Memphis, injured and w/ 2 week layoff, is objectively better than us. Might be time to tank.

[kht]

Memphis is missing Winslow, JV, and Jaren Jackson Jr. They haven't played in two weeks. They just beat us over the weekend so it's not like we aren't on high alert and haven't already made adjustments. And they still came into our building and gave us everything we could handle.

If we are not even better than a short handed Memphis team, it might be time to tank. I'm sorry. We can nab one of Cade or Jalen Green and set our franchise up for the next 15 years like Phoenix has with Booker or Memphis has with Morant or Dallas with Luka.

[Dejounte]

The team isn't tanking

[RD2191]

The team isn't tanking
Not deliberately. :lol

[Dancelot]

We’re not gonna tank but we will probably end up with a decent pick again.

[Dejounte]

Not deliberately. :lol

They'll "tank" to 0.500 and then start winning again, rinse and repeat.

[The Truth #6]

The team isn't tanking

I prefer the term “developing our youth”. But in reality, less minutes for our vets could translate to more wins. I mean, it’s probably 50/50. What I’m also saying is, unless they play a ton of Eubanks, Tre Jones, and Quindarry, I’m not sure there is an obvious path to tanking. Which is why I prefer to prioritize our young core and see what happens.

[Atl Spur]

Memphis is scary deep when they get healthy! Their rookies even play with poise..... I really want to see Dejounte Murray take his place in the conversation of top guards; the top guards murder him!! Lonnie and demar to Atlanta for Collins huerter & filler works for me. Boston can have Lamarcus & Rudy; patty where ever...... need high IQ players that play hard even if making mistakes.

[Dejounte]

I've said it since pre-season:

When people were expecting this team to be a bottom 10 team before the regular season even started, I said, "You find out what the team's true identity is after 15+ games in."

And lo and behold, I was right and cliffjumpers were wrong. The team was better than expected by cliffjumpers and I can now have an informed opinion about what the Spurs are after 21 games:

1. they are not a bottom 10 team.
2. They will win against good teams, and lose bad against bad teams
3. At worst, they're a 0.500 team. At best? It's hard to know.

[GAustex]

Can we trade poop?

[MultiTroll]

Can we trade poop?
Yes, for draft picks.
Coc Rivers was traded for a 1st round pick.

[Dejounte]

You'd figure from all the terrible takes on here before the regular season, that you'd see some humility from these same folks before they start spewing nonsense. But no. Very short term memory when they're wrong.

[TheGreatYacht]

Can we trade poop?
God yes. I’d take a bad contract in return at this point to rid us of the fossil

[daslicer]

Hard to tell how good this Memphis team is and how truly bad this Spurs team is. It could be a case where the Spurs just don't match up well with Memphis. Every now then there is a team that has your number regardless of who is on the court. That might be the case with Memphis. The next 7-10 games will reveal to me what type of team this current spurs team is.

[Dejounte]

What I REALLY want to know is why we should take a person's word when they didn't expect much from this team to begin with? Like, you're over here saying the team would be better if they did x, y, and z... Motherfucker, you didn't even think they would be as good as they are now. Why's your point valid?

[TheGreatYacht]

What I REALLY want to know is why we should take a person's word when they didn't expect much from this team to begin with? Like, you're over here saying the team would be better if they did x, y, and z... Motherfucker, you didn't even think they would be as good as they are now. Why's your point valid?
Seems like those motherfuckers were right lol

[Dejounte]

Some perspective...

Miami lost to Charlotte tonight and are sitting at 7-13. They were the ECF champs. Whose fans should be more disappointed? Theirs or ours?

[look_at_g_shred]

We were supposed to be a lottery team. We have been over achieving. At least we ain’t the Mavs who are considered title contenders lol. Waisting another year of Luka’s career.

[look_at_g_shred]

This season is a win win tbh. Win and make the playoffs. Lose and get a nice pick!

[Dejounte]

As I said before, the team's floor is 0.500

As for the team's ceiling... I'm holding out hope that one or a couple of these vets get traded by the deadline, which will raise the team's ceiling.

[ElNono]

Some perspective...

Miami lost to Charlotte tonight and are sitting at 7-13. They were the ECF champs. Whose fans should be more disappointed? Theirs or ours?

Clearly ours... we're 11-10 and have a ceiling of first round fodder, which means a good but not great pick.

And unlike Miami, we've been dogshit for 3+ seasons now, we needed to start tanking like yesterday.

[Dejounte]

Clearly ours... we're 11-10 and have a ceiling of first round fodder, which means a good but not great pick.

And unlike Miami, we've been dogshit for 3+ seasons now, we needed to start tanking like yesterday.

Did Miami tank for any of their players?

Miami was not dogshit in 2017 and 2018? 2017, they lost in the first round, in 2018 they didn't go to the playoffs.

The fuck are you saying, dude?

"Clearly" :lmao :lmao

Some of y'all are so focused on the Spurs that perspective and facts are lost on you.

[daslicer]

This season is a win win tbh. Win and make the playoffs. Lose and get a nice pick!

That's exactly the way I look at it. These losses don't get to me since the Spurs are not a title contender and when they win it's just bonus. I actually enjoy the meltdowns here more so after losses then wins just for entertainment purposes.

[GAustex]

Miami has a good coach

[GAustex]

Spurs got one guy who can shoot lights out 3 ball and he is a midget. LMA maybe but he wears concrete sneakers

[ElNono]

Did Miami tank for any of their players?

Miami was not dogshit in 2017 and 2018? 2017, they lost in the first round, in 2018 they didn't go to the playoffs.

The fuck are you saying, dude?

"Clearly" :lmao :lmao

Some of y'all are so focused on the Spurs that perspective and facts are lost on you.

Miami fans can look back at last year and get excited about something. Our fans? They been counting the hours until Poops calls it quits and we step down from this threadmil of being good enough to whiff on good picks while sucking enough not to be contenders. Literally the worst place to be in this league, with the sole exception of Dan Gilbert being the owner of your team.

lmao @ "at best, it's hard to know"... tbh, you should ask the mods to change your name to "Bad takes" and hopefully never post again after that.

[Dejounte]

Miami fans can look back at last year and get excited about something. Our fans? They been counting the hours until Poops calls it quits and we step down from this threadmil of being good enough to whiff on good picks while sucking enough not to be contenders. Literally the worst place to be in this league, with the sole exception of Dan Gilbert being the owner of your team.

lmao @ "at best, it's hard to know"... tbh, you should ask the mods to change your name to "Bad takes" and hopefully never post again after that.

"Miami fans can look back at last year" :lmao

Ignores what he said 10 minutes ago

Looks at things in a vacuum only :lmao

You're shortsighted as fuck. Go back to not posting as much or better yet, go back to your other alts :lmao

This motherfucker got backed into a corner with his nonsensical points :lmao

[gambit1990]

This season is a win win tbh. Win and make the playoffs. Lose and get a nice pick!
https://media4.giphy.com/media/BFYLNwlsSNtcc/200.gif
https://media4.giphy.com/media/BFYLNwlsSNtcc/200.gif
https://media4.giphy.com/media/BFYLNwlsSNtcc/200.gif

that's how it works for almost every team, every season :lmao :lmao

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

memphis raped

[gambit1990]

Clearly ours... we're 11-10 and have a ceiling of first round fodder, which means a good but not great pick.

And unlike Miami, we've been dogshit for 3+ seasons now, we needed to start tanking like yesterday.
100

[ElNono]

"Miami fans can look back at last year" :lmao

Ignores what he said 10 minutes ago

What did I ignore? You said yourself Miami reached the ECF and I said at least their fans can look back to that.

Spursfan would feel glorious if this team could reach the WCF... it can't.



Looks at things in a vacuum only :lmao

You're shortsighted as fuck. Go back to not posting as much or better yet, go back to your other alts :lmao

lmao 4 years of suckitude = looking at things in a vacuum... this is what I'm talking about with the bad takes, tbh

[Dejounte]

What did I ignore? You said yourself Miami reached the ECF and I said at least their fans can look back to that.

Spursfan would feel glorious if this team could reach the WCF... it can't.




lmao 4 years of suckitude = looking at things in a vacuum... this is what I'm talking about with the bad takes, tbh

You use the "four years of suckitude" line so readily for the Spurs, yet easily drop it and use a double standard when it comes to the seasons before the Heat made it to the ECF. This is why I said you look at things in a vacuum. No logic being used here. It's even worse than just a bad take by you, it's just a stupid one.

Recency bias is a helluva drug.

[ElNono]

You use the "four years of suckitude" line so readily for the Spurs, yet easily drop it and use a double standard when it comes to the seasons before the Heat made it to the ECF. This is why I said you look at things in a vacuum. No logic being used here. It's even worse than just a bad take by you, it's just a stupid one.

There's no double standard, and it's completely logical.

This is a sport where only winning matters. If you're not winning at a good clip, you don't have a shot at contention. If you don't have a shot a contention, you better be losing and losing big to reload via the lottery, because no 'star' is coming to this team out of their own volition. Especially not with this crew.

Again, being good enough to miss on great picks and bad enough not to be in contention is the worst place to be in this league. I don't see you disputing this at all, and that's exactly what these Spurs have been doing since nephew left the building.

[Dejounte]

There's no double standard, and it's completely logical.

This is a sport where only winning matters. If you're not winning at a good clip, you don't have a shot at contention. If you don't have a shot a contention, you better be losing and losing big to reload via the lottery, because no 'star' is coming to this team out of their own volition. Especially not with this crew.

Again, being good enough to miss on great picks and bad enough not to be in contention is the worst place to be in this league. I don't see you disputing this at all, and that's exactly what these Spurs have been doing since nephew left the building.

You're going off on a serious tangent from where this conversation (about perspective) began.

To put it simply, you believe the Heat has had multiple successful years than the Spurs. I dismantled that lie by pointing out that the years before last were anything but successful.

Then you moved goal posts by saying that, "well, their fans are happy about last year".

Simply head over to the Heat forum and see how "happy" they are because they made the Finals last season.

And now, you're going off on criticizing team construction which is a whole different discussion. I'm quite happy about our young core compared to the Heat. Yes, they're better than the Heat's young core. No, they're not on the level of Adebayo or Jimmy yet. But I feel good about one of them (if not two) getting there. And there's the biggest offseason in Spurs history coming up.

[gambit1990]

Dejounte is the worst poster around these days.

[daslicer]

You're going off on a serious tangent from where this conversation (about perspective) began.

To put it simply, you believe the Heat has had multiple successful years than the Spurs. I dismantled that lie by pointing out that the years before last were anything but successful.

Then you moved goal posts by saying that, "well, their fans are happy about last year".

Simply head over to the Heat forum and see how "happy" they are because they made the Finals last season.

And now, you're going off on criticizing team construction which is a whole different discussion. I'm quite happy about our young core compared to the Heat. Yes, they're better than the Heat's young core. No, they're not on the level of Adebayo or Jimmy yet. But I feel good about one of them (if not two) getting there. And there's the biggest offseason in Spurs history coming up.

Spurs are not going to get any hot prospects through FA. They will probably get some old vets and maybe a good role player or two.

[ElNono]

You're going off on a serious tangent from where this conversation (about perspective) began.

To put it simply, you believe the Heat has had multiple successful years than the Spurs. I dismantled that lie by pointing out that the years before last were anything but successful.

Then you moved goal posts by saying that, "well, their fans are happy about last year".

Simply head over to the Heat forum and see how "happy" they are because they made the Finals last season.

And now, you're going off on criticizing team construction which is a whole different discussion. I'm quite happy about our young core compared to the Heat. Yes, they're better than the Heat's young core. No, they're not on the level of Adebayo or Jimmy yet. But I feel good about one of them (if not two) getting there. And there's the biggest offseason in Spurs history coming up.


But you omit that the Heat picked #10 in '15, #14 in '17 and #13 in '19... so, they really sucked because they ended up landing players like Adebayo who is a 20/10 guy for them today.

