Wilt vs MJ - who you got?

[LkrFan]

hCCrpLZfpH4

Lots of truth bombs by the Stilt. For my money, Wilt > MJ

Wilt ran a 10.2 100m dash :wow
Wilt had a 52" vert :wow
Wilt benched almost 600lbs :wow

Would have loved to see him destroy Shaq tbh :lol

Wilt > MJ tbh

[Neo.]

:lmao benching 600 lbs is professional powerlifting territory, absolutely no way he came close to that :lmao :lmao

[DMC]

Wilt is a pathological liar.

[KobesAchilles]

:lmao benching 600 lbs is professional powerlifting territory, absolutely no way he came close to that :lmao :lmao
I remember Arnold saying that Wilt outbenched him and his friends by a lot.

Wilt tho is obviously the GOAT. All arguments against him are kinda dumb when you look at them.

Argument 1: His competition and the entire league was at an all time low skill wise. These are valid points to a degree. But today, more than half the conference is under 500 in the East. How high is the talent level really? Like does anyone watch the Cleveland Cavs and think man this is a talented team. Or the Knicks. Bulls? Wolves. I would argue that the leagues are about the same talent wise in comparison as far as competitive advantage goes. Top heavy and weak at the bottom.

Argument 2: He lost to Russel. Nobody gives a shit that Lebron got bounced in 07 to the Spurs or swept by Golden St. Even that 5 game blow out is swept under the rug. Just like nobody gives a shit that Jordan lost to the Celtics or the Pistons. Both Jordan and Lebron had worst teams and that’s why they lost. Yet nobody gives Wilt that same logic. Wilt was basically going against the Durant Warriors every fucking year.

Argument 3: Wilt averaged 50 only bc he shot the ball so much. If MJ or Kobe wanted to, they could average 50 a game too. Besides the fact that isn’t true as both Kobe and MJ did have free reign in shots for a good chunk of their career. But what is glossed over is that Wilt also averaged 23 rebounds a game. Could Mike and Kobe do that? Hell could anyone do that putting up that kind of scoring output? He blocked the ball 9 times a game (a conservative estimate) so he didn’t slack on defense either. He also played 48 minutes a game that year. I think he averaged like 48.5 minutes bc of some OT games. Mike and Kobe didn’t have that stamina. Nobody does. It’s unheard of.

[TDMVPDPOY]

bball is a team sport, end of the day its championships

wilt just like snaq dominated the stat sheet, but that didnt equate to championships won...

i wont take either 2 of them, give me td

[DMC]

I remember Arnold saying that Wilt outbenched him and his friends by a lot.

Wilt tho is obviously the GOAT. All arguments against him are kinda dumb when you look at them.

Argument 1: His competition and the entire league was at an all time low skill wise. These are valid points to a degree. But today, more than half the conference is under 500 in the East. How high is the talent level really? Like does anyone watch the Cleveland Cavs and think man this is a talented team. Or the Knicks. Bulls? Wolves. I would argue that the leagues are about the same talent wise in comparison as far as competitive advantage goes. Top heavy and weak at the bottom.

Argument 2: He lost to Russel. Nobody gives a shit that Lebron got bounced in 07 to the Spurs or swept by Golden St. Even that 5 game blow out is swept under the rug. Just like nobody gives a shit that Jordan lost to the Celtics or the Pistons. Both Jordan and Lebron had worst teams and that’s why they lost. Yet nobody gives Wilt that same logic. Wilt was basically going against the Durant Warriors every fucking year.

Argument 3: Wilt averaged 50 only bc he shot the ball so much. If MJ or Kobe wanted to, they could average 50 a game too. Besides the fact that isn’t true as both Kobe and MJ did have free reign in shots for a good chunk of their career. But what is glossed over is that Wilt also averaged 23 rebounds a game. Could Mike and Kobe do that? Hell could anyone do that putting up that kind of scoring output? He blocked the ball 9 times a game (a conservative estimate) so he didn’t slack on defense either. He also played 48 minutes a game that year. I think he averaged like 48.5 minutes bc of some OT games. Mike and Kobe didn’t have that stamina. Nobody does. It’s unheard of.

