Official San Antonio Spurs 2021 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

[tonight...you]

Man some of y’all have severe PTSD from Kawhi leaving lmao acting like every star will leave because we’re a small market
Maybe.
Let's see what the future shows us.

[tbdog]

Those who follow draftees, are there any forwards at 12 that Spurs should target, or are the best players available guard's?

[Mr. Body]

Those who follow draftees, are there any forwards at 12 that Spurs should target, or are the best players available guard's?

Sure -- Franz Wagner, Josh Giddey, Ziaire Williams, Keon Johnson, Corey Kispert, Jalen Johnson. Some of them should be available in that area.

[Mnky]

The video I've posted earlier contained 50% lowlights.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smdpq8GCALU

Here's a full game for people's reference.

IMO, Manu himself didn't develop his passing until later in his career.

People ignoring his ball handling ability is perplexing to me. I get the shot comparisons with Klay, but everything else? Nope.

Ignoring? I don't see anyone ignoring it. Its basketball...dribbling is expected, especially if your selling point is offense. He can dribble and get to the basket. He has that CP3 type sense of moving his body in position to shield his shot especially downlow. This is where the decision making becomes an issue. He dribbles himself into trouble quite a bit for a no.1 option on offense.

[Biggems]

Normally the draft is earlier, too. You can't start FA season when some of the FAs may still be playing. Tha just doesn't work.

You aren't understanding. In a normal year the season ends around June 23. Start FA on July 1. Then, have the draft near the end of July. Then, do the Summer Leagues in August.

[Mr. Body]

You aren't understanding. In a normal year the season ends around June 23. Start FA on July 1. Then, have the draft near the end of July. Then, do the Summer Leagues in August.

Hey, big guy, the draft was June 20 in 2019. It was June 21 in 2018. June 22 in 2017. June 23 in 2016...

Is there anything else you want to be wrong about?

[EmantheSpursFan]

Sengun reminds me of a modern day Luis Scola.

Murray,White
Vassell, Lonnie
Keldon, FA (Kelly Oubre?)
Sengun, FA (Lauri?)
Jokob, Eubanks

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Sengun reminds me of a modern day Luis Scola.

Murray,White
Vassell, Lonnie
Keldon, FA (Kelly Oubre?)
Sengun, FA (Lauri?)
Jokob, Eubanks

Sengun doesn’t play like Scola at all. He’s strictly a center. If anyone’s drafting him to play him closer to the perimeter he’ll bust. All of his strengths are when he gets the ball around the rim or top of the key from where he can pass pretty well.

[EmantheSpursFan]

https://youtu.be/TcgEonp2Uf8

I remember Scola being a low post beast. Sengun has already shown high level low post moves and decent IQ. Your right doesn't have a perimeter game yet but he's also only 18 and by all accounts he has the work ethic to.be something special.

[R. DeMurre]

https://www.nba.com/hornets/video/teams/hornets/2021/07/03/365529/1625331311039-210703-chrisduarte-365529

Hornets have been uploading interviews with prospects they have worked out.

- As has been discussed already, Chris Duarte’s next workout is in San Antonio. He confirmed it in this interview too.

- Jaden Springer interview also up. Just previously worked out with the Pacers. Pick #11 and pick #13. Hmmm…

- Keon Johnson and James Bouknight also worked out for them. Bouknight interview is the only one not posted.
‘Keon coy on where his next workouts are.

Springer vs Duarte is an interesting discussion, though I still find it kind of mind boggling that Springer won't be Duarte's age until 2026! That's two years after the next presidential election.

[John B]

Furthermore, cultural fit is a massive concern for the Spurs right now. They need a player who doesn't mind staying in San Antonio, indeed will thrive there. Plus, someone who will fit in with the young core. As mentioned, team chemistry is a major plus right now. By most accounts, Duarte loved playing in Oregon, is a Spanish-speaker, is a well-rounded individual who just wants to play basketball. He has the makings of a great teammate. Again, once White was drafted, he quickly became the key player in the rotation -- the team suffered when he was out (and still does). With Duarte you have an analogue, a guy who does many of the same things, if in different ways, and has the polish that Dejounte Murray only started achieving this last year.

I would add, a player who can immediately contribute on a Rookie contract!

[John B]

https://youtu.be/TcgEonp2Uf8

I remember Scola being a low post beast. Sengun has already shown high level low post moves and decent IQ. Your right doesn't have a perimeter game yet but he's also only 18 and by all accounts he has the work ethic to.be something special.

Is it possible Scola was just 6’9” and Sengun 6’10” and both 240 lbs? Wikipedia must be shitting me :lol

Scola could’ve been one of Spurs favorite players. The guy’s a beast. It still hurts :(

[Dejounte]

Ignoring? I don't see anyone ignoring it. Its basketball...dribbling is expected, especially if your selling point is offense. He can dribble and get to the basket. He has that CP3 type sense of moving his body in position to shield his shot especially downlow. This is where the decision making becomes an issue. He dribbles himself into trouble quite a bit for a no.1 option on offense.

My point was when comparisons were being made to strictly Klay, it undersells Duarte’s dribbling skills because Klay never dribbles the ball as much as Duarte does nor does he have the same dribbling skills.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/hpbasketball/status/1411535700990644227?s=21

I see people bring up the Suns on how to build a team, but not the Bucks. How convenient.

People need to realize how their brain works. It’s always about readily being able to accept one truth that suits their views, than the full truth, which is displayed right in front of them.

[John B]

https://twitter.com/hpbasketball/status/1411535700990644227?s=21

I see people bring up the Suns on how to build a team, but not the Bucks. How convenient.

People need to realize how their brain works. It’s always about readily being able to accept one truth that suits their views, than the full truth, which is displayed right in front of them.

Maybe because the core of Sun’s roster is from their own draft, plus a big trade to acquire CP3, and added around him to complete. While with the Bucks, only Giannis was their pick from your list, 8th years ago and the rest they picked throughout the years. It wasn’t as simple nor a direct result of a big trade, and it took them years.

[The Truth #6]

Springer vs Duarte is an interesting discussion, though I still find it kind of mind boggling that Springer won't be Duarte's age until 2026! That's two years after the next presidential election.

I am ok with either one, with the naive hope that picking one of them would prompt a trade to balance the roster. Springer seems ready enough to get some sparse early minutes. Otherwise, it feels like Moody, imo, will be the likely target.

[Uriel]

I’m torn between Wagner and Jalen Johnson. Wagner seems like a low-risk, medium-reward prospect, while Johnson is medium-risk, high-reward.

[Uriel]

Scola thread!

[Mnky]

Maybe because the core of Sun’s roster is from their own draft, plus a big trade to acquire CP3, and added around him to complete. While with the Bucks, only Giannis was their pick from your list, 8th years ago and the rest they picked throughout the years. It wasn’t as simple nor a direct result of a big trade, and it took them years.

I think the bigger picture is that you don't need top five lottery picks to get a championship team. Only one of them was drafted higher than the spurs have picked the last two seasons.

[mo7888]

I’m torn between Wagner and Jalen Johnson. Wagner seems like a low-risk, medium-reward prospect, while Johnson is medium-risk, high-reward.

I don't see it that way at all.... I see JJ as high risk-hogh reward and Wagner as low risk-high reward.

[John B]

I think the bigger picture is that you don't need top five lottery picks to get a championship team. Only one of them was drafted higher than the spurs have picked the last two seasons.

I get it and that’s astonishing. But the process of assembling that team was nothing every other team has not done, each year bringing someone. Can you really pinpoint exactly when they envisioned that roster? With the Suns, it was more decisive. They drafted wisely with Booker and Ayton, then made a big move to bring CP3 to push it to the next level.

But not to discredit both teams, they were lucky with teams having injuries with key players. More likelihood, it would be the Clips/Lakers vs Nets in the Finals. :toast

[Prime BEEF]

I’m torn between Wagner and Jalen Johnson. Wagner seems like a low-risk, medium-reward prospect, while Johnson is medium-risk, high-reward.
I see JJ as high risk medium reward and I see Wagner as low risk medium reward

[Dejounte]

I get it and that’s astonishing. But the process of assembling that team was nothing every other team has not done, each year bringing someone. Can you really pinpoint exactly when they envisioned that roster? With the Suns, it was more decisive. They drafted wisely with Booker and Ayton, then made a big move to bring CP3 to push it to the next level.

But not to discredit both teams, they were lucky with teams having injuries with key players. More likelihood, it would be the Clips/Lakers vs Nets in the Finals. :toast

And there are many times other teams have done what the Suns have done and failed. See how your brain works?

[John B]

With Bucks, it was having an MVP and surrounding him with key players to compliment. With Suns, having 2nd tier players (I mean 1st tier as LeBron, KD, Kawhi, Giannis and a resurgent CP3 ), then add that MVP caliber.

The Spurs don’t have both :lol. We have a lot of good role players, maybe a budding star in DJ. A lot of work

[John B]

And there are many times other teams have done what the Suns have done and failed. See how your brain works?

I did mention “both were lucky”. And championship teams come with a little bit of luck.

[Mr. Body]

I’m torn between Wagner and Jalen Johnson. Wagner seems like a low-risk, medium-reward prospect, while Johnson is medium-risk, high-reward.

Wagner is practically no risk. Johnson is high risk.

[Mr. Body]

I get it and that’s astonishing. But the process of assembling that team was nothing every other team has not done, each year bringing someone. Can you really pinpoint exactly when they envisioned that roster? With the Suns, it was more decisive. They drafted wisely with Booker and Ayton, then made a big move to bring CP3 to push it to the next level.

But not to discredit both teams, they were lucky with teams having injuries with key players. More likelihood, it would be the Clips/Lakers vs Nets in the Finals. :toast

The Suns made some incredibly awful draft picks. They even sold some away a decade back to save the owner money. Ayton's surprised me, but Booker is still not at Young or Ja's level. He just has Chris Paul with him now. Without Paul, they'd still be languishing in mediocrity. I have doubts they could do this on their own.

[R. DeMurre]

I’m torn between Wagner and Jalen Johnson. Wagner seems like a low-risk, medium-reward prospect, while Johnson is medium-risk, high-reward.

The interesting thing about Jalen Johnson is that whatever his issues are, I don't think a casual fan will really have the ability to judge him, given the circumstances. He won a high school state championship and he put up great numbers at Duke when he was given minutes (which was rarely), but all of the problems seem to be entirely behind the scenes and interpersonal. Of course the internet being the internet, people will have strong uninformed opinions anyway, but it'll all be based on guessing what happened behind the scenes with no actual direct information. I'll admit that watching him in interviews doesn't exactly give me good vibes-- his personality seems very subtly shifty and defensive, but that perception could definitely be enhanced by his reputation, which I was aware of before I watched any interviews. On the other hand his highlight reel at Duke, despite his having played very few minutes and only 13 games, looks more impressive than that of guys who played twice as many games and averaged 30 mpg. His passing at times reminds me of Jokic, who was passed up by all 30 teams in the league mostly because he was overweight and had a reputation for being lazy. Both of those things might've been true when he was an immature 18 year old, but he's now an MVP.

[R. DeMurre]

I think if the Suns win it all, there will be the inevitable rush by some to say they are now a prime example of how to construct a team in the modern NBA, but I'm going to take all of that with a grain of salt. They beat three teams missing key players in Anthony Davis, Jamal Murray, and Kawhi. If AD is healthy, the Suns possibly lose in the first round and people say you can't compete with a traditional big, a shooting guard who can't defend, and an undersized PG.

[ginobilized]

The interesting thing about Jalen Johnson is that whatever his issues are, I don't think a casual fan will really have the ability to judge him, given the circumstances. He won a high school state championship and he put up great numbers at Duke when he was given minutes (which was rarely), but all of the problems seem to be entirely behind the scenes and interpersonal. Of course the internet being the internet, people will have strong uninformed opinions anyway, but it'll all be based on guessing what happened behind the scenes with no actual direct information. I'll admit that watching him in interviews doesn't exactly give me good vibes-- his personality seems very subtly shifty and defensive, but that perception could definitely be enhanced by his reputation, which I was aware of before I watched any interviews. On the other hand his highlight reel at Duke, despite his having played very few minutes and only 13 games, looks more impressive than that of guys who played twice as many games and averaged 30 mpg. His passing at times reminds me of Jokic, who was passed up by all 30 teams in the league mostly because he was overweight and had a reputation for being lazy. Both of those things might've been true when he was an immature 18 year old, but he's also this year's MVP.

Great points! It’s really hard to read Jalen Johnson. He doesn’t feel like a Spur to me.
The fact the Duke seemed to play better after he “quit” speaks volumes. The talent and size are there, though.

[Dennis the Menace]

Trey Murphy and then we purchase playoff tickets

[rankingtear]

The interesting thing about Jalen Johnson is that whatever his issues are, I don't think a casual fan will really have the ability to judge him, given the circumstances. He won a high school state championship and he put up great numbers at Duke when he was given minutes (which was rarely), but all of the problems seem to be entirely behind the scenes and interpersonal. Of course the internet being the internet, people will have strong uninformed opinions anyway, but it'll all be based on guessing what happened behind the scenes with no actual direct information. I'll admit that watching him in interviews doesn't exactly give me good vibes-- his personality seems very subtly shifty and defensive, but that perception could definitely be enhanced by his reputation, which I was aware of before I watched any interviews. On the other hand his highlight reel at Duke, despite his having played very few minutes and only 13 games, looks more impressive than that of guys who played twice as many games and averaged 30 mpg. His passing at times reminds me of Jokic, who was passed up by all 30 teams in the league mostly because he was overweight and had a reputation for being lazy. Both of those things might've been true when he was an immature 18 year old, but he's also this year's MVP.

He got on court issue too.

As soon as Jalen Johnson chucked a pass some 10 feet off target late in the Bellarmine game, Mike Krzyzewski said to his staff what looked to be a harsh four-word description for the frustrating uber-athlete, including one particularly harsh four-letter word. It doesn’t take a lip-reading expert to decipher from the telecast what the 41st-year Duke chief appeared to note to his crew:
“He’s so [expletive] soft.”

[R. DeMurre]

He got on court issue too.

As soon as Jalen Johnson chucked a pass some 10 feet off target late in the Bellarmine game, Mike Krzyzewski said to his staff what looked to be a harsh four-word description for the frustrating uber-athlete, including one particularly harsh four-letter word. It doesn’t take a lip-reading expert to decipher from the telecast what the 41st-year Duke chief appeared to note to his crew:
“He’s so [expletive] soft.”

Well, one could read that either way, to be honest. That's a shitty thing for a coach to say during a game, and I imagine if you asked Coach K now, he'd probably agree. The same thing has happened with Steve Kerr and Draymond, so who knows... I generally like Coach K, but he's not beyond reproach.

[PhantomDashCam]

Well worth watching this breakdown of an “average” Franz game.

Although clocking in at about 2 1/2 hours (!), it really is about an hour an of analysis with the rest being a prelude, introduction of
sorts; then a Q and A and a debate over the better prospect of Moody V Wagner to close it out.

Analysis starts at 12:20 mark fwiw.


https://youtu.be/iVjHr06h0-U

There are genuine concerns raised about Franz’s ‘risk averse’ style of play including turning down open shots, shying away from contact on drives (to create advantages) and the scalability of some of his defense.

[exstatic]

Well, one could read that either way, to be honest. That's a shitty thing for a coach to say during a game, and I imagine if you asked Coach K now, he'd probably agree. The same thing has happened with Steve Kerr and Draymond, so who knows... I generally like Coach K, but he's not beyond reproach.

Kryzewski has one job: putting a winning squad on the floor. That does not cover coddling highly recruited athletes. He actually has a reputation as a hards ass in his college coaching role. He did, after all, attend the USMA, AKA ARMY. If the Johnsons didn’t understand that, or do their due diligence, that’s on them. If they wanted the cream puff hands off approach, coach Cal at UK would have been happy to oblige

[rankingtear]

Well, one could read that either way, to be honest. That's a shitty thing for a coach to say during a game, and I imagine if you asked Coach K now, he'd probably agree. The same thing has happened with Steve Kerr and Draymond, so who knows... I generally like Coach K, but he's not beyond reproach.

Jim Boeheim on Jalen Johnson

"That guy was hurting them so they are much better without him. He was just doing some things and keeping others from playing that are good"

[Mr. Body]

He got on court issue too.

As soon as Jalen Johnson chucked a pass some 10 feet off target late in the Bellarmine game, Mike Krzyzewski said to his staff what looked to be a harsh four-word description for the frustrating uber-athlete, including one particularly harsh four-letter word. It doesn’t take a lip-reading expert to decipher from the telecast what the 41st-year Duke chief appeared to note to his crew:
“He’s so [expletive] soft.”

He's also a horrific shooter and lazy in all points of his game. He'll play hard, then give up, most notably on defense. Just disinterested. The guy has a lot of issues to bet on.

[R. DeMurre]

Well worth watching this breakdown of an “average” Franz game.

Although clocking in at about 2 1/2 hours (!), it really is about an hour an of analysis with the rest being a prelude, introduction of
sorts; then a Q and A and a debate over the better prospect of Moody V Wagner to close it out.

Analysis starts at 12:20 mark fwiw.


https://youtu.be/iVjHr06h0-U

There are genuine concerns raised about Franz’s ‘risk averse’ style of play including turning down open shots, shying away from contact on drives (to create advantages) and the scalability of some of his defense.

Ben Pfeifer was really high on Devin Vassell last year, and at one point even had him at #1: https://twitter.com/ben_pfeifer_/status/1326591653902053378
He's much higher on Jaden Springer this year than most, which is another interesting take.

He later amended the Vassell pick a little, but still raved about his defensive potential: https://www.thebirdwrites.com/2020/11/17/21564309/2020-nba-draft-rankings-final-board-pfeifer-lamelo-wiseman-edwards-hayes-okongwu-haliburton-pelicans

Whether it's Wagner, Springer, or Moody I'll be happy to see the Spurs returning to a defense first philosophy.

[Dejounte]

The Thunder are definitely going international:

https://www.nba.com/thunder/story/united-nations-210701

[Dejounte]

https://www.nba.com/pelicans/

Jalen Johnson combine interview.

Mentions he's interviewed with 12~ teams, lists eight: Raptors, Hawks, Pacers, Magic, Rockets, Knicks, Timberwolves, Wizards

In this interview, he says he's "going to do what's best for me and my family". I don't know how anyone could listen to him say those words and not consider it a huge red flag. But it's 'Murica and we're all about instant gratification in this country. They see talent and they go, "durrrrr I want that".

While I recognize his talent (Tier 3 in my list) and would be fine with the Spurs selecting him since they're usually thorough with their process-- I'm not going to downplay what's clearly a pattern of unusual behavior.

[Mr. Body]

https://www.nba.com/pelicans/

Jalen Johnson combine interview.

Mentions he's interviewed with 12~ teams, lists eight: Raptors, Hawks, Pacers, Magic, Rockets, Knicks, Timberwolves, Wizards

In this interview, he says he's "going to do what's best for me and my family". I don't know how anyone could listen to him say those words and not consider it a huge red flag. But it's 'Murica and we're all about instant gratification in this country. They see talent and they go, "durrrrr I want that".

While I recognize his talent (Tier 3 in my list) and would be fine with the Spurs selecting him since they're usually thorough with their process-- I'm not going to downplay what's clearly a pattern of unusual behavior.

Not even mentioning Kawhi, that's just a crater right there, going with his behavior so far. I'm feeling a really strong chance he drops out of the lottery, even into the 20s. Just bad news.

