Grades: Spurs vs. Kings - Mar. 29, 2021

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-san-antonio-spurs-sacramento-kings-game-44/

Well, damn.

[John B]

The Spurs didn’t really play as bad, but the Kings shot 50% in the 3pt range. Could Spurs defended better? Maybe. Hield, Haliburton, Fox, and co just seemed to had open shots. And that seemed to have been Spurs achilles, protecting the 3. We’ve seen too often teams heating up on 3’s against the Spurs, and we say, the opponents just got hot, or is it Spurs’ bad defense of the 3? Could the Spurs play better closing in, switching, denying? I think so. Pop needs to put good 3pt defense. We have long athletic who can switch. But besides that, Halliburton making too many teardrops. Spurs need to do a better job slowing down the rookie. Likewise when the Spurs were leading, is when they were running. This team is built to run, motion offense, not iso after iso. That killed the momentum. Spurs were on the roll when Pop pulled and substituted Patty and Rudy. He should continue to milk. Likewise he pulled Poeltl and put Eubank after a very good play by Poeltl. I think those kill momentum. I know minutescare managed, but maybe a few more minutes stretch does not hurt. It just kills momentum otherwise. Hopefully we bounce back on the next meet. It’d be terrible to lose back to back at home to the Kings.

[BillMc]

Thanks OP

[tbdog]

The Spurs didn’t really play as bad, but the Kings shot 50% in the 3pt range. Could Spurs defended better? Maybe. Hield, Haliburton, Fox, and co just seemed to had open shots. And that seemed to have been Spurs achilles, protecting the 3. We’ve seen too often teams heating up on 3’s against the Spurs, and we say, the opponents just got hot, or is it Spurs’ bad defense of the 3? Could the Spurs play better closing in, switching, denying? I think so. Pop needs to put good 3pt defense. We have long athletic who can switch. But besides that, Halliburton making too many teardrops. Spurs need to do a better job slowing down the rookie. Likewise when the Spurs were leading, is when they were running. This team is built to run, motion offense, not iso after iso. That killed the momentum. Spurs were on the roll when Pop pulled and substituted Patty and Rudy. He should continue to milk. Likewise he pulled Poeltl and put Eubank after a very good play by Poeltl. I think those kill momentum. I know minutescare managed, but maybe a few more minutes stretch does not hurt. It just kills momentum otherwise. Hopefully we bounce back on the next meet. It’d be terrible to lose back to back at home to the Kings.

Spurs are 8th worst team in 3P% allowed. But are 13th best in 3PA allowed. They are also 18th in points in the paint allowed. The reason why the Spurs have a decent record and are in the playoff picture, is more to do with that they don't turn the ball over. Our offense is pretty poor too. Our points per possession is 24th in the league.

[GreekSpursfan]

We can't shoot, they can, we don't have top tier talent potential, they do, simple as. No need to overanalyze things.

[tbdog]

We can't shoot, they can, we don't have top tier talent potential, they do, simple as. No need to overanalyze things.

They don't have the talent potential. I disagree. They can and do shoot well. And Pop has not worked out how to defend that.

[siraulo23]

fk me

[RC_Drunkford]

this went as expected. They are now 1-4 on this home stand and will most likely end it 1-8 or 2-7. 11th seed is this teams ceiling. You can't start 4 none-shooters, you'll already have trouble starting 2. I'm sure Pop will realize this 20 games from now

[GreekSpursfan]

They don't have the talent potential. I disagree. They can and do shoot well. And Pop has not worked out how to defend that.

I take Fox over anyone on our team easily, from erattic contributor he has become a consistent threat, none of our players is consistent because they don't have the tools to be, not even Murray because his shooting is not good for a guard

[tbdog]

I take Fox over anyone on our team easily, from erattic contributor he has become a consistent threat, none of our players is consistent because they don't have the tools to be, not even Murray because his shooting is not good for a guard

Look at Fox's contract.

[duncan2150]

We can't shoot, they can, we don't have top tier talent potential, they do, simple as. No need to overanalyze things.

Not agree, they have more shooters and we don't yes, they have a FP with fox and we don't have one yes but other than that they are not better than us.

[EasyMoney]

It's irritating seeing white the only one in the starting lineup willing to launch it from 3. Vassell or walker would be better for starting

[KingKev]

Never enjoy getting thoroughly beaten but these outings are becoming bittersweet. We are getting close to the point PATFO will need to start taking accountability and choose a true direction this summer. Every loss like this makes it apparent “running it back” should not be an option.

[Dejounte]

Never enjoy getting thoroughly beaten but these outings are becoming bittersweet. We are getting close to the point PATFO will need to start taking accountability and choose a true direction this summer. Every loss like this makes it apparent “running it back” should not be an option.

The Spurs didn't run it back this year. If you're talking about a complete overhaul of the roster, sure. But the Spurs completely revamped their offense from last year and inserted three new players to get major minutes. Pop was quoted in the beginning of the year saying, "We weren't winning last year, so we had to change it up." I have no doubt if this becomes an unsuccessful season, that there will definitely be changes in store. At the very minimum, it will be inserting 2-3 "new" players into the rotation next year. I say "new" because they could be on the roster now, i.e. Vassell swallowing DeMar's minutes and/ or Luka swallowing Gay's. These are both major changes already, IMO. And not to mention if those two get a full off-season of work, who knows what they will add to their game?

Bottomline: last year's unsuccessful season led to the "loss" of Bryn, Beli, LMA, Lyles and "gain" of more minutes for Lonnie, Keldon, Poeltl, Vassell. Expect something similar for next year if these losses continue.

