Spears on Spurs "culture" to veterans:

[TD 21]

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"And then I think it's also going to be fun. You know, you're like playing with all these guys who are your boys, you're the same era. I'm sure, being with all those young guys. And also, playing in the Spurs organization and this is with sincere respect because they've had a lot of success, but I think for veterans guys, it can wear on you. A lot of the Kumbaya stuff that they do, you know. So, maybe he (Aldridge) knows there's a lot more freedom and a lot more fun that's going to take place in Brooklyn."

Same stuff we've heard from Jackson, Scumbag, Green, Barnes, etc. in recent years. But hey, they won the Dieng sweepstakes, so all is well.:wakeup

[FkLA]

Doesn't matter, imo.

An organization with a bunch of "freedom" thats run by the players doesn't really work anywhere except big markets. The best approach in San Antonio is still the "culture" route, even if it has its flaws.

[The Truth #6]

I think both of these things can be true:

1) Pop is too controlling.
2) Aldridge, though seemingly a cool dude, is overly sensitive and ultimately hard to be around.

[Dejounte]

A small market team can't pretend to be a big market team no matter how hard it tries. You hope for a centerpiece humble enough to stay a la Giannis, Lilliard. You may try to cater all you want to these divas but they all still want the same thing = fame and glamour. You don't get that in San Antonio, you never will.

Btw, "Kumbaya stuff" :lmao :lmao

[Leetonidas]

Things are "free" in Brooklyn because it's a team of entitled divas and they have no real culture yet as the entire team was basically assembled in the last year

[rjv]

not really sure what point spears was trying to make here.

[objective]

I'm sure LMA would have no problems with Pop being controlling if Pop was force feeding him his touches and focusing the offense all around him.

[timvp]

That doesn't even make sense, tbh.

Usually, the complain is :cryPop is too mean for today's player:cry.

Too much Kumbaya stuff? So the culture is too nice? Too much togetherness?

I'm not the biggest believer in "culture" making a notable difference but this is a nonsensical argument.

The truth of the matter is players have left small markets for big markets since the dawn of the NBA. That Tim, Tony and Manu didn't want to leave was an aberration. For players who leave the Spurs, since management and ownership are so stable and there's been too much success, the only thing talking heads can point to as a reasonable excuse is something nebulous like culture incompatibility. It doesn't actually mean anything but it sounds like it does.

[TD 21]

I suspect what he's getting at is too much corny, non basketball related stuff.

It's not about "leaving small markets", it's about a certain kind of player (of which the majority of the league is comprised of) clearly doesn't want to play here and small, non glamour markets can't afford to cross off avenues to improve.



Doesn't matter, imo.

An organization with a bunch of "freedom" thats run by the players doesn't really work anywhere except big markets. The best approach in San Antonio is still the "culture" route, even if it has its flaws.

There is such thing as a middle ground.

[Mal]

Who wouldn't like to just run and chuck some threes

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Who wouldn't like to just run and chuck some threes

be a big shot in the big apple and have a real shot at a ring

makes sense to me. get em lma. thank you for your service

[playblair]

once again the easy solution is starting the spurs right in the face...........move to austin.........fook san antonio its a boring city

[elege]

Some men will sell the farm to get a pretty girl without considering she might be a bitch. Then they're left without the girl and the farm.

Other men who even though they might not be perfect, realize who they are and still try to do right by the people they've come into contact with

[spurs10]

That doesn't even make sense, tbh.

Usually, the complain is :cryPop is too mean for today's player:cry.

Too much Kumbaya stuff? So the culture is too nice? Too much togetherness?

I'm not the biggest believer in "culture" making a notable difference but this is a nonsensical argument.

The truth of the matter is players have left small markets for big markets since the dawn of the NBA. That Tim, Tony and Manu didn't want to leave was an aberration. For players who leave the Spurs, since management and ownership are so stable and there's been too much success, the only thing talking heads can point to as a reasonable excuse is something nebulous like culture incompatibility. It doesn't actually mean anything but it sounds like it does. Great post. You're right 'it makes no sense,' but that will never stop them from babbling.