The Spurs? Last year it's the first time they picked in the top 15 since Timmy was drafted in '97. So that's exactly what I'm talking about.

I'm not moving goalposts. You brought up Miami, not me. I do know Spursfan would be thoroughly happy to make the WCF, because that gives your some amount of hope you're contending. Zero chance of happening with this team, period.

I like the Spurs youth too (most of them anyways), and I won't throw them under the bus, but the majority of the time we're wasting minutes on losers like Carmelo Aldrige or completely over the hill guys like Patty.

[Dejounte]

Dejounte is the worst poster around these days.

Only comes out of his shell after losses :lmao

Doesn't even watch the games :lmao

Block me then, ya loser.

[Dejounte]

But you omit that the Heat picked #10 in '15, #14 in '17 and #13 in '19... so, they really sucked because they ended up landing players like Adebayo who is a 20/10 guy for them today.

The Spurs? Last year it's the first time they picked in the top 15 since Timmy was drafted in '97. So that's exactly what I'm talking about.

I'm not moving goalposts. You brought up Miami, not me. I do know Spursfan would be thoroughly happy to make the WCF, because that gives your some amount of hope you're contending. Zero chance of happening with this team, period.

I like the Spurs youth too (most of them anyways), and I won't throw them under the bus, but the majority of the time we're wasting minutes on losers like Carmelo Aldrige or completely over the hill guys like Patty.

Did you really go six years back to try to prove a point? Back during a time when our future in 2015 looked a lot fucking brighter than the Heat ANY YEAR including last year post-big 3? Read what you just posted. You're conveniently ignoring context in a lot of these points you're trying to make. As if at any point the Spurs can just decide to tank and magically land a franchise player, even during years when they were actual contenders. Laughing my fucking ass off that you chose 2015 of all years to try to prove a point. Nice job pulling that one out of your ass.


"Gives you hope you're contending"?
The Heat fans have hope right now that they're contending?

Maybe during the offseason. Oh well, fun while that lasted...

[ElNono]

Did you really go six years back to try to prove a point? Back during a time when our future in 2015 looked a lot fucking brighter than the Heat ANY YEAR including last year post-big 3? Read what you just posted. You're conveniently ignoring context in a lot of these points you're trying to make. As if at any point the Spurs can just decide to tank and magically land a franchise player, even during years when they were actual contenders. Laughing my fucking ass off that you chose 2015 of all years to try to prove a point. Nice job pulling that one out of your ass.


"Gives you hope you're contending"?
The Heat fans have hope right now that they're contending?

Maybe during the offseason. Oh well, fun while that lasted...

lmao skip '15 and take '17 and '19 then, you're nitpicking but the point is the same. There are ways to suck. Miami at least got something in return for sucking properly, not this half-assed shit we've been doing as a team for 4 years.

I'm not a Heat fan, so I don't know/care how they feel, but if my team was in the WCF last year, I would feel a lot better about the team prospects than if we're perennially in the 8-11 place and going nowhere season after season. You know why, I already explained it to you twice ITT and you haven't disputed this at all.

[RVSTX]

Even if the Spurs play .500 ball, they clearly dont have THAT GUY! we cant have abunch of 15 million dollar players. spurs need to figure out how to get one of those elite
talents! its time for the spurs to decide a way to go, vets or the young guys and let the chips fall where they may. you cant always gamble and draft mid to late first round and
hope for a star, evenrually you have to get into that top 10 and roll the dice there! just so happens the 21 draft has those kind of talents, you have to take advantage even if it
goes against what you may believe in...GSG

[Atl Spur]

Just get me players that want to compete without having to be pushed! That’s all.

[tbdog]

Even if the Spurs play .500 ball, they clearly dont have THAT GUY! we cant have abunch of 15 million dollar players. spurs need to figure out how to get one of those elite
talents! its time for the spurs to decide a way to go, vets or the young guys and let the chips fall where they may. you cant always gamble and draft mid to late first round and
hope for a star, evenrually you have to get into that top 10 and roll the dice there! just so happens the 21 draft has those kind of talents, you have to take advantage even if it
goes against what you may believe in...GSG

You can turn those 15 mil guys into something. Look what Heat did. They someone got Butler for the max when they were over the cap.

[tbdog]

lmao skip '15 and take '17 and '19 then, you're nitpicking but the point is the same. There are ways to suck. Miami at least got something in return for sucking properly, not this half-assed shit we've been doing as a team for 4 years.

I'm not a Heat fan, so I don't know/care how they feel, but if my team was in the WCF last year, I would feel a lot better about the team prospects than if we're perennially in the 8-11 place and going nowhere season after season. You know why, I already explained it to you twice ITT and you haven't disputed this at all.

How did the Heat suck better than we are? I am confused here.

[ElNono]

How did the Heat suck better than we are? I am confused here.

They tanked and got a few relatively good picks. We didn't, and we have relatively nothing to show for it.

[tbdog]

They tanked and got a few relatively good picks. We didn't, and we have relatively nothing to show for it.

Adebayo and Herro are pick 14 and 13. Spurs drafted 11 this season.

[cd021]

I don't think they'll tank, even if they move vets like Gay, DDR , and/ or Mills. Funny thing is, there a bunch of teams hovering around .500.

If they move one of those guys then they'll get worse, at least somewhat which could cost them several wins but improve their draft position even if they don't outright tank.

[Dejounte]

Adebayo and Herro are pick 14 and 13. Spurs drafted 11 this season.

That's the thing this idiot doesn't understand. The Heat hardly tanked. Then he tries to select years from the Spurs where it wasn't even plausible for them to tank. Absolutely no logic is being used. Just nonsense from a whiny fan.

[Dejounte]

I don't think they'll tank, even if they move vets like Gay, DDR , and/ or Mills. Funny thing is, there a bunch of teams hovering around .500.

If they move one of those guys then they'll get worse, at least somewhat which could cost them several wins but improve their draft position even if they don't outright tank.

Disagree, getting rid of Mills or Gay are addition by subtraction moves in the mold of letting Forbes go. Those guys are blackholes on offense and awful on defense. Their points come in bunches but more often than not they disappear.

[Dejounte]

I don't think they'll tank, even if they move vets like Gay, DDR , and/ or Mills. Funny thing is, there a bunch of teams hovering around .500.

If they move one of those guys then they'll get worse, at least somewhat which could cost them several wins but improve their draft position even if they don't outright tank.

Also, Vassell would almost certainly swallow those minutes which can only be a positive.

[8FOR!3]

It doesn't help that Gorgui Dieng always has our number. Idk what it is. Obviously he works hard but objectively he's a career backup center...

[KobesAchilles]

Some things to consider. We are barely out of the playoff picture. We are basically in a 3 way tie for the 8th seed. Memphis is a bad match up for us. They are just as young, just as quick, play hungry, and have a legit star. If JJJ comes back the same player as he was before he got hurt, then they are going to be well set up for the future.

Houston's coach is doing an amazing job. He has every player bought into his system. They are all moving and passing the ball and playing hellacious defense. #1 defense post Harden era. Wall seems to be a difference maker. Christian Wood has developed into an amazing 3&D Center. Dude is balling. And it's hard to argue that James Harden didn't bring the team together with his cancerous ways :lol

BUT we are also only 3 games ahead of Dallas for that elusive "only better than the T-wolves" spot in the West. I expect Dallas to play better. I expect the Pelicans to play better. Sacramento is a wild card. I have no idea with them, but I would like to believe we are better. We also should be better than the Thunder for the rest of the year. The team fell apart last year and lost like 8 in a row. It's gut check time right now. Bc if things stand, we are going to get that Devin Vasell type pick rather than a bonfide top 5 pick.

I just wish the Spurs would kinda pick a direction at some point this season. Either go up or down instead of this middle area we are stuck in. It's too early to tank, but if we are still like this towards late March or something, we better sell our vets and NOT re-sign Demar.

[cd021]

Disagree, getting rid of Mills or Gay are addition by subtraction moves in the mold of letting Forbes go. Those guys are blackholes on offense and awful on defense. Their points come in bunches but more often than not they disappear.


Also, Vassell would almost certainly swallow those minutes which can only be a positive.

Don't the Spurs have one of the best defensive units in the NBA, which include both Gay and Mills? Mills has been a plus on offense, leading the team in 3pt attempts and 3pt %. He's been really good overall tbh.

Gay has less of a case. He's clearly trying to show out for his next deal. He still holds value but has a nasty tendency to shot cluck, breaking the offense. Still, theirs a black hole at PF without him. Vassell would definitely play more, which would be a plus but less size and length and less depth. That could be an issue if White were to go down again or Covid hits the team.

Still, I hope that they trade them for assets and take their chances.

[Thomas82]

Even if the Spurs play .500 ball, they clearly dont have THAT GUY! we cant have abunch of 15 million dollar players. spurs need to figure out how to get one of those elite
talents! its time for the spurs to decide a way to go, vets or the young guys and let the chips fall where they may. you cant always gamble and draft mid to late first round and
hope for a star, evenrually you have to get into that top 10 and roll the dice there! just so happens the 21 draft has those kind of talents, you have to take advantage even if it
goes against what you may believe in...GSG

I couldn't have said it better.

[PrimeMinister]

We don't even know if we have "that guy" when our offensive game plan has become trading iso led by Demar, Rudy, Patty, and Lamarcus with our promising players getting scraps.

Keldon starts leading the attack in the third quarter when we're down 20 points and it starts to look sort of like a ball game. He gets his points on cleaning up broken possessions and manufacturing points out of thin air in the paint while everyone watches. He finished the game with 26, 11, and made some really nice passes.

But the sky is falling and we don't have "that guy". Put the 2013 iteration of Kawhi Leonard on this team and there's the exact same comments being said about him right now. Is our team construction this year fundamentally broken? Yeah. Is derozan a net negative player who doesn't contribute to actually being a competitive basketball team compared to other contenders? Yeah. Does the fact we run our offense through him and a gaggle of other MLE caliber veterans mean we don't have a potential all-nba talent on the roster? No. Don't be stupid.

[Dejounte]

Don't the Spurs have one of the best defensive units in the NBA, which include both Gay and Mills? Mills has been a plus on offense, leading the team in 3pt attempts and 3pt %. He's been really good overall tbh.

Gay has less of a case. He's clearly trying to show out for his next deal. He still holds value but has a nasty tendency to shot cluck, breaking the offense. Still, theirs a black hole at PF without him. Vassell would definitely play more, which would be a plus but less size and length and less depth. That could be an issue if White were to go down again or Covid hits the team.

Still, I hope that they trade them for assets and take their chances.

All the better if that's what it looks like from the surface. Pretty sure it's misleading in some shape or form that I'm too lazy to look into right now. It's either the SL that's so bad defensively or someone else in the line-up is carrying them to make that stat look good. As far as Mills.... the guy thinks he's Iverson out there and sure, he's been on fire for a good amount of games, but it's hardly ever within the flow of the offense. But I'm glad he's making them and I hope he continues to make them so that we could fool someone by the trade deadline (or S&T in the off-season).

[rjv]

honestly, this memphis series through me off. it's like elliiott said, i don't know if this was a result of the spurs playing so badly or memphis playing that well. they hit threes, they have a superstar and their defense was stifling. on the other hand, they exposed how old LMA is, they frustrated derozan and our younger players shriveled up. the truth is probably somewhere in between: memphis is a playoff contender and the spurs are not there yet.

[look_at_g_shred]

honestly, this memphis series through me off. it's like elliiott said, i don't know if this was a result of the spurs playing so badly or memphis playing that well. they hit threes, they have a superstar and their defense was stifling. on the other hand, they exposed how old LMA is, they frustrated derozan and our younger players shriveled up. the truth is probably somewhere in between: memphis is a playoff contender and the spurs are not there yet.
Great post

[daslicer]

honestly, this memphis series through me off. it's like elliiott said, i don't know if this was a result of the spurs playing so badly or memphis playing that well. they hit threes, they have a superstar and their defense was stifling. on the other hand, they exposed how old LMA is, they frustrated derozan and our younger players shriveled up. the truth is probably somewhere in between: memphis is a playoff contender and the spurs are not there yet.

