Game Thread: Spurs vs Celtics - Jan 27th 2021 - 7:30PM CT

[John B]

take out Patty please.. put Vassell for defense

[YoungbuckMurray]

Get vassell on for defense please

[TheGreatYacht]

Here comes the DeMar ISO :lol
FSSW crew celebrating like they just won the finals after Demar finally made a shot in the clutch :lmao

[spurs1990]

That Derozan Max contact thread is going to blow up after this win

[duncan2k5]

Because demar cried in a jack in the box parking lot all night after he found out he was traded :lol

Holy shit I forgot about that! LMFAO!!! That nickname is funny as fuck!

[John B]

And 1??

[r0drig0lac]

dpoy Murray

[GreekSpursfan]

And 1 what? fucking refs man

[NASpurs]

Holy shit Murray :wow

[John B]

That wasn't a foul

[ace3g]

not really a foul? backing up and hands were up, lol

[NASpurs]

HOW WAS THAT AND ONE?!?! Fuck the refs :lmao

[YoungbuckMurray]

I felt like I heard the whistle before Tatum even got to poetl

[Leetonidas]

Should have challenged that call

[SpurPadre]

Goddamn it Poetl

[John B]

Take out chokers who cannot hit FT's

[TheGreatYacht]

Poeltl did not foul him. Wow that's BS

[duncan2k5]

Murray!!

[Uriel]

Murray the Klaw.

[GreekSpursfan]

Can't complain tbh because we got one call earlier for Demar.

[Robz4000]

:lol that sequence. Spurs will miss a freethrow here and Boston will tie it.

[NASpurs]

Can you even challenge that and one? It's such fucking bullshit.

[Dverde]

Even the Celtics guys know that foul was a joke

[NASpurs]

Who's going to clank the incoming free throws?

[John B]

Let's go Rudy!

[twincam]

Foul?

[r0drig0lac]

win!!!!

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

Horrible foul call on Jacob. Smh

[John B]

Spurs win!!!!

[Joseph Kony]

Good win Spurs :tu

[GreekSpursfan]

Saltics hold that L

[John B]

:flag::flag::flag:

[Robz4000]

Great win :tu

[MultiTroll]

:lol CIA Retard again allows a trey instead of forcing a 2.

[John B]

.02 not enough to make a shot after the free throw

[TheGreatYacht]

Thank god Smart missed that wide open corner 3, holy shit

[GreekSpursfan]

:flag:

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

Demar almost blew it but Rudy calmly drilled the free throws.

[NASpurs]

I thought the refs were going to give the Cs 3 bullshit free throws to tie the game

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

What a great win and learning experience for the young guys.

[poopbox]

That steal by Dejounte is one of the best you will ever see :wow

Our lil instagram baller growing up into a star level nba player right before our eyes :cry

[lonrot]

:flag:

[John B]

Great win, finally.

[PhantomDashCam]

https://media.giphy.com/media/1gVlC7SNYhpOtTLXlf/giphy.gif

[Arcadian]

:lol Spurs are fucking lucky to get away with not fouling up 3

[Manu-of-steel]

Spurs won! Yeah baby!

[NASpurs]

LMA is going to ask a trade after this :lol

[ace3g]

Final


1
2
3
4
T


BOS
30
17
37
22
106


SA
25
36
21
28
110



https://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/nba/500/sa.png&h=100&w=100Spurs



Starters
MIN
FG
3PT
FT
OREB
DREB
REB
AST
STL
BLK
TO
PF
+/-
PTS


D. DeRozan (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3978/demar-derozan)SF
34
7-8
2-2
5-6
0
5
5
7
0
0
3
1
+3
21


K. Johnson (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4395723/keldon-johnson)SF
31
9-14
0-1
0-0
3
7
10
1
1
0
2
2
+8
18


L. Aldridge (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2983/lamarcus-aldridge)C
28
8-14
3-6
1-4
2
1
3
2
0
2
0
1
+9
20


D. Murray (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3907497/dejounte-murray)PG
36
5-11
0-2
1-2
0
11
11
4
1
0
3
1
-4
11


L. Walker IV (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4277890/lonnie-walker-iv)SG
31
6-9
2-4
0-0
0
1
1
1
0
0
2
3
+5
14


Bench
MIN
FG
3PT
FT
OREB
DREB
REB
AST
STL
BLK
TO
PF
+/-
PTS


R. Gay (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3005/rudy-gay)SF
17
2-8
0-5
3-4
0
3
3
1
0
0
0
1
-1
7


J. Poeltl (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3134908/jakob-poeltl)C
19
2-2
0-0
0-0
3
6
9
4
1
2
3
5
-8
4


P. Mills (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4004/patty-mills)PG
27
6-11
0-4
0-0
0
1
1
2
2
0
3
1
+15
12


D. Vassell (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4395630/devin-vassell)SG
15
1-5
1-4
0-0
1
2
3
0
0
0
3
1
-7
3


T. Lyles (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3136196/trey-lyles)PF
DNP-COACH'S DECISION


D. Eubanks (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3914285/drew-eubanks)PF
DNP-COACH'S DECISION


K. Bates-Diop (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3136779/keita-bates-diop)SF
DNP-COACH'S DECISION


T. Jones (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4395626/tre-jones)PG
DNP-COACH'S DECISION


TEAM

46-82
8-28
10-16
9
37
46
22
5
4
19
16

110




56.1%
28.6%
62.5%

[Degoat]

Easy W!!! Pop shitting on ST per usual lol

[Mr. Body]

Good win. Celtics a paper tiger in the east gaining wins against their common schlubs. Not terrible, of course, and beating them is nice -- especially since their fans are complete dickwads.

