Send Lonnie to the G-League

[FkLA]

what an absolute pussy he turned out to be

[SpursDynasty85]

what an absolute pussy he turned out to be

Bro. He is still super young and just got back from an illness. Lots of potential still there and at worst he is a pretty good bench player.

[GAustex]

Seems like he is got an issue with his mind

[DAF86]

Lonnie is a microwave off the bench type player. One of those Jamal Crawford type guys that don't provide much of anything other than scoring on a good day.

[Dejounte]

It's looking bad and maybe we simply need to temper our expectations. He needs to pursue a JJ Reddick type of career. Stardom might be out of reach.

Three options:

1) Use him as trade bait
2) Re-sign him at a lower salary
3) Let him become restricted FA

[Dejounte]

Lonnie is a microwave off the bench type player. One of those Jamal Crawford type guys that don't provide much of anything other than scoring on a good day.

This is what I said before the season began. I said he could be a Lou Williams type player.

So frustrating how when he drives, you already know he's going to pass it out because he can't make any nifty layup to score.

[onechance87]

Bro. He is still super young and just got back from an illness. Lots of potential still there and at worst he is a pretty good bench player.

Hes been in the nba a few years already...Just seems lost....Every once in awhile he will have a good game,But then disappears the next several games.Hes not good at anything

[FkLA]

His ceiling is Gerald Green or JR Smith. He's got that same low IQ vibe to him. He's shorter and softer than those two so he probably won't even reach that ceiling.

[sananspursfan21]

Wow, ok. Didn’t get to watch tonight but it looks like he wasn’t the only one who crapped the bed. I still got faith in him as a solid player in this league but some of these guys who were talking about him being an all-star might need an expectation adjustment.

[onechance87]

if lonnie dont pick it up the next few games we should just go on with weaterspoon

[weeks]

I dunno I think he's at the stage where he needs to perform against nba pressure, and he's got to learn to handle it one way or another.

[Dejounte]

I believe more in Samanic's potential than Lonnie at this point.

You can probably get something juicy out of a Mills + Rudy + Lonnie package.

[Robz4000]

Eh, I give him the rest of the season. Pop needs to get the fuck out of his head.

[KaiRMD1]

Lonnie wasn't the only guy who shit the bed, this was a team effort tonight ol' sports

[Dejounte]

Lonnie wasn't the only guy who shit the bed, this was a team effort tonight ol' sports

No one is saying that it was because of Lonnie we lost this game. It's the consistency of lackluster aggressiveness and lack of willpower that has everyone down on Lonnie.

[John B]

I don't know if it's Pop on these guys. Even Keldon is not showing as much bravado. He used to yell every time. Now he's more tempered.

[Dejounte]

I don't know if it's Pop on these guys. Even Keldon is not showing as much bravado. He used to yell every time. Now he's more tempered.

I think it's what Vassell said the other day:

https://twitter.com/tom_orsborn/status/1358836148894859264?s=19

Especially when you go as hard as Keldon. The dude is probably fatigued. And maybe the PF role is taking a toll on him.

[onechance87]

I don't know if it's Pop on these guys. Even Keldon is not showing as much bravado. He used to yell every time. Now he's more tempered.

its not pops fault kj cant shoot all of a sudden....Pop giving kj,murray,lonnie the freedom to make shit happen...They just cant rise to the challenge

[PhantomDashCam]

IMHO he hasn’t been the same since his hand injury. He clearly wasn’t 100% tonight. Not sure he plays if D. White was ready to go on the 2nd night of a b2b.

I give him credit for suiting up and playing. He has taken major strides in his professionalism and approach to the game this year, playing through injuries is another.

As Pop has said, the guy relies so much on his athleticism.
I see when he isn’t fully abled (either physically or psychologically), he becomes a shell of his (newfound) former self.

He is also in a unique situation this year as there’s actually a rookie better than he is overall right now, playing behind him.
Coupled with Whites return, Lonnie would have to be feeling that pressure.

I still believe in him but agree it may take a change of scenery, lack of competition at his position; to truly find his game.

[John B]

its not pops fault kj cant shoot all of a sudden....Pop giving kj,murray,lonnie the freedom to make shit happen...They just cant rise to the challenge

I don't mean shooting. There's good and bad nights. I'm talking about intensity. Keldon was 10 just a week ago, and I see him maybe 6-7 tonight. The same with Lonnie. He scored 20's two nights in a row, and could not even score tonight, but rather pass the ball.

[MI21]

Lonnie is pretty frustrating - I've been relatively impressed with his effort levels on defense and his ballhandling and general floor play looks to have improved a bit, but he is just so timid offensively. At this point, his vertical leap is purely a number and doesn't function as an advantage for him. Not ready to give up on him by any means, there is definitely a good player in there.

[Dejounte]

I think what bothers me the most about Lonnie is him hyping himself up before the season began, like he was going to takeover the league. He's really become the new IG Baller. I mean, I hope he backs up all his self-hype someday like Murray but Murray's been cocky from day 1 and it's always evident on the court.

[John B]

Anything to get his confidence back. Lonnie can break his defender's ankle if he wants to with his quick first step. He can outrun anybody in the court on a fastbreak. But he chooses to dial down. He needs to know he can go in and attack anytime and punish his defender.

[Sugus]

I think what bothers me the most about Lonnie is him hyping himself up before the season began, like he was going to takeover the league. He's really become the new IG Baller. I mean, I hope he backs up all his self-hype someday like Murray but Murray's been cocky from day 1 and it's always evident on the court.

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[Dejounte]

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

https://media4.giphy.com/media/5wWf7GR2nhgamhRnEuA/giphy.gif

https://media.tenor.com/images/1071d9928bcd4be97ac47b03b000ddcb/tenor.gif?ctx=share

[Sugus]

its not pops fault kj cant shoot all of a sudden....Pop giving kj,murray,lonnie the freedom to make shit happen...They just cant rise to the challenge

I've been wondering to what point is that a good thing for the young guys, tbh. Pop by all accounts has taken a step back in the coaching department this season, giving the players leeway, but it doesn't look like they're benefiting from it. I wouldn't want to return to the every-possession-is-a-halfcourt-scheme style we had a year or two ago, but some simple plays and movement is much needed for the Spurs' offense. It gets stagnant and unproductive way too easily and often, it only takes a couple misses by any player for them to get discouraged and stop looking to shoot, and pass, pass, pass instead. Set plays would also determine who's job it is to end the play with a score, which would put an end to the useless drive-kickout thing they've got going on (I personally see that the youngings don't know who is supposed to score on a given possession, so they don't take it upon themselves to finish the play, and pass out instead, which is infuriating).

Some backdoor cuts, backscreens, weakside movement sort of stuff for starters. I really don't know how Pop can watch the team day in, day out, and not change his approach whatsoever. The team doesn't have a Doncic type player who came ready right off the bat and isn't to be restricted (had we drafted Haliburton, it would've been a different matter), so set some structure in place. And get rid of a vet or two at the deadline...

