Turnover of roster leads to sloppiness for Spurs

[spursupporter]

Johnny Ludden
Express-News Staff Writer


BOSTON — In the final minutes of the Spurs' victory in Charlotte on Wednesday night, Nick Van Exel stood on the sideline, writing down one of the team's sets as assistant coach Don Newman watched.

Though the game was nearly over, Van Exel's lesson continued.

"There are times where I was in the wrong place on a couple of plays," Van Exel said. "So I still have to get familiar with it and learn to just relax out on the court and not be in such a hurry."

Van Exel isn't alone in his haste. Through their first five games, the Spurs (4-1) have averaged 18 turnovers, a noticeable jump from last season's average of 13.7.

While some mistakes can be attributed to new players trying to learn the offense, some veterans also plead guilty to playing with too much exuberance.

"I think we go too fast some times to try to make stuff happen," point guard Tony Parker said. "We just have to let the game come to us, me or Manu (Ginobili) — every guard. We have to wait. We can't play too fast.

"And we can't forget we have Timmy (Duncan)."

The Spurs weathered 22 turnovers against Charlotte, 15 of which came in the first half. Coach Gregg Popovich lit into the team at halftime, only to watch the Bobcats bat away passes from Duncan and Parker early in the third quarter.

"We understood they were a team that got into the lanes and got their hands on a lot of balls," Duncan said, "and we still kind of fell into that trap."

The Spurs should expect more of the same tonight. While the Bobcats lead the NBA with 12.2 steals per game, Boston ranks second with 11.8.

Wednesday, the Spurs steadied themselves by leaning on Duncan in the third quarter. Fifteen of his 29 points came during a seven-minute stretch when the team expanded its lead to double digits.

"When Timmy gets the ball," Parker said, "we play with a better pace and more control."

Duncan and Parker each had five turnovers against the Bobcats, though some were the result of teammates not being prepared to receive a pass or not being in the proper place on the court. With a bruised right thigh robbing him of much of his explosiveness, Ginobili also hasn't played with his usual efficiency. :depressed

Not that he's the only one hurting. Brent Barry, whose back continues to improve, isn't expected to play tonight or Saturday in Washington. Michael Finley's groin injury doesn't appear serious, but the Spurs didn't practice Thursday, so team officials won't know if he'll be available to play against the Celtics until he gets on the court this morning.

If any good figures to come from the Spurs' recent string of injuries, it's that Van Exel will likely have more minutes playing with Duncan. This is Van Exel's first chance to team with a dominant big man since he left Shaquille O'Neal and the Los Angeles Lakers eight years ago.

With Barry and Finley sidelined Wednesday, Popovich started Van Exel next to Parker. While that may not hold true tonight — the Celtics have a bigger and more athletic backcourt than the Bobcats — Van Exel knows that any time on the court these days is time well spent.

"Tim's a guy who demands a lot of attention, so when me and him run pick-and-rolls, if I can figure out what he's doing, it makes my job a lot easier," he said. "(Wednesday), I hit him in a couple spots where he was already at, so I felt comfortable with that."

[Marcus Bryant]

Oh yes, they said, depth was a luxury. Oh yes, they said, only 4 were needed. Oh yes, they said, the owner's purse is much more important.

And the beat goes on.

Enjoy it, Spurs fans. You got what you wanted.

[ducks]

you did not want nve or finely?

you knew both were getting up their with age
and barry has played more games then stephen jackson

[TDMVPDPOY]

for us to win the game tonite, good execution of plays, and duncan to carry this team, dominate and get to the line alot as possible.

[boutons]

The Green ballas are probably feelin damn good after nipping the superior Grizz at the buzzer.

Spurs needs to bring them back to earth with a thud.

[smeagol]

Oh yes, they said, depth was a luxury. Oh yes, they said, only 4 were needed. Oh yes, they said, the owner's purse is much more important.

And the beat goes on.

Enjoy it, Spurs fans. You got what you wanted.
The resident bitch.

[sprrs]

Oh yes, they said, depth was a luxury. Oh yes, they said, only 4 were needed. Oh yes, they said, the owner's purse is much more important.

And the beat goes on.

Enjoy it, Spurs fans. You got what you wanted.

doesn't bashing the owner ever get old? I mean yes I feel the sme way you do, the Spurs should hav ea little more financial flexibility, but you bash on them EVERY SINGLE CHANCE you get. I think we all know where you stand on the issue.

[Vashner]

What? Spurs always play like this...

[Rummpd]

SPURS have always had sloppy stretches but they are 4-1 and all but two teams in the NBA would change places right now.

No worries.

[easjer]

Dear Lord. Give it a rest already.

