What I fear about how we play Vassel

[duncan2k5]

I fear he is being pigeonholed into being a 3D player when he was showing himself as a more versatile player in college... Since he has been drafted, he rarely dribbles the ball... Rarely drives... He is just a spot up shooter on offense...

I think that has to do with several things:

1. Pop can sometimes be rigid in his way of coaching and how he sees certain players as fitting roles as opposed to having them have some on court freedom to develop their game... Some examples are Hedo... Came from being a spot up shooter here to the very next year damn near being an mvp candidate with how he was leading the Magic and took them to the finals as the main ballhandler in their offense... Also the infamous Bam snob from the olympics... So he may be coaching Devin as a 3D player when he isn't, and Devin probably feels like he doesn't have the clout to break a play or do something in game for fear of being pulled.

2. He plays with some emotional players that are somewhat ball dominant... LMA and DDR tend to give off negative body language when they aren't getting the ball, and Rudy and Patty can be black holes on offense... So he may feel like he doesn't have the right to take things into his own hands and settles for shooting spot ups when they decide to pass it to him



Just my opinion... I may be completely wrong and he may be a Danny Green 2.0... but I would like to see him given the chance to show what he can do... Learn and grow his game... Have him run a pick and roll every now and then... Have him set up a play at least once or twice a game... Don't just have him stand in the corner... Have him actually do the things u would like to see him do

[Dex]

Danny Green spent 3 years in the NBA, GLeague, and overseas before becoming the Danny Green we loved, and he was still just a role player.

Let the kid walk before he runs. He needs to focus on what he does well first, and then add to his game. Giving him the keys to run offense or be a playmaker would put way too much pressure on a guy who had no summer league, a shortened preseason, and has played all of 16 games in the NBA.

There are things worth complaining about with PATFO, but player development shouldn't be one of them.

[widowmaker]

Chip needs to work him into being able to knock down some shots when called everything else will come after that.

[RC_Drunkford]

he's an offball player, he should shoot spot up jump shots. Everything else will likely come along next season

[BacktoBasics]

This is a non issue. Just ask that fuck head Kawhi

[B1gduff]

idk if you've actually watched a game, But vasell has done more than just being a 3 and D guy. He's had a mid range game, a bit inconsitence but it's there. Last few games I've seen him in the ball up.

All of those skills still need development.

[DAF86]

Vassell isn't anything more than a 3-D player, tbh. He has the potential to be an elite 3-D player though.

[cd98]

They will mold his offensive game once they get an offseason with him. Note that they didn't turn Kawhi into a 3 and D player. I think they see Vassell as a player with skill to handle the ball and create, but he will need to grow into a larger offensive role.

[paperboy77]

This is a non issue. Just ask that fuck head Kawhi

Unfortunately... that's right.

[DJR210]

You should fear more important shit like where you'll find your next source of clean drinking water

[duncan2k5]

I don't think we develop rookies as well as u guys think we do... This isn't 10 years ago... Other teams play their rookies and allow them to make mistakes and grow their games (similar to how pop actually played parker and Ginobili as rookies)... If parker and gino were drafted by today's pop, they wouldn't start... They may not even play... Especially being late round draft picks... The way we deal with young players now is different... I know ppl love bashing me here, but we ALL have complained about it... Let's not pretend we haven't just because I'm the one saying it...

There are teams better than us that play their rookies significant minutes and allow them to make mistakes without fear of being benched or g-leagued... You can't assume a player will develop... Even the answers on here are telling... Some think he is just a 3D guy, some think he can develop into more... I say give him the chance to show more than just spotting up... Especially when he has shown that in college .. we are dumbing him down... He is a lottery pick on a bad team for goodness sakes

[Dejounte]

If you were watching the games, you'd see he has poor ball handling skills. He needs an offseason to work on his dribbling. I've pointed it out in game threads out how he gets trapped often because he has poor ball handling.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

idk if you've actually watched a game, But vasell has done more than just being a 3 and D guy. He's had a mid range game, a bit inconsitence but it's there. Last few games I've seen him in the ball up.

All of those skills still need development.


exactly

Vassell has mostly been an off the ball player on offense with the bench crew (which is actually the strength of this team) and is doing a great job. He has definitely showed though, that he can put the ball on the deck and hit pull up jumpers or penetrate the defense a little bit. He fits perfectly in his role with the gunners we already have on this team while showing in spurts that he can do more on offense.