By that logic then James Naismith was the GOAT at one time.

[Neo.]

I remember Arnold saying that Wilt outbenched him and his friends by a lot.

Wilt tho is obviously the GOAT. All arguments against him are kinda dumb when you look at them.

Argument 1: His competition and the entire league was at an all time low skill wise. These are valid points to a degree. But today, more than half the conference is under 500 in the East. How high is the talent level really? Like does anyone watch the Cleveland Cavs and think man this is a talented team. Or the Knicks. Bulls? Wolves. I would argue that the leagues are about the same talent wise in comparison as far as competitive advantage goes. Top heavy and weak at the bottom.

i dont agree with arguments 2 and 3 either. however, this is the only argument i feel that truly has weight, and that counterargument literally has nothing to do with the argument against wilt. its not about record. its about the general level of talent. he was basically a modern nba elite big, playing against "pros" who would get humiliated by modern college and even some high school players. many players struggled to even dribble without looking down, and some looked completely lost when having to handle with their off hand.

not only is it about the gap in skill, but also athletic ability. i do believe wilt was a world class athlete, but have doubts about some of the claims that were made, such as benching 600lbs. regardless, the gap between his athleticism and the average NBA player was simply astronomical, not just because he was a great athlete, but because he was playing in a league filled with "athletes" that would look pretty pathetic among todays players. there was absolutely no single player other than bill russell (who still paled in comparison to him, but simply had a way better team around him) who could match up with him. when hes being guarded by 6'5 white dudes weighing 180, playing basketball only because of the fact that they are tall, and not because they are actually good basketball players... then yeah he should dominate them. imagine shaq or hakeem getting to abuse guys like that.

the talent and athletic levels are simply incomparable. if we feel that he has a case for being goat, then you might as well take high school players who dominate effortlessly because they simply dont have competition to face on their level, and say they have cases as well, because thats basically what wilt had. for his time, sure he was amazing. but the game has evolved, and there is absolutely no chance he could dominate with remotely the same level of success against the league over the past 40 years.

[MultiTroll]

Wilt

[KobesAchilles]

i dont agree with arguments 2 and 3 either. however, this is the only argument i feel that truly has weight, and that counterargument literally has nothing to do with the argument against wilt. its not about record. its about the general level of talent. he was basically a modern nba elite big, playing against "pros" who would get humiliated by modern college and even some high school players. many players struggled to even dribble without looking down, and some looked completely lost when having to handle with their off hand.

not only is it about the gap in skill, but also athletic ability. i do believe wilt was a world class athlete, but have doubts about some of the claims that were made, such as benching 600lbs. regardless, the gap between his athleticism and the average NBA player was simply astronomical, not just because he was a great athlete, but because he was playing in a league filled with "athletes" that would look pretty pathetic among todays players. there was absolutely no single player other than bill russell (who still paled in comparison to him, but simply had a way better team around him) who could match up with him. when hes being guarded by 6'5 white dudes weighing 180, playing basketball only because of the fact that they are tall, and not because they are actually good basketball players... then yeah he should dominate them. imagine shaq or hakeem getting to abuse guys like that.

the talent and athletic levels are simply incomparable. if we feel that he has a case for being goat, then you might as well take high school players who dominate effortlessly because they simply dont have competition to face on their level, and say they have cases as well, because thats basically what wilt had. for his time, sure he was amazing. but the game has evolved, and there is absolutely no chance he could dominate with remotely the same level of success against the league over the past 40 years.


I agree with what you said. I’m not arguing at all that players yesteryear didn’t suck. I’m pretty sure I could’ve mad the NBA back then in the 50s. But my main counter to that is that Wilt might be the greatest athlete who ever lived. Like the dude could touch the top of the backboard. He was a track star and triple jump star too. And just the stamina alone was world class. I would argue it’s more impressive to play 48 minutes for 82 games back then compared to today where players get massages, travel in private jets, sleep in 5 star hotels, have personal doctors, advance medical machines like cryo and shit.

