About USC's defense...

[tlongII]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2219577

Pac-10 offenses impact USC's defensive numbersBy Ted Miller
Special to ESPN.com


USC coach Pete Carroll focuses on only what matters. That's one of the big reasons his team is riding a 31-game winning streak and is looking for a third consecutive national title.

He's not going to get caught up in a debate on the merits of the Bowl Championship Series system. He's not going to promote his players for individual awards. He's not going to look ahead.

And he's not going to defend his defense.

Not much, at least.

"Look at the numbers," he said.



Otto Greule Jr/Getty Images
USC safety Darnell Bing is a finalist for the Thorpe Award.That's what lots of folks have been doing, but they've done so to point out what many believe is USC's Achilles' heel.

The Trojans, owners of perhaps the best offense in college football history, rank 41st in the nation in total defense and 31st in scoring defense.

Meanwhile, the nation's other two unbeatens, No. 2 Texas and No. 4 Alabama, own defenses ranked in the top seven in yards and points surrendered.

SEC adherents are particularly proud that the conference boasts seven of the nation's top-26 defenses in scoring and yards allowed.

Ah, but here we enter the whole defensive chicken-and-egg debate, and Carroll can't resist a brief observation.

He notes that six Pac-10 teams rank in the nation's top 20 in scoring. Only one SEC team and two Big 12 teams rank in the top 25.

"That statement alone -- it's ridiculous that the [Pac-10] offenses are that good," Carroll said. "It isn't about the defenses. It's the offenses that are so proficient."

Ergo: USC's defense looks vulnerable because it plays in the Pac-10, and Alabama and Texas' defenses look good because they don't.

“ As I watch the tape, I don't see a lot of big numbers. I don't see it. I don't agree with that at all, that that's their Achilles' heel. This defensive front is as good as you're going to find anywhere in college football. ”
— Cal coach Jeff Tedford on USC's defense

While the rest of the nation struggles with offensive algebra, the Pac-10 has moved on to calculus, Carroll's theory goes. That's why, for example, LSU gave up 560 yards and 31 points to Arizona State but stymied its other seven, non-Pac-10 opponents to the tune of 258 yards and 11.4 points per game.

USC pounded out 631 yards against Arizona State in its 38-28 win, nearly 200 yards more than LSU produced, and held the Sun Devils to 415 yards.

It's not just that the Pac-10 throws the ball better than any other conference. It also dominates on the ground. Six conference tailbacks rank among the nation's top 25 in yards rushing per game.

When All-America teams are announced at the end of the season, as many as eight Pac-10 players will merit first-team consideration, not including Oregon State kicker Alexis Serna.

So if USC's giving up 20.6 points and 348 yards per game looks bad, it might be because the Trojans don't get to play Oklahoma State, Oklahoma, Baylor, Tennessee, Kentucky, South Carolina, Kansas, Mississippi, Nebraska or Mississippi State -- offenses ranking between 92nd and 112th in the nation, a nether region uninhabited by the Pac-10.

California coach Jeff Tedford's offense ranks 21st in the country, but he doesn't exactly sound like he's licking his chops in expectation of a visit from the Trojans on Saturday.

Achilles' heal? Achilles was Greek.

"As I watch the tape, I don't see a lot of big numbers," Tedford said. "I don't see it. I don't agree with that at all, that that's their Achilles' heel. This defensive front is as good as you're going to find anywhere in college football."

That said, the Trojans lost a lot of talent from a 2004 defense that ranked in the nation's top 10 in nearly every statistical category. Beyond the talent drain, injuries have been epidemic.

Five starters were scheduled to return, but one, cornerback Eric Wright, left the team because of off-field issues, and another, linebacker Dallas Sartz, was lost in the second game of the season to a shoulder injury. Wright's replacement, cornerback Terrell Thomas, also went down for the season with a knee injury in that same game.

Two other starters, sophomore linebacker Keith Rivers and cornerback John Walker, have missed recent action because of injury and won't play against Cal. USC will start more sophomores (five) than seniors (four) on defense Saturday.

Still, that impetuous youth should be an easy target for provoking defensive defensiveness. Shouldn't the Trojans, a prideful bunch of former prep All-Americans, take exception to those who insist they are a weak link?