[Dejounte]

Not even mentioning Kawhi, that's just a crater right there, going with his behavior so far. I'm feeling a really strong chance he drops out of the lottery, even into the 20s. Just bad news.

It's the favorite quote of every NBA player ever who has switched teams in their career.

[Degoat]

I don’t anticipate the spurs taking Jalen Johnson, but the talent is there for something special. Can’t wait for the spurs to draft Davion Mitchell so everyone’s head can explode lol

[mo7888]

https://www.nba.com/pelicans/

Jalen Johnson combine interview.

Mentions he's interviewed with 12~ teams, lists eight: Raptors, Hawks, Pacers, Magic, Rockets, Knicks, Timberwolves, Wizards

In this interview, he says he's "going to do what's best for me and my family". I don't know how anyone could listen to him say those words and not consider it a huge red flag. But it's 'Murica and we're all about instant gratification in this country. They see talent and they go, "durrrrr I want that".

While I recognize his talent (Tier 3 in my list) and would be fine with the Spurs selecting him since they're usually thorough with their process-- I'm not going to downplay what's clearly a pattern of unusual behavior.

Yea, the more I hear (or read) him talk the more it makes me want to pass...he's falling on my board..

[lmbebo]

Jalen Johnson will probably a career journey man until he fizzles out of the league and plays overseas.

[Uriel]

I watched the Jalen Johnson draft combine interview and I didn’t think it was that bad. He didn’t wow me or anything, but he didn’t make me think he was a bad guy either. Just an average interview.

[PhantomDashCam]

Ben Pfeifer was really high on Devin Vassell last year, and at one point even had him at #1: https://twitter.com/ben_pfeifer_/status/1326591653902053378
He's much higher on Jaden Springer this year than most, which is another interesting take.

He later amended the Vassell pick a little, but still raved about his defensive potential: https://www.thebirdwrites.com/2020/11/17/21564309/2020-nba-draft-rankings-final-board-pfeifer-lamelo-wiseman-edwards-hayes-okongwu-haliburton-pelicans

Whether it's Wagner, Springer, or Moody I'll be happy to see the Spurs returning to a defense first philosophy.

Great stuff :tu.

They think Franz is technically and tactically so well versed that they suggest he has trouble with spontaneity and diverging from set paths as a result (when it may be required).

Lots of Spurs-y refs. in the video.

Spoiler alert (from the vid).

The Good:

- Tremendous Off-ball defender technically. Head always on a swivel.
- Team first guy.
- Coach's dream.

Most of what I've seen and read suggests that he's the ultimate glue guy in the draft (when you take into account his ceiling and becoming a consistent 3 point threat).
( They do make the case though, a team has to put Franz in a certain situation/position to maximize his skill set).

The question I have though, Are we at a stage in the Spurs rebuild timeline where we should take a guy (in the lottery), whose best case projections are a starting adhesive?

By no means am I trying to slander Franz as a prospect btw just have my doubts if that's in the team's best interest long term.

[Dejounte]

Great stuff :tu.

They think Franz is technically and tactically so well versed that they suggest he has trouble with spontaneity and diverging from set paths as a result (when it may be required).

Lots of Spurs-y refs. in the video.

Spoiler alert (from the vid).

The Good:

- Tremendous Off-ball defender technically. Head always on a swivel.
- Team first guy.
- Coach's dream.

Most of what I've seen and read suggests that he's the ultimate glue guy in the draft (when you take into account his ceiling and becoming a consistent 3 point threat).
( They do make the case though, a team has to put Franz in a certain situation/position to maximize his skill set).

The question I have though, Are we at a stage in the Spurs rebuild timeline where we should take a guy (in the lottery), whose best case projections are a starting adhesive?

By no means am I meaning to slander Franz as a prospect btw just have my doubts if that's in the team's best interest long term.

Sounds like the same criticism people had for Kawhi. You don't bet against someone continuously adding to their game.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/2021/01/05/michigan-wolvernes-franz-wagner-putting-two-way-play-display/4143577001/

“Those blocks on their shooters, those blocks on protecting the basket, it was just inspiring,” Howard said. “His level of being locked on the attention to detail, locked in on the scouting report, studying his opponent, knowing their tendencies — the guy is an architect.”

“As his game is growing, he's looking like, 'Man, I can really get stops. I can really defend. I can really score the ball at all three levels.' Now it's fun to him because he's doing some things he wasn't doing previously and now he's seeing his game expand. We're the beneficiaries of it because he has that giving spirit and because he's willing to sacrifice and do it on both ends of the floor. He just wants to impact winning.”

Senior guard Eli Brooks and Brown have experienced similar struggles against Wagner in practice. Brown noted Wagner’s long arms, lateral footwork and ability to “beat you to the spot” make it tough to score against him, while Brooks said Wagner has done a better job of defending without fouling and making opponents score over his length.

[mo7888]

Great stuff :tu.

They think Franz is technically and tactically so well versed that they suggest he has trouble with spontaneity and diverging from set paths as a result (when it may be required).

Lots of Spurs-y refs. in the video.

Spoiler alert (from the vid).

The Good:

- Tremendous Off-ball defender technically. Head always on a swivel.
- Team first guy.
- Coach's dream.

Most of what I've seen and read suggests that he's the ultimate glue guy in the draft (when you take into account his ceiling and becoming a consistent 3 point threat).
( They do make the case though, a team has to put Franz in a certain situation/position to maximize his skill set).

The question I have though, Are we at a stage in the Spurs rebuild timeline where we should take a guy (in the lottery), whose best case projections are a starting adhesive?

By no means am I meaning to slander Franz as a prospect btw just have my doubts if that's in the team's best interest long term.

If I agreed that being a 'starting adhesive' was a best case projection then I'd see your point. I believe that being a 'starting adhesive' is his floor. I believe his ceiling is a perennial allstar. He has two things that are vitally important that he masters to reach that though, 1) his outside shot (and I'm fairly confident that will come along fine) and 2) an alpha mentality, which I'm not nearly as confident about. He's gotta have that dog mentality if he's to reach the ceiling I have for him. If he can find that in himself he's the steal of this draft.

[PhantomDashCam]

Fair enough.
Thanks for the responses.

[Truth4sale$]

Is anyone here talking about Zaire Williams,?? seems to had a good combine. Has great length on the wing, a ton of upside to develop into two-way star. He has ball handling skills, he can shoot, already solid in defense. Has been compared to Paul George. 2 years in the Gleage and people could be looking back wondering how did people overlook him.

[Mnky]

I get it and that’s astonishing. But the process of assembling that team was nothing every other team has not done, each year bringing someone. Can you really pinpoint exactly when they envisioned that roster? With the Suns, it was more decisive. They drafted wisely with Booker and Ayton, then made a big move to bring CP3 to push it to the next level.

But not to discredit both teams, they were lucky with teams having injuries with key players. More likelihood, it would be the Clips/Lakers vs Nets in the Finals. :toast

I don't think it was too decisive on the sun's. They missed on picks, traded others. They also missed on quite a few free agents. They had max cap a few years but kept missing on their plans.

Booker and ayton were great hits but like I said, they've been living in the lottery and until Chris Paul and Monty showed up, didn't have much tl show for it.

I'm not downing them or anything. They've done a great job recently.
I just think the people who feel dependent on high draft picks don't realize how little they play out in reality.

[tonight...you]

I don't think it was too decisive on the sun's. They missed on picks, traded others. They also missed on quite a few free agents. They had max cap a few years but kept missing on their plans.

Booker and ayton were great hits but like I said, they've been living in the lottery and until Chris Paul and Monty showed up, didn't have much tl show for it.

I'm not downing them or anything. They've done a great job recently.
I just think the people who feel dependent on high draft picks don't realize how little they play out in reality.
Let's just say that whoever wins probably won't repeat.

[Degoat]

Is anyone here talking about Zaire Williams,?? seems to had a good combine. Has great length on the wing, a ton of upside to develop into two-way star. He has ball handling skills, he can shoot, already solid in defense. Has been compared to Paul George. 2 years in the Gleage and people could be looking back wondering how did people overlook him.

I have a feeling he might be the spurs guy, he definitely needs a couple of years to develop but he has a solid foundation to build on

[R. DeMurre]

Great stuff :tu.

They think Franz is technically and tactically so well versed that they suggest he has trouble with spontaneity and diverging from set paths as a result (when it may be required).

Lots of Spurs-y refs. in the video.

Spoiler alert (from the vid).

The Good:

- Tremendous Off-ball defender technically. Head always on a swivel.
- Team first guy.
- Coach's dream.

Most of what I've seen and read suggests that he's the ultimate glue guy in the draft (when you take into account his ceiling and becoming a consistent 3 point threat).
( They do make the case though, a team has to put Franz in a certain situation/position to maximize his skill set).

The question I have though, Are we at a stage in the Spurs rebuild timeline where we should take a guy (in the lottery), whose best case projections are a starting adhesive?

By no means am I trying to slander Franz as a prospect btw just have my doubts if that's in the team's best interest long term.


The discussions about his usage rate & such are interesting because they bring to mind the type of player I most hope he becomes: Andrei Kirilenko. Kirilenko never had an issue asserting himself on the Russian National team or on CSKA Moscow, where he was the undisputed alpha dog-- but in the NBA he was always much more of a do everything glue guy with a pretty modest usage rate. I don't know if Wagner ever becomes a main guy-- I tend to doubt it-- but I can see him as potentially a very effective player with great advanced stats who can play with anyone... which is kinda how I also see Derrick White, at his best. Assembling those kinds of guys is never a bad idea.

[Mr. Body]

My comparison for Wagner is his countryman of a previous generation -- Detlef Schrempf. Schrempf was never offensively productive enough to be a star, but he did so many different things on the floor and was that prototypical glue guy. Wagner projects as a better defender and less of a facilitator, but may be along those lines.

[slick'81]

My comparison for Wagner is his countryman of a previous generation -- Detlef Schrempf. Schrempf was never offensively productive enough to be a star, but he did so many different things on the floor and was that prototypical glue guy. Wagner projects as a better defender and less of a facilitator, but may be along those lines.


Shiit detlef was an allstar and 6th man oty. Id take that in a heartbeat

[Em-City]

My comparison for Wagner is his countryman of a previous generation -- Detlef Schrempf. Schrempf was never offensively productive enough to be a star, but he did so many different things on the floor and was that prototypical glue guy. Wagner projects as a better defender and less of a facilitator, but may be along those lines.

He was scoring 20ppg at Indy

[Mr. Body]

Ziaire Williams could certainly be the Spurs' pick. He's not very sexy as a selection at this point I think for a few reasons. He didn't produce very well this season (his freshman year). His numbers are not good, especially shooting and turnovers. But his team struggled with COVID issues and he lost a couple uncles, I believe. He's also thought to be a bit mechanical in how he plays and may not be able to generate his shot as well as other guys. He also projects are a 3 and D guy without much upside beyond that.

Those might be unfair, or not, but he definitely will need a good amount of development, both in strength and otherwise.

So I think fans want someone who can hit sooner and is more likely to become a 'star.' But he has great height and good athleticism and seems to have his head screwed on straight.

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/OxEbMfMPaQ8

I feel a point made in this video sums up Ziaire: “he takes a pull up where the defense stops him at.”, “a guy who doesn’t process plays”, “will settle for bad jumpshots”

sounds like the Lonnie Walker syndrome.

it seems like people who are pro-Ziaire are typically the ones who look at height and highlights only. Same with pro-Kai folks, with a sprinkle of athleticism.

you take a peep at this guy’s lowlights and they are excruciatingly bad.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, I was going to say exactly that -- Ziaire projects a lot like Lonnie, a guy who isn't putting it together and may not despite his gifts.

[Dejounte]

Chris Duarte on IG: “San Antonio is beautiful”

[Degoat]

Chris Duarte on IG: “San Antonio is beautiful”

Did he delete it? Because I just checked and didn’t see it

[Uriel]

Basketball aside, Duke and Michigan are two outstanding universities, and Johnson and Wagner are privileged to have been able to attend such esteemed institutions.

[Degoat]

Honestly I think we’re really lucky this year, idk what players will turn out to be stars in this draft but there’s lot of players I’d be thrilled with if we drafted

[Dejounte]

Did he delete it? Because I just checked and didn’t see it

it was on IG live, he was in a tattoo shop.

[duncan2150]

I think Duarte would be a solid pro, i don't have a problem about his age : i prefer to have 8 years of good basketball from a 23-24 yrs old than next to nothing from a young one.

But i will not take him at 12 because i think there will be players with more upside, if we have another pick he could be a solid choice.

[Dejounte]

I think Duarte would be a solid pro, i don't have a problem about his age : i prefer to have 8 years of good basketball from a 23-24 yrs old than next to nothing from a young one.

But i will not take him at 12 because i think there will be players with more upside, if we have another pick he could be a solid choice.

IMO, if Duarte comes in and gives solid production off the bat, people will believe there is more upside to be attained for subsequent years. Hell, some people believe Murray will continue to improve (justifiably so) and he’s almost 25. Ginobili improved each year until he was 30.

As an aside, it’s always great to pick up a player who will embrace the city of San Antonio. IMO, Duarte will quickly become a fan favorite, and he could be a gateway to his teammates for the city’s culture. We saw several of the young core experiencing the Fiesta for the first time. A player who understands the city the team plays for could quickly become a leader in the locker room.

Bottomline: Chris Duarte is the type of player you get if you’re losing DeMar this offseason. Think of it as also appealing to the season ticket holders + casual fans who watch the Spurs because DeMar is a household name.

[duncan2150]

IMO, if Duarte comes in and gives solid production off the bat, people will believe there is more upside to be attained for subsequent years. Hell, some people believe Murray will continue to improve (justifiably so) and he’s almost 25. Ginobili improved each year until he was 30.

As an aside, it’s always great to pick up a player who will embrace the city of San Antonio. IMO, Duarte will quickly become a fan favorite, and he could be a gateway to his teammates for the city’s culture. We saw several of the young core experiencing the Fiesta for the first time. A player who understands the city the team plays for could quickly become a leader in the locker room.

Bottomline: Chris Duarte is the type of player you get if you’re losing DeMar this offseason. Think of it as also appealing to the season ticket holders + casual fans who watch the Spurs because DeMar is a household name.

I don't disagree but the question is : do you draft him if all the other players of your tier 1 are here ?

[Dejounte]

I don't disagree but the question is : do you draft him if all the other players of your tier 1 are here ?

The Spurs rarely let stars slip past where they’re slated to pick. They have my full confidence that the right guy will be chosen. If Kuminga drops and is there at #12 and the Spurs still select someone else over him, I would think that something was wrong with Kuminga and not the Spurs. They’re one of the best at doing this, man. Now, if a Tier 5 guy was selected over a Tier 1 guy, that would be a tougher pill to swallow but I’ll quickly get over it, probably after the summer league.

[Dejounte]

Trey Murphy in Memphis per his IG. They have the 17th pick and the 51st pick.

[BatManu20]

Chris Duarte on IG: “San Antonio is beautiful”


I actually really like Chris as a player. Just hate the fact that he’ll turn 25 his Rookie season. That’s terrible for a team who’s building more for the future instead of the present.

[Dejounte]

CQ8-PjmD2ml

[Dejounte]

I actually really like Chris as a player. Just hate the fact that he’ll turn 25 his Rookie season. That’s terrible for a team who’s building more for the future instead of the present.

It’s an obvious mental roadblock for many Spurs fans. A common misconception is that youth = good all the time. If the Spurs see Chris as being one of the top 3 players on the team in three years (entirely possible with his offensive skillset), then you have a 28 year old player in his prime leading a bunch of role players (with hopefully two other really good players). 28 years old doesn’t sound too old when you’re the one of the best players on the team. It does sound old when you have a rookie label on you. But who cares about labels when you’re that good?

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, people (and teams) massively overrate youth, then wonder why raw players never develop or it takes them too long. Not saying Duarte isn't really old as a rookie, though. His analog is Derrick White. We already know what an older player who has a lot of tricks and polish for a rookie looks like.

[R. DeMurre]

In the proposed sign-and-trade scenario by Dan Favale of Bleacher Report (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2945371-1-offseason-trade-idea-for-every-nba-team), the Lakers would be sending a package that includes Kyle Kuzma, Montrezl Harrell, and the No. 22 pick in the 2021 NBA Draft to the Spurs in exchange for DeRozan.

https://www.inquisitr.com/6493473/nba-rumors-proposed-sign-and-trade-deal-would-send-demar-derozan

Currently, the 22nd pick on Tankathon's mock is.... Chris Duarte.

http://www.tankathon.com/mock_draft

[Degoat]

I’ve grown a lot on Chris Duarte! My only concern is last year I thought Obi Toppin would be great and he was an upper class man and his game hasn’t translated to the league much.

[bluebellmaniac]

24 Days until the Draft

[bluebellmaniac]

In the proposed sign-and-trade scenario by Dan Favale of Bleacher Report (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2945371-1-offseason-trade-idea-for-every-nba-team), the Lakers would be sending a package that includes Kyle Kuzma, Montrezl Harrell, and the No. 22 pick in the 2021 NBA Draft to the Spurs in exchange for DeRozan.

https://www.inquisitr.com/6493473/nba-rumors-proposed-sign-and-trade-deal-would-send-demar-derozan

Currently, the 22nd pick on Tankathon's mock is.... Chris Duarte.

http://www.tankathon.com/mock_draft

I really hate the Lakers, but it'd be hard to pass up an offer like that if it came across my desk. DeMar can leave for nothing, or we can shore up our Forward/Center spots and get an extra pick? I'd say yes to that.

[Dejounte]

I’ve grown a lot on Chris Duarte! My only concern is last year I thought Obi Toppin would be great and he was an upper class man and his game hasn’t translated to the league much.

Toppin hasn't been able to translate his game because of his stiff hips which causes him to be a liability on defense. Age couldn't help that. If Toppin was 19 and strictly focused his training regime on lateral quickness for years, he still wouldn't be much better. The guy has genetically narrow hips. That's why I'm leery of drafting guys like Jalen (outside of his possible character concerns) who could turn out to be Rudy Gay 1.0 on defense.

[exstatic]

I’ve grown a lot on Chris Duarte! My only concern is last year I thought Obi Toppin would be great and he was an upper class man and his game hasn’t translated to the league much.

Toppin had red flags. His defense was sub par, and he used his athleticism more than anything else, and that was never going to translate up a level of competition. His rebounding was also sub par.

The two things that do translate from one level to the next are rebounding and shooting. Duarte is a shooter.

[Dejounte]

Yeah, people (and teams) massively overrate youth, then wonder why raw players never develop or it takes them too long. Not saying Duarte isn't really old as a rookie, though. His analog is Derrick White. We already know what an older player who has a lot of tricks and polish for a rookie looks like.

If there was an opportunity to draft a player who was like Derrick White but with actual confidence from the very beginning AND wasn't injury-prone... sign me up. That would be a helluva player.

Disclaimer: I don't actually believe Duarte plays anything like Derrick since their shot profile on offense is different and Derrick is top notch on defense. But I do believe Duarte could one day exceed White's offensive output by at least 1.5x.

[R. DeMurre]

I really hate the Lakers, but it'd be hard to pass up an offer like that if it came across my desk. DeMar can leave for nothing, or we can shore up our Forward/Center spots and get an extra pick? I'd say yes to that.

