sports is that it's an even bigger disadvantage to be born female.

[FkLA]

This is the stupid thing about being left/right. Some shit is just common sense but because of political affiliation both sides will argue against that common sense. The right does it with science based issues (rona, global warming). The left does it with retarded, SJW issues like this.

Get those dudes their own category. Not sure how they can get satisfaction out of beating girls that are at a biological disadvantage against them anyways.

[FkLA]

https://i.ibb.co/MBRBgDX/IMG-20210124-002648.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/68ZkFXR/IMG-20210124-002652.jpg

:lmao

If you can look at that and be like "yeah that looks like the right thing to do" theres something wrong with you.

[Will Hunting]

This is the stupid thing about being left/right. Some shit is just common sense but because of political affiliation both sides will argue against that common sense. The right does it with science based issues. The left does it with retarded, SJW issues like this.

Get those dudes their own category. Not sure how they can get satisfaction out of beating girls that are at a genetic disadvantage against them anyways.
And this^ is the stupid thing about both sidesism.

One side has gotten too woke and issued an executive order that ignores physical differences between men and women but is largely benign and relates to college sports. No one will ever die from this.

The other side wants to ignore global warming and subsidize the most dirty, inefficient energy sources purely due to corruption and being beholden to oil barons knowing it’s horrible for the planet. Potentially millions die from this.

:cry right and left are both bad :cry

[spurraider21]

That's a big "if".

Why can Lebron play in the WNBA if he identifies as a woman but not if he identifies as a man? What science and empiricism enables that? The cute "Women's NBA" retort is a cheap escape hatch btw.

You still haven't addressed the spirit of sports being gender separated. Once you do that your arguments should follow that line of reasoning, otherwise it's just random comments.


The ramifications of guys in women's sports is that it's an even bigger disadvantage to be born female.
I don’t think the WNBA would or should allow Lebron to join tomorrow if he “chose” to identify as a woman tomorrow. Nobody has ever advocated for that

[spurraider21]

When you enter a contest you expect someone might be an outlier, there could be a real bad ass, genetically gifted person in the mix. These people are rare and we celebrate them for that reason. You said "Bo Jackson" for a reason, they are extremely rare. But, Bo Jackson wasn't overwhelming to the NFL. He didn't break all the NFL records. He didn't break the MLB records. He was a gifted athlete. If you played HS sports and ran into Bo Jackson, you brag about it today. You don't feel cheated. If you raced in the TDF and ran up against Lance Armstrong, you bitch because you were cheated by a chemically induced advantage that you could not overcome no matter the work you put into it. Male athletes have a massive advantage over female athletes. A low level male athlete, the most under card of the under cards, would beat Holly Holmes to death in the 1st round.

You cannot choose to be Bo Jackson (we'd all be Bo Jackson if we could). You can choose to transition and then compete against far inferior physical abilities (not gifts). It's pretty simple math actually. The average in one group far exceeds the average in the other, so cross contamination yields disruptive consequences. Consider women's sports like the Special Olympics.

But you had no issue saying Lebron James should not be allowed to play in the WNBA because Lebron is a male who identifies as a man. If Lebron identified as a woman, then you'd be OK with it because it meets the legal terms specified in the stipulations. From a competition standpoint, it's the exact same scenario.

The "blacks in sports" comment was a poor analogy. There is no inherent advantage based on race and you said a male should not be able to play on a woman's team (WNBA). Your argument is akin to saying "well they said the sound barrier couldn't be broken but it was" when someone points out the paradoxical effects of FTL travel and how it will never be done. Poor reasoning for one doesn't equate to poor reasoning for all.
bo jackson was a dual sport all star who was the best RB in the league but only played part time and had his career cut off early due to injury.

the mere act of identifying as the particular gender does not and should allow allow acces into those leagues, and i have never suggested that. this is a strawman you've gone to a couple of times now.

the blacks in sports analogy is fairly close. people said they shouldnt be allowed to play pro baseball with white people because of perceived genetic advantages that could not be overcome.

ive also acknowledged that the issues being discussed primarily manifest at the extremes (ie highest levels of professional play and olympic level events), whereas the actual topic of the thread and the govt action relates to school sports. so the talk of "lebron joining the wnba" is the bad analogy

[spurraider21]

This is the stupid thing about being left/right. Some shit is just common sense but because of political affiliation both sides will argue against that common sense. The right does it with science based issues (rona, global warming). The left does it with retarded, SJW issues like this.