*I still expect some of these changes even if it was successful because it's natural progression for the young talent, and maybe they're just following a strict timeline right now.

By the way, if you're wanting an overhaul of the roster, you're following the wrong team. That's just not what the Spurs do. Not to you Kev, but to everybody.

[Dejounte]

The story of this game is that the Kings would bring the ball up, take five seconds off the shot clock and score.

When the Spurs brought the ball the other way, the ball handler (DJ, Mills, White, DeMar) would look around for five seconds, pass the ball, post, and so forth until six seconds is left on the clock and then they'll shoot it. I don't know if the team was tired, but the pace was extremely slow. Or maybe it was intended that way to take the Kings out of rhythm, but in order to do that you have to play defense too...which they didn't.

[KingKev]

The Spurs didn't run it back this year. If you're talking about a complete overhaul of the roster, sure. But the Spurs completely revamped their offense from last year and inserted three new players to get major minutes. Pop was quoted in the beginning of the year saying, "We weren't winning last year, so we had to change it up." I have no doubt if this becomes an unsuccessful season, that there will definitely be changes in store. At the very minimum, it will be inserting 2-3 "new" players into the rotation next year. I say "new" because they could be on the roster now, i.e. Vassell swallowing DeMar's minutes and/ or Luka swallowing Gay's. These are both major changes already, IMO. And not to mention if those two get a full off-season of work, who knows what they will add to their game?

Bottomline: last year's unsuccessful season led to the "loss" of Bryn, Beli, LMA, Lyles and "gain" of more minutes for Lonnie, Keldon, Poeltl, Vassell. Expect something similar for next year if these losses continue.

*I still expect some of these changes even if it was successful because it's natural progression for the young talent, and maybe they're just following a strict timeline right now.

By the way, if you're wanting an overhaul of the roster, you're following the wrong team. That's just not what the Spurs do. Not to you Kev, but to everybody.

For me shedding Bryn/Marco and playing guys who should have already been getting minutes isn’t something I’d bring to my bonus discussion at year end with my bosses. Great job PATFO you corrected clear mistakes you never should have made to begin with. The revamped offense was a needed change and I applaud it but still needs the right people in it I feel. I really like our group of guys, young and old and appreciate how DDR now fits in many capacities. From a personnel standpoint we need to make some changes however. DDR, Gay and Patty can’t all be brought back unless it comes at a collective discount and we have added a new leading player. There is not one player on this current roster, young or old who is positioned to take us to the next level of being a solid playoff team. So with all our flexibility; cap space, draft capital and solid young talent I think now is the time to to take some risk and shake things up. Not an overhaul, work with what we have but the core needs to change.

[Dejounte]

For me shedding Bryn/Marco and playing guys who should have already been getting minutes isn’t something I’d bring to my bonus discussion at year end with my bosses. Great job PATFO you corrected clear mistakes you never should have made to begin with. The revamped offense was a needed change and I applaud it but still needs the right people in it I feel. I really like our group of guys, young and old and appreciate how DDR now fits in many capacities. From a personnel standpoint we need to make some changes however. DDR, Gay and Patty can’t all be brought back unless it comes at a collective discount and we have added a new leading player. There is not one player on this current roster, young or old who is positioned to take us to the next level of being a solid playoff team. So with all our flexibility; cap space, draft capital and solid young talent I think now is the time to to take some risk and shake things up. Not an overhaul, work with what we have but the core needs to change.

I disagree, I feel Murray is right there. Scoring like what? 20 points in the first quarter? That's pretty special, IMO. It took him three years to get here, but he's looking like a true core piece.

Like I said: DDR, Gay, and Patty could all come back but with smaller roles and that would be a huge change. DDR, much less so but the other guys yeah.

Don't read what I'm not saying, it would be for sure nice to nab a core piece via trade or free agency but if you look at what's out there.... there's not much. Can't pull a rabbit out of a hat in free agency.

IMO, if we extend the same "patience" we had for Murray to the other young guys to take it to the next level, we could see another ascension.

If something comes available next year, then shake it up then. Don't shake it up for Lauri Markkanen. God, no.

[tbdog]

For me shedding Bryn/Marco and playing guys who should have already been getting minutes isn’t something I’d bring to my bonus discussion at year end with my bosses. Great job PATFO you corrected clear mistakes you never should have made to begin with. The revamped offense was a needed change and I applaud it but still needs the right people in it I feel. I really like our group of guys, young and old and appreciate how DDR now fits in many capacities. From a personnel standpoint we need to make some changes however. DDR, Gay and Patty can’t all be brought back unless it comes at a collective discount and we have added a new leading player. There is not one player on this current roster, young or old who is positioned to take us to the next level of being a solid playoff team. So with all our flexibility; cap space, draft capital and solid young talent I think now is the time to to take some risk and shake things up. Not an overhaul, work with what we have but the core needs to change.

If you are giving up on Gay/Mills and DDR, then you better have a plan on who you are going to make up all those points they give.

[mo7888]

I disagree, I feel Murray is right there. Scoring like what? 20 points in the first quarter? That's pretty special, IMO. It took him three years to get here, but he's looking like a true core piece.

Like I said: DDR, Gay, and Patty could all come back but with smaller roles and that would be a huge change. DDR, much less so but the other guys yeah.

Don't read what I'm not saying, it would be for sure nice to nab a core piece via trade or free agency but if you look at what's out there.... there's not much. Can't pull a rabbit out of a hat in free agency.

IMO, if we extend the same "patience" we had for Murray to the other young guys to take it to the next level, we could see another ascension.