Tons of turnovers tonight.

[Degoat]

LMA is going to ask a trade after this :lol

It was surprising Pop didnt play him more lmao

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Great win!!

[Uriel]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/b4cc7e1f4e1ab0800171d493e1091a7f/tenor.gif?itemid=5982484

[ace3g]

Spurs for the time being bump up to 6th seed.

[Fusternino]

I see LMA is making more shots. What's up with that? Focus, getting to his spot, legs?

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

NOT THIS GUY!!

[SPURt]

Shooting <30% from three, giving up a wide open 3 to tie, and still winning? It wasn’t pretty but I’ll take it

[spurs1990]

Who gets more credit for the win. DeRozan with the go-ahead jumper or Murray with the steal to go up 4

[SpurPadre]

Beat another decent team but still not sure winning these games is in our best interest long term. We need a superstar player and our best chance for that is in the lottery.

[Dejounte]

I was in love with the defense for most of the night (obviously not the 3rd quarter). It was the Spurs of old. It was STIFLING.

[PhantomDashCam]

There’s no way Spurs win this game last year.

This one had it all - the best and worst of what this team has to offer.

[KobesAchilles]

BIG win!! Get em! But seriously, this was the kinda ball I was expecting us to play last year. It sucks that Pop wasted a year playing Marco and Bryn

[Uriel]

Spurs beating the Celtics at full strength despite not having their best player :wow :wow :wow

[Dejounte]

Holding all four of the Celtics' best players to 40% FG...... WOW

[sananspursfan21]

This is one of those games where there are hundreds of critiques, but so much heart and grit you just throw your hands up and celebrate getting the win. Go Spurs Go!

[Degoat]

I am confused to why pop keeps putting Lonnie on to the other teams best player each game lol

[BatManu20]

Good win tbh. Anytime you have 20 turnovers and still win the game, that’s impressive. Gotta clean it up though. D was impressive most the night too.

[Dejounte]

LOVE THIS CLIP

https://twitter.com/TheTyJager/status/1354639202718261250

[Dex]

Beat another decent team but still not sure winning these games is in our best interest long term. We need a superstar player and our best chance for that is in the lottery.

Spurs tanking doesn't guarantee them a superstar by any means. Tim Duncan ain't walking through those doors.

Right now, a win is a win and you should just enjoy it.

[r0drig0lac]

There’s no way Spurs win this game last year.

This one had it all - the best and worst of what this team has to offer.

the Forbes/Pop factor

[Dejounte]

I am confused to why pop keeps putting Lonnie on to the other teams best player each game lol

Seems this is the reason why:

https://twitter.com/RealTomPetrini/status/1353060200945606660

Put your weakest defender on the best creator so that overhelp can come.

[NASpurs]

I am confused to why pop keeps putting Lonnie on to the other teams best player each game lol

Probably to keep him engaged in the game so he won't just "float" on offense.

[Blackhaus]

Shooting <30% from three, giving up a wide open 3 to tie, and still winning? It wasn’t pretty but I’ll take it

it was a Marcus smart 3 with Murray in the corner of his eye. At least defrozen made the correct rotation and didn’t let Tatum shoot that

[SpurPadre]

There’s no way Spurs win this game last year.

This one had it all - the best and worst of what this team has to offer.

Eh...we've lost games in similar ways we lost last season, tbh. Losing Forbes and Marco is great and all but this team is still a car wreck to watch with some of the same problems we've had before. It's good to see Keldon, Murray and the other young guys continue to evolve, though.

[NASpurs]

Seems this is the reason why:

https://twitter.com/RealTomPetrini/status/1353060200945606660

Put your weakest defender on the best creator so that overhelp can come.

So it's bait? :lol

[The Truth #6]

Sweet win. A real rollercoaster. I’ll take it.

[r0drig0lac]

I am confused to why pop keeps putting Lonnie on to the other teams best player each game lol

it might make some sense in guards (although Murray and White are definitely better defenders), but in uber athletic wings 6'7 '' 6'8 "it's just stupid.

[FkLA]

KJ is a fucking alpha. This dudes gonna take down Nephew one day, imho.

[Blackhaus]

Eh...we've lost games in similar ways we lost last season, tbh. Losing Forbes and Marco is great and all but this team is still a car wreck to watch with some of the same problems we've had before. It's good to see Keldon, Murray and the other young guys continue to evolve, though.