Get those dudes their own category. Not sure how they can get satisfaction out of beating girls that are at a biological disadvantage against them anyways.
"common sense" is the primary retort of climate change deniers too

hur dur the climate always changes its common sense. we've had warmer periods in the earths history and there were no SUVs back then either! its common sense!

[Monostradamus]

Ducks wants his daughter showering in the same room as this person at the same time

https://cdn.amomama.com/b1bf20869d2737a9fdc636b218aba22728759531576358795. jpg
And pee on her too

[spurraider21]

And pee on her too
they will always dodge this counterpoint.

forcing trans men into bathrooms with women would make everybody involved infinitely more uncomfortable

[rmt]

Agree this is just bad for women

But whatever. If they want respect they gonna have to ask for it.

But lol at faggots beating serena. Well a prime serena is more manly, faster and stronger than any potential fag :lol

Any good college male player can beat Serena. People forget that Boris Becker won Wimbledon, Michael Chang and Mats Wilander won French Open - all at 17 years of age. Nadal, Sampras, Borg all won Grand Slams as teenagers. No woman can match males physically once they reach/pass puberty (I'm talking competitively - not Bobbie Riggs vs Billie Jean King).

Maybe you should compare NBA vs WNBA.

[rmt]

The only reason it hasn't reached skill sports (like tennis and golf) yet is that usually one has to start relatively young to acquire the racquet skills as opposed to sports dependent solely on speed and strength like track. But just give it some time and almost all female records sports will be shattered.

[koriwhat]

lol identity politics

It's not identity politics but common sense to know a biological male is more inclined to beat a woman at whatever sport they're in that requires athleticism. If you're arguing otherwise you're simply a virtue signaling SJW trying to look good to all the other weak SJW's.

[Will Hunting]

I think conservatives have merit on the college sports argument but fuck off on the bathroom argument. If someone wants to commit a sex crime in a wonan’s restroom a rigid law about transgenders in bathrooms isn’t going to be a deterrent.

[spurraider21]

The only reason it hasn't reached skill sports (like tennis and golf) yet is that usually one has to start relatively young to acquire the racquet skills as opposed to sports dependent solely on speed and strength like track. But just give it some time and almost all female records sports will be shattered.
the implication being that trans tennis players didnt play tennis in their early years to acquire racquet skills? you think these people never played sports in their lives, and the day after publicly transitioning become star athletes?

[Will Hunting]

Regardless of whether Biden is right or wrong on the issue, I just don’t think the rights of transgender athletes in college sports is something that should be dealt with by unilateral executive authority. You can either deal with it legislatively or you can go into court and argue it’s a 14th amendment issue, but beyond that I don’t think the president should be deciding this as a self appointed moral authority.

[koriwhat]

you think these people never played sports in their lives, and the day after publicly transitioning become star athletes?

They become star athletes vs biological women is because biological males have biological advantages scientifically. You just don't give a damn about biological women and it shows.

Lets see the best WNBA player vs the best NBA player and see what happens. I bet 100% of us here on ST can guess the outcome of that game.

[koriwhat]

Regardless of whether Biden is right or wrong on the issue, I just don’t think the rights of transgender athletes in college sports is something that should be dealt with by unilateral executive authority. You can either deal with it legislatively or you can go into court and argue it’s a 14th amendment issue, but beyond that I don’t think the president should be deciding this as a self appointed moral authority.

Agreed.

[spurraider21]

They become star athletes vs biological women is because biological males have biological advantages scientifically. You just don't give a damn about biological women and it shows.