Agreed! I'm not especially high on Kuzma or Harrell, but both are on very reasonable & short contracts, and both could be pieces in future trades.

[R. DeMurre]

Toppin had red flags. His defense was sub par, and he used his athleticism more than anything else, and that was never going to translate up a level of competition. His rebounding was also sub par.



That's what I thought & said last year too, but there were a lot of scouts and a lot of spurstalk folks saying Toppin was the most NBA ready college player, that he'd contribute immediately, and be a ROY contender. Redo that draft today and he might not even go in the first round.

This is actually a good read right about now: https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286813&highlight=obi+toppin

[Ocotillo]

In the proposed sign-and-trade scenario by Dan Favale of Bleacher Report (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2945371-1-offseason-trade-idea-for-every-nba-team), the Lakers would be sending a package that includes Kyle Kuzma, Montrezl Harrell, and the No. 22 pick in the 2021 NBA Draft to the Spurs in exchange for DeRozan.

https://www.inquisitr.com/6493473/nba-rumors-proposed-sign-and-trade-deal-would-send-demar-derozan

Currently, the 22nd pick on Tankathon's mock is.... Chris Duarte.

http://www.tankathon.com/mock_draft

I would do that.

[BacktoBasics]

That’s one of the few trade proposals we’ve seen here that actually makes sense for both teams. I’d do that.

[EasyMoney]

Corey kispert. Please and thanks. Then sign duncan Robinson and lauri markannen. Constant shootouts in San Antonio.

[exstatic]

Corey kispert. Please and thanks. Then sign duncan Robinson and lauri markannen. Constant shootouts in San Antonio.

ChrisDuarte and Trey Murphy. Shooting and defense. .

[KobesAchilles]

Yeah at this point I’m just tired of players who can’t/refuse to take 3 pointers. It’s not even on coaching anymore. DJ and KJ look scared to shoot open 3s in a game. That’s why I wanted Vassell last draft. And it’s why I want Duarte this draft. Give me shooting from nonundersized guards and I can live with the result

[TD 21]

If not Sengun (with their luck, he'll rise late and be gone) or Wagner (long projected to be gone when they pick), who could you envision the Spurs selecting?

Despite the continued unflattering reports and innuendo, Jalen Johnson is the only other candidate I got and he's a maybe.

[Trill Clinton]

Corey kispert. Please and thanks. Then sign duncan Robinson and lauri markannen. Constant shootouts in San Antonio.

You trying to turn us into the Washington generals? No thanks.

[duncan2150]

If not Sengun (with their luck, he'll rise late and be gone) or Wagner (long projected to be gone when they pick), who could you envision the Spurs selecting?

Despite the continued unflattering reports and innuendo, Jalen Johnson is the only other candidate I got and he's a maybe.


I think Giddey could be in the mix with Bouknight and Jalen Johnson.

I don't see the Spurs going on Jones, Jackson at 12 but don't forget Garuba.

[alfahdlan]

This is what we wanted Lonnie to be. Unafraid to mix it up inside. If he’s there at 12 please look hard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9xTKktY3Hc

[TD 21]

I think Giddey could be in the mix with Bouknight and Jalen Johnson.

I don't see the Spurs going on Jones, Jackson at 12 but don't forget Garuba.

If they go guard/wing, they need to go the trade route either by trading back (depending on who it is) or trading a current guard/wing (most likely Walker IV).

[exstatic]

If they go guard/wing, they need to go the trade route either by trading back (depending on who it is) or trading a current guard/wing (most likely Walker IV).

I’ve come to the conclusion that Lonnie is just a big, bouncy version of Forbes. I half expect him to start licking his fingers, and dapping the soles of his shoes. Yes, his defense is that awful.

[Mr. Body]

If not Sengun (with their luck, he'll rise late and be gone) or Wagner (long projected to be gone when they pick), who could you envision the Spurs selecting?

Despite the continued unflattering reports and innuendo, Jalen Johnson is the only other candidate I got and he's a maybe.

Jalen Johnson is a heavy no. Sengun I'm unsure about. Wagner is at or near the top of the list.

If you read through the pages here you'll see many other options and not feel so lost.

[KobesAchilles]

This is what we wanted Lonnie to be. Unafraid to mix it up inside. If he’s there at 12 please look hard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9xTKktY3Hc
Dude is incapable of making a left handed lay up. Weird that he practices all these right handed lay ups on the left hand side when he could easily just finish left handed. He clearly worked on his left hand on some hesitation dribbles but that’s as far as it goes. It’s not the biggest thing in the world but it’s just weird to me

[Mr. Body]

I’ve come to the conclusion that Lonnie is just a big, bouncy version of Forbes. I half expect him to start licking his fingers, and dapping the soles of his shoes. Yes, his defense is that awful.

Forbes wasn't afraid to shoot.

[Mr. Body]

This is what we wanted Lonnie to be. Unafraid to mix it up inside. If he’s there at 12 please look hard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9xTKktY3Hc

Goddamn is that voice annoying as fuck and the copy fucking terrible. It sounds like bad ESPN, which is all of ESPN.

Bouknight looks like that Ja Morant model, the type the league doesn't permit you to play defense on anymore and can get anywhere he wants.

[Dejounte]

If not Sengun (with their luck, he'll rise late and be gone) or Wagner (long projected to be gone when they pick), who could you envision the Spurs selecting?

Despite the continued unflattering reports and innuendo, Jalen Johnson is the only other candidate I got and he's a maybe.

Last year on why Vassell stood out in Brian Wright's words: "He is a 3-level scorer and he's a good defender."

If the Spurs continue last year's trend and select a player based on this criteria, you basically have the following players: Moody, Bouknight, Wagner, Duarte. So if I was a betting man, I'd put money on one of those players being drafted.

Players who are out and why:

-Kispert - not really a scorer from mid-range & not a reputable defender
-Usman Garuba - for obvious reasons
-Keon & Springer - shot profile consists mostly of mid-range shots
-Kai Jones - not a mid-range scorer, hardly a 3 pt shooter
-Giddey - Poor defender, work-in-progress shooter
-Sengun & Jalen Johnson - Weak perimeter defender

Obviously, this is all speculation and they could go a different route.

[PhantomDashCam]

I don't know how many people here watch interviews of future prospects but for me it can be a huge swing factor for determining what prospects the Spurs may go after.

James Bouknight Combine Interview:

https://www.si.com/nba/thunder/video/watch-potential-thunder-target-james-bouknights-2021-nba-draft-combine-interview

He doesn't lack for confidence, I'll give him that...

If you watch this in its entirety, I'd be very interested if you think this guy sounds like Spurs material.
IMHO, Jalen Johnson would have more of a chance getting drafted by us than this guy.

[BackHome]

Agreed! I'm not especially high on Kuzma or Harrell, but both are on very reasonable & short contracts, and both could be pieces in future trades.

Yeah if we were to do that I would sit each one down and say I know you don't want to be here so were going to give you every opportunity to play and do well and then we going to trade your ass for some picks..lol.....If your good will try to get you close to where you want.

But serious we should do that neither play will want to stay with SA so take a page out of OK and get some value in trading them

[Mr. Body]

Last year on why Vassell stood out in Brian Wright's words: "He is a 3-level scorer and he's a good defender."

If the Spurs continue last year's trend and select a player based on this criteria, you basically have the following players: Moody, Bouknight, Wagner, Duarte. So if I was a betting man, I'd put money on one of those players being drafted.

Players who are out and why:

-Kispert - not really a scorer from mid-range & not a reputable defender
-Usman Garuba - for obvious reasons
-Keon & Springer - shot profile consists mostly of mid-range shots
-Kai Jones - not a mid-range scorer, hardly a 3 pt shooter
-Giddey - Poor defender, work-in-progress shooter

Obviously, this is all speculation and they could go a different route.

My guess is the three-way scorer is less important to the team than switchability on defense and great helpside defense, which allows a lot of overlap trying to contain the bonkers play style the NBA permits nowadays. As for three-way scoring, I'm unsure about Moody in the midrange, Bouknight is a bad three point shooter, Wagner does not have a midrange, etc.

I feel that the team needs playmaking and wing support. The only playmaker on the team is White, when he's not injured, and I don't feel great about either Keldon or Samanac on the wings. Ergo I still have Giddey and Keon Johnson on the board, for example.

[Dejounte]

I don't know how many people here watch interviews of future prospects but for me it can be a huge swing factor for determining what prospects the Spurs may go after.

James Bouknight Combine Interview:

https://www.si.com/nba/thunder/video/watch-potential-thunder-target-james-bouknights-2021-nba-draft-combine-interview

He doesn't lack for confidence, I'll give him that...

If you watch this in its entirety, I'd be very interested if you think this guy sounds like Spurs material.
IMHO, Jalen Johnson would have more of a chance getting drafted by us than this guy.

You're absolutely right. I was high on this guy in the beginning, but personality-wise and what the Spurs usually go for-- it just might not be a fit.

That doesn't takeaway from his talent, I think he's got what it takes to be a star in this league.

I'd say the difference between him and Jalen is that Bouknight comes across as cocky about his abilities, whilst Jalen sounds selfish and is all about getting what's his. That's my read on things, purely my opinion.

[BackHome]

Last year on why Vassell stood out in Brian Wright's words: "He is a 3-level scorer and he's a good defender."

If the Spurs continue last year's trend and select a player based on this criteria, you basically have the following players: Moody, Bouknight, Wagner, Duarte. So if I was a betting man, I'd put money on one of those players being drafted.

Players who are out and why:

-Kispert - not really a scorer from mid-range & not a reputable defender
-Usman Garuba - for obvious reasons
-Keon & Springer - shot profile consists mostly of mid-range shots
-Kai Jones - not a mid-range scorer, hardly a 3 pt shooter
-Giddey - Poor defender, work-in-progress shooter
-Sengun & Jalen Johnson - Weak perimeter defender

Obviously, this is all speculation and they could go a different route.

If we draft any of the bold four players I am good if they not available I am Captain trade down...:(

[Dejounte]

My guess is the three-way scorer is less important to the team than switchability on defense and great helpside defense, which allows a lot of overlap trying to contain the bonkers play style the NBA permits nowadays. As for three-way scoring, I'm unsure about Moody in the midrange, Bouknight is a bad three point shooter, Wagner does not have a midrange, etc.

I feel that the team needs playmaking and wing support. The only playmaker on the team is White, when he's not injured, and I don't feel great about either Keldon or Samanac on the wings. Ergo I still have Giddey and Keon Johnson on the board, for example.

Let's look--

Bouknight:
65.8% close range - 79 attempts
36.9% mid-range - 65 attempts
29.3% 3's - 75 attempts

Wagner:
67.7% close-range - 93 attempts
40% mid-range - 65 attempts
34.3% 3's - 102 attempts

Moody:
56.1% close range - 107 attempts
40.5% mid-range - 111 attempts
36.5% 3's - 156 attempts

Usage plays a factor here. I don't necessarily think Bouk is a bad 3 point shooter; it's like buying stocks on what you think are good investments, and I think his shooting form is something I'd buy stocks in.

Moody is okay in the mid-range, as well as Wagner.

Duarte:
70% on close range - 90 attempts (holy shit!)
53.7% on mid-range - 67 attempts
42.4% on 3's - 144 attempts

[Mr. Body]

Let's look--

Bouknight:
65.8% close range - 79 attempts
36.9% mid-range - 65 attempts
29.3% 3's - 75 attempts

Wagner:
67.7% close-range - 93 attempts
40% mid-range - 65 attempts
34.3% 3's - 102 attempts

Moody:
56.1% close range - 107 attempts
40.5% mid-range - 111 attempts
36.5% 3's - 156 attempts

Usage plays a factor here. I don't necessarily think Bouk is a bad 3 point shooter; it's like buying stocks on what you think are good investments, and I think his shooting form is something I'd buy stocks in.

Moody is okay in the mid-range, as well as Wagner.

Duarte:
70% on close range - 90 attempts (holy shit!)
53.7% on mid-range - 67 attempts
42.4% on 3's - 144 attempts

When we talk about mid-range, I think we mean someone who can manufacture those shots, a la DeRozan, not someone who takes standstill midrange shots. I'm not sure Wagner does that, not that I remember seeing, but also he doesn't need to do that. Bouknight does have a pretty bad 3-point shot at this point. It's inconsistent and messy. Duarte clearly is a gerat shooter and is not given credit as such.

[mo7888]

If not Sengun (with their luck, he'll rise late and be gone) or Wagner (long projected to be gone when they pick), who could you envision the Spurs selecting?

Despite the continued unflattering reports and innuendo, Jalen Johnson is the only other candidate I got and he's a maybe.

In thst scenario with Wagner and Sengun gone I think they look very hard at Moody for the pick.

[Dejounte]

When we talk about mid-range, I think we mean someone who can manufacture those shots, a la DeRozan, not someone who takes standstill midrange shots. I'm not sure Wagner does that, not that I remember seeing, but also he doesn't need to do that. Bouknight does have a pretty bad 3-point shot at this point. It's inconsistent and messy. Duarte clearly is a gerat shooter and is not given credit as such.

Of these four, Duarte and Bouknight are the best shot creators. Those types definitely hold a lot of value, as we've seen in these playoffs when no one can buy a shot. It is that reason why I'm higher on Duarte than most. DeMar will leave a big hole if/when he leaves. I mean, there was already a hole (for shot creation) even when he was on the team.

Lonnie attempted to fill it... but oh so inconsistent.

[PhantomDashCam]

You're absolutely right. I was high on this guy in the beginning, but personality-wise and what the Spurs usually go for-- it just might not be a fit.

That doesn't takeaway from his talent, I think he's got what it takes to be a star in this league.

I'd say the difference between him and Jalen is that Bouknight comes across as cocky about his abilities, whilst Jalen sounds selfish and is all about getting what's his. That's my read on things, purely my opinion.

I agree, to an extent in a "hyped for the market" type of player - a Brandon Ingram type if you will...

https://twitter.com/jackfrank_jjf/status/1408875482502754306?s=20

[Mr. Body]

In thst scenario with Wagner and Sengun gone I think they look very hard at Moody for the pick.

Moody has much to recommend him, but I keep sticking at how he completely shat the bed during his two games in the tournament, shooting 4-20 and 2-10 and missing all of his 3-point attempts.

[Dejounte]

Let's continue this exercise...

Kai Jones:
74.4% close range - 82 attempts
33.3% mid-range - 27 attempts
38.2% 3's - 34 attempts

Scottie Barnes
68.5% close range - 89 attempts
39.4% mid-range - 66 attempts
27.5% 3's - 40 attempts

Kispert:
75.4% close range - 130 attempts (impressive!)
34.5% mid-range - 58 attempts
44% 3's - 207 attempts

Ziaire... just awful everywhere
53.1% close - 49 attempts
36% mid - 75 attempts
29.1% 3's - 79 attempts

Tre Mann:
58.9% close - 73 attempts
42.9% mid - 105 attempts
40.2% 3's - 112 attempts

Cunningham:
62% close - 108 attempts
33.6% mid - 137 attempts
40% 3's - 155 attempts

Suggs:
63.4% close - 153 attempts
44% mid - 50 attempts
33.7% 3's - 104 attempts

[Dejounte]

Moody has much to recommend him, but I keep sticking at how he completely shat the bed during his two games in the tournament, shooting 4-20 and 2-10 and missing all of his 3-point attempts.

See, I don't read too much into poor shooting nights because sometimes they go in, sometimes they don't. My qualm with Moody is, I'm not sure if he's "built" for the moment. He gives me Pandemic P vibes in the way he carries himself, taking an almost passive approach when the team needs him to score. And it's really too bad because he's got all the tools to takeover, but he just looks like he lacks in that mindset.

[EasyMoney]

I agree, to an extent in a "hyped for the market" type of player - a Brandon Ingram type if you will...

https://twitter.com/jackfrank_jjf/status/1408875482502754306?s=20


This is the guy people say the spurs should have traded kawhi for? Lol

[Mr. Body]

See, I don't read too much into poor shooting nights because sometimes they go in, sometimes they don't. My qualm with Moody is, I'm not sure if he's "built" for the moment. He gives me Pandemic P vibes in the way he carries himself, taking an almost passive approach when the team needs him to score. And it's really too bad because he's got all the tools to takeover, but he just looks like he lacks in that mindset.

Passivity is one bad thing, and agree, but in the two most important games of his career, he was terrible. That's not a good sign.

[Mr. Body]

This is the guy people say the spurs should have traded kawhi for? Lol

Ingram is just a bad player. He gets his stats early in games and then wilts like a daisy the rest of the time. He'll get tugged ahead by Zion, who is five times the competitor. Spurs dodged a bullet on a guy who was hyped to a completely undeserved All-Star berth.

[Marco]

I can see Trey Murphy being the Spurs pick. It should make a lot of sense, too.

[The Truth #6]

Let's continue this exercise...

Kai Jones:
74.4% close range - 82 attempts
33.3% mid-range - 27 attempts
38.2% 3's - 34 attempts

Scottie Barnes
68.5% close range - 89 attempts
39.4% mid-range - 66 attempts
27.5% 3's - 40 attempts

Kispert:
75.4% close range - 130 attempts (impressive!)
34.5% mid-range - 58 attempts
44% 3's - 207 attempts

Ziaire... just awful everywhere
53.1% close - 49 attempts
36% mid - 75 attempts
29.1% 3's - 79 attempts

Tre Mann:
58.9% close - 73 attempts
42.9% mid - 105 attempts
40.2% 3's - 112 attempts

Cunningham:
62% close - 108 attempts
33.6% mid - 137 attempts
40% 3's - 155 attempts

Suggs:
63.4% close - 153 attempts
44% mid - 50 attempts
33.7% 3's - 104 attempts

Nice work. I’m higher on Springer than most, and I see him as a three-level scorer who plays defense, and seems to be a high character Spurs type. Did you find his breakdowns in your research?

[Dejounte]

Nice work. I’m higher on Springer than most, and I see him as a three-level scorer who plays defense, and seems to be a high character Spurs type. Did you find his breakdowns in your research?

ah, I did it awhile back, that’s why I didn’t bother to do it. Here you go:

65.8% close - 76 attempts
34.9% mid - 106 attempts
43.5% 3’s - 46 attempts

as I mentioned, a very mid-range heavy shooting archetype. Just not convinced that’s the type the Spurs would go for with the current roster construction, but obviously could be wrong.

Shot profiles don’t drastically change overnight. Yes, Springer could increase the volume he takes 3’s, but usually it’s an indicator of what a player is comfortable doing. There will be a learning curve for Springer to feel comfortable shooting 3s at a higher rate on a consistent basis, and I’m not sure Spurs fans would be that patient about it.

[The Truth #6]

ah, I did it awhile back, that’s why I didn’t bother to do it. Here you go:

65.8% close - 76 attempts
34.9% mid - 106 attempts
43.5% 3’s - 46 attempts

as I mentioned, a very mid-range heavy shooting archetype. Just not convinced that’s the type the Spurs would go for with the current roster construction, but obviously could be wrong.

Shot profiles don’t drastically change overnight. Yes, Springer could increase the volume he takes 3’s, but usually it’s an indicator of what a player is comfortable doing. There will be a learning curve for Springer to feel comfortable shooting 3s at a higher rate on a consistent basis, and I’m not sure Spurs fans would be that patient about it.

The mid range numbers are disappointing. Worse than I thought.

