14th Amendment, Section 3 and DJT

[Winehole23]

The 14th Amendment’s disqualification clause was mentioned during the impeachment, but never figured into it. In the last week or so there’s been more chatter about it.

Seems to be something about Trump that was anticipated by Reconstruction laws, Rep. Bennie Thompson just sued him under the KKK Act.

1361848011844820992

[Winehole23]

Section 3 was enforced for a few years at the federal and state levels, but in 1872 the necessary supermajorities in Congress granted an amnesty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amnesty_Act) to most of the men who were barred from office.


Now Section 3 is back in the news because of its declaration that officials who swore an oath to defend the Constitution and then “shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against” the United States are ineligible to serve in office again. This raises the significant question of whether President Trump and other individuals who played some part in the events surrounding the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol are now ineligible from future service. A review of the basic parameters of Section 3 suggests it is the best legal framework available for addressing the extraordinary events at the Capitol with respect to the eligibility of participants to hold public office.


https://www.lawfareblog.com/14th-amendments-disqualification-provision-and-events-jan-6

[SnakeBoy]

So scared of running against Trump again

[Reck]

So scared of running against Trump again

1361731297966772224 (https://twitter.com/isikoff/status/1361731297966772224?s=21)

Bring it! :lol

[boutons_deux]

The Constitution?

Gmafb

The Republicans and especially trash don't give the tiniest piece of shit about the law or the Constitution they're heading for an all-out fascist government one party forever

[boutons_deux]

Ron Johnson is saying the rape of the capital and murdering a cop is really no big deal

Somebody else wants to sue pelosi for causing the riot

[spurraider21]

So scared of running against Trump again
i am. its a lose lose.

if he wins, he gets 4 more years to fuck around and exact on blue states, etc. and with no re-election prospects, he's going to go full scorched earth.

if he loses, we probably get another insurrection and his "movement" continues to erode our democracy (hur dur we're not a direct democracy)

[Adam Lambert]

So scared of running against Trump again

I'm scared of Donald Trump being one of two viable candidates for the most important position in this country, but maybe it's just because I'm a patriot and not an America hating faggot.

[daslicer]

i am. its a lose lose.

if he wins, he gets 4 more years to fuck around and exact on blue states, etc. and with no re-election prospects, he's going to go full scorched earth.

if he loses, we probably get another insurrection and his "movement" continues to erode our democracy (hur dur we're not a direct democracy)

This is exactly how I feel. Also another election run by him just adds more gasoline to the deep racial divisions in this country.

[FrostKing]

While it is cute to see the party of woke accuse others of threatening Democracy, I don't quite understand why Democrats wouldn't prefer Trump to linger around. 3+ years is more than enough time to circle the wagons around a new & fresh candidate. While Democrats are stuck with Kamala Harris

[FrostKing]

I'm scared of Donald Trump being one of two viable candidates for the most important position in this country, but maybe it's just because I'm a patriot and not an America hating faggot.
> nationalist

> hating America

Pick one

[Adam Lambert]

> nationalist

> hating America

Pick one

False dilemma.

[DMC]

I'm scared of Donald Trump being one of two viable candidates for the most important position in this country, but maybe it's just because I'm a patriot and not an America hating faggot.

patriotism good now

[Winehole23]

patriotism good nowQuestion of competing patriotisms, they aren’t all created alike.

[FrostKing]

False dilemma.
Sell me on cancelling and destroying being Patriotic

[Adam Lambert]

Sell me on cancelling and destroying being Patriotic

Depends who.

Cancelling and destroying Donald Trump, who is an existential danger to the US and favors his own reputation and relationship with hostile world leaders over American democracy? Very patriotic.

[hater]

So scared of running against Trump again

Yup :lol

[ChumpDumper]

So scared of running against Trump again

Frankly yes because rubes like you will keep voting for him.

[FrostKing]

Depends who.

Cancelling and destroying Donald Trump, who is an existential danger to the US and favors his own reputation and relationship with hostile world leaders over American democracy? Very patriotic.
You sound like myself 20 years ago with George Bush.

You are correct it is perspective. Remember that son.

[ChumpDumper]

Yup :lol

You too.

[DMC]

Question of competing patriotisms, they aren’t all created alike.

Some pigs are more equal than others

[hater]

Frankly yes because rubes like you will keep voting for him.

Does not understand how democracy works. :lol

Lol chump

[ChumpDumper]

While it is cute to see the party of woke accuse others of threatening Democracy, I don't quite understand why Democrats wouldn't prefer Trump to linger around. 3+ years is more than enough time to circle the wagons around a new & fresh candidate. While Democrats are stuck with Kamala HarrisLeave.