Lets see the best WNBA player vs the best NBA player and see what happens. I bet 100% of us here on ST can guess the outcome of that game.
except this isn't what happens when trans athletes participate. they dont just hop over on a random day and play as though nothing happened. not only does this come from the same misconception of people "becoming" gay, but it also ignores the HRT requirements. besides, people who transition during or before puberty dont get those same extent of advantages you speak of (and reminder, this issue is actually limited to school sports, not pro sports of grown adults). so then you are really focusing on the fringe of the fringe

[spurraider21]

Regardless of whether Biden is right or wrong on the issue, I just don’t think the rights of transgender athletes in college sports is something that should be dealt with by unilateral executive authority. You can either deal with it legislatively or you can go into court and argue it’s a 14th amendment issue, but beyond that I don’t think the president should be deciding this as a self appointed moral authority.
title IX is already there legislatively which is what the EO is derived from. its not about "self appointed moral authority"

[Adam Lambert]

4 pages on this bullshit topic and it's the second thread created in the last week on the subject.

There will be more posts on this topic than actual student athletes impacted in the next 4 years. Book it.

[koriwhat]

except this isn't what happens when trans athletes participate. they dont just hop over on a random day and play as though nothing happened. not only does this come from the same misconception of people "becoming" gay, but it also ignores the HRT requirements. besides, people who transition during or before puberty dont get those same extent of advantages you speak of (and reminder, this issue is actually limited to school sports, not pro sports of grown adults). so then you are really focusing on the fringe of the fringe

You know why it's not a conversation amongst pro sports? It's because those leagues know it would hurt their bottom line mixing males with females and thus separate leagues for gender.

You know what I don't see, except a very small sample size, is biological women in biological male sports. Why's that SR21?

[Monostradamus]

I think conservatives have merit on the college sports argument but fuck off on the bathroom argument. If someone wants to commit a sex crime in a wonan’s restroom a rigid law about transgenders in bathrooms isn’t going to be a deterrent.
Pete Davidson of all people actually made some good points about all this tbh :lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqDlVtgeYnk

[spurraider21]

You know why it's not a conversation amongst pro sports? It's because those leagues know it would hurt their bottom line mixing males with females and thus separate leagues for gender.
like the olympics which allows it?


You know what I don't see, except a very small sample size, is biological women in biological male sports. Why's that SR21?
its about as small as the inverse. those stories just arent sensationalized by the media.

i guess except that one wrestler who transitioned to a boy, but retarded state laws literally forced him to wrestle against women when he requested to fight against boys

[koriwhat]

like the olympics which allows it?
..
i guess except that one wrestler who transitioned to a boy, but retarded state laws literally forced him to wrestle against women when he requested to fight against boys

I don't watch the olympics so I have no idea what you're referencing tbh.

As for the biological woman trying to wrestle biological men; why is the inverse allowed?

[Monostradamus]

You know why it's not a conversation amongst pro sports? It's because those leagues know it would hurt their bottom line mixing males with females and thus separate leagues for gender.

You know what I don't see, except a very small sample size, is biological women in biological male sports. Why's that SR21?

The fack are you talking about, this was one of the biggest sports stories of the past few months :lol
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/28/sports/sarah-fuller-woman-kicker-vanderbilt.html

dumbass crackhead :lol

[spurraider21]

I don't watch the olympics so I have no idea what you're referencing tbh.

As for the biological woman trying to wrestle biological men; why is the inverse allowed?
olympics allows trans athletes to participate among their gender of identification as long as they meet certain guidelines relating to HRT, or in some cases, surgery

if they've been on HRT for a sufficient period of time, the advantages tend to dissipate, particularly among youth

[DMC]

So who's standing at the bathroom door making sure some dude in a dress is actually a transgender? I don't care who uses what restroom, but how would anyone stop them otherwise?

[DMC]

4 pages on this bullshit topic and it's the second thread created in the last week on the subject.

There will be more posts on this topic than actual student athletes impacted in the next 4 years. Book it.

Why do you post in a thread you consider bullshit?

[DMC]

I don’t think the WNBA would or should allow Lebron to join tomorrow if he “chose” to identify as a woman tomorrow. Nobody has ever advocated for that

Why shouldn't they? Please explain.