It could be a case of both that Memphis is really this good and the Spurs just don't match up well with them. We'll know how good the Spurs really are by the end of this month.

[John B]

It’s so frustrating :madrun:madrun:madrun. I had it with this team. I’ll talk to you guys tomorrow. :lol:lol:lol

[kht]

It's not an inbetween or "let's see" approach. Spurs had every advantage, and Memphis had every disadvantage and we still got smoked. Head to head, they are better than us. Us compared to the league versus them compared to the league? Jury is still out there.

[ElNono]

Adebayo and Herro are pick 14 and 13. Spurs drafted 11 this season.

First time the Spurs picked in the top 15 since '97, yet this team has been sucking since nephew left the building (that's 3 seasons ago, if you're keeping track)


That's the thing this idiot doesn't understand. The Heat hardly tanked. Then he tries to select years from the Spurs where it wasn't even plausible for them to tank. Absolutely no logic is being used. Just nonsense from a whiny fan.

I understand just fine. This Spurs team should've tanked the minute nephew left the building. They didn't. They've been horrible ever since. There's no 'reload' taking place here, period.

We did it to land Tim and Pop made a career out of it, but now it's this out of this world idea?

[rjv]

It could be a case of both that Memphis is really this good and the Spurs just don't match up well with them. We'll know how good the Spurs really are by the end of this month.

agreed. and the only other team this season that has beaten the spurs in similar fashion has been utah. the one thing both of these teams have in common is head coaches that have been a part of the spurs system so maybe there's something to that. at any rate, i'll be watching to see how memphis fares against the pacers tonight.

[tbdog]

First time the Spurs picked in the top 15 since '97, yet this team has been sucking since nephew left the building (that's 3 seasons ago, if you're keeping track)



I understand just fine. This Spurs team should've tanked the minute nephew left the building. They didn't. They've been horrible ever since. There's no 'reload' taking place here, period.

We did it to land Tim and Pop made a career out of it, but now it's this out of this world idea?

Okay, so how did the heat do it better?

[TimDunkem]

Okay, so how did the heat do it better?

They're not afraid to cut their losses and make moves for one.

[tbdog]

They're not afraid to cut their losses and make moves for one.

What losses did Heat cut?

[BackHome]

its Obvious Pop doesn’t want to deal with a rebuild and he doesn’t have to worry about getting fired so in limbo we stay. I am really hoping that Spurs are able to move Mills and Rudy for a late first or early second that would be the best outcome for both parties. As far as next season definitely need to move on from LMA and Derozz and start to really find out who wants to be the top Alpha on our team.

Don’t Bring Back:
1. LMA - Thanks for everything go sign and retire a Trail Blazer
2. Lyles - Yeah wish ya the best
3. Rudy - Thanks for the memories go try and get with a team that might get ya a ring
4. Derozz- LOOSING him for nothing is going to piss me off but I am willing to be pissed
5. Mills - he wants playing time I am torn I like him but his minutes will have to drop for younger players.

[itzsoweezee]

As bad as things are now, it’s probably going to be really bleak next year if the Spurs don’t land one of the superstars available in the upcoming draft

Example #1080 why you should not let the coach make personnel decisions.

[gambit1990]

"might be time to tank" is such a 2018 thing to say :lol

[cd021]

All the better if that's what it looks like from the surface. Pretty sure it's misleading in some shape or form that I'm too lazy to look into right now. It's either the SL that's so bad defensively or someone else in the line-up is carrying them to make that stat look good. As far as Mills.... the guy thinks he's Iverson out there and sure, he's been on fire for a good amount of games, but it's hardly ever within the flow of the offense. But I'm glad he's making them and I hope he continues to make them so that we could fool someone by the trade deadline (or S&T in the off-season).

It makes sense that that lineup is effective defensively tbh Murray and Vassell are both above average defenders who are defending opposing bench guards while Poeltl is an effective rim protector. Gay has been a decent team defender, leaving only Mills as a weak link. I don't think its a fluke.

Offensively, he's largely been strong. He does highjack the bench offense a lot but he tends to get results. I think he's certainly upped his value. If they moved him, they'd certainly ask for a first and would probably get it.

[cd021]

its Obvious Pop doesn’t want to deal with a rebuild and he doesn’t have to worry about getting fired so in limbo we stay. I am really hoping that Spurs are able to move Mills and Rudy for a late first or early second that would be the best outcome for both parties. As far as next season definitely need to move on from LMA and Derozz and start to really find out who wants to be the top Alpha on our team.

Don’t Bring Back:
1. LMA - Thanks for everything go sign and retire a Trail Blazer
2. Lyles - Yeah wish ya the best
3. Rudy - Thanks for the memories go try and get with a team that might get ya a ring
4. Derozz- LOOSING him for nothing is going to piss me off but I am willing to be pissed
5. Mills - he wants playing time I am torn I like him but his minutes will have to drop for younger players.

I've been operating under the assumption that the Spurs didn't move the vets because they wanted to give Pop the most competitive team possible. Depending on how things went and the offers, they'd be willing to at least listen to offers come the trade deadline. They may still listen but I doubt they move DDR and Aldridge but I could see them possibly moving Gay and/ or Mills or even package them together for assets.

I think Pop retires after this season and Becky is the HC next season, overseeing a rebuild/reboot.

[Ice009]

All the better if that's what it looks like from the surface. Pretty sure it's misleading in some shape or form that I'm too lazy to look into right now. It's either the SL that's so bad defensively or someone else in the line-up is carrying them to make that stat look good. As far as Mills.... the guy thinks he's Iverson out there and sure, he's been on fire for a good amount of games, but it's hardly ever within the flow of the offense. But I'm glad he's making them and I hope he continues to make them so that we could fool someone by the trade deadline (or S&T in the off-season).

I was hoping for this too, but don't you remember EricB's post where he said he heard from someone in the organization that there is no way they're trading Patty? :(. This is pretty disheartening if they're not willing to move him just because he's a "good guy". When did this shit start happening? It sure wasn't the case back in 1999 to about 2005. The Spurs had no problem cutting anyone that didn't perform, or anyone that didn't fit in towards winning games, so why are they clinging to certain players now? What changed? I have the same attitude as back then, why has Pop gone soft since then and clings to players that aren't very good?

For example, Patty has sucked for about 3 years (since getting that ridiculously overpriced contract that I still think Kawhi saw along with the Gasol one and said "fuck this." I think that is the point where he started thinking about leaving), but is playing well to start this season for the first time in a long time. It's also a contract year, so if someone makes any kind of decent offer, I'd trade him immediately. I don't understand why they wouldn't consider this. 13-15 good games to start this season off Vs 3 shitty years, what's there to keep? He'd be better off on a team competing for the Championship. He's worthless to the Spurs IMO if they want to get back into contention. He's not going to get us there, he's only going to hamper other players developing by eating up their minutes.

[Dejounte]

I was hoping for this too, but don't you remember EricB's post where he said he heard from someone in the organization that there is no way they're trading Patty? :(. This is pretty disheartening if they're not willing to move him just because he's a "good guy". When did this shit start happening? It sure wasn't the case back in 1999 to about 2005. The Spurs had no problem cutting anyone that didn't perform, or anyone that didn't fit in towards winning games, so why are they clinging to certain players now? What changed? I have the same attitude as back then, why has Pop gone soft since then and clings to players that aren't very good?

For example, Patty has sucked for about 3 years (since getting that ridiculously overpriced contract that I still think Kawhi saw along with the Gasol one and said "fuck this." I think that is the point where he started thinking about leaving), but is playing well to start this season for the first time in a long time. It's also a contract year, so if someone makes any kind of decent offer, I'd trade him immediately. I don't understand why they wouldn't consider this. 13-15 good games to start this season off Vs 3 shitty years, what's there to keep? He'd be better off on a team competing for the Championship. He's worthless to the Spurs IMO if they want to get back into contention. He's not going to get us there, he's only going to hamper other players developing by eating up their minutes.

Meh, if Patty is as beloved within the organization as we all think he is, that kind of intel would be kept close-guarded. So unless EricB is RC Buford himself, I highly doubt anyone knows if Patty will be traded or not traded. I have my own confidence in Patty not being a Spur next year that I'm willing to bet anyone. I already have a bet on this with Titan.

[ElNono]

Okay, so how did the heat do it better?

They collected picks in the top 15 that ended up giving them some players to build on (ie: Adebayo).

What is the Spurs strategy this season? Ride out with the old farts again for an 6th-8th position, get kicked out in the 1st round and pick in the 20's again? Is that the barometer for a 'good' season with this team?

[daslicer]

They collected picks in the top 15 that ended up giving them some players to build on (ie: Adebayo).

What is the Spurs strategy this season? Ride out with the old farts again for an 6th-8th position, get kicked out in the 1st round and pick in the 20's again? Is that the barometer for a 'good' season with this team?

It's good for Pop's ego so the media can suck off of him and say "Amazing coaching job by Pop. The spurs should have been in the lottery but he got them into the playoffs."

[ElNono]

It's good for Pop's ego so the media can suck off of him and say "Amazing coaching job by Pop. The spurs should have been in the lottery but he got them into the playoffs."

:lol

you're thinking of the incisive SA media that throws him softball questions left and right... rofl

[davi78239]

And the Pacers are beating their asses right now (grizz). Imagine that...

[tbdog]

They collected picks in the top 15 that ended up giving them some players to build on (ie: Adebayo).

What is the Spurs strategy this season? Ride out with the old farts again for an 6th-8th position, get kicked out in the 1st round and pick in the 20's again? Is that the barometer for a 'good' season with this team?

Heat last 3 picks were Herro and pick 13, Adebayo at 14, and Winslow at 10. They didn't have a pick in 2018. They spent money on players like Whiteside, James Johnson, Olynyk, Waiters, Josh Richardson, Josh McRoberts, and Windslow. They dumped Richardson, Whiteside, Windslow, Johnsons, for Butler and Iggy.


Again, how have they done it better? They had a winning, no-nonsense culture which won Butler. They also had 3 picks under 15, and 2 have worked out well. We are going through the same path as them.

[daslicer]

:lol

you're thinking of the incisive SA media that throws him softball questions left and right... rofl

Believe it or not the national media starts hyping up Pop whenever the spurs have a small modicum of success. I heard Shaq screaming the other day before the 2 grizzlies losses that the Spurs system was making them relevant again.

Other than SA being a small market I would say Pop is the other reason why players don't want to come here because they know any success they have will be diminished by the media screaming "Pop made blah blah great and it's Pop causing the Spurs to succeed." I don't like Kawhi but I do believe Pop getting all the credit was one of the reasons he pulled the bs move and got out of here. How many times did we here "System player" by the media when it came to Kawhi?

Pop knows this deep down inside that he gets all the credit for whatever success the Spurs has and that's why he's still here. He's an ego maniac.

[cjw]

This is a transitional year, and as some have said a “win win”, with a ton of flexibility heading into the summer with a solid young core under contract. There are many worse teams to be a fan of.

And if people are complaining that we are wasting a season by finishing in the 6-10 range in the west and being first round fodder while sacrificing a pick, look at how well PATFO has drafted given position the past five years. Murray/Keldon/White all at 29, and Vassell 11 / Walker 18. Saminic may still turn into something. Heck, even a guy they picked at 30 after the title season back is a valuable piece for the Grizz. They’ll be just fine no matter where they draft.

[ElNono]

Heat last 3 picks were Herro and pick 13, Adebayo at 14, and Winslow at 10. They didn't have a pick in 2018. They spent money on players like Whiteside, James Johnson, Olynyk, Waiters, Josh Richardson, Josh McRoberts, and Windslow. They dumped Richardson, Whiteside, Windslow, Johnsons, for Butler and Iggy.