If something comes available next year, then shake it up then. Don't shake it up for Lauri Markkanen. God, no.

I am much further down on Lauri than I was... I'm still not that impressed with Collins either (although he's well ahead of Lauri)... I still think we need to let the vets go. I know there's nobody worth paying big money to in FA but after watching Sacramento last night the two biggest differences I saw were 1) shooting and 2) toughness/aggression. Silva, Davis, Harkless etc all are just journeymen types but they all have a little 'Dawg' in their game.... I'd probably spend a little money on two or three of those types and try to fill the rest of my roster with shooters... I'd also do everything in my power to move up for Wagner if (as a staff) they feel like they can get him to a 38+% 3 point sniper.. if they can, with his playmaking ability, he's going to be special...

[Ice009]

I don't know when I said it, at least a week ago, but unfortunately the starting lineup has to change.

Poeltl
Luka
Demar
Lonnie or D White (if he's willing to keep shooting 3s)
Murray

Gotta have more shooters. You could also start Vassell instead of Luka or Lonnie/White, but bottom line, that starting lineup needs more shooters.

I'm sorry to say, but IMO Keldon can't start anymore if he's going to become a worse shooter than when he started the season. He's going to have to be an energy guy off the bench until he can learn to shoot.

[tbdog]

I disagree, I feel Murray is right there. Scoring like what? 20 points in the first quarter? That's pretty special, IMO. It took him three years to get here, but he's looking like a true core piece.

Like I said: DDR, Gay, and Patty could all come back but with smaller roles and that would be a huge change. DDR, much less so but the other guys yeah.

Don't read what I'm not saying, it would be for sure nice to nab a core piece via trade or free agency but if you look at what's out there.... there's not much. Can't pull a rabbit out of a hat in free agency.

IMO, if we extend the same "patience" we had for Murray to the other young guys to take it to the next level, we could see another ascension.

If something comes available next year, then shake it up then. Don't shake it up for Lauri Markkanen. God, no.

I agree. At this point in time I would actually use our MLE for something. If the Spurs agree to bring back DDR and Mills, which I think is that idea, and let Gay walk to a contender -we should be in a position to spend 18 to 25 mil , depending on Mills and DDR contract, plus a mle. That cap space will need to deal with Dieng, Weatherspoon, Diop and a rookie contract (which should replace Lyles).

If Spurs manage to get 10mil in cap space, I would target someone like McDermott and use part of the MLE on Portis.

Then you have a good, balance rotation. But most importantly, you have good contracts to make a splash on a bigger trade.

[KingKev]

I disagree, I feel Murray is right there. Scoring like what? 20 points in the first quarter? That's pretty special, IMO. It took him three years to get here, but he's looking like a true core piece.

Like I said: DDR, Gay, and Patty could all come back but with smaller roles and that would be a huge change. DDR, much less so but the other guys yeah.

Don't read what I'm not saying, it would be for sure nice to nab a core piece via trade or free agency but if you look at what's out there.... there's not much. Can't pull a rabbit out of a hat in free agency.

IMO, if we extend the same "patience" we had for Murray to the other young guys to take it to the next level, we could see another ascension.

If something comes available next year, then shake it up then. Don't shake it up for Lauri Markkanen. God, no.

I agree with all of this. DJ is my favourite Spur since 03’ Stephen Jackson. He is just built different. Keldon is right there also. Their success comes with absolute hard work coupled with our development program and to me they are the only borderline untouchables. Asking them to become the next Kawhi is a big ask though. So if I am PATFO this is my focus. A core of DDR, Keldon and DJ is only a missing piece away of something special and we have all the resources to atleast try and acquire that piece.

[KobesAchilles]

I mean DDR leaving the team next year will fix a lot of issues. It means everybody gets to play in their natural position. Murray at the 1. Lonnie at the 2. KJ at 3 instead of 4. Luka at the 4 with real size and mobility. And begrudgingly Poeltl at the 5. Of course Pop won't start Luka next year but he should. White needs to be a bench player. Along with Dieng and Vassell. Then just get filler players and see what happens.

And just say NO to Mills and Rudy Gay. Not even for the min those fucking chuckers.

[John B]

I don't know when I said it, at least a week ago, but unfortunately the starting lineup has to change.

Poeltl
Luka
Demar
Lonnie or D White (if he's willing to keep shooting 3s)
Murray

Gotta have more shooters. You could also start Vassell instead of Luka or Lonnie/White, but bottom line, that starting lineup needs more shooters.

I'm sorry to say, but IMO Keldon can't start anymore if he's going to become a worse shooter than when he started the season. He's going to have to be an energy guy off the bench until he can learn to shoot.

Agree. Luka needs to start over Keldon. I love Keldon’s energy but his reluctance and inconsistency in hurling the 3 is hurting the team. He’s perfect as a Manu role. Or Vassell on SF and Demar to PF. Either way Pop needs to insert a shooter.

[DPG21920]

The Spurs didn't run it back this year. If you're talking about a complete overhaul of the roster, sure. But the Spurs completely revamped their offense from last year and inserted three new players to get major minutes. Pop was quoted in the beginning of the year saying, "We weren't winning last year, so we had to change it up." I have no doubt if this becomes an unsuccessful season, that there will definitely be changes in store. At the very minimum, it will be inserting 2-3 "new" players into the rotation next year. I say "new" because they could be on the roster now, i.e. Vassell swallowing DeMar's minutes and/ or Luka swallowing Gay's. These are both major changes already, IMO. And not to mention if those two get a full off-season of work, who knows what they will add to their game?