[Monostradamus]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0W6C05UYAAeb49.jpg

[spurraider21]

Why shouldn't they? Please explain.
i would imagine like every other sport, they would have some requirements for x amount of time of HRT, certain levels of hormones, potentially surgery, etc.

i dont deny that leagues bifurcate men and women for a reason.

i dont know how many times you want to go around the same circle. want to ask me a few more times about my sexual preferences? was that doing it for you?

[Adam Lambert]

Why do you post in a thread you consider bullshit?

To express my opinion that the topic is bullshit.

[DMC]

bo jackson was a dual sport all star who was the best RB in the league but only played part time and had his career cut off early due to injury.

:lol I know who Bo Jackson was, I didn't need to Google it. He was during my time. This tidbit doesn't get any closer to addressing the issue.

The object of competition isn't to make everyone completely equal. It's to give everyone the same starting point. Even though plenty athletes have genetic advantages, you cannot simply mitigate those by fiat, however by allowing males to compete against females, you've created an entire category of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. There's simply no way the female can be on the same level, which is why the two are segregated in almost all sports now (even billiards). Despite what you said before about comradery, it's not about that. It's about the spirit of competition. As unfair as you think it would be to deny a transgender person access to competition from the gender of their choice, it's even more unfair to the girls who don't have a choice.


the mere act of identifying as the particular gender does not and should allow allow acces into those leagues, and i have never suggested that. this is a strawman you've gone to a couple of times now.

This cannot stand on its own. You need to explain the difference between identifying as a girl and being a girl. Then you need to explain why it matters that a girl competes against a girl. You've avoided this.



the blacks in sports analogy is fairly close. people said they shouldnt be allowed to play pro baseball with white people because of perceived genetic advantages that could not be overcome.No, like Will Hunting said, it's a slippery slope. It's desperate and indicates you're either trolling or out of material.

You said yourself in this very response that Lebron should not be allowed to play in the WNBA. Does he have "perceived genetic advantages"? You seem to be for and against this at the same time.


ive also acknowledged that the issues being discussed primarily manifest at the extremes (ie highest levels of professional play and olympic level events), whereas the actual topic of the thread and the govt action relates to school sports. so the talk of "lebron joining the wnba" is the bad analogy
Why is that an extreme example? You keep inferring premises without establishing any.

The WNBA is the female version of the NBA, so the best in the NBA moving to the WNBA would be akin to the best in HS sports moving to female HS sports. If the worst can, why can't the best?

[spurraider21]

This cannot stand on its own. You need to explain the difference between identifying as a girl and being a girl. Then you need to explain why it matters that a girl competes against a girl. You've avoided this.
you want me to explain the difference between gender and sex?


No, like Will Hunting said, it's a slippery slope. It's desperate and indicates you're either trolling or out of material.

You said yourself in this very response that Lebron should not be allowed to play in the WNBA. Does he have "perceived genetic advantages"? You seem to be for and against this at the same time.
how is this a slippery slope? im saying theres a difference between lebron today and lebron who has undergone years of HRT and potentially surgeries which would deplete testosterone levels


Why is that an extreme example? You keep inferring premises without establishing any.
why is "lebron joins the WNBA tomorrow" an extreme example? :lmao

[koriwhat]

SR21 just hates women/girls and want them more oppressed or he's just a big SJW virtue signaling... Actually he's both.

[DMC]

you want me to explain the difference between gender and sex?

So you're saying as long as Lebron identifies as a girl, he meets the gender requirement to compete in the WNBA.

Why can't you answer simple questions without using misleading comments?


how is this a slippery slope? im saying theres a difference between lebron today and lebron who has undergone years of HRT and potentially surgeries which would deplete testosterone levels
You haven't explained why the HRT matters if it's a gender identity issue only.

Can you give an example of a female who underwent HRT and dominated male competitions afterward? If not, why do you think that is?



why is "lebron joins the WNBA tomorrow" an extreme example? :lmao

Yes. Please explain.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol so much straw.

[DMC]

SR21 just hates women/girls and want them more oppressed or he's just a big SJW virtue signaling... Actually he's both.

Not every position argued here reflects personal belief.

[spurraider21]

So you're saying as long as Lebron identifies as a girl, he meets the gender requirement to compete in the WNBA.