[duncan2k5]

Unpopular opinion... But I think Pop has something to do with how soft he is... I don't know what it is, but pop always seemed to try to dial back the aggressiveness of young players... we even have a running joke on here about Pop benching players for dunking or showing toughness or extreme emotion on the court...Some are able to deal with it, while others aren't... Lonnie I think would be more consistent if he were on a other team, and he would be one of those young players we would want to sign...

Pop has given them more room this year, but y'all know how I feel about DeRozan... He and Walker doesn't fit with each other... Walker's best games are when DeRozan isn't playing... It always seems like he defers to DeRozan... And that's a horrible mentality... But if I had to get rid of one, y'all already know who I'd trade...

He also doesn't strike me as a competitor... Just someone that happens to be really talented... If he had that Jordan mentality, he would be a problem, with his natural gifts...

With all that said, all isn't lost, obviously... I'd give him another year, but after that, I'd trade him of he doesn't start to show some fight... Even Vassel shows some fight with his 5ppg

[JADG79]

The problem of our youngs is the Pop system, they are not free to play their game.
Is not like other coaches that try to get the best of a player, Pop try to get the best for his system.

They are afraid of Pop.

We need another coach that develop and increase confidence of younger players.

[rankingtear]

The problem of our youngs is the Pop system, they are not free to play their game.
Is not like other coaches that try to get the best of a player, Pop try to get the best for his system.

They are afraid of Pop.

We need another coach that develop and increase confidence of younger players.

Not this season. They are free to do whatever they want.

[Spurs Homer]

All lonnie needs is tony parker teaching him how to finish in the lane...

parker was a master at drawing contact and scoring right before he hit the floor- hell he hit the floor no matter if there was any contact

but he got the bucket and the call 99% of the time

[TheChillFactor]

Player X shows the slightest bit of potential and then -

Hype him as the Spurs next savior, when he has a bad stretch talk shit about him and demand a trade.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Keldon, you're up next... :downspin:

[SpursDynasty85]

All lonnie needs is tony parker teaching him how to finish in the lane...

parker was a master at drawing contact and scoring right before he hit the floor- hell he hit the floor no matter if there was any contact

but he got the bucket and the call 99% of the time

I think the Spurs org and Lonnie knows this. Thats why he trained with Jrue Holiday over the summer. The Spurs must've reached out to him. He has those same attributes of being small but finishing in the lane really well and using his strength and iq to shield off opponents and maintain his dribble and drive. Lonnie has just been way used to being the best athlete on the floor but at this level he needs all the tricks he can learn. It will probably take him 2-3 years to learn how to use his body like that. For now he at least has a pretty darn good jump shot but still needs to tighten up his handle as well.

[KobesAchilles]

Unpopular opinion... But I think Pop has something to do with how soft he is... I don't know what it is, but pop always seemed to try to dial back the aggressiveness of young players... we even have a running joke on here about Pop benching players for dunking or showing toughness or extreme emotion on the court...Some are able to deal with it, while others aren't... Lonnie I think would be more consistent if he were on a other team, and he would be one of those young players we would want to sign...

Pop has given them more room this year, but y'all know how I feel about DeRozan... He and Walker doesn't fit with each other... Walker's best games are when DeRozan isn't playing... It always seems like he defers to DeRozan... And that's a horrible mentality... But if I had to get rid of one, y'all already know who I'd trade...

He also doesn't strike me as a competitor... Just someone that happens to be really talented... If he had that Jordan mentality, he would be a problem, with his natural gifts...

With all that said, all isn't lost, obviously... I'd give him another year, but after that, I'd trade him of he doesn't start to show some fight... Even Vassel shows some fight with his 5ppg

I think this is more the issue than Pop. I mean Pop has used him to close out games and left him as a starter even with Derrick back. Not much else he can do. The demar point is an interesting one as well bc the two definitely don't seem to mesh. I think Lonnie would benift more from a low post presence like LMA than a Demar who dribble dribbles. But if Lonnie isn't a competitor than that's more on him than anyone else. Nobody can make him one. You either are or you aren't. Murray is. Derrick is. KJ is. Lonnie? I'm not really seeing it on a consistent basis

[GreekSpursfan]

I believe more in Samanic's potential than Lonnie at this point.

You can probably get something juicy out of a Mills + Rudy + Lonnie package.

No, i don't see any juiciness coming our way. A solid rotation piece maybe

[Dverde]

Low to middle rung rotational player doing low to middle rung rotational things. I think he is going to improve, the key is not to overpay him for his occasional 20 point games.

[C-Dub]

You have to wait and see how LW4 plays next season with no DDR on the team. If he still isn't showing anything then you trade him by the trade deadline. Next season is his last guaranteed year on his rookie contract.

[duncan2150]

That could have been a thread for dejounte two years ago, now Murray is pretty good in his year 5.

Walker is still adjusting to the game, playing his second year in the league after the first one in g league.

What he was showing during a big part of the season was not that bad, 12 pts with 42% shooting and he is one of our best 3pt shooting with 37% ( 4.5 attempts)

Offcourse i want more from him but let him learn and we'll see.

[duncan2150]

I believe more in Samanic's potential than Lonnie at this point.

You can probably get something juicy out of a Mills + Rudy + Lonnie package.

You're a believer, i hope so but samanic is far far way from the team not lonnie.

[Dejounte]

You're a believer, i hope so but samanic is far far way from the team not lonnie.

What I really meant is star potential, not just rotational player potential.

[stephen jackson]

I think it's what Vassell said the other day:

https://twitter.com/tom_orsborn/status/1358836148894859264?s=19

Especially when you go as hard as Keldon. The dude is probably fatigued. And maybe the PF role is taking a toll on him.
this dude vassell is such a pro man, hopefully he starts rest of season

[stephen jackson]

and it sucks lonnie is playing so cowardly, he started the season great, hed be awesome as the number one guy on a shit team and get a million reps in the nba, then hell become a consistent player but our system doesnt allow us to learn on the fly you just kinda have to go and get it and lonnie doesnt have that killer mentality.

[Trill Clinton]

Lonnie being softer than baby shit isn't Pop's fault.

[Seventyniner]

this dude vassell is such a pro man, hopefully he starts rest of season

Don't be surprised if Vassell hits the rookie wall at some point. Keldon might be hitting it now.

And yes I know Keldon isn't a rookie, but he played so few minutes before the bubble that this season is the first time he has played regular minutes for a sustained period.

[RD2191]

Eh, I give him the rest of the season. Pop needs to get the fuck out of his head.
/thread. Pop ruins players.

[Dex]

/thread. Pop ruins players.

Yeah, it's not like Pop has a history of putting his players in positions to succeed.

I really can't think of any Spurs who have done well under Pop, or gone on to get big contracts and contribute to other teams.

That Pop, he really is the cause of all of our problems. I bet he started COVID as well.

[Dejounte]

Yeah, it's not like Pop has a history of putting his players in positions to succeed.

I really can't think of any Spurs who have done well under Pop, or gone on to get big contracts and contribute to other teams.