[ChumpDumper]

Does not understand how democracy works. :lol

Lol chump

I understand how rubes like you vote for Trump.

[FrostKing]

Leave.
Unity and healing 2-faced

Europeans might be hateful but we are truthful

[hater]

I understand how rubes like you vote for Trump.

Should rubes get a vote in a free democracy? Yes or no?

[Winehole23]

Some pigs are more equal than othersIt’s not a controversy between two more or less identical farm animals, the patriotisms at issue seem to me substantively different. Whether one is better or neither is, is a matter of argument.

Do you consider yourself patriotic? If yes, how would you describe it to others?

[Adam Lambert]

It’s not a controversy between two more or less identical farm animals, the patriotisms at issue seem to me substantively different. Whether one is better or neither is, is a matter of argument.

Do you consider yourself patriotic? If yes, how would you describe it to others?

I love my house, so if I have someone work on it, I want them to maintain or improve upon the integrity of its overall structure.

Other people seem to just want someone to come over and tell them what a great house they have.

[FrostKing]

The 14th Amendment’s disqualification clause was mentioned during the impeachment, but never figured into it. In the last week or so there’s been more chatter about it.

Seems to be something about Trump that was anticipated by Reconstruction laws, Rep. Bennie Thompson just sued him under the KKK Act.

1361848011844820992
You have "KKK" in the recap

[FrostKing]

We grew up in the same school system. I accept and am proud

But propaganda. We talk.

[DMC]

It’s not a controversy between two more or less identical farm animals, the patriotisms at issue seem to me substantively different. Whether one is better or neither is, is a matter of argument.

Do you consider yourself patriotic? If yes, how would you describe it to others?

I don't believe I am patriotic. I don't celebrate the 4th, don't own a flag, anything of the sort. I've been all over the world and I don't think the US is the same US it was when patriotism was needed, and the other nations aren't the same ones we left (for the most part) in search of a better life. So I don't consider myself a patriot. My loyalty is toward my family and friends. I wouldn't choose an American life over the life of anyone else, and I cringe when news reports only American casualties from incidents abroad. Of course I have the normal indoctrinated response for certain ceremonies due to my time in service, but outside of that I don't have anything I'd consider to be core patriotism. I believe in our rights, but I don't hold any of it sacred outside of what normal human decency dictates.

[hater]

Patriotism shouldnt even be discussed when talking voting rights or elections :lmao

In a free democracy every citizen gets a vote. Regardless of having 0 to 100 % patriotism :lol

Not to mention patriotism is in the eye of the beholder, so its a very stupid thing to even.bring up :lmao

[Reck]

Also another election run by him just adds more gasoline to the deep racial divisions in this country.

This would be the main reason not to want him to run but nobody is afraid of him actually winning. His chances are minuscule. Specially when you’re kneecapped by his favorite social media toys.

He has no presence there whatsoever. I also doubt CNN, MSNBC would give him the air he took in 2016. It’ll be hard to reach people who aren’t Trumpies like that.

[Winehole23]

I don't believe I am patriotic. I don't celebrate the 4th, don't own a flag, anything of the sort. I've been all over the world and I don't think the US is the same US it was when patriotism was needed, and the other nations aren't the same ones we left (for the most part) in search of a better life. So I don't consider myself a patriot. My loyalty is toward my family and friends. I wouldn't choose an American life over the life of anyone else, and I cringe when news reports only American casualties from incidents abroad. Of course I have the normal indoctrinated response for certain ceremonies due to my time in service, but outside of that I don't have anything I'd consider to be core patriotism. I believe in our rights, but I don't hold any of it sacred outside of what normal human decency dictates.Thanks for your thoughttful reply.

I'm likewise bothered by the talk of the sacred that surrounds institutions and places, but I doubt that's a necessary condition of patriotism. For me it's more like the idea of the public good.
Government can better and worse, and the people can be better or worse off as a result. It's hard to see how you get there without wanting to.

An idea of good government and the public good is probably necessary to attaining both. Is that patriotism? Dunno.

[Winehole23]

Might as well post the relevant section



If two or more persons in any State or Territory conspire to prevent, by force, intimidation, or threat, any person from accepting or holding any office, trust, or place of confidence under the United States, or from discharging any duties thereof; or to induce by like means any officer of the United States to leave any State, district, or place, where his duties as an officer are required to be performed, or to injure him in his person or property on account of his lawful discharge of the duties of his office, or while engaged in the lawful discharge thereof, or to injure his property so as to molest, interrupt, hinder, or impede him in the discharge of his official duties: in any case of conspiracy set forth in this section, if one or more persons engaged therein do, or cause to be done, any act in furtherance of the object of such conspiracy, whereby another is injured in his person or property, or deprived of having and exercising any right or privilege of a citizen of the United States, the party so injured or deprived may have an action for the recovery of damages occasioned by such injury or deprivation, against any one or more of the conspirators.



https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/1985

[SnakeBoy]

I'm scared of Donald Trump being one of two viable candidates for the most important position in this country, but maybe it's just because I'm a patriot and not an America hating faggot.