Bottomline: last year's unsuccessful season led to the "loss" of Bryn, Beli, LMA, Lyles and "gain" of more minutes for Lonnie, Keldon, Poeltl, Vassell. Expect something similar for next year if these losses continue.

*I still expect some of these changes even if it was successful because it's natural progression for the young talent, and maybe they're just following a strict timeline right now.

By the way, if you're wanting an overhaul of the roster, you're following the wrong team. That's just not what the Spurs do. Not to you Kev, but to everybody.

That’s one way to look at it. The other way is that a team that missed the playoffs did absolutely nothing other than add a rookie to the roster they already possessed. That’s a fact. Changing rotations is fine and true but they stood pat.

Sometimes that’s ok. Like when you have Duncan. Most times with a team like SA, it’s not ok if your real goal is to be seriously competing for playoffs.

I’m happy with letting guys walk and changing rotations; I’m fine not making playoffs if that’s the case. But you can’t sit there and defend what is an obvious and straightforward take. They did nothing to change their roster heading into season

[duncan2150]

I am much further down on Lauri than I was... I'm still not that impressed with Collins either (although he's well ahead of Lauri)... I still think we need to let the vets go. I know there's nobody worth paying big money to in FA but after watching Sacramento last night the two biggest differences I saw were 1) shooting and 2) toughness/aggression. Silva, Davis, Harkless etc all are just journeymen types but they all have a little 'Dawg' in their game.... I'd probably spend a little money on two or three of those types and try to fill the rest of my roster with shooters... I'd also do everything in my power to move up for Wagner if (as a staff) they feel like they can get him to a 38+% 3 point sniper.. if they can, with his playmaking ability, he's going to be special...

You need vets, just don't play them too much, actually Patty is playing near to 30 minutes per games that's way too much.

Imo Collins is not worth a max but he will bring a lot to this team and for the harkless, silva .... i will not buy what i saw today, harkless is not a consistent player, not sur of what he would have bring to the spurs.

We agree about shooting and wagner.

[duncan2150]

Agree. Luka needs to start over Keldon. I love Keldon’s energy but his reluctance and inconsistency in hurling the 3 is hurting the team. He’s perfect as a Manu role. Or Vassell on SF and Demar to PF. Either way Pop needs to insert a shooter.

i'm more with the idea of Vassell strating, we need shooting and D he brings that, Samanic will not bring you both in a consistent way imo.

And we need to talk about Johnson, he looks lost actually. He needs to work a lot on his shot because when the paint is closed, he does nothing. Love his effort but he needs to change something.

[John B]

That’s one way to look at it. The other way is that a team that missed the playoffs did absolutely nothing other than add a rookie to the roster they already possessed. That’s a fact. Changing rotations is fine and true but they stood pat.

Sometimes that’s ok. Like when you have Duncan. Most times with a team like SA, it’s not ok if your real goal is to be seriously competing for playoffs.

I’m happy with letting guys walk and changing rotations; I’m fine not making playoffs if that’s the case. But you can’t sit there and defend what is an obvious and straightforward take. They did nothing to change their roster heading into season
Agree. And not just the roster, but the style of play. They change Forbes/Beli with Mills/Rudy who chuck 3’s and play poor defense. This team is built to run and gun. That was the Bubble. And I thought Pop was ready to roll with the young blood? Instead it’s over relying on Demar, Rudy and Patty. Come on Pop! That didn’t work last year, remember?

[duncan2150]

Agree. And not just the roster, but the style of play. They change Forbes/Beli with Mills/Rudy who chuck 3’s and play poor defense. This team is built to run and gun. That was the Bubble. And I thought Pop was ready to roll with the young blood? Instead it’s over relying on Demar, Rudy and Patty. Come on Pop! That didn’t work last year, remember?

Looks like he will never change something, when we lose 4 in a row i was thinking that he could change something in the lineup. It was obvious we need more shooters but no.

Now it's on some players to wake up but a lot are on pop and his staff.

[John B]

i'm more with the idea of Vassell strating, we need shooting and D he brings that, Samanic will not bring you both in a consistent way imo.

And we need to talk about Johnson, he looks lost actually. He needs to work a lot on his shot because when the paint is closed, he does nothing. Love his effort but he needs to change something.

Keldon’s offense now is rebound and taking it all the way. Which is not bad and this team should be doing more that instead of stopping after they hurriedly pushed it down only for Demar to stop. But again, Keldon needs motion offense and people who can hit outside to create open lanes for him. Instead we have iso after iso and no spacing. But loves the kids effort/motor and wants to reward him with the starting gig, but it’s hurting the spacing imo. Unless he’s playing with shooters, Keldon cannot start.

[duncan2150]

Keldon’s offense now is rebound and taking it all the way. Which is not bad and this team should be doing more that instead of stopping after they hurriedly pushed it down only for Demar to stop. But again, Keldon needs motion offense and people who can hit outside to create open lanes for him. Instead we have iso after iso and no spacing. But loves the kids effort/motor and wants to reward him with the starting gig, but it’s hurting the spacing imo. Unless he’s playing with shooters, Keldon cannot start.

I agree. Dieng would give something to this team with his outside touch, that's the only hope now because the other is to change the depth chart....

[rankingtear]

Keldon is hurting us a lot , but development is key this year so they have to figure it out to move forward with this group. Jakob is being incorporated on the offense more is a good progression. Defending the pick and roll with a vertical spacing big is another problem they need to address.

[PrimeMinister]

Keldon is a capable player but he needs the ball to be effective offensively

there’s 4 of those players in the starting line up - White is passable off ball with his shooting but his skills are maximized most as a ball handler.