That Pop, he really is the cause of all of our problems. I bet he started COVID as well.

Jonathon Simmons was another former Spur who had fans on here claiming Pop was ruining him. After Jon chased the money and the "freedom", he went on to have a great NBA career...

[Sugus]

I don't understand why there can't be a middle ground re: Pop and his coaching methods. It's either Pop is the worst coach ever and ruins every player, which obviously isn't true, or Pop can do no wrong and his methods are always good and effective, which I personally don't think is true either. Especially on someone like Lonnie.

Why can't it be said that he's been badly coached/developed? Yes, the Spurs have a great, top-of-the-league developmental program, it still doesn't make it infallible. And Pop specifically had a particular, stick-and-stick approach to Lonnie, which from day 1 was apparent not to be the best way to bring him up. Ever since sending him to the G-L for his entire rookie season, hardly if ever calling him up (and when he did, didn't play him), he's been on Lonnie's ass all day, Tony Parker style. Last season was egregious - he was getting benched after the first missed rotation, whereas Forbes and Beli got cooked nightly without repercussions. He repeatedly was one of the Spurs who least saw the floor, including having the lowest amount of minutes played the very next game after his career outing against the Rockettes, and when he did play, he got chewed out. It's clear Pop didn't like his game, and was trying to mold him into something else (his notorious effort into incorporating passing/assists into his game are a testament to this), but can we stop acting like Pop is infallible at development?

Now, it's plain to see that Lonnie's confidence is shot. He doesn't trust his 3pt shot, doesn't trust his midrange, doesn't trust his finishing, and most importantly, doesn't trust himself as someone who can finish plays. He's just a passing machine at this point, and they're not even good, thought-out passes, but scared, don't-make-me-do-this kind of passes. Exactly what you do when you're scared of the repercussions of not passing. Why is it so unbelievable that Pop disliked Lonnie's scoring mentality (which he DID exhibit, in spades, at every point of his development before getting on the Spurs' big club, even in Austin he played nothing like he does today), and pressured him into changing, only for it to fail? I'm not saying Lonnie is blameless at all - at its core, he's the only one who's in his head and he should be playing better. But acting like Pop could not possibly have a part in this because the Spurs have more successes than failures, is just blind Pop-nerism.

It's ironic to think that Rookie Lonnie would run circles around second-year Lonnie, but it's true. He hasn't progressed on defense, despite Pop making it a point of emphasis/punishment for him, and has visibly regressed on offense. I'm still a believer, and definitely will hold out hope until next season, but all this talk about Lonnie is asinine when people pretend like he's the only one to blame for his bad play, then turn around and praise the Spurs' developmental programs for every other of our players' success.

[rjv]

walker has been a disappointment for me this season. first, on defense he gets beat way too often and second, he's starting to hesitate way too much when it comes to offense, whether that's in his hesitancy to drive the ball or when he passes on an open shot. he's clearly in a mental funk at the moment though-1 for 15 in his last two games. he desperately needs a good outing, sooner rather than later.

[stephen jackson]

Don't be surprised if Vassell hits the rookie wall at some point. Keldon might be hitting it now.

And yes I know Keldon isn't a rookie, but he played so few minutes before the bubble that this season is the first time he has played regular minutes for a sustained period.
He may but he’ll still hustle and make plays on defense

[RD2191]

Yeah, it's not like Pop has a history of putting his players in positions to succeed.

I really can't think of any Spurs who have done well under Pop, or gone on to get big contracts and contribute to other teams.

That Pop, he really is the cause of all of our problems. I bet he started COVID as well.
All true tbh. Glad you see the light.

[acoelho1]

For the team's sake, I hope Walker can sort out whatever mental issues he has because talent wise, he has the highest ceiling on team in my opinion and just needs to get stronger mentally. The issue maybe Pop in that some players just don't handle his approach well. Nevertheless, he's only 22 and Pop likes to bring players up slowly.

[J_Paco]

Player X shows the slightest bit of potential and then -

Hype him as the Spurs next savior, when he has a bad stretch talk shit about him and demand a trade.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Keldon, you're up next... :downspin:

Ding, ding, ding, ding......

And after him it'll be Devin and after him the team's '21 draft pick.

Lonnie's shot has definitely been negatively effected by the wrist/hand injury and he's been battling with a stomach flu/virus. He clearly came back too soon and was completely ineffective (from looking at the boxscore & reading TIMVP's grades) last night.

Gotta just hope he gets back into a groove and can heal up fully from the wrist/hand issue that fucking with his shot.

I do agree that Pop attempting to "mold" Lonnie into a 3 - and - D type has had a negative effect on his natural scoring ability and game.

He has shown some improvement, so giving up on him too soon could be a huge error, but has looked poor lately. Like I said earlier & someone else posted, hopefully this is just a funk and a couple good games can get him back on track.

[rankingtear]

I don't understand why there can't be a middle ground re: Pop and his coaching methods. It's either Pop is the worst coach ever and ruins every player, which obviously isn't true, or Pop can do no wrong and his methods are always good and effective, which I personally don't think is true either. Especially on someone like Lonnie.

Why can't it be said that he's been badly coached/developed? Yes, the Spurs have a great, top-of-the-league developmental program, it still doesn't make it infallible. And Pop specifically had a particular, stick-and-stick approach to Lonnie, which from day 1 was apparent not to be the best way to bring him up. Ever since sending him to the G-L for his entire rookie season, hardly if ever calling him up (and when he did, didn't play him), he's been on Lonnie's ass all day, Tony Parker style. Last season was egregious - he was getting benched after the first missed rotation, whereas Forbes and Beli got cooked nightly without repercussions. He repeatedly was one of the Spurs who least saw the floor, including having the lowest amount of minutes played the very next game after his career outing against the Rockettes, and when he did play, he got chewed out. It's clear Pop didn't like his game, and was trying to mold him into something else (his notorious effort into incorporating passing/assists into his game are a testament to this), but can we stop acting like Pop is infallible at development?

Now, it's plain to see that Lonnie's confidence is shot. He doesn't trust his 3pt shot, doesn't trust his midrange, doesn't trust his finishing, and most importantly, doesn't trust himself as someone who can finish plays. He's just a passing machine at this point, and they're not even good, thought-out passes, but scared, don't-make-me-do-this kind of passes. Exactly what you do when you're scared of the repercussions of not passing. Why is it so unbelievable that Pop disliked Lonnie's scoring mentality (which he DID exhibit, in spades, at every point of his development before getting on the Spurs' big club, even in Austin he played nothing like he does today), and pressured him into changing, only for it to fail? I'm not saying Lonnie is blameless at all - at its core, he's the only one who's in his head and he should be playing better. But acting like Pop could not possibly have a part in this because the Spurs have more successes than failures, is just blind Pop-nerism.

It's ironic to think that Rookie Lonnie would run circles around second-year Lonnie, but it's true. He hasn't progressed on defense, despite Pop making it a point of emphasis/punishment for him, and has visibly regressed on offense. I'm still a believer, and definitely will hold out hope until next season, but all this talk about Lonnie is asinine when people pretend like he's the only one to blame for his bad play, then turn around and praise the Spurs' developmental programs for every other of our players' success.