Again, how have they done it better? They had a winning, no-nonsense culture which won Butler. They also had 3 picks under 15, and 2 have worked out well. We are going through the same path as them.

lmao no, we're not. We don't have the money or the market to sign a Butler-type talent, because we throw stupid money at losers like LMA and over the hill guys like Patty. We spent years giving minutes to scrubs like FatHead and Forbes on this team.

When the Spurs actually had the option to trade nephew for Butler, we ended up with DeFrozen instead. The fact that they had 3 picks under 15 is a testament of their FO pushing the right buttons.

And no, they didn't 'dump' Whiteside, he was part of the 4 team trade that brought Butler to the Heat. Is the kind of ballsy trade move this FO never makes.

Answer the question, what is the Spurs strategy this season? First round out and pick in the 20's again? Tell me what this team goal is. Clearly not good enough to contend, what are we shooting for here?

[Rummpd]

I've said it since pre-season:

When people were expecting this team to be a bottom 10 team before the regular season even started, I said, "You find out what the team's true identity is after 15+ games in."

And lo and behold, I was right and cliffjumpers were wrong. The team was better than expected by cliffjumpers and I can now have an informed opinion about what the Spurs are after 21 games:

1. they are not a bottom 10 team.
2. They will win against good teams, and lose bad against bad teams
3. At worst, they're a 0.500 team. At best? It's hard to know.


So the bottom line is mediocrity for years forward with a FO that fails to make the big move and a HOF coach who seems to be over the hill? (What happened with Memphis is regression to the mean)

[tbdog]

lmao no, we're not. We don't have the money or the market to sign a Butler-type talent, because we throw stupid money at losers like LMA and over the hill guys like Patty. We spent years giving minutes to scrubs like FatHead and Forbes on this team.

When the Spurs actually had the option to trade nephew for Butler, we ended up with DeFrozen instead. The fact that they had 3 picks under 15 is a testament of their FO pushing the right buttons.

And no, they didn't 'dump' Whiteside, he was part of the 4 team trade that brought Butler to the Heat. Is the kind of ballsy trade move this FO never makes.

Answer the question, what is the Spurs strategy this season? First round out and pick in the 20's again? Tell me what this team goal is. Clearly not good enough to contend, what are we shooting for here?

They gave minutes to the guys I mentioned. They didn't choose DDR over Butler. They dumped Whiteside so they could get the cap space to get Butler. I am still not sure what the main difference is?

[Dejounte]

So the bottom line is mediocrity for years forward with a FO that fails to make the big move and a HOF coach who seems to be over the hill? (What happened with Memphis is regression to the mean)

Mediocrity for years forward? No... The team will move forward from its vets sooner than later and the young guys will be better than they are now. That, and we have the biggest offseason coming up. I don't know why this all means "mediocrity for years" for you. I mean, it's clear the team is one competent big man away from being a playoff team (if they aren't one already), and maybe one big development year away from one of our current young players to blossom into a star for us to become serious playoff threats.

[LeBowen]

Mediocrity for years forward? No... The team will move forward from its vets sooner than later and the young guys will be better than they are now. That, and we have the biggest offseason coming up. I don't know why this all means mediocrity for years for you.


As you said, the biggest offseason, but PATFO's track record points to extensions for Patty and Demar.
That would be the last nail in the coffin.

If we had a GM that was willing to make the right moves, I'd be optimistic. With PATFO, I'm preparing myself for a couple more years of Demar's mediocrity.

[Dejounte]

As you said, the biggest offseason, but PATFO's track record points to extensions for Patty and Demar.
That would be the last nail in the coffin.

If we had a GM that was willing to make the right moves, I'd be optimistic. With PATFO, I'm preparing myself for a couple more years of Demar's mediocrity.

Track record pointed to Pop not playing his young guys and people cried about it all offseason. Keldon is getting minutes more than we ever dreamed of.

People were crying constantly that Forbes would be re-signed for many years. That didn't happen.

People whined and whined during pre-season about this team will have one of the worst records in the league by season's end. That's clearly not happening.

Track record pointed to Dejounte being a complete bust. That didn't happen either.

People are moving onto the next thing to cry about every time each wish of theirs has come true.

Everything just takes time.

[diego]

Probably not the greatest contribution to the discussion but I feel both nono and dejounte/tbdog have valid points, just arguing over who decides if grey is good or bad...

1) spurs are transitioning to a younger core built mostly through good drafting and development, the team has a track record in those departments and while obviously not at their best level there are still notable positives for the team and it would be hard to name more than five teams who handle that part of team building better than them...

2) FO has a tendency to be conservative, when kawhi left he destroyed the team and they haven't been able to internalize that all the vets no longer have a place on a team that can barely make the playoffs...

I don't agree that finishing 7-10 automatically makes you a treadmill team. There's circumstance and there's processes and teams have to grow together etc etc, tanking for duncan is a terrible example in that sense because you're not gonna have another 4 year player come in day one and be a top 3 guy for 10 years straight,that was a miracle you can't expect to repeat...

IMO the fo tried to salvage the situation with a valid strategy but Aldridge and derozan weren't up to expectations and now they have to make their move. If they resign these guys and continue finishing in no man's land, I'll agree with nono, but I prefer this method of trying to be good today and tomorrow then to go the hinkie-morey route of trying to win on paper...

[Poolboy5623]

Spurs tanking lol... they're just not that good.

[JADG79]

If we can trade LMA for salary dumb, maybe we can try to trade for Drummond to resolve our rebounds problems this season.
We can dump him next season.
With a guy like Drummond in the paint our guys can shoot a little more wide open

Cleveland is all with Jarrett Allen that was a gift for a 1st round pick.

[rankingtear]

They are playing LA and Lonnie, that sort of tanking.

[kht]

lmao no, we're not. We don't have the money or the market to sign a Butler-type talent, because we throw stupid money at losers like LMA and over the hill guys like Patty. We spent years giving minutes to scrubs like FatHead and Forbes on this team.

When the Spurs actually had the option to trade nephew for Butler, we ended up with DeFrozen instead. The fact that they had 3 picks under 15 is a testament of their FO pushing the right buttons.

And no, they didn't 'dump' Whiteside, he was part of the 4 team trade that brought Butler to the Heat. Is the kind of ballsy trade move this FO never makes.

Answer the question, what is the Spurs strategy this season? First round out and pick in the 20's again? Tell me what this team goal is. Clearly not good enough to contend, what are we shooting for here?

The LMA signing at the time was great... LMA netted us back to back 60 win seasons and WCF birth (probably two WCF and at least one championship if we don't get Zaza'ed). Things would be so different if GS didn't magically become a historic team overnight.

[Dirks_Finale]

Pop knows this deep down inside that he gets all the credit for whatever success the Spurs has and that's why he's still here. He's an ego maniac.

I am starting to think this is accurate. What is he accomplishing by hanging around at this point? He's just killing his sterling all time winning percentage. Credit to Phil for being bright enough to walk away before that happened.

I guess Pop really wants to be showered with praise for getting a subpar team to the playoffs...or maybe he's hoping Keldon develops into a star so he can leave the franchise in good hands.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

A cliff jumping thread after a pair of bad losses??? Surprising.



We're already rebuilding. How would you even propose a "tanking"? Chances are we not resigning either DDR or LMA this offseason, so conceivably both of our veteran all-stars are gone after this season. After that it's all youth building towards a better future. The only reason we're above .500 now is our young guys...it's not our amazing veteran leadership.

So, honestly, I don't know what you're proposing. We can't help it if the young guys we're getting late in the draft are ending up being better than many top-10 lottery picks. How do we tank exactly? And what do we get with that tank? Do we get rid of the entire roster? Next season we'll likely have the youngest roster in the league. If that's not rebuilding I'm not sure what is.



Dumb thread.

[rjv]

memphis got scorched by indy last night.

[Dejounte]

memphis got scorched by indy last night.

It's a common trend nowadays for good teams to be beaten badly by bad teams.

[r0drig0lac]

It's a common trend nowadays for good teams to be beaten badly by bad teams.?

[Dejounte]

?

Not sure why you quoted me...

[daslicer]

I am starting to think this is accurate. What is he accomplishing by hanging around at this point? He's just killing his sterling all time winning percentage. Credit to Phil for being bright enough to walk away before that happened.

I guess Pop really wants to be showered with praise for getting a subpar team to the playoffs...or maybe he's hoping Keldon develops into a star so he can leave the franchise in good hands.

Phil experienced mediocrity from '05-'07 with the Lakers being a first round team. I think that experience humbled him in the sense that he never wanted to be part of a rebuilding project ever again. Pop is more stubborn than Phil in the sense this is year 4 of mediocrity and Pop is still here.

[ElNono]

They gave minutes to the guys I mentioned. They didn't choose DDR over Butler. They dumped Whiteside so they could get the cap space to get Butler. I am still not sure what the main difference is?

This is what Portland said about Whiteside: "Acquiring Hassan is an impact move for our roster,” said Olshey. “He is an elite shot blocker, rebounder and paint presence on both ends of the floor. We have pursued Hassan through multiple avenues at various times in his career and are ecstatic to be adding him to our organization”.

Does that sound like a dump to you? We don't have assets like that. We spent stupid time and money in guys like Fathead and Forbes and let them walk (because, frankly, they're not very good).

Without including Whiteside the Butler trade doesn't happen, that's the difference. Simply a matter of matching salaries. To do that you need to have players that are sought after.

Your second dodge of the question is duly noted...

[JuneJive]

Didn't know where to put this...

The Spurs have the league’s easiest next five weeks in regard to opposing offenses, with only two of their 16 games against teams that currently rank in the top 10 offensively and 11 against teams that currently rank in the bottom 10.

Via - John Schuhmann

[tbdog]

This is what Portland said about Whiteside: "Acquiring Hassan is an impact move for our roster,” said Olshey. “He is an elite shot blocker, rebounder and paint presence on both ends of the floor. We have pursued Hassan through multiple avenues at various times in his career and are ecstatic to be adding him to our organization”.

Does that sound like a dump to you? We don't have assets like that. We spent stupid time and money in guys like Fathead and Forbes and let them walk (because, frankly, they're not very good).

Without including Whiteside the Butler trade doesn't happen, that's the difference. Simply a matter of matching salaries. To do that you need to have players that are sought after.

Your second dodge of the question is duly noted...

Whiteside is playing backup in Sac . Portland used him for one year. We didn't pay Anderson and Forbes one bit. Also Forbes is in the rotation for a contending team now. Againz Heat played and paid Waiters, James Johnson, Roberts for example.

So how have the Heat done things differently? I'm not letting this go Elnono. You want to say stupid shit and constantly move the goal post, then I've challenge you to defend your position.

[Arcadian]

:lol Pretty much, yeah

[ElNono]

Whiteside is playing backup in Sac . Portland used him for one year. We didn't pay Anderson and Forbes one bit. Also Forbes is in the rotation for a contending team now. Againz Heat played and paid Waiters, James Johnson, Roberts for example.

So how have the Heat done things differently? I'm not letting this go Elnono. You want to say stupid shit and constantly move the goal post, then I've challenge you to defend your position.

:lol How am I moving the goalposts? You're the one moving the goalposts saying that Whiteside now doesn't have the same value than when the trade was made, when we're discussing the trade that landed them Butler.

The fact is that you can only make trades like that when you have the salary and talent to move around. The Heat sold Whiteside when his value was up, that's what good teams do.

That's what the Spurs should've done with LMA while his value was still high and he was in his early 30s. Right now you're going to only get cents on the dollar for him.

There's simply not way to spin that the Heat made that move and it got them to the NBA Finals, and objectively call it anything but a good move for them. That's exactly what every team tries to do, so I don't even know why we're having this conversation.

I'm not the one that said the Heat should've done anything differently, I'm addressing the question that was posed here, whether Spurs fan or Heat fan should be happier with their current situation.

I'm not letting this go either. You can start by explaining how the Spurs FO strategy in the past 3-4 years lines up to anything close to what the Heat has done to show up in the NBA Finals and what the current strategy is to get there. Eager to hear what your stupid shit sounds like.