I legitimately think if Wilt played today he would be the most athletic player in the NBA and dominate. Even more so than Giannis. And he would be guarded by smaller guys like Embiid is or Giannis. His tall tales are ridiculous and I’m not saying some of them are false but if Arnold says that Wilt was out lifting him and other Mr. Universe guys then he was hella strong regardless. I see him putting up 30 and 15 and like 3.

[i'm_still_beta]

hCCrpLZfpH4

Lots of truth bombs by the Stilt. For my money, Wilt > MJ

Wilt ran a 10.2 100m dash :wow
Wilt had a 52" vert :wow
Wilt benched almost 600lbs :wow

Would have loved to see him destroy Shaq tbh :lol

Wilt > MJ tbh

Wilt also beat the living shit out of mountain lion. Imagine what he could do to Shaq or MJ

[i'm_still_beta]

“Just remember Michael, when you played, they changed the rules to make it easier for you to dominate. When I played, they changed the rules to make it harder for me.”

[FrostKing]

Wilt Chamberlain is certainly in the conversation of GOATs. Overshadowed by Kareem and humbled by Willis Reed.

MJ would have posterized Wilt like everyone else. Fed his ego and stripped him of the ball late in games.


Ultimately MJ just smarter, more driven to humiliate opponent and depending on Era would be favored as guard.

[lefty]

MJ would have posterized Wilt like everyone else.

:lmao

[Neo.]

I agree with what you said. I’m not arguing at all that players yesteryear didn’t suck. I’m pretty sure I could’ve mad the NBA back then in the 50s. But my main counter to that is that Wilt might be the greatest athlete who ever lived. Like the dude could touch the top of the backboard. He was a track star and triple jump star too. And just the stamina alone was world class. I would argue it’s more impressive to play 48 minutes for 82 games back then compared to today where players get massages, travel in private jets, sleep in 5 star hotels, have personal doctors, advance medical machines like cryo and shit.

I legitimately think if Wilt played today he would be the most athletic player in the NBA and dominate. Even more so than Giannis. And he would be guarded by smaller guys like Embiid is or Giannis. His tall tales are ridiculous and I’m not saying some of them are false but if Arnold says that Wilt was out lifting him and other Mr. Universe guys then he was hella strong regardless. I see him putting up 30 and 15 and like 3.

he might be the most athletic player, but just how skilled was he actually? he basically had three methods of scoring - a short 6-8 foot bankshot, putbacks, and dunks on tiny weak players. he would mix in the occasional hook as well. but imo he didn't exactly display great footwork, shooting ability, ball handling, or finishing abilities. people want to make fun of a guy like giannis and claim that he "lacks skill", but just watching him, imo he easily displays more skill than wilt ever did.

i believe wilt would still be an elite player in any era, but have a hard time seeing him being able to make a case for GOAT if he played in any era of the past 40 years. the only reason he even is discussed is because of his absurd stats that everyone knows was a heavily a product of poor competition. lets just say in a more modern era, he averages 27/13/3 for his whole career (no 50/20 seasons, no 100 point games because we know those things aren't happening), has his 2 championships, and a few MVPs with it, is there still any argument at all for him being greater than Mike, Kareem or Lebron? to me, at best he would be considered in the class with guys like magic, bird, timmy, and kobe, which is basically where i believe he belongs right now anyways

[Mark Celibate]

Wilt was a legit freak of nature, who would be dominant in any era despite his competition. Still don't see him as in the discussion with MJ though, considering how limited he was offensively. He was basically just another Shaq, but a different kind of body.

Still MUCH better than Bill Russell though, who IMO is just a poor man's Lamar Odom with hilariously stacked teams. Just look at these "highlights" from the 1963 Finals. I don't see how he'd even be an All Star in the modern era. And the competition he's playing against.....yikes, I've legit seen better athletes at local rec centers rofl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F7WgNM9SHA

[LkrFan]

“Just remember Michael, when you played, they changed the rules to make it easier for you to dominate. When I played, they changed the rules to make it harder for me.”