Lonnie was an 11ppg scorer in college he was never a good college scorer like everyone thinks he is. Pop is trying to turn him into a positive impact player through defense or playmaking. Nobody is going to give the ball to an inefficient scorer with no playmaking skills and he can't be just a shooter with no plus defense. There are better scorers than Lonnie who are out of the league because of what he is lacking.

What you are seeing is his game since college. He was never a good foul drawer like a lot of great scorers. He was never good finishing around the rim. He had never been a good playmaker. He disappears in games. I don't see what the coaching staff broke because that is exactly what he is in college.

[Blackhaus]

Lonnie was an 11ppg scorer in college he was never a good college scorer like everyone thinks he is. Pop is trying to turn him into a positive impact player through defense or playmaking. Nobody is going to give the ball to an inefficient scorer with no playmaking skills and he can't be just a shooter with no plus defense. There are better scorers than Lonnie who are out of the league because of what he is lacking.

What you are seeing is his game since college. He was never a good foul drawer like a lot of great scorers. He was never good finishing around the rim. He had never been a good playmaker. He disappears in games. I don't see what the coaching staff broke because that is exactly what he is in college.

this pretty much. If he couldn’t jump like he can he would be Forbes or Gary Neal. He is what he is. His career will be based off how much he can be an instant offense guy off the bench. Wish him luck

[cd98]

He needs to play in the NBA, not the G-League. He's shown he can dominate the D-League. The question is whether his game is good enough for the NBA, and if so, what type of role. He's an NBA player, but he might be at the bottom of a roster or maybe he's good enough to make it to a starting lineup. But you won't know unless you play him in the NBA and let him struggle and learn. Murray was just as bad or worse in prior years, but you can see it all coming together for him now and he's definitely an NBA player with improving potential. Walker needs the same investment and patience.

[GAustex]

Walker needs to screw his head on straight and quit being a puss

[Sugus]

Lonnie was an 11ppg scorer in college he was never a good college scorer like everyone thinks he is. Pop is trying to turn him into a positive impact player through defense or playmaking. Nobody is going to give the ball to an inefficient scorer with no playmaking skills and he can't be just a shooter with no plus defense. There are better scorers than Lonnie who are out of the league because of what he is lacking.

What you are seeing is his game since college. He was never a good foul drawer like a lot of great scorers. He was never good finishing around the rim. He had never been a good playmaker. He disappears in games. I don't see what the coaching staff broke because that is exactly what he is in college.

I don't know how you can watch current Lonnie and think that he plays the same way he did in college - hell, he doesn't play like he did last season. I was never, ever infuriated at Lonnie over-passing like he does every single game now, last season, and I also never saw it once in the G-L (matter-of-factly, his "penchant for assists" so to speak, was really only notable after the COVID shutdown; I markedly remember being impressed by his "newfound" passing instincts during the bubble, as was Dejounte (lol in retrospect)).

A lot of facets of his game, yes, are the same or similar. But the things people are complaining about, he hasn't been doing all his life, that's for sure. He's shooting noticeably worse across the board as well (not "inefficient" bad, more like "playing hurt" bad), and it's not only about the numbers, but the confidence that he takes the shots with. That lack of confidence also wasn't a part of his game. Also, why do you say "nobody is going to give the ball to an inefficient scorer" as if Lonnie's some sort of cornerstone on a contending team? The Spurs are literally rebuilding and most rebuilding teams do exactly that, put the ball in their young players' hands so they can make mistakes, shoot their shots, and hopefully improve with experience and time. Like, yes, you don't give Lonnie every possession as if we were the Kings or Pistons with only one or two passable NBA-level prospects, but you can definitely let him play his game and see if that inefficiency sticks, or he can develop past it. Those scorers who are out of the league either don't have the athletic gifts Lonnie has (which will invariably and logically buy you better opportunities in a league like the NBA), or they've already been given chances, and failed to develop past their flaws (definitely a path Lonnie could be headed for).

At its core, I wanted to say that there's a very real possibility that Lonnie's development has been screwed/not good, and that it's not his fault alone. He has actively regressed in facets of the game where he'd been making progress, too. I'm holding out hope for him, because I really think he can be better and that we're seeing some of his worst ever play, but I don't know how you could have been watching him for years, then watch him in the last game against the Warriors, and tell me "yeah, that's who Lonnie's always been, tbh". It's simply not true - I don't care how many points he got in college, it's about his game. IMO, at least.

[Sugus]

He needs to play in the NBA, not the G-League. He's shown he can dominate the D-League. The question is whether his game is good enough for the NBA, and if so, what type of role. He's an NBA player, but he might be at the bottom of a roster or maybe he's good enough to make it to a starting lineup. But you won't know unless you play him in the NBA and let him struggle and learn. Murray was just as bad or worse in prior years, but you can see it all coming together for him now and he's definitely an NBA player with improving potential. Walker needs the same investment and patience.

Agreed. The poster who said this very thread could've been made about Dejounte two years ago was spot on. ST stays cliff-jumping, as always. I don't know how so many people here advocate for tanking... They wouldn't withstand the process, for sure.

[pad300]

Does anyone know if the Spurs keep a psychologist on staff? Just think about the number of young guys who need to improve their mental state:

Lonnie: in game concentration, toughness & smart aggression
Turtle: toughness & smart aggression (again)
Samanic : in game concentration, toughness and smart aggression (again)
& going back a couple of years
Slow-mo : smart aggression.

edit: Hell, a hypnotherapist might be an even better idea...

[rjv]

the argument that lonnie's game has suffered from a lack of development loses steam when there is obvious development in other players; it makes fare more sense to point to other factors.

[The Truth #6]

I don't understand why there can't be a middle ground re: Pop and his coaching methods. It's either Pop is the worst coach ever and ruins every player, which obviously isn't true, or Pop can do no wrong and his methods are always good and effective, which I personally don't think is true either. Especially on someone like Lonnie.

Why can't it be said that he's been badly coached/developed? Yes, the Spurs have a great, top-of-the-league developmental program, it still doesn't make it infallible. And Pop specifically had a particular, stick-and-stick approach to Lonnie, which from day 1 was apparent not to be the best way to bring him up. Ever since sending him to the G-L for his entire rookie season, hardly if ever calling him up (and when he did, didn't play him), he's been on Lonnie's ass all day, Tony Parker style. Last season was egregious - he was getting benched after the first missed rotation, whereas Forbes and Beli got cooked nightly without repercussions. He repeatedly was one of the Spurs who least saw the floor, including having the lowest amount of minutes played the very next game after his career outing against the Rockettes, and when he did play, he got chewed out. It's clear Pop didn't like his game, and was trying to mold him into something else (his notorious effort into incorporating passing/assists into his game are a testament to this), but can we stop acting like Pop is infallible at development?