I think he is going to get better overall and I like how he is playing right now

[Degoat]

The fact that pop trusts him out there should tell people what they think of him, at the very worst he’s gonna be a great 3&D player, anything above that is gravy! I think he has a ton of potential

[Atl Spur]

Vassell isn't anything more than a 3-D player, tbh. He has the potential to be an elite 3-D player though.

Way to early to make that proclamation in my opinion!

[Atl Spur]

I don't think we develop rookies as well as u guys think we do... This isn't 10 years ago... Other teams play their rookies and allow them to make mistakes and grow their games (similar to how pop actually played parker and Ginobili as rookies)... If parker and gino were drafted by today's pop, they wouldn't start... They may not even play... Especially being late round draft picks... The way we deal with young players now is different... I know ppl love bashing me here, but we ALL have complained about it... Let's not pretend we haven't just because I'm the one saying it...

There are teams better than us that play their rookies significant minutes and allow them to make mistakes without fear of being benched or g-leagued... You can't assume a player will develop... Even the answers on here are telling... Some think he is just a 3D guy, some think he can develop into more... I say give him the chance to show more than just spotting up... Especially when he has shown that in college .. we are dumbing him down... He is a lottery pick on a bad team for goodness sakes

Are you really picking our development of players hill to die on??? Bro get a clue...... everyone knows we develop players just as well if not better than ALL organizations. Please stop.....

[GAustex]

He shows glimpses of being able to put the ball on the floor and being effective. He needs time. Things may come fast to him since he seems smart.

[DAF86]

Way to early to make that proclamation in my opinion!

He wasn't really much more than a 3 and D player on college, I don't know why he wouod be anything more in the NBA. That's not a knock on him though. I really like him and I think he has the potential to be a championship level piece.

[Mr. Body]

I dunno, I'm of the weird philosophy that players need to get used to the league and acclimated to their team sets and surroundings before too much is thrown on them.

[rankingtear]

They did try to expand Danny's game, some fan's might have noticed this. Driving and pick and roll's was never Vassell game in college, one or two dribble pullups is and we have seen plenty of that recently.

[duncan2k5]

They did try to expand Danny's game, some fan's might have noticed this. Driving and pick and roll's was never Vassell game in college, one or two dribble pullups is and we have seen plenty of that recently.

"Plenty"? Nah

[duncan2k5]

Are you really picking our development of players hill to die on??? Bro get a clue...... everyone knows we develop players just as well if not better than ALL organizations. Please stop.....

Ur living in the past, bro...the past several years we ALL have been complaining about how the young guys are treated...this isn't 20 years ago when he would actually play rookies for significant roles...if Covid wasn't happening and white was healthy, we all know Vassel wouldn't be playing the minutes he is playing now

[duncan2k5]

I dunno, I'm of the weird philosophy that players need to get used to the league and acclimated to their team sets and surroundings before too much is thrown on them.

You can do that and run a pick and roll every now and then...no one is saying he needs to carry the offense

[Truth4sale$]

Alot of good points here. Can we all agree on 2 things:
1. Its better to see him play over Marco Belinelli
2. It is better to see our top rookie grow on the NBA floor ad opposed to just Gleague time such as Luca Samanic.

I think Vasell continues to improve by each game. His defense is already great, worthy of All rookie second team. The veterans on this team are looking for their shots, likely because they are free agents and want to show their value. That will make it hard for him to truly expand his game this year but next year we could see a significant jump, especially of 2 of the 4 older veterans leave.

[TheChillFactor]

did you watch how Kawhi developed AT ALL?

[KobesAchilles]

The main fear comes when White comes back. What becomes his role then? Bc somebody is going to have to have their minutes cut eventually. Maybe not immediately bc Pop may slowly integrate Derrick, but still

[rah88sa]

He doesn't really dribble and drive because that's not in his skill set right now. Do you know anything about this guy? He's very skinny and isn't confident in his handle.

I'm happy with his development so far in that he's shown some flashes of creating his own midrange shot and usually attempts one or two a game. He still has to learn how to walk before he can run and they're developing him the same way they did #2.