Truth bombs

[lefty]

Truth bombs
True true

[Arcadian]

It's a close call. My personal preference is Wilt, but if you're making a list in which winning matters, you'd have to give the edge to Jordan.

[Dirks_Finale]

I don't think he's over MJ, but if you want to make that argument I don't see an issue with it. Guy was a freak of nature, but you look at some of those highlights and it looks like he is playing against a bunch of Steve Kerr's :lol There is something to be said for level of competition, although I think it's greatly exaggerated in this forum.

[lefty]

A lot of players are ahead of MJ tbh

Jordan is borderline top 30

[Millennial_Messiah]

C) Brady

[Neo.]

I don't think he's over MJ, but if you want to make that argument I don't see an issue with it. Guy was a freak of nature, but you look at some of those highlights and it looks like he is playing against a bunch of Steve Kerr's :lol There is something to be said for level of competition, although I think it's greatly exaggerated in this forum.

lol from everyone else its "greatly exaggerated", yet you just called them a bunch of "steve kerrs"

[Dirks_Finale]

A lot of players are ahead of MJ tbh

Jordan is borderline top 30

Worst take ever.

Or nice trolling :lol

[lefty]

Worst take ever.

Or nice trolling :lol

You’re right

Demar Derozan isn’t even top 30 so there is no eay Jordan can be top 30 either

[Spurtacular]

Duncan beats them both, tbh.

[Dirks_Finale]

Duncan beats them both, tbh.

Duncan is highly underrated by most.

[lefty]

Duncan is better than Porker....

[lefty]

But he could not stop prime Bogut :lol

[baseline bum]

IDK man, the fact Wilt only rang once on that Lakers team has to count for something. Can't call his supporting cast weak when it was Jerry West and Elgin Baylor. Can't imagine how much shit people here would talk on Durant if he only won in 2017 in Golden State and then the team underachieved the rest of the time. And it not like his Sixers teams were crap when he had Hal Green and Billy Cunningham. Wasn't Russell's supporting cast but it's not like he was early Jordan with guys like Orlando Woolridge or Charles Oakley as his best teammate.

[ambchang]

IDK man, the fact Wilt only rang once on that Lakers team has to count for something. Can't call his supporting cast weak when it was Jerry West and Elgin Baylor. Can't imagine how much shit people here would talk on Durant if he only won in 2017 in Golden State and then the team underachieved the rest of the time. And it not like his Sixers teams were crap when he had Hal Green and Billy Cunningham. Wasn't Russell's supporting cast but it's not like he was early Jordan with guys like Orlando Woolridge or Charles Oakley as his best teammate.

Charles Oakley was Ewing’s best teammate but that didn’t stop people to rag on him. It’s only a problem when it was Jordan.

[Rummpd]

Kareem is real GoAT so all discussion moot.

[Spurtacular]

Duncan is highly underrated by most.

Jordan didn't want a piece of Duncan or he would've stuck around for 99.

[lefty]

IDK man, the fact Wilt only rang once on that Lakers team has to count for something. Can't call his supporting cast weak when it was Jerry West and Elgin Baylor. Can't imagine how much shit people here would talk on Durant if he only won in 2017 in Golden State and then the team underachieved the rest of the time. And it not like his Sixers teams were crap when he had Hal Green and Billy Cunningham. Wasn't Russell's supporting cast but it's not like he was early Jordan with guys like Orlando Woolridge or Charles Oakley as his best teammate.

Weren’t Wilt, West and Baylor TOSB’s when they played together?
That explains their only ring together
And they did win an them NBA record 69 games that year

[lefty]

Charles Oakley was Ewing’s best teammate but that didn’t stop people to rag on him. It’s only a problem when it was Jordan.

And Wooldridge was a 20 + pt scorer

[baseline bum]

Weren’t Wilt, West and Baylor TOSB’s when they played together?
That explains their only ring together
And they did win an them NBA record 69 games that year

Baylor was old, West was in his prime still. Both still bigtime scorers at the time though.