[R. DeMurre]

I don't know about "Kumbaya," but I can understand the idea that Pop is too Old School, and that some older & younger players would rather be coached by a personality more like Steve Kerr, Steve Nash, or Mike Budenholzer, rather than a 70-something guy who doesn't shy away from screaming at players like a Drill Sergeant. Pop has had a lot of success and his politics are progressive, but the idea that he's allowed to have temper tantrums because he's the boss is something I can understand might not sit well with some folks. I've been a bar & restaurant manager, and I'd compare it to Gordon Ramsey: he has become very well known and successful, but a lot of people I know in the industry think he is the kind of old fashioned lead Chef who makes kitchens/workplaces toxic, and his approach of having no qualms about screaming at & insulting employees in front of an audience is pretty outdated. I don't put Pop in the same category at Bobby Knight, but I'll always remember what Coach Wooden said, when asked about Knight: "he's a very good coach, but I wouldn't want someone I love to play for him."

[gambit1990]

everyone here values the team culture but wants to act like it doesn't exist?

young players wanna do their thing / maybe they don't wanna dinners with the entire team, be given books to read, be on a short leash, etc.

you can say some of those things can be positive, and that can be true, but it's not for everyone. spurs are pretty family friendly / tame. also see: lack of urgency / "it's just basketball."

[gambit1990]

the whole "we want people who are over themselves" is basically the kumbaya comment in it of itself.

GMs in LA, NY, Miami, etc. aren't saying that. even the raps gave kawhi a chance despite the drama that went on.

[BackHome]

Yeah, the most important thing for this franchise is going to be picking Pops replacement - We need a proven coach someone who players want to play for and someone who is going to stay with us for the long haul.

[benefactor]

Oh look it's OP just whining for the sake of whining

You are the upstairs version of Nathan89

[DAF86]

Draft international players who are just happy to be here, tbh. US players are entitled shits.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

I mean Miami is basically Spurs East with all the culture and Kumbaya stuff and that’s where all the “experts” thought Aldridge was going.

[justinandimcool]

I think the Kumbaya comment makes sense. The Spurs have a reputation of being choirboys- over themselves, classyball, no one is above the other. I think Spears is implying that it’s more fun to be on a team where there are cliques (i.e. playing with your buddies). If you’re a veteran you’d rather spend more time with your best friends. That’s a fair argument in today’s NBA, tbh.

I also agree with timvp though, if you’re not in a glamour market you can’t really play that game. You need some kind of foundational “culture” as a selling point to signees, no matter how corny. Grit ‘n Grind, #HeatCulture, We the North, etc.

[duncan2k5]

I don't know about "Kumbaya," but I can understand the idea that Pop is too Old School, and that some older & younger players would rather be coached by a personality more like Steve Kerr, Steve Nash, or Mike Budenholzer, rather than a 70-something guy who doesn't shy away from screaming at players like a Drill Sergeant. Pop has had a lot of success and his politics are progressive, but the idea that he's allowed to have temper tantrums because he's the boss is something I can understand might not sit well with some folks. I've been a bar & restaurant manager, and I'd compare it to Gordon Ramsey: he has become very well known and successful, but a lot of people I know in the industry think he is the kind of old fashioned lead Chef who makes kitchens/workplaces toxic, and his approach of having no qualms about screaming at & insulting employees in front of an audience is pretty outdated. I don't put Pop in the same category at Bobby Knight, but I'll always remember what Coach Wooden said, when asked about Knight: "he's a very good coach, but I wouldn't want someone I love to play for him."
I don't think that's the problem players have with Pop...it's his arrogance and his short-sightedness when it comes to young players...you don't think Luka is pissed when he gets yelled at or benched, but old guys are allowed to make the same mistakes he has?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I don't think that's the problem players have with Pop...it's his arrogance and his short-sightedness when it comes to young players...you don't think Luka is pissed when he gets yelled at or benched, but old guys are allowed to make the same mistakes he has?

In any position of management of people the most important thing is to identify what makes a person react in a positive and effective way. People are different and thus you can't take the same approach with everyone. With Pop, I doubt it's because someone is a vet or a young player, it's more about their personalities. Pop has also been known for being harsher on people he believes can achieve more and have undeveloped talent (Murray), compared to people who are less talented and at their peak however low it might be (Forbes).

