The Last of Us - HBO series

[Xevious]

Ellie and Joel have been cast:

https://amp.theguardian.com/games/2021/feb/11/bella-ramsey-pedro-pascal-the-last-of-us-tv-series-video-games

Lyanna Mormont and the Mandalorian. Pedro is good, but he definitely isn't who I think of for Joel. And I don't know that I've seen Ramsey in anything other than GoT. Should be good though. I wonder how close they are to filming now that the principals have been cast.

[RD2191]

Yeah. Pedro is a badass but I definitely see a white guy as Joel. :lol

[Leetonidas]

Not happy about the casting at all, but they're good actors so i will reserve judgement til i see them in action. But the girl they picked, i just don't see her as Ellie at all. Pascal I can kinda see as Joel I guess but he still better have a thick texan accent

[spurraider21]

mormont should be good tbh. i wonder if oberyn can pull it off. he's a good actor, but weird role.

[Xevious]

Yeah. Pedro is a badass but I definitely see a white guy as Joel. :lol
Yeah I kind if pictured Josh Brolin from No Country for Old Men as Joel.

[RD2191]

Yeah I kind if pictured Josh Brolin from No Country for Old Men as Joel.
For some reason I thought Brolin was older, looked it up and he's only 53. :lol Definitely one of my favorite actors, up there with Kurt Russell.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Never played it, but I'm in. HBO always gets benefit of the doubt, until proven wrong, imo.

[Texas_Ranger]

i hope they can get the Rock for Abby.

[Reck]

i hope they can get the Rock for Abby.

:lol

I hope they run with the last of us 1 story and completely go another way with it. The less Druckman involvement the better.

[Texas_Ranger]

:lol

I hope they run with the last of us 1 story and completely go another way with it. The less Druckman involvement the better.

well it will be just the first game, at least the first season. The game also is pretty much like a movie/series, so idk how they'll make it interesting for people that played it or know about it.

[Leetonidas]

Minus her golf trip with Joel, I liked Abby tbh. I hope the series goes far enough to get to that point to include her in it. would be neat if they just hired the actress for her model, Jocelyn Mettler, to be the actress. The model they based Dina on is pretty hot irl also



wonder how close to the script they are going to stick. still have a few more big roles to fill (Tommy, Tess, Henry & Sam)

[Xevious]

Drunkman is closely involved with development, so anyone expecting them to take a different direction with Joel, or hoping that Abby is not included will be disappointed.

That said, I don't expect it to be a beat-for-beat remake of the games. Video game adaptations never are.

[Reck]

Drunkman is closely involved with development, so anyone expecting them to take a different direction with Joel, or hoping that Abby is not included will be disappointed.

That said, I don't expect it to be a beat-for-beat remake of the games. Video game adaptations never are.

This is a pet project anyways. It won't live long.

1...maybe 2 seasons tops.

[Xevious]

This is a pet project anyways. It won't live long.

1...maybe 2 seasons tops.
I'm okay with a shorter series as long as there's an ending point and it isn't cancelled prematurely. I'd much rather have a two-season, tightly focused series than some never ending mess like The Walking Dead.

[Xevious]

1442293121346248711

[Reck]

1442293121346248711

That looks super low budget quality.

I know it's only a picture but still :lol

[monosylab1k]

That looks super low budget quality.

I know it's only a picture but still :lol

I was trying to figure out of it was supposed to be a CGI animated show, it looked so bad :lol I mean I know they can’t hire Roger Deakins to do an HBO show but you’d think they could do a little better than that.

[Xevious]

Something does seem off with the lighting, it's probably a green screen. They have a pretty high budget per episode, so I'm sure that isn't what the series will actually look like. It's just a tease.

[lefty20]

We're likely a year away from the release date. It'd make sense that this is just an unedited screen grab form one of the first shoots.

[Xevious]

Last of Us day, the first full teaser dropped...

rBRRDpQ0yc0

Looks pretty faithful, as expected. Most scenes are easily identifiable.

[Joseph Kony]

Really hyped for this one

[Xevious]

uLtkt8BonwM

[BD24]

This should be dope tbh. Glad it’s HBO that is doing it

[lefty20]

The Last of US - A GoT Spinoff by HBO

Prince Oberyn and Lady Mormont trynna survive in modern world taken over by the Walkers.

[benefactor]

This should be dope tbh. Glad it’s HBO that is doing it
Yeah it will be good for one fucking season. HBO started strong with the series game now they are trash just like Netflix. Ill watch but I'm not holding my breath

[Monostradamus]

Pedro Pascal is great, but seems horribly miscast here.

[Xevious]

Pedro Pascal is great, but seems horribly miscast here.

Truth be told, I'm not 100% sold on either principle stars. Though the series looks faithful, I'm expecting a different feel to the characters. They apparently told Ramsey and Pascal to not play the games before shooting.

[spurraider21]

Pedro Pascal is great, but seems horribly miscast here.
yeah honestly i have no clue how Pascal could pull off the role of a rugged loner badass who softens up after taking on an adoptive father role to a child he has to shepherd to safety with a very small handful of friends/people he can trust along the way

[spurraider21]

Truth be told, I'm not 100% sold on either principle stars. Though the series looks faithful, I'm expecting a different feel to the characters. They apparently told Ramsey and Pascal to not play the games before shooting.
im less convinced about Ramsey. i have no specific reason to doubt, i just havent seen her in anything extensive. thought she owned basically every scene she was in as Mormont, but that doesnt necessarily add up to a lead role as Ellie

telling them not to play the game sounded dumb at first... but a long as they read the scripts for it, its probably fine. probably too much pressure to specifically recreate every little speech pattern in the big scenes if they watched it. let them do their own thing.

[Joseph Kony]

i was fine with the casting until I saw that joel's daughter is black now :lol come on man

[spurraider21]

i was fine with the casting until I saw that joel's daughter is black now :lol come on mantoo lazy to format it, but
https://i.imgflip.com/6cqi82.jpg

[Xevious]

i was fine with the casting until I saw that joel's daughter is black now :lol come on man
That's probably the thing that bothers me the least. :lol I mean, Joel's ex-wife has never been shown or even named. As long as the actress that plays Sarah nails her 15 minutes of screen time, what does it really matter if she or her mom are black?

[Monostradamus]

yeah honestly i have no clue how Pascal could pull off the role of a rugged loner badass who softens up after taking on an adoptive father role to a child he has to shepherd to safety with a very small handful of friends/people he can trust along the way
Whoops my bad I didn’t see where he was wearing a full suit of armor as Joel the whole time, my mistake tbh.

[Joseph Kony]

That's probably the thing that bothers me the least. :lol I mean, Joel's ex-wife has never been shown or even named. As long as the actress that plays Sarah nails her 15 minutes of screen time, what does it really matter if she or her mom are black?
100% guarantee you it aint gonna be 15 mins of screentime. they're going to play heavily on flashbacks imo

tbh i dont actually care, it's not gonna deter me from watching it but its one of those things thats just like, why. there is already plenty of diversity in the cast. unless they just wanted the first person to die to be black :lol

[spurraider21]

Whoops my bad I didn’t see where he was wearing a full suit of armor as Joel the whole time, my mistake tbh.
so basically he can pull off the same role but only if he doesnt look a little chilean while doing it

[Monostradamus]

so basically he can pull off the same role but only if he doesnt look a little chilean while doing it
Why not put Arnold Schwarzenegger in that role, he’s been a badass who connects with children and the only difference is hE’d LoOk a LiTtLe AuStRiAn!

[Monostradamus]

The Rock as Joel!

-badass
-good with kids
-only difference is he looks a little Samoan!

[spurraider21]

ah yes. schwartzenegger, the rock, and pedro pascal. 3 equal quality actors

[spurraider21]

do vin diesel next

[Monostradamus]

ah yes. schwartzenegger, the rock, and pedro pascal. 3 equal quality actors
Oh sorry, I missed all the SAG awards on Pedro Pascal’s shelf. And good actors can still be miscast.

[Leetonidas]

I'm gonna watch it regardless but the insistence to not cast characters how they look in the source material is kinda getting annoying. I'm not gonna take to social media and cry about it because it ain't really a big deal but it would be nice to get a faithful adaptation of an existing IP for once

[Leetonidas]

Nick Offerman looks great as Bill though, thats a perfect casting choice

[spurraider21]

I'm gonna watch it regardless but the insistence to not cast characters how they look in the source material is kinda getting annoying. I'm not gonna take to social media and cry about it because it ain't really a big deal but it would be nice to get a faithful adaptation of an existing IP for once
tom cruise was the best possible choice for jack reacher, though

[spurraider21]

i hate that they cast hugh jackman as wolverine because the character is supposed to be short and jackman is 6'3

[Leetonidas]

tom cruise was the best possible choice for jack reacher, though

Didn't watch his reacher and don't really care tbh. Just my opinion. You are welcome to (clearly) disagree

The casting choice for the Reacher show on Amazon was much better though

[Leetonidas]

Of course some actors will be so good that they transcend the role and make it their own. There is a difference between being miffed by certain casting choices and being a dickwad crying about wokeness and refusing to watch it. And I reserve the right to end up enjoying the choice once I see the performance. So maybe take those silly examples elsewhere. Im not Nathan or calf tats :lol

[spurraider21]

Didn't watch his reacher and don't really care tbh. Just my opinion. You are welcome to (clearly) disagree

The casting choice for the Reacher show on Amazon was much better though
that was more of a meme joke because avante complained like crazy that tom cruise was way too short to be reacher

[Xevious]

that was more of a meme joke because avante complained like crazy that tom cruise was way too short to be reacher
And Chump kept insisting that Cruise was perfect for the role, pissing Avante off each time. :lol

[SpursforSix]

And Chump kept insisting that Cruise was perfect for the role, pissing Avante off each time. :lol


Ha~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Judy....another Lee Child novel? Those Jack Reacher stories?
Avante...yep, have them all. Great reads.
Judy....I heard there is a movie coming out...Jack Reacher.
Avante...nay.

Hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

About five or so years ago I'm at this yard sale. Lady has a lot of books.

Lady...I bet you'd like Lee Child.
Avante...why do you say that?
Lady....he writes about a big guy like you.
Avante...ha!!! Ok, I'm sold.

So I bought the half dozen or so she had and some Luke Short, Harlan Ellison and Norman Mailer.

The first Reacher I read was....Without Fail.....yep, hooked!

She had him pegged.

[Leetonidas]

that was more of a meme joke because avante complained like crazy that tom cruise was way too short to be reacher

Ah gotcha, hadn't seen that thread I guess :lol

[spurraider21]

reviews so far are top tier

[BD24]

Damn. Didn’t realize episode 1 was already out. Will have to give it a watch at some point this week

[Xevious]

Damn. Didn’t realize episode 1 was already out. Will have to give it a watch at some point this week
It premieres on the 15th, Sunday night. Reviews have been dropping this week though.

[SpursforSix]

Festivus for the Last of Us

[spurraider21]

popular/funny gaming channel


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcuJueKMrAM

[DMX7]

It's out. Impressive reviews for the first episode.

[BD24]

Episode 1 was pretty dope. Got me excited. Anyone know if every episode gonna be 1.5 hours? Or was they just because this was the premiere?

[Xevious]

Episode 1 was pretty dope. Got me excited. Anyone know if every episode gonna be 1.5 hours? Or was they just because this was the premiere?
Just the premiere.

The episode was great, but there were a few changes that have me worried. Joel and Tess are snuggling drugs instead of guns, it didn't show them torture and kill Robert, and they were planning on going to Tommy's even before meeting Ellie. These all seem like minor things, but I'm worried that they are going to downplay just how bad of a person Joel had become during the 20 year gap.

[leemajors]

As someone who knows nothing about the video game, is this worth checking out?

[Xevious]

As someone who knows nothing about the video game, is this worth checking out?
Yeah of course. It shares a lot of similarities with other post-apocalyptic stories. But the game itself was very cinematic and character-driven. It'll translate very well with reduced action. It didn't receive an assload of perfect scores for it's gameplay. It's the characters/story that drew people in.