[baseline bum]

Weren’t Wilt, West and Baylor TOSB’s when they played together?
That explains their only ring together
And they did win an them NBA record 69 games that year

Bend over, I'll show you a record 69... wait, never mind.

[LkrFan]

Bend over, I'll show you a record 69... wait, never mind.

What ever happened to Cubby? :cry

[baseline bum]

What ever happened to Cubby? :cry

https://i.ibb.co/qgx74Xx/cubby-mass-grave.jpg

[i'm_still_beta]

Weren’t Wilt, West and Baylor TOSB’s when they played together?
That explains their only ring together
And they did win an them NBA record 69 games that year
Wilt choked in 1968. And in 1969 he had conflict with the coach. IIRC he was benched in final 5-10 minutes of the 4th quarter of game 7 vs Celtics

[lefty]

Wilt choked in 1968. And in 1969 he had conflict with the coach. IIRC he was benched in final 5-10 minutes of the 4th quarter of game 7 vs Celtics
lol benching your best player in such a crucial moment, only Pop would do that today lol

[LkrFan]

https://i.ibb.co/qgx74Xx/cubby-mass-grave.jpg

Cubby dieded? :wow

[baseline bum]

Cubby dieded? :wow

Probably. Or he's a chickenshit.

[i'm_still_beta]

lol benching your best player in such a crucial moment, only Pop would do that today lol
Wilt reached TOSB status at the start of 1970 season, when he got injured

[Bynumite]

I don't understand how can anyone watch Bill Russell play, in a watered down league with only 8 teams and filled with undersized white guys and think he's anywhere near GOAT status.

Watching his highlights, he clearly has a lot of technical limitations and was putting up numbers against weak competition. Maybe he adjusts, had he played in a more recent era but you don't do "what ifs" in this situation, you've gotta work with what you know.

[FrostKing]

.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I don't understand how can anyone watch Bill Russell play, in a watered down league with only 8 teams and filled with undersized white guys and think he's anywhere near GOAT status.

Watching his highlights, he clearly has a lot of technical limitations and was putting up numbers against weak competition. Maybe he adjusts, had he played in a more recent era but you don't do "what ifs" in this situation, you've gotta work with what you know.

Less teams means the talent available is more concentrated on each team. IOW, if there was only a quarter as much talent then Wilt played equally talented teams every night.

And what technical limitations? He could post from each side and finish over either shoulder with either hand. He could shoot to 15 feet.

No post player in today's NBA can do that.

[lefty]

Less teams means the talent available is more concentrated on each team. IOW, if there was only a quarter as much talent then Wilt played equally talented teams every night.

And what technical limitations? He could post from each side and finish over either shoulder with either hand. He could shoot to 15 feet.

No post player in today's NBA can do that.

I agree with you on less teams=less diluted

[lefty]

But Russell shot 44% from the field lol

[i'm_still_beta]

But Russell shot 44% from the field lol
Russell's scoring was mediocre: left hook, occasional drive, putback. No post moves. And his passing was good for center but nothing spectacular. Not even close to Walton and Jokic

[lefty]

Russell's scoring was mediocre: left hook, occasional drive, putback. No post moves. And his passing was good for center but nothing spectacular. Not even close to Walton and Jokic
Jokic and Sabonis (Arvydas) are god tier when it comes to passing big man
Walton was a slight noth below those 2 imo

Russell's passing motly consistend of simpe outlet pass after a defensive play

[FrostKing]

Bill would average 30 boards a game today considering everyone chucks and doesn't box out

[lefty]

Bob Cousy would have averaged 50 apg and Sam Jones 60 ppg in the 90s

I mean, according to old head logic

[lefty]

Bill would average 30 boards a game today considering everyone chucks and doesn't box out
Bill wouldn’t even get a scholarship today :lol

[Bynumite]

Bill wouldn’t even get a scholarship today :lol

Bill Russell would be a Draymond Green type at best in today's game. Never a 1st option on a contender.