[alfahdlan]

Let's look--

Bouknight:
65.8% close range - 79 attempts
36.9% mid-range - 65 attempts
29.3% 3's - 75 attempts

Wagner:
67.7% close-range - 93 attempts
40% mid-range - 65 attempts
34.3% 3's - 102 attempts

Moody:
56.1% close range - 107 attempts
40.5% mid-range - 111 attempts
36.5% 3's - 156 attempts

Usage plays a factor here. I don't necessarily think Bouk is a bad 3 point shooter; it's like buying stocks on what you think are good investments, and I think his shooting form is something I'd buy stocks in.

Moody is okay in the mid-range, as well as Wagner.

Duarte:
70% on close range - 90 attempts (holy shit!)
53.7% on mid-range - 67 attempts
42.4% on 3's - 144 attempts

I appreciate your added perspective, Dejounte. But that stats are relative based on who are their respective team mates. Some may have ease on doing things mid range or close range based from shooters from the team. Teams usually game plan on bouknight coz there are few threats from the team, hence the difficulty in every shot. Imagine him with white, vassel and dieng at PF.

[Kurik]

I appreciate your added perspective, Dejounte. But that stats are relative based on who are their respective team mates. Some may have ease on doing things mid range or close range based from shooters from the team. Teams usually game plan on bouknight coz there are few threats from the team, hence the difficulty in every shot. Imagine him with white, vassel and dieng at PF.

Agreed, some people will look at FT% as an initial gauge for shooting potential.

[Dejounte]

I appreciate your added perspective, Dejounte. But that stats are relative based on who are their respective team mates. Some may have ease on doing things mid range or close range based from shooters from the team. Teams usually game plan on bouknight coz there are few threats from the team, hence the difficulty in every shot. Imagine him with white, vassel and dieng at PF.

I agree, and that’s why I said usage is a factor. With Bouk, his percentages are skewed because he’s relied on as an ISO scorer. A lot of his shots were off the dribble (aka the most difficult kind), which is just his style. He’s a shot creator through and through. Others might not do as well if their role was the same as Bouk’s. These are the things teams have to account for when projecting a player’s potential.

[Dejounte]

Agreed, some people will look at FT% as an initial gauge for shooting potential.

I would say this is accurate. Of everyone mentioned so far, Kai and Scottie Barnes shot reeeeally poorly from the free throw line. Their future shooting outlook doesn’t look good as a result.

[R. DeMurre]

ah, I did it awhile back, that’s why I didn’t bother to do it. Here you go:

65.8% close - 76 attempts
34.9% mid - 106 attempts
43.5% 3’s - 46 attempts

as I mentioned, a very mid-range heavy shooting archetype. Just not convinced that’s the type the Spurs would go for with the current roster construction, but obviously could be wrong.

Shot profiles don’t drastically change overnight. Yes, Springer could increase the volume he takes 3’s, but usually it’s an indicator of what a player is comfortable doing. There will be a learning curve for Springer to feel comfortable shooting 3s at a higher rate on a consistent basis, and I’m not sure Spurs fans would be that patient about it.

Where are you getting your numbers? I'm looking at this article: https://www.prospectiveinsight.com/post/scouting-jaden-springer

They have:
118 shots in restricted area
64 shots from midrange
46 three pointers

[PhantomDashCam]

The mid range numbers are disappointing. Worse than I thought.

The argument of “system” and “player” needs to come in here.
https://statsbywill.com/2021/02/23/tennessee-midrange-jumpers-2021/

Without a doubt Jaden leans into mid range jumpers more than most guards. It’s very much a staple of his game.

I would argue though, if you put him in a system where 3s are required, he’ll make the necessary adjustments.
He’s still developing his range and doing things at 18 years old that most of these prospects will only dream of doing at any stage of their career.

The guy has won at every level, in a variety of roles, always coming in at one of the youngest amongst his peers. Not sure why people should doubt him now. The kid is an absolute stud.


https://youtu.be/B3W5ibFznG4

[Dejounte]

Where are you getting your numbers? I'm looking at this article: https://www.prospectiveinsight.com/post/scouting-jaden-springer

They have:
118 shots in restricted area
64 shots from midrange
46 three pointers

barttovik.com

It appears the default filter for the numbers I posted is for the full regular season without the tournament. The numbers in your website combines both. I could combine both and re-do everyone but it would have to be tomorrow. Not sure if that would be an even playing field though since some teams get knocked out of the tournament earlier than others. We will see tomorrow.

[Dejounte]

Where are you getting your numbers? I'm looking at this article: https://www.prospectiveinsight.com/post/scouting-jaden-springer

They have:
118 shots in restricted area
64 shots from midrange
46 three pointers


I know you added the numbers using the diagram in the link but something is off here.

under shooting, it says:
”0.740 PPP on 104 jumpshots in HC (37.0% eFG); currently has heavy preference to mid-range > 3”

which contradicts the numbers you have.

I am in bed already so I’ll have to check tomorrow what’s wrong here.

[Dejounte]

The argument of “system” and “player” needs to come in here.
https://statsbywill.com/2021/02/23/tennessee-midrange-jumpers-2021/

Without a doubt Jaden leans into mid range jumpers more than most guards. It’s very much a staple of his game.

I would argue though, if you put him in a system where 3s are required, he’ll make the necessary adjustments.
He’s still developing his range and doing things at 18 years old that most of these prospects will only dream of doing at any stage of their career.

The guy has won at every level, in a variety of roles, always coming in at one of the youngest amongst his peers. Not sure why people should doubt him now. The kid is an absolute stud.


https://youtu.be/B3W5ibFznG4


Sincere question: what exactly has Springer accomplished that “most prospects would only dream of doing”? These sound like hyperbolic statements…

[TD 21]

Bouknight is intriguing. According to Givony, he measured well, posted an impressive performance in his pro day and looked like one of the best shooters at the combine and his combination of athleticism, shot creation and confidence give him a legit chance at being an offensive focal point and a non zero chance at becoming a star.

As alfahdlan said, he looks like what we hoped and wanted Walker IV would be.




Jalen Johnson is a heavy no. Sengun I'm unsure about. Wagner is at or near the top of the list.

If you read through the pages here you'll see many other options and not feel so lost.

I don't know how you got lost out of asking who people think (as opposed to want) the Spurs could draft, if the obvious are gone.

[exstatic]

I would say this is accurate. Of everyone mentioned so far, Kai and Scottie Barnes shot reeeeally poorly from the free throw line. Their future shooting outlook doesn’t look good as a result.

Jalen J and Giddey are pretty poor from the line, too.

[R. DeMurre]

I know you added the numbers using the diagram in the link but something is off here.

under shooting, it says:
”0.740 PPP on 104 jumpshots in HC (37.0% eFG); currently has heavy preference to mid-range > 3”

which contradicts the numbers you have.

I am in bed already so I’ll have to check tomorrow what’s wrong here.

Yeah, something is wonky. I read one scouting report earlier today that said Springer needs to "trust his jump shot more," and I thought, that's odd-- his rep is that he's an old school mid range guy. I've been looking at more tape and he does get to the paint quite a bit, but those numbers still seem a little skewed to me.

[Mr. Body]

I don't know how you got lost out of asking who people think (as opposed to want) the Spurs could draft, if the obvious are gone.

People in this thread have talked about literally a dozen players or more and you only came up with three. If youw ant to know what other options are, it's not a tremendous secret.

[PhantomDashCam]

Sincere question: what exactly has Springer accomplished that “most prospects would only dream of doing”? These sound like hyperbolic statements…


Sure thing. From his Wiki page - reputable links at the bottom of the bio.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaden_Springer

A sample of some of his accomplishments:


In his first two years of high school, he played for Rocky River High School (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_River_High_School_(North_Carolina)) in Mint Hill, North Carolina (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mint_Hill,_North_Carolina), being drawn by head basketball coach Jermaine Walker despite academic and disciplinary concerns about the school.[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaden_Springer#cite_note-mclamb-2) In his freshman season, Springer averaged 21.8 points, 9.4 rebounds and five assists per game and led his team to its first state tournament appearance.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaden_Springer#cite_note-usab-3) As a sophomore, he averaged 24.7 points, 10.2 rebounds, 2.4 steals and 2.4 blocks per game, helping Rocky River reach the Class 4A state semifinals.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaden_Springer#cite_note-divens-4) He was named Southwestern 4A Player of the Year.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaden_Springer#cite_note-5) Entering his junior and senior seasons, Springer transferred to IMG Academy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMG_Academy) in Bradenton, Florida (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradenton,_Florida).[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaden_Springer#cite_note-6) He joined one of the best teams in the country and became teammates with top recruits Armando Bacot (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armando_Bacot), Josh Green (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Green_(basketball)) and Jeremiah Robinson-Earl (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Robinson-Earl).[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaden_Springer#cite_note-7) As a junior, Springer averaged 15.6 points, four rebounds and four assists, helping his team win GEICO High School Nationals (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_School_Showcase).[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaden_Springer#cite_note-8) He scored 26 points in a 74–73 semifinal win over Montverde Academy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montverde_Academy).[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaden_Springer#cite_note-9) In his senior season, Springer averaged 17.4 points, 5.5 rebounds and 5.1 assists per game for IMG. He played through an ankle injury throughout the season and was in turn sidelined from some games.[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaden_Springer#cite_note-10)[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaden_Springer#cite_note-11) Springer was selected to play in the McDonald's All-American Game (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_McDonald%27s_All-American_Boys_Game), which was canceled due to the COVID-19 pandemic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic).[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaden_Springer#cite_note-12)



Prep honors:


2017 MaxPreps Freshman All-American second team.
2017 Charlotte Observer All-Mecklenburg Team.
2017 All-Southwestern 4A Conference.
2017 Runna Report Freshman of the Year.
2017 UABasketball Elite 24 Rising Freshman Game MVP.
2016 Lighthouse Christian School (Tenn.) Most Outstanding Player.


* 2018 Pangos All American Camp Top 30 Cream of The Crop Game - Named Top 5 of Camp by nbadraft.net
* 2020 McDonalds All American (Game cancelled due to Covid)
* 2021 SEC All-Freshman Team

[Mr. Body]

I think it's right to keep an eye on Springer. There's something about Rick Barnes recruits -- he's extremely limited as a coach, but he finds good players -- but ultimately I don't think the Spurs will go for a pure guard, they'll have to pull a wing or center.

[objective]

I'm still liking Sengun even though watching him more makes him look smaller and smaller. He was that giraffe like neck that gives him like an extra inch, because his shoulder height isn't so tall.

But I even love it when I see stuff like this play (this thread has been going on so long maybe this exact play has been talked about and that's why I noticed it on the rewatch, so credit to whoever posted this earlier):


https://youtu.be/JcGs9Ts8q_M?t=1701

At about the 28:21 mark in the video is him helping on the drive, the driver kicks, and Sengun does the basic and correct thing to immediately find a guy, in this case it was his guy, and box out and rebound. No standing around, no watching, no pointing, no shoe wiping, he just does the fundamental thing.

A simple little play that might seem like no big deal, he's a big after all and boxing out is supposed to be his job. But there's been too many times when Spurs players might contest or help but then decide that their job is done and they don't have to box out anyone or rebound. The year before they basically lost a home game to Phoenix after Forbes refused to box anyone out and there was a simple wide open offensive rebound and putback, because Forbes decided he was done. I know he's not a big but it's a team game and everyone needs play along.

But defense doesn't stop until the possession changes. The little things like hustling to box out matter a lot to me.

[Mr. Body]

I'm still liking Sengun even though watching him more makes him look smaller and smaller. He was that giraffe like neck that gives him like an extra inch, because his shoulder height isn't so tall.

But I even love it when I see stuff like this play (this thread has been going on so long maybe this exact play has been talked about and that's why I noticed it on the rewatch, so credit to whoever posted this earlier):


https://youtu.be/JcGs9Ts8q_M?t=1701

At about the 28:21 mark in the video is him helping on the drive, the driver kicks, and Sengun does the basic and correct thing to immediately find a guy, in this case it was his guy, and box out and rebound. No standing around, no watching, no pointing, no shoe wiping, he just does the fundamental thing.

A simple little play that might seem like no big deal, he's a big after all and boxing out is supposed to be his job. But there's been too many times when Spurs players might contest or help but then decide that their job is done and they don't have to box out anyone or rebound. The year before they basically lost a home game to Phoenix after Forbes refused to box anyone out and there was a simple wide open offensive rebound and putback, because Forbes decided he was done. I know he's not a big but it's a team game and everyone needs play along.

But defense doesn't stop until the possession changes. The little things like hustling to box out matter a lot to me.

Sengun remains very intriguing. It may depend on how he projects as a stretch 4. His post footwork is amazing for his age, but it's like being an exceptional biplane fighter in an age of jet planes. Can he be a reliable 3-point shooter? His form looks good. I can see a terrific roller, but can he set hard picks? He seems to be a strong rebounder and his athletic limitations may not be terrible on defense -- positioning is key, and a guy like Jared Dudley had a long career despite being much slower. He's a very smart player, and young, so the question is how he develops. Can we see him pairing with Poeltl, for example?

Ultimately, I don't see the Spurs in the market for a big man at all. Jakob is both inexpensive and a good defensive center. Does he leave some things on the table? Yes, sure. It'd be great if he could shoot. I'm very bullish on Eubanks as a backup center. Sure, he's limited, but he's a hardass, plays super fucking hard, and also is still improving. I definitely don't see Kai Jones as an option, and the draft is pretty weak on bigs in general. There are some good options early in the second round. But then there's Sengun, who is so different and remains intriguing.

[The Truth #6]

Sengun remains very intriguing. It may depend on how he projects as a stretch 4. His post footwork is amazing for his age, but it's like being an exceptional biplane fighter in an age of jet planes. Can he be a reliable 3-point shooter? His form looks good. I can see a terrific roller, but can he set hard picks? He seems to be a strong rebounder and his athletic limitations may not be terrible on defense -- positioning is key, and a guy like Jared Dudley had a long career despite being much slower. He's a very smart player, and young, so the question is how he develops. Can we see him pairing with Poeltl, for example?

Ultimately, I don't see the Spurs in the market for a big man at all. Jakob is both inexpensive and a good defensive center. Does he leave some things on the table? Yes, sure. It'd be great if he could shoot. I'm very bullish on Eubanks as a backup center. Sure, he's limited, but he's a hardass, plays super fucking hard, and also is still improving. I definitely don't see Kai Jones as an option, and the draft is pretty weak on bigs in general. There are some good options early in the second round. But then there's Sengun, who is so different and remains intriguing.

Good points. I suppose it depends who is still available, but I’m ok with picking Sengun. I trust his 3 point shot to develop. His defense in space is my biggest concern.

[The Truth #6]

Sure thing. From his Wiki page - reputable links at the bottom of the bio.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaden_Springer

A sample of some of his accomplishments:



Prep honors:


2017 MaxPreps Freshman All-American second team.
2017 Charlotte Observer All-Mecklenburg Team.
2017 All-Southwestern 4A Conference.
2017 Runna Report Freshman of the Year.
2017 UABasketball Elite 24 Rising Freshman Game MVP.
2016 Lighthouse Christian School (Tenn.) Most Outstanding Player.


* 2018 Pangos All American Camp Top 30 Cream of The Crop Game - Named Top 5 of Camp by nbadraft.net
* 2020 McDonalds All American (Game cancelled due to Covid)
* 2021 SEC All-Freshman Team



Springer is still my preferred pick in that he is good on offense and defense, has good character, a history of winning, is a good shooter, and shouldn’t ever be a liability, while has plenty of upside. Everyone else has potential fatal flaws. (Moody being the possible exception). He’s already a bruising power guard while being the youngest American in the draft.

The problem is we have Lonnie. I like Lonnie and want to give him another year, but I’m open to trading.

[Mr. Body]

Good points. I suppose it depends who is still available, but I’m ok with picking Sengun. I trust his 3 point shot to develop. His defense in space is my biggest concern.

I don't even think Sengun is that slow and think his defensive woes are overblown, but then I see him as a stretch four instead of a center. I think he'll be better than Jokic guarding in space, for example, but not down low. One of his appeals beyond his basketball smarts is his motor. The guy moves and hustles. That, plus his sensibility, will make up for a lot. Again, it's down low defense that may be an issue (Embiid, Jokic).

[The Truth #6]

I don't even think Sengun is that slow and think his defensive woes are overblown, but then I see him as a stretch four instead of a center. I think he'll be better than Jokic guarding in space, for example, but not down low. One of his appeals beyond his basketball smarts is his motor. The guy moves and hustles. That, plus his sensibility, will make up for a lot. Again, it's down low defense that may be an issue (Embiid, Jokic).

That’s a promising, positive prognostication. I like it. I see him as having to be a stretch 4 ultimately as well. But if your biggest concern is post defense, I think he is super strong but doesn’t have the length. But Embiid and Jokic are MVP talents so it’s hard for anyone to guard them.

[John B]

I don't even think Sengun is that slow and think his defensive woes are overblown, but then I see him as a stretch four instead of a center. I think he'll be better than Jokic guarding in space, for example, but not down low. One of his appeals beyond his basketball smarts is his motor. The guy moves and hustles. That, plus his sensibility, will make up for a lot. Again, it's down low defense that may be an issue (Embiid, Jokic).

I have no problem picking Sengun. He has advanced footwork for his age, very high bball IQ, Doncic-like as far as maturity in his game. Yes he could be overmatched in the NBA because he likes to play big man game, back against the basket. But he’s 18, great strokes and has high motor. I’m sure he can see where he needs to improve his game in the modern NBA. He can even play a Diaw because he’s such a good passer and has great vision how plays develop. Do I think he has star potential? I think he could be a very very good 2nd tier, but not necessarily the 1st option, a Gallinari, which wouldn’t be bad for a 12th pick.

[rjv]

guess we won't be seeing giddey in the olympics as he was omitted from the final 12 man roster.

[rankingtear]

Sengun went from old school center to stretch 4 to big wing. Sengun is becoming another player in this board.

[exstatic]

Sengun went from old school center to stretch 4 to big wing. Sengun is becoming another player in this board.

Hysteria. Find one person who called him a big wing. Go ahead, I’ll wait.

[rankingtear]

Hysteria. Find one person who called him a big wing. Go ahead, I’ll wait.


I have no problem picking Sengun. He has advanced footwork for his age, very high bball IQ, Doncic-like as far as maturity in his game. Yes he could be overmatched in the NBA because he likes to play big man game, back against the basket. But he’s 18, great strokes and has high motor. I’m sure he can see where he needs to improve his game in the modern NBA. He can even play a Diaw because he’s such a good passer and has great vision how plays develop. Do I think he has star potential? I think he could be a very very good 2nd tier, but not necessarily the 1st option, a Gallinari, which wouldn’t be bad for a 12th pick.

[John B]

:lol that's out of context. I mean his star potential is a Gallinari, not a Jokic.

[exstatic]

Diaw and Gallinari are both 4s.

[TD 21]

People in this thread have talked about literally a dozen players or more and you only came up with three. If youw ant to know what other options are, it's not a tremendous secret.

Does your brain not work? I'm well aware of the players. I'm not asking for more names or information in general, I'm specifically asking who people think the Spurs could select outside of typical candidates. There's nothing complicated about this.

[John B]

Diaw and Gallinari are both 4s.

Yes he should be playing more a 4 or a small ball 5. I don't have problem with Sengun, I think he's a very safe pick, likewise Wagner or Duarte. I really think Spurs would pick one of them. I would be happier with Duarte.

But again my personal preference is Jalen Johnson, as mentioned because of his high Star potential. Boom or bust for me at this point.