Demar derozan is holding the whole show up folks. That’s where we’re at right now. There’s a bunch of young players who need the ball and the spurs are prioritizing an offense led by a dude on an expiring contract on the wrong side of 30 who has given up more points to the opposing team statistically than anyone else in the game of basketball.

I will probably have a stroke if they offer him a new deal at the end of the year.

[spurraider21]

vassell has to be much less timid on the floor before id consider him a viable option for extended minutes.

[tbdog]

I mean DDR leaving the team next year will fix a lot of issues. It means everybody gets to play in their natural position. Murray at the 1. Lonnie at the 2. KJ at 3 instead of 4. Luka at the 4 with real size and mobility. And begrudgingly Poeltl at the 5. Of course Pop won't start Luka next year but he should. White needs to be a bench player. Along with Dieng and Vassell. Then just get filler players and see what happens.

And just say NO to Mills and Rudy Gay. Not even for the min those fucking chuckers.

Even if the Spurs manage to replace DDR scoring, I'm not seeing 20 to 25 more points from the rest of the team. Also our three point shooting is pretty poor. To lose Gay and Mills would be a bigger loss than what you Invision.

[tbdog]

Keldon is a capable player but he needs the ball to be effective offensively

there’s 4 of those players in the starting line up - White is passable off ball with his shooting but his skills are maximized most as a ball handler.

Demar derozan is holding the whole show up folks. That’s where we’re at right now. There’s a bunch of young players who need the ball and the spurs are prioritizing an offense led by a dude on an expiring contract on the wrong side of 30 who has given up more points to the opposing team statistically than anyone else in the game of basketball.

I will probably have a stroke if they offer him a new deal at the end of the year.

I don't see it. Spurs haven't actually lit up defensively when he isn't playing.

[PrimeMinister]

I don't see it. Spurs haven't actually lit up defensively when he isn't playing.

It’s a combination of defensive woes and redundant offensive skillsets

Whether you see it or not- the numbers show derozan being out scored by more points than most everyone else in the game aside from fringe players on terrible teams.

There has to be some rationale for that. It can’t just be a coincidence year after year.

Look on the perimeter. Find a replay of last nights game or any of the games during the losing streak and just watch Demar defensively. Just watch him and no one else. See what happens.

Last night was an example of a total team failure - but several games on this skid have been punctuated by Demar having the worst +/- on the team.

[slick'81]

Keldon is a capable player but he needs the ball to be effective offensively

there’s 4 of those players in the starting line up - White is passable off ball with his shooting but his skills are maximized most as a ball handler.

Demar derozan is holding the whole show up folks. That’s where we’re at right now. There’s a bunch of young players who need the ball and the spurs are prioritizing an offense led by a dude on an expiring contract on the wrong side of 30 who has given up more points to the opposing team statistically than anyone else in the game of basketball.

I will probably have a stroke if they offer him a new deal at the end of the year.


Rip tony soprano

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/tom_orsborn/status/1376740310366191620?s=19

Alpha Murray clearly mad... So which player(s) has trouble defending the PnR?

IMO, it's a great thing he's speaking up like this. Push those mother fuckers out.

[PrimeMinister]

https://twitter.com/tom_orsborn/status/1376740310366191620?s=19

Alpha Murray clearly mad... So which player(s) has trouble defending the PnR?

IMO, it's a great thing he's speaking up like this. Push those mother fuckers out.

If they had more tenacious team defenders outside of Jakob and DJ they could play a more aggressive PnR coverage. But with Demar as one of your perimeter defenders you can’t count on him to rotate at the right time to cover the roll man if you blitz the ball handler or keep up with his man if they look to dish it out to a shooter.

KJ does a decent job helping in the paint when they employ a more trapping style defense, usually with Demar on the bench- but often times he’s slow to react and chase a shooter off the 3 point line.

that leaves either Jakob dropping back depending on his match up or a player on the perimeter cheating into the driving lane to cut off the penetration which opens up the 3 ball

Personnel problem and an effort problem.

[The Truth #6]

It's definitely odd to have at least a few very solid defensive players in the lineup and yet continually get broken down. Yeah, it's hard not to pin this on DDR. But White is nowhere near his peak version, either.

But as for this team. We've hitched our wagon to either DDR or DJ, if not both. I greatly prefer DJ. I love the leap he's made. The next step for him is to actually learn how to be a point guard and find people in their spots. When he's playing well he is scoring the ball, mostly one on one. That's not a sustainable offense longterm, either.

[KobesAchilles]

Even if the Spurs manage to replace DDR scoring, I'm not seeing 20 to 25 more points from the rest of the team. Also our three point shooting is pretty poor. To lose Gay and Mills would be a bigger loss than what you Invision.
No I envision it as a big loss offensively. I just think that they should be gone from the team. I'm tired of no defense, no passing, and chucking up bad shot after bad shot. This team needs to be rebuilt anyways and they aren't the right vets for us going forward imo.

[Leetonidas]

the team has a myriad of issues, the biggest imo being that the SL does not fit and has no identity. Murray is not a real PG. Neither is White, but he is a better PG than Murray. Both need the ball to be effective, and so does DeRozan, along with Keldon.

Spurs obviously are going all in on Murray as their future PG, which I am not fully sold on but it is what it is. Spurs just need to get rid of DeRozan or if he is going to start you cant start Murray and Johnson with him because White being the only real threat from deep is killing us.