[leemajors]

Yeah of course. It shares a lot of similarities with other post-apocalyptic stories. But the game itself was very cinematic and character-driven. It'll translate very well with reduced action. It didn't receive an assload of perfect scores for it's gameplay. It's the characters/story that drew people in.

Cool, thanks!

[spurraider21]

Just the premiere.

The episode was great, but there were a few changes that have me worried. Joel and Tess are snuggling drugs instead of guns, it didn't show them torture and kill Robert, and they were planning on going to Tommy's even before meeting Ellie. These all seem like minor things, but I'm worried that they are going to downplay just how bad of a person Joel had become during the 20 year gap.
i think well before release they said they were going to tone down the violence/gore from the game. which makes sense. i imagine the god of war show will also tone down the violence quite a bit from the gameplay else it just becomes repetitive exhausting over a full season worth of content.

[Xevious]

i think well before release they said they were going to tone down the violence/gore from the game. which makes sense. i imagine the god of war show will also tone down the violence quite a bit from the gameplay else it just becomes repetitive exhausting over a full season worth of content.
Yeah I get that. I just felt like that particular scene kind of showed what type of people Joel and Tess are. Though I suppose having Joel pummel that Fedra soldier to death did the same thing. I just hope they keep his "I've been on both sides" conversation with Ellie, and his fight with Tommy about how they had to survive in the 20 year gap. I always liked that Joel did some fucked up shit over the years.

[Leetonidas]

Yeah I get that. I just felt like that particular scene kind of showed what type of people Joel and Tess are. Though I suppose having Joel pummel that Fedra soldier to death did the same thing. I just hope they keep his "I've been on both sides" conversation with Ellie, and his fight with Tommy about how they had to survive in the 20 year gap. I always liked that Joel did some fucked up shit over the years.

Hope they keep this scene in it too:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEpI0uXpLPw

"That's alright. I believe him"

[benefactor]

Good first episode tbh

[spurraider21]

Casting choices all looked good in the premiere

[leemajors]

That was pretty good. Barely recognized Anna Torv

[spurraider21]

one thing i actually didnt like is when Joel attacked that FEDRA officer, he got the flashback to sarah getting shot. way too early to go there with Ellie. he doesnt really give a shit about her yet

[Xevious]

one thing i actually didnt like is when Joel attacked that FEDRA officer, he got the flashback to sarah getting shot. way too early to go there with Ellie. he doesnt really give a shit about her yet
I know what Craig Mazin said during the inside the episode thing... but I didn't see that as having much to do with Ellie in particular when I was watching the episode. It could have been anyone he was there with. Joel just had a severe PTSD attack because he was in a similar situation and snapped.

[spurraider21]

I know what Craig Mazin said during the inside the episode thing... but I didn't see that as having much to do with Ellie in particular when I was watching the episode. It could have been anyone he was there with. Joel just had a severe PTSD attack because he was in a similar situation and snapped.
that could track. more him being angry at a soldier than protective over the girl.

[baseline bum]

nm

[illusioNtEk]

Fuckkng love Pedro, but this show is not for him.... they not using him correctly

[baseline bum]

God damn, now makes me want to buy the remake of Part 1. Excellent first episode.

[Robz4000]

Was pleased myself tbh.

[lefty20]

Finally got around to watching the premiere, pretty good stuff.

[Xevious]

that could track. more him being angry at a soldier than protective over the girl.
I listened to the podcast and Troy, Neil, and Craig took this even further. They're really leaning on the fact that Joel is fucked up. In the video game, Joel is obviously the muscle and Tess is the brains of their smuggling outfit. While the same is true of the show, Tess likely is the only person that can keep him in check. When she's telling him to "take a breath" in the apartment scene, it's like she's talking to a child about to have a temper tantrum. Then when he has a PTSD attack and pummels the guard at the end, he has this realization afterwards like he just fucked up again, but he's surprised to see that Ellie kind of liked it.

[baseline bum]

I shouldn't have started watching this show until the season was done, god I hate waiting a week between episodes.

[spurraider21]

episode started pretty slow, but picked up very well

the last scene with tess seemed unnecessarily disturbing

[Tyronn Lue]

episode started pretty slow, but picked up very well

the last scene with tess seemed unnecessarily disturbing
Same. No secondaries from the grenades.

[Joseph Kony]

So far so good. most of the changes i have been fine with but i will say i really didn't like the change in the last ep to Tess's story. the whole tendril in the mouth thing was weird. her going out like a hoss against the Boston FEDRA pursuers was better but I guess they wanted to cut out the entire escape from the capitol building and figured just making her blow up infected would be the easiest way. but still, I liked her ending in the game way more than how they approached it in the show. minor gripe though

i will say that i wish they had not changed the lore from spores to tendrils though. The spore dynamic of the infection made way more sense than the tendril thing

[spurraider21]

So far so good. most of the changes i have been fine with but i will say i really didn't like the change in the last ep to Tess's story. the whole tendril in the mouth thing was weird. her going out like a hoss against the Boston FEDRA pursuers was better but I guess they wanted to cut out the entire escape from the capitol building and figured just making her blow up infected would be the easiest way. but still, I liked her ending in the game way more than how they approached it in the show. minor gripe though

i will say that i wish they had not changed the lore from spores to tendrils though. The spore dynamic of the infection made way more sense than the tendril thing
spores would have been annoying... to have characters in goofy looking gas masks for long stretches at a time. tendrils also make sense because it would show exactly why a bite would transmit the disease. as opposed to it being from what... saliva of the runners?

tess's ending was fine. either way, she sacrificed herself to buy them more time. the way the zombie interacted with her was just unnecessarily uncomfortable. like, what was the point of that? either it knew she was infected (which is why they werent going all feral on her) in which case why do the tendril thing. or if it didnt think she was sick and it was trying to infect her, that was a bizarre way of going about it.

it did serve the purpose that she basically had to endure it, not lash out or panic, because she had to stall and stay calm while she tried to get the lighter to work, and reacting different would have jeopardized that. but the really stupid thing was that she didnt just use one of the dozens of grenades that she threw on the floor rather than fiddling with a damn lighter

[spurraider21]

the thing the show probably does best is the set design. the greenery everywhere. the collapsed buildings. very faithful to the game, but also looks damn good live-action

[Xevious]

I agree the "kiss" thing was weird and I really haven't heard a plausible explanation. But other than that, I've liked the changes to the infection. The spores are used to create tension during some parts of the games, but would make little sense in a live action series. And I also agree with the change at the end from Fedra to the infected. Why would Fedra pursue the Fireflies so far away from the QZ? And Tess, while sacrificing herself to slow them down, only kills like two guys before they drop her. The explosion here allows a clean getaway.

I imagine they'll make other similar changes as it goes on. There's certain enemy encounters in the game (like the bandits at the dam or the ranch) that are mostly there just so the player has something to do other than watch a string of cut scenes.

In any case, it was a good episode but I was kind of going in expecting this to be one of my least favorite. The Boston section of the game up until Bill's town is probably my least favorite section.

[spurraider21]

I agree the "kiss" thing was weird and I really haven't heard a plausible explanation. But other than that, I've liked the changes to the infection. The spores are used to create tension during some parts of the games, but would make little sense in a live action series. And I also agree with the change at the end from Fedra to the infected. Why would Fedra pursue the Fireflies so far away from the QZ? And Tess, while sacrificing herself to slow them down, only kills like two guys before they drop her. The explosion here allows a clean getaway.

I imagine they'll make other similar changes as it goes on. There's certain enemy encounters in the game (like the bandits at the dam or the ranch) that are mostly there just so the player has something to do other than watch a string of cut scenes.

In any case, it was a good episode but I was kind of going in expecting this to be one of my least favorite. The Boston section of the game up until Bill's town is probably my least favorite section.
i liked the gag of ellie not being able to swim only to reveal the water was knee deep :lol

[Ef-man]

i liked the gag of ellie not being able to swim only to reveal the water was knee deep :lol

Why is ellie so obnoxious? Is she an expendable character as I am ready to see her get eaten for her stupid actions.

[baseline bum]

Why is ellie so obnoxious? Is she an expendable character as I am ready to see her get eaten for her stupid actions.

She gets beat to death with a golf club pretty early in the game so yeah.

[Leetonidas]

Why is ellie so obnoxious? Is she an expendable character as I am ready to see her get eaten for her stupid actions.

because she's a 14 year old teenager girl

[Ef-man]

She gets beat to death with a golf club pretty early in the game so yeah.
If she sticks around, she better get an epic attitude adjustment as I can't stand her.



because she's a 14 year old teenager girl

Just a couple of vials of her blood and tissue samples would be safer transport than carry that shit head around.

[baseline bum]

If she sticks around, she better get an epic attitude adjustment as I can't stand her.


I mean she's fucking 14 in a destroyed world where you have to be like that to survive. If you don't like her character you might as well just quit watching the show. Are you mad she stabbed the security guy? She was about two seconds from taking a bullet to her head if she didn't since she failed the infection test.

[Leetonidas]

If she sticks around, she better get an epic attitude adjustment as I can't stand her.




Just a couple of vials of her blood and tissue samples would be safer transport than carry that shit head around.

Eh you'll see. They need more than her blood

[Ef-man]

I mean she's fucking 14 in a destroyed world where you have to be like that to survive. If you don't like her character you might as well just quit watching the show. Are you mad she stabbed the security guy? She was about two seconds from taking a bullet to her head if she didn't since she failed the infection test.

Not mad at her, just don’t like her character. Reminds of Dakota Fanning’s character in War of Worlds with Tom Cruise. I would have abandoned her and her brother after one hour of their shit.

[Xevious]

Not mad at her, just don’t like her character. Reminds of Dakota Fanning’s character in War of Worlds with Tom Cruise. I would have abandoned her and her brother after one hour of their shit.
I've almost abandoned my own kids on multiple occasions. But without spoiling anything, she goes through a lot of shit over the course of both games and changes a lot.

[Ef-man]

I've almost abandoned my own kids on multiple occasions. But without spoiling anything, she goes through a lot of shit over the course of both games and changes a lot.

:lol Thanks!

In shows and movies, there are always expendable characters (like the red shirt crewmen on Star Trek) whose sole purpose is to serve as a warning to others or for comedic effect. I would have cheered for her gruesome demise (like the guy whose intestines are used as a rope to get to a lower floor in the movie Machete).

[BD24]

Episode 2 was solid. Seems like we will get a time jump going into episode 3. Also excited they have Nick offerman coming on

[Arcadian]

I don't like it that much. It's one of the better video game adaptations, but that's a low bar.

Black Summer is still the best zombie series IMO. It's the most brutal and realistic depiction of a collapsing society. One thing I don't like about most zombie shows is, there's generally a group of characters who you know in advance are going to survive to the end and be the heroes because they're the "stars of the show." In Black Summer, everyone is fair game, anyone can die, and you don't know what the fuck is gonna happen next. The acting and cinematography are top tier. Every character is flawed, nobody is a perfect hero, but you can feel empathy for all of their various circumstances and how they cross paths.

[leemajors]

Based off 2 eps?

[baseline bum]

I don't like it that much. It's one of the better video game adaptations, but that's a low bar.

Black Summer is still the best zombie series IMO. It's the most brutal and realistic depiction of a collapsing society. One thing I don't like about most zombie shows is, there's generally a group of characters who you know in advance are going to survive to the end and be the heroes because they're the "stars of the show." In Black Summer, everyone is fair game, anyone can die, and you don't know what the fuck is gonna happen next. The acting and cinematography are top tier. Every character is flawed, nobody is a perfect hero, but you can feel empathy for all of their various circumstances and how they cross paths.

So you haven't played the second game?

[Joseph Kony]

I don't like it that much. It's one of the better video game adaptations, but that's a low bar.

Black Summer is still the best zombie series IMO. It's the most brutal and realistic depiction of a collapsing society. One thing I don't like about most zombie shows is, there's generally a group of characters who you know in advance are going to survive to the end and be the heroes because they're the "stars of the show." In Black Summer, everyone is fair game, anyone can die, and you don't know what the fuck is gonna happen next. The acting and cinematography are top tier. Every character is flawed, nobody is a perfect hero, but you can feel empathy for all of their various circumstances and how they cross paths.