[rankingtear]

Diaw and Gallinari are both 4s.

a 4 can be a wing. positionless nba = guard , wings, bigmen.

[R. DeMurre]

Players who are out and why:

-Kispert - not really a scorer from mid-range & not a reputable defender
-Usman Garuba - for obvious reasons
-Keon & Springer - shot profile consists mostly of mid-range shots
-Kai Jones - not a mid-range scorer, hardly a 3 pt shooter
-Giddey - Poor defender, work-in-progress shooter
-Sengun & Jalen Johnson - Weak perimeter defender

Obviously, this is all speculation and they could go a different route.


ah, I did it awhile back, that’s why I didn’t bother to do it. Here you go:

65.8% close - 76 attempts
34.9% mid - 106 attempts
43.5% 3’s - 46 attempts

as I mentioned, a very mid-range heavy shooting archetype. Just not convinced that’s the type the Spurs would go for with the current roster construction, but obviously could be wrong.

Shot profiles don’t drastically change overnight. Yes, Springer could increase the volume he takes 3’s, but usually it’s an indicator of what a player is comfortable doing. There will be a learning curve for Springer to feel comfortable shooting 3s at a higher rate on a consistent basis, and I’m not sure Spurs fans would be that patient about it.


Where are you getting your numbers? I'm looking at this article: https://www.prospectiveinsight.com/post/scouting-jaden-springer

They have:
118 shots in restricted area
64 shots from midrange
46 three pointers


I know you added the numbers using the diagram in the link but something is off here.

under shooting, it says:
”0.740 PPP on 104 jumpshots in HC (37.0% eFG); currently has heavy preference to mid-range > 3”

which contradicts the numbers you have.

I am in bed already so I’ll have to check tomorrow what’s wrong here.

So I decided to do a deep dive into Springer after watching a little bit of tape and then reading some very contradictory scouting reports on him-- especially one that seemed more thorough than most and said he needed to have more faith in his jump shot. This stood out to me because he's been characterized over and over as a throw back mid range guy. After watching about 8 key games (vs Georgia, Arkansas, Florida, Alabama, etc) over the course of a couple of hours, I have to say the tag of mid range shooter for Springer is not accurate. The overwhelming majority of his shots are in the paint, from restricted area attempts back out to a step inside the free throw line. If people think he's going to take lots of DeRozan style 15'-20' jumpers, they're going to be surprised by his shot selection. He very rarely takes long twos... almost never.

[Dejounte]

So I decided to do a deep dive into Springer after watching a little bit of tape and then reading some very contradictory scouting reports on him-- especially one that seemed more thorough than most and said he needed to have more faith in his jump shot. This stood out to me because he's been characterized over and over as a throw back mid range guy. After watching about 8 key games (vs Georgia, Arkansas, Florida, Alabama, etc) over the course of a couple of hours, I have to say the tag of mid range shooter for Springer is not accurate. The overwhelming majority of his shots are in the paint, from restricted area attempts back out to a step inside the free throw line. If people think he's going to take lots of DeRozan style 15'-20' jumpers, they're going to be surprised by his shot selection. He very rarely takes long twos... almost never.

So I’m at work but I’ll give you a quick reply

1) you mentioned you watched eight games. Is that an honest representation of the 22 total games he played? What if in those eight games, he decided he wanted to attack the basket because of the matchup? Just something to consider.
2) we don’t actually know how these shots were counted. It is possible that floaters from away the basket is interpreted by you as a close range shot, meanwhile to them it is a mid range 2.

i will look into this deeper later.

[exstatic]

a 4 can be a wing. positionless nba = guard , wings, bigmen.

The goalposts be amovin’.

[The Truth #6]

So I decided to do a deep dive into Springer after watching a little bit of tape and then reading some very contradictory scouting reports on him-- especially one that seemed more thorough than most and said he needed to have more faith in his jump shot. This stood out to me because he's been characterized over and over as a throw back mid range guy. After watching about 8 key games (vs Georgia, Arkansas, Florida, Alabama, etc) over the course of a couple of hours, I have to say the tag of mid range shooter for Springer is not accurate. The overwhelming majority of his shots are in the paint, from restricted area attempts back out to a step inside the free throw line. If people think he's going to take lots of DeRozan style 15'-20' jumpers, they're going to be surprised by his shot selection. He very rarely takes long twos... almost never.

One thorough online analysis said that much of his mid range came from an initial post up, which is way more enticing than the dreaded Derozan 2’s, and speaks to his label as a power guard, which also sounds enticing.

[Mr. Body]

More I think about Sengun, more I really like the idea of a pick. But ultimately I think Toronto will nab him. Especially if they do the Siakam trade for #7 that's been widely rumored, they get him.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/jeffgspurszone/status/1412513118643761156?s=21

if this quote is any indication of future moves, they are not drafting Sengun.

[Dejounte]

Sure thing. From his Wiki page - reputable links at the bottom of the bio.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaden_Springer

A sample of some of his accomplishments:



Prep honors:


2017 MaxPreps Freshman All-American second team.
2017 Charlotte Observer All-Mecklenburg Team.
2017 All-Southwestern 4A Conference.
2017 Runna Report Freshman of the Year.
2017 UABasketball Elite 24 Rising Freshman Game MVP.
2016 Lighthouse Christian School (Tenn.) Most Outstanding Player.


* 2018 Pangos All American Camp Top 30 Cream of The Crop Game - Named Top 5 of Camp by nbadraft.net
* 2020 McDonalds All American (Game cancelled due to Covid)
* 2021 SEC All-Freshman Team

I don’t see anything on here that likely most other prospects also have, but I’ll see if I can pull up those achievements later.

[PhantomDashCam]

https://youtu.be/VDNvJgD6Sok

The comments of Kai post workout are encouraging. It’s exactly why I would love to bring him in for a session with the Spurs.

[BackHome]

Yeah for me the interview of someone is the key if your a good interviewer you can easily read through the bull shit and determine if that person will be a good fit.

He seems he is a smart kid and will definitely put in the work and be open to coaching and won't be one of those Drama/News Whore. I would not be mad with the pick in all honesty I don't have a single player that I am married to I trust the organization to pick the right player and I will support who ever is picked.

Now in the second round I do have some pet Cats and they are;
1.Joe Wisekamp - SF
2. Herb Jones - SF
3. Filip Petrusev - PF/C
4. Kessler Edwards - SF

[KobesAchilles]

I either want Springer or Duarte. They are both two completely different players and about as far off as one could be. Duarte looks like a more ready now prospect and has the sweetest jumper in college. He has step back and side step 3s which are very hard for player to learn. Most don’t.

Meanwhile Springer is never gonna be the shooter that Duarte is. But his athleticism and motor are beyond fantastic. He looks hungry and eager to learn. Unlike Lonnie, he doesn’t look scared of contact. He could also become a fantastic defender which is something Duarte really can’t become. I’m fine with either player

[alfahdlan]

3’s? He is already on it.
https://twitter.com/draftexpress/status/1408933504663097350

[Degoat]

I just can’t see the spurs going with a guard in this draft, it’s either gonna be a big wing or a big man imo

[Degoat]

3’s? He is already on it.
https://twitter.com/draftexpress/status/1408933504663097350

I think he’s going top 10 for sure, he’s really gifted offensively

[alfahdlan]

I just can’t see the spurs going with a guard in this draft, it’s either gonna be a big wing or a big man imo

I feel you. But it’s hard to pass on a shot creator and has an upside.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

https://youtu.be/VDNvJgD6Sok

The comments of Kai post workout are encouraging. It’s exactly why I would love to bring him in for a session with the Spurs.

Kai Jones is so soft-spoken and yet so confident. And he is such a warm and mellow guy - a spur type of person. I'll cry if another teams pick up him before San Antonio. If he is available at 12, I don't believe Brian Wright will pass him. He will be a super star. within a few years.

[The Truth #6]

3’s? He is already on it.
https://twitter.com/draftexpress/status/1408933504663097350

I trust the talent but don’t trust him, basically. I’d rather not risk a pick on him. Just my personal opinion and I think the Spurs might feel the same.

[The Truth #6]

I either want Springer or Duarte. They are both two completely different players and about as far off as one could be. Duarte looks like a more ready now prospect and has the sweetest jumper in college. He has step back and side step 3s which are very hard for player to learn. Most don’t.

Meanwhile Springer is never gonna be the shooter that Duarte is. But his athleticism and motor are beyond fantastic. He looks hungry and eager to learn. Unlike Lonnie, he doesn’t look scared of contact. He could also become a fantastic defender which is something Duarte really can’t become. I’m fine with either player

I agree.

I think which players have a 3/D floor, good character and no obvious holes in their game:

Moody
Springer
Wagner
Duarte

To me, that’s the list.

[Dejounte]

Kai Jones is so soft-spoken and yet so confident. And he is such a warm and mellow guy - a spur type of person. I'll cry if another teams pick up him before San Antonio. If he is available at 12, I don't believe Brian Wright will pass him. He will be a super star. within a few years.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/027/763/07B89120-B48D-45FB-AF1D-49AF6CD16790.jpg

[Dejounte]

I either want Springer or Duarte. They are both two completely different players and about as far off as one could be. Duarte looks like a more ready now prospect and has the sweetest jumper in college. He has step back and side step 3s which are very hard for player to learn. Most don’t.

Meanwhile Springer is never gonna be the shooter that Duarte is. But his athleticism and motor are beyond fantastic. He looks hungry and eager to learn. Unlike Lonnie, he doesn’t look scared of contact. He could also become a fantastic defender which is something Duarte really can’t become. I’m fine with either player

So you go from complaining about current Spurs players who hesitate to take 3s to yet another guy in the draft who hesitates with shooting 3s lmao

[Manu&Duncan fan]

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/027/763/07B89120-B48D-45FB-AF1D-49AF6CD16790.jpg

Kai Jones: Play basketball with ferocity; Talks with gentleness and warmth yet with confidence. Tim Duncan II is coming! (even though he is warmer than Duncan and his game is more suitable to modern basketball. I watched so many highlights of scorers and creators, Kai is still my man. Jalen Johnson also has super-star potential, but I like unselfish and friendly guys which is very important for team cohesion.

[Dejounte]

If the Spurs go for yet another guard, let it be for a guard who IS different and not someone who COULD BE different because we believe in our minds they’ll drastically change their style of play overnight.

[R. DeMurre]

The argument of “system” and “player” needs to come in here.
https://statsbywill.com/2021/02/23/tennessee-midrange-jumpers-2021/

Without a doubt Jaden leans into mid range jumpers more than most guards. It’s very much a staple of his game.

I would argue though, if you put him in a system where 3s are required, he’ll make the necessary adjustments.
He’s still developing his range and doing things at 18 years old that most of these prospects will only dream of doing at any stage of their career.

The guy has won at every level, in a variety of roles, always coming in at one of the youngest amongst his peers. Not sure why people should doubt him now. The kid is an absolute stud.


https://youtu.be/B3W5ibFznG4

This is getting kinda funny, but looking at this video and three other highlight compilations, plus highlights from eight games, I'm not seeing Springer shoot any mid range shots! Is the entire scouting world trolling me? :lol

I feel like I've now easily seen 100-150 FGA from Springer (he attempted 227 total on the season) and maybe three or four were mid range shots, but one of those was a three point attempt that he made with his toe on the line! From what I've seen he takes almost exclusively shots in the paint and three pointers, and avoids traditional mid range shots like the plague. I'm just not seeing this old school throw back mid range guy that reports are referring to at all.

[PhantomDashCam]

Kai Jones is so soft-spoken and yet so confident. And he is such a warm and mellow guy - a spur type of person. I'll cry if another teams pick up him before San Antonio. If he is available at 12, I don't believe Brian Wright will pass him. He will be a super star. within a few years.


Yeah, my concerns are with Orlando and Charlotte as the likely takers before us.

Having a guy like Jonathon Isaac to learn from and potentially pair with might be too much to pass up on at #8.

[Dejounte]

This is getting kinda funny, but looking at this video and three other highlight compilations, plus highlights from eight games, I'm not seeing Springer shoot any mid range shots! Is the entire scouting world trolling me? :lol

I feel like I've now easily seen 100-150 FGA from Springer (he attempted 227 total on the season) and maybe three or four were mid range shots, but one of those was a three point attempt that he made with his toe on the line! From what I've seen he takes almost exclusively shots in the paint and three pointers, and avoids traditional mid range shots like the plague. I'm just not seeing this old school throw back mid range guy that reports are referring to at all.

a lot of mid range shots here


https://youtu.be/azZAL0memi4

[Dejounte]

The reason you are not seeing many is because very few channels show lowlights. Springer missed a lot of his mid range shots, and only made very few (ironic since it’s the shot he liked most). Not many videos will capture that.

[Degoat]

Idk if I’m just not paying attention but you know what prospect I haven’t heard a peep about is Jonathan Kuminga lol I know he’s projected as a top 6 pick but I haven’t seen anything about him online, y’all think there’s a chance he could fall a couple of spots in the draft and the spurs trade up to grab him?

[tonight...you]

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/027/763/07B89120-B48D-45FB-AF1D-49AF6CD16790.jpg
Oh wow. Bleach his hair and you have Perfect Tommy from Buckaroo Banzai!

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/fKHaNIEa6kA/maxresdefault.jpg

[bluebellmaniac]

Idk if I’m just not paying attention but you know what prospect I haven’t heard a peep about is Jonathan Kuminga lol I know he’s projected as a top 6 pick but I haven’t seen anything about him online, y’all think there’s a chance he could fall a couple of spots in the draft and the spurs trade up to grab him?

No

[duncan2150]

I'm not a fan of Springer and I don't see his value on the spurs.
Imo he's a good defender but we already have two good defensive guards in murray and white. Plus his offense near the basket is not what the spurs need actually.

If i take a guard i will go with the instant offense of bouknight or maybe the ceilling of K Johnson.

[PhantomDashCam]

This is getting kinda funny, but looking at this video and three other highlight compilations, plus highlights from eight games, I'm not seeing Springer shoot any mid range shots! Is the entire scouting world trolling me? :lol

I feel like I've now easily seen 100-150 FGA from Springer (he attempted 227 total on the season) and maybe three or four were mid range shots, but one of those was a three point attempt that he made with his toe on the line! From what I've seen he takes almost exclusively shots in the paint and three pointers, and avoids traditional mid range shots like the plague. I'm just not seeing this old school throw back mid range guy that reports are referring to at all.

:lol Nah, no trolling. He definitely takes mid range shots, I would say it's his bread and butter.

From the Stepien scouting report:
https://www.thestepien.com/2021/05/13/jaden-springer-scouting-report/

Offense

A lot of optimism for the development of Jaden Springer’s offensive game stems from his age. Springer will still be 18 years old when he is inevitably drafted at the end of July. His September 2002 birthday makes him a full year younger than fellow top freshmen Cade Cunningham, Evan Mobley, and Jalen Suggs. This age gap makes it even more impressive that Springer was able to lead a ranked Volunteers team with 19.3 points and 4.5 assists per 40 minutes.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/Q7dRFnmMNlzGXxi6HwsHieVd26VeasrG4Cl7nW54F_IYjx4Qzp V83q8XGjcXPcEfj_8sR93zyi3x1bm5_LnthfGj0j2OuC8cUHTT CLx_hiyq-EnEhc3_2XMxXEyJutL-K6ZP-UaQ Shooting:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/fJz19UZzx5u-ZlFXJuMl1MpWLc4R_Rp4wpbJG1EKy5y6GEAJAjq31HkJyvjRgK SY8PkkYKy5-9SJKiq2oHNrPyIv5eaCBlR2W06h2C884dRyP3HZnhP_WM_F014 hgBX7EmgLeaDR https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/o_QtkvXGhTvITx1Rd5noRZcbK5sNxTJmDQ9WpkxoCjqg7xmZTf jjT0Z4S_jtQwUUwbUTyN42LpXhA6YRnCxuVALzZuYdeYpFqMLf cRVXSwbuO0gI_t1zUidj-rvnsS4arU_jYwqz Closer to a fine shooter than a good one at this point early in his career. Shot a respectable 81% from the free throw line to go with 43.5% from the three point line on just 2.8 attempts per 40 minutes during his freshman year at Tennessee. Low volume three point shooter especially early in the season. Didn’t attempt 4 three pointers in a game until his 15th game of the season, a February 6th win against Kentucky. Has a relatively long release which will need to be sped up a bit, but his high release point should allow him to get shots up against NBA length. He turned down a few too many open catch and shoot 3’s. Comfortable shooting off the dribble in the midrange despite a low percentage from that area in college. A low hanging fruit in his shooting development would be trading in those off the dribble 2’s for more efficient 3’s. The third shot below gives confidence that he will be able to make that step as he gets older and stronger despite his legs flaring out a bit at the end of the shot.

And compared to say James Bouknight:
https://rollcallsportsnet.com/james-bouknight-nba-draft-scouting-report/

Synergy Offensive Profile

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/bLaL6MQqNwBelvKHZAkwmbvTYBz2oiK0jSgM_NvWWvqe8P_IHV 2tPKcCowboSp1Wc4tlKwgzpu0moSncZIB9fy5gyvHysgmbsPk-Y9SHfNPUZOne_j1NBAH61bb6dVdov8YL7Q4c https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/5jazqFjN-h7oYq19nI4bvK23S9rnuOmdPELepdbCLJWaf5AuPG3q0LDphFR 8vqRq6VR7d2U4ub9Ia7_GMk2IiEhpm208uFxE6vpMypgAD_yVY qgieYlXSDMcv8_pEvRzBK6gLWs_

The big thing between the two for me, is shot discretion:

C&S Half Court -

Bouknight shoots 75.7 % of his catch and shoot jumpers in the half court contested (!).
Jaden Springer shoots 64.3% of his catch and shoot jumpers in the half court uncontested.

[Degoat]

No

Yes

[The Truth #6]

If the Spurs go for yet another guard, let it be for a guard who IS different and not someone who COULD BE different because we believe in our minds they’ll drastically change their style of play overnight.

Sounds like you’re referring to Springer. I think that’s a legitimate concern but perhaps overstating things. What I see is a power guard who can’t be moved on defense, and who is very good scoring at the rim using his impressive strength, as an 18 year old who should just be finishing high school. Sign me up. Sounds like a Keldon in that specific regard and fans love that. Springer is a good 3 point shooter but prefers to use his strength closer to the rim, some of which may have been Barnes’ odd preference as Keon had a similar issue. I think it’s going to be way easier to get Springer to increase his three attempts then, say, get Lonnie to seek out contact. In that sense he’s a different type of player than what we have.

My concern is that he jumps off two feet too much which limits his ability to dance around the rim and eurostep et cetera.

[The Truth #6]

I googled Jaden Springer mid range and found this video. It’s hilarious in a good way. The video calls him a mid range maestro or something like that, but the actual highlights show just as many 3s as shots in the paint. Are people calling a jump shot in the paint as mid range? I see a three level scorer in this video that ironically tries to highlight his archaic mid range game.

https://youtu.be/SpUsTndw0xk

[Mr. Body]

Idk if I’m just not paying attention but you know what prospect I haven’t heard a peep about is Jonathan Kuminga lol I know he’s projected as a top 6 pick but I haven’t seen anything about him online, y’all think there’s a chance he could fall a couple of spots in the draft and the spurs trade up to grab him?