[bd_monster]

once again the easy solution is starting the spurs right in the face...........move to austin.........fook san antonio its a boring city

Austin is a cool city. But a cool city to us regular folks mostly...the same way Portland is....and Denver (which routinely have trouble recruiting free agents even when they are winning) . Even if the Spurs moved to Austin...its still a small town and not very glamourous. It would still lose out on the big time players that want to play in big time markets.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

In any position of management of people the most important thing is to identify what makes a person react in a positive and effective way. People are different and thus you can't take the same approach with everyone. With Pop, I doubt it's because someone is a vet or a young player, it's more about their personalities. Pop has also been known for being harsher on people he believes can achieve more and have undeveloped talent (Murray), compared to people who are less talented and at their peak however low it might be (Forbes).


That is true when it comes to how you manage your employees one on one. But you can't eliminate human nature. If player X is getting their ass chewed for every little mistake, having their playing time messed with on a whim, while player Y is allowed to make the same mistakes without repercussion, and has consistent playing time even while sucking out on the court, guys notice.

And this team has a caste system based on seniority and wine palate with the coach, don't act like that's not having an impact on the younger guys who just want to play ball.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

That is true when it comes to how you manage your employees one on one. But you can't eliminate human nature. If player X is getting their ass chewed for every little mistake, having their playing time messed with on a whim, while player Y is allowed to make the same mistakes without repercussion, and has consistent playing time even while sucking out on the court, guys notice.

And this team has a caste system based on seniority and wine palate with the coach, don't act like that's not having an impact on the younger guys who just want to play ball.

But the thing is we don't know how they are one on one or in team meetings, or when watching film. We only see a tiny glimpse of their interactions during a game and can't draw conclusions based solely on it. Although, in my opinion, proven player development speaks volumes about all these things being handled correctly.

[poopbox]

I think the Kumbaya comment makes sense. The Spurs have a reputation of being choirboys- over themselves, classyball, no one is above the other. I think Spears is implying that it’s more fun to be on a team where there are cliques (i.e. playing with your buddies). If you’re a veteran you’d rather spend more time with your best friends. That’s a fair argument in today’s NBA, tbh.

I also agree with timvp though, if you’re not in a glamour market you can’t really play that game. You need some kind of foundational “culture” as a selling point to signees, no matter how corny. Grit ‘n Grind, #HeatCulture, We the North, etc.


I don't know if I would call teammates who fucked each others wives as "over themselves" tbh :rollin

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I think it's reasonable to believe that the Spurs' organizational culture isn't a great fit for everyone, and that some veterans would prefer a different vibe that more closely matches the rest of the NBA. That's fine, you can't please everybody, but the idea that the Spurs' culture hasn't been the driving impetus for their success is pretty far off base. First, no one likes being in a toxic workplace, and there is nothing that will drive any professional to leave an organization faster than a shitty work/office culture. This is one of the many reasons why "culture eats strategy for breakfast" has become cliche in the corporate world. A good team culture helps put people in a position to succeed and thrive in the same way that a good office culture does, which is one of the reasons why the Spurs have been so damn good at developing and retaining elite NBA talent.

Here's a question I have for the anti-Pop brigade. Do you actually think that the Spurs could have possibly turned a bunch of 29th overall picks into a viable young core without Pop? Do you see the hit rate for most NBA franchises in the draft? It's atrocious. Boston has has like 1,000 first round picks over the past few years, and outside of their top 5 picks, most of those guys washed out of the league within a couple of years. The Spurs almost never fail to develop a draft pick into a good NBA player, and almost all of that comes down to coaching and culture. Guys like Danny Green don't just grow on trees around the rest of the league.