[Dejounte]

"You can start by explaining how the Spurs FO strategy in the past 3-4 years lines up to anything close to what the Heat has done to show up in the NBA Finals and what the current strategy is to get there."

The Heat have done the same exact thing. They've competed every year before they made the Finals. This mother fucker is stupid.

What this idiot fails to acknowledge is that Heat fans aren't anymore happier about their current situation than Spurs fans are.

[BatManu20]

Spurs are stuck in NBA purgatory — Not good enough to compete for anything meaningful, not bad enough to select high enough for a franchise player in the draft (unless they strike gold like they did with Nephew — highly unlikely.

This team will never tank though. Not part of the organization’s culture. We’re likely to be stuck in limbo for a while. Just the way it is unfortunately.

[ElNono]

"You can start by explaining how the Spurs FO strategy in the past 3-4 years lines up to anything close to what the Heat has done to show up in the NBA Finals and what the current strategy is to get there."

The Heat have done the same exact thing. They've competed every year before they made the Finals. This mother fucker is stupid.

What this idiot fails to acknowledge is that Heat fans aren't anymore happier about their current situation than Spurs fans are.

:lol how is it the same thing? They traded half their roster for a star in Butler, collected and been building via top 15 picks. That landed them in the NBA Finals... how is that remotely similar to what the Spurs have been doing?

The last big trade the Spurs made was forced on them by a disgruntled player. One top 15 pick since 1997.

"Bad takes" strikes again, smh

[r0drig0lac]

Not sure why you quoted me...

the indirect claim that Memphis is better than Indiana or that Indiana is a bad team is so strange that it needs confirmation.

[Dejounte]

:lol how is it the same thing? They traded half their roster for a star in Butler, collected and been building via top 15 picks. That landed them in the NBA Finals... how is that remotely similar to what the Spurs have been doing?

The last big trade the Spurs made was forced on them by a disgruntled player. One top 15 pick since 1997.

"Bad takes" strikes again, smh

You're not really trying to have a serious discussion when you claim the Heat "collected" top 15 picks as if they were actively tanking (which you criticize the Spurs for not doing). Your argument is disingenuous and you're just trying to be an idiot tip toeing around valid points. Keep on being the troll you are, or better yet just use your alts to do it. Loser :lmao

[Dejounte]

the indirect claim that Memphis is better than Indiana or that Indiana is a bad team is so strange that it needs confirmation.

It was a general comment towards the current state of the NBA. When people use Memphis losing to Indiana as a measuring stick for the Spurs, one can look at the Clippers losing by 50 earlier in the season.

[ElNono]

You're not really trying to have a serious discussion when you claim the Heat "collected" top 15 picks as if they were actively tanking (which you criticize the Spurs for not doing). Your argument is disingenuous and you're just trying to be an idiot tip toeing around valid points. Keep on being the troll you are, or better yet just use your alts to do it. Loser :lmao

There's only two ways to collect top 15 picks: tanking or trading for them. The Spurs don't have the assets to trade for them, so that leaves tanking. This isn't very complicated.

If you're not going to use your head, just stop posting, tbh

[Dejounte]

There's only two ways to collect top 15 picks: tanking or trading for them. The Spurs don't have the assets to trade for them, so that leaves tanking. This isn't very complicated.

If you're not going to use your head, just stop posting, tbh

10/10

Keep trolling

Needs alts to keep his life busy :lmao

Get a job. Go outside.

[ElNono]

10/10

Keep trolling

Needs alts to keep his life busy :lmao

Get a job. Go outside.

:lol I don't have alts...

And the fact that you've now attacked me personally instead of addressing the stupid shit you just posted proves exactly my point. :tu

You said something stupid and you got called out for it, it happens, tbh...

[Dejounte]

The Spurs had the #11 pick last year. I guess they tanked by your logic.

Big hole in your "argument".

:lmao :lmao

[Dejounte]

:lol I don't have alts...

And the fact that you've now attacked me personally instead of addressing the stupid shit you just posted proves exactly my point. :tu

You said something stupid and you got called out for it, it happens, tbh...

Keep wasting your life living different identities, fucking loser.

[ElNono]

lmao son, yes they sucked balls last year, that's the point. The question is why that hasn't been done for the previous 3 and why are we even trying to win this year.

turns out that having a pick at #11 was great, who would've thought! rofl

[ElNono]

Keep wasting your life living different identities, fucking loser.

that's telling me :lmao

[tbdog]

:lol How am I moving the goalposts? You're the one moving the goalposts saying that Whiteside now doesn't have the same value than when the trade was made, when we're discussing the trade that landed them Butler.

The fact is that you can only make trades like that when you have the salary and talent to move around. The Heat sold Whiteside when his value was up, that's what good teams do.

That's what the Spurs should've done with LMA while his value was still high and he was in his early 30s. Right now you're going to only get cents on the dollar for him.

There's simply not way to spin that the Heat made that move and it got them to the NBA Finals, and objectively call it anything but a good move for them. That's exactly what every team tries to do, so I don't even know why we're having this conversation.

I'm not the one that said the Heat should've done anything differently, I'm addressing the question that was posed here, whether Spurs fan or Heat fan should be happier with their current situation.

I'm not letting this go either. You can start by explaining how the Spurs FO strategy in the past 3-4 years lines up to anything close to what the Heat has done to show up in the NBA Finals and what the current strategy is to get there. Eager to hear what your stupid shit sounds like.

Butler chose that team. Butler chose a team with no cap space. The heat had a 39/43 record the season before. The heat moved overpaid role players in Whiteside and Richardson to make the deal work. You can't say fans preferred to be Heat fans than Spurs fans now when before that deal, the Heat were worse. They had Ryan Anderson at 20mil. They had James Johnson at 14mil. Waiters at 12mil. Their best player was Dragic.

A star player picked them. That's just how it goes and they moved cap around to make it happen. The Spurs could do the same last off season if a star picked them. The spurs can make it work even easier if a star picked them this coming offseason.

Losing LMA/Gay/DDR/Mills for cap space is just as good as moving them for assets. Spurs are building a team and waiting for a star player. That was just how the Heat were a few seasons ago. They did not have a good team.

And finally, I am not sure if the Heat run last season can be compared to any other season. It was a weird bubble environment. Bucks lost lots of momentum and 76ers got injuries. The Heat record is pretty poor thus far. I am doubtful they will make another run.

[ElNono]

Butler chose that team. Butler chose a team with no cap space. The heat had a 39/43 record the season before. The heat moved overpaid role players in Whiteside and Richardson to make the deal work. You can't say fans preferred to be Heat fans than Spurs fans now when before that deal, the Heat were worse. They had Ryan Anderson at 20mil. They had James Johnson at 14mil. Waiters at 12mil. Their best player was Dragic.

A star player picked them. That's just how it goes and they moved cap around to make it happen. The Spurs could do the same last off season if a star picked them. The spurs can make it work even easier if a star picked them this coming offseason.

Butler chose that team because they're a good market. Works the same with NY or LA. This is something the Spurs never really had and still don't have and it's very unlikely they'll ever have. LMA was probably the odd one out, and that's when we still had the Big 3 + Kawhi around, and coming out of a championship.

Plus, as you described and I pointed out, the Heat had good picks to build something around them. Similar to when Lebron went back to the Cavs. Not only they could pay him, they just picked early in the draft and still had some more picks in the next couple years.

I never claimed that Heat fans were happier than Spurs fans before the trade. I claimed that Heat fans are happier now after just making a run to the Finals. And the reason I make that claim is that I could only imagine what this forum would look like if we just lost the Finals last year. I was here the last time that happened and it was much more different than it looks now.


Losing LMA/Gay/DDR/Mills for cap space is just as good as moving them for assets. Spurs are building a team and waiting for a star player. That was just how the Heat were a few seasons ago. They did not have a good team.

And finally, I am not sure if the Heat run last season can be compared to any other season. It was a weird bubble environment. Bucks lost lots of momentum and 76ers got injuries. The Heat record is pretty poor thus far. I am doubtful they will make another run.

I don't disagree with much of this, other than pointing out that it's probably better if you can swing them for top 15 picks. Having capspace is only relatively good if you can entice star talent to come to your team. The Spurs historically simply have not been a premiere destination for star players. It sucks, and it's related to the market convo above, but it's also true.

[tbdog]

Butler chose that team because they're a good market. Works the same with NY or LA. This is something the Spurs never really had and still don't have and it's very unlikely they'll ever have. LMA was probably the odd one out, and that's when we still had the Big 3 + Kawhi around, and coming out of a championship.

Plus, as you described and I pointed out, the Heat had good picks to build something around them. Similar to when Lebron went back to the Cavs. Not only they could pay him, they just picked early in the draft and still had some more picks in the next couple years.

I never claimed that Heat fans were happier than Spurs fans before the trade. I claimed that Heat fans are happier now after just making a run to the Finals. And the reason I make that claim is that I could only imagine what this forum would look like if we just lost the Finals last year. I was here the last time that happened and it was much more different than it looks now.



I don't disagree with much of this, other than pointing out that it's probably better if you can swing them for top 15 picks. Having capspace is only relatively good if you can entice star talent to come to your team. The Spurs historically simply have not been a premiere destination for star players. It sucks, and it's related to the market convo above, but it's also true.


See, you can't say the Spurs need to go down the same path as Heat but then have a disclaimer that they can't because Miami is a big market and SA is not.

I showed you that they didn't have good picks. Windslow is pick 10 and they got rid of him. It's actually pick 14 that they got an allstar center. So, no, you don't need good picks to build something around them. Keldron Johnson is pick 29. Who would you pick before him?

Tanking has proven to mostly not work. Occasionally it does. Take the 76ers. Epic tank jobs for years in a row. Worst team in history. Longest losing streak in history. They haven't got any trophies to showcase the tank job.

[J_Paco]

A cliff jumping thread after a pair of bad losses??? Surprising.



We're already rebuilding. How would you even propose a "tanking"? Chances are we not resigning either DDR or LMA this offseason, so conceivably both of our veteran all-stars are gone after this season. After that it's all youth building towards a better future. The only reason we're above .500 now is our young guys...it's not our amazing veteran leadership.

So, honestly, I don't know what you're proposing. We can't help it if the young guys we're getting late in the draft are ending up being better than many top-10 lottery picks. How do we tank exactly? And what do we get with that tank? Do we get rid of the entire roster? Next season we'll likely have the youngest roster in the league. If that's not rebuilding I'm not sure what is.



Dumb thread.

Brother, a "stupid" thread is par for the course on ST these days.

If they aren't circle jerking around Nephew like last year, they are crying about the team not tanking, if not that they are crying the greatest coach in team history is a "egomaniac."

It'll be hilarious when the day comes that old guy is gone, the team is an actual bottom feeder and they'll be pining for Pop + Big 3 era, again.

[ElNono]

See, you can't say the Spurs need to go down the same path as Heat but then have a disclaimer that they can't because Miami is a big market and SA is not.

I never claimed the Spurs need to go down the same path as the Heat... quote/link?

I actually been arguing the Spurs need to tank, because they neither have the picks the Heat had, nor have the ability to pull off the kind of trades the Heat made.


I showed you that they didn't have good picks. Windslow is pick 10 and they got rid of him. It's actually pick 14 that they got an allstar center. So, no, you don't need good picks to build something around them. Keldron Johnson is pick 29. Who would you pick before him?

Of course they had good picks. I wish the Spurs could pick in the top 15 every other year. Like you said, that landed them an allstar center. Winslow was a All-Rookie second team his first season, he was hurt a lot in his 2nd and 3rd season and became damaged goods pretty much. That happens.

Yet, the Heat managed to get something for him by making him part of the Iggy trade. Again, getting value for a guy that was going to come out of his rookie deal, instead of letting it him walk for nothing (see: fathead, forbes).