"What people say is not really a big issue," said junior strong safety Darnell Bing, a finalist for the Thorpe Award.

When asked about the defensive-minded SEC (or is it the offensively challenged SEC?), Bing's machismo doesn't seem to activate.

"We don't watch teams we don't have to watch," he said.

Added junior linebacker Oscar Lua, "Every SEC team we've faced, we've beaten."

Lua is not referring to the Trojans home-and-home sweep of Auburn, which included a 23-0 stomping at Jordan-Hare Stadium in 2003. He's specifically alluding to a 70-17 victory posted over Arkansas on Sept. 17.

A week later, Alabama bested the Razorbacks 24-13.

So, clearly, the Crimson Tide's defense is better than the Trojans'.

"The problem with SC's defense is their offense is so good," Stanford coach Walt Harris said. "SC's defense is maybe a notch below [its offense], but I think every Pac-10 coach would love to have SC's defensive players playing for them."

Carroll enjoys watching his offense average 594 yards and 50 points per outing, despite Matt Leinart and company's spending many fourth quarters with a cup of water on the bench.

But Carroll's roots are on defense. It hurts not to dominate.

When he looks at the national scoreboard and sees a 6-3 victory over a Tennessee team that gave up 41 points to Notre Dame or a 13-10 win over an Ole Miss squad that lost to Wyoming for a second consecutive year, he does get a bit jealous of Alabama's stingy defense.

"For us to be allowing around 20 points a game, that's not a number that might make you real proud," he said. "As a defensive coach, I don't like it very much. I like those scores like Alabama plays."

[KewlKat00]

He notes that six Pac-10 teams rank in the nation's top 20 in scoring. Only one SEC team and two Big 12 teams rank in the top 25.

"That statement alone -- it's ridiculous that the [Pac-10] offenses are that good," Carroll said. "It isn't about the defenses. It's the offenses that are so proficient."

Ergo: USC's defense looks vulnerable because it plays in the Pac-10, and Alabama and Texas' defenses look good because they don't.


While the rest of the nation struggles with offensive algebra, the Pac-10 has moved on to calculus, Carroll's theory goes. That's why, for example, LSU gave up 560 yards and 31 points to Arizona State but stymied its other seven, non-Pac-10 opponents to the tune of 258 yards and 11.4 points per game.

USC pounded out 631 yards against Arizona State in its 38-28 win, nearly 200 yards more than LSU produced, and held the Sun Devils to 415 yards.


So if USC's giving up 20.6 points and 348 yards per game looks bad, it might be because the Trojans don't get to play Oklahoma State, Oklahoma, Baylor, Tennessee, Kentucky, South Carolina, Kansas, Mississippi, Nebraska or Mississippi State -- offenses ranking between 92nd and 112th in the nation, a nether region uninhabited by the Pac-10.


Added junior linebacker Oscar Lua, "Every SEC team we've faced, we've beaten."

Lua is not referring to the Trojans home-and-home sweep of Auburn, which included a 23-0 stomping at Jordan-Hare Stadium in 2003. He's specifically alluding to a 70-17 victory posted over Arkansas on Sept. 17.

A week later, Alabama bested the Razorbacks 24-13.

good article. i read it yesterday, but was too lazy to post. i think there are some good points that people don't take into consideration. i don't think our defense is spectacular or necessarily better than the alabamas, etc. but it is definitely above average and alot better than people realize.

i think we might see some of that this weekend vs. cal. that said, i am off to san francisco for this weekend's game.

happy college football watching!

[cecil collins]

this runs in about the same line of thinking that produces such notions as the teams in the sec have really great defenses

True dat.

[Horry For 3!]

Texas Defense > USC Defense

[SA Gunslinger]

Texas Defense > USC Defense

I think that's a fair assessment.

The Longhorns matchup very well with SC. But the fact that SC basically is playing at home and are the defending the National Champs, the Rose Bowl has all the makings of being even better than last year's game.

I hope everything works out and we get to watch it.

[SWC Bonfire]

Texas' biggest weakness at the beginning of the season was special teams. Seemingly they have improved kickoff/punt coverage since Ohio St., but they also haven't matched up against Reggie Bush yet.