:lol Black Summer

The first two episodes of LoU completely blow that shit out of the water. your last sentence is pretty much describing the LoU games too

[Joseph Kony]

Episode 2 was solid. Seems like we will get a time jump going into episode 3. Also excited they have Nick offerman coming on

cant be that much of a time jump I hope, the entire first game takes place over like 10 months

[Xevious]

Yeah, just enough time to walk to Bill's Town. Speaking of which, I don't remember if they ever said what that is based on. Just some random small town that neighbors Boston?

[BD24]

Yeah, just enough time to walk to Bill's Town. Speaking of which, I don't remember if they ever said what that is based on. Just some random small town that neighbors Boston?
I don’t think they ever specifically say what town it’s based on or anything like that

[spurraider21]

when you guys same time jump, would that include like, a few days of travel? i never got the sense that bill was crazy far from boston. its not like they got there via car or horseback

[Xevious]

when you guys same time jump, would that include like, a few days of travel? i never got the sense that bill was crazy far from boston. its not like they got there via car or horseback
I got the sense that they got there that afternoon. Maybe a day or two at most. Not sure why time jump was even mentioned.

I do think that the cold openers are going to continue to be flashbacks though. That's probably how we're going to get Bill's backstory, the Left Behind content, etc. That format would also work for the seasons covering the second game as there are already a lot of flashbacks there.

[Arcadian]

So you haven't played the second game?

I'm talking about the show, not the games. The games are amazing in ways a show never could be (I liked Part 2 more than most people), and the HBO series certainly isn't. It feels like exactly what it is, an adaptation of another medium. It's fine, probably as good as it can be, but it'll always feel like a cheap knockoff of the game, because it is.

[Arcadian]

:lol Black Summer

The first two episodes of LoU completely blow that shit out of the water. your last sentence is pretty much describing the LoU games too

Nah. Black Summer is awesome for so many reasons, but another one is the chapter structure and episodic pacing. I like how the episodes are short, maybe 30-40 minutes, but so much happens in every episode because there are multiple quick-hitting chapters in each episode. Each chapter cuts between independently unfolding events in separate character arcs, and eventually they all intersect when the characters cross paths in different ways. And the whole thing just feels darker and more hopeless than even LoU. I don't know, just the overall style of Black Summer is fantastic.

[spurraider21]

I don't like it that much. It's one of the better video game adaptations, but that's a low bar.

Black Summer is still the best zombie series IMO. It's the most brutal and realistic depiction of a collapsing society. One thing I don't like about most zombie shows is, there's generally a group of characters who you know in advance are going to survive to the end and be the heroes because they're the "stars of the show." In Black Summer, everyone is fair game, anyone can die, and you don't know what the fuck is gonna happen next. The acting and cinematography are top tier. Every character is flawed, nobody is a perfect hero, but you can feel empathy for all of their various circumstances and how they cross paths.
i dont understand this take at all. even if you dont consider the games... a first time watcher of this wouldnt come away with the impression that nobody important can die and everyone will be the hero. in the opening scenes of the show the guy's daughter is killed right in front of him. in the 2nd episode Tess, seen as one of the protagonists to this point, dies.

obviously some of the characters are going to survive. but thats not unique to TLOU. there are main characters in black summer who havent died in 2 seasons either

[Arcadian]

i dont understand this take at all. even if you dont consider the games... a first time watcher of this wouldnt come away with the impression that nobody important can die and everyone will be the hero. in the opening scenes of the show the guy's daughter is killed right in front of him. in the 2nd episode Tess, seen as one of the protagonists to this point, dies.

obviously some of the characters are going to survive. but thats not unique to TLOU. there are main characters in black summer who havent died in 2 seasons either

Yeah that's true. It's more just the general feeling of hopelessness I guess. Black Summer feels darker and more tense to me. I like the way it's shot, the character interactions, everything.

When I think about it, my favorite individual movie about a zombie apocalypse is 28 Days Later, and Black Summer reminds me of the style of 28DL.

[baseline bum]

I'm talking about the show, not the games. The games are amazing in ways a show never could be (I liked Part 2 more than most people), and the HBO series certainly isn't. It feels like exactly what it is, an adaptation of another medium. It's fine, probably as good as it can be, but it'll always feel like a cheap knockoff of the game, because it is.

OK but my issue was with you saying a group of characters who you know in advance are going to survive to the end and be the heroes because they're the "stars of the show.", which is pretty clearly violated in the second game. And yeah I liked the second game even more than the first.

[Arcadian]

OK but my issue was with you saying a group of characters who you know in advance are going to survive to the end and be the heroes because they're the "stars of the show.", which is pretty clearly violated in the second game. And yeah I liked the second game even more than the first.

You're right. I was thinking about Part 1 in isolation, since I assume that's what the show is.

There's probably a cognitive bias from playing the game first, because now everything that happens in the show is just mimicking what I already experienced. That's why I think adaptations just can't be better than content made for cinema, because they'll always have that problem. When I see the actor playing Joel, I just see a guy trying to be like Joel but not quite living up to it. It's not his fault, but he just won't ever be as good as the original Joel. He doesn't quite have the same southern Texan vibe, in this case.

[spurraider21]

You're right. I was thinking about Part 1 in isolation, since I assume that's what the show is.

There's probably a cognitive bias from playing the game first, because now everything that happens in the show is just mimicking what I already experienced. That's why I think adaptations just can't be better than content made for cinema, because they'll always have that problem. When I see the actor playing Joel, I just see a guy trying to be like Joel but not quite living up to it. It's not his fault, but he just won't ever be as good as the original Joel. He doesn't quite have the same southern Texan vibe, in this case.
pedro pascal was raised in texas

obviously as gamers who have an affinity for the game, there will always be nostalgia and preferring the original in some ways. but the purpose of the adaptation is in part to cater to the gamers, but also to expand the IP to a different audience. ie guy tries convincing his gf/wife that this game has a great story, but every time you try to get them to watch its just a 15 minute stealth combat sequence. now they can enjoy the same thing you did without having to be a gamer

[Xevious]

We knew it would be, but the show has officially been renewed for a second season.

[spurraider21]

We knew it would be, but the show has officially been renewed for a second season.
now i gotta make sure i play the second game before that season :lol

[Joseph Kony]

Nice. LoU2 is my favorite game of all time so I hope they do it real justice

I wonder if season 2 will be the 2nd game though. There is a time jump between the game of 5 years and there are plenty of flashbacks throughout the game. they could probably write a season about stuff happening between 1 and 2

[Joseph Kony]

if they do S2 surrounding the events of the 2nd game though, shits gonna be brutal as hell. Seraphite territory will have some nice gore

[baseline bum]

now i gotta make sure i play the second game before that season :lol

It's even better than the first IMO. Plus it triggers the incels.

[baseline bum]

Nice. LoU2 is my favorite game of all time so I hope they do it real justice

I wonder if season 2 will be the 2nd game though. There is a time jump between the game of 5 years and there are plenty of flashbacks throughout the game. they could probably write a season about stuff happening between 1 and 2

They said they're only going to do stuff that was in the games. I was going to say they'd probably need to wait a couple of years for the actress playing Ellie to age a bit for the second season, but she's 19 already so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Xevious]

Nice. LoU2 is my favorite game of all time so I hope they do it real justice

I wonder if season 2 will be the 2nd game though. There is a time jump between the game of 5 years and there are plenty of flashbacks throughout the game. they could probably write a season about stuff happening between 1 and 2
They've already said that Part 2 will likely be covered in seasons 2 and 3. Craig Mazin doesn't want to cover the five year gap or write new material past Part 2. He wants to stick to the games. Though with Neil right there, that could always change. I assume Part 3 will happen, just not in that time frame.

[Xevious]

now i gotta make sure i play the second game before that season :lol
They've (understandably) toned down the violence in the TV show, but they better ramp it back up for the next seasons. Part of what makes Part 2 so good is how fucking brutal Ellie becomes, and the mental toll it takes on her.

[baseline bum]

They've already said that Part 2 will likely be covered in seasons 2 and 3. Craig Mazin doesn't want to cover the five year gap or write new material past Part 2. He wants to stick to the games. Though with Neil right there, that could always change. I assume Part 3 will happen, just not in that time frame.

Druckmann was making it sound like 3 only happens if they can come with as good a story as the first two. I'd be fine with the series ending where 2 finished if they can't come up with the story for another 9.5/10 game like the first two were.

[Joseph Kony]

They've already said that Part 2 will likely be covered in seasons 2 and 3. Craig Mazin doesn't want to cover the five year gap or write new material past Part 2. He wants to stick to the games. Though with Neil right there, that could always change. I assume Part 3 will happen, just not in that time frame.

Part 2 will cover s2 and 3 huh? interesting. i wonder how they will split that up. I always felt Santa Barbara could have been longer and Ellie could have gone through way more shit with the Rattlers because that faction's backstory wasnt explained much. maybe we'll get to see more of what Abby/Lev had to endure before Ellie arrives

Just thinking about how brutal it's going to be for people who never played the game. The invasion of the island...that's gonna be a real sight to behold on screen

[Joseph Kony]

Druckmann was making it sound like 3 only happens if they can come with as good a story as the first two. I'd be fine with the series ending where 2 finished if they can't come up with the story for another 9.5/10 game like the first two were.

ND's story telling is really their strong point so they could make part 3 about an entirely different set of characters in another part of the world and it would probably be 9.5 game

[Xevious]

Druckmann was making it sound like 3 only happens if they can come with as good a story as the first two. I'd be fine with the series ending where 2 finished if they can't come up with the story for another 9.5/10 game like the first two were.
He's talking out of his ass. I don't see any way they don't release a third game (especially with the success of the show now). With Abby presumably rejoined with the Fireflies and Ellie in limbo, there's a lot of story left to tell there.

[Ef-man]

RIP

Actress Annie Wersching, who played Tess in ‘The Last of Us’ dies of cancer at age 45.

In the 2013 video game release of The Last of Us, she played the role of Tess. That role is played by Anna Torv in the show, but she will always be remembered as one of the alum. Diagnosed with cancer in 2020, she acted through it with roles as the very impressive Rosalind Dyer in The Rookie and Borg Queen in Star Trek: Picard.

https://www.msn.com/Annie-wersching-who-played-tess-in-the-last-of-us-dies-of-cancer (https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/actress-annie-wersching-who-played-tess-in-the-last-of-us-dies-of-cancer-at-age-45)

[Leetonidas]

That was the supposed best episode of the season? Kinda concerning

[baseline bum]

That was the supposed best episode of the season? Kinda concerning

Thought it was pretty amazing myself.

[Xevious]

The one disappointing part for me is that we never got to see Bill and Ellie interact. We essentially spent an entire episode on people that passively helped Joel and Ellie. I could see viewers that have no knowledge of the game being confused as to why they dedicated so much time on something that had very little to do with their journey.

[baseline bum]

The one disappointing part for me is that we never got to see Bill and Ellie interact. We essentially spent an entire episode on people that passively helped Joel and Ellie. I could see viewers that have no knowledge of the game being confused as to why they dedicated so much time on something that had very little to do with their journey.

I miss this scene


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDsfznCiXQ0

[Leetonidas]

Thought it was pretty amazing myself.