[GAustex]

Poop drafts good
He mismanages stars
He plays Forbes
He arguably holds back young players
He gives too much to Gasol and Patty
He hired DeMarre Carroll who could not even run or jump and got played like a tourist by Morris and gave away Bertrans
He lost #2 on his watch and then took in freeking DDR
His legend is Tim’s

[TD 21]

I think it's reasonable to believe that the Spurs' organizational culture isn't a great fit for everyone, and that some veterans would prefer a different vibe that more closely matches the rest of the NBA. That's fine, you can't please everybody, but the idea that the Spurs' culture hasn't been the driving impetus for their success is pretty far off base. First, no one likes being in a toxic workplace, and there is nothing that will drive any professional to leave an organization faster than a shitty work/office culture. This is one of the many reasons why "culture eats strategy for breakfast" has become cliche in the corporate world. A good team culture helps put people in a position to succeed and thrive in the same way that a good office culture does, which is one of the reasons why the Spurs have been so damn good at developing and retaining elite NBA talent.

Here's a question I have for the anti-Pop brigade. Do you actually think that the Spurs could have possibly turned a bunch of 29th overall picks into a viable young core without Pop? Do you see the hit rate for most NBA franchises in the draft? It's atrocious. Boston has has like 1,000 first round picks over the past few years, and outside of their top 5 picks, most of those guys washed out of the league within a couple of years. The Spurs almost never fail to develop a draft pick into a good NBA player, and almost all of that comes down to coaching and culture. Guys like Danny Green don't just grow on trees around the rest of the league.

Great player(s) are always the driving force for the kind of success they enjoyed and the second you start thinking it's anything else, you've lost the plot. This happened to them post '14, when they consumed too much of their own Kool-Aid.

They were great at retaining elite talent when they had an all international core, from a different generation, that immediately won a championship together, forged a chemistry and realized they could contend for years. Since that utopian existence, not no much.

Viable in what sense? It's not impossible Johnson becomes a star and everything snaps into place and flows from that, but the most likely outcome is that this is a starless, ill-fitting core. You don't even have a roadmap to success without that.

Pop, like all head coaches, has little to nothing to do with player development.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Great player(s) are always the driving force for the kind of success they enjoyed and the second you start thinking it's anything else, you've lost the plot. This happened to them post '14, when they consumed too much of their own Kool-Aid.

They were great at retaining elite talent when they had an all international core, from a different generation, that immediately won a championship together, forged a chemistry and realized they could contend for years. Since that utopian existence, not no much.

Viable in what sense? It's not impossible Johnson becomes a star and everything snaps into place and flows from that, but the most likely outcome is that this is a starless, ill-fitting core. You don't even have a roadmap to success without that.

Pop, like all head coaches, has little to nothing to do with player development.

So, serious question — if coaches don’t have much to do with player development, who/what does? I had always believed that it is a universally accepted truth in sports that good coaching is the most essential component to player development. Would be curious your take on what other factors explain the Spurs success?

And yes, great players are necessary for winning championships and sustaining success. But lots of great players come and go without ever doing anything close to what the Spurs have accomplished under Pop.

[Dverde]

What they mean is Spurs hold their players to strict schedules and expect them to follow rules. They don’t tolerate Shenanigans and tardiness like other teams. It’s not laid back, but some vet guys appreciate the professionalism in comparison to teams that bend over backwards for diva players.

[Ice009]

That is true when it comes to how you manage your employees one on one. But you can't eliminate human nature. If player X is getting their ass chewed for every little mistake, having their playing time messed with on a whim, while player Y is allowed to make the same mistakes without repercussion, and has consistent playing time even while sucking out on the court, guys notice.

And this team has a caste system based on seniority and wine palate with the coach, don't act like that's not having an impact on the younger guys who just want to play ball.

I mean, how many people here would accept that at their jobs? TD used to get chewed out sometimes, and that is why the players respected Pop back then and listened to him because one of the greatest players of all-time took it as constructive criticism, but now, when players nowhere near the level of Tim Duncan (even in their dreams) don't get chewed out, how would you react to it if you were a young player? It only worked back then because Tim was one of the greatest players of all-time and he allowed Pop to get on him (this is the key here, Tim allowed it. He allowed himself to be coached even though he was a superstar) and didn't fire back most of the time like 95% of Superstars would have if they were in his spot.

[GAustex]

Can you imagine a coach chewing on DDR or LMA?

[Rummpd]

Face it Pop is a great HOF coach but his time has surely passed, the FO truly stinks and they got lucky with Dieng but Pop won't play him enough to matter or let him shoot his 3s. Mediocrity reigns as this FO should have moved two former all-stars over a year ago and now had to buy out one.