[NoMoneyDown]

I know this is a thread about USC's defense, but here's something interesting about their offense ...

USC managed only 34 points vs. ND's unheralded defense (#47 PPG, #79 YPG).
USC managed only 35 points vs. Cal's unheralded defense (#36 PPG, #51 YPG).

[SWC Bonfire]

I know this is a thread about USC's defense, but here's something interesting about their offense ...

USC managed only 34 points vs. ND's unheralded defense (#47 PPG, #79 YPG).
USC managed only 35 points vs. Cal's unheralded defense (#36 PPG, #51 YPG).

If the opposing offense keeps your offense off the field, it makes it hard to throw down 50+, I don't care who you are.

[tlongII]

I know this is a thread about USC's defense, but here's something interesting about their offense ...

USC managed only 34 points vs. ND's unheralded defense (#47 PPG, #79 YPG).
USC managed only 35 points vs. Cal's unheralded defense (#36 PPG, #51 YPG).


The thing people need to remember about the ND is game is that Notre Dame had a bye week leading up to it. Charlie Weis had two weeks to prepare his team for USC...and USC still won.

[FromWayDowntown]

Those games are also proof that USC's offense put up 69 points in big rivalry games, on the road, against ranked opponents with better-than-average defenses.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Even skeptics would have to admit that

USC Offense > UT Defense
UT Offense > USC Defense


But the degree of USC's offense greater than UTD is smaller than UTO > USCD
So on paper, the horns should have as good a chance as any to prevail :)

[hussker]

^^^There was One?^^^

(Extra credit, name that movie quote and who gave it...)

[KewlKat00]

not saying that sc has as good of a defense as a texas or an alabama... but i think their defense is underrated. they are getting better exponentially too. this last weekend against cal for pretty much the whole game we played with two true freshman and one true sophomore linebacker (two previous injuries plus an injured backup in the 1st). anyway, they held cal to 299 yards of total offense, kept them out of the endzone until 1:34 remaining (including a goal line stand), got 4 interceptions and 2 fumbles, held them to 1 of 8 on 3rd down and 0 of 1 on 4th down. ayoob has been bad, but not this bad.

[KewlKat00]

Sacramento State W 41-3 16 69 395 41 - 212 10-28-183 2-2 29:57 5 40
Washington W 56-17 26 66 557 39 - 286 17-27-271 1-0 29:42 6 65
Illinois W 35-20 18 53 415 35 - 294 8-18-121 0-0 25:15 7 57
New Mexico State W 41-13 29 71 595 45 - 311 17-26-284 0-0 31:34 7 60
Arizona W 28-0 18 65 331 44 - 194 14-21-137 1-1 34:06 5 39
UCLA L 40-47 26 76 545 41 - 330 18-35-215 1-0 34:34 8 66
Oregon State L 20-23 18 74 315 34 - 75 14-40-240 2-3 24:58 5 65
Washington State W 42-38 24 83 548 48 - 274 19-35-274 2-1 35:13 4 40
Oregon L 20-27 14 65 301 39 - 213 10-26-88 3-1 30:06 5 40
USC L 10-35 17 54 299 31 - 167 13-23-132 4-2 23:57 7 58

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

usc's d roughly equal to oregon and oregon state's d?
that's not saying much

in total yards, yes. but what about the other factors? and don't forget that a nice chunk of those yards came on the last drive that meant absolutely nothing.

[tlongII]

Sacramento State W 41-3 16 69 395 41 - 212 10-28-183 2-2 29:57 5 40
Washington W 56-17 26 66 557 39 - 286 17-27-271 1-0 29:42 6 65
Illinois W 35-20 18 53 415 35 - 294 8-18-121 0-0 25:15 7 57
New Mexico State W 41-13 29 71 595 45 - 311 17-26-284 0-0 31:34 7 60
Arizona W 28-0 18 65 331 44 - 194 14-21-137 1-1 34:06 5 39
UCLA L 40-47 26 76 545 41 - 330 18-35-215 1-0 34:34 8 66
Oregon State L 20-23 18 74 315 34 - 75 14-40-240 2-3 24:58 5 65
Washington State W 42-38 24 83 548 48 - 274 19-35-274 2-1 35:13 4 40
Oregon L 20-27 14 65 301 39 - 213 10-26-88 3-1 30:06 5 40
USC L 10-35 17 54 299 31 - 167 13-23-132 4-2 23:57 7 58

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

usc's d roughly equal to oregon and oregon state's d?
that's not saying much


Oregon's D is very good. They have a nose tackle, Haloti Ngata, who will be a top ten pick in the draft. Do you remember the last time Oregon played Texas?