Tanking has proven to mostly not work. Occasionally it does. Take the 76ers. Epic tank jobs for years in a row. Worst team in history. Longest losing streak in history. They haven't got any trophies to showcase the tank job.

Tanking doesn't work? Do you remember how we got Tim Duncan? How did that work out?

I know the Sixers well, I went to their games for a long time since they were close to where I used to live. They held too long building around Iggy, and then when they tanked it took a while but came on the other side with Simmons, Embiid and now they have a solid roster. Even Butler signed up with them back in the day.

I have no expectations that if the Spurs tank, it will be a swift turnaround. Realistically, it rarely is (TD notwithstanding). There's no easy/quick fix here, the question is how long are we going to continue wasting time in being not good enough to contend, not shitty enough to have good picks, and also not trade anybody.

[ElNono]

It'll be hilarious when the day comes that old guy is gone, the team is an actual bottom feeder

Can't wait, tbh

[J_Paco]

Can't wait, tbh
Sure, cause Bulls & Knicks fans are experiencing so much joy pining for the days of 20+ years ago......

You'll be quickly whining and crying about whatever regime takes over, their shitty moves/coaching/players & wishing for the "good old days" when TP won FMVP & led the Spurs to multiple titles.

[ElNono]

You'll be really whining and crying about the "good old days" when TP won FMVP & led the Spurs to multiple titles.

Nobody is taking away the good old days from me or anybody else. Hopefully we don't have to be talking about the old Big 3 twenty years from now, tbh...

[J_Paco]

Nobody is taking away the good old days from me or anybody else. Hopefully we don't have to be talking about the old Big 3 twenty years from now, tbh...

Isn't my point.

Those days (or similar ones) may never be seen again and the Spurs aren't guaranteed to "get back" to being great. Fans should be going with the flow, letting Pop's time end naturally & having patience in general.

Cause when the bad times come, they'll suck and could last decades.

And I've been guilty of being impatient too, especially with how bad a taste last season had. Then I remember this "senile" old guy helped lead a team that was considered an also ran to 5 NBA championships, helped keep Tim Duncan in S.A. for nearly 20 years (and Amy Duncan) & acquired three other HOFers (Tony, Manu & Nephew) in that timespan.

[ElNono]

Isn't my point.

Those days (or similar ones) may never be seen again and the Spurs aren't guaranteed to "get back" to being great. Fans should be going with the flow, letting Pop's time end naturally & having patience in general.

Cause when the bad times come, they'll suck and could last decades.

Of course there's no guarantees that the Spurs are going to get back to being great. But if you are a fan with any sort of fiber, that's exactly what you would want to happen.

And fans have opinions. Right or wrong, they only want what they perceive is the best for the team. They wouldn't be fans otherwise. Nobody is any less of a fan because they don't agree with you.

It's not like Pop comes here and reads these posts anyways.

[J_Paco]

Of course there's no guarantees that the Spurs are going to get back to being great. But if you are a fan with any sort of fiber, that's exactly what you would want to happen.

And fans have opinions. Right or wrong, they only want what they perceive is the best for the team. They wouldn't be fans otherwise. Nobody is any less of a fan because they don't agree with you.

It's not like Pop comes here and reads these posts anyways.

Well they also need to realize that with the good times (the last twenty years) come bad times. No one stays on top forever and expecting the team or players to be perfect or to always succeed is foolish.

I get that pissing, moaning and whining is cathartic but it also makes fans (especially of an extremely successful team like the Spurs) seem entitled, spoiled and lacking perspective.

Kind of like all the things once said about Laker fans.

And this isn't college, Pop can't just recruit anyone and pick his players every year. There are salary restrictions and other rules set in place to stop teams like the Spurs from having long, sustained success (even with a superstar). Yet here we are.....

It isn't about hurting Pop's "feelings," I'm sure he's far too occupied with coaching & doesn't even know ST exists, but about having perspective and respect for his accomplishments (which brought a lot of us joy).

His coaching career is coming to an end and we'll likely never have a better person coaching the Spurs.

And the Heat went from the NBA Finals, a likely flash in the pan, to likely needing to battle to make it to the play - in game.

They are looking like the 2011 Mavericks without a NBA championship to show for it.......

And to the point of this stupid thread. Ja Morant is a top 3 pick, more talented than any young player on our roster & has proven that he can carry them to W's.

The manner that they lost was embarrassing and unacceptable (from a competitive & effort standpoint), but that they lost isn't. They put it on us a few times last year and I think the acquisition of Banes, Tillman & Dieng (better integrated this year) makes them better/deeper.

They'll be even scarier once Winslow and/or Jackson Jr. is healthy & playing at a high level. Kyle Anderson is also playing a lot better than last year and might actually be worth that "bad" contract they signed him to.

[ElNono]

Well they also need to realize that with the good times (the last twenty years) come bad times. No one stays on top forever and expecting the team or players to be perfect or to always succeed is foolish.

I get that pissing, moaning and whining is cathartic but it also makes fans (especially of an extremely successful team like the Spurs) seem entitled, spoiled and lacking perspective.

Kind of like all the things once said about Laker fans.

And this isn't college, Pop can't just recruit anyone and pick his players every year. There are salary restrictions and other rules set in place to stop teams like the Spurs from having long, sustained success (even with a superstar). Yet here we are.....

It isn't about hurting Pop's "feelings," I'm sure he's far too occupied with coaching & doesn't even know ST exists, but about having perspective and respect for his accomplishments (which brought a lot of us joy).

His coaching career is coming to an end and we'll likely never have a better person coaching the Spurs.

And the Heat went from the NBA Finals, a likely flash in the pan, to likely needing to battle to make it to the play - in game.

They are looking like the 2011 Mavericks without a NBA championship to show for it.......

Pop certainly earned the right to coach this team for as long as he wants, tbh, much to my chagrin, but we all certainly also have the right voice our opinion about it, whether somebody cares or not.

And I will disaree that Pop doesn't pick his players. Maybe not to the level of college, but it's also a lie to pretend he doesn't have an instrumental role in building the roster.

I was a fairly staunch defender of Pop (Matt Bonner notwithstanding), but since ~2015 I felt he cares more about wines and culture than basketball, and I think it shows.

As Harlem said a long time ago, why can't father time catch up to coaches too? He's won it all at the highest level, multiple times. His job and livelihood hasn't been on the line for many years now.

[J_Paco]

Pop certainly earned the right to coach this team for as long as he wants, tbh, much to my chagrin, but we all certainly also have the right voice our opinion about it, whether somebody cares or not.

And I will disaree that Pop doesn't pick his players. Maybe not to the level of college, but it's also a lie to pretend he doesn't have an instrumental role in building the roster.

I was a fairly staunch defender of Pop (Matt Bonner notwithstanding), but since ~2015 I felt he cares more about wines and culture than basketball, and I think it shows.

As Harlem said a long time ago, why can't father time catch up to coaches too? He's won it all at the highest level, multiple times. His job and livelihood hasn't been on the line for many years now.

We'll agree to disagree and Pop ain't above criticism. No one should ever be.

There is a big difference between criticism and sheer lack of respect. I didn't mean that part about disrepect directly towards you, ElNono.

It just feels like on ST people (or his "haters") assume whoever his successor is will "clean up" his mistakes and the team will win titles again. Which is far from the case.

The "treadmill years" were an eventuality & the team was going to take its lumps/have a down period with or without Pop. He likely wants that all - time wins record more than we all ever realized & that's okay with me since he's had so much success here.

I get that people are burnt out from his style of coaching or presence, think he's "lost" his touch and can't wait for him to move on.

He'll be gone soon which is either this year or the next and they'll get their wish.

[Thomas82]

Spurs are stuck in NBA purgatory — Not good enough to compete for anything meaningful, not bad enough to select high enough for a franchise player in the draft (unless they strike gold like they did with Nephew — highly unlikely.

This team will never tank though. Not part of the organization’s culture. We’re likely to be stuck in limbo for a while. Just the way it is unfortunately.

[tbdog]

I never claimed the Spurs need to go down the same path as the Heat... quote/link?

Below

And unlike Miami, we've been dogshit for 3+ seasons now, we needed to start tanking like yesterday.

Miami at least got something in return for sucking properly, not this half-assed shit we've been doing as a team for 4 years.

I'm not a Heat fan, so I don't know/care how they feel, but if my team was in the WCF last year, I would feel a lot better about the team prospects than if we're perennially in the 8-11 place and going nowhere season after season. You know why, I already explained it to you twice ITT and you haven't disputed this at all.





I actually been arguing the Spurs need to tank, because they neither have the picks the Heat had, nor have the ability to pull off the kind of trades the Heat made.


You keep bringing this up. I explained, Heat didn’t tank. They didn’t get high picks. When will you concede this point?




Of course they had good picks. I wish the Spurs could pick in the top 15 every other year. Like you said, that landed them an allstar center. Winslow was a All-Rookie second team his first season, he was hurt a lot in his 2nd and 3rd season and became damaged goods pretty much. That happens.


Again, they got that allstar center at pick 15. If Adebayo becomes a better player than LMA in his career, then good on them.



Yet, the Heat managed to get something for him by making him part of the Iggy trade. Again, getting value for a guy that was going to come out of his rookie deal, instead of letting it him walk for nothing (see: fathead, forbes).

Lebron left Miami for nothing. Remember? It happens. People leave. Forbes and Anderson were not fetching you an asset. Besides, for Anderson the Spurs felt that Bertans would offer the position of need at a cheaper price. As for Forbes, Spurs felt Walker was ready. Spurs are sitting at a full roster, there was no room for an asset for Forbes, anyway.


You don’t think Spurs would get at least and Iggy quality player (despite him being pretty much done). Did you not see his stats? This was a bad trade. Regardless, you don’t think the Spurs couldn’t get a better vet for White or Murray for example? White and Murray don’t have less stock because they were drafted in the 20’s. They are better players than Winslow, so they have more value.




Tanking doesn't work? Do you remember how we got Tim Duncan? How did that work out?

You give me one example and the Spurs hand was forced with DR and Elliot went down. But I could give you franchise of tank jobs after tank jobs. Take the Bucks for example. Plenty of tanks and it was Greek Freak at pick 15 that finally turned them around.


I know the Sixers well, I went to their games for a long time since they were close to where I used to live. They held too long building around Iggy, and then when they tanked it took a while but came on the other side with Simmons, Embiid and now they have a solid roster. Even Butler signed up with them back in the day.

Firstly, Butler was traded there, not signed. He left them because of culture apparently. Secondly, how many tank season did they have? They won 2 series.



I have no expectations that if the Spurs tank, it will be a swift turnaround. Realistically, it rarely is (TD notwithstanding). There's no easy/quick fix here, the question is how long are we going to continue wasting time in being not good enough to contend, not shitty enough to have good picks, and also not trade anybody.

Spurs are doing things right. They playing it safe, sure. But they got good young role players and cap space about to come their way. They got tradable contracts if they need to focus at a position of need. You don't know if the Spurs get a Jokic quality player at pick 20 next season. You don't know what they'll use their cap space on. A rebuild can take many forms. They are keeping assets and good role players at good contracts. You don't just trade everything away, get a top 3 pick and act like the rebuild is done. It has proven, statistically, tanks don't work.

You need to concede on your points because they have been rejected, and just enjoy this team.

[ElNono]

Below

:lol Not a single of those quotes say we need to follow Miami's path...

And unlike Miami, we've been dogshit for 3+ seasons now, we needed to start tanking like yesterday.

Fact. This team has been in 1st round fodder purgatory for 3 seasons. Last year they sucked balls even further, which landed them a good pick. Nothing about following Miami's path.

Miami at least got something in return for sucking properly, not this half-assed shit we've been doing as a team for 4 years.

Fact. Miami had three <= .500 seasons ('18-'19, '16-17, '14-'15) which is how they got their three top 15 picks. They only had one season where they were what we are, first round fodder, '17-'18... That's when they swung for the fences and pulled the trigger for the Butler trade. Nothing about following Miami's path.