I’ll watch this “car wreck” all season compared to the last couple of years. Tbh

[Light]

Lost the turnover battle 19-10 and still won. The defense stepped up this game.

[Dejounte]

So it's bait? :lol

Basically... it makes sense. Also explains why we drafted Vassell.

Help defense > Man to man defense in this era.

[SpurPadre]

Spurs tanking doesn't guarantee them a superstar by any means. Tim Duncan ain't walking through those doors.

Right now, a win is a win and you should just enjoy it.

Too soon to make that determination.

[Blackhaus]

Pop is trying to get Lonnie engaged, it’s not that much of a mystery

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/JeffGSpursZone/status/1354641770777354242

[FkLA]

Pop is trying to get Lonnie engaged, it’s not that much of a mystery

Not sure it's working. Lonnie is kind of a bitch.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/JeffGSpursZone/status/1354640921346920448

[r0drig0lac]

https://twitter.com/YoungNBA/status/1354641482498633728

[offset formation]

LMA is going to ask a trade after this :lol

He was on the bench cheering them on and having a laugh about Rudy's stretching. So no.

[cd021]

That steal by Dejounte is one of the best you will ever see :wow

Our lil instagram baller growing up into a star level nba player right before our eyes :cry
Great play but weird game Murray. A lot of driving and kicking without much results, what's the point if he didn't even bother to look for the rim and wasn't necessarily getting teammates open shots.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/YoungNBA/status/1354641482498633728

Kawhi Leonardesque

[Dejounte]

Great play but weird game Murray. A lot of driving and kicking without much results, what's the point if he didn't even bother to look for the rim and wasn't necessarily getting teammates open shots.

Sometimes it draws the defense in. The zone was making it ineffective. Murray had a solid game, but I agree could have been better.

[Blackhaus]

Shhh, don’t say anything positive on this board. Spur padre may hear you.

[offset formation]

Poeltl did not foul him. Wow that's BS

Yeah he reached in. Didn't think so at first either till they showed that replay.

[Blackhaus]

No he didnt

[Degoat]

I’m so excited to get DWhite back! the Dj/White/Keldon lineup should feast

[Blackhaus]

Tatum getting super star calls, as he should. Dudes a beast

[Budkin]

Huge win. This team showed us something tonight.

[PhantomDashCam]

Eh...we've lost games in similar ways we lost last season, tbh. Losing Forbes and Marco is great and all but this team is still a car wreck to watch with some of the same problems we've had before. It's good to see Keldon, Murray and the other young guys continue to evolve, though.

The second half of the second quarter was the best stretch of basketball I have seen this team play in years, would rival some of the big 3 era IMHO. The game was far from perfect and agree that late game execution can be predictable/problematic but that second Q....Aspirational goods.

[Mr. Body]

Tatum getting super star calls, as he should. Dudes a beast

Not a superstar, just plays for Boston.

[Mr. Body]

Anyone have a link to the steal?

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/WorldWideWob/status/1354637175317557251


Anyone have a link to the steal?

[Blackhaus]

When derozan isn’t dominating the ball on offense, Spurs are pretty good. His usage rate is way to high, way too high

[Blackhaus]

Not a superstar, just plays for Boston.

Huh? Makes no sense. Dude is a legit player. Not sure what Boston has to do with it.

[poopbox]

Great play but weird game Murray. A lot of driving and kicking without much results, what's the point if he didn't even bother to look for the rim and wasn't necessarily getting teammates open shots.

Yeah Murray offense is probably always going to be up and down because he goes through stretches where he plays to fast and out of control. But guess what ? So does virtually every other 24 year old guard in the nba. So not going to fault him for that.

Defensively dude is electric and makes game altering / game winning plays. Him and Vassel, if they stay healthy, are going to go down as one of the all time great defensive duo's. I thought it couldn't possibly get better than Danny and Kawhi when it came to perimeter defense, but I might be wrong, because Dejounte and Vassel have flashed athleticism that Danny never had.

[Mr. Body]

https://twitter.com/WorldWideWob/status/1354637175317557251

Thx!

[Blackhaus]

https://twitter.com/WorldWideWob/status/1354637175317557251

i .Ike how Kemba was goin to try to flop that pick then just gave up

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/bigfunpod/status/1354644953381691394

[Chinook]

I am confused to why pop keeps putting Lonnie on to the other teams best player each game lol

Thought Walker defended Tatum beautifully in this game. I don't think the Spurs' defense would've worked nearly as well had they put Johnson on him.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/RealTomPetrini/status/1354645512625000449

Love the delayed scream after the dunk L M A O

[Chinook]

I think it's a huge myth that Johnson has been this really good defender this year. I think he's gotten some hard assignments and shouldn't be ashamed of the results, but he's nowhere near a stopper. Keldon is more of a chaos-initiator, and Murray is an off-ball guy (though yes that steal was awesome), Lonnie may as well be the man-guy. Sure, he gives up size in a lot of match-ups with wings. But he'll have to learn to compensate for it like Danny Green did.