[KewlKat00]

do you remember the last time a pac-10 team played a big-12 team?

ucla vs. ou? before that, sc vs. ou?

[FromWayDowntown]

Sacramento State W 41-3 16 69 395 41 - 212 10-28-183 2-2 29:57 5 40
Washington W 56-17 26 66 557 39 - 286 17-27-271 1-0 29:42 6 65
Illinois W 35-20 18 53 415 35 - 294 8-18-121 0-0 25:15 7 57
New Mexico State W 41-13 29 71 595 45 - 311 17-26-284 0-0 31:34 7 60
Arizona W 28-0 18 65 331 44 - 194 14-21-137 1-1 34:06 5 39
UCLA L 40-47 26 76 545 41 - 330 18-35-215 1-0 34:34 8 66
Oregon State L 20-23 18 74 315 34 - 75 14-40-240 2-3 24:58 5 65
Washington State W 42-38 24 83 548 48 - 274 19-35-274 2-1 35:13 4 40
Oregon L 20-27 14 65 301 39 - 213 10-26-88 3-1 30:06 5 40
USC L 10-35 17 54 299 31 - 167 13-23-132 4-2 23:57 7 58

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

usc's d roughly equal to oregon and oregon state's d?
that's not saying much

Just that USC's defense is as good as the defense of another top 10 team (Oregon is #10 in every poll known to man and has only one loss - to USC).

By the way, that Oregon game does say something about USC's defense, which spotted Oregon 13 points in the first 21 minutes, only to shut them out over the last 39 minutes. Oregon is 17th in the nation in scoring offense and USC, playing on the road, held them 20 points under their season average. That's not really scoffworthy.

[FromWayDowntown]

ucla vs. ou? before that, sc vs. ou?

I don't think elpimpo was talking about those games. :lol

[Brutalis]

Alright I have to be a Razorback fan now.

#1 The game was over at halftime. Houston Nutt said he had spoke to Carroll about both of them playing 2nd and some 3rd string with him agreeing.
#2 Not only did Carroll put in his 2nd string, it was just for the defense.
#3 Announced during the game that Arkansas team flag was stolen, the crowd cheers and Carroll subs in Matt again.
#4 Carroll proceeds to run up the score on Arkansas 3rd string offensive line, and 2nd string offensive unit showing little class and flat out lying.

Arkansas was irate about this. Everybody including at least 1,000 SEC fans from the forum I post on. It showed Carroll and USC are playing for themselves, as if running up the score as best you can with 2 minutes left in the game shows anything other than what a liar is, and bad sportsmanship.

Reportedly, the USC coaching staff apolygized to Arkansas athletic director Frank Broyles for the misconduct USC fans showed and for the playcalling against our subs.

Yeah right.

Not only do I know my Hog-mollies are bad this year, our coaching staff is why. Houston Nutt who calls his own plays... everything. Once Arkansas welcome Mitch Mustain, the nations #1 rated QB, things will start to change as Nutt will be forced out of his contract by fans, and media.

Never the less.... USC is made up of nothing but loose words and glass.

"I hope my friends over at Texas get USC in the big game, I hope they show them what's what" - Frank Broyles

on next years USC @ Arkansas rematch.

"Well I'm sure our fans will act cordial and just as we try to unseed USC."

YEAH RIGHT. Arkansas fans when drunk are some of the most ignorant people since those Horns fans that got their ass beat in downtown Little Rock after we owned Texas in the Cotton Bowl a few years back. I mean complete ignorance.

Arkansas is rated the #4 party school of America. And you think our fans are going to be cordial?

This game is purposely going to be played dirty by Arkansas. Win or lose, it won't be pretty for USC's ranking.


...... in other notes...

Arkansas played at Alabama and should have won. Again bad play calling forced punts and mistakes. After halftime, it was over.