Sure but it had really nothing to do with the story other than fleshing out Bill and Frank's love story. Joel/Ellie were in it for like 5 mins and they completely changed Franks wanting to leave because Bill is a miserable asshole into a happy love story. One reason I enjoyed LoU so much is because everything was so bleak and depressing. Not sure I liked how they dressed this part up

[spurraider21]

Sure but it had really nothing to do with the story other than fleshing out Bill and Frank's love story. Joel/Ellie were in it for like 5 mins and they completely changed Franks wanting to leave because Bill is a miserable asshole into a happy love story. One reason I enjoyed LoU so much is because everything was so bleak and depressing. Not sure I liked how they dressed this part up
yeah serious i wish it was more bleak and depressing. instead of this ridiculously happy and hopeful story of a sick partner saying they're killing themselves today and the other healthy one also killing himself

while i liked having joel/bill/ellie interact in the game, i actually think this version was more powerful. aside from the weak plot point of bill "owing joel some favors" that are never explained and just left at that, i like that the whole world doesnt revolve around joel/ellie. the show is demonstrating how this event is uniquely painful and difficult for all individuals.

it was frustrating that the plot barely moved forward, but tbh i like the depth they gave

[spurraider21]

its clear the show isnt trying to turn this into a resident evil movie where joel/ellie just slaughter their way through massive hoardes of zombies or just have every episode an action/stealth sequence. having them rampage through the school to get a car battery, get back to the car, and then just drive away... all because bill "owes joel some favors" doesnt tell much story at all anyway. bill serves no real plot significance to TLOU aside from knowing where to find a battery (and then the battery not being there anyway). at least for the purpose of the show they gave a fleshed version of it

i also dont think the show wanted the whole "lol i found a gay magazine" bit as some corny gamergate reveal

[Leetonidas]

Them killing themselves aside their whole ep was about their love and how happiness could be found even in the apocalypse. Yeah it was a sad ending but they lived happily together that entire time and it was a massive departure from the implied relationship of bill and frank in the game. I know you've played it. This is sunshine and rainbows when it comes to Bills character versus the miserable paranoid dickhead he was in the game and it was just to appease a certain audience

It gave depth to a part that didn't really need it. I mean great for everyone that identified with it and enjoyed it. Not taking anything away from them but I didn't like how they approached this ep and if a post apocalyptic gay love story is the high point of the season I am somewhat concerned about the rest of it

[spurraider21]

the purpose of the TV show isn't just to repeat cutscenes for players who loved the game, its also to expand the IP to a broader audience. my wife hates games but she's loving the show

[Leetonidas]

And yeah two lovebirds living out the apocalypse together and one dying of old age / natural causes and the other choosing to go out with him and how it was presented on screen was definitely not bleak and depressing at all. Imo

[Leetonidas]

the purpose of the TV show isn't just to repeat cutscenes for players who loved the game, its also to expand the IP to a broader audience. my wife hates games but she's loving the show

When did I say they needed to repeat cutscenes? There were million different ways they could have approached this part of the game and the way they chose I didn't like. I don't need you to tell me why my opinion is incorrect or invalid

And my dislike of this ep has nothing to do with them being gay. Idc about that. I care about the narrative change to bills character

[spurraider21]

Them killing themselves aside their whole ep was about their love and how happiness could be found even in the apocalypse. Yeah it was a sad ending but they lived happily together that entire time and it was a massive departure from the implied relationship of bill and frank in the game. I know you've played it. This is sunshine and rainbows when it comes to Bills character versus the miserable paranoid dickhead he was in the game and it was just to appease a certain audience

It gave depth to a part that didn't really need it. I mean great for everyone that identified with it and enjoyed it. Not taking anything away from them but I didn't like how they approached this ep and if a post apocalyptic gay love story is the high point of the season I am somewhat concerned about the rest of it
bill was still mostly miserable. he clearly didnt care for frank's intention of cleaning up the town. he didnt want to make friends. even when frank/tess were having a grand old time there was the tense conversation between him and joel. bill was still a miserable shit. he just had a soft spot for frank

[Leetonidas]

Yeah i didnt get that impression at all. He just seemed a little surly. They threw in one instance of him not wanting to get supplies for Frank to clean and then a little tenseness with Joel and thats it. To me they missed the mark on Bills character. aside from his jackboot comment at the beginning and Frank telling him he thought 9/11 was an inside job you didnt even really get a good picture of his anti-government attitudes

plus, he invites the first guy that falls into his trap and feeds him dinner after being in the post-apoc for 4 years? didnt really make sense

[spurraider21]

When did I say they needed to repeat cutscenes? There were million different ways they could have approached this part of the game and the way they chose I didn't like. I don't need you to tell me why my opinion is incorrect or invalid
i mean, we just disagree. i never said your opinion was invalid lol. but obviously if i disagree with your opinion i'm going to think its incorrect. thats just called disagreeing. the reason i said "repeat cutscenes" is because your complaints mostly seemed to be that they deviated from the game (changed from frank wanting to leave... "massive departure from the first game")


And my dislike of this ep has nothing to do with them being gay. Idc about that. I care about the narrative change to bills character
i mean, in the game they were gay too, so them being gay wouldnt necessarily have anything to do with it, nor did i ever imply that your issue with the episode was because of the gay angle. you're the only one who keeps bringing up the gay angle "post apocalyptic gay love story is the high point of the season" comment, etc

[spurraider21]

And yeah two lovebirds living out the apocalypse together and one dying of old age / natural causes and the other choosing to go out with him and how it was presented on screen was definitely not bleak and depressing at all. Imo
my wife was bawling from the moment frank said it was his last day basically until the episode ended

[spurraider21]

Yeah i didnt get that impression at all. He just seemed a little surly. They threw in one instance of him not wanting to get supplies for Frank to clean and then a little tenseness with Joel and thats it. To me they missed the mark on Bills character. aside from his jackboot comment at the beginning and Frank telling him he thought 9/11 was an inside job you didnt even really get a good picture of his anti-government attitudes

plus, he invites the first guy that falls into his trap and feeds him dinner after being in the post-apoc for 4 years? didnt really make sense
i mean, him dodging the evacuation and building his setup, having his panic room beneath the basement (you can hear soldiers saying they're sweeping the basement and they were clearly above him). i think you get a good idea of what kind of guy he is. the rugged appearance as well.

as for why he let Frank in... its also probably the first human he's encountered in years. he confirmed he wasnt infected. and as miserable a shit as bill was, everybody wants some form of companionship. even game Bill had a gay relationship with Frank at some point, it was just off screen. not crazy to me. it was also just supposed to be a single meal. i dont think bill anticipated where things went

[Leetonidas]

i mean, we just disagree. i never said your opinion was invalid lol. but obviously if i disagree with your opinion i'm going to think its incorrect. thats just called disagreeing. the reason i said "repeat cutscenes" is because your complaints mostly seemed to be that they deviated from the game (changed from frank wanting to leave... "massive departure from the first game")


i mean, in the game they were gay too, so them being gay wouldnt necessarily have anything to do with it, nor did i ever imply that your issue with the episode was because of the gay angle. you're the only one who keeps bringing up the gay angle "post apocalyptic gay love story is the high point of the season" comment, etc

i dont care if they deviate from the game, i just wanted the deviations to make sense and be true to the characters as presented in the game. Like i said, they could have approached this ep in any number of ways. They totally softened Bills character and he is almost nothing like his character in the game.

when it comes to live screen adaptations of games i come into it expecting changing to the way the story plays out. What i dont like is when they change a characters personality. Same reason i absolutely despised that Halo show. Narrative changes aside the Jon-117 character was absolutely nothing like his novel/game counterpart

that said I didnt hate or dislike Ep3 or anything, my original point was I kept hearing how Ep3 was going to be the best of the season and i went into it with high expectations which were left unmet with the way it unfolded

[Leetonidas]

my wife was bawling from the moment frank said it was his last day basically until the episode ended

eh, different kind of sad to me. Like, Frank chose his ending and Bill loved him enough to go along with him and Frank loved him enough to be okay with it. it's sad in the sense that people died but touching because two lovers lived their life together and chose to go out together peacefully. to me that is a different kind of bleakness/sadness than Bill finding Frank hanging in a house with a note telling him how much he hated him.

[spurraider21]

i dont care if they deviate from the game, i just wanted the deviations to make sense and be true to the characters as presented in the game. Like i said, they could have approached this ep in any number of ways. They totally softened Bills character and he is almost nothing like his character in the game.

when it comes to live screen adaptations of games i come into it expecting changing to the way the story plays out. What i dont like is when they change a characters personality. Same reason i absolutely despised that Halo show. Narrative changes aside the Jon-117 character was absolutely nothing like his novel/game counterpart

that said I didnt hate or dislike Ep3 or anything, my original point was I kept hearing how Ep3 was going to be the best of the season and i went into it with high expectations which were left unmet with the way it unfolded
i never played nor watched halo so cant comment. i also hadnt heard the stuff about Ep3 being the best or whatever, so i just watched it without that pre-conceived notion. my grip with the episode was that the main plot didnt move at all other than they found a car (and ellie's moment with the one zombie).

personally im fine with how they went about bill. im not sure game bill would have made for a compelling character on TV. i also thought the scene of the shootout was kind of a waste of time. they show bill getting shot and nearly dying, but then cut away to a scene later where bill is totally fine and its frank who is dying. so what was the point of showing bill get shot, especially if the fence was just going to repel all the raiders anyway? seemed like wasted runtime, and they instead could have ended the episode with the car crashing or something

[Leetonidas]

i never played nor watched halo so cant comment. i also hadnt heard the stuff about Ep3 being the best or whatever, so i just watched it without that pre-conceived notion. my grip with the episode was that the main plot didnt move at all other than they found a car (and ellie's moment with the one zombie).

personally im fine with how they went about bill. im not sure game bill would have made for a compelling character on TV. i also thought the scene of the shootout was kind of a waste of time. they show bill getting shot and nearly dying, but then cut away to a scene later where bill is totally fine and its frank who is dying. so what was the point of showing bill get shot, especially if the fence was just going to repel all the raiders anyway? seemed like wasted runtime, and they instead could have ended the episode with the car crashing or something


That was another gripe, I didnt see the point of the Raider sequence either since it seemed to have zero implications on the story or how it played out.

But yeah, I had heard a lot that Ep3 was the best and it would be the emmy episode. and i read that on multiple platforms in more than a couple articles. It wasnt a bad episode and i didnt hate it or anything, but as i said if that was allegedly the best i am now concerned for how the rest of the story is going to play out.

Pittsburg is my favorite part of the game, so i really hope they do the next episode justice

[baseline bum]

This is sunshine and rainbows when it comes to Bills character versus the miserable paranoid dickhead he was in the game and it was just to appease a certain audience


Or maybe it was just a great story. Were you annoyed when the Left Behind DLC came out and was that was happy and trying to appease a certain audience too?

[Leetonidas]

Or maybe it was just a great story. Were you annoyed when the Left Behind DLC came out and was that was happy and trying to appease a certain audience too?
Not at all. And i dont think it was a great story personally. like if they were straight, no one would even care. I'm not qhris or calf tats so save the anti gay rhetoric

didnt see anything "happy" about the left behind DLC either. it was also to provide backstory to certain things ellie references in the game, so it was not to appease a specific audience at all imho

[baseline bum]

Not at all. And i dont think it was a great story personally. like if they were straight, no one would even care. I'm not qhris or calf tats so save the anti gay rhetoric

didnt see anything "happy" about the left behind DLC either. it was also to provide backstory to certain things ellie references in the game, so it was not to appease a specific audience at all imho

'Appease a specific audience' sounds like rhetoric and Ellie's first kiss and first crush was one of the happiest moments of the series of games.

[Leetonidas]

'Appease a specific audience' sounds like rhetoric.

if you interpret it that way, sure. but i remember when LoU2 came out and a certain audience was angry at the portrayal of Lev and didn't like the painting of a trans character in such a negative light regardless of whether or not they saw him as representation in gaming.

Again, this is a series that is near and dear to my heart, so any complaints are about the authenticity of the characters to their origins, IMO. you dont have to agree with them, and i dont really care if you do or dont. but like i said, you can save the anti gay rhetoric, because if that was what i actually cared about my favorite game wouldnt feature a gay lead

[Leetonidas]

sure, that specific scene is happy for her, and then her best friend gets infected and dies shortly thereafter. nothing happy about that :lol

[spurraider21]

sure, that specific scene is happy for her, and then her best friend gets infected and dies shortly thereafter. nothing happy about that :lol
you literally had the opposite point about episode 3

you argued bill/frank had a happy story even though it ends with them both killing themselves :lol

[Leetonidas]

you literally had the opposite point about episode 3

you argued bill/frank had a happy story even though it ends with them both killing themselves :lol

A child getting bit infected and dying suddenly is not the same as an old man living years together happily with his partner having a terminal illness and CHOOSING how to meet their fate with their partner. The entire episode was about their love story and the life they built together.

Whatever man, I'll just keep my opinions to myself

[Adam Lambert]

One thing I don't like about most zombie shows is, there's generally a group of characters who you know in advance are going to survive to the end and be the heroes because they're the "stars of the show." In Black Summer, everyone is fair game, anyone can die, and you don't know what the fuck is gonna happen next. The acting and cinematography are top tier. Every character is flawed, nobody is a perfect hero, but you can feel empathy for all of their various circumstances and how they cross paths.