There's a decent amount of chatter around Kuminga, although more attention is being paid to the 2-4 picks, Green/Mobley sorts of stuff. There's a question for some whether Scottie Barnes goes before Kuminga.

For me, I have big questions about those G-League guys, guys who didn't want to play college. I have issues with the NCAA, but the G-League? There's not a single game that matters in the G-League, not like in-Conference games or the Tournament. Plus they're allowed to just do whatever the fuck they want on the court. They aren't coached to be coachable, etc. To me, basically, you get Brandon Jennings again. Or Jonathan Wiseman, in a different vein. Players who have no clue how to get better, grind out wins, or play in a team. I think the bust potential is very high.

[R. DeMurre]

a lot of mid range shots here


https://youtu.be/azZAL0memi4

I just watched that one a few hours ago, and yeah-- Springer does like that shot from the elbow, or a few feet inside the elbow. But shots between 16' and 20'? Almost nonexistent.

[BackHome]

Oh wow. Bleach his hair and you have Perfect Tommy from Buckaroo Banzai!

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/fKHaNIEa6kA/maxresdefault.jpg

Is That Pop In The Background?

[R. DeMurre]

:lol Nah, no trolling. He definitely takes mid range shots, I would say it's his bread and butter.

From the Stepien scouting report:
https://www.thestepien.com/2021/05/13/jaden-springer-scouting-report/

Offense

A lot of optimism for the development of Jaden Springer’s offensive game stems from his age. Springer will still be 18 years old when he is inevitably drafted at the end of July. His September 2002 birthday makes him a full year younger than fellow top freshmen Cade Cunningham, Evan Mobley, and Jalen Suggs. This age gap makes it even more impressive that Springer was able to lead a ranked Volunteers team with 19.3 points and 4.5 assists per 40 minutes.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/Q7dRFnmMNlzGXxi6HwsHieVd26VeasrG4Cl7nW54F_IYjx4Qzp V83q8XGjcXPcEfj_8sR93zyi3x1bm5_LnthfGj0j2OuC8cUHTT CLx_hiyq-EnEhc3_2XMxXEyJutL-K6ZP-UaQ Shooting:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/fJz19UZzx5u-ZlFXJuMl1MpWLc4R_Rp4wpbJG1EKy5y6GEAJAjq31HkJyvjRgK SY8PkkYKy5-9SJKiq2oHNrPyIv5eaCBlR2W06h2C884dRyP3HZnhP_WM_F014 hgBX7EmgLeaDR https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/o_QtkvXGhTvITx1Rd5noRZcbK5sNxTJmDQ9WpkxoCjqg7xmZTf jjT0Z4S_jtQwUUwbUTyN42LpXhA6YRnCxuVALzZuYdeYpFqMLf cRVXSwbuO0gI_t1zUidj-rvnsS4arU_jYwqz Closer to a fine shooter than a good one at this point early in his career. Shot a respectable 81% from the free throw line to go with 43.5% from the three point line on just 2.8 attempts per 40 minutes during his freshman year at Tennessee. Low volume three point shooter especially early in the season. Didn’t attempt 4 three pointers in a game until his 15th game of the season, a February 6th win against Kentucky. Has a relatively long release which will need to be sped up a bit, but his high release point should allow him to get shots up against NBA length. He turned down a few too many open catch and shoot 3’s. Comfortable shooting off the dribble in the midrange despite a low percentage from that area in college. A low hanging fruit in his shooting development would be trading in those off the dribble 2’s for more efficient 3’s. The third shot below gives confidence that he will be able to make that step as he gets older and stronger despite his legs flaring out a bit at the end of the shot.

And compared to say James Bouknight:
https://rollcallsportsnet.com/james-bouknight-nba-draft-scouting-report/

Synergy Offensive Profile

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/bLaL6MQqNwBelvKHZAkwmbvTYBz2oiK0jSgM_NvWWvqe8P_IHV 2tPKcCowboSp1Wc4tlKwgzpu0moSncZIB9fy5gyvHysgmbsPk-Y9SHfNPUZOne_j1NBAH61bb6dVdov8YL7Q4c https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/5jazqFjN-h7oYq19nI4bvK23S9rnuOmdPELepdbCLJWaf5AuPG3q0LDphFR 8vqRq6VR7d2U4ub9Ia7_GMk2IiEhpm208uFxE6vpMypgAD_yVY qgieYlXSDMcv8_pEvRzBK6gLWs_

The big thing between the two for me, is shot discretion:

C&S Half Court -

Bouknight shoots 75.7 % of his catch and shoot jumpers in the half court contested (!).
Jaden Springer shoots 64.3% of his catch and shoot jumpers in the half court uncontested.

The category of jump shot labeled Short (<17') is interesting, because it bundles shots that are pretty different... but now that I've watched literally every single shot that Springer took last year (:lol), I do see a lot more shots from the elbow and a step or two inside the elbow. The one chart I saw had a restricted area category, and I wonder if they were counting shots a foot or two outside the line, which are still close up shots... Good stuff.

[Dejounte]

I just watched that one a few hours ago, and yeah-- Springer does like that shot from the elbow, or a few feet inside the elbow. But shots between 16' and 20'? Almost nonexistent.

I don't know why shots between 16' and 20' are being highlighted when the area between 5' to 16' is basically the DeMar area. They're all the same type of shots and Springer doesn't shoot them well enough with any kind of consistency.

[Dejounte]

Sounds like you’re referring to Springer. I think that’s a legitimate concern but perhaps overstating things. What I see is a power guard who can’t be moved on defense, and who is very good scoring at the rim using his impressive strength, as an 18 year old who should just be finishing high school. Sign me up. Sounds like a Keldon in that specific regard and fans love that. Springer is a good 3 point shooter but prefers to use his strength closer to the rim, some of which may have been Barnes’ odd preference as Keon had a similar issue. I think it’s going to be way easier to get Springer to increase his three attempts then, say, get Lonnie to seek out contact. In that sense he’s a different type of player than what we have.

My concern is that he jumps off two feet too much which limits his ability to dance around the rim and eurostep et cetera.

This falls in line with my *could be* statement. He *could* increase his three point attempts. Whether one believes it or doesn't believe it, it's obvious most of Springer's fans think it's easily done and well... I don't think it's that realistic at all.

I don't know what good a guard who scores well at the rim would help this team in any way. That is far and away one of the team's lesser concerns. If you told me he had Dwyane Wade type athleticism and hang-time, I say go for it. But the guy is an undersized wing who isn't going to feast in the NBA just by being "strong"... he's nowhere near Baron Davis strong. He's not even explosive where he can blow by his man consistently.

Springer doesn't move the Spurs forward to the "modern era" most people have been clamoring for.

[Dejounte]

Sure thing. From his Wiki page - reputable links at the bottom of the bio.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaden_Springer

A sample of some of his accomplishments:



Prep honors:


2017 MaxPreps Freshman All-American second team.
2017 Charlotte Observer All-Mecklenburg Team.
2017 All-Southwestern 4A Conference.
2017 Runna Report Freshman of the Year.
2017 UABasketball Elite 24 Rising Freshman Game MVP.
2016 Lighthouse Christian School (Tenn.) Most Outstanding Player.


* 2018 Pangos All American Camp Top 30 Cream of The Crop Game - Named Top 5 of Camp by nbadraft.net
* 2020 McDonalds All American (Game cancelled due to Covid)
* 2021 SEC All-Freshman Team

A sample of Moody's accomplishments:


Moody began playing high school basketball for Parkview Arts and Science Magnet High School (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkview_Arts_and_Science_Magnet_High_School) in Little Rock, Arkansas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Rock,_Arkansas), where he helped his team reach the state championship game in his freshman season.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses_Moody#cite_note-inks-1) As a sophomore, he moved to North Little Rock High School (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Little_Rock_High_School) in North Little Rock, Arkansas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Little_Rock,_Arkansas). Moody averaged 18.6 points, 7.2 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 2.1 steals and 1.4 blocks per game, leading his team to the Class 7A state title.[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses_Moody#cite_note-2) He was named to the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkansas_Democrat-Gazette) All-Underclassman Team and the Arkansas 7A All-State Team.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses_Moody#cite_note-davenport-3) For his junior year, Moody transferred to Montverde Academy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montverde_Academy) in Montverde, Florida (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montverde,_Florida). He averaged 17.7 points, 3.9 rebounds, 1.5 assists and 1.6 steals per game for Bradley Beal Elite at the Nike Elite Youth Basketball League (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike_Elite_Youth_Basketball_League) (EYBL) regular season and was named to the All-EYBL honorable mention.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses_Moody#cite_note-4) In his senior season, Moody averaged 11.6 points 3.3 rebounds and 1.8 assists per game for Montverde, the consensus number one team in the nation, who he helped achieve a 25–0 regular season record

Prep honors:



Moody is the third Razorback to be tabbed AP SEC Newcomer of the Year, joining Patrick Beverley (2007) and Joe Johnson (2000).
Moody is the ninth Razorback (11 total honors) to be a consensus first team All-SEC pick. (Scotty Thurman and Corliss Williamson were two-time, consensus first team All-SEC. This is the third straight year Arkansas has produced a consensus first team All-SEC selection.)
Moody is the first Razorback freshman to be named AP first team All-SEC.
Moody earns the 13th AP first-team All-SEC honor by a Razorback.
Ranks third in the SEC in scoring and third among NCAA freshmen in scoring (17.5 ppg)
1 of 3 freshmen in the NCAA to average at least 15.0 points and 5.0 rebounds
1 of 2 SEC players – the only freshman – to average 16.0 points and 5.5 rebounds
1 of 3 SEC players – the only freshman – to rank among the league’s top 20 in scoring, rebounding, field goal percentage, free throw percentage and 3-point percentage
1 of 4 SEC players – the only freshman – to shot at least 42 percent from the field, 35 percent from 3-point range and 80 percent from the free throw line
Ranks eighth in the NCAA in free throws made while setting an Arkansas freshman record for free throws made despite a pandemic-shortened season

^ Second team All-American (Andy Katz NCAA March Madness)
^ Honorable mention All-American (AP)
^ Kyle Macy National Freshman of the Year Finalist

^ USBWA All-District VII
^ NABC first team All-District 20
^ SEC Freshman of the Year (Coaches)
^ SEC Newcomer of the Year (AP)

^ First team All-SEC (Coaches)
^ First team All-SEC (AP)
^ First team All-SEC (USA TODAY Sports Network)
^ SEC All-Freshman Team


^ 3x SEC Freshman of the Week
^ SEC Men’s Basketball Community Service Team

[Dejounte]

Sure thing. From his Wiki page - reputable links at the bottom of the bio.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaden_Springer

A sample of some of his accomplishments:



Prep honors:


2017 MaxPreps Freshman All-American second team.
2017 Charlotte Observer All-Mecklenburg Team.
2017 All-Southwestern 4A Conference.
2017 Runna Report Freshman of the Year.
2017 UABasketball Elite 24 Rising Freshman Game MVP.
2016 Lighthouse Christian School (Tenn.) Most Outstanding Player.


* 2018 Pangos All American Camp Top 30 Cream of The Crop Game - Named Top 5 of Camp by nbadraft.net
* 2020 McDonalds All American (Game cancelled due to Covid)
* 2021 SEC All-Freshman Team


Sharife Cooper

A sample of Sharife's accomplishments


In his freshman season in 2016–17, Cooper averaged 16 points and 4.4 assists per game, leading McEachern High School (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McEachern_High_School) in Powder Springs, Georgia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powder_Springs,_Georgia) to a 29–1 record and an appearance in the Georgia High School Association (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_High_School_Association) (GHSA) Class 7A state semifinals. The following year, he led the Indians to a state quarterfinals appearance while posting a 26–3 record.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharife_Cooper#cite_note-dave-1) He received considerable media attention in December 2017 for his 42-point performance against Jahvon Quinerly (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahvon_Quinerly) and nationally ranked Hudson Catholic Regional High School (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudson_Catholic_Regional_High_School) in the quarterfinals of the City of Palms Classic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Palms_Classic). He scored the game-winning buzzer-beater in an 83–81 overtime (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overtime_(sports)) victory.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharife_Cooper#cite_note-dave-1)[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharife_Cooper#cite_note-2)[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharife_Cooper#cite_note-3)

As a junior in 2018–19, Cooper led McEachern to a perfect 32–0 record and the first state title in school history while averaging 27.2 points, 8.1 assists, 5.6 rebounds and 4.3 steals per game. In the title-game win over Meadowcreek (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meadowcreek_High_School), he scored 20 points and dished four assists as McEachern finished ranked No. 1 in three national polls.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharife_Cooper#cite_note-4) He picked up most valuable player (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_valuable_player) (MVP) honors at several tournaments, including the City of Palms Classic and Tournament of Champions.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharife_Cooper#cite_note-5) After the season, he was named USA Today All-USA Player of the Year (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_Today_All-USA_high_school_basketball_team), MaxPreps National Player of the Year (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MaxPreps_National_Basketball_Player_of_the_Year_aw ards), Mr. Georgia Basketball (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Georgia_Basketball), and Georgia's Gatorade Player of the Year (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatorade_Player_of_the_Year_awards).[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharife_Cooper#cite_note-6)[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharife_Cooper#cite_note-7)[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharife_Cooper#cite_note-8)[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharife_Cooper#cite_note-9) He also earned USA Today (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_Today) All-USA first team and Naismith (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naismith_Prep_Player_of_the_Year_Award) All-American second team honors.[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharife_Cooper#cite_note-10) Cooper was selected to play in the 2020 McDonald's All-American Boys Game (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_McDonald%27s_All-American_Boys_Game) on January 23, 2020.[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharife_Cooper#cite_note-11) On May 6, 2021, Cooper's #2 high school jersey number was retired at McEachern where he was honored as the most decorated male basketball player in school history

Consensus 5-star and top-20 prospect … highest rated signee in program history, according to 247Sports … ranked as the 19th player in the country by 247Sports and ESPN and 20th by Rivals … tabbed as the No. 2 player in the state of Georgia by 247Sports and ESPN … labeled as the No. 3 point guard nationally by 247Sports and the No. 5 floor general in the country by Rivals and ESPN … became the third McDonald’s All-American signee in program history, joining Frank Ford (1983) and Korvotney Barber (2005) … tabbed a Sports Illustrated First Team All-American following his senior season … also was a Third Team Naismith All-American … played at McEachern High School … averaged 30.6 points, 7.8 assists and 3.6 steals per game as a senior … became McEachern High School’s all-time leader scorer, eclipsing 2,000 career points on senior night … guided team to second straight state Final Four … voted First Team All-Metro … as a junior, averaged 28.6 points, 8.7 assists, 6.0 rebounds and 4.1 steals per game … named the 2018-19 USA Today National Player of the Year after leading McEachern to a 32-0 record and a state title his junior year … was also named MaxPreps Basketball Player of the Year and Georgia Gatorade Player of the Year … took part in the 2019 USA Basketball Men's Junior National Team July minicamp … on the AAU circuit, played for Athletes of Tomorrow … named the Offensive Player of the Year in the Nike EYBL … averaged 25.3 points, 8.6 assists and 4.9 rebounds per game in Nike EYBL.

Named to the SEC All-Freshman Team … selected to the NABC All-District 20 Second Team … averaged 20.2 points, 8.1 assists, 4.3 rebounds and 1.0 steals in 33.0 minutes per game … played in and started 12 games … shot 39.1 percent from the floor and 82.5 percent from the charity stripe … became one of only three players since 2010 to average 20 points, eight assists and four rebounds per game (Ja Morant, Murray State, 2018-19 and Kay Felder, Oakland, 2015-16) … scored or assisted on 471 of Auburn’s 996 points (47.2 percent) when in the lineup … despite only playing in 12 games, his 97 total assists finished eighth overall in the SEC and first among freshmen … assist total was good for 15th nationally among all freshmen … was one of only three freshmen nationally to score 25 or more points at least five times during the season … joined the likes of Eric Gordon (Indiana), Tajuan Porter (Oregon), Kris Humphries (Minnesota) and Carmelo Anthony (Syracuse) as only major conference players with three 25-point games in their first four career games … only Michael Beasley (Kansas State) had more (four) … made Auburn debut against Alabama (Jan. 9) and finished with 26 points, nine assists, four rebounds and three steals in 33 minutes … with 26 points, tied Eddie Johnson for the most points scored by a freshman in his first game in program history … posted career-high 28 points in second career game at Georgia (Jan. 13) … dished out 12 or more assists three times, including a career-high 14 assists against Ole Miss (Feb. 6) … 14 assists were the most by an SEC player in a game during the season and second most in a game by a freshman … first Auburn player with a points-assists double-double since Jared Harper vs. Murray State (Dec. 22, 2018) … only player in the country with multiple games of 15 points, 12 assists and five rebounds during 2020-21 campaign … broke Auburn record for free throws in a game with 18 (18 of 21) against Missouri (Jan. 26) … named SEC Freshman of the Week on Jan. 11 … declared for the NBA Draft with the intention to sign with an agent on April 2 ... became the second one-and-done in program history (Isaac Okoro).

[Dejounte]

Sure thing. From his Wiki page - reputable links at the bottom of the bio.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaden_Springer

A sample of some of his accomplishments:



Prep honors:


2017 MaxPreps Freshman All-American second team.
2017 Charlotte Observer All-Mecklenburg Team.
2017 All-Southwestern 4A Conference.
2017 Runna Report Freshman of the Year.
2017 UABasketball Elite 24 Rising Freshman Game MVP.
2016 Lighthouse Christian School (Tenn.) Most Outstanding Player.


* 2018 Pangos All American Camp Top 30 Cream of The Crop Game - Named Top 5 of Camp by nbadraft.net
* 2020 McDonalds All American (Game cancelled due to Covid)
* 2021 SEC All-Freshman Team

A sample of Cameron Thomas' accomplishments:


As a freshman, Thomas began playing basketball for Oscar F. Smith High School (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_F._Smith_High_School) in Chesapeake, Virginia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesapeake,_Virginia).[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_Thomas#cite_note-brown-1) He did not play in his sophomore season because he and his mother "weren't on the same page" as the team's coaching staff.[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_Thomas#cite_note-teel-2) For his junior season, he transferred to Oak Hill Academy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_Hill_Academy_(Mouth_of_Wilson,_Virginia)) in Mouth of Wilson, Virginia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouth_of_Wilson,_Virginia), where he joined Cole Anthony (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cole_Anthony) and Kofi Cockburn (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kofi_Cockburn) in one of the most touted teams in the country.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_Thomas#cite_note-3) Thomas averaged a team-high 26.2 points, 3.8 rebounds and 3.4 assists per game, leading his team to a 31–5 record.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_Thomas#cite_note-hayes-4)[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_Thomas#cite_note-5) In July 2019, he was named Offensive Player in the Year in the Nike Elite Youth Basketball League (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike_Elite_Youth_Basketball_League) after averaging a league-best 29.5 points per game for Boo Williams.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_Thomas#cite_note-pope-6) As a senior at Oak Hill, Thomas averaged 31.5 points, six rebounds and 3.4 assists per game, leaving as the program's all-time leading scorer.[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_Thomas#cite_note-west-7) Thomas posted 30-plus points in nine games, including two 40-point performances.[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_Thomas#cite_note-commit-8) He led his team to the Tournament of Champions title, where he was named most valuable player (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_valuable_player).[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_Thomas#cite_note-9) Thomas was selected to play in the Jordan Brand Classic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Brand_Classic).