[Marcus Bryant]

doesn't bashing the owner ever get old? I mean yes I feel the sme way you do, the Spurs should hav ea little more financial flexibility, but you bash on them EVERY SINGLE CHANCE you get. I think we all know where you stand on the issue.


Why do we have to see a gaggle of girls express their unabashed love for Radoslav in every fucking thread?

I apologize for trying to steer the discussion to something of greater significance and alarm.

[ChumpDumper]

You got what you wanted.Another swingman? Ok.

[thispego]

Oh yes, they said, depth was a luxury. Oh yes, they said, only 4 were needed. Oh yes, they said, the owner's purse is much more important.

And the beat goes on.

Enjoy it, Spurs fans. You got what you wanted.
the only one who is getting what they wanted is your bitch ass MB, and that is another excuse to act like a dick. It's not that the rest of us WANTED 4 swings, it's just what we ended up with. Why do you have to keep pushing this issue?? we signed Sanders, your asshole should have unpuckered by now.

Why do we have to see a gaggle of girls express their unabashed love for Radoslav in every fucking thread?

I apologize for trying to steer the discussion to something of greater significance and alarm.
:lol true

[DesiSpur_21]

the only one who is getting what they wanted is your bitch ass MB, and that is another excuse to act like a dick. It's not that the rest of us WANTED 4 swings, it's just what we ended up with. Why do you have to keep pushing this issue?? we signed Sanders, your asshole should have unpuckered by now.


:tu This not only applies to MB, but a few others too.

Get over it and move on.

[Marcus Bryant]

Wow. The Spurs signed a rookie to a nonguaranteed deal after they lost 2 of their 4 swingmen.

Get over what? Ownership is fucking up and you guys want to pretend it isn't happening. Fuck that.

[sprrs]

Why do we have to see a gaggle of girls express their unabashed love for Radoslav in every fucking thread?

I apologize for trying to steer the discussion to something of greater significance and alarm.


It's the same thing but at least they're supporting their cause, while you're just bashing the ownership.

[Marcus Bryant]

That made no sense.

[SpursWoman]

Why do we have to see a gaggle of girls express their unabashed love for Radoslav in every fucking thread?

That's not one even I get .... :wtf :lol

[Shelly]

That's not one even I get .... :wtf :lol


Same here :lol

[Kip Fanatic]

We should all know by now that every mistake the Spurs make, every time they have a bad game, and every time a Spurs player gets injured that its the ownership's fault.

Signed
Marcus

[Ocotillo]

Why do we have to see a gaggle of girls express their unabashed love for Radoslav in every fucking thread?

I apologize for trying to steer the discussion to something of greater significance and alarm.

LOL, this post reminds me of Rodney Stinson. You go Marcus.

[ambchang]

Wow. The Spurs signed a rookie to a nonguaranteed deal after they lost 2 of their 4 swingmen.

Get over what? Ownership is fucking up and you guys want to pretend it isn't happening. Fuck that.

Perhaps I missed it in the other half a million posts where you were bashing ownership, but who else can we sign again? And how much that would cost?
Did you run a model with confidence intervals of how likely 4 solid swingman is not enough on a team?

[Marcus Bryant]

Perhaps I missed it in the other half a million posts where you were bashing ownership, but who else can we sign again?

The selection has somewhat narrowed since the offseason. But you still have guys like GRobinson and GLynch available.



And how much that would cost?


Probably 1 year at the vet's min for a player with 10+ yrs of experience. So $1 mil or so, prorated for the number of games left in the season, plus whatever foregone lux tax distributions there would be. The league also picks up a portion of that minimum salary, so the Spurs wouldn't pay the full salary.



Did you run a model with confidence intervals of how likely 4 solid swingman is not enough on a team?

Yeah, at 90% and 95% confidence levels. Anyways, it shouldn't be that hard to see that if you have a swingman rotation with 3 of the 4 guys you were carrying were older and some of them had injury problems before that you might need a little more depth.

I don't see how some of you think this is something extravagant or something the Spurs have not done before. They carried 6 swingmen last season.

Now they are starting NVE at the 2, playing TP 40+ minutes and instead of letting a hurt Manu rest they are forced to play him. This is ridiculous, especially when you consider the cost of having what had been standard swingman depth in SA.

But whatever, go ahead and stick your heads in the sand and chatter about really important shit, like how cute Radoslav is or how Manu cut his hair or whatever.

[Spurminator]

That's not one even I get .... :wtf :lol

Liar...

http://img435.imageshack.us/img435/2740/rashosw6ww5cr.jpg

[Shelly]

Liar...

http://img435.imageshack.us/img435/2740/rashosw6ww5cr.jpg


Is Rasho embalmbed?