[YoungbuckMurray]

Really hope vassell doesn’t lose his minutes when white is back

[Dejounte]

I think it's a huge myth that Johnson has been this really good defender this year. I think he's gotten some hard assignments and shouldn't be ashamed of the results, but he's nowhere near a stopper. Keldon is more of a chaos-initiator, and Murray is an off-ball guy (though yes that steal was awesome), Lonnie may as well be the man-guy. Sure, he gives up size in a lot of match-ups with wings. But he'll have to learn to compensate for it like Danny Green did.

No one is a complete stopper these days. But I can for sure recall more times Keldon made a key man to man defensive play than I have seen Lonnie ever do anything special (on defense). Keldon has had those defensive moments, Lonnie hasn't. I'm not sure why I'm taking this bait though, I see what you're doing because you're a fan of Lonnie and you have to find a way to shift the mud throwing...

[mo7888]

No one is a complete stopper these days. But I can for sure recall more times Keldon made a key man to man defensive play than I have seen Lonnie ever do anything special (on defense). Keldon has had those defensive moments, Lonnie hasn't. I'm not sure why I'm taking this bait though, I see what you're doing because you're a fan of Lonnie and you have to find a way to shift the blame...

Wait.... I thought Chinook wanted to trade Lonnie? Am I wrong?

[RD2191]

Terrible win. Smh

[Dejounte]

Wait.... I thought Chinook wanted to trade Lonnie? Am I wrong?

His schtick is "evening" out the highs and lows, if you get what I mean... Like if I say, the center did REALLY good! He'll come in and say "No, the shooting guard did really well..."

[cd021]

Sometimes it draws the defense in. The zone was making it ineffective. Murray had a solid game, but I agree could have been better.
His drive and kick game has been good this season but he showed absolutely no interest in getting to the rim to actually score. If teams assume that your going to drive just to pass then it becomes more predictable. He did a lot of that tonight.

[r0drig0lac]

https://twitter.com/AirlessJordan/status/1354647627078524932

[Slippy]

Seems this is the reason why:

https://twitter.com/RealTomPetrini/status/1353060200945606660

Put your weakest defender on the best creator so that overhelp can come.

You ccant be this blind.. lonnie was left on a island against Tatum often. The spurs lived with it and ddidnt even send a double in the post to help out lonnie.

[Slippy]

Probably to keep him engaged in the game so he won't just "float" on offense.

This makes the most sense.

Great win.. Lamarcus with his outside shooting opened the game for the spurs by the 2nd. Despite the TOs spurs team defense got enought stops to seal the win in the 4th.

[Chinook]

No one is a complete stopper these days. But I can for sure recall more times Keldon made a key man to man defensive play than I have seen Lonnie ever do anything special (on defense). Keldon has had those defensive moments, Lonnie hasn't. I'm not sure why I'm taking this bait though, I see what you're doing because you're a fan of Lonnie and you have to find a way to shift the mud throwing...

Having impact plays is exactly not the same thing as being a lock-down defender. Those plays often come from gambling, and those gambles come with occasional losses. The ratio of wins to losses can certainly be on the side of a defender, but that is not the same thing as blunting a player's effectiveness up and down the court. You can look at the NFL for a clearer example. A guy can get a lot of interceptions while not being a shut-down corner, because QBs have to keep throwing at the corner's man. They won't do that unless they feel like they can win the match-up.

Anyways, I didn't say anything about Walker being better than Johnson as a player or whatever. I am answering the question as to why Pop using Walker as the designated defender for wings over Johnson as often as he does. It's because despite the reputation from the first few games, Johnson isn't an elite iso defender and because out of all the perimeter players who aren't DeRozan, Walker makes the most sense as the designated man-defender. Johnson causes chaos; Murray causes turnovers. Both of those things happen best when they are not charged with being the designated guy. If Walker were replaced by another player, that player would also have to be the designated man-defender. Hence why Vassell came in for Walker rather than Mills in the first half. The Spurs' scheme works best with Walker as the guy holding the shield while Johnson and Murray stab folks from behind it. When we're talking about smalls, Johnson hasn't shone himself to be a superior defender to the extent that Pop should change his scheme. Tonight was a great example for how well it can work. Folks focusing on the times Tatum overcame Walker doesn't change how great of an outing it was for the Spurs' defense as a whole.

[cd021]

Yeah Murray offense is probably always going to be up and down because he goes through stretches where he plays to fast and out of control. But guess what ? So does virtually every other 24 year old guard in the nba. So not going to fault him for that.

Defensively dude is electric and makes game altering / game winning plays. Him and Vassel, if they stay healthy, are going to go down as one of the all time great defensive duo's. I thought it couldn't possibly get better than Danny and Kawhi when it came to perimeter defense, but I might be wrong, because Dejounte and Vassel have flashed athleticism that Danny never had.

Its not a case of him being up and down, per say, it was more about his lack of aggression in scoring the ball. It was just odd. He drive, immediately pass, and his the recipient of the pass wasn't really open so they would often just pass it or reset. He could've been more assertive tonight. Played like Lonnie often plays.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/ireginaldthomas/status/1354646700909096960?s=09

Kemba Walker lmao

[Chinook]

Wait.... I thought Chinook wanted to trade Lonnie? Am I wrong?