[Mitch]

Who knows, Wilt with today's training and nutrition would obviously be a better athlete than he was in the 60s. If half of the claims about his physical abilities are true he would likely look like a 7ft Westbrook :lol

I think you can only really compare athletes within the current or past decade, further than that it's too hard to say and Wilt's last game is 11 years apart from Jordan's first.

[ezau]

Wilt played against 6'8 white guys and mustered a grand total of 2 rings. :lol Wilt would've been Thon Maker's bitch if he played today. :lol

[FrostKing]

Bob Cousy would have averaged 50 apg and Sam Jones 60 ppg in the 90s

I mean, according to old head logic
Talking old bball better than today

Duke had a player this week quit the team "for development". The sport is a sick man currently.

[lefty]

Talking old bball better than today

Duke had a player this week quit the team "for development". The sport is a sick man currently.

Still better than players having to quit teams for drug abuse like they did on the 80s-90s

[FrostKing]

Still better than players having to quit teams for drug abuse like they did on the 80s-90s
Pacers attacking fans lowest point. Spurs helped pull the NBA out of the American thuggery. I took a long break but when I retured I rooted for the International Spurs.

[FrostKing]

1. Rose
2. Jordan
3. Pippen
4. Rodman
5. Kukoc


Post your Lake Show 5 to challenge

[Rummpd]

1. Rose
2. Jordan
3. Pippen
4. Rodman
5. Kukoc

Spurs can put out another strong 5 with using Rodman only thing lackng todays game is long range shooting.

Duncan
Robinson
Rodman
Nephew
Parker

Bench would include Manu, Kerr, Wilkins, Bowen, Elliott etc.


Post your Lake Show 5 to challenge

[FrostKing]

I think you are playing a few guys outta position. Likely to match up with Jordan.

Parker vs Rose is great matchup if we consider their primes
Basically Rodman is starting instead of Manu. Let's say Dennis is not in equation

5. Robinson
4. Duncan
3. Leonard
2. Manu
1. Tony

[LkrFan]

I don't understand how can anyone watch Bill Russell play, in a watered down league with only 8 teams and filled with undersized white guys and think he's anywhere near GOAT status.

Watching his highlights, he clearly has a lot of technical limitations and was putting up numbers against weak competition. Maybe he adjusts, had he played in a more recent era but you don't do "what ifs" in this situation, you've gotta work with what you know.

https://twitter.com/damanr/status/1233303382355369984?s=19

:rollin :lmao :rollin

[LkrFan]

1. Rose
2. Jordan
3. Pippen
4. Rodman
5. Kukoc


Post your Lake Show 5 to challenge

This a joke right? :lol

[LkrFan]

Bill wouldn’t even get a scholarship today :lol

:lol

[FrostKing]

This a joke right? :lol
The irony is Lakers dream team would sabotage each other for the pool girl

1. Magic
2. Bryant
3. James
4. Wilt
5. Kareem

[lefty]

Lol the Lakers 5 wouldn'T even need Kobe and Shaq to beat the Bulls best 5

Take the 80s or the early 2000's Lakers and they obliterate the Bulls

[Rummpd]

I think you are playing a few guys outta position. Likely to match up with Jordan.

Parker vs Rose is great matchup if we consider their primes
Basically Rodman is starting instead of Manu. Let's say Dennis is not in equation

5. Robinson
4. Duncan
3. Leonard
2. Manu
1. Tony

Ok with this

[LkrFan]

Lol the Lakers 5 wouldn'T even need Kobe and Shaw to beat the Bulls best 5

Take the 80s or the early 2000's Lakers and they obliterate the Bulls

:lol Truth Bombs

[lefty]

:lol Truth Bombs
:lol I just realized I typed Shaw instead of Shaq, I had to edit it :lol

[Neo.]

https://twitter.com/damanr/status/1233303382355369984?s=19

:rollin :lmao :rollin

idk if the shot is worse, or the rebound fundamentals are worse

[lefty]

To be fair that’s how Shaq shot his FTs