[SpursWoman]

Liar...

http://img435.imageshack.us/img435/2740/rashosw6ww5cr.jpg


Oh, sweet Jesus....it looks like he's about to vomit in my mouth. :wow :vomit :vomit


:lmao :lmao

[Spurminator]

Ever seen South Park? You know what happens when Wendy kisses Stan?

:lol

[Shelly]

Oh, sweet Jesus....it looks like he's about to vomit in my mouth. :wow :vomit :vomit


:lmao :lmao


Oh, gross! :lmao

We need more holidays. SpursTalk is on a roll today.

[SpursWoman]

:rollin :lol

[Useruser666]

What holiday? I'm at work!

I've seen that Rasho CPR pick before. :lol

[sprrs]

That made no sense.

It made plenty of sense. I would rather listen to all those girls praise Rasho than you criticize the ownership. At least they're supporting their Spurs.

[Marcus Bryant]

It made plenty of sense. I would rather listen to all those girls praise Rasho than you criticize the ownership. At least they're supporting their Spurs.

Whaaa?

This isn't spurs.com.

[1Parker1]

MB, Angel_luv and Rashofan are sincerely insulted by your insensitive comments regarding their future husband

:)

[Bruno]

MB, Angel_luv and Rashofan are sincerely insulted by your insensitive comments regarding their future husband

:)

It's jealousy.
A lot of people bash Rasho only because they are envious of his sex appeal.
It take time to understand that nobody can't compete against him.
The more I see him the more I love him : Am I gay or is it only Rasho strange power that disturb me ? I'm completly lost.

[sprrs]

Whaaa?

This isn't spurs.com.

:rolleyes

Whatever. Keep on with your pointless ramblings which will accomplish absolutely nothing.

[Mr. Body]

It's amazing how much Marcus Bryant drives down the discourse on this board.

[Marcus Bryant]

Yet another prime Mr. Body contribution. I'm glad you hate my opinions so. Too bad you can't back up yours and instead choose to follow me around like a lost puppy dog in this forum.

[ambchang]

The selection has somewhat narrowed since the offseason. But you still have guys like GRobinson and GLynch available.

Probably 1 year at the vet's min for a player with 10+ yrs of experience. So $1 mil or so, prorated for the number of games left in the season, plus whatever foregone lux tax distributions there would be. The league also picks up a portion of that minimum salary, so the Spurs wouldn't pay the full salary.

Yeah, at 90% and 95% confidence levels. Anyways, it shouldn't be that hard to see that if you have a swingman rotation with 3 of the 4 guys you were carrying were older and some of them had injury problems before that you might need a little more depth.

I don't see how some of you think this is something extravagant or something the Spurs have not done before. They carried 6 swingmen last season.

Now they are starting NVE at the 2, playing TP 40+ minutes and instead of letting a hurt Manu rest they are forced to play him. This is ridiculous, especially when you consider the cost of having what had been standard swingman depth in SA.

But whatever, go ahead and stick your heads in the sand and chatter about really important shit, like how cute Radoslav is or how Manu cut his hair or whatever.

So your solution of negating the probability of having 4 swingmen (that's the 2 and 3 positions) injured is to considering Glenn Robinson and George Lynch, who must be a million years old and have a history of being injured, and your argument for a need of > 4 swingmen on the roster is age and injury history?