Wait, I thought I wanted to trade Murray...

I'm like the high priest of the Church of Walker. I definitely don't want to trade him in a vacuum. But I think the most important thing about the Spurs' path toward building a contender is making a plan and executing it. They need blue-chippers, and if it costs Walker to get one, then it does. I'd rather it be Murray or even White since Derrick can't stay healthy. But if the team thinks White, Murray and Johnson are the keepers, for example, then I'd rather them make a move with Walker than just keep re-signing anyone decent and be a 10th seed for years while also having a full payroll.

[Blackhaus]

No one is a complete stopper these days. But I can for sure recall more times Keldon made a key man to man defensive play than I have seen Lonnie ever do anything special (on defense). Keldon has had those defensive moments, Lonnie hasn't. I'm not sure why I'm taking this bait though, I see what you're doing because you're a fan of Lonnie and you have to find a way to shift the mud throwing...

Not arguing any way but Keldons so called man on man moments have been cause he’s just got a massive torso. Which is no knock, I think the dude is a stud. It just helps his stance a lot. Thing is Hes a terrible team defender. Pretty sure he failed man, you, ball 101.

[Dejounte]

Not arguing any way but Keldons so called man on man moments have been cause he’s just got a massive torso. Which is no knock, I think the dude is a stud. It just helps his stance a lot. Thing is Hes a terrible team defender. Pretty sure he failed man, you, ball 101.

The comparison being made was man to man defense between Lonnie and Keldon. I agree Keldon's team defense has been bad.

[PhantomDashCam]

Having impact plays is exactly not the same thing as being a lock-down defender. Those plays often come from gambling, and those gambles come with occasional losses. The ratio of wins to losses can certainly be on the side of a defender, but that is not the same thing as blunting a player's effectiveness up and down the court. You can look at the NFL for a clearer example. A guy can get a lot of interceptions while not being a shut-down corner, because QBs have to keep throwing at the corner's man. They won't do that unless they feel like they can win the match-up.

Anyways, I didn't say anything about Walker being better than Johnson as a player or whatever. I am answering the question as to why Pop using Walker as the designated defender for wings over Johnson as often as he does. It's because despite the reputation from the first few games, Johnson isn't an elite iso defender and because out of all the perimeter players who aren't DeRozan, Walker makes the most sense as the designated man-defender. Johnson causes chaos; Murray causes turnovers. Both of those things happen best when they are not charged with being the designated guy. If Walker were replaced by another player, that player would also have to be the designated man-defender. Hence why Vassell came in for Walker rather than Mills in the first half. The Spurs' scheme works best with Walker as the guy holding the shield while Johnson and Murray stab folks from behind it. When we're talking about smalls, Johnson hasn't shone himself to be a superior defender to the extent that Pop should change his scheme. Tonight was a great example for how well it can work. Folks focusing on the times Tatum overcame Walker doesn't change how great of an outing it was for the Spurs' defense as a whole.


To add to this - a defensive possession doesn't conclude on a missed shot either. Keeping your two best defensive rebounders (KJ and DJ) off ball to attack the glass is important to close the possession too.

[mo7888]

Wait, I thought I wanted to trade Murray...

I'm like the high priest of the Church of Walker. I definitely don't want to trade him in a vacuum. But I think the most important thing about the Spurs' path toward building a contender is making a plan and executing it. They need blue-chippers, and if it costs Walker to get one, then it does. I'd rather it be Murray or even White since Derrick can't stay healthy. But if the team thinks White, Murray and Johnson are the keepers, for example, then I'd rather them make a move with Walker than just keep re-signing anyone decent and be a 10th seed for years while also having a full payroll.

Murray + Lonnie package deal? Lol... seriously though, it's obvious that they are going to have to trade someone at somepoint (though I don't think we have to do it now) to balance out the roster and because we just can pay everyone. Ideally, I would hope it would be White or Murray but I don't think anyone should be off limits.

[Chinook]

So it's bait? :lol

To an extent. What you're saying is a bit different though. Like Parker on Barnes in the 2013 GS series -- that was bait. It made GS change their whole gameplan trying to attack an obvious mismatch. What the Spurs did in the Dallas game was just committing to doubling. They basically trusted Mills to take away the three and guide Doncic to a position where the help could rotate down. Dallas just had to adjust to it, whereas in the GS series it didn't matter if they adjusted or not, because the direct benefit of the assignments was that Green got Curry and Leonard got Thompson, and the Spurs were more than willing to take their chances with those match-ups. So GS could either take the easy match-up but get out of their offense or they could run their offense but have to deal with going against the teeth of the Spurs perimeter defense. It was lose-lose for them. In the Dallas game, they missed a few open shots down the stretch, so it looked like it took Dallas longer to counter than it really did.

Also, I think folks don't realize how good Brown's been this year. Tatum is probably their best player, but the gap between him and Brown is WAAAAAAAYYY smaller than that between Doncic and anyone else on that team.