Now, it's plain to see that Lonnie's confidence is shot. He doesn't trust his 3pt shot, doesn't trust his midrange, doesn't trust his finishing, and most importantly, doesn't trust himself as someone who can finish plays. He's just a passing machine at this point, and they're not even good, thought-out passes, but scared, don't-make-me-do-this kind of passes. Exactly what you do when you're scared of the repercussions of not passing. Why is it so unbelievable that Pop disliked Lonnie's scoring mentality (which he DID exhibit, in spades, at every point of his development before getting on the Spurs' big club, even in Austin he played nothing like he does today), and pressured him into changing, only for it to fail? I'm not saying Lonnie is blameless at all - at its core, he's the only one who's in his head and he should be playing better. But acting like Pop could not possibly have a part in this because the Spurs have more successes than failures, is just blind Pop-nerism.

It's ironic to think that Rookie Lonnie would run circles around second-year Lonnie, but it's true. He hasn't progressed on defense, despite Pop making it a point of emphasis/punishment for him, and has visibly regressed on offense. I'm still a believer, and definitely will hold out hope until next season, but all this talk about Lonnie is asinine when people pretend like he's the only one to blame for his bad play, then turn around and praise the Spurs' developmental programs for every other of our players' success.

I would add that Pop probably does well in making some players look better than the are (e.g. Jonathon Simmons) by putting them in a controlled system with a role and expectations that minimizes their shortcomings and accentuates their positives. If they have a high motor, then that helps as well.

For some players, I wonder if Pop's approach does impact their game, especially considering what skills they currently possess. With Lonnie, it isn't really clear what his strengths are yet. The most obvious is outside shooting and so he is in a role (purposefully or self-imposed I can't say) to be a spot up shooter with some drive and kick opportunities when the outside shot is crowded. I do think a different approach with Lonnie from another coach would be interesting to see. My gut feeling is that he would do better under Becky and assuming, or hoping, that she gets her chance next year to be the HC, then I would like to see that first before writing him off.

I agree that some set plays for all the players would be good. What it is now is sort of a mess and there are players who are more alpha (DJ and DD) who dominate the ball more, or vets trying to shoot their way into their next contract, and to me that is the dominant reality for the team on offense. I don't think Lonnie has enough confidence to get over this current hurdle. I wish he did. This is another roundabout way of saying I really wish the team had traded some vets so that we could have more of a clear path for some of the young players, and that includes Devin as well as Lonnie.

[Seventyniner]

This is another roundabout way of saying I really wish the team had traded some vets so that we could have more of a clear path for some of the young players, and that includes Devin as well as Lonnie.

Who would you have traded the vets for? It's hard to get other young players back (and how many more young players do the Spurs even need?), and you have to fill out the salary cap somehow.

If the Spurs let the vets walk this summer they will have done exactly what you want. A year later, but I don't see how they could have accomplished it this season.

[Ocotillo]

Vets are a valuable component of a team, especially a team with a lot of young talent. I am thinking of guys in the past like Jerome Kersey and Mario Elie or Terry Porter. Later, the Big three were the vets providing leadership and mentoring.

Like most, I don't think our current crop of vets fit that role except for maybe Patty. Demar and LMA are/were solid players but while I am not in the locker room, they don't strike me as the mentoring type. Demar has been saying some of the right things but at his salary, he is more a main cog than a mentor for the young guys to learn from.

[Sugus]

I would add that Pop probably does well in making some players look better than the are (e.g. Jonathon Simmons) by putting them in a controlled system with a role and expectations that minimizes their shortcomings and accentuates their positives. If they have a high motor, then that helps as well.

For some players, I wonder if Pop's approach does impact their game, especially considering what skills they currently possess. With Lonnie, it isn't really clear what his strengths are yet. The most obvious is outside shooting and so he is in a role (purposefully or self-imposed I can't say) to be a spot up shooter with some drive and kick opportunities when the outside shot is crowded. I do think a different approach with Lonnie from another coach would be interesting to see. My gut feeling is that he would do better under Becky and assuming, or hoping, that she gets her chance next year to be the HC, then I would like to see that first before writing him off.

I agree that some set plays for all the players would be good. What it is now is sort of a mess and there are players who are more alpha (DJ and DD) who dominate the ball more, or vets trying to shoot their way into their next contract, and to me that is the dominant reality for the team on offense. I don't think Lonnie has enough confidence to get over this current hurdle. I wish he did. This is another roundabout way of saying I really wish the team had traded some vets so that we could have more of a clear path for some of the young players, and that includes Devin as well as Lonnie.

I agree with everything you say, tbh. I also don't think Lonnie is one of the players who blossom/are raised by Pop's system, and Pop certainly hasn't done much to integrate him into the offense in other ways beyond spot-up shooting. As you say, I'd love to see him under a different HC... Posters here will disagree and say every player needs to learn how to be a roleplayer first, before handling the ball, but there's a lot of examples of that not being necessarily true, and also a lot of examples of coaches trying to mold players down and force their games into a specific archetype, to the detriment of said player. We can only hope Pop calls it quits sooner than later... I've already said here that it's a matter of Lonnie outlasting Pop on the Spurs :lol

Also spot-on about the ball domination. I like DJ being aggressive and his scoring really helps the team, but he's also not great at setting up offensive sets (yet) and the rest of the players suffer; the opposite happens when White is on the court, since he is a much better and more natural playmaker (I'm hoping Pop plays Lonnie at the 3 and goes something like DJ-White-Lonnie-Keldon-Poeltl sooner rather than later, now that White's back, so they can share the court). At its core though, I realize the main problem is Lonnie's confidence in himself and his own game, and I don't know how/if that can be fixed. Until it is, the team can try to make him a better roleplayer, but I don't think he'll reach his ceiling.

It's good that next season is both the deadline for all our vets' deals, and also Lonnie's last season on contract. The true make-or-break moment, IMO, beyond anything he does or doesn't do this season. If he hasn't picked it up by then, I see him dealt at the trade deadline even, or in the off-season. Here's to hoping it doesn't come to that....

[Sugus]

Who would you have traded the vets for? It's hard to get other young players back (and how many more young players do the Spurs even need?), and you have to fill out the salary cap somehow.

If the Spurs let the vets walk this summer they will have done exactly what you want. A year later, but I don't see how they could have accomplished it this season.

There were definitely ways to deal LMA this off-season, before he lost all value. He was playing well (for his standards) before missing the bubble, so he was more of an unknown in regards to how he'd play, but it was still a positive asset. I also think Rudy Gay could've net the Spurs a pick and a middling talent from a contending team, especially after the Lakers reinforced their roster and were looking like they were a ways away from the rest of the contenders. I don't think the Spurs would've dealt Patty last off-season whatsoever, nor DeMar, though IMO they should've.

There also isn't any shame in using one of our own picks to trade up, in the sense of getting a better player than we'd be sending out. A good PF for Rudy Gay and a pick was an easy deal to be had, for example. The Spurs are the only team in the league that doesn't even think about using their own picks to get better players, and while I agree to an extent given how well they draft, there's definitely the occasions when you should "go for it" (like they did for getting Nephew).