White/Murray/Mills
DeRozan/Walker
Vassell/Johnson
Samanic/Gay
Poeltl/Dieng

We all know this rotation would work so much better because it gives DD three shooters to pass to on the perimeter and the two man game between Poeltl and White is much better than with Murray. But we also know it's never going to happen because Pop would prefer to keep pounding a square peg into a round hole

[John B]

Demar is a poor perimeter defender, and Keldon gets overpowered in the paint. Why doesn’t Pop put the best defender and let defense create offense? Luka is sitting there and can remedy both the spacing and help with rim protection, and hides Demar to guard the weakest link. And also allows Keldon more touches with the 2nd unit. I love Keldon, but he can be more effective with shooters around him, Patty, Vassell, Rudy and even Dieng, to open the lanes.

[spurraider21]

the team has a myriad of issues, the biggest imo being that the SL does not fit and has no identity. Murray is not a real PG. Neither is White, but he is a better PG than Murray. Both need the ball to be effective, and so does DeRozan, along with Keldon.

Spurs obviously are going all in on Murray as their future PG, which I am not fully sold on but it is what it is. Spurs just need to get rid of DeRozan or if he is going to start you cant start Murray and Johnson with him because White being the only real threat from deep is killing us.

White/Murray/Mills
DeRozan/Walker
Vassell/Johnson
Samanic/Gay
Poeltl/Dieng

We all know this rotation would work so much better because it gives DD three shooters to pass to on the perimeter and the two man game between Poeltl and White is much better than with Murray. But we also know it's never going to happen because Pop would prefer to keep pounding a square peg into a round hole
im not so sure about that this year

[pad300]

What I would like to see as an experiment (and possibly a starting lineup next year):

DJ
Lonnie
Vassel
Luka
Poetl

The weakest defender is Lonnie. 2.5 shooters (Lonnie, Vassel, ?Luka?). Big question: Is there enough shot creation between DJ, Lonnie and Luka?

White + Keldon would make a strong second unit, I think. If Keldon can figure out how to shoot, he could switch in for either Lonnie or Vassel.

[The Truth #6]

IV being out perhaps hurt us more than I first thought. Without his shooting and attempt at driving and kicking, we are worse. And shooting and passing are definitely major weaknesses. Good lord, I'm actually missing SloMo right now.

[The Truth #6]

What I would like to see as an experiment (and possibly a starting lineup next year):

DJ
Lonnie
Vassel
Luka
Poetl

The weakest defender is Lonnie. 2.5 shooters (Lonnie, Vassel, ?Luka?). Big question: Is there enough shot creation between DJ, Lonnie and Luka?

White + Keldon would make a strong second unit, I think. If Keldon can figure out how to shoot, he could switch in for either Lonnie or Vassel.

I'd love to see that lineup attempted. Pop is always a year or two behind in making changes.

White does need to move to the second unit while DDR is on the team.

[RC_Drunkford]

Demar is a poor perimeter defender, and Keldon gets overpowered in the paint. Why doesn’t Pop put the best defender and let defense create offense? Luka is sitting there and can remedy both the spacing and help with rim protection, and hides Demar to guard the weakest link. And also allows Keldon more touches with the 2nd unit. I love Keldon, but he can be more effective with shooters around him, Patty, Vassell, Rudy and even Dieng, to open the lanes.

because Luka needs this season to get over himself. We‘ve seen this movie before

[RC_Drunkford]

If you ask me I would start Lonnie for Keldon. Still not ideal, but should give us better spacing. I‘d also love for Luka to start at the 4 but we all know that won’t happen this season

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/massey_evan/status/1376922464861757446?s=19

S&T DeMar and Lonnie for Kat
Minnesota drafts a big

[Dejounte]

"I've really enjoyed playing with him, over the last, however many months that we've been in here," said Mills. "So now we got the opportunity to play with each other. And I think there's a connection there just with the type of our game, I think they compliment each other really well."
Said Mills: "So looking forward for that on-court relationship to grow over the next few games as well."

https://news4sanantonio.com/sports/ive-really-enjoyed-playing-with-him-patty-mills-gives-tre-jones-a-vote-of-confidence

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What the hell is Patty on about? Is Tre expected to get more minutes in the next few games? Pop finally going to experiment with rotations?

Murray/ Tre
White/ Mills
DeMar/ Vassell
Keldon/ Gay
Poeltl/ Dieng

[itzsoweezee]

So many front office mistakes, such a predictable outcome for the season. This is a team that operates in an alternative reality.

We have a team full of flawed role players. The only one I have any particular hope for is Vassell. Maybe in three years he’ll actually get some playing time?

Maybe this off-season the front office will finally do what they should have done three years ago and move forward with a rebuilding plan that every competent front office of a small market team follows: find stars in the draft via lottery picks, find competent role players through free agency/trades. I have no faith they will do anything of the sort

[TheChillFactor]

Devin Vassell

With Haliburton stealing the show, Vassell wasn’t able to capture much of the limelight. He had a handful of heady plays on defense but he was too willing to stand around in the corners on offense. When he had opportunities to take matters into his own hands, Vassell deferred.

Grade: C+.

I thought Vassell was a little better than that. He hit a couple corner threes, even visibly calling for the ball on one. He also put the ball on the floor a couple of times, scoring in the paint on a floater if I remember correctly.

[The Truth #6]

"I've really enjoyed playing with him, over the last, however many months that we've been in here," said Mills. "So now we got the opportunity to play with each other. And I think there's a connection there just with the type of our game, I think they compliment each other really well."
Said Mills: "So looking forward for that on-court relationship to grow over the next few games as well."

https://news4sanantonio.com/sports/ive-really-enjoyed-playing-with-him-patty-mills-gives-tre-jones-a-vote-of-confidence

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What the hell is Patty on about? Is Tre expected to get more minutes in the next few games? Pop finally going to experiment with rotations?