[ECOV]

woooooooooooooooo go spurs go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chinook]

Murray + Lonnie package deal? Lol... seriously though, it's obvious that they are going to have to trade someone at somepoint (though I don't think we have to do it now) to balance out the roster and because we just can pay everyone. Ideally, I would hope it would be White or Murray but I don't think anyone should be off limits.

Basically, and how much PATFO believes in those guys matters. It doesn't matter that I think Walker is the closest thing to a blue-chipper on the team now and that Pop should be doing everything possible to develop Lonnie. If the Pop is never going to view Walker that way and force the offense to work in a way that maximizes Walker's (and everyone's honestly) talents, then trading him for someone who would get that regard is the right move. I didn't say this in the Collins thread, but that's my answer. The Spurs should make that trade only if Pop has a plan to make Collins a vocal point of the team and a net-positive player. I think there are ways he could do that, but I really don't know if it's even something he'd want to do.

[Seventyniner]

Kemba Walker lmao

Until tonight I somehow never made the connection that Kemba wears the same number that Antoine Walker did. Now I'm waiting for Kemba to say he only shoots so many threes cause there are no fours.

[Chinook]

To add to this - a defensive possession doesn't conclude on a missed shot either. Keeping your two best defensive rebounders (KJ and DJ) off ball to attack the glass is important to close the possession too.

Yes. I had forgotten to mention it. Lonnie is a good rebounder for his size too, but his box-outs are abysmal. If he can't rush up and high-point the ball, his man is very likely to get the board. Having his guy be the shooter dramatically reduces the chances of him giving up the offensive rebound.

[Chinook]

Not arguing any way but Keldons so called man on man moments have been cause he’s just got a massive torso. Which is no knock, I think the dude is a stud. It just helps his stance a lot. Thing is Hes a terrible team defender. Pretty sure he failed man, you, ball 101.

Johnson's a superior post-defender, and there'd be no way the Spurs could survive playing small even this well without him. I don't think he's a horrible man-defender or anything, but he's not the guy those early tweets tried to make him out to be. I said it then and got some shit for it. When the guy is Lebron or Zion, you obviously put Keldon on him. When the guy is a smaller wing, you obviously put Walker on him. When it's a tall but not bulky SF like Tatum or Ingram, it depends.

[John B]

https://twitter.com/ireginaldthomas/status/1354646700909096960?s=09

Kemba Walker lmao
If that turned out to be a foul, we would be cussing DJ right now. Was that really the right play or just stay in front of the guy and not risk a foul. Spurs was up 2 pts and just needed a stop.
I mean the steal was great, but just saying.

[Chinook]

If that turned out to be a foul, we would be cussing DJ right now. Was that really the right play or just stay in front of the guy and not risk a foul. Spurs was up 2 pts and just needed a stop.
I mean the steal was great, but just saying.

Nah. The Spurs had one to give.

[John B]

Nah. The Spurs had one to give.
Then great gamble then with the steal.. Alright Murray :lol

[jehawk81]

https://twitter.com/ireginaldthomas/status/1354646700909096960?s=09

Kemba Walker lmao

Yup, I like how his night ended, especially after he was starting to get that "take over the game" smile in the 3rd

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Esy9_THW4AAuCyN?format=png&name=large

[Dejounte]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Esy9_THW4AAuCyN?format=png&name=large

Portland is for sure going to fall out of that picture. I'm surprised by the Suns after they started hot.

[Mr. Body]

Portland is for sure going to fall out of that picture. I'm surprised by the Suns after they started hot.

Not surprised. Chris Paul can't fix that trash roster. Booker isn't a winner and never will be.

[SPURSCHAMP]

Portland is for sure going to fall out of that picture. I'm surprised by the Suns after they started hot.

caught every Suns game so far, they were lights out from 3 to start but are now missing shots. Booker has been terrible and CP3 doesn't seem to fit the team, they're young and like to run. Also Monty has reduced Ayton to a OReb/putback center when he can be dominant offensively. Doesn't help that they look him off on every switch/mismatch in the post and just continue clanking 3's. Suns fans on reddit are going crazy about it.

[LCM]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Esy9_THW4AAuCyN?format=png&name=large

Wins against Minnesota and Houston and they are the 4th seed. They have to learn to win the games they should win.

[Dex]

Portland is for sure going to fall out of that picture. I'm surprised by the Suns after they started hot.

Portland always seems to find a way to stay competitive even with a wave of injuries.

I'm pretty much used to Collins and Nurkic being out at this point, but McCollum definitely hurts. Still, Lillard may be able to Dame Time his way into keeping them in the playoff picture.

It's seems like every year we want to write them off, yet they stay in the middle of the playoff pack.

[Dejounte]

Portland always seems to find a way to stay competitive even with a wave of injuries.

I'm pretty much used to Collins and Nurkic being out at this point, but McCollum definitely hurts. Still, Lillard may be able to Dame Time his way into keeping them in the playoff picture.

It's seems like every year we want to write them off, yet they stay in the middle of the playoff pack.