I've never played the game, but I'm two episodes into TLOU and two people that I thought were going to be primary characters have already died.

[Xevious]

Like I mentioned earlier, I just wish we would've had some type of interaction between the characters. Even if it was completely different from the game - finding Bill after Frank's death and he gifts them the truck and then wastes away in a depressive state... whatever. There's something missing as it is. If you delete the entire flashback sequence, it's just Joel and Ellie conveniently finding a running truck. Not only that... why would tv-show-Tess tell Joel to take Ellie to Bill and Frank's, knowing that Bill is a shut-in and would never let Frank take Ellie anywhere?

All that said, I really liked the episode. Just a few tweaks would've made it gel better with the rest of the series imo.

I'm really happy to see the "He ain't even hurt" scene in next episode's trailer.

[spurraider21]

Like I mentioned earlier, I just wish we would've had some type of interaction between the characters. Even if it was completely different from the game - finding Bill after Frank's death and he gifts them the truck and then wastes away in a depressive state... whatever. There's something missing as it is. If you delete the entire flashback sequence, it's just Joel and Ellie conveniently finding a running truck. Not only that... why would tv-show-Tess tell Joel to take Ellie to Bill and Frank's, knowing that Bill is a shut-in and would never let Frank take Ellie anywhere?

All that said, I really liked the episode. Just a few tweaks would've made it gel better with the rest of the series imo.

I'm really happy to see the "He ain't even hurt" scene in next episode's trailer.
tbh thats pretty strong criticism. my guess is Tess knew that Frank could convince Bill. we already knew frank convinced bill to host joel/tess as guests against bill's wishes

its also not like they had a dozen options and just landed on bill/frank

[Joseph Kony]

I wonder how Frank knew what his terminal illness was with no doctors around and how they knew what pills and the correct dosage to manage the illness as well. I guess we're supposed to just believe they read some books and figured it out?

[baseline bum]

I wonder how Frank knew what his terminal illness was with no doctors around and how they knew what pills and the correct dosage to manage the illness as well. I guess we're supposed to just believe they read some books and figured it out?

Frank seemed pretty competent treating Bill's gunshot; I wonder if that scene was included to hint at him maybe being an EMT or a nurse before the world went to shit.

[Tyronn Lue]

They could have made a series about Frank and Bill, probably would have been interesting.

[spurraider21]

one of my first critiques of Ep 3 was how little the main story progressed. after all that time, the only real end results were that they would up with a car (and talked a little bit, set the 'ground rules', etc).

though i did read somebody's comment that in the game, even after playing through all of Bill's town, going to the school, finding frank, etc... the only way the main story progressed after all that is... you wound up with a car :lol

[Blake]

one of my first critiques of Ep 3 was how little the main story progressed. after all that time, the only real end results were that they would up with a car (and talked a little bit, set the 'ground rules', etc).

though i did read somebody's comment that in the game, even after playing through all of Bill's town, going to the school, finding frank, etc... the only way the main story progressed after all that is... you wound up with a car :lol

Seems that's the SOP for writing a series. Episodes 1, 2 awesome. Middle episodes are usually all fillers with the season finale being awesome

[spurraider21]

Seems that's the SOP for writing a series. Episodes 1, 2 awesome. Middle episodes are usually all fillers with the season finale being awesome
i thought Ep 3 was a great watch tbh. the main plot didnt progress too much, but it told a great self contained story. kinda like pine barrens of sopranos (extremely different in tone, obviously). pin barrens did next to nothing plot wise but was one of the GOAT episodes

[Joseph Kony]

totally forgot about the preview of the next episode at the end of the credits :lol

i'm guessing Melanie Lynskey is going to play the woman that is referenced in the Pittsburgh mission when the enemies are talking about how one survivor gave them a ton of trouble before getting sniped. interested to see how they are going to flesh that out. Hope they keep the Humvee with the corpse hood ornament

[Joseph Kony]

Frank seemed pretty competent treating Bill's gunshot; I wonder if that scene was included to hint at him maybe being an EMT or a nurse before the world went to shit.
possibly. but i know some nurses and EMTs and dont think they would know jackshit about diagnosing someones terminal illness or how to treat it :lol and his competence in treating gunshot wounds may be more of a byproduct of living in the post-apocalypse for a decade. we also dont get a good view other than him digging the bullet out initially since it just flashes forward to Frank in the wheelchair

[Adam Lambert]

Just go ahead and give everyone involved in that episode all of the Emmys.

That was an all-timer, a perfect episode of television that will be talked about for 20 years. Best episode I've seen since the Marcia Clark episode of the OJ series. This show is running circles around everything else in the genre so far.

[Xevious]

I rewatched episode 3 and I liked it a lot better without any preconceived notions about what should be included from the game. It really is a great episode.

[SpursforSix]

Finally caught up. That was a great episode and gives me hope that the rest of the series will be pretty rewarding and not just zombie shit.

[spurraider21]

Finally caught up. That was a great episode and gives me hope that the rest of the series will be pretty rewarding and not just zombie shit.
people seem really mad they're not getting an hour of this once a week :lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwTGlCRy50k

[SpursforSix]

people seem really mad they're not getting an hour of this once a week :lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwTGlCRy50k

I'd be out if it was just zombie shit. That being said, the zombie shit they do is really well done. But so far, the writing and thought that goes behind the story is pretty damn good.
I never played the game so I can't relate from that side of things. But it's been a good watch through three episodes. The girl does get on my nerves a bit but whatever.

[Tyronn Lue]

possibly. but i know some nurses and EMTs and dont think they would know jackshit about diagnosing someones terminal illness or how to treat it :lol and his competence in treating gunshot wounds may be more of a byproduct of living in the post-apocalypse for a decade. we also dont get a good view other than him digging the bullet out initially since it just flashes forward to Frank in the wheelchair
It's possible they were only treating symptoms, not the disease. There are known treatments for symptoms of certain illnesses, plus there are books available. The episode covered a large time span in part of an episode. This is why I say these two's lives pre and post apocalypse would be interesting backstories.

[Xevious]

I felt a little disappointed in episode 5 tbh. Nothing was bad, it was just short compared to the others and a lot of that time was dedicated to new characters I honestly don't care about. I guess we'll see how the next episode plays out.

[spurraider21]

I felt a little disappointed in episode 5 tbh. Nothing was bad, it was just short compared to the others and a lot of that time was dedicated to new characters I honestly don't care about. I guess we'll see how the next episode plays out.
yeah as a viewer and not as someone who has played the game, they kinda rushed us into some position where we're supposed to care about the Two and a Half Men girl and whoever the fuck Henry is. but its pretty clear at this point that much like the game, the actual events of the world are merely vehicles to move joel/ellie's relationship further

[Joseph Kony]

totally forgot about the preview of the next episode at the end of the credits :lol

i'm guessing Melanie Lynskey is going to play the woman that is referenced in the Pittsburgh mission when the enemies are talking about how one survivor gave them a ton of trouble before getting sniped. interested to see how they are going to flesh that out. Hope they keep the Humvee with the corpse hood ornament

man, i was way off. they didnt keep the corpse hood ornament either. ep was kinda meh

[baseline bum]

First episode that pretty meh. Hard to follow up on how great last week was.

[spurraider21]

next episode comes out early on friday. they didnt want to compete with the superbowl

[SpursforSix]

I felt a little disappointed in episode 5 tbh. Nothing was bad, it was just short compared to the others and a lot of that time was dedicated to new characters I honestly don't care about. I guess we'll see how the next episode plays out.

I was totally bored with this one. And why didn't they take more firepower from Bill and Frank's. He should be walking around with something better than a hunting rifle. And why did he leave the hunting rifle anyway?

[spurraider21]

I was totally bored with this one. And why didn't they take more firepower from Bill and Frank's. He should be walking around with something better than a hunting rifle. And why did he leave the hunting rifle anyway?
presumably they took more stuff and it was in the bed of the pickup, but they didnt exactly have time to unpack

[SpursforSix]

presumably they took more stuff and it was in the bed of the pickup, but they didnt exactly have time to unpack

Yeah...I gave that consideration. But they had plenty of time for him to pick a different gun. He should have left their neighborhood with something different as his main weapon.
And I still don't understand why he left it in the store. Not a huge deal. I still like the story.

[spurraider21]

Yeah...I gave that consideration. But they had plenty of time for him to pick a different gun. He should have left their neighborhood with something different as his main weapon.
And I still don't understand why he left it in the store. Not a huge deal. I still like the story.
but to your point there was a scene in episode 3 where ellie was telling joel to take more guns since they are all just lying around or up on a wall, and he said no for some reason iirc

[SpursforSix]

but to your point there was a scene in episode 3 where ellie was telling joel to take more guns since they are all just lying around or up on a wall, and he said no for some reason iirc

I think he was saying no to her having a gun. In any event, they should have loaded up and he should have been walking around with something more effective than what he had. It looked like Bill and Frank had any weapon you could want and still Joel is carrying around a hunting rifle. It just doesn't make much sense. Not that it takes away much from the show but it's just something that stands out to me.

[Xevious]

I was totally bored with this one. And why didn't they take more firepower from Bill and Frank's. He should be walking around with something better than a hunting rifle. And why did he leave the hunting rifle anyway?
Yeah that is a good question. I can only assume they had more guns in the truck, but left it all there when they ran.

While I enjoyed most of the scenes with Joel and Ellie, I really didn't care for anything else. We already have David coming up, not even to mention the final act... I don't see why we had to dedicate screentime to new villains. In this case, the hunters in the game were good enough. What Joel and Ellie learn about them in their travels was all the information the audience needed - they overthrew Fedra at the QZ and now are ambushing/robbing from trespassers in order to survive.

[Leetonidas]

Yeah that is a good question. I can only assume they had more guns in the truck, but left it all there when they ran.

While I enjoyed most of the scenes with Joel and Ellie, I really didn't care for anything else. We already have David coming up, not even to mention the final act... I don't see why we had to dedicate screentime to new villains. In this case, the hunters in the game were good enough. What Joel and Ellie learn about them in their travels was all the information the audience needed - they overthrew Fedra at the QZ and now are ambushing/robbing from trespassers in order to survive.

Hard agree. Don't see the point of adding this whole backstory and it seems kinda pointless. I guess they want us to feel worse for Henry and Sam? Idk, i always disliked Henry in the game

[spurraider21]

co-signed re: not really needing to get to know the hunters on a personal level

[leemajors]

insta post wouldn't work nm

[Monostradamus]

2 episodes in and it’s pretty good overall. But there’s something odd about the way this show is shot and lit that is off-putting. It gives it the feel of actors on a soundstage, rather than an immersive world. It just doesn’t feel quite real, and kinda looks like an hour long show on ABC, not a prestige HBO drama. It felt like that ever since they released that first image of Pedro & Ellie looking at the plane wreck.

[Xevious]

Aging down Sam and making him deaf actually worked well. I liked him a lot better than I did in the game. He came off as a mopey fuck-up in the game, where as here he required the help of his brother a lot more because of his disability. And his relationship with Ellie was a lot stronger and more believable. Having Sam tell her about the bite and what followed were done really well.

I still stand by my last point that seeing the hunters' backstory was 100% unnecessary and just took time away from the four people we're supposed to care about in this episode. The storyline didn't need to be as complicated as they made it.

[spurraider21]

Aging down Sam and making him deaf actually worked well. I liked him a lot better than I did in the game. He came off as a mopey fuck-up in the game, where as here he required the help of his brother a lot more because of his disability. And his relationship with Ellie was a lot stronger and more believable. Having Sam tell her about the bite and what followed were done really well.