Arkansas should have beat Georgia. The refs called back a pass play that ultimately set up the winning drive. After looking back, even Bulldog fans would tell you that call was wrong. Oh well.

The only good coming out of this year is a running back named Darren McFadden. Never has the spotlight been so wound around one guy. Every team we have played this year said they didn't know what to do to stop him. They spoke of future heisman talks, and worries. Mr. McFadden is a stud, and not even Matt Jones had this much stardom as a freshman. Arkansas has always been a running team, and always been known for our depth at RB, but finally, we have that special player that can turn things around.

Not a Matt Jones who cant throw. Not a Cedric Cobbs that cant stay healthy. A true freshman breaking school records left and right waiting on the nations top HS QB so Hog fans can have something to cheer about again.


I hope.

[KewlKat00]

I don't think elpimpo was talking about those games. :lol

i know he was referring to the cal/texas tech game. but their seniors almost voted not to play in that game. i could care less about cal so in a way it serves them right.

or maybe he was referring to the texas/wsu holiday bowl in 2003?

[KewlKat00]

Alright I have to be a Razorback fan now.

#1 The game was over at halftime. Houston Nutt said he had spoke to Carroll about both of them playing 2nd and some 3rd string with him agreeing.
#2 Not only did Carroll put in his 2nd string, it was just for the defense.
#3 Announced during the game that Arkansas team flag was stolen, the crowd cheers and Carroll subs in Matt again.
#4 Carroll proceeds to run up the score on Arkansas 3rd string offensive line, and 2nd string offensive unit showing little class and flat out lying.

i don't know about the agreement, but after looking at the play-by-play (http://usctrojans.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2005-2006/uscark.html). i see that leinart played the first 2 series of the second half. definitely one more than needed. i think that one series with the starters in the second half would be okay in that situation. not having them play the second half is kinda weird. anyway, i don't believe leinart played the rest of the way. i am pretty sure it was all booty and then the walk-on mcdonald.

as for the flag being stolen and the crowd cheering. who knows. i think most schools fans would do that (didn't yale do that to harvard last year?).


It showed Carroll and USC are playing for themselves, as if running up the score as best you can with 2 minutes left in the game shows anything other than what a liar is, and bad sportsmanship.


the last score with a few minutes remaining was by a walk on quarterback to a 4th string tight end. they got to that point by the runs of the 3rd-5th string tb/rb. but who knows if that was that touchdown play was the final play called or if it just happened. i don't think anyone actually thought they would score.

[j-6]

I think tlong is talking about the Holiday Bowl loss to Oregon in 2000. That year UT went 0-2 against the Pac-10 with a loss to Stanford as well.

[Brutalis]

i don't know about the agreement, but after looking at the play-by-play (http://usctrojans.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2005-2006/uscark.html). i see that leinart played the first 2 series of the second half. definitely one more than needed. i think that one series with the starters in the second half would be okay in that situation. not having them play the second half is kinda weird. anyway, i don't believe leinart played the rest of the way. i am pretty sure it was all booty and then the walk-on mcdonald.

as for the flag being stolen and the crowd cheering. who knows. i think most schools fans would do that (didn't yale do that to harvard last year?).



the last score with a few minutes remaining was by a walk on quarterback to a 4th string tight end. they got to that point by the runs of the 3rd-5th string tb/rb. but who knows if that was that touchdown play was the final play called or if it just happened. i don't think anyone actually thought they would score.


I didnt mean to sound like Matt played the rest of the game. He didn't. They just piled up some points and then the subs came in.

Maybe the subs were playing hard vs the subs. Maybe that was the deal and Arkansas still got owned for it. Who knows. With Houston Nutt calling the shots for us I could fully understand how USC accidently scored. Over, and over, and over.

And yeah, Harvard and Yale are rivals. Bitter history and tradition,.. in the small little Ivy league. I can understand doing stunts like that in rival games. But USC scheduled Arkansas because they along with several teams out there feel some need to play the SEC. If it's personal gain, or conference bragging rights, whatever I dunno. But Arkansas was the fool going to USC after Texas didn't want to continue games. We should have played a school closer, and perhaps not ranked #1 with a long winning streak during "rebuilding" years. I would have liked to play Oklahoma, A&M, Florida State, so on. Anyways, stealing a flag and causing a numerous fights then even showing it off on the jumbotron egging them on is just not classy.