Murray/ Tre
White/ Mills
DeMar/ Vassell
Keldon/ Gay
Poeltl/ Dieng

That would be interesting. They definitely need the playmaking but I shudder to think of a lineup with Tre and Patty out there at the same time, though I'm sure Patty would love for someone to pass him the ball so he can keep chucking.

[The Truth #6]

So many front office mistakes, such a predictable outcome for the season. This is a team that operates in an alternative reality.

We have a team full of flawed role players. The only one I have any particular hope for is Vassell. Maybe in three years he’ll actually get some playing time?

Maybe this off-season the front office will finally do what they should have done three years ago and move forward with a rebuilding plan that every competent front office of a small market team follows: find stars in the draft via lottery picks, find competent role players through free agency/trades. I have no faith they will do anything of the sort

The problem is they think they already have a star and don't want to trade DDR as of yet.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

F- for Pop, where is Luka?

[spurs10]

Well the offensive boards in this losing streak, lack of offense, and all round weak defense is a recipe for the freefall we're seeing. A lot to work on. Thanks for the grades.

[Sugus]

Pop would prefer to keep pounding a square peg into a round hole

Sums up the game, and most of the season, pretty much tbh

[Sugus]

https://twitter.com/massey_evan/status/1376922464861757446?s=19

S&T DeMar and Lonnie for Kat
Minnesota drafts a big

I would be all over this, but fear Minny will ask for way too much (and with some reason, considering the calibre of player KAT is offensively). I'm guessing it would take at least DeMar, Lonnie, and two FRP to pique MIN's interest, and I'm not sure about that... Though it's one of those deals where, if the opportunity arises, you just have to do it. A starting lineup of Dejounte-Vassell-Keldon-Luka-Towns does sound interesting...

[Dejounte]

Lauri benched and his reaction to it:

https://twitter.com/CBSSportsNBA/status/1376982317995069443?s=19

[mo7888]

https://twitter.com/massey_evan/status/1376922464861757446?s=19

S&T DeMar and Lonnie for Kat
Minnesota drafts a big

I think Minnesota is making the internal decision to build around Edwards. They shouldn't have any interest in DDR. My guess is the starting point for discussion is Poeltl, White, and a few 1sts.

[TD 21]

I think Minnesota is making the internal decision to build around Edwards. They shouldn't have any interest in DDR. My guess is the starting point for discussion is Poeltl, White, and a few 1sts.

When (if?) Towns eventually asks out, which is on track to happen probably after next season (this season was lost with what happened to him personally, Russell's injury and Beasley's suspension, but next season Edwards and McDaniels will have had an off season to improve and they should have a starting four in place) late 20s role players won't be the centerpiece of the package and it's unlikely he'll be traded within' conference period.

[objective]

I think the best thing to do now would be to start Luka, and I've never been a big Luka booster at all.

BUT I think the team would get a pop with him starting because 1. he's not been shy about shooting 3s, and 2. he hasn't been scouted at all. Maybe after 10 or 15 games the league would have a handle on him and it would be back to the currently bad Spurs team, but for about 10 games or so I'm sure there'd be an upswing on the Spurs.

Same thing happened with Keldon as far as getting a big role/starting. In the bubble and the early part of this season, teams didn't know what he could do and weren't prepared. He was able to excel. He shot 63% in the bubble and is down to 47% now. Teams have figured out that he's just going to barrel towards the rim.

And of course, Luka or anyone else just might fit better. Johnson still isn't great at finding his way in the offense or moving without the ball to get opportunities, I feel like I see him being directed on the court all the time. And in a starting lineup where the ballhandlers like to to dribble around and survey everything, that's hard on Keldon. Luka I think would benefit from moving and getting to a spot to shoot or cutting, rather than waiting to get the ball so he could drive.

Luka isn't really a better shooter than Keldon, and I've long been dubious of his supposed 3-point shooting skills, but at least he puts the shots up (7.7 attempts /100 vs 4.4/100 for Keldon).

[Seventyniner]

I think Minnesota is making the internal decision to build around Edwards. They shouldn't have any interest in DDR. My guess is the starting point for discussion is Poeltl, White, and a few 1sts.

Yes, Poeltl would have to be part of any package for KAT. It's hard to get an All-NBA level talent without sending back a replacement starter, and KAT would eat most of the minutes at C anyway.

I don't buy the whole "loser mentality" or "soft" stuff with KAT either. AD had very little playoff success in New Orleans but is a legit superstar. Pau Gasol didn't win a single playoff game with Memphis and was Finals MVP level with the Lakers. If it takes Poeltl + White + two 1sts to land KAT I'm all for it.

Minnesota can doubtless get a better deal, though. I'd be willing to give up more, but I'm not sure how much more.

[mo7888]

Yes, Poeltl would have to be part of any package for KAT. It's hard to get an All-NBA level talent without sending back a replacement starter, and KAT would eat most of the minutes at C anyway.

I don't buy the whole "loser mentality" or "soft" stuff with KAT either. AD had very little playoff success in New Orleans but is a legit superstar. Pau Gasol didn't win a single playoff game with Memphis and was Finals MVP level with the Lakers. If it takes Poeltl + White + two 1sts to land KAT I'm all for it.

Minnesota can doubtless get a better deal, though. I'd be willing to give up more, but I'm not sure how much more.

I agree that the odds of us getting him are pretty low because there will be alot of other offers. I think he's a real talent and would fit great from an on court point of view though.