I still stand by my last point that seeing the hunters' backstory was 100% unnecessary and just took time away from the four people we're supposed to care about in this episode. The storyline didn't need to be as complicated as they made it.
yeah i feel that way too. guess they just really wanted to give henry more of a backstory than "hey i got trapped here just like you"... and i think it worked in that they gave an effective parallel story to joel.

henry killed that great leader dude which had the potential to end the resistance movement and cause even more fedra harm, and he did it all to save his brother. even kathleen was saying that one life isn't worth all of this. its the same dilemma joel faces with ellie.

but i couldnt be bothered to care about kathleen or her bearded companion (who apparently was the voice actor for Tommy in the game)

[spurraider21]

the bloater also felt unnecessary and imo felt out of place. i think the swarm of infected already did what it was supposed to do by derailing fedra's pursuit and causing our people to further flee. what did the bloater accomplish that the runners/clickers didnt other than being a spectacle to watch?

i also thought they were just going to forego the bloaters altogether which would have been fine. the show is meant to appeal to a broader audience than the games, and the whole cordyceps thing is based on a semblance of believability. on that front, the bloater kind of jumps the shark a bit. for me, it was definitely fun to watch and the visuals were great. i just dno how well it will sit with non gamers

[Xevious]

the bloater also felt unnecessary and imo felt out of place. i think the swarm of infected already did what it was supposed to do by derailing fedra's pursuit and causing our people to further flee. what did the bloater accomplish that the runners/clickers didnt other than being a spectacle to watch?

i also thought they were just going to forego the bloaters altogether which would have been fine. the show is meant to appeal to a broader audience than the games, and the whole cordyceps thing is based on a semblance of believability. on that front, the bloater kind of jumps the shark a bit. for me, it was definitely fun to watch and the visuals were great. i just dno how well it will sit with non gamers
Apparently there was a discussion/debate about whether they should do the bloaters or not, so I'm assuming this will be the only time one shows up this season. Personally I don't have a problem with it. It's a visual way of differentiating how long somebody has been infected. I always thought that the bloaters and maybe even the shamblers in Part 2 were the ones that've been infected for around 20 years.

The infected have shown up so infrequently here that I hope they didn't just introduce that whole tendril gimmick in episode 2 and then never mention it again.

[Monostradamus]

Episode 3 was fantastic. Nick Offerman’s best dramatic work aside from Devs. Only gripe is that it was a little cliche to use “On The Nature Of Daylight” but it’s still a great song. Lighting is still weird, but it worked better for this episode. Pedro and Ellie finally showed a little on-screen chemistry at the end, so that’s promising.

[Adam Lambert]

the bloater also felt unnecessary and imo felt out of place. i think the swarm of infected already did what it was supposed to do by derailing fedra's pursuit and causing our people to further flee. what did the bloater accomplish that the runners/clickers didnt other than being a spectacle to watch?

i also thought they were just going to forego the bloaters altogether which would have been fine. the show is meant to appeal to a broader audience than the games, and the whole cordyceps thing is based on a semblance of believability. on that front, the bloater kind of jumps the shark a bit. for me, it was definitely fun to watch and the visuals were great. i just dno how well it will sit with non gamers

Yeah as someone who didn't play the games, that's really the first scene where it looked like a show that was based on a video game and felt like fan service. Didn't bother me too much though.

[baseline bum]

the bloater also felt unnecessary and imo felt out of place. i think the swarm of infected already did what it was supposed to do by derailing fedra's pursuit and causing our people to further flee. what did the bloater accomplish that the runners/clickers didnt other than being a spectacle to watch?

i also thought they were just going to forego the bloaters altogether which would have been fine. the show is meant to appeal to a broader audience than the games, and the whole cordyceps thing is based on a semblance of believability. on that front, the bloater kind of jumps the shark a bit. for me, it was definitely fun to watch and the visuals were great. i just dno how well it will sit with non gamers

You knew it was coming after you saw the ground nearly collapse in that one building from one of the infected underground.

[baseline bum]

That shit hits you in the feels when Ellie writes "I'm sorry" on top of Sam's grave after her blood couldn't save him.

[baseline bum]

Also next episode is this Friday. Guess they're moving to Friday from now on?

[Xevious]

That shit hits you in the feels when Ellie writes "I'm sorry" on top of Sam's grave after her blood couldn't save him.
They did a fantastic job with the Ellie and Sam friendship for the limited time they had.

[BD24]

Also next episode is this Friday. Guess they're moving to Friday from now on?
I didn’t notice that. That’s an odd change

[SpursforSix]

Also next episode is this Friday. Guess they're moving to Friday from now on?

I think it was because of the Super Bowl.

[spurraider21]

Also next episode is this Friday. Guess they're moving to Friday from now on?
no that was just last week cause of the superbowl. im not seeing anything that shows this week's episode coming out on friday. everywhere says sunday

[baseline bum]

no that was just last week cause of the superbowl. im not seeing anything that shows this week's episode coming out on friday. everywhere says sunday

Damn thought I saw it in the ad for this week's episode but nope, watched it again and not there and you're right.

[SpursforSix]

Good episode but somehow he has his hunting rifle he left behind in Episode 4 I think.

[Leetonidas]

They made Maria black. Reeeeee wokeness reeeeeee

[spurraider21]

i liked the episode... but man, did they really burn the whole "you better point at the same spot on the map" shtick for that scene? or are they just showing this as a tactic of his and will be a callback later

[SpursforSix]

i liked the episode... but man, did they really burn the whole "you better point at the same spot on the map" shtick for that scene? or are they just showing this as a tactic of his and will be a callback later

Well, they got to the right spot on the map being the college. And it looked like the people had bailed for some reason. I think it was just for comedy relief. I didn't really mind it.
Why the fuck does Joel not have a beard by this point? Is he shaving every week?

[spurraider21]

Well, they got to the right spot on the map being the college. And it looked like the people had bailed for some reason. I think it was just for comedy relief. I didn't really mind it.
Why the fuck does Joel not have a beard by this point? Is he shaving every week?
no, i get why he did it. but that "you better point at the same spot" shtick was used... quite differently in the game.

[Joseph Kony]

they wasted too much time trying to make a backstory for the Hunters in KC and ended up rushing this episode imo. don't like the whole emo Joel thing they're doing either

[SpursforSix]

no, i get why he did it. but that "you better point at the same spot" shtick was used... quite differently in the game.

Ah...I never played the game so that reference is lost on me.

[spurraider21]

they wasted too much time trying to make a backstory for the Hunters in KC and ended up rushing this episode imo. don't like the whole emo Joel thing they're doing either
him going through shit gives a lot more justification to ask tommy to take over for him. one of the things that always felt a little out of place in the game, how eager he was to just ask tommy to take over when he seemed completely capable

but i agree the KC backstory took a lot of time and didnt have much payoff. no matter what they did, i couldnt seem to care at all for kathleen or her crew. 90% of her scenes it seemed like she was never in synch with that crew, she was always pushing them to expend resources they didnt want to in order to hunt down henry to satisfy her personal beef. seemed like they all thought she was over the edge. and then when she outright told bearded assistant guy that she doesnt give a fuck, she just wants to capture henry, he kinda just said "we're all with you." so... ok? all those scenes when people were seemingly doubting her just didnt matter?

i do think henry/sam were well done, and they did need to give some sort of background about KC to explain why Henry was on the run or hiding, as opposed to just randomly being another refugee trying to escape from there. he also had to go through the moral exercise of sabotaging a resistance that he believed in (and backstabbing a leader that he basically worshipped) just to give medication to his little brother... and all that ending with him having to kill said brother. its just that kathleen and her people were never convincing characters

[SpursforSix]

him going through shit gives a lot more justification to ask tommy to take over for him. one of the things that always felt a little out of place in the game, how eager he was to just ask tommy to take over when he seemed completely capable

Again, I didn't play the game but when watching the show, it's obvious the girl's best chances to getting the Fireflies was with Tommy. Although it might not have played out much different.
Also, in the show, the Indians made it seem like it was going to be a tough journey to get to the college. When it was actually pretty easy.

[spurraider21]

Again, I didn't play the game but when watching the show, it's obvious the girl's best chances to getting the Fireflies was with Tommy. Although it might not have played out much different.
oh yeah, in the show its made very clear that joel is probably a shell of his former self. allowing himself to get snuck up on requiring ellie to save him, allowing henry/sam to sneak up on them despite having laid out the glass traps. and then he started having his breating/anxiety issues as a result of those. it makes sense that Tommy would be the better option.

game joel didnt really have those issues. it was just a more bland "tommy knows the area better than me"... which while true, didnt hit nearly as hard


Also, in the show, the Indians made it seem like it was going to be a tough journey to get to the college. When it was actually pretty easy.
the indians were showing them how to get to the are in wyoming where tommy was last known to be. turned out the piles of bodies they were fearing were put out there by tommy's people as a deterrent for other people to try them.

it was tommy who told joel that the fireflies had been set up at the colorado university.

[Joseph Kony]

him going through shit gives a lot more justification to ask tommy to take over for him. one of the things that always felt a little out of place in the game, how eager he was to just ask tommy to take over when he seemed completely capable

idk about that. the game makes it pretty obvious why this is - he doesnt want to lose another "daughter," and he thinks Tommy will be able to protect her since he failed to protect Sarah. especially since this happens right after the mission with Henry where he basically sees the same thing happen to him. I dont think making him a sniveling crybaby all of a sudden made the reasoning better

[SpursforSix]

oh yeah, in the show its made very clear that joel is probably a shell of his former self. allowing himself to get snuck up on requiring ellie to save him, allowing henry/sam to sneak up on them despite having laid out the glass traps. and then he started having his breating/anxiety issues as a result of those. it makes sense that Tommy would be the better option.

game joel didnt really have those issues. it was just a more bland "tommy knows the area better than me"... which while true, didnt hit nearly as hard


the indians were showing them how to get to the are in wyoming where tommy was last known to be. turned out the piles of bodies they were fearing were put out there by tommy's people as a deterrent for other people to try them.

it was tommy who told joel that the fireflies had been set up at the colorado university.

Got it. But after crossing death river, I'd at least they would have seen some bodies.

[spurraider21]

idk about that. the game makes it pretty obvious why this is - he doesnt want to lose another "daughter," and he thinks Tommy will be able to protect her since he failed to protect Sarah. especially since this happens right after the mission with Henry where he basically sees the same thing happen to him. I dont think making him a sniveling crybaby all of a sudden made the reasoning better
even if taken at face value, a guy getting emotional over fear of losing another daughter seems totally normal imo

[baseline bum]

him going through shit gives a lot more justification to ask tommy to take over for him. one of the things that always felt a little out of place in the game, how eager he was to just ask tommy to take over when he seemed completely capable

but i agree the KC backstory took a lot of time and didnt have much payoff. no matter what they did, i couldnt seem to care at all for kathleen or her crew. 90% of her scenes it seemed like she was never in synch with that crew, she was always pushing them to expend resources they didnt want to in order to hunt down henry to satisfy her personal beef. seemed like they all thought she was over the edge. and then when she outright told bearded assistant guy that she doesnt give a fuck, she just wants to capture henry, he kinda just said "we're all with you." so... ok? all those scenes when people were seemingly doubting her just didnt matter?

i do think henry/sam were well done, and they did need to give some sort of background about KC to explain why Henry was on the run or hiding, as opposed to just randomly being another refugee trying to escape from there. he also had to go through the moral exercise of sabotaging a resistance that he believed in (and backstabbing a leader that he basically worshipped) just to give medication to his little brother... and all that ending with him having to kill said brother. its just that kathleen and her people were never convincing characters

I mean knowing what you know about the story I'm not sure how Kathleen and her actions seem that strange.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I mean knowing what you know about the story I'm not sure how Kathleen and her actions seem that strange.

A central theme of the show is the dichotomy of what people will do for both the protection of loved ones as well as what happens when they are killed without justice.

Her top enforcer spells out the latter when he says that she was the one that got them out from under the thumb of KC Phedra and that is why they follow her. The orgy of rape and violence that started the episode demonstrating that the current status quo was recent. No, it shouldn't be hard to fathom.