USC must have been just clicking. I don't think anyone but Carroll knows for sure. I never have liked USC and maybe the whole thing rubs me the wrong way. But if USC keeps kicking, and kicks over Texas too. I'm sure Arkansas, a few SEC schools that are "friends" of Arkansas, and some Texas fans would love to see an upset next season when they visit Razorback Stadium.

[KewlKat00]

I didnt mean to sound like Matt played the rest of the game. He didn't. They just piled up some points and then the subs came in.

no, i understand. i definitely think he played one series too many.


Maybe the subs were playing hard vs the subs. Maybe that was the deal and Arkansas still got owned for it. Who knows. With Houston Nutt calling the shots for us I could fully understand how USC accidently scored. Over, and over, and over.

the offense was clicking in that game. it was just one of those games. the freak 28 points in the 1st quarter still surprise me. there is no way anyone saw that coming.


But USC scheduled Arkansas because they along with several teams out there feel some need to play the SEC. If it's personal gain, or conference bragging rights, whatever I dunno. But Arkansas was the fool going to USC after Texas didn't want to continue games. We should have played a school closer, and perhaps not ranked #1 with a long winning streak during "rebuilding" years.

when was this game scheduled? i mean i don't think anyone expected usc to keep winning as long as they have. and i don't think anyone expected arkansas to be rebuilding this much now. i don't know.

but don't you like to see different matchups like this? i, personally, like how we have played a variety of schools over the past few years.


Anyways, stealing a flag and causing a numerous fights then even showing it off on the jumbotron egging them on is just not classy.

i really am sorry that was the case. i remember seeing the flag on the jumbotron, that probably shouldn't have been the case, but i didn't really think of it as egging them on. you probably don't believe me, but i have never seen anything like that, even when ucla comes to the coliseum. i don't see it happening over and over in the future. not that this is an excuse, but it was a night game and i know there were alot of drunk people there, first home game, wanting to do something... every school has them... but i hope you don't think that's the same for all of us.


I'm sure Arkansas, a few SEC schools that are "friends" of Arkansas, and some Texas fans would love to see an upset next season when they visit Razorback Stadium.

everyone loves an upset. who doesn't cheer for the underdog. next season is going to be a different story. no doubt we will lose. i could see it being to arkansas. see, aren't you glad we schedule these games? it's good for both schools.

[Brutalis]

Well last year was honestly, a complete failure. It was not a rebuilding year. Matt Jones acted as if his passing game has matured, and in his senior year nothing changed, the SEC and pretty much the country knew how to stop him. Nutt didn't want to change his offense, his playcalling. He expected Matt to just shine and win games, and that of course didn't happen. Matt did shine, but the formula used was predictable and poorly executed.

MJ obviously wasn't a pocker thrower. He doesn't have it in him. Houston tried to force it with all the options, counters and playfakes imaginable. But everybody knew Matt Jones was going to juke and jive and run it. Just check out what he's doing for Jacksonville.

Any team can have talent. It's really about how you use it. Houston can pick them out, he knows how to recruit well. But he lacks skills in developing them. We've had some NFL players come through us, and Houston has failed them over and over. Matt could have been better if taught different. If Houston had used Cedric Cobbs with more brains he wouldn't have tore his legs up ultimately killing his high profile. Ken Hamlin was awesome. Carlos Hall. Kenoy Kennedy. Those three could have been even better IMO with a better coach in college.

Blah blah blah.

If Nutt is gone. OR. We get a man named Butch Davis as offensive cor., things might swing Arkansas' way next year vrs USC. It would be a huge freshman test if Mustain isn't a redshirt. Nutt needs to stop calling the shots on the field.

I think USC will win regardless. But in a much closer score.

[samikeyp]

Butch Davis coaches the Hogs in 2006.

[Brutalis]

Butch Davis coaches the Hogs in 2006.
That'd be nice but doesn't look like it'll happen. Nutt is on contract for several more years and Frank Broyles isn't going to buy him out.

There is buzz in the air though that Tyson Chicken will buy him out as long as Butch Davis comes in to replace.

The mostly likely thing right now is Houston hires Butch as his offensive coach.