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

You can’t blame Pop this season for Lonnie under achieving. You have young guys like Vassell and Keldon who have been on the team and in the league less years than Lonnie and they are aggressive when given minutes.

Lonnie has to work on his basketball IQ and aggressiveness.

[Sugus]

Vets are a valuable component of a team, especially a team with a lot of young talent. I am thinking of guys in the past like Jerome Kersey and Mario Elie or Terry Porter. Later, the Big three were the vets providing leadership and mentoring.

Like most, I don't think our current crop of vets fit that role except for maybe Patty. Demar and LMA are/were solid players but while I am not in the locker room, they don't strike me as the mentoring type. Demar has been saying some of the right things but at his salary, he is more a main cog than a mentor for the young guys to learn from.

Yep. Not to mention the young guys haven't really been "picking up" much from DeMar at all... I was really hoping, after we signed him, that besides playing for us, he could teach some of his excellent footwork and post moves to the rest of the youngs. But so far I haven't seen anything from any of them to suggest they're picking up on DeMar's fundamentals, and it's been quite some time. As you say, our current crop of vets isn't so much the "mentorship" type (someone like CP3 for example (and no, I still wouldn't trade for him, gambit, gtfo)) but the "play the game" type, so to speak. Not to mention none of them, besides Patty, are at a point in their careers where they recognize they're closer to leaving the league than staying in it, and their value is mentoring (at least neither Rudy nor LMA seem to embrace that role, on the court at least, instead doing their own thing like they're playing for another contract).

So it's not a lot of value to these current vets, tbh. I was also hoping Patty would teach Lonnie off-ball movement, but that also doesn't look like it's gonna happen anytime soon....

[Dejounte]

Yep. Not to mention the young guys haven't really been "picking up" much from DeMar at all... I was really hoping, after we signed him, that besides playing for us, he could teach some of his excellent footwork and post moves to the rest of the youngs. But so far I haven't seen anything from any of them to suggest they're picking up on DeMar's fundamentals, and it's been quite some time. As you say, our current crop of vets isn't so much the "mentorship" type (someone like CP3 for example (and no, I still wouldn't trade for him, gambit, gtfo)) but the "play the game" type, so to speak. Not to mention none of them, besides Patty, are at a point in their careers where they recognize they're closer to leaving the league than staying in it, and their value is mentoring (at least neither Rudy nor LMA seem to embrace that role, on the court at least, instead doing their own thing like they're playing for another contract).

So it's not a lot of value to these current vets, tbh. I was also hoping Patty would teach Lonnie off-ball movement, but that also doesn't look like it's gonna happen anytime soon....

I think if there's anything they probably picked up, it would be DeMar's "preparation". I don't know. It just doesn't make sense to me to listen to all these player interviews and hear them constantly praise the vets on the team for "talking to them a lot" or "being a leader". I'd like to lean towards believing these guys more... otherwise, why would they say it when no one's asking? Yes, I agree with you, I wish they could show it more tangibly, but maybe it's more on the student and not the teacher? Maybe Kawhi was just a superhuman in that aspect of absorbing other players' moves? I mean, I did note a couple times Keldon copying DeMar's fadeaway move... it looked very mechanical though.

[Sugus]

You can’t blame Pop this season for Lonnie under achieving. You have young guys like Vassell and Keldon who have been on the team and in the league less years than Lonnie and they are aggressive when given minutes.

Lonnie has to work on his basketball IQ and aggressiveness.

C'mon, give me some credit.... I've been saying Pop would ruin Lonnie's development since at least last season, when he was getting pulled at the first mistake whilst Forbes and Beli stayed on the court no matter how awful their defense was. At first the argument was "well, this is Pop's way of showing him "tough love" like he did with Tony, he'll grow from this!!", except that Lonnie never got back on the court after getting pulled and chewed out, and rarely was let play (him having the lowest amount of minutes played on the team the very next game after his career outing against Houston was more than enough evidence of this, tbh). Alas, it doesn't look like Pop's tough love has gotten Lonnie better whatsoever. Can you accurately say that it's 100% on Lonnie for not growing through that coaching, and not at least partly on Pop for not adapting his approach/recognizing it wasn't helping Lonnie? I know I couldn't...

And yes, Vassell and Keldon have both been great. It doesn't mean every player should, or could, follow their developmental curve. I do agree Lonnie has a lot to work on... I'm just starting to doubt the Spurs are the team he'll work these things out with. Maybe Chino will make me eat my words, after all...

[rankingtear]

C'mon, give me some credit.... I've been saying Pop would ruin Lonnie's development since at least last season, when he was getting pulled at the first mistake whilst Forbes and Beli stayed on the court no matter how awful their defense was. At first the argument was "well, this is Pop's way of showing him "tough love" like he did with Tony, he'll grow from this!!", except that Lonnie never got back on the court after getting pulled and chewed out, and rarely was let play (him having the lowest amount of minutes played on the team the very next game after his career outing against Houston was more than enough evidence of this, tbh). Alas, it doesn't look like Pop's tough love has gotten Lonnie better whatsoever. Can you accurately say that it's 100% on Lonnie for not growing through that coaching, and not at least partly on Pop for not adapting his approach/recognizing it wasn't helping Lonnie? I know I couldn't...

And yes, Vassell and Keldon have both been great. It doesn't mean every player should, or could, follow their developmental curve. I do agree Lonnie has a lot to work on... I'm just starting to doubt the Spurs are the team he'll work these things out with. Maybe Chino will make me eat my words, after all...

Give Lonnie more usage and he is Dion Waiters. Are there any guard in the league getting 20+ usage without being a pick and roll ballhandler? The only way Lonnie becomes a positive player without turning him to a defender or playmaker is if he suddenly becomes an efficient isolation scorer. So the argument is if we give Lonnie the keys to the offense ( bench lineup ) his rookie year would he be an efficient foul drawer and finisher at year 3?

[buttsR4rebounding]

Lonnie “Samson” Walker just needs to grow his hair back.

[The Truth #6]

Who would you have traded the vets for? It's hard to get other young players back (and how many more young players do the Spurs even need?), and you have to fill out the salary cap somehow.

If the Spurs let the vets walk this summer they will have done exactly what you want. A year later, but I don't see how they could have accomplished it this season.

Trades are still legal. If you can't trade some of our vets for picks, then you trade them for positions of need and/or more complementary players that play more of a team system who do not dominate the ball. Even if they got back veterans, they could have been veterans that are 3 point shooters (but not chuckers) or big men that rebound (but don't need to dominate the ball and calcify the offense). There are always lots of possibilities. I understand that the Spurs prefer to ride out their contracts to give options in free agency, however I don't know if counting on free agency is a very successful way to build the team given that most players in demand prefer to play on one of the coasts.

[John B]

If only Lonnie has Manu’s one cajones. He’s scared shit out there to defy Pop. While DJ has that natural, “I got this Pop.” Lonnie doesn’t have that. He needs to get his confidence back, let him do mistakes as long as he is playing great defense. But he’s messing up on that part too.