"Middle of the playoff pack"? They usually barely make it in all the time.

[Dex]

"Middle of the playoff pack"? They usually barely make it in all the time.

2020 - 8th
2019 - 3rd
2018 - 3rd
2017 - 8th
2016 - 5th

I'd call that middle of the pack. Averages out to ~5th place finish over 5 years.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Spurs as always trying to get muh touches his touches to start the game

That's exactly what I was thinking. Other teams have noticed that both DJM and DDR really try to spoon feed LA at the beginning of the game, so they were defending the pass to LA which resulted in 3 1st quarter turnovers. Spurs better make an adjustment.

[rankingtear]

Basically, and how much PATFO believes in those guys matters. It doesn't matter that I think Walker is the closest thing to a blue-chipper on the team now and that Pop should be doing everything possible to develop Lonnie. If the Pop is never going to view Walker that way and force the offense to work in a way that maximizes Walker's (and everyone's honestly) talents, then trading him for someone who would get that regard is the right move. I didn't say this in the Collins thread, but that's my answer. The Spurs should make that trade only if Pop has a plan to make Collins a vocal point of the team and a net-positive player. I think there are ways he could do that, but I really don't know if it's even something he'd want to do.

I'm curious what player do you see Lonnie developing as?

Lonnie does not fall into any useful archetype. Advance stats point to Waiters / Wiggins / Brooks type players , the extinct black holes.

Playmaking too low for a primary or secondary creator.
Movement skills too low for a movement shooter.
Lack of defensive awareness takes him out of being a glue or 3 and D wing.
Rim finishing is too poor to be considered a slashing wing.

[Chinook]

I'm curious what player do you see Lonnie developing as?

Lonnie does not fall into any useful archetype. Advance stats point to Waiters / Wiggins / Brooks type players , the extinct black holes.

Playmaking too low for a primary or secondary creator.
Movement skills too low for a movement shooter.
Lack of defensive awareness takes him out of being a glue or 3 and D wing.
Rim finishing is too poor to be considered a slashing wing.

Walker is not a black hole. You have to use a lot of possessions and hold the ball during those possessions.

Walker has the highest PPT (points per touch) of anyone in the rotation, but only Vassell touches the ball less. He's pretty middle of the pack in terms of time of possession and dribbles per touch, behind all of the primary ball-handlers in that regard. Walker has been more of a finisher than black hole. Possessions don't "die" when he touches the ball. He shoots more than doing anything else, but a Walker shot is one of the best shots the team generates right now, and he hasn't been getting a ton of them.

I think he could develop into a good lead guard, though not necessarily a PG. He has the type of speed and athleticism that can bend a defense, but he doesn't seem to have the will. If he had Johnson's bull mentality, Lonnie would be the best offensive player on the team. He's going to have to learn to be a score-first guard who passes when he gets a defense to commit rather than a pass-first guard who only tries to score when he's open. Him ending so many of his touches is part of that, but he's still getting into the paint and looking to pass too much. And because Lonnie doesn't get consistent touches, he seems unsure of when to try to score and when to keep the offense moving. When he goes cold, it's almost always because he doesn't take shots, not because he's taking them and missing.

[rankingtear]

Walker is not a black hole. You have to use a lot of possessions and hold the ball during those possessions.

Walker has the highest PPT (points per touch) of anyone in the rotation, but only Vassell touches the ball less. He's pretty middle of the pack in terms of time of possession and dribbles per touch, behind all of the primary ball-handlers in that regard. Walker has been more of a finisher than black hole. Possessions don't "die" when he touches the ball. He shoots more than doing anything else, but a Walker shot is one of the best shots the team generates right now, and he hasn't been getting a ton of them.

I think he could develop into a good lead guard, though not necessarily a PG. He has the type of speed and athleticism that can bend a defense, but he doesn't seem to have the will. If he had Johnson's bull mentality, Lonnie would be the best offensive player on the team. He's going to have to learn to be a score-first guard who passes when he gets a defense to commit rather than a pass-first guard who only tries to score when he's open. Him ending so many of his touches is part of that, but he's still getting into the paint and looking to pass too much. And because Lonnie doesn't get consistent touches, he seems unsure of when to try to score and when to keep the offense moving. When he goes cold, it's almost always because he doesn't take shots, not because he's taking them and missing.

Spot ups statistically generates a high points per possesions than most playtypes, but is good spot up shooting without plus defense irreplaceable? I don't see a lead guard with at least baseline creation for others being viable anymore.

A lead guard who never got to 2 assist per game on any level , college , g league , summer league is a blackhole.






-

[Chinook]

Spot ups statistically generates a high points per possesions than most playtypes, but is good spot up shooting without plus defense irreplaceable? I don't see a lead guard with at least baseline creation for others being viable anymore.

You're conflating different ideas. A spot-up shooter isn't a black hole. At worst, that player is a chucker. A black hole needs to dominate the ball, and a pure finisher who's behind most guards in touches is definitely not doing that. Walker is not a black hole, whether he assists or not. That's just not a term that applies to him. That doesn't mean that his current role and production isn't replaceable. I wouldn't be as open to Walker trades right now if I thought that. There are ways that trading him could make the team better. That still doesn't make him a black hole, though.