[Degoat]

What’s impressive too, even though he doesn’t do much play making yet, he’s had zero turnovers in 11 straight games

[MannyIsGod]

I don't think we develop rookies as well as u guys think we do... This isn't 10 years ago... Other teams play their rookies and allow them to make mistakes and grow their games (similar to how pop actually played parker and Ginobili as rookies)... If parker and gino were drafted by today's pop, they wouldn't start... They may not even play... Especially being late round draft picks... The way we deal with young players now is different... I know ppl love bashing me here, but we ALL have complained about it... Let's not pretend we haven't just because I'm the one saying it...

There are teams better than us that play their rookies significant minutes and allow them to make mistakes without fear of being benched or g-leagued... You can't assume a player will develop... Even the answers on here are telling... Some think he is just a 3D guy, some think he can develop into more... I say give him the chance to show more than just spotting up... Especially when he has shown that in college .. we are dumbing him down... He is a lottery pick on a bad team for goodness sakes

Of all the things to bitch about, developing young players? Are you fucking seriously bitching about this?

[Seventyniner]

Of all the things to bitch about, developing young players? Are you fucking seriously bitching about this?

Bitches gonna bitch.

[RC_Drunkford]

The main fear comes when White comes back. What becomes his role then? Bc somebody is going to have to have their minutes cut eventually. Maybe not immediately bc Pop may slowly integrate Derrick, but still

that's why it would be ideal to trade Mills for a 1st round pick

[mo7888]

that's why it would be ideal to trade Mills for a 1st round pick

Or DDR... I'd like to see more games without ddr iso's every possession down the stretch.... force the young guys to step up more...

[look_at_g_shred]

Honestly, Gay probably nets us the best asset. Contenders could use him off the bench. Frees up minutes for Vassel too

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Another Duncan2K5 thread bashing the FO and Pop's coaching choices. Shocking. Line up all of the 2020 draft picks and look at their respective roles and I think you'll see that Vassell is getting integrated better, and has a larger role, than most.

[spurspl]

the only fear bout vassell is that he aint get enough minutes to fully release his potential

[TD 21]

Honestly, Gay probably nets us the best asset. Contenders could use him off the bench. Frees up minutes for Vassel too

Gay is a 4 and Vassel is a 2.5.

When healthy, I expect him to be competing with Walker for backup wing/9th man minutes.

[RC_Drunkford]

Mills is easily replaceable by White. You can't replace Rudy, he's the only real 4 on this roster (not counting Lyles and Samanic). If they get offered a pick for him they should pull the trigger, but right now trading Mills makes the most sense

[Atl Spur]

Ur living in the past, bro...the past several years we ALL have been complaining about how the young guys are treated...this isn't 20 years ago when he would actually play rookies for significant roles...if Covid wasn't happening and white was healthy, we all know Vassel wouldn't be playing the minutes he is playing now

Yikes! I’m truly speechless.....

[mo7888]

Mills is easily replaceable by White. You can't replace Rudy, he's the only real 4 on this roster (not counting Lyles and Samanic). If they get offered a pick for him they should pull the trigger, but right now trading Mills makes the most sense

I agree with you on Mills making the most sense and he probably brings back a better asset than Gay would. If we move Gay we need to be committed to throwing Luka out there and letting him sink or swim. Im in favor of that too because I'd like to see with my own eyes if he has anything to his game and if he does then great....if not we can move on from him sooner rather than later.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

- TP couldn’t finish in the paint
- Manu was too predictable running the break
- Timmy let his emotions get to him too often
- Blair didn’t know how to order at Whataburger

—- Deep thoughts by duncan2k5——-

[duncan2k5]

He doesn't really dribble and drive because that's not in his skill set right now. Do you know anything about this guy? He's very skinny and isn't confident in his handle.

I'm happy with his development so far in that he's shown some flashes of creating his own midrange shot and usually attempts one or two a game. He still has to learn how to walk before he can run and they're developing him the same way they did #2.

KD was also skinny and didn't have great handle when he came in...you don't get better at something by never doing it...that's how u gimp urself

[duncan2k5]

Or DDR... I'd like to see more games without ddr iso's every possession down the stretch.... force the young guys to step up more...