Why can't you answer simple questions without using misleading comments?

You haven't explained why the HRT matters if it's a gender identity issue only.

Can you give an example of a female who underwent HRT and dominated male competitions afterward? If not, why do you think that is?


Yes. Please explain.
im bored. these are all strawman arguments that i've explained multiple times. in 3 threads now.

[spurraider21]

Not every position argued here reflects personal belief.
no, this is my personal belief particularly as it relates to student athletes.

wasnt before, mostly because of the same questions that others have raised here. read up a lot more on the issue. became better informed. opinion changed.

[DMC]

im bored. these are all strawman arguments that i've explained multiple times. in 3 threads now.


no, this is my personal belief particularly as it relates to student athletes.

wasnt before, mostly because of the same questions that others have raised here. read up a lot more on the issue. became better informed. opinion changed.

The answer is “Transgender MTF athletes LIKELY retain some degree of biological advantage even after lowering testosterone levels”. Studies in transwomen pretty universally show that lean mass and strength decline by about 5% after 12 months of lowering testosterone. The initial typical advantage in mass and strength that biological males enjoy over females is between 20% and 100% (depending on task), and the composite outcome of mass and strength may be even greater (think kinetic energy = mass x velocity squared).

Why? Because in running events, if the normal male-vs-female performance difference is 10%, then a male who is say, 7% slower than the very best males (sub-elite in other words), but who loses only 3 to 4% after reassignment to the female category, would now be at the level of elite females. In strength based events, particularly involving the upper body, this starting difference is even larger – weight lifting world records are 25% to 35% better in men than women even when you correct for mass, which means that even 20% reductions in strength with T reduction would not remove the male advantage.

In effect, if the policy doesn’t remove the advantage, it could ‘flood’ the female sports division with new arrivals, who enter the group by virtue of a physiological advantage that is unavailable to those already in the group.

On other hand, proponents of allowing transgender MTF athletes to participate under the testosterone-lowering guidelines are saying that the performance ‘adjustment’ or impairment after reducing testosterone is large enough that this never happens. Their position is that a biological male will lose enough of their “androgen-derived advantages” and enter women’s sport at the same place they left men’s sport.

If this were true, then there’d be little to fret about, at least for performance, fairness and safety. It would mean that a 12 month period of compliance would be enough to ensure fairness, and that no biological male ever enters women’s sport with a theoretically insurmountable advantage. It is, according to its proponents, the current situation, as evidenced by the lack of dominant MTF elite athletes.

And so in summary (and simplification), these are the two models:

Lowering T, as current policy requires, completely removes the male performance advantage, and so should allow participation of transgender MTF athletes without any opposition (blue corner). Many in this group have also argued that being compelled to lower testosterone creates a health problem for them, and should not be required (in varying degrees and with varying ‘fervour’, as we shall see)
Lowering T, as current policy requires, only partly removes the male performance advantage, and therefore MTF athletes should not be allowed to compete because they will still have insurmountable advantages and the integrity of women’s sport may be destroyed (red corner). This would be particularly the case in sports where stature and size matter, but is also because once you’ve had the benefit of testosterone during development, it can never be fully taken away.


https://sportsscientists.com/2019/03/on-transgender-athletes-and-performance-advantages/

[koriwhat]

Not every position argued here reflects personal belief.

I agree... I believe SR21 panders to the rest of ST who he thinks is comprised of the same SJW weirdos on Twitter.

[DMC]

Or as I said, do away with categories and let everyone compete. See who wins, and don't categorize afterward.

[rmt]

Tennis HAS been through this with Renee Richards in the 70s when she was ranked as high as #20 (Feb '79 at age 45) after transitioning at age 41. Richards has since expressed ambivalence about her legacy, and came to believe her past as a man provided her with advantages over her competitors, saying "Having lived for the past 30 years, I know if I'd had surgery at the age of 22, and then at 24 went on the tour, no genetic woman in the world would have been able to come close to me. And so I've reconsidered my opinion."[21][22]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren%C3%A9e_Richards

[rmt]

And this is someone who coached Martina Navratilova (at that time considered the ultimate in fitness) to 2 Wimbledon championships.