What do you love most about America? Probably it's people right?

[DMC]

What do you love most about America? Probably it's people right?

Half of them maybe

[DMC]

Thanks for your thoughttful reply.

I'm likewise bothered by the talk of the sacred that surrounds institutions and places, but I doubt that's a necessary condition of patriotism. For me it's more like the idea of the public good.
Government can better and worse, and the people can be better or worse off as a result. It's hard to see how you get there without wanting to.

An idea of good government and the public good is probably necessary to attaining both. Is that patriotism? Dunno.

I believe patriotism has to do with the country that you live in and not so much the people that you live with. What if your community is illegal Mexicans? Is patriotism helping those people or is it trying to get rid of them?

[Adam Lambert]

What do you love most about America? Probably it's people right?

I don't think people in general would top the list, no, but we do have some of the smartest and most creative people in the world.

[SnakeBoy]

I don't think people in general would top the list, no, but we do have some of the smartest and most creative people in the world.

So the constitution then?

[Adam Lambert]

So the constitution then?

It's a pretty good starting point but it can be improved.

Next?

[Winehole23]

I believe patriotism has to do with the country that you live in and not so much the people that you live with. What if your community is illegal Mexicans? Is patriotism helping those people or is it trying to get rid of them?That’s a false fork. I don’t check people’s papers to decide what their lives are worth to me. That’s chauvinism.

[SnakeBoy]

It's a pretty good starting point but it can be improved.

Next?

So top of your list is not the people, not the constitution. Is it the military then?

[Adam Lambert]

So top of your list is not the people, not the constitution. Is it the military then?

Definitely not the military.

Why are you so convinced I have a ranked list in the first place?

[SnakeBoy]

Definitely not the military.

Why are you so convinced I have a ranked list in the first place?


I don't think people in general would top the list

Is it the justice system that you love the most about this country?

[Winehole23]

Is it the justice system that you love the most about this country?What do you love most about this country?

[ChumpDumper]

Unity and healing 2-faced

Europeans might be hateful but we are truthfulWe can unite better when you leave like you keep saying you will.

[SnakeBoy]

What do you love most about this country?

The memes

[ChumpDumper]

I don't believe I am patriotic. I don't celebrate the 4th, don't own a flag, anything of the sort. I've been all over the world and I don't think the US is the same US it was when patriotism was needed, and the other nations aren't the same ones we left (for the most part) in search of a better life. So I don't consider myself a patriot. My loyalty is toward my family and friends. I wouldn't choose an American life over the life of anyone else, and I cringe when news reports only American casualties from incidents abroad. Of course I have the normal indoctrinated response for certain ceremonies due to my time in service, but outside of that I don't have anything I'd consider to be core patriotism. I believe in our rights, but I don't hold any of it sacred outside of what normal human decency dictates.Muh service tho.

[Adam Lambert]

Is it the justice system that you love the most about this country?

I think the right to a fair trial in front of your peers is a great concept. The justice system itself needs a lot of work though. Particularly in terms of cost and delays.

In that second quote, you should have bolded "would" too... or we can keep doing this if you prefer.

[ChumpDumper]

Should rubes get a vote in a free democracy? Yes or no?Of course.

Just not for Trump anymore, rube.

[SnakeBoy]

I think the right to a fair trial in front of your peers is a great concept. The justice system itself needs a lot of work though. Particularly in terms of cost and delays.

In that second quote, you should have bolded "would" too... or we can keep doing this if you prefer.

Or you could just say what you love most about this country. It shouldn't be difficult for someone as patriotic as you.

[spurraider21]

> nationalist

> hating America

Pick one
nationalism and patriotism are different things, arent they?

[Adam Lambert]

Or you could just say what you love most about this country. It shouldn't be difficult for someone as patriotic as you.

What do you love most about your parents?

I don't subscribe to the idea that to love something you must have a ranked order of the things you love the most.

[FrostKing]

We can unite better when you leave like you keep saying you will.
I'm asylum. Re-educate me

Your ideology is full of ironies and doubled standards. I remember when I was young and naive voting blue

[Winehole23]

The memesjust in it for the lulz

[ChumpDumper]

I'm asylumWhat does that even mean?