All-SEC First Team, 2021
All-SEC Freshman Team, 2021
SEC All-Tournament Team, 2021
USA Today SEC Newcomer of the Year, 2021
USA Today Second Team A-A, 2021
AP Honorable Mention A-A, 2021
CollegeInsider.com Kyle Macy Freshman All-America, 2021
All-Louisiana First Team, 2021
Louisiana Player of the Year, 2021
Louisiana Freshman of the Year, 2021

Consensus five-star athlete, ranked No. 23 in the ESPN 100, 23 in the 247sports.com rankings and 25 by Rivals.com … Ranked No. 5 in the position nationally by ESPN … Played three-years of high school, playing his freshman season at Oscar Smith HS in Chesapeake, Virginia … For his junior season, transferred to Oak Hill Academy where Thomas averaged a team-best 26.2 points, 3.8 rebounds and 3.4 assists … The team posted a 31-5 record … As a senior at Oak Hill for Coach Steve Smith, Thomas averaged 31.5 points, six rebounds and 3.4 assists per game, finishing his two years there as the program’s all-time leading scorer (2,219) … Led the 2019 NIKE EYBL circuit, averaging 29.5 points earning POY … In the Boo Williams spring and summer program averaged 28.9 points a game and was number one in the league in field goals and free throws made … Selected to the 2020 Jordan Brand Classic … Posted 3.0 GPA club in high school … Won a total of nine championships in high school and summer ball … Named Chesapeake, Virginia Male Athlete of the Year as a freshman (2017), Hampton Roads leading scorer as a freshman … Nike Peach Jam leading scorer and first team Peach Jam … Co-Player of the Year (2020) in the Allen Iverson Classic … MVP of three other Classics … Career high of 51 points and 15 rebounds.

[Trueblood]

IMHO this draft comes down to one simple question: which player available at 12 has the highest ceiling?

I see posters on here looking at the most NBA ready or the best 3-point shooter, but all that equals is another role player and we have enough of those.

Championships are won with all star caliber players and we need a home run plain and simple. Miss big or hit big, but we can't keep collecting role players (KJ being the possible exception)

[Dejounte]

Sure thing. From his Wiki page - reputable links at the bottom of the bio.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaden_Springer

A sample of some of his accomplishments:



Prep honors:


2017 MaxPreps Freshman All-American second team.
2017 Charlotte Observer All-Mecklenburg Team.
2017 All-Southwestern 4A Conference.
2017 Runna Report Freshman of the Year.
2017 UABasketball Elite 24 Rising Freshman Game MVP.
2016 Lighthouse Christian School (Tenn.) Most Outstanding Player.


* 2018 Pangos All American Camp Top 30 Cream of The Crop Game - Named Top 5 of Camp by nbadraft.net
* 2020 McDonalds All American (Game cancelled due to Covid)
* 2021 SEC All-Freshman Team

A sample of some of Scottie Barnes' accomplishments:


As a freshman, Barnes played basketball for Cardinal Newman High School (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_Newman_High_School_(West_Palm_Beach,_Flor ida)) in West Palm Beach, Florida (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Palm_Beach,_Florida). He earned All-Area second team and MaxPreps (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MaxPreps) Freshman All-American honors after leading Newman to a 19–8 record and the 5A regional semifinals.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottie_Barnes#cite_note-wagner-1) After the season, Barnes transferred to NSU University School (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSU_University_School) in Fort Lauderdale, Florida (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Lauderdale,_Florida), where he was teammates with Vernon Carey Jr. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernon_Carey_Jr.), the nation's highest-ranked junior.[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottie_Barnes#cite_note-dusenbury-2)As a sophomore, he helped his team to a 36–2 record and its first-ever Class 5A state title.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottie_Barnes#cite_note-furones-3) Barnes led University School to a City of Palms Classic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Palms_Classic) championship and was named tournament most valuable player (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_valuable_player) (MVP) after posting 15 points and eight rebounds in the final versus top-ranked East High School (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_High_School_(Memphis,_Tennessee)).[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottie_Barnes#cite_note-lammer-4) At GEICO Nationals (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_School_Showcase), he averaged 21.3 points and 9.7 rebounds per game as University School finished as runners-up.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottie_Barnes#cite_note-jordan-5) In his junior season, Barnes averaged 13.1 points, seven rebounds and 4.8 assists per game, leading his team to a 27–5 record and a second straight 5A state title.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottie_Barnes#cite_note-lichtenstein-6)
On August 5, 2019, he announced that he was moving to Montverde Academy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montverde_Academy) in Montverde, Florida (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montverde,_Florida), joining top recruits Cade Cunningham (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cade_Cunningham) and Day'Ron Sharpe, for his senior season.[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottie_Barnes#cite_note-7) Many analysts regarded his team as one of the greatest in high school basketball history.[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottie_Barnes#cite_note-8) Barnes averaged 11.6 points, 6.5 rebounds and 4.6 assists per game, helping Montverde to a 25–0 record with an average margin of victory of 39 points.[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottie_Barnes#cite_note-9)[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottie_Barnes#cite_note-mpaa-10) He received All-American first team honors from MaxPreps and Sports Illustrated (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_Illustrated).[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottie_Barnes#cite_note-mpaa-10)[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottie_Barnes#cite_note-visser-11) Barnes was selected to play in the McDonald's All-American Game (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_McDonald%27s_All-American_Boys_Game), Jordan Brand Classic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Brand_Classic) and Nike Hoop Summit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike_Hoop_Summit), but all three games were canceled due to the COVID-19 pandemic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic).[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottie_Barnes#cite_note-12)



2020-21 Preseason Naismith Award Player of the Year Watch List
2020-21 Preseason Wooden Award Player of the Year Watch List
2020-21 Preseason All-American Third Team (CBS Sports)
2020-21 Preseason All-ACC First Team (CBS Sports)
2020-21 Bob Cousy Award Watch List (National Point Guard of the Year)
2020-21 Preseason ACC Freshman of the Year (ACC Operation Basketball)
2020-21 Preseason All-ACC First Team (ACC Operation Basketball)
ACC Rookie of the Week (December 14, 2020; Indiana and Florida games)
ACC Rookie of the Week (February 15, 2021; Wake Forest game)
2020-21 Wooden Award Midseason Top 25 Watch List (January 6, 2021)
2020-21 Bob Cousy Award Top-10 (January 25, 2021)
2020-21 Lute Olson Award Midseason Watch List (January 25, 2021)
2021 All-ACC Third Team (ACC Coaches and Media)
2021 All-ACC Freshman Team (ACC Coaches and Media)
2021 ACC Freshman of the Year (ACC Coaches and Media)
2021 ACC Sixth Man of the Yaer (ACC Coaches and Media)
2021 All-ACC Tournament Second Team
2021 All-American Honorable Mention (Associated Press)

Graduated from Montverde Academy in 2020…averaged 11.6 points, 6.5 rebounds and 4.6 assists in helping Montverde to a 25-0 record…the Eagles earned an average margin of victory of 39 points per game…earned All-American First Team honors from both MaxPreps and Sports Illustrated…a finalist as the MaxPreps National Player of the Year…selected to play in the McDonald’s All-American game, the Jordan Brand Classic and the Nike Hoop Summit…led Montverde to victories over seven nationally ranked opponents during the season – No. 5 DeMatha (Hyattsville, Md.), No. 10 Long Island Lutheran (Brookville, N.Y.), No. 12 Scotlandville (Baton Rouge, La.), No. 19 IMG Academy (Bradenton, Fla.) (three times) and No. 20 Duncanville (Texas)…the Eagles captured championship titles at the City of Palms Classic, John Wall Holiday Invitational, Montverde Academy Invitational and the St. James Invitational…totaled 16 points, five rebounds and five assists in a 76-64 victory over IMG Academy as a senior.

Attended University School in Ft. Lauderdale, Fla., as a sophomore in 2018 and as a junior in 2019…led the Sharks to a 63-7 overall record, two Class 5A Championships and two appearances in the Geico National Championship game in his two seasons at the University School…played with Duke star Vernon Carey as a sophomore and a junior at the University School…averaged 14.5 points, 7.4 rebounds and 5.8 assists as he led University School to a 27-5 overall record, a second consecutive 5A State Championship and a second consecutive appearance in the Geico High School National Championship game where the Sharks fell to Montverde Academy in the championship game during his junior season…the University School closed the season ranked No. 2 nationally in the USA Today Super 25 final rankings…led the University School to the championship and was named the Most Valuable Player of the City of Palms tournament as a sophomore…scored 10 points and grabbed 10 rebounds in an 81-45 victory against Sanford School in the 2019 City of Palms…led the Sharks to a 36-2 record, the Florida Class 5A State Title and to the championship game of the Geico High School National Championship tournament in 2018…averaged 21.3 points and 9.7 rebounds in the three-game national championship tournament as University School fell to Montverde Academy in the championship game as a sophomore…the 5A State Championship victory was the first in school history…totaled 15 points and eight rebounds in the championship game of the City of Palms Classic against East High School from Memphis in 2017…totaled a triple-double of 13 points, 10 rebounds and 10 assists in the opening game of the 2018 City of Palms Classic against Vashon High School from Missouri.

[Tornado]

Question for those more in the know.

Does a guy like Filip Petrusev from Gonzaga/Europe make sense in the 2nd round? 6'-11" and 225, he looks like a stretch 4. 46% from 3 on about 3 attempts per game (not a very big sample size I know), looks like he has decent footwork around the basket, some nice spin moves in the post and is active on the boards. A bit older at 21, but seems like a stretch 4 option in the 2nd, a type of player the Spurs currently lack.

I may be all wet and was curious on others thoughts.

This pick would only be made if the Spurs go wing in the first obviously. Moody is my current favorite along with Duarte.

Last question, JT Thor. Im interested in him, but literally have no idea where he is gonna land in the draft. Anyone else like him and any idea where he goes? Seems like a guy that is gaining momentum as the draft gets closer.

Thanks in advance.

[alfahdlan]

Sad. CBS NBA Draft Big Board after the combine. https://www.cbssports.com/nba/draft/prospect-rankings/

[slick'81]

Sad. CBS NBA Draft Big Board after the combine. https://www.cbssports.com/nba/draft/prospect-rankings/


Yuck,as long as spurs dont reach on duarte im good

[The Truth #6]

This falls in line with my *could be* statement. He *could* increase his three point attempts. Whether one believes it or doesn't believe it, it's obvious most of Springer's fans think it's easily done and well... I don't think it's that realistic at all.

I don't know what good a guard who scores well at the rim would help this team in any way. That is far and away one of the team's lesser concerns. If you told me he had Dwyane Wade type athleticism and hang-time, I say go for it. But the guy is an undersized wing who isn't going to feast in the NBA just by being "strong"... he's nowhere near Baron Davis strong. He's not even explosive where he can blow by his man consistently.

Springer doesn't move the Spurs forward to the "modern era" most people have been clamoring for.

You seem convinced Springer has issues. Are you taking this as a slight against your preference of Duarte? I’m trying to follow your insistence here.

You don’t think one of the youngest players in the draft has the ability to make adjustments to his game in general? UT fans were upset that Barnes was pushing his preferred style of mid range play onto the team.

He’s a guard. How are you considering him a wing now?

A guard who scores well at the rim has nothing to offer the team? 3s and layups are the modern game. I don’t see how scoring well at the rim is not useful, particularly on an offensively challenged team.

I think we’ll have to disagree and move on to other discussions.

[Dejounte]

You seem convinced Springer has issues. Are you taking this as a slight against your preference of Duarte? I’m trying to follow your insistence here.

You don’t think one of the youngest players in the draft has the ability to make adjustments to his game in general? UT fans were upset that Barnes was pushing his preferred style of mid range play onto the team.

He’s a guard. How are you considering him a wing now?

A guard who scores well at the rim has nothing to offer the team? 3s and layups are the modern game. I don’t see how scoring well at the rim is not useful, particularly on an offensively challenged team.

I think we’ll have to disagree and move on to other discussions.

In literally the last Springer video a page ago, Phantom posted a video on Springer with the commentator calling him a small wing. Not my own words.

The team's issue was SPACING. How is this all of a sudden forgotten? Where do you think Poeltl will position himself when Springer is trying to make a play inside? On the perimeter? Players are already collapsing with our lack of 3 point shooters.

Being young means absolutely nothing. Players who don't change are more common than ones who do. There is way too much emphasis on the youth of a player.

Springer does have issues, and it's asinine to pretend he doesn't.

[mo7888]

I think the criticism of Springer is over blown a bit... I think he's a very solid prospect and I'm not worried one bit about his ability to become a good outside shooter. I do think #12 is too high though... if we pick up another pick in the 18-25 range he'd be one to look at.. just not at #12

[R. DeMurre]

You seem convinced Springer has issues. Are you taking this as a slight against your preference of Duarte? I’m trying to follow your insistence here.

You don’t think one of the youngest players in the draft has the ability to make adjustments to his game in general? UT fans were upset that Barnes was pushing his preferred style of mid range play onto the team.

He’s a guard. How are you considering him a wing now?

A guard who scores well at the rim has nothing to offer the team? 3s and layups are the modern game. I don’t see how scoring well at the rim is not useful, particularly on an offensively challenged team.

I think we’ll have to disagree and move on to other discussions.

I have confidence that by the time Springer is Chris Duarte's age-- in 2026-- he'll have it all figured out. (:lol) (just teasing, Dejounte!)

[KobesAchilles]

So you go from complaining about current Spurs players who hesitate to take 3s to yet another guy in the draft who hesitates with shooting 3s lmao
In my scenario we would be getting rid of Lonnie this year. What can I say though? I’ve always been a fan of high motor and athleticism. I was high on Lonnie until he showed how passive he is and scared of contact he is. Dude also has no finishing ability around the rim.

My first choice is a shooter like Duarte bc we need a freaking shooter. But Springer is so young and full of potential that I’m like hmmm… :lol

[Dejounte]

In my scenario we would be getting rid of Lonnie this year. What can I say though? I’ve always been a fan of high motor and athleticism. I was high on Lonnie until he showed how passive he is and scared of contact he is. Dude also has no finishing ability around the rim.

My first choice is a shooter like Duarte bc we need a freaking shooter. But Springer is so young and full of potential that I’m like hmmm… :lol

If Springer was truly athletic, I'd bump him up a tier.

He had FOUR dunks during the whole season.

For comparison:

Bouknight - 12 dunks
Duarte - 14 dunks
Keon - 15 dunks
Suggs - 9 dunks
Kispert - 9 dunks

For someone supposedly athletic and jumps high, he sure doesn't apply it in-game.

I get it-- Lonnie is frustrating, and Springer is likely tougher... the whole package just isn't enough to be amazed.

[The Truth #6]

In literally the last Springer video a page ago, Phantom posted a video on Springer with the commentator calling him a small wing. Not my own words.

The team's issue was SPACING. How is this all of a sudden forgotten? Where do you think Poeltl will position himself when Springer is trying to make a play inside? On the perimeter? Players are already collapsing with our lack of 3 point shooters.

Being young means absolutely nothing. Players who don't change are more common than ones who do. There is way too much emphasis on the youth of a player.

Springer does have issues, and it's asinine to pretend he doesn't.

You’re taking this to extremes it feels like to win an argument but I think it’s actually weakening your point. Now players shouldn’t drive to the rim because of how it will affect Yak? Am I interpreting you correctly? Maybe the problem in this scenario isn’t the player about to score at the rim but, you know, Yak?

Springer, Moody, Wagner or Duarte. I will be happy with any of those players unless someone drops. At 12 everyone has some flaw or issue.

[Dejounte]

You’re taking this to extremes it feels like to win an argument but I think it’s actually weakening your point. Now players shouldn’t drive to the rim because of how it will affect Yak? Am I interpreting you correctly? Maybe the problem in this scenario isn’t the player about to score at the rim but, you know, Yak?

Springer, Moody, Wagner or Duarte. I will be happy with any of those players unless someone drops. At 12 everyone has some flaw or issue.

I didn't say players shouldn't drive to the rim. That's creating a strawman out of nothing. Are you going to dismiss what I said about spacing? And that we have a lack of high volume 3 point shooters?

I don't know what's so "extreme" about bringing up the team's #1 issue from last season. If that's extreme to you, then I don't know what to tell you.

[PhantomDashCam]

Sincere question: what exactly has Springer accomplished that “most prospects would only dream of doing”? These sound like hyperbolic statements…


I don’t see anything on here that likely most other prospects also have, but I’ll see if I can pull up those achievements later.

Here’s one thing those players you listed don’t have: A HS National Championship.
http://geicohoops.com/2019-winner-and-results/


https://youtu.be/ZGMvNV57qh0

FWIW, The game before that they upset the heavily favoured Monteverde squad featuring Cade and Moody.


https://youtu.be/5soVgIuIvTQ

I’m a fan of hyperbole where I feel it’s warranted. :tu

[Dejounte]

Here’s one thing those players you listed don’t have: A HS National Championship.
http://geicohoops.com/2019-winner-and-results/


https://youtu.be/ZGMvNV57qh0

FWIW, The game before that they upset the heavily favoured Monteverde squad featuring Cade and Moody.


https://youtu.be/5soVgIuIvTQ

I’m a fan of hyperbole where I feel it’s warranted. :tu

There's so much context missing here that it's purposely misleading.

Jeremiah Earl Robinson was the MVP for the final game. Josh Green was also a big contributor. By your post, you've basically implied that Jaden led the team. Jaden was not a one-man show for any of these games. A single 26 point game doesn't change the overall talent his team had.

[alfahdlan]

If Springer was truly athletic, I'd bump him up a tier.

He had FOUR dunks during the whole season.

For comparison:

Bouknight - 12 dunks
Duarte - 14 dunks
Keon - 15 dunks
Suggs - 9 dunks
Kispert - 9 dunks

For someone supposedly athletic and jumps high, he sure doesn't apply it in-game.

I get it-- Lonnie is frustrating, and Springer is likely tougher... the whole package just isn't enough to be amazed.

if I may, Dejounte:

Bouknight - 12 in 15 games
Duarte - 14 in 26
Keon - 15 in 27
Suggs - 9 in 30
Kispert - 9 in 32
Springer - 4 in 25

Games played sourced from Tankathon.

[Dejounte]

if I may, Dejounte:

Bouknight - 12 in 15 games
Duarte - 14 in 26
Keon - 15 in 27
Suggs - 9 in 30
Kispert - 9 in 32
Springer - 4 in 25

Games played sourced from Tankathon.

Bouknight's in-game athleticism (what really matters) is insane.

[Ignazzz]

Bouknight's in-game athleticism (what really matters) is insane.

do You buy him in top 5 ( last mocks)?

[Mr. Body]

Question for those more in the know.

Does a guy like Filip Petrusev from Gonzaga/Europe make sense in the 2nd round? 6'-11" and 225, he looks like a stretch 4. 46% from 3 on about 3 attempts per game (not a very big sample size I know), looks like he has decent footwork around the basket, some nice spin moves in the post and is active on the boards. A bit older at 21, but seems like a stretch 4 option in the 2nd, a type of player the Spurs currently lack.

I may be all wet and was curious on others thoughts.

This pick would only be made if the Spurs go wing in the first obviously. Moody is my current favorite along with Duarte.

Last question, JT Thor. Im interested in him, but literally have no idea where he is gonna land in the draft. Anyone else like him and any idea where he goes? Seems like a guy that is gaining momentum as the draft gets closer.

Thanks in advance.