[Joseph Kony]

even if taken at face value, a guy getting emotional over fear of losing another daughter seems totally normal imo
and that emotion manifests by him wanting to dump her off on Tommy, not by turning into a sniveling wuss. i didn't say it wasnt normal or whatever, i personally just dont like the changes to joel's character. i always thought he was a giant asshole, and at the end of the first game I thought so even more :lol so when he got Abby'd in the second game I was not really upset about it as it was basically justified. they are trying to make him more relatable and less of a psychotic asshole which is fine and dandy but personally, not my cup of tea

[spurraider21]

I mean knowing what you know about the story I'm not sure how Kathleen and her actions seem that strange.
its not that i didnt understand her motives. its that i didnt think her character was very compelling. i found it hard to care. i mean when she has that whole scene in that room and she talks about how her brother made her feel safe, etc. it was just very hard to care because they show her to be as ruthless as the fedra they were replacing.

i also get that beard guy told her that she ended up accomplishing her brothers goal of overthrowing fedra, and that is why they are with here. fine. but then why the multiple scenes of all of her people second guessing her and giving those weird looks when she was giving all the commands to search door to door, etc. they just made it seem like her grasp on those folk was tenuous at best and then beard guy just says nah its all good lets go

they handled it very differently with marlene in episode 1, when the fireflies were second guessing her tactics of hitting unimportant targets. and then they were second guessing why they were withdrawing from boston. and instead of a random "forget all that second guessing, we're with you"... at least marlene earned some trust when she told her 2nd in command exactly what was going on (showed the message about ellie), explained why they were hitting those specific targets to clear an escape path, etc. once she gave an explanation, the trust in her felt earned. i didnt get anything like that from kathleen

[baseline bum]

its not that i didnt understand her motives. its that i didnt think her character was very compelling. i found it hard to care. i mean when she has that whole scene in that room and she talks about how her brother made her feel safe, etc. it was just very hard to care because they show her to be as ruthless as the fedra they were replacing.

i also get that beard guy told her that she ended up accomplishing her brothers goal of overthrowing fedra, and that is why they are with here. fine. but then why the multiple scenes of all of her people second guessing her and giving those weird looks when she was giving all the commands to search door to door, etc. they just made it seem like her grasp on those folk was tenuous at best and then beard guy just says nah its all good lets go

they handled it very differently with marlene in episode 1, when the fireflies were second guessing her tactics of hitting unimportant targets. and then they were second guessing why they were withdrawing from boston. and instead of a random "forget all that second guessing, we're with you"... at least marlene earned some trust when she told her 2nd in command exactly what was going on (showed the message about ellie), explained why they were hitting those specific targets to clear an escape path, etc. once she gave an explanation, the trust in her felt earned. i didnt get anything like that from kathleen

You have played both games right?

[spurraider21]

You have played both games right?
nope, only the first

but my drawing a contrast between marlene and kathleen is just based on what ive seen in the show

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The difference is a population that had been under the thumb of a repressive regime for years and a self selecting resistance group made of disparate people deployed across a disparate area. thinking the fireflies are analogous to the citizenry of KC is ignorant.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

George Martin had a point about his willingness to kill off important characters to keep readers invested. I find I am not worried at all about Joel even given a gut wound.

[spurraider21]

The difference is a population that had been under the thumb of a repressive regime for years and a self selecting resistance group made of disparate people deployed across a disparate area. thinking the fireflies are analogous to the citizenry of KC is ignorant.
i was comparing contrasting marlene/kathleen as leaders, not the fireflies to the KC resistance. marlene wasnt above killing people and attacking even civilian areas to accomplish her goals. even her own people were asking wtf she is doing kidnapping and holding ellie captive against her will. this is not about the respective moral character of the two groups. i found kathleen's character to not be compelling nor did i find the blind trust of her followers to have been earned. marlene did better at that with much less screentime and background having been given

but yeah, if you want to get into the two groups, we can. KC was liberated from a particularly fascist/brutal faction of fedra. but what does that liberation look like to the viewer? not much. people being rounded up, hunted down, and killed. and they still have a weird system where they try to bait and ambush random travelers. now we didnt really see how the day to day life of the average person in KC and how it probably has improved from having been under fedra's boot. but from a viewers perspective, we dont get any of that. so the attempt to humanize kathleen and attempt to make her a sympathetic (yet flawed) figure, just falls flat imo. which sucks considering they invested a couple of episodes into that saga. the only good thing kathleen's sob story did for me as a viewer was give more depth to henry's character, which did work well

[FuzzyLumpkins]

i was comparing contrasting marlene/kathleen as leaders, not the fireflies to the KC resistance. marlene wasnt above killing people and attacking even civilian areas to accomplish her goals. even her own people were asking wtf she is doing kidnapping and holding ellie captive against her will. this is not about the respective moral character of the two groups. i found kathleen's character to not be compelling nor did i find the blind trust of her followers to have been earned. marlene did better at that with much less screentime and background having been given

but yeah, if you want to get into the two groups, we can. KC was liberated from a particularly fascist/brutal faction of fedra. but what does that liberation look like to the viewer? not much. people being rounded up, hunted down, and killed. and they still have a weird system where they try to bait and ambush random travelers. now we didnt really see how the day to day life of the average person in KC and how it probably has improved from having been under fedra's boot. but from a viewers perspective, we dont get any of that. so the attempt to humanize kathleen and attempt to make her a sympathetic (yet flawed) figure, just falls flat imo. which sucks considering they invested a couple of episodes into that saga. the only good thing kathleen's sob story did for me as a viewer was give more depth to henry's character, which did work well

you felt you were supposed to have sympathy for her? i didn't. that scene followed her ignoring an obvious threat, her straight up saying she is dishonoring her brothers wishes and was juxtaposed with her making everyone unsafe. IOW, she was a cunt who lost her safe space so was bent on revenge at the expense of all else.

And I was speaking on how an oppressed people would look upon the leader that overthrew the oppressive regime as opposed to how a self selecting group of people from different locations would look upon their leader. AR-15 guy spells it out.

[spurraider21]

you felt you were supposed to have sympathy for her? i didn't. that scene followed her ignoring an obvious threat, her straight up saying she is dishonoring her brothers wishes and was juxtaposed with her making everyone unsafe. IOW, she was a cunt who lost her safe space so was bent on revenge at the expense of all else.
and AR15 guy ended up saying "we dont care about all that. we are with you". it just seemed very easy after the scenes where she was clearly giving orders that they werent comfortable with

[FuzzyLumpkins]

and AR15 guy ended up saying "we dont care about all that. we are with you". it just seemed very easy after the scenes where she was clearly giving orders that they werent comfortable with

What he said after she said she had forsaken all of her brother's ideals was that he didn't overthrow Fedra but she did. I think you should rewatch it.

[Xevious]

and that emotion manifests by him wanting to dump her off on Tommy, not by turning into a sniveling wuss. i didn't say it wasnt normal or whatever, i personally just dont like the changes to joel's character. i always thought he was a giant asshole, and at the end of the first game I thought so even more :lol so when he got Abby'd in the second game I was not really upset about it as it was basically justified. they are trying to make him more relatable and less of a psychotic asshole which is fine and dandy but personally, not my cup of tea
I get what you're saying, but I think with the exclusion of all the gameplay elements there are a lot of subtle details that are missed out. So they are being much more overt in showing Joel's feelings here, otherwise he may just come off as a dick just because.

At the end of the day it's just a different take on the character. They are also really playing up his age, physical limitations, and mental health issues following the death of Sarah. Hopefully that will make the final act more impactful when you see just how far he's willing to go.

[Xevious]

i was comparing contrasting marlene/kathleen as leaders, not the fireflies to the KC resistance. marlene wasnt above killing people and attacking even civilian areas to accomplish her goals. even her own people were asking wtf she is doing kidnapping and holding ellie captive against her will. this is not about the respective moral character of the two groups. i found kathleen's character to not be compelling nor did i find the blind trust of her followers to have been earned. marlene did better at that with much less screentime and background having been given

but yeah, if you want to get into the two groups, we can. KC was liberated from a particularly fascist/brutal faction of fedra. but what does that liberation look like to the viewer? not much. people being rounded up, hunted down, and killed. and they still have a weird system where they try to bait and ambush random travelers. now we didnt really see how the day to day life of the average person in KC and how it probably has improved from having been under fedra's boot. but from a viewers perspective, we dont get any of that. so the attempt to humanize kathleen and attempt to make her a sympathetic (yet flawed) figure, just falls flat imo. which sucks considering they invested a couple of episodes into that saga. the only good thing kathleen's sob story did for me as a viewer was give more depth to henry's character, which did work well
You bring up a good point. The ambushing of travelers thing comes off as really odd considering the KC citizens literally just won their freedom 10 or 11 days prior. It's never really revealed, but you get the impression in the game that the Pittsburgh QZ has been gone for years, and this has been one way the hunters have survived, by killing and stealing from trespassers.

[spurraider21]

What he said after she said she had forsaken all of her brother's ideals was that he didn't overthrow Fedra but she did. I think you should rewatch it.
ive watched every episode twice save for the one that just came out yesterday.

im not getting into a tit for tat over exactly what lines came when. that whole chat more or less concluded "we're with you" or the general message that nobody is having second thoughts/doubts about her leadership, which flew in the face of some previous scenes, and right after a conversation between her and AR15 guy where she basically said nothing redeemable about her decision making

[FuzzyLumpkins]

ive watched every episode twice save for the one that just came out yesterday.

im not getting into a tit for tat over exactly what lines came when. that whole chat more or less concluded "we're with you" or the general message that nobody is having second thoughts/doubts about her leadership, which flew in the face of some previous scenes, and right after a conversation between her and AR15 guy where she basically said nothing redeemable about her decision making

:lol you were demonstrably wrong about what he said. I am arguing your proposition not tit for tat, Crayola.

And it is amusing you think that was an attempt to humanize her. I guess you think face time does that in and of itself. That scene ends with he shitting on her brother's legacy.

[spurraider21]

:lol you were demonstrably wrong about what he said. I am arguing your proposition not tit for tat, Crayola.

And it is amusing you think that was an attempt to humanize her. I guess you think face time does that in and of itself. That scene ends with he shitting on her brother's legacy.
wait. did he not say "we're with you" or something along those lines at the end of that conversation?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

wait. did he not say "we're with you" or something along those lines at the end of that conversation?

:lol you demonstrated you don't know just now.

[spurraider21]

:lol you demonstrated you don't know just now.
this is unintelligible

me: beard guy assured kathleen that "we're with you"

you: lol you are demonstrably wrong about what he said

me: wait, did he not say "we're with you" at the end of the conversation?

you: LOL you just demonstrated you dont know


you aren't engaging tbh

[spurraider21]

from the episode summary on the TLOU fan wiki


Kathleen stands in her and Michael's childhood room. Perry arrives with no updates on the location of Henry or the man who killed Bryan and asks Kathleen how she is doing. Kathleen reflects on how Michael raised her not to be afraid, and reveals that the day before his death, he asked her to forgive Henry for betraying him. However, she feels she does not have it in her to forgive and expresses doubt that she should even be leading the revolutionaries. Perry reminds her she led them when overthrowing FEDRA, not Michael, and that he and the others have her back.

https://thelastofus.fandom.com/wiki/Endure_and_Survive

so yeah, i was demonstrably right. he assured her that they all have her back which is what my claim was. not sure if you were trying to gaslight by saying i was "demonstrably wrong" about what was said or if you are just unable to follow a conversation

[FuzzyLumpkins]

this is unintelligible

me: beard guy assured kathleen that "we're with you"

you: lol you misremembered what he said

me: wait, did he not say "we're with you" at the end of the coversation?

you: LOL you just demonstrated you dont know


you aren't engaging tbh

You know but your asking anyway?

What he said is, "you're brother was a great man, we all loved him but he didn't change. . . anything. you did. we are with you."

IOW, he didn't save us from the oppressive regime but you did so we follow you.

It's not hard but dumbing the entire thing down to the very last 4 words by not paying attention loses context.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nBOrVKtGrc&ab_channel=SLEEPER

[spurraider21]

thanks for the clip


You know but your asking anyway?
sometimes thats how people talk when they are confirming something

"wait, didnt xyz happen?"


What he said is, "you're brother was a great man, we all loved him but he didn't change. . . anything. you did. we are with you."

IOW, he didn't save us from the oppressive regime but you did so we follow you.