See? Someone gets it

[duncan2k5]

Another Duncan2K5 thread bashing the FO and Pop's coaching choices. Shocking. Line up all of the 2020 draft picks and look at their respective roles and I think you'll see that Vassell is getting integrated better, and has a larger role, than most.

So in ur opinion,the past couple years,the FO and Pop deserves no criticism?

[duncan2k5]

the only fear bout vassell is that he aint get enough minutes to fully release his potential
This too...I think he should start...but because I said it, ppl will disagree

[duncan2k5]

- TP couldn’t finish in the paint
- Manu was too predictable running the break
- Timmy let his emotions get to him too often
- Blair didn’t know how to order at Whataburger

—- Deep thoughts by duncan2k5——-

Since we are making things up:

-Derozan is the best player we ever had

-Pop has never done anything wrong

-im secure with my self worth as a human being

(Deep thoughts by Allan Rowe vs Wade)

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

So in ur opinion,the past couple years,the FO and Pop deserves no criticism?

No, I think they are certainly not above criticism, and could have done many things better. But all you do is criticize, and it gets old sometimes.

I've always pointed out dumb FO moves...the Gasol contract being high on that list. Losing Bertans to try and sign a player who doesn't fit the Spurs' M.O. is another fine example of the FO not at its finest. My only issue with your posts are that they're all critical, even when criticism is uncalled for, and usually lack any merit or weight. You can look at every team in the association, and none of them have been better run for the last 23 years than the Spurs have been. I think that needs to be recognized as well.

We need to turn that frown upside down.

[XDT76]

No, I think they are certainly not above criticism, and could have done many things better. But all you do is criticize, and it gets old sometimes.

I've always pointed out dumb FO moves...the Gasol contract being high on that list. Losing Bertans to try and sign a player who doesn't fit the Spurs' M.O. is another fine example of the FO not at its finest. My only issue with your posts are that they're all critical, even when criticism is uncalled for, and usually lack any merit or weight. You can look at every team in the association, and none of them have been better run for the last 23 years than the Spurs have been. I think that needs to be recognized as well.

We need to turn that frown upside down.

You know there are just some posters here not worth discussing issues with. According to them, If a player is not playing enough it's FO fault for not developing them, if the player plays and shows he is not ready it's FO fault for destroying his confidence, when a player finally comes good it got nothing to do with FO it's only the hard work of the player. Probably if FO drafts a generational talent they would say the FO are just lucky.

[duncan2k5]

No, I think they are certainly not above criticism, and could have done many things better. But all you do is criticize, and it gets old sometimes.

I've always pointed out dumb FO moves...the Gasol contract being high on that list. Losing Bertans to try and sign a player who doesn't fit the Spurs' M.O. is another fine example of the FO not at its finest. My only issue with your posts are that they're all critical, even when criticism is uncalled for, and usually lack any merit or weight. You can look at every team in the association, and none of them have been better run for the last 23 years than the Spurs have been. I think that needs to be recognized as well.

We need to turn that frown upside down.

I'm not only critical...it's just that when I praise a player, ppl usually disagree, so they hate my post anyway...I've been praising Murray and White for years...been praising Kawhi when he was here...

Being great for a long time doesn't mean you can't get criticized... Especially when it seems like bad decisions are becoming more of a trend than a mistake...

And yes, I constantly hate on LMA and DDR... u have no idea how passionate I am as a Spurs fan...so I don't want to normalize mediocrity... That's how you end up like the raptors... I want us to realize we are in a bad situation and make moves to change it ASAP... not remain in that bad situation because we are trying to be nice to players (that don't deserve it)

I always had joy watching my Spurs, win or lose... But lately with DeMar and LMA ball, it's no fun... Because I know our ceiling is a first round exit, and it feels like I'm the only one who can see it... Everyone else is trying to look for the good parts about their game and hold out on hope that 2 career losers in their 30s will somehow get it together... And I'm alone screaming for everyone to wake up and I'm being attacked... My only joy is from watching Murray and the other youth grow, and I don't think they can reach their true potential with those 2 guys on the team

[duncan2k5]

You know there are just some posters here not worth discussing issues with. According to them, If a player is not playing enough it's FO fault for not developing them, if the player plays and shows he is not ready it's FO fault for destroying his confidence, when a player finally comes good it got nothing to do with FO it's only the hard work of the player. Probably if FO drafts a generational talent they would say the FO are just lucky.