Navratilova (LGBTQ herself) has come out against transgenders in women's tennis and gotten BLASTED for it.

[spurraider21]

damn so tennis has been allowing this for decades and one person at one point ranked top 25 or whatever and that is destroying women's sports? :lol

[rmt]

damn so tennis has been allowing this for decades and one person at one point ranked top 25 or whatever and that is destroying women's sports? :lol

She was an ophthalmologist (by career) and 41 years old when she did the surgery - meaning not a career tennis player or young when she did it. She was no threat to the top of the women's game (women's tennis wasn't very deep then) at that age. Did you totally disregard her quote? The threat is not when old, slow mid lifers are transitioning - the threat is when same/similar aged persons with male bodies/physical advantages do it.

[rmt]

55 year old Bobby Riggs defeated Margaret Court (#1 in the world at the time - current (not Serena) holder of the most singles and overall Grand Slam titles) 6-2, 6-1 in the 1st Battle of the Sexes. In the VERY highly publicized 2nd Battle of the Sexes, Billie Jean King (age 29) beat Riggs in 3 sets.

Nineteen years later, a third "Battle of the Sexes" match, entitled Battle of Champions, was played in 1992.[37] Outdoors at Caesars Palace in Paradise, Nevada, it matched 40 year-old Jimmy Connors and Martina Navratilova, age 35. A pay-per-view telecast,[37][40] the match was played on Friday night, September 25, under hybrid rules to make it more competitive; Connors was allowed only one serve per point, and Navratilova was allowed to hit into half of the doubles alleys.[37][40] Score was still 7-5, 6-2 Connors.

Women cannot compete on an even field with men in tennis - the physical advantage is too great.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Sexes_(tennis)

[spurraider21]

55 year old Bobby Riggs defeated Margaret Court (#1 in the world at the time - current (not Serena) holder of the most singles and overall Grand Slam titles) 6-2, 6-1 in the 1st Battle of the Sexes. In the VERY highly publicized 2nd Battle of the Sexes, Billie Jean King (age 29) beat Riggs in 3 sets.

Nineteen years later, a third "Battle of the Sexes" match, entitled Battle of Champions, was played in 1992.[37] Outdoors at Caesars Palace in Paradise, Nevada, it matched 40 year-old Jimmy Connors and Martina Navratilova, age 35. A pay-per-view telecast,[37][40] the match was played on Friday night, September 25, under hybrid rules to make it more competitive; Connors was allowed only one serve per point, and Navratilova was allowed to hit into half of the doubles alleys.[37][40] Score was still 7-5, 6-2 Connors.

Women cannot compete on an even field with men in tennis - the physical advantage is too great.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Sexes_(tennis)
wow. people who were not on HRT or ever got surgeries.

[rmt]

wow. people who were not on HRT or ever got surgeries.

Weak sauce - like talk of Pollo Tropical.

[spurraider21]

She was an ophthalmologist (by career) and 41 years old when she did the surgery - meaning not a career tennis player or young when she did it. She was no threat to the top of the women's game (women's tennis wasn't very deep then) at that age. Did you totally disregard her quote? The threat is not when old, slow mid lifers are transitioning - the threat is when same/similar aged persons with male bodies/physical advantages do it.
facts dont care about her feelings

[spurraider21]

Weak sauce - like talk of Pollo Tropical.
tennis has been allowing trans athletes for decades and it hasn't led to the eradication of women's tennis. seems to prove my point

the olympics allow trans athletes to participate. we arent seeing hordes of trans women dominating the olympics either. its going to be ok. especially at the youth levels

[Th'Pusher]

tennis has been allowing trans athletes for decades and it hasn't led to the eradication of women's tennis. seems to prove my point

the olympics allow trans athletes to participate. we arent seeing hordes of trans women dominating the olympics either. its going to be ok. especially at the youth levels

Glad Biden did this early in his presidency. Gives a good three years for the emotion and hysteria to wear off.