I'm not a Heat fan, so I don't know/care how they feel, but if my team was in the WCF last year, I would feel a lot better about the team prospects than if we're perennially in the 8-11 place and going nowhere season after season. You know why, I already explained it to you twice ITT and you haven't disputed this at all.

Fact as well, nothing to do with 'following Miami's path'.




I actually been arguing the Spurs need to tank, because they neither have the picks the Heat had, nor have the ability to pull off the kind of trades the Heat made.


You keep bringing this up. I explained, Heat didn’t tank. They didn’t get high picks. When will you concede this point?

I didn't say the Heat tanked. I said they sucked properly. There's a pretty huge difference in finishing 6-8 and 10-12 when it comes to where you pick in the draft.

Dropping from 10-15 to 15-20 in the lottery normally does mean a fairly big drop in talent as well. If your season isn't looking great, start losing games. At that point the goal should be good positioning in the draft.



Again, they got that allstar center at pick 15. If Adebayo becomes a better player than LMA in his career, then good on them.

Well, only one of them helped his team reach the NBA Finals...


Lebron left Miami for nothing. Remember? It happens. People leave. Forbes and Anderson were not fetching you an asset. Besides, for Anderson the Spurs felt that Bertans would offer the position of need at a cheaper price. As for Forbes, Spurs felt Walker was ready. Spurs are sitting at a full roster, there was no room for an asset for Forbes, anyway.

You don’t think Spurs would get at least and Iggy quality player (despite him being pretty much done). Did you not see his stats? This was a bad trade. Regardless, you don’t think the Spurs couldn’t get a better vet for White or Murray for example? White and Murray don’t have less stock because they were drafted in the 20’s. They are better players than Winslow, so they have more value.

We all know why neither Forbes and Anderson were fetching this team an asset, and has nothing to do with having a full roster... :lol

I don't want more vets unless we're flipping Patty, Gay and LMA for some sort of star talent. Then you might need a vet (which is the situation Miami found itself in).

But because realistically nobody is touching Patty, Gay and LMA for any kind of star talent, I rather stick with White and Murray for the tank.


You give me one example and the Spurs hand was forced with DR and Elliot went down. But I could give you franchise of tank jobs after tank jobs. Take the Bucks for example. Plenty of tanks and it was Greek Freak at pick 15 that finally turned them around.

I gave you an example of a tanking that worked. DR could've certainly come back earlier, and he didn't and boy ain't we all glad he didn't.

Again, I don't guarantee that tank jobs are immediate team flippers or always work out, but in this league there isn't a whole lot of ways to acquiring top talent. You either pick them in the lottery, sign them with capspace if they want to come to your team or trade for them. That's it.

The Spurs simply do not currently have the assets to pull off such a trade and this FO has been generally allergic to pull off such trades anyways. Capspace is nice, but you have two things going with it: 1) star talent has to want to sign with you, and 2) your rooks eventually will come due for a payday, so that's where some of that money will end up.

Last option is the lottery. And the lottery system we currently have is pretty basic: it rewards teams that suck. The more you suck, the higher the odds for a better reward.


Firstly, Butler was traded there, not signed. He left them because of culture apparently. Secondly, how many tank season did they have? They won 2 series.

First, just like you said when he joined Miami, Butler wanted to be there. If Jimmy doesn't want to be traded to the Sixers, he doesn't go there, period. Second, those 2 series wins are 2 more series than the Spurs have won in the past 3 seasons combined.


Spurs are doing things right. They playing it safe, sure. But they got good young role players and cap space about to come their way. They got tradable contracts if they need to focus at a position of need. You don't know if the Spurs get a Jokic quality player at pick 20 next season. You don't know what they'll use their cap space on. A rebuild can take many forms. They are keeping assets and good role players at good contracts. You don't just trade everything away, get a top 3 pick and act like the rebuild is done. It has proven, statistically, tanks don't work.

lol no, they have none of that. Keldon looks like a good pick, that's about it. None of the high value contracts outside DeRozan, who is in a contract year, are realistically tradeable. If the team can manage to convince DeRozan to stay, that's where the cap money is going. If they do not, then we're probably out of our best trade asset. While all this happen, we have to hear every summer from that loser LMA how much he'd like to go back to Portland.

On the flipside, we might end up tanking organically after all.

[TD 21]

If the team can manage to convince DeRozan to stay, that's where the cap money is going. If they do not, then we're probably out of our best trade asset. While all this happen, we have to hear every summer from that loser LMA how much he'd like to go back to Portland.

Nah, it would have been done already and Stockholm syndrome DeRozan is even worse with his obsession with all things Raptors. He's been so desperate to go back since the moment he was traded, he's practically begging for it by constantly flirting with them.

[tbdog]

:lol Not a single of those quotes say we need to follow Miami's path...

And unlike Miami, we've been dogshit for 3+ seasons now, we needed to start tanking like yesterday.

Fact. This team has been in 1st round fodder purgatory for 3 seasons. Last year they sucked balls even further, which landed them a good pick. Nothing about following Miami's path.

Miami at least got something in return for sucking properly, not this half-assed shit we've been doing as a team for 4 years.

Fact. Miami had three <= .500 seasons ('18-'19, '16-17, '14-'15) which is how they got their three top 15 picks. They only had one season where they were what we are, first round fodder, '17-'18... That's when they swung for the fences and pulled the trigger for the Butler trade. Nothing about following Miami's path.

I'm not a Heat fan, so I don't know/care how they feel, but if my team was in the WCF last year, I would feel a lot better about the team prospects than if we're perennially in the 8-11 place and going nowhere season after season. You know why, I already explained it to you twice ITT and you haven't disputed this at all.

Fact as well, nothing to do with 'following Miami's path'.







I didn't say the Heat tanked. I said they sucked properly. There's a pretty huge difference in finishing 6-8 and 10-12 when it comes to where you pick in the draft.

Dropping from 10-15 to 15-20 in the lottery normally does mean a fairly big drop in talent as well. If your season isn't looking great, start losing games. At that point the goal should be good positioning in the draft.




Well, only one of them helped his team reach the NBA Finals...



We all know why neither Forbes and Anderson were fetching this team an asset, and has nothing to do with having a full roster... :lol

I don't want more vets unless we're flipping Patty, Gay and LMA for some sort of star talent. Then you might need a vet (which is the situation Miami found itself in).

But because realistically nobody is touching Patty, Gay and LMA for any kind of star talent, I rather stick with White and Murray for the tank.



I gave you an example of a tanking that worked. DR could've certainly come back earlier, and he didn't and boy ain't we all glad he didn't.

Again, I don't guarantee that tank jobs are immediate team flippers or always work out, but in this league there isn't a whole lot of ways to acquiring top talent. You either pick them in the lottery, sign them with capspace if they want to come to your team or trade for them. That's it.

The Spurs simply do not currently have the assets to pull off such a trade and this FO has been generally allergic to pull off such trades anyways. Capspace is nice, but you have two things going with it: 1) star talent has to want to sign with you, and 2) your rooks eventually will come due for a payday, so that's where some of that money will end up.

Last option is the lottery. And the lottery system we currently have is pretty basic: it rewards teams that suck. The more you suck, the higher the odds for a better reward.



First, just like you said when he joined Miami, Butler wanted to be there. If Jimmy doesn't want to be traded to the Sixers, he doesn't go there, period. Second, those 2 series wins are 2 more series than the Spurs have won in the past 3 seasons combined.



lol no, they have none of that. Keldon looks like a good pick, that's about it. None of the high value contracts outside DeRozan, who is in a contract year, are realistically tradeable. If the team can manage to convince DeRozan to stay, that's where the cap money is going. If they do not, then we're probably out of our best trade asset. While all this happen, we have to hear every summer from that loser LMA how much he'd like to go back to Portland.

On the flipside, we might end up tanking organically after all.

You just constantly move the goal post. It's difficult just to have a normal conversation. I chuckled at your 76ers comment. They won 2 series at the expense as the worst team in history. They were a joke. But because they won more series than Spurs, it's a good strategy. Please, just admit your stance is statistically wrong.

[ElNono]

You just constantly move the goal post. It's difficult just to have a normal conversation. I chuckled at your 76ers comment. They won 2 series at the expense as the worst team in history. They were a joke. But because they won more series than Spurs, it's a good strategy. Please, just admit your stance is statistically wrong.

:lol that's convenient, but the only poster here that keeps saying I said things I did not is you, not me.

Turns out the Sixers are a joke team, yet they did better than the Spurs in the last 3 seasons... but the Spurs are fine and not a joke!!! :jack

[ElNono]

Nah, it would have been done already and Stockholm syndrome DeRozan is even worse with his obsession with all things Raptors. He's been so desperate to go back since the moment he was traded, he's practically begging for it by constantly flirting with them.

I don't expect him to stay with an old and sulking LMA next to him either, tbh... then again, will the Raptors have the cap space to sign him?

[tbdog]

:lol that's convenient, but the only poster here that keeps saying I said things I did not is you, not me.

Turns out the Sixers are a joke team, yet they did better than the Spurs in the last 3 seasons... but the Spurs are fine and not a joke!!! :jack

I quoted you and you moved the goal post. You compared Spurs to Miami sucking properly.



I didn't say the Heat tanked. I said they sucked properly.

That's the goal post moving.

[daslicer]

I don't expect him to stay with an old and sulking LMA next to him either, tbh... then again, will the Raptors have the cap space to sign him?

The Knicks really want him badly. Look for them to sign him.

[TD 21]

I don't expect him to stay with an old and sulking LMA next to him either, tbh... then again, will the Raptors have the cap space to sign him?

I don't think that has anything to do with it. They more than likely aren't interest in extending him and he more than likely would prefer to move on anyway.

They will and as much as they probably don't want to turn back to him, they have a clear need for his skillset and he'd fit well with their core and as a Lowry replacement (he'll probably end up with the 76ers or Clippers).

[Robz4000]

I don't think that has anything to do with it. They more than likely aren't interest in extending him and he more than likely would prefer to move on anyway.

They will and as much as they probably don't want to turn back to him, they have a clear need for his skillset and he'd fit well with their core and as a Lowry replacement (he'll probably end up with the 76ers or Clippers).

:lol I'd love to see the meltdown here and reactions everywhere if DePression goes back to Toronto

[Dejounte]

:lol I'd love to see the meltdown here and reactions everywhere if DePression goes back to Toronto

It would be a bad thing???

[Robz4000]

It would be a bad thing???

Anything that gets him off the team is a good thing, but a lot of posters would melt down if he went back to the team that cucked him.

[Ice009]

Anything that gets him off the team is a good thing, but a lot of posters would melt down if he went back to the team that cucked him.

Yep. This is the reason. It'll show just how mentally weak he is if he goes back to the Raptors. They dumped him and to crawl back to them would be crazy. I'd never do it no matter what amount of money they offered.

[ElNono]

I quoted you and you moved the goal post. You compared Spurs to Miami sucking properly.

That's the goal post moving.

You did quote me, here it is:


Miami at least got something in return for sucking properly, not this half-assed shit we've been doing as a team for 4 years.

Does that says Miami tanked or sucked properly?

Still waiting for a link/quote where I said we should follow Miami's path... as you claim I said.

[ElNono]

I don't think that has anything to do with it. They more than likely aren't interest in extending him and he more than likely would prefer to move on anyway.

They will and as much as they probably don't want to turn back to him, they have a clear need for his skillset and he'd fit well with their core and as a Lowry replacement (he'll probably end up with the 76ers or Clippers).

Who do you see the Spurs targeting? I hate to say it, but he's indeed our best trade asset right now.

[tbdog]

You did quote me, here it is:



Does that says Miami tanked or sucked properly?

Still waiting for a link/quote where I said we should follow Miami's path... as you claim I said.

You are straight up saying you want SA to suck properly like Miami.

[ElNono]

You are straight up saying you want SA to suck properly like Miami.

Right, which means stop finishing in the 6-8 spot, being first round fodder and getting shitty picks, as I explained in that post.