[rjv]

If you ask me I would start Lonnie for Keldon. Still not ideal, but should give us better spacing. I‘d also love for Luka to start at the 4 but we all know that won’t happen this season

i don't know what the hell it's gonna take to get luka out there. it kills me that he's just wasting away on the bench.

[tbdog]

If Towns in available, you keep DDR. That would be a clear better choice moving forward. But i don't think Spurs could match salary. White and Poeltl plus two 1st.

[RC_Drunkford]

https://twitter.com/massey_evan/status/1376922464861757446?s=19

S&T DeMar and Lonnie for Kat
Minnesota drafts a big

OKC will just offer them 4 first round picks and they will say yes. They got 17, so 4 ain't nothing. They could offer 10 if they wanted to

[Dejounte]

Dejounte/ Tre
White/ Mills/ Lonnie/ Cam
DeMar/ Vassell/ KBD
Keldon/ Gay/ Luka/ Lyles
Poeltl/ Dieng/ Eubanks

If Tre is truly transitioning to a bigger role for the rest of the season, that will be interesting as far as what changes are in store this off-season.

I realize that they may be trying this because Lonnie is out, but if this is a permanent change then..

Mills primarily as the SG means no space for Lonnie when he comes back. That is a very crowded backcourt. To me, this definitely means Mills is gone this off-season... Unless Lonnie is packaged for a trade. I think the former is more likely.

[Ice009]

I mean DDR leaving the team next year will fix a lot of issues. It means everybody gets to play in their natural position. Murray at the 1. Lonnie at the 2. KJ at 3 instead of 4. Luka at the 4 with real size and mobility. And begrudgingly Poeltl at the 5. Of course Pop won't start Luka next year but he should. White needs to be a bench player. Along with Dieng and Vassell. Then just get filler players and see what happens.

And just say NO to Mills and Rudy Gay. Not even for the min those fucking chuckers.

Yeah, I think White may have to go to the bench if he can't start being more effective in the starting lineup without the ball, might need to make him the 6th man.

Mills, I have no idea why the Spurs like him so much. EricB seems to imply that he is untouchable and I just can't get over that there isn't much chance they let him go. I just hope no other team offers a decent amount of money and the Spurs match it. Being a great guy shouldn't make you untouchable and entitled to a shitload of money. If so, a lot of other people around the world should be getting paid a lot more money and being kept on by organizations throughout the world rather than let go due to performance reasons. It shouldn't be based on performance, should it? I mean, it's not like Mills hasn't been average/shit 3 of the last 4 years, has he? It's not like he's playing his best ball in a contract year, is he? Fucking ridiculous if the Spurs get fooled by this again and overspend.


Agree. Luka needs to start over Keldon. I love Keldon’s energy but his reluctance and inconsistency in hurling the 3 is hurting the team. He’s perfect as a Manu role. Or Vassell on SF and Demar to PF. Either way Pop needs to insert a shooter.

I agree with this completely. That starting lineup needs at least one more shooter.

[RC_Drunkford]

We almost traded Patty for Josh Richardson in the offseason, so I wouldn’t say he’s untouchable. I still think they will bring him back though. He’s Pop’s pet

[Gagnrath]

That’s one way to look at it. The other way is that a team that missed the playoffs did absolutely nothing other than add a rookie to the roster they already possessed. That’s a fact. Changing rotations is fine and true but they stood pat.

Sometimes that’s ok. Like when you have Duncan. Most times with a team like SA, it’s not ok if your real goal is to be seriously competing for playoffs.

I’m happy with letting guys walk and changing rotations; I’m fine not making playoffs if that’s the case. But you can’t sit there and defend what is an obvious and straightforward take. They did nothing to change their roster heading into season

When you're right there with a very young team that arguably needed just a bit of seasoning not moving improving assets for declining ones makes some sense. So I get not making a bunch of moves but would have liked to pick up a late peak tough minded vet with the mid-level. Not a guy to be a star but a guy to go trenches with, a george hill, jaylen brown type preferably at the combo forward or power forward spot. But a long term vet who is starter quality but arguably loosing that due to age. Of course you also have to gauge the market. If a all-star is available in your budget go for it, but change just for change makes little little improvement it killed slot if Dirks prime years. A a young team growing and maturing together is a very very good thing

[Ice009]

We almost traded Patty for Josh Richardson in the offseason, so I wouldn’t say he’s untouchable. I still think they will bring him back though. He’s Pop’s pet

Patty was coming off of two really average/bad seasons, so I could see the FO entertaining trades during the off-season. Pop now seems to think he's been playing like 6th man of the year this season (I disagree). I think in Pop's mind, he's now untouchable.

How close was the Josh Richardson trade? I had no idea they nearly traded him. I would have loved it if they were able to move on from him before this season even started :(.

[DPG21920]

When you're right there with a very young team that arguably needed just a bit of seasoning not moving improving assets for declining ones makes some sense. So I get not making a bunch of moves but would have liked to pick up a late peak tough minded vet with the mid-level. Not a guy to be a star but a guy to go trenches with, a george hill, jaylen brown type preferably at the combo forward or power forward spot. But a long term vet who is starter quality but arguably loosing that due to age. Of course you also have to gauge the market. If a all-star is available in your budget go for it, but change just for change makes little little improvement it killed slot if Dirks prime years. A a young team growing and maturing together is a very very good thing

Sure - all that can be true and it also be true that you don’t need to spin the team standing pat. Literally drafting in your assigned spot and adding no one else is standing pat is the point. Saying otherwise is just odd.

[KobesAchilles]

I can’t get a live feed from where we are at but we better win this game if we have any shot at the playoffs