It's not hard but dumbing the entire thing down to the very last line by not paying attention loses context.
yeah. guy questions her judgment/decision making. suggests that she also should forgive henry or just let it go. this comes after a scene where she insists they go door to door and she gets immediate pushback saying thats going to take a lot of resources. then he comes here trying to talk her off that ledge. she says no, she doesnt give a fuck about forgiveness and still just wants to hunt henry down

and then he follows that with his reassurance that they're with her. all the judgment questioning from before just ignored, and it wasnt just the one time either, there was another scene in the previous episode where it was kinda clear that some of the other resistance folk were not on the same page as her. but all that wiped away. we're with you. im saying it didnt feel earned at all.

in direct contrast with marlene, who when she knew there was discord among the ranks, she at least made an effort to explain the situation and earn their trust

i dont know how you watch that scene and not think it was an attempt to humanize kathleen. not agree with her or think she is making the right choices, but at least empathizing with why she is so hell bent on the henry pursuit.

nothing said in this scene mattered at all though because he had already determined that they're with her before anything she said here. so why waste our time with 3 minutes? thats why im saying, the the time they spent to build up the KC storyline, and in particular, kathleen, simply didnt pay off for me, with the exception if giving more depth to henry. i still am enjoying the show, and even thought the episodes on the whole were quite good. i just wasnt a fan of how some of that stuff was dealt with

[baseline bum]

Dude you need to play the second game already spurraider21

[FuzzyLumpkins]

thanks for the clip


sometimes thats how people talk when they are confirming something

"wait, didnt xyz happen?"


yeah. guy questions her judgment/decision making. suggests that she also should forgive henry or just let it go. this comes after a scene where she insists they go door to door and she gets immediate pushback saying thats going to take a lot of resources. then he comes here trying to talk her off that ledge. she says no, she doesnt give a fuck about forgiveness and still just wants to hunt henry down

and then he follows that with his reassurance that they're with her. all the judgment questioning from before just ignored, and it wasnt just the one time either, there was another scene in the previous episode where it was kinda clear that some of the other resistance folk were not on the same page as her. but all that wiped away. we're with you. im saying it didnt feel earned at all. nothing said in this scene mattered at all because he had already determined that they're with her before anything she said here.

in direct contrast with marlene, who when she knew there was discord among the ranks, she at least made an effort to explain the situation and earn their trust

i dont know how you watch that scene and not think it was an attempt to humanize kathleen. not agree with her or think she is making the right choices, but at least empathizing with why she is so hell bent on the henry pursuit

You have gone from claiming I am unintelligible to a whine. Nice.

And at the very end he distills it down for even a simpleton like you to understand. they are conflicted but at the end of the day she saved them from an oppressive regime so they are with her. there is no analog to that in the fireflies. that you keep insisting on the comparison as apples to apples is funny though.

Your original claim was sympathize so let's stick to that, eh? No I do not sympathize with someone who states that they surrendered everything the one they are seeking revenge for held ideal. It makes her out to be a selfish cunt. Is that human, sure, but base human motivations are not necessarily desirable.

[spurraider21]

You have gone from claiming I am unintelligible to a whine. Nice.

And at the very end he distills it down for even a simpleton like you to understand. they are conflicted but at the end of the day she saved them from an oppressive regime so they are with her. there is no analog to that in the fireflies. that you keep insisting on the comparison as apples to apples is funny though.

Your original claim was sympathize so let's stick to that, eh? No I do not sympathize with someone who states that they surrendered everything the one they are seeking revenge for held ideal. It makes her out to be a selfish cunt. Is that human, sure, but base human motivations are not necessarily desirable.


:lol you were demonstrably wrong about what he said. I am arguing your proposition not tit for tat, Crayola.

And it is amusing you think that was an attempt to humanize her. I guess you think face time does that in and of itself. That scene ends with he shitting on her brother's legacy.
:lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lol

I doubt that someone with your reliance on cognitive bias and fallacy was ever able to pass the LSAT much less the bar. You fixate on winning isolated points of fact and are incapable of forming a coherent argument. With the same brain decrying tit for tat you go for this facile nonsense.

You are truly Counselor Crayola.

You did dumb down the end of the exchange and completely missed the point. Your comparison remains ignorant because of it. But hey the scene "humanized her" even if it did nothing to ingratiate an attentive audience to the character.

[spurraider21]

I doubt that someone with your reliance on cognitive bias and fallacy was ever able to pass the LSAT much less the bar. You fixate on winning isolated points of fact and are incapable of forming a coherent argument. With the same brain decrying tit for tat you go for this facile nonsense.

You are truly Counselor Crayola.

You did dumb down the end of the exchange and completely missed the point. Your comparison remains ignorant because of it. But hey the scene "humanized her" even if it did nothing to ingratiate an attentive audience to the character.
LSAT isn’t pass fail. And it was actually the strong point of my applications. And I’ve passed two bars, not one

you are foaming at the mouth out of personal spite and are incapable of simply discussing the topic at hand. I’m not going to contribute to the derailment of the thread any further so done responding to ya for now

[spurraider21]

:lol

https://i.gyazo.com/89bff79823596a5c668e04277525084d.png

[baseline bum]

they wasted too much time trying to make a backstory for the Hunters in KC and ended up rushing this episode imo. don't like the whole emo Joel thing they're doing either

I mean you know what it's foreshadowing with Joel and you know what Kathleen foreshadows too now that we know how the main story plays out from the games. EMO Joel makes sense early on because he still thinks he's Ellie's only hope. But the morning after Ellie tells him she isn't Sarah that EMO shit is gone as he realizes she has real survival skills and isn't completely dependent on his old ass.

[spurraider21]

EMO Joel makes sense early on because he still thinks he's Ellie's only hope. But the morning after Ellie tells him she isn't Sarah that EMO shit is gone as he realizes she has real survival skills and isn't completely dependent on his old ass.
i mean, when he has the first panic attack on screen, Ellie literally says "if you die, i'm fucked", and during the big argument she tells him that she'd be too scared without him. dno if the takeaway is that he suddenly realizes that she isnt dependent on him

he already saw some of her survival skills (taking watch when Joel fell asleep, shanking some infected during the sniper shootout) before they ran into Tommy and he was still feeling all of that. i think he just realized that he doesnt have it in him to actually leave her, even if he's scared or legitimately believes Tommy is better suited for the job.

Tess told him to save who he can save. the letter from Bill told him to protect Tess (now Ellie), and that people like Bill and Joel are here to serve that purpose, to protect those close to them. he thought he saw Sarah while in Wyoming in the crowd, and then he had that dream sequence with his fixed watch, etc. as much as he doesnt want to accept it (you're not my daughter), think he just finally came to grips that he sees Ellie as a daughter figure and no longer just cargo.

i didnt think him deciding to go along with Ellie meant he's suddenly over the panic attacks/anxiety/fear, but rather that he feels he needs to endure it because this is his purpose now

[baseline bum]

i mean, when he has the first panic attack on screen, Ellie literally says "if you die, i'm fucked", and during the big argument she tells him that she'd be too scared without him. dno if the takeaway is that he suddenly realizes that she isnt dependent on him

he already saw some of her survival skills (taking watch when Joel fell asleep, shanking some infected during the sniper shootout) before they ran into Tommy and he was still feeling all of that. i think he just realized that he doesnt have it in him to actually leave her, even if he's scared or legitimately believes Tommy is better suited for the job.

Tess told him to save who he can save. the letter from Bill told him to protect Tess (now Ellie), and that people like Bill and Joel are here to serve that purpose, to protect those close to them. he thought he saw Sarah while in Wyoming in the crowd, and then he had that dream sequence with his fixed watch, etc. as much as he doesnt want to accept it (you're not my daughter), think he just finally came to grips that he sees Ellie as a daughter figure and no longer just cargo.

i didnt think him deciding to go along with Ellie meant he's suddenly over the panic attacks/anxiety/fear, but rather that he feels he needs to endure it because this is his purpose now

IDK, seems like he trusts her a lot more once she tells him she isn't Sarah and he has a night to come to terms with it. He doesn't protest at all in the morning once she picks him over Tommy even though he knows Tommy is more qualified.

[spurraider21]

IDK, seems like he trusts her a lot more once she tells him she isn't Sarah and he has a night to come to terms with it. He doesn't protest at all in the morning once she picks him over Tommy even though he knows Tommy is more qualified.
LOL he knew damn well she was going to pick him over Tommy, as evidenced by their previous interaction. by "giving her the choice" he was basically saying "im going with you because i dont have it in me to let you go" without admitting it outright. it was just theater on his part tbh

i reallllly dont think he "gave her a choice" because he suddenly felt she was capable. that was just his way of changing his mind but pretending like he was making it her choice. followed the spirit of the game where he just ends up changing his mind and telling Ellie to give her horse back to Tommy and hop on his horse.

[baseline bum]

LOL he knew damn well she was going to pick him over Tommy, as evidenced by their previous interaction. by "giving her the choice" he was basically saying "im going with you because i dont have it in me to let you go" without admitting it outright. it was just theater on his part tbh


I don't buy that. If it was helpless Sarah he would have ensured she was escorted by Tommy by any means necessary. I don't think Ellie's "I'm not her" was a throwaway line.



i reallllly dont think he "gave her a choice" because he suddenly felt she was capable. that was just his way of changing his mind but pretending like he was making it her choice. followed the spirit of the game where he just ends up changing his mind and telling Ellie to give her horse back to Tommy and hop on his horse.

TV show Joel isn't game Joel.

[spurraider21]

I don't buy that. If it was helpless Sarah he would have ensured she was escorted by Tommy by any means necessary. I don't think Ellie's "I'm not her" was a throwaway line.



TV show Joel isn't game Joel.
Brah after their argument joel goes away and has a dream of Sarah with his watch fixed and all and next thing you know he’s waiting at the stables for her :lol

of course “I’m not her” isn’t a throwaway line. She finally realized why Joel has been distant with her, wants to pawn her off. he doesnt want to lose somebody else and blame himself again. he feels like he failed sarah, obviously. then he failed tess (especially after Bill's letter saying his purpose is to defend people and specifically told him to keep Tess safe). he saw henry fail sam. now with the near death situations he thinks hes going to fail Ellie too and she'll wind up dead because of him. pawning her off on tommy was his out

but despite all that, when the rubber met the road, he didnt have it in him to leave her

[Adam Lambert]

Man that would be a shitty and anticlimactic way for Joel to die if that's what happened.

[spurraider21]

Man that would be a shitty and anticlimactic way for Joel to die if that's what happened.
He tried to warn Tommy. He’s weaker than he was, and can’t hear well enough. Got snuck up on again in a damn open field

[spurraider21]

Pedro Pascal is great, but seems horribly miscast here.


yeah honestly i have no clue how Pascal could pull off the role of a rugged loner badass who softens up after taking on an adoptive father role to a child he has to shepherd to safety with a very small handful of friends/people he can trust along the way


Whoops my bad I didn’t see where he was wearing a full suit of armor as Joel the whole time, my mistake tbh.


Why not put Arnold Schwarzenegger in that role, he’s been a badass who connects with children and the only difference is hE’d LoOk a LiTtLe AuStRiAn!


The Rock as Joel!

-badass
-good with kids
-only difference is he looks a little Samoan!
https://media1.giphy.com/media/6L015gMEW3pFC/200w.gif?cid=6c09b952rycybh37mpq86vvz0563e304e2iqe zrj8xv6idm9&rid=200w.gif&ct=g

[Monostradamus]

Only seen the first 3 episodes, but being completely honest, Pedro has been mostly nondescript and bland as “Joel”, and getting outshone by everyone else in the cast. Hope that changes tbh, I’d love to be wrong about him.

[spurraider21]

By far weakest episode of the series. Took an hour to tell a 20-25 minute story

[Momo]

Only seen the first 3 episodes, but being completely honest, Pedro has been mostly nondescript and bland as “Joel”, and getting outshone by everyone else in the cast. Hope that changes tbh, I’d love to be wrong about him.
Pedro escorting Ellie through trouble to save the world is much like Pedro escorting Grogu through the galaxy to save the world. Pedro is unremarkable, but the characters around him are entertaining.

[baseline bum]

By far weakest episode of the series. Took an hour to tell a 20-25 minute story

Sucks that there is no way they're going to be able to finish the first game in this season with only two episodes left. Really thought the Left Behind stuff would only be half an episode too.