A lead guard who never got to 2 assist per game on any level , college , g league , summer league is a blackhole.

So this is where the conflation comes from. You're applying what Walker is currently, which is a spot-up shooter who doesn't perform well enough at that task to justify him being meh or worse in most other areas, and projecting that onto his development curve. When I say that Lonnie can become an elite guard, I don't mean that he can be a spot-up shooter who doesn't pass. He's already that. I mean he can become a guy who breaks down a defense and then makes a few good passes when him shooting isn't the best option. We're talking about a guy who scores like 25ppg but only tallies like three or four assists rather than a guy who averages seven or eight dimes while scoring in the teens. I think right now, he's not scoring aggressively enough to open the passing lanes to get more assists (and he obviously isn't getting the touches to do that right now regardless). But he has to score first. He's so far from being a black hole right now that he has to become one in order to move past it to be a well-rounded offensive player. He's on the wrong side of the mountain right now, and he might never cross the peak.

[TD 21]

I don't see a lead guard with at least baseline creation for others being viable anymore.

Same. The "bubble", which was his first extended look, clarified his role/ceiling for me.

Still relatively early, but generally by this point players at least shown flashes or glimpses, beared out by advanced metrics, that indicate they have the potential to be a go-to player and he hasn't.

[ace3g]

5th seed after tonight's games

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Es4BnarXYAAH2eO?format=png&name=900x900

[JPB]

If that turned out to be a foul, we would be cussing DJ right now. Was that really the right play or just stay in front of the guy and not risk a foul. Spurs was up 2 pts and just needed a stop.
I mean the steal was great, but just saying.

Manu :cry

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

5th seed after tonight's games

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Es4BnarXYAAH2eO?format=png&name=900x900

4 thru 13 separated by less than 4 games. I think it's going to be a tight race all year. We'll probably see a couple of teams fade, but I expect 6-12 to stay within 2 to 3 games of each other all season.

[The Truth #6]

You're conflating different ideas. A spot-up shooter isn't a black hole. At worst, that player is a chucker. A black hole needs to dominate the ball, and a pure finisher who's behind most guards in touches is definitely not doing that. Walker is not a black hole, whether he assists or not. That's just not a term that applies to him. That doesn't mean that his current role and production isn't replaceable. I wouldn't be as open to Walker trades right now if I thought that. There are ways that trading him could make the team better. That still doesn't make him a black hole, though.



So this is where the conflation comes from. You're applying what Walker is currently, which is a spot-up shooter who doesn't perform well enough at that task to justify him being meh or worse in most other areas, and projecting that onto his development curve. When I say that Lonnie can become an elite guard, I don't mean that he can be a spot-up shooter who doesn't pass. He's already that. I mean he can become a guy who breaks down a defense and then makes a few good passes when him shooting isn't the best option. We're talking about a guy who scores like 25ppg but only tallies like three or four assists rather than a guy who averages seven or eight dimes while scoring in the teens. I think right now, he's not scoring aggressively enough to open the passing lanes to get more assists (and he obviously isn't getting the touches to do that right now regardless). But he has to score first. He's so far from being a black hole right now that he has to become one in order to move past it to be a well-rounded offensive player. He's on the wrong side of the mountain right now, and he might never cross the peak.

Good points re: Walker.

I would love for him to be much more aggressive. My intuition tells me that he is trying to play a safe game to not make mistakes (fouling and turnovers) and have Pop upset at him. I think he is afraid of stepping on toes as well. Last year in his nuclear Houston game, Patty is the one who told him to take the last shot; Walker was prepared to defer.

I think Walker has a cautious temperament, but he is still improving. I hope that once he feels comfortable with his current role, he will then take the next step up. I see his role as a secondary playmaker with a strong drive and kick game. Learning to finish through contact seems to be the next hurdle.

[ceperez]

Good points re: Walker.

I would love for him to be much more aggressive. My intuition tells me that he is trying to play a safe game to not make mistakes (fouling and turnovers) and have Pop upset at him. I think he is afraid of stepping on toes as well. Last year in his nuclear Houston game, Patty is the one who told him to take the last shot; Walker was prepared to defer.

I think Walker has a cautious temperament, but he is still improving. I hope that once he feels comfortable with his current role, he will then take the next step up. I see his role as a secondary playmaker with a strong drive and kick game. Learning to finish through contact seems to be the next hurdle.

Walker doesn't have the natural instincts of D.White or Vassell. He doesn't have the length of Murray. Doesn't have the size of Keldon.

But, I think he has room to grow. He just defers a lot, but his unselfishness should not be an issue.

[r0drig0lac]

Walker doesn't have the natural instincts of D.White or Vassell. He doesn't have the length of Murray. Doesn't have the size of Keldon.

But, I think he has room to grow. He just defers a lot, but his unselfishness should not be an issue.

but he is still the most athletic kid in that group by far, and has the better shooting mechanics.