Now let's look at other team's roster and see how many of them career 4 quality swingmen. By "quality" I mean to say that players who are at least as good as Glenn Robinson or George Lynch:
Atlanta: Josh Childress, Al Harrington, Joe Johnson, Josh Smith. All extremely inexperienced. Their team suck
Boston: Paul Pierce, Ricky Davis, Gerald Green, Delonte West and maybe Tony Allen
Charlotte: Gerald Wallace, Kareem Rush. Their team suck too.
Chicago: Luol Deng, Ben Gordon, Andrews Nocioni, Eric Piatkowski.
Cleveland: LeBron James, Larry Hughes, Luke Jackson, Ira Newble, Shasha Pavlovic (5 swing)
Dallas: Doug Christie, Marquis Daniels, Josh Howard, Jerry Stackhouse.
Denver: Carmelo Anthony, DerMarr Johnson, Voshon Lenard, Bryan Russell
Detroit: Carlos Delfino, Rip Hamilton, Tayshaun Prince.
GS: Calbert Cheaney, Mike Dunleavy, Mickael Pietrus, Jason Richardson
Houston: T-Mac, Derek Anderson, Jon Barry, Dion Glover, Bob Sura (5 swing)
Indiana: Ron Artest, J Bender, Steve Jax, Fred Jones
LA Clips: Maggette, Mobley, Quinton Ross
LA Lakers: Kobe, Devean George, McKie, Smush Parker, Sasha Vujacic (5 swing)
Memphis: Battier, Dahntay Jones, Eddie Jones, Mike Miller
Miami: Shadon Anderson, Jason Kapono, James Posey, Dwayne Wade
Milwaukee: Redd, Simmons, Jiri Welsch
Minnesota: Hassell, Jaric, McCants, Szczerbiak.
New Jersey: Carter, Jefferson, Jeff McInnis, Lamond Murray
NY: Trevor Ariza, Anfernee Hardaway, Q Richardson, Jamal Crawford.
NO: Rasual Butler, Desmond Mason, Bostjan Nachbar, JR Smith
Orlando: Stacey Augmon, Steve Francis, DeShawn Stevenson, Hedo Turkoglu
Philly: Andre Iguodala, Allen Iverson, Kyle Korver, Lee Nailon, John Salmons (5 swing)
Phoenix: Raja Bell, Boris Diaw, James Jones, Shawn Marion
Portland: Juan Dixon, Darius Miles, Ruben Patterson, Martell Webster
Sacramento: Peja Stojakovic, Bonzi Wells, Corliss Williamson (mostly inside, but still, I will just take him)
Seattle: Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis, Ronald Murray, Damien Wilkins
Toronto: Jalen Rose, Joey Graham, Mo Pete
Utah: Devin Brown, Giricek, Matt Harpring, Kirilenko,
Washington: Arenas, Butler, Antonio Daniels, Jeffries

Out of 29 other teams, only TWO teams have >4 swing, Cleveland and Houston, and Houston has 5 because they knew they don't have Bob Sura coming into the season, and I am really stretching the meaning of "quality" when I include Luke Jackson in the Cleveland team. Also, you can see that most team have 4, but then, again, I stretched the meaning of quality.
In conclusion, it is unusual, to say the least, to spend so much resources at the wing when there are other positions to worry about, ESPECIALLY when you are an inside oriented team that already has one all-star, one all defensive, one former all-star, and one former dunk champ at the wing positions.

EDIT: I missed a few teams the first time around, so I will add them in, it turned out there are 4 teams, and I missed the Lakers and Philly, which are both donut teams.
Besides, it's arguable whether Lee Nailon, John Salmons, McKie and Smush Parker are quality players. But you get my point. It is just not common to carry that many.

[Marcus Bryant]

How many of those teams are carrying only 4 swings, regardless of "quality"? That's the issue here.

Also, must the Spurs only do what is common?

[ambchang]

How many of those teams are carrying only 4 swings, regardless of "quality"? That's the issue here.

Also, must the Spurs only do what is common?
Why would the Spurs go out and get swings of minimal quality? They can just sign one up from the CBA if need be. And not surprisingly, a large group of those teams only have 4 swings. The Spurs have priorities to set, why get an insurance plan right now when you can get it later when there is actually a need for it.
And the Spurs don't necessarily have to do the common thing, but given that there are limited resources, the Spurs should concentrate on the big picture, and having 4 starter quality swing on your roster is more than enough.

[Marcus Bryant]

Why didn't they before the start of the season? They signed Sanders after 2 of their 4 swings went down and now they are playing a F'ed up rotation. They had DBrown and LJ3 to round out their swing depth last season and DBrown ended up replacing Barry as the first swing off the bench for a good part of the season.

Wouldn't Lynch or GRobinson be a good addition to this team? You have Barry and Finley out with injuries of the persistent nagging type, you have Manu playing hurt and you have a messed up rotation. I don't believe Lynch or Robinson would require more than a 1 year, minimum contract. I don't see the rationale for not having depth at that position, even if it's off the young, inexperienced variety.

[ambchang]

Why didn't they before the start of the season? They signed Sanders after 2 of their 4 swings went down and now they are playing a F'ed up rotation. They had DBrown and LJ3 to round out their swing depth last season and DBrown ended up replacing Barry as the first swing off the bench for a good part of the season.

Wouldn't Lynch or GRobinson be a good addition to this team? You have Barry and Finley out with injuries of the persistent nagging type, you have Manu playing hurt and you have a messed up rotation. I don't believe Lynch or Robinson would require more than a 1 year, minimum contract. I don't see the rationale for not having depth at that position, even if it's off the young, inexperienced variety.

Why would they have to sign before the start of the season. 4 quality swings are plenty, whoever backup they sign for is not worth a couple of million that Utah paid Devin Brown.
So they went sign Sanders, having 4 quality swings is (or should this are ...) depth! Besides, Van Exel, with his shooter mentality could be a make shift 2, what's wrong with that?