[KobesAchilles]

Give Lonnie more usage and he is Dion Waiters. Are there any guard in the league getting 20+ usage without being a pick and roll ballhandler? The only way Lonnie becomes a positive player without turning him to a defender or playmaker is if he suddenly becomes an efficient isolation scorer. So the argument is if we give Lonnie the keys to the offense ( bench lineup ) his rookie year would he be an efficient foul drawer and finisher at year 3?

It's not really about increasing his usage to 20+, it's more of the fact that he was badly used when he did play. Lonnie should've always been put in a gunner mentality and role. He also should've been played after he made his mistake instead of watching older useless vets make the same mistakes he made. I don't think there really was much positive coaching from Pop to him last year. It's hard to argue that there was. He made a mistake and would get benched for 3 games. He played well, he still got benched for 3 games. He sat behind the two most useless players on our team. He had zero plays drawn for him or designed for him. Hell, even Marco had plays drawn up for him.

This year, he is being used differently and I like Pop's mindset when it comes to coaching. He is letting his players play. Lonnie got abused by many players defensively and he kept him in there. There is learning experiences from going up against Jason Tatum, Lebron, Kawhi. At the end of the day, it's on him, but there really is no Spur we can compare him to that I can think of as far as his treatment went. I mean even Beno played the next game and Pop hated Beno :lol

[The Truth #6]

If only Lonnie has Manu’s one cajones. He’s scared shit out there to defy Pop. While DJ has that natural, “I got this Pop.” Lonnie doesn’t have that. He needs to get his confidence back, let him do mistakes as long as he is playing great defense. But he’s messing up on that part too.

I totally agree. I think he is trying to play mistake-free basketball.

With defense, I'm convinced he could play way more aggressively (because he has before). But he doesn't want to foul, and so he is keeping his hands up and sort of funneling his player without making any contact, but obviously this isn't working that well. It feels like he's trying to follow instructions too literally and making himself sort of a robot.

The paradox with Pop is that if you are going to be a good or great player under his watch you sort of have to defy him and just play your game until Pop comes around. That's what Manu did. That's what Lamar did, at least initially until he was in a contract year. That's what DD has done, at least initially until he was in a contract year. I think there are more examples, like SJax, though that ran its course.

The challenge is that you have to have certain high level skills or confidence to do that, and Lonnie is still ways away from that and is still figuring it all out.

[The Truth #6]

It's not really about increasing his usage to 20+, it's more of the fact that he was badly used when he did play. Lonnie should've always been put in a gunner mentality and role. He also should've been played after he made his mistake instead of watching older useless vets make the same mistakes he made. I don't think there really was much positive coaching from Pop to him last year. It's hard to argue that there was. He made a mistake and would get benched for 3 games. He played well, he still got benched for 3 games. He sat behind the two most useless players on our team. He had zero plays drawn for him or designed for him. Hell, even Marco had plays drawn up for him.

This year, he is being used differently and I like Pop's mindset when it comes to coaching. He is letting his players play. Lonnie got abused by many players defensively and he kept him in there. There is learning experiences from going up against Jason Tatum, Lebron, Kawhi. At the end of the day, it's on him, but there really is no Spur we can compare him to that I can think of as far as his treatment went. I mean even Beno played the next game and Pop hated Beno :lol

I totally agree and would add that I think, just an armchair theory, that Pop has had to keep himself under control and eat so much shit with his vets since Kawhi left, relatively speaking, and so he has put most of his typical aggressive coaching into the young players instead. Last year for sure, and Lonnie got the bulk of it. This year it's like he has sort of thrown his hands up in the air, he is waiting for the Olympics if it ever happens, and with the loss of his wife, he just wants to enjoy the camdraderie of the team for his last season ever while buying expensive dinners for the team. Anyway, that's my theory. His style this year is very atypical for him.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

C'mon, give me some credit.... I've been saying Pop would ruin Lonnie's development since at least last season, when he was getting pulled at the first mistake whilst Forbes and Beli stayed on the court no matter how awful their defense was. At first the argument was "well, this is Pop's way of showing him "tough love" like he did with Tony, he'll grow from this!!", except that Lonnie never got back on the court after getting pulled and chewed out, and rarely was let play (him having the lowest amount of minutes played on the team the very next game after his career outing against Houston was more than enough evidence of this, tbh). Alas, it doesn't look like Pop's tough love has gotten Lonnie better whatsoever. Can you accurately say that it's 100% on Lonnie for not growing through that coaching, and not at least partly on Pop for not adapting his approach/recognizing it wasn't helping Lonnie? I know I couldn't...

And yes, Vassell and Keldon have both been great. It doesn't mean every player should, or could, follow their developmental curve. I do agree Lonnie has a lot to work on... I'm just starting to doubt the Spurs are the team he'll work these things out with. Maybe Chino will make me eat my words, after all...

90% Lonnie
10% Coaching staff

is at fault and that’s being generous in my opinion. he has to be more aggressive and study more film to fix his flaws

[rankingtear]

It's not really about increasing his usage to 20+, it's more of the fact that he was badly used when he did play. Lonnie should've always been put in a gunner mentality and role. He also should've been played after he made his mistake instead of watching older useless vets make the same mistakes he made. I don't think there really was much positive coaching from Pop to him last year. It's hard to argue that there was. He made a mistake and would get benched for 3 games. He played well, he still got benched for 3 games. He sat behind the two most useless players on our team. He had zero plays drawn for him or designed for him. Hell, even Marco had plays drawn up for him.

This year, he is being used differently and I like Pop's mindset when it comes to coaching. He is letting his players play. Lonnie got abused by many players defensively and he kept him in there. There is learning experiences from going up against Jason Tatum, Lebron, Kawhi. At the end of the day, it's on him, but there really is no Spur we can compare him to that I can think of as far as his treatment went. I mean even Beno played the next game and Pop hated Beno :lol

He was getting more minutes by the time you stopped watching the games. He is at 18 usage last year the same as this year, that is the upper end without being a ball handling guard.

[John B]

I totally agree. I think he is trying to play mistake-free basketball.

With defense, I'm convinced he could play way more aggressively (because he has before). But he doesn't want to foul, and so he is keeping his hands up and sort of funneling his player without making any contact, but obviously this isn't working that well. It feels like he's trying to follow instructions too literally and making himself sort of a robot.

The paradox with Pop is that if you are going to be a good or great player under his watch you sort of have to defy him and just play your game until Pop comes around. That's what Manu did. That's what Lamar did, at least initially until he was in a contract year. That's what DD has done, at least initially until he was in a contract year. I think there are more examples, like SJax, though that ran its course.

The challenge is that you have to have certain high level skills or confidence to do that, and Lonnie is still ways away from that and is still figuring it all out.