Yes, I think the Spurs look at a guy like Petrusev in the 2nd especially if they draft a wing/swingman, which I think they will. Petrusev, a guy with range and international/college experience, is exactly the type to look for.

JT Thor is super young, which is very attractive to many teams. He is a good shotblocker and suggests he could be a good shooter. Has iffy hands and is very weak, not a good rebounder, but teams will like the 3-and-rim protection thing.

I feel like this year teams will take a look at the Brook Lopez thing, also the Ayton thing, but it seems like a weak year for bigs -- most of them are really raw, which is understandable.

[KobesAchilles]

If Springer was truly athletic, I'd bump him up a tier.

He had FOUR dunks during the whole season.

For comparison:

Bouknight - 12 dunks
Duarte - 14 dunks
Keon - 15 dunks
Suggs - 9 dunks
Kispert - 9 dunks

For someone supposedly athletic and jumps high, he sure doesn't apply it in-game.

I get it-- Lonnie is frustrating, and Springer is likely tougher... the whole package just isn't enough to be amazed.
In my short 25 minute YouTube video of him :lol he is very good at sliding his feet and staying with his man. This is a form of being athletic. He doesn’t need to dunk everything. I don’t care that much if my guard lays the ball up instead of dunking it. When he jumps he’s at the rim every time he shoots a lay up. His hops are fine. He finishes into the teeth of defenders and takes contact well. And at the very least he doesn’t shy away from it. IMO he looks like what KJ is but in guard version offensively where he bodies people in the lane and goes up strong. He looks like a good defender, slides feet well (better than KJ), has a knack for getting the ball or atleast poking it loose, and had some nice blocks.

Downside is that we would have to teach him basketball. He ain’t scared to shoot which I love. He has air ball after air ball in his weakness video which I love. That’s a shooter mentality. It’s kinda like how Giannis will airball a free throw but still go up strong and not give a fuck if you foul him while Ben Simmons will wilt away and not dunk the ball bc he’s scared to shoot. You’re going to miss shots and some of them are going to be ugly but you can’t be afraid to shoot. Hell I think Duncan had a stat where he was like the most blocked person ever (?).

With Duarte I get shooting. He doesn’t look nearly the defender but I’m not that interested in him being one tbh. As long as he learns positions and rotations that’s good enough for me. There aren’t that many good SG in the league anyways and we have DJ and White to guard the other teams PGs. He covers a lot of weaknesses that the team has. For instance, we are looking at Mark from CHI but that dude has horrible perimeter defense and that’s a bigger deal for big men than it is guards, and we would be signing the equivalent of a big Bryn Forbes just for spacing. I rather draft Duarte, hope to hell we can teach Luka how to shoot, and spend our cap space somewhere else.

[Mr. Body]

do You buy him in top 5 ( last mocks)?

It's not too surprising. As I've said elsewhere, the top five or six picks aren't gimmes by any means. Not even Cunningham. I see a big chance of a Wiggins-Parker draft writ large. I especially don't believe in the two G-League players. There's a lot of holles in these guys' games.

If people think Bouknight is in the Ja Morant or Trae Young mold (without the shooting), then yeah. He's a player who can get anywhere on the court and get any shot he wants. We're seeing that as gold-plated platinum in today's NBA.

[The Truth #6]

I didn't say players shouldn't drive to the rim. That's creating a strawman out of nothing. Are you going to dismiss what I said about spacing? And that we have a lack of high volume 3 point shooters?

I don't know what's so "extreme" about bringing up the team's #1 issue from last season. If that's extreme to you, then I don't know what to tell you.


Yes, SPACING is important. We need more outside shooters. Totally agree. But I responded to your point about Yak that you initially brought up because I think Yak is part of the SPACING problem, much more than Springer would be. I’m actually leaning towards Dieng over Yak. I think what is perplexing is that you think a 43% 3 point shooter is a problem that can’t be solved.

[Dejounte]

In my short 25 minute YouTube video of him :lol he is very good at sliding his feet and staying with his man. This is a form of being athletic. He doesn’t need to dunk everything. I don’t care that much if my guard lays the ball up instead of dunking it. When he jumps he’s at the rim every time he shoots a lay up. His hops are fine. He finishes into the teeth of defenders and takes contact well. And at the very least he doesn’t shy away from it. IMO he looks like what KJ is but in guard version offensively where he bodies people in the lane and goes up strong. He looks like a good defender, slides feet well (better than KJ), has a knack for getting the ball or atleast poking it loose, and had some nice blocks.

Downside is that we would have to teach him basketball. He ain’t scared to shoot which I love. He has air ball after air ball in his weakness video which I love. That’s a shooter mentality. It’s kinda like how Giannis will airball a free throw but still go up strong and not give a fuck if you foul him while Ben Simmons will wilt away and not dunk the ball bc he’s scared to shoot. You’re going to miss shots and some of them are going to be ugly but you can’t be afraid to shoot. Hell I think Duncan had a stat where he was like the most blocked person ever (?).

With Duarte I get shooting. He doesn’t look nearly the defender but I’m not that interested in him being one tbh. As long as he learns positions and rotations that’s good enough for me. There aren’t that many good SG in the league anyways and we have DJ and White to guard the other teams PGs. He covers a lot of weaknesses that the team has. For instance, we are looking at Mark from CHI but that dude has horrible perimeter defense and that’s a bigger deal for big men than it is guards, and we would be signing the equivalent of a big Bryn Forbes just for spacing. I rather draft Duarte, hope to hell we can teach Luka how to shoot, and spend our cap space somewhere else.

Son, I am so proud of you. That first paragraph is what I would have written if I was responding to a guy who said something about dunks being the sole indicator of athleticism. In fact, I did write that about past prospects before, i.e. Obi Toppin probably. Hyperbolic statements are not needed. You didn’t focus on a single stat. You watched him play and didn’t care about his age and you’re telling it like it is. This shows you have potential to be one of the top scouts on this board. This shit is what I love to hear! When people are challenged, come up with answers like this. You really paid attention to detail and I respect that. I’ve got a tear in my eye…

RE: your second paragraph
Let me just tell you that Lonnie wasn’t afraid of shooting in college either. Regardless of if Pop is coach or not for the next few years, I believe the next coach will have SOME form of toughness on young players, especially if it comes internal. Say Pop is still the coach, you really think Springer is going to stay on the court if he has air ball after air ball? If you believe pro-Lonnie folks here (I personally dont), they say that Pop wrecked Lonnie’s confidence. Since Springer isnt accustomed to being a high volume shooter, he doesn’t have the “natural shooter’s confidence” yet. We could for sure see him turn into a Lonnie with Pop’s tough coaching (if you believe that has an effect).

All in all, with the points you made I still struggle to see Springer coming in and giving the Spurs more than a marginal improvement. Long term, he’ll probably take minutes from Vassell whereas if it was another prospect who has natural tendencies to shoot from outside, I think there would be more flexibility. Springer doesn’t really give any flexibility with the rotations. I know everyone wants to burn the whole roster to the ground, but I’m talking reality here. The next guy has to fit with at least A FEW players since we all know the Spurs have a few who they believe are long term main stays.

[Dejounte]

Yes, SPACING is important. We need more outside shooters. Totally agree. But I responded to your point about Yak that you initially brought up because I think Yak is part of the SPACING problem, much more than Springer would be. I’m actually leaning towards Dieng over Yak. I think what is perplexing is that you think a 43% 3 point shooter is a problem that can’t be solved.

I never said his 43% was the problem. I’ve pointed out consistently that it’s his shot profile that is the problem. I think pointing out a single stat without context is a problem. He shot that percentage on low volume. There is no guarantee that he will maintain that type of percentage on higher volume. That is called a risk. Springer favors close range and mid range baskets over 3-point shooting. That much is a fact. Getting Springer to feel comfortable shooting 3s at a higher rate is not as simple as many point it out be. We have seen it over and over with multiple players. That in itself is a 3-year project and there’s no guarantee there will be success. He could turn out to be a player who just loves to attack the basket more often than he shoots outside for his entire career…that is an actual possibility. There are guards in the NBA like that.

[look_at_g_shred]

Spurs worked out Tre Mann. Projected to go anywhere from 14-late

[offset formation]

Give me Sengun. He's a big that can shoot lights out. Isn’t that what we've all been clamoring for the last several years? He's a big, small ball dream player. He's a better shooting Batum. Who wouldn't take that today, now, as well speak?

I got Vassell correct last year so hopefully we can land this big guy this year too.

[look_at_g_shred]

Give me Sengun. He's a big that can shoot lights out. Isn’t that what we've all been clamoring for the last several years? He's a big, small ball dream player. He's a better shooting Batum. Who wouldn't take that today, now, as well speak?

I got Vassell correct last year so hopefully we can land this big guy this year too.
Don't forget the Jokic lite passing/playmaking. I think he's gone before our pick unfortunately.

[Dejounte]

Spurs worked out Tre Mann. Projected to go anywhere from 14-late

Not a huge fan because of the concerns on defense, but this is a lot more believable than Springer.

[offset formation]

Don't forget the Jokic lite passing/playmaking. I think he's gone before our pick unfortunately.

I just looked at mock draft boards after I posted this. I looked at like 5 or 6. The highest I saw on any of those that he went was 12 to us on the ringer. Aside from that it was 13th and 17th, etc. In fact, one didn't have him going in the first round at all.

So I think he'll be there although one mock did have him as the sleeper of the draft. And so it's entirely possible ppl are downplaying the kid in hopes he'll be there. I could see a team like OKC knowing the Spurs like him try to trade up to snag him quite honestly at 11.

He's really the perfect fit for us...a foreigner. And by that I just mean it's likely we can develop him and he'll fit into the culture really well. And maybe stick around long term even if he develops into a star. We need folks like that again.

[look_at_g_shred]

I just looked at mock draft boards after I posted this. I looked at like 5 or 6. The highest I saw on any of those that he went was 12 to us on the ringer. Aside from that it was 13th and 17th, etc. In fact, one didn't have him going in the first round at all.

So I think he'll be there although one mock did have him as the sleeper of the draft. And so it's entirely possible ppl are downplaying the kid in hopes he'll be there. I could see a team like OKC knowing the Spurs like him try to trade up to snag him quite honestly at 11.

He's really the perfect fit for us...a foreigner. And by that I just mean it's likely we can develop him and he'll fit into the culture really well. And maybe stick around long term even if he develops into a star. We need folks like that again.
I can easily see sac/magic (8th pick)/hornets drafting him.

[rankingtear]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2945473-updated-2021-nba-mock-draft-with-latest-prospect-buzz

Bleacher mock is up.

Kai Jones second top 10 mock both to SAC at 9.
Springer seems to replace Butler spot in the late teens.
Defensive centers Jackson and Garuba dropping to mid 20's. ESPN has them mid teens.
Sengun to OKC approaching consensus.
Trey Murphy III not far from our range.

after the top 6, 7-10 athletic upside guys , 11-17 big wings then 18-24 you got the potential engine guards then 25-30 the energy bigs and 6th man type guards.

[Mr. Body]

I'd be happy with Giddey. Interesting to take him before Wagner but I see the rationale (just playing with this scenario). Wagner overlaps with Samanac a lot. Giddey is a big swing, but a potentially transformative player. I don't mean a star, necessarily, but his size and passing could open things up considerably for a team where only White is a regular playmaker beyond the standard mechanical sets.

[rjv]

I'd be happy with Giddey. Interesting to take him before Wagner but I see the rationale (just playing with this scenario). Wagner overlaps with Samanac a lot. Giddey is a big swing, but a potentially transformative player. I don't mean a star, necessarily, but his size and passing could open things up considerably for a team where only White is a regular playmaker beyond the standard mechanical sets.

now that giddey has been left off the aussie national team for the olympics, i'm thinking his stock will either stay where it's at or drop although i'm not sure if he will now agree to start doing some workouts for teams.

[The Truth #6]

now that giddey has been left off the aussie national team for the olympics, i'm thinking his stock will either stay where it's at or drop although i'm not sure if he will now agree to start doing some workouts for teams.

He’s my wildcard pick. Could be unplayable but we really could use his passing.

[Kurik]

I'm on the Bouknight wagon, my top 5 assuming the top prospects don't fall:

1: Bouknight
2: Wagner
3: Moody
4: Sengun
5: Keon Johnson

If the Spurs trade down, Duarte is number 1 for sure.

[rjv]

He’s my wildcard pick. Could be unplayable but we really could use his passing.

yes, he'd be valuable in that regard and with his height, he could play the three or four.

[BatManu20]

Corey kispert. Please and thanks. Then sign duncan Robinson and lauri markannen. Constant shootouts in San Antonio.

With absolutely zero defense being played :lol

[R. DeMurre]

Poor Corey Kispert! All of the other potential lottery picks are talked about like they're cool brews from hip microbreweries, and Kispert seems to keep getting viewed as a boring can of Coors Light. I'm guessing spurstalk would be generally unhappy if he turned out to be the pick.

[Mr. Body]

Poor Corey Kispert! All of the other potential lottery picks are talked about like they're cool brews from hip microbreweries, and Kispert seems to keep getting viewed as a boring can of Coors Light. I'm guessing spurstalk would be generally unhappy if he turned out to be the pick.

He's a boring old shooty white dude from Gonzaga. I don't think any fan base would be thrilled to get him.

[rjv]

i mean, it wouldn't kill me if kispert is the pick but it'd be kind of like going to the ice cream parlor and finding out the only flavor left is vanilla.

[The Truth #6]

Poor Corey Kispert! All of the other potential lottery picks are talked about like they're cool brews from hip microbreweries, and Kispert seems to keep getting viewed as a boring can of Coors Light. I'm guessing spurstalk would be generally unhappy if he turned out to be the pick.

Like a sour beer? An acquired taste.

[rjv]

Like a sour beer? An acquired taste.

coors lite is not an acquired taste. it's just undrinkable.

[Mr. Body]

I just looked at mock draft boards after I posted this. I looked at like 5 or 6. The highest I saw on any of those that he went was 12 to us on the ringer. Aside from that it was 13th and 17th, etc. In fact, one didn't have him going in the first round at all.

So I think he'll be there although one mock did have him as the sleeper of the draft. And so it's entirely possible ppl are downplaying the kid in hopes he'll be there. I could see a team like OKC knowing the Spurs like him try to trade up to snag him quite honestly at 11.

He's really the perfect fit for us...a foreigner. And by that I just mean it's likely we can develop him and he'll fit into the culture really well. And maybe stick around long term even if he develops into a star. We need folks like that again.

Charlotte does need a center, but do we really think Jordan would draft a foreign finesse guy? I see them going for Kai Jones easily or Isaiah Jackson. I guess Sacto needs help down low, too? I don't trust their drafting or sense of teambuilding, although they nailed Haliburton last year. If they have defensive woes -- and they do -- I would expect Jones or Jackson there, too. Maybe even JT Thor.

Toronto is an outlier, if they trade Siakam for GSW's pick.

I think the Mock you saw with Sengun in the 2nd round is nbadraft.net. They seem particularly bad this year, not sure what's up.

[Mr. Body]

Well, let's talk Kispert up a little.

He's a really freaking good shooter. He shot 6.5 threes a game and hit 44% of them. His advanced stats on defense aren't actually bad at all. He's not an awful rebounder.

[Chinook]

I like Kispert just fine actually. He's a more dynamic shooter than any of the other youngish guys on the team. He'd fit. Would I like to see the team trade Murray, White or Johnson to get another pick and use that pick to acquire Kispert? Yes. But he'd at least seem to have a sustainable NBA game, and that's more than can be said for the other guys.

[Mr. Body]

I like Kispert just fine actually. He's a more dynamic shooter than any of the other youngish guys on the team. He'd fit. Would I like to see the team trade Murray, White or Johnson to get another pick and use that pick to acquire Kispert? Yes. But he'd at least seem to have a sustainable NBA game, and that's more than can be said for the other guys.

Yes. We've talked up Duarte and he's two years older. They're both closer to ready-made as far as rookies go. They both have multiple skills. Kispert is sort of maybe drafting a taller wing Reddick.

[John B]

I like Kispert just fine actually. He's a more dynamic shooter than any of the other youngish guys on the team. He'd fit. Would I like to see the team trade Murray, White or Johnson to get another pick and use that pick to acquire Kispert? Yes. But he'd at least seem to have a sustainable NBA game, and that's more than can be said for the other guys.

I can see it now, the Coyote wearing the headband :lol

[PhantomDashCam]

https://www.nba.com/magic/orlando-magic-nba-draft-workout-prospect-corey-kispert-gonzaga-20210706

The Magic worked out Kispert the other day.
Impressive interview.

Draft a project at #5 and then a rotation guy at worst at #8?

Kispert mentioned in this interview that he’s flying all around the U.S for workouts.
Spurs would have to be a part of that you would think.

I think timvp said we were eerily close to drafting Desmond Bane last year. Kispert’ s journey to the pros is somewhat similar.
ie. Pre draft process junior year, come back with improved body, show scouts deeper range…

[mo7888]

Poor Corey Kispert! All of the other potential lottery picks are talked about like they're cool brews from hip microbreweries, and Kispert seems to keep getting viewed as a boring can of Coors Light. I'm guessing spurstalk would be generally unhappy if he turned out to be the pick.

I'd be fine with Kispert. He's a more athletic Korver who can actually play some D.

[BatManu20]

1412484542624055301

[duncan2150]

I'd be fine with Kispert. He's a more athletic Korver who can actually play some D.


+1

I'm more Ok for Kispert than Springer for example, i think he'll cover a need tough he's not in my top choices.

[Mr. Body]

1412484542624055301

I don't see why you can't expect Giddey's form to improve, unless he's like that skinny dude a while back whose arm was broken when he was a kid and couldn't shoot correctly. What was his name? Ronnie Brewer?

Everthing about Giddey's form is fixable. Doesn't mean he'll become a great shooter, much less a volume one, but he's still very young and correctable.

[Mr. Body]

Actually diving into Kispert, he's more than I expected. He's a real competitor, goes hard. He's reduced in one-on-one capacity on defense and will get hurt by quick guards, but it's not for lack of effort. He has tons of it. He seems smart and works hard, not just a pure spot-up shooter.

Meanwhile when he's open and he has the ball, it's going up. That's fantastic. He slides around and finds open space extremely well and -- again -- if he's open or has some daylight, there's no hesitation, and it goes up fast. I think NOP would be foolish not to take him, but if he's available? I think he's in my small basket of guys I really like right now.

[ragas]

Give me Sengun. He's a big that can shoot lights out. Isn’t that what we've all been clamoring for the last several years? He's a big, small ball dream player. He's a better shooting Batum. Who wouldn't take that today, now, as well speak?

I got Vassell correct last year so hopefully we can land this big guy this year too.

He can‘t shoot 3Ps. 19% last season. He‘s a back to the basket center - not a good fit, if he plays like that.

[Mr. Body]

He can‘t shoot 3Ps. 19% last season. He‘s a back to the basket center - not a good fit, if he plays like that.

Sengun will become a good three point shooter. I have very little doubt about that. My question is how he'll do in pick and rolls.

[mo7888]

+1

I'm more Ok for Kispert than Springer for example, i think he'll cover a need tough he's not in my top choices.

I see it that way too... I'm not nearly as down on Springer as some here but I have Kispert ahead of him... he's 14 on my personal BB and Springer is at 17.

[ragas]

Sengun will become a good three point shooter. I have very little doubt about that. My question is how he'll do in pick and rolls.

you may be right, but at the moment he‘s not.