[lmbebo]

Culture is a good thing if you are in Miami ... its a negative in a small market like SA ...

[TDMVPDPOY]

dunno what culture spurs has to offer, still living on 5 rings hasnt done anything for me lately since td retire...pop needs to step down, the vets like 50mills needs to go...

[rjv]

once again the easy solution is starting the spurs right in the face...........move to austin.........fook san antonio its a boring city

austin is a great city for pseudoliberal affluent whites; not sure it's all that appealing to younger Black athletes.

[TD 21]

So, serious question — if coaches don’t have much to do with player development, who/what does? I had always believed that it is a universally accepted truth in sports that good coaching is the most essential component to player development. Would be curious your take on what other factors explain the Spurs success?

And yes, great players are necessary for winning championships and sustaining success. But lots of great players come and go without ever doing anything close to what the Spurs have accomplished under Pop.

I said head coaches. Player development, trainers (skill work) and assistant coaches (film work) do. But the biggest reason for player development is the player itself.

I suspect a big reason for the Spurs success in this area is stability. As in, this regime isn't going anywhere (health willing) until they decide, so they can afford to take projects and bring them along slowly, which is atypical in the league.

The only great player(s) who seemingly aren't universally regarded as far and away the primary reason for their success, are here. It's not right and it's clearly played a role in plenty of players not wanting to play here.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I said head coaches. Player development, trainers (skill work) and assistant coaches (film work) do. But the biggest reason for player development is the player itself.

I suspect a big reason for the Spurs success in this area is stability. As in, this regime isn't going anywhere (health willing) until they decide, so they can afford to take projects and bring them along slowly, which is atypical in the league.

The only great player(s) who seemingly aren't universally regarded as far and away the primary reason for their success, are here. It's not right and it's clearly played a role in plenty of players not wanting to play here.

I don't share your opinion, but appreciate the thoughtful response. In my view, however, I look across professional sports leagues and see that some teams are consistently better at developing young talent than others, and that almost always is correlated to good coaching. Head coaches, btw, hire their assistants, set the tone for their development programs, and ultimately determine playing time and roles for players early in their careers. I wouldn't disagree that players are ultimately in charge of their own success, but knowing how to get the best out of people is a real management skill. Pop clearly has done this many times over the course of his career.

[TD 21]

I don't share your opinion, but appreciate the thoughtful response. In my view, however, I look across professional sports leagues and see that some teams are consistently better at developing young talent than others, and that almost always is correlated to good coaching. Head coaches, btw, hire their assistants, set the tone for their development programs, and ultimately determine playing time and roles for players early in their careers. I wouldn't disagree that players are ultimately in charge of their own success, but knowing how to get the best out of people is a real management skill. Pop clearly has done this many times over the course of his career.

Fair enough, but he's not putting in the long, grueling hours required to incrementally and successfully tweak/re-build a jump shot or hone all the secondary and tertiary skills.

The Spurs have had a lot of significantly higher ranked talent fall into their lap for various reasons over the years (Scola, Splitter, Blair, Murray, Walker IV, Johnson, etc.) and in many cases the reason was they could afford to be patient and either wait for them to come to the NBA or invest the necessary resources into developing these players and projects like Samanic.

It's not because they know something others don't. There are no secrets.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Aldridge was coattail ring chasing when he got here and now he’s doing the same thing in New Jersey. Nothing much else to say.

God bless Tim, Tony and Manu for all having the confidence to not need to go join a super team in order to have success.

That seven year drought between ‘07 and ‘14 would have broken up most teams.

[Dejounte]

This seems relevant to this topic:

https://twitter.com/APOOCH/status/1377700328678768647?s=19

[K...]

This seems relevant to this topic:

1377700328678768647

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

Austin is a cool city. But a cool city to us regular folks mostly...the same way Portland is....and Denver (which routinely have trouble recruiting free agents even when they are winning) . Even if the Spurs moved to Austin...its still a small town and not very glamourous. It would still lose out on the big time players that want to play in big time markets.


I currently live in Austin and I’ve lived all around the globe and this comment above is spot on. Austin is a nice city but it isn’t like NYC, Brooklyn, Miami, Los Angeles, etc...