[SnakeBoy]

just in it for the lulz

I leave the solving the world's problems by posting on a sports forum to you

[SnakeBoy]

What do you love most about your parents?

I don't subscribe to the idea that to love something you must have a ranked order of the things you love the most.

For a strong patriot you sure have a hard time saying what you love about the country. Is it the flag that you love?

[ChumpDumper]

:lol Snakeboi demanding answers from behind his stonewall.

[Winehole23]

I leave the solving the world's problems by posting on a sports forum to youThis isn't a website for political organizing and action, it's a message board. Feel free to join the discussion at any time

Btw. just curious, do you jeer at posters in the Spurs Forum for second guessing coaches and players? Mock them for "trying to fix" basketball and the San Antonio Spurs?

[Adam Lambert]

For a strong patriot you sure have a hard time saying what you love about the country. Is it the flag that you love?

You've been asking me what I love the most, which is arbitrary, and now you're moving the goalpost to suggest I don't love anything about my country.

I don't have to have a list, ranked or not. I live here, I was born here, I have friends and family and work here, and I'm committed to doing what I can to make this country as good as it can be, especially for people who are less fortunate. I get mad when people make this country worse and I don't find it lol hilarious to think about one of those people running for president.

[SnakeBoy]

Feel free to join the discussion at any time


I did. I said libs are scared to run against Trump again and libs agreed that they are.

[Winehole23]

I did. I said libs are scared to run against Trump again and libs agreed that they are.well, feel free to rejoin at any time. getting online to tease other posters about talking about stuff online is a tiresome bore and adds nothing.

[Adam Lambert]

And what kind of fucking dork loves a flag? Says a lot that you couldn't think of more than five other things before that guess :lol

[Winehole23]

I did. I said libs are scared to run against Trump again and libs agreed that they are.Do you make fun of posters in the Sports forums for trying to solve the world's problems?

See how silly that sounds?

[SnakeBoy]

Do you make fun of posters in the Sports forums for trying to solve the world's problems?

See how silly that sounds?

I don't post in the Sports forums. That would be silly.

[Winehole23]

I don't post in the Sports forums. That would be silly.It's just as silly to do it here.

[ElNono]

Unity and healing 2-faced

Europeans might be hateful but we are truthful

As a Europe passport carrying citizen, I'd like you not to put all Euros in the same bag.

The whole hateful thing is mere projection.

[FrostKing]

As a Europe passport carrying citizen, I'd like you not to put all Euros in the same bag.

The whole hateful thing is mere projection.
Your point is made but am I wrong? Europe has shown to have a different expectation & standard

[ElNono]

Your point is made but am I wrong? Europe has shown to have a different expectation & standard

Europe is a big place, and there's perhaps as much diversity overall there now as there is in America today. Obviously, there are some countries that have been slow adopting that, much like some states in the US.

But that's why there's no point in generalizing.

[FrostKing]

Europe is a big place, and there's perhaps as much diversity overall there now as there is in America today. Obviously, there are some countries that have been slow adopting that, much like some states in the US.

But that's why there's no point in generalizing.
Agreed. More in agreement between in the EU or USA Congress?

[ElNono]

Agreed. More in agreement between in the EU or USA Congress?

It's different. The European Union is really a union of sovereign countries. Brexit has shown that secession from the Union is possible there, something is not really legal in the US, so it's a bit different.

On the other hand, there's no point in an European Union if mutual agreement can't be the norm.

[koriwhat]

The 14th Amendment’s disqualification clause was mentioned during the impeachment, but never figured into it. In the last week or so there’s been more chatter about it.

Seems to be something about Trump that was anticipated by Reconstruction laws, Rep. Bennie Thompson just sued him under the KKK Act.

1361848011844820992

Poster boy for TDS.

[Winehole23]

There's a lawsuit in North Carolina challenging Madison Cawthorn's eligibility for reelection on 14th Amendment grounds. His lawyer (James Bopp of Citizens United fame) has cited the 1872 Amnesty of former Confederates in his defense.

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/nation-politics/legal-challenge-to-gop-rep-madison-cawthorn-asks-who-is-an-insurrectionist/

[Winehole23]

4th Circuit holds that people may be barred prospectively from seeking political office under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, for supporting insurrection or rebellion.


We holdonly that the 1872 Amnesty Act does not categorically exempt all future rebels andUSCA4 Appeal: 22-1251 Doc: 113 Filed: 05/24/2022 Pg: 28 of 7329insurrectionists from the political disabilities that otherwise would be created by Section 3of the Fourteenth Amendment. The judgment of the district court is thereforeREVERSED, VACATED,AND REMANDEDhttps://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000180-f719-d5d6-a1d4-ffd924b10000