When Miami sucked, they picked up three top-15 picks.

[Blackhaus]

Memphis str8 sucking ass again tonight. Amazing how they just go off on us and then shit the bed afterwards.

[Dejounte]

:lmao

Using the words "top 15" on the #13th and #14th picks. You're not clever. Stop being disingenuous as fuck. Oh you can't because it's your schtick.

Let's just say the Spurs picked top 19 then. :lmao

The Heat only had two worthwhile picks, Bam and Herro. The book is not closed on Herro. It's possible he won't even be a star.

In comparison, the picks the Spurs have made are: #11 Vassell, #18 Lonnie, and #19 Luka. Averages out to be the 16th pick. Take off Luka and it's the 15th pick.

Herro and Bam's average position is the 14th pick.

This idiot is crying about two whole positions that the Heat drafted from. Claiming they "sucked properly".

As if Bam and Herro are the two players who turned that franchise around :lmao oh wait, they're not even competing anymore.

Dumbest poster I know. Tell me, what do you do in real life? I hope it's far from anything where you make any managerial decisions. Because you're dumb as fuck.

[ElNono]

:lol Vassell is the first top 15 pick this team had in 24(!) years. The standard is this team sucking ass and picking in the 20s... which looks like exactly where we're headed this season.

Nobody said you're guaranteed a star if you pick in the top 15, not me anyways. The point is this team doesn't have the market to bring in a star via capspace, nor the assets to bring it via trade.

Since we're playing the lottery to land the coveted star, it makes zero sense this team is doing anything but losing games.

This batch of NASF really turn out to be really dumb, tbh... smh

[Dejounte]

Goes back 24 years...

Last 24 years is sucking ass according to this dumb fuck lmfao

Why the fuck would you go 24 years back when the Spurs have been competing for championships half that time?

You can't fix stupid, not especially when you're as stupid as ElNono

[ElNono]

Goes back 24 years...

Last 24 years is sucking ass according to this dumb fuck lmfao

Why the fuck would you go 24 years back when the Spurs have been competing for championships half that time?

Who said they've been sucking for 24 years? Can you read? Did you finish elementary school in Alabama or whatever the fuck you're from?




You can't fix stupid, not especially when you're as stupid as ElNono

lmao, you certainly can't fix retard, retard.

[Dejounte]

Who said they've been sucking for 24 years? Can you read? Did you finish elementary school in Alabama or whatever the fuck you're from?





lmao, you certainly can't fix retard, retard.

What the fuck do you think you said here: "The standard is this team sucking ass and picking in the 20s... which looks like exactly where we're headed this season."?

In almost half of the years this team picked in the 20s were when they were competing for championships.

You can't even make sense of your own post. Holy shit. You're not very successful in life, are you? Especially not with 138k fucking posts. Damn.

What are you going to do again? Move goalposts? :lmao :lmao

[ElNono]

What the fuck do you think you said here: "The standard is this team sucking ass and picking in the 20s... which looks like exactly where we're headed this season."?

In almost half of the years this team picked in the 20s were when they were competing for championships.

lol big fonts.

We're discussing the Spurs since ~2015, as I explained to J_Paco in an earlier post ITT... the only problem here is that you're incredibly dumb and don't read.

I already told you you should've stopped posting and embarrassing yourself, but you didn't want to take the advice, tbh...



You can't even make sense of your own post. Holy shit. You're not very successful in life, are you? Especially not with 138k fucking posts. Damn.

What are you going to do again? Move goalposts? :lmao :lmao

:lol the only thing that doesn't make sense here is how the person that's paying for your internet connection hasn't been sued yet for leaving a mentally handicapped person unattended in front of the keyboard.

[Dejounte]

ElNono: "Vassell is the first top 15 pick this team had in 24(!) years"

Also ElNono: "We're discussing the last 5 years as I explained to JPaco..."

Predictably moving goal posts, predictably stupid.

138k fucking posts :lmao what a sad fucking life. You really can't take back those years, can you? Damn, what a waste of a human being.

[ElNono]

ElNono: "Vassell is the first top 15 pick this team had in 24(!) years"

Also ElNono: "We're discussing the last 5 years as I explained to JPaco..."

Predictably moving goal posts, predictably stupid.

:lol so what you got out of that is "moving goalposts"? It's not me having a problem understanding here, it's you. In the past years that they sucked only once they sucked badly enough to get a decent pick...

Retard: ":lmao:lmao so yeah they sucked and didn't even land a good pick... but you're moving goalposts!!11!111 :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao"


138k fucking posts :lmao what a sad fucking life. You really can't take back those years, can you? Damn, what a waste of a human being.

rofl post count smack... what's next, yo mama jokes?

[Dejounte]

:lol so what you got out of that is "moving goalposts"? It's not me having a problem understanding here, it's you. In the past years that they sucked only once they sucked badly enough to get a decent pick...

Retard: ":lmao:lmao so yeah they sucked and didn't even land a good pick... but you're moving goalposts!!11!111 :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao"



rofl post count smack... what's next, yo mama jokes?

Pulling a night shift, ElNono? Gotta keep that post count up or else life becomes meaningless. Could have volunteered with all those lost years. Could have gave to people, done something with your life. Instead, you're here dehumanizing what it means to be mentally disabled. You must be proud of yourself. As proud of yourself as when you hit that 180,000th post :lmao :lmao

Not sure I've ever seen a person go as low as you go. Pathetic, wasted life. Nothing is worse. Actually, there is. The fact that you have other fucking accounts with probably the same amount of posts. Don't quit your day job, ElNono. Your purpose is fulfilled here, posting in your grandma's basement. :lmao :lmao

[Dejounte]

Anyways, going to bed. Us normal people have to get sleep. Stay on watch on this board for us, okay? You do a great job for us with your schtick. It keeps the board 100% better.

[ElNono]

Pulling a night shift, ElNono? Gotta keep that post count up or else life becomes meaningless. Could have volunteered with all those lost years. Could have gave to people, done something with your life. Instead, you're here dehumanizing what it means to be mentally disabled. You must be proud of yourself. As proud of yourself as when you hit that 180,000th post :lmao :lmao

Not sure I've ever seen a person go as low as you go. Pathetic, wasted life. Nothing is worse. Actually, there is. The fact that you have other fucking accounts with probably the same amount of posts. Don't quit your day job, ElNono. Your purpose is fulfilled here, posting in your grandma's basement. :lmao :lmao

:lol this is where you try to make this about me after getting embarrassed (again)... notice not a single sentence about the topic at hand.

son, you shoulda taken my early advice and logged off, tbh... unfortunately "Bad Takes" is taken, you'll have to go with "Bad Takes1234" instead, tbh...

[ElNono]

Anyways, going to bed. Us normal people have to get sleep. Stay on watch on this board for us, okay? You do a great job for us with your schtick. It keeps the board 100% better.

lol who's "us"? the American Retard Association? :lmao

You go to bed, leave the conversation to adults. night, night...

[tbdog]

Right, which means stop finishing in the 6-8 spot, being first round fodder and getting shitty picks, as I explained in that post.

When Miami sucked, they picked up three top-15 picks.

So you want Spurs to follow Heat's path?

[ElNono]

So you want Spurs to follow Heat's path?

The Spurs can't follow the Heat's path. Besides the picks, the Heat had assets to trade for a star, the Spurs don't have those assets. Capspace is only of relative value in a small market.

The Spurs will need to stockpile on high picks and hope one or more of them turn into a star. As it normally works with the NBA lottery, the higher the picks, normally the better the talent.

Maybe trading up like they did with Kawhi is an option, but I just don't see who's the young, valuable asset in this team (like George Hill was) that would make that trade work.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Maybe trading up like they did with Kawhi is an option, but I just don't see who's the young, valuable asset in this team (like George Hill was) that would make that trade work.

Why not? White, Johnson, even Vassell and Murray have more value than George Hill had at the time.

[ElNono]

Why not? White, Johnson, even Vassell and Murray have more value than George Hill had at the time.

Debatable, but I don't rule it out either. Vassell and Keldon... too early right now, maybe in a couple seasons.

[tbdog]

The Spurs can't follow the Heat's path. Besides the picks, the Heat had assets to trade for a star, the Spurs don't have those assets. Capspace is only of relative value in a small market.

The Spurs will need to stockpile on high picks and hope one or more of them turn into a star. As it normally works with the NBA lottery, the higher the picks, normally the better the talent.

Maybe trading up like they did with Kawhi is an option, but I just don't see who's the young, valuable asset in this team (like George Hill was) that would make that trade work.

How did the Heat have more assets to make a trade for a star than the Spurs. They traded a max contract in Whiteside and at most a starting calibre shooting guard.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

How did the Heat have more assets to make a trade for a star than the Spurs. They traded a max contract in Whiteside and at most a starting calibre shooting guard.

It's not only what assets you give for a star - 99% of the time teams pay 60 cents on the $. What's important, though is the ability to retain that star and this is where the Heat have a huge advantage over the Spurs and other small market teams.

[rankingtear]

Jimmy already agreed to sign with the Heat. Whatever they gave up is to make the money work a protected 2023 1st, Whiteside and Josh Richardson.

[ElNono]

How did the Heat have more assets to make a trade for a star than the Spurs. They traded a max contract in Whiteside and at most a starting calibre shooting guard.

Yeah, but Whiteside was relatively young. Who does the Spurs have? Everybody with a high salary is expiring, save Murray and White. The only one of those expiring that's relatively young and can possibly perk the interest of some team is DeRozan.

What's more likely is the Spurs being trade partners from some team trying to dump bad salaries, and aqcuiring some picks in the process.

[TD 21]

Who do you see the Spurs targeting? I hate to say it, but he's indeed our best trade asset right now.

Free agency? On the high end, probably Collins or Markkanen, maybe (Duncan) Robinson.

[ElNono]

Free agency? On the high end, probably Collins or Markkanen, maybe (Duncan) Robinson.

Markkanen and his heart condition makes me nervous... he's probably the best talent though.

[TD 21]

Markkanen and his heart condition makes me nervous... he's probably the best talent though.

I'd prefer Collins to Markkanen due to superior versatility on both ends.

[apalisoc_9]

I'd prefer Collins to Markkanen due to superior versatility on both ends.

Yo how’s life old time?

I’m waiting for pop to resign or retire.

[CGD]

Memphis is like 2 years ahead of Spurs in their rebuild. They’ve got nice foundation pieces that fit together well in Morant, Jackson, and even Winslow. Clarke will be good too. I really like their team and identity.

[Chomag]

The problem I see is the Spurs FO seems OK and content with being in limbo of mediocrity. They should be be trying all out offload dead weight.

Yes there are risks but Spurs just need to either commit to competing or rebuilding while this half a foot in both will do nothing but delay the progress of this team

[Atl Spur]

The problem I see is the Spurs FO seems OK and content with being in limbo of mediocrity. They should be be trying all out offload dead weight.

Yes there are risks but Spurs just need to either commit to competing or rebuilding while this half a foot in both will do nothing but delay the progress of this team

The spurs just don’t over react; some on this board should take notes.....

[spurs1990]

Interesting follow-up to Memphis since destroying the Spurs on 1/30 and 2/1:

18 pt loss at Indiana
12 pt loss vs Houston
9 pt loss at New Orleans
15 pt loss vs Toronto

(Spurs otoh went 3-0 after those thrashings)

[DAF86]

Memphis just seems like a matchup problem for some strange reason.

[kht]

Morant > Murray and any other young player we have
JJJ > our second best young player
Dillon Brooks = Derrick White
JV > Poetl

Didn't even get to Brandon Clarke yet lol.

[DAF86]

Morant > Murray and any other young player we have
JJJ > our second best young player
Dillon Brooks = Derrick White
JV > Poetl

Didn't even get to Brandon Clarke yet lol.

The Grizlies have the two best prospects in Morant and JJJ, that doesn't necesarilly mean they have the better future though. Also, the Spurs are objectively better as a team so far.