[rmt]

tennis has been allowing trans athletes for decades and it hasn't led to the eradication of women's tennis. seems to prove my point

the olympics allow trans athletes to participate. we arent seeing hordes of trans women dominating the olympics either. its going to be ok. especially at the youth levels

You are ignoring not only the widespread acceptance of LGBQT (not so back in the 70s) but the AMOUNT of money in sports TODAY. It wasn't until 1981 that Navratilova came out as bisexual or Billie Jean King:

In 1971, she began an intimate relationship with her secretary, Marilyn Barnett (born Marilyn Kathryn McRae on January 28, 1948). Marilyn Barnett had been living rent-free in Billie Jean and Larry King's Malibu house. In 1979, the Kings asked Barnett to leave their house, but Barnett did not want to. Refusing to leave the house, Barnett threatened to leak records and receipts between the two that she had kept over the years. These receipts included letters from Billie Jean to Marilyn Barnett, credit card receipts, and paid bills. [178] It was not until, when the attempts to leak these records failed, that Marilyn Barnett sued the Kings in 1981 for half their income and the Malibu house where she had been staying. [179] Billie Jean King did not know of the lawsuit until a reporter from the Los Angeles Times asked her about it. Billie Jean King did not want to confirm this, so she continued to deny the relationship. [180] Billie Jean acknowledged the relationship when it became public in a May 1981 palimony lawsuit filed by Barnett, making Billie Jean the first prominent professional female to come out. Feeling she could not admit to the extent of the relationship, Billie Jean publicly called it a fling and a mistake.[20] She remained married to Larry.[20] The lawsuit caused Billie Jean to lose an estimated $2 million in endorsements and forced her to prolong her tennis career to pay attorneys.

As I mentioned earlier, it'll take time to affect skill sports - not so in strength and speed sports like track. Just like it'll take time to reach Olympic level - not so at high school level.

[DMC]

damn so tennis has been allowing this for decades and one person at one point ranked top 25 or whatever and that is destroying women's sports? :lol

Speaking of strawman. You're some hard headed motherfuckers here.

[Th'Pusher]

You are ignoring not only the widespread acceptance of LGBQT (not so back in the 70s) but the AMOUNT of money in sports TODAY. It wasn't until 1981 that Navratilova came out as bisexual or Billie Jean King:

In 1971, she began an intimate relationship with her secretary, Marilyn Barnett (born Marilyn Kathryn McRae on January 28, 1948). Marilyn Barnett had been living rent-free in Billie Jean and Larry King's Malibu house. In 1979, the Kings asked Barnett to leave their house, but Barnett did not want to. Refusing to leave the house, Barnett threatened to leak records and receipts between the two that she had kept over the years. These receipts included letters from Billie Jean to Marilyn Barnett, credit card receipts, and paid bills. [178] It was not until, when the attempts to leak these records failed, that Marilyn Barnett sued the Kings in 1981 for half their income and the Malibu house where she had been staying. [179] Billie Jean King did not know of the lawsuit until a reporter from the Los Angeles Times asked her about it. Billie Jean King did not want to confirm this, so she continued to deny the relationship. [180] Billie Jean acknowledged the relationship when it became public in a May 1981 palimony lawsuit filed by Barnett, making Billie Jean the first prominent professional female to come out. Feeling she could not admit to the extent of the relationship, Billie Jean publicly called it a fling and a mistake.[20] She remained married to Larry.[20] The lawsuit caused Billie Jean to lose an estimated $2 million in endorsements and forced her to prolong her tennis career to pay attorneys.

As I mentioned earlier, it'll take time to affect skill sports - not so in strength and speed sports like track. Just like it'll take time to reach Olympic level - not so at high school level.

None of this helps your emotional uninformed argument.

[spurraider21]

Speaking of strawman. You're some hard headed motherfuckers here.
its not a strawman at all. people have been calling this move the end of women's sports

[spurraider21]

Biden just did by executive order. And it begins.
Title IX is legislation. this order only impacts school sports.

[DMC]

Title IX is legislation. this order only impacts school sports.

So unimportant.

[spurraider21]

So unimportant.
yeah. we should stick to important topics like you grilling me on sexual hypotheticals