The consolation I see is that Pop knows Lonnie has more to give. He wouldn't be hard on him if he didn't. And I can't recall any player, as of yet, that Pop messed up their development. Spurs might have given up too early on Mahinmi. But on the most part, players have always came out better, Gary Neal, Simmons, Baynes. I still have high hopes on Lonnie

[FkLA]

So so soft. Passive against third stringers. Unit that he was supposed to lead let the lead shrink from 40 to 15 in like 7 minutes of gameplay. :lol

[Dejounte]

So so soft. Passive against third stringers. Unit that he was supposed to lead let the lead shrink from 40 to 15 in like 7 minutes of gameplay. :lol

Man, when he had the ball in the paint and passed it back to Eubanks. THAT play pissed me the fuck off.

[ducks]

Seems like he is got an issue with his mind

Yeah he refuses to celebrate the 4 of July

[cjw]

He just turned 22. Underperforming? Yes. But he has room and time to get better. Murray and KJ’s growth, along with the vets providing stability plus White / Poeltl being solid puts less pressure on him. I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt he’ll figure it out as the year goes on.

And even if he’s a Lou Williams spark plug guy off the bench, that’s not a bad guy to have around. He knocks down threes at a serviceable clip, so will stick in the league.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

what happened to the guy that had back to back 20+ scoring games with derozan out?

[Dejounte]

He just turned 22. Underperforming? Yes. But he has room and time to get better. Murray and KJ’s growth, along with the vets providing stability plus White / Poeltl being solid puts less pressure on him. I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt he’ll figure it out as the year goes on.

And even if he’s a Lou Williams spark plug guy off the bench, that’s not a bad guy to have around. He knocks down threes at a serviceable clip, so will stick in the league.

Exactly. He's got a lot of time to figure out a steady NBA career. It seems he's good for chemistry, seeing as how he's getting along with Keldon. He's not a malcontent. He loves the city. If he turns out to be a Lou, it's not a bad thing. If he becomes something more, then great. Just don't overpay him if he truly is just a Lou.

[SpurPadre]

He just turned 22. Underperforming? Yes. But he has room and time to get better. Murray and KJ’s growth, along with the vets providing stability plus White / Poeltl being solid puts less pressure on him. I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt he’ll figure it out as the year goes on.

And even if he’s a Lou Williams spark plug guy off the bench, that’s not a bad guy to have around. He knocks down threes at a serviceable clip, so will stick in the league.

Yeah, you're right. It's easy to be alarmed by his recent play but we can't lose sight of the fact that the talent is there and he's had a couple 20 point games already this season.

[FkLA]

White and Murray already got paid. KJ is younger and has already clearly surpassed him. Vassell is also younger and a rookie and has arguably already surpassed him as well.

They cant pay all of them anyways. Lonnie is the odd man out. They shouldn't hesitate to package him with LMA/Gay to upgrade the frontcourt, tbh.

[John B]

He looks like he’s trying too hard to distribute. But one game I saw Pop pulled him and reinserted again and he started shooting. So Pop definitely wants him to be aggressive as well. Come on Lonnie. The guy can erupt to 30 points and that’s the worst part. He’s like a Lambo cruising at Nacogdoches. Let it rip!

[The Truth #6]

He looks like he’s trying too hard to distribute. But one game I saw Pop pulled him and reinserted again and he started shooting. So Pop definitely wants him to be aggressive as well. Come on Lonnie. The guy can erupt to 30 points and that’s the worst part. He’s like a Lambo cruising at Nacogdoches. Let it rip!

So true.

[talkspurs]

White and Murray already got paid. KJ is younger and has already clearly surpassed him. Vassell is also younger and a rookie and has arguably already surpassed him as well.

They cant pay all of them anyways. Lonnie is the odd man out. They shouldn't hesitate to package him with LMA/Gay to upgrade the frontcourt, tbh.

I have been saying this for awhile now and no one wanted to believe me. Most wanted to get rid of DJM and the ones that didnt wanted to get rid of white. I was always saying Lonnie was the one we should trade while his value was high.

[Blackhaus]

When has his value been high? He’s a throw in in another trade that the Spurs will never make.

[Dejounte]

When has his value been high? He’s a throw in in another trade that the Spurs will never make.

You'd be surprised. A lot of other teams' fans think highly of Lonnie. Maybe it was high during those two 30 pt games, or before the season started.

[John B]

Lonnie is very capable. He just needs to get a little selfish. I’m rooting for him to get his breakout in one of these away games. The guys are tight. They get along great and enjoy playing together. Just keep sending him positive vibes.

[couchman]

Lonnie needs to develop a finishing move at the rim. It is the same problem DJM had. DJM solved it this year and that has unlocked his game. If Lonnie can do the same he can become a very valuable scorer. Otherwise he is just a spot up shooter w mediocre defense. His dunks are exciting, but don't add to winning, as they usually require him to be wide open to the rim.

[couchman]

*doublepost*

[stephen jackson]

I’m afraid him leaving and averaging 25 plus on the hornets or bulls or some other shitty team out east is inevitable.. wel be crying but it just doesn’t click here with us for some reason

[Dejounte]

I’m afraid him leaving and averaging 25 plus on the hornets or bulls or some other shitty team out east is inevitable.. wel be crying but it just doesn’t click here with us for some reason

Or it could turn out to be exactly like Jonathon Simmons. It's not "inevitable".

[C-Dub]

LW4 has 1 more year left on his current contract after this season. It sets up well to see if he will get it together and of Tre Jones will continue to flourish in the G-league this year and next season. If Tre continues to show what he's showing and develop more it will come down to if the Spurs want to keep Patty Mills or not. If they resign Patty this offseason and LW4 doesn't show progression, then the Spurs will not resign him after next season and instead roll with Tre Jones as the backup PG and Patty at the backup SG. Even though that is small ball, but at least Tre has defense, unlike Forbes when he was running with Patty.

[TD 21]

He just turned 22. Underperforming? Yes. But he has room and time to get better. Murray and KJ’s growth, along with the vets providing stability plus White / Poeltl being solid puts less pressure on him. I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt he’ll figure it out as the year goes on.

And even if he’s a Lou Williams spark plug guy off the bench, that’s not a bad guy to have around. He knocks down threes at a serviceable clip, so will stick in the league.

He does, but if he were going to be a positive impact player, we'd have likely either seen it or at least seen signs by now (as was the case with Poeltl, Murray, White, Johnson, Vassell), beared out by metrics.

I don't see him being a Crawford/Williams type. They were/are combo guards, who excelled/excel at creating their own shot.

His best chance to leverage his athleticism and speed in the half court, is going to be driving closeouts, coming off DHO's after a ball reversal, curling off wide pindowns, etc. In other words, having the offense get him a head start on the defense and punishing them in rotation.

[rankingtear]

Once KobeAchilles start shitting on him he would get better.

[KobesAchilles]

Once KobeAchilles start shitting on him he would get better.
I did? I don’t really remember that. I’m pretty sure I was shitting on how Pop coached him last year. I did say that he isn’t a dawg and this one game doesn’t really prove that he is. He’s just doing exactly what I said he should do. Come off the bench and just take shots and not give a fuck about it. His passing was nice tonight too and if that is going to be part of his game then that’s a great bonus. But muthfukka needs to focus on aggression and scoring