Show me where I said they were lucky for drafting a generational talent...and I've never said a player not playing enough is due to the FO not developing them... Also show me where I said if a player that I blamed the FO for not developing suddenly becomes good... Then show me where I said the FO don't deserve credit in that scenario...

See, it's easy to make someone look bad when u make up stuff... Ur not even pointing out legitimate things to hate me about... U just make things up... That makes it seem personal

[rankingtear]

Still struggling from non 3 attempts , 1-9 last 7 games. Addressing this first might be the most logical development step before any half court initiating skills.

[UnWantedTheory]

I'm not only critical...it's just that when I praise a player, ppl usually disagree, so they hate my post anyway...I've been praising Murray and White for years...been praising Kawhi when he was here...

Being great for a long time doesn't mean you can't get criticized... Especially when it seems like bad decisions are becoming more of a trend than a mistake...

And yes, I constantly hate on LMA and DDR... u have no idea how passionate I am as a Spurs fan...so I don't want to normalize mediocrity... That's how you end up like the raptors... I want us to realize we are in a bad situation and make moves to change it ASAP... not remain in that bad situation because we are trying to be nice to players (that don't deserve it)

I always had joy watching my Spurs, win or lose... But lately with DeMar and LMA ball, it's no fun... Because I know our ceiling is a first round exit, and it feels like I'm the only one who can see it... Everyone else is trying to look for the good parts about their game and hold out on hope that 2 career losers in their 30s will somehow get it together... And I'm alone screaming for everyone to wake up and I'm being attacked... My only joy is from watching Murray and the other youth grow, and I don't think they can reach their true potential with those 2 guys on the team
Nah, you use to be something of a normal poster that people could have a conversation with back when. Somewhere within the last few years you became a whiny cunt who constantly criticizes and often irrationally so. I have always hoped you were trolling, because if not, it seems you took a deep dive and need a therapist bruh.

[XDT76]

Show me where I said they were lucky for drafting a generational talent...and I've never said a player not playing enough is due to the FO not developing them... Also show me where I said if a player that I blamed the FO for not developing suddenly becomes good... Then show me where I said the FO don't deserve credit in that scenario...

See, it's easy to make someone look bad when u make up stuff... Ur not even pointing out legitimate things to hate me about... U just make things up... That makes it seem personal

Show me where I quote you? There lots of post in the forum stating Lonnie was destroyed bcos Pop pulled him whenever he made a mistake, Pop is lucky to draft and be carried by Duncan and Kawhi's success is purely of his own. You can go look around, talking about being personal you quoted me where the message is not address to you.

[Fireball]

I have no problem how Vassell is used now. Running plays for him is a stretch and not necessary. He does not seem bashful and takes nearly every shot when he is open - but from 2 point range he is not having much success. Lets see how Pop reacts when White returns.

[rah88sa]

KD was also skinny and didn't have great handle when he came in...you don't get better at something by never doing it...that's how u gimp urself

The Spurs development is so successful because they don't skip steps. You show you can do a small task before being given a larger one. Letting guys just go out and keep forcing stuff they aren't good at is how they develop bad habits, but I don't expect you to know what a guys isn't good at when you can't even spell his name right...

You also shouldn't compare Vassell to KD.

[duncan2k5]

Nah, you use to be something of a normal poster that people could have a conversation with back when. Somewhere within the last few years you became a whiny cunt who constantly criticizes and often irrationally so. I have always hoped you were trolling, because if not, it seems you took a deep dive and need a therapist bruh.

How is me saying DeRozan and Lamarcus won't take us anywhere (while giving reasons) trolling or irrational?

[duncan2k5]

The Spurs development is so successful because they don't skip steps. You show you can do a small task before being given a larger one. Letting guys just go out and keep forcing stuff they aren't good at is how they develop bad habits, but I don't expect you to know what a guys isn't good at when you can't even spell his name right...

You also shouldn't compare Vassell to KD.

What player did we develop in that way? All our best players in the last 20 years all either started or had significant roles...Parker started after a handful of games .... that sounds like "skipping steps" to me .. Kawhi was starting in his rookie year... The only players that never planned out were those that were constantly sent to the d-league, or constantly benched... This notion that we put all our rookies through the same process is a fallacy... That's something recent...