Grades: Spurs vs. Hawks - Apr. 1, 2021

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-san-antonio-spurs-atlanta-hawks-game-46/

Not the greatest homestand ever, tbh.

[PhantomDashCam]

Thanks timvp.
Just one thing - this was game 7 of the 9 game home stand - 2-5 record so far.

[timvp]

Thanks timvp.
Just one thing - this was game 7 of the 9 game home stand - 2-5 record so far.

Good catch, thanks :tu

[Fireball]

where are the good old times in which pop rests old guys in b2bs ... Gay and Mills should not have played ... period

[spurs10]

This home stand is killing us! Well, gone are the days when homeport was an advantage. It certainly doesn't seem that way for the refs. Young should have fouled out twice, but was getting away with fouls at crucial points in the game, as well as shooting lights out.

[weeks]

This team needs fresh coaching. Even if it makes them worse statistically for a minute, just the change of wind.

[Thomas82]

This team needs fresh coaching. Even if it makes them worse statistically for a minute, just the change of wind.

IMO, the team needs a hard reset.

[GreekSpursfan]

People need to forget the Spurs they once knew, this team right now is the definition of a treadmill team, not much ball IQ and therefore talent, not tanking but not winning either. I still have the utmost respect for Pop the coach unlike others here but Pop the POBO has failed miserably.

[tbdog]

People need to forget the Spurs they once knew, this team right now is the definition of a treadmill team, not much ball IQ and therefore talent, not tanking but not winning either. I still have the utmost respect for Pop the coach unlike others here but Pop the POBO has failed miserably.

Yes. But there is a wait for that one star that will turn the team around. A disgruntled one? Or a luck of a draft. We have the contracts to make it happen, it's just waiting on the target.

[John B]

If Patty’s shots went in, Spurs won tonight. He was 1-8 with 3 pts in 32 minutes. Pop should’ve played Vassell more

[poopbox]

We harp on the players but we have a bottom of the barrel coaching staff. Our staff routinely gets outcoached by the other team. They manage substitutions better, run better offensive sets, better defensive sets, actual challenge questionable plays, pretty much ever conceivable thing a coaching staff can do to help a player win, the other team does is much better than we do. It's sad to see bottom tier coaching like luke walton completely run circles around pop.

Trae having 5 fouls and us not even attempting to put him in the pick and roll and force him to foul out or play matador defense is unforgiveable. Coaches do this in pee wee league but somehow Pop is to dumb to do it. I neve really bought into the whole "Tony Tim Manu made Pop" but boy oh boy as we get further and further from the big 3 era does it really seem like they did. It's not even about wins and losses at this point, our coaching strategies are so old and archaic that the players are significantly handicapped before the opening tip even happens.

Rudy and Patty are terrible. The occasional shot that they do make doesn't make up for the god awful defense they consistently play. How on earth is Vassel a much SMARTER defender than guys who have been in the league 10 times longer than he has ? Forget about patty being to small and rudy being to old and stiff, when you watch them they just don't even switch when they are supposed to or they constantly loose their man, or they shade their man to a side of the court that nobody is on. Rudy did this repeatedly tonight, and then someone has to come from the other side of the rim to try and contest a shot. Just mind numbingly stupid.

And even if they leave in free agency it will solve nothing, because Pop is just going to go get two more "veterans" and they will be the new rudy and patty, guys who suck but get minutes every night because they are "veterans".

Changing our roster is only going to do so much for this team. We are not reaching the next level until Pop retires from coaching. I'd like to think its because the old man has lost it but with the way he gets outcoached by everybody I am not sure he ever had it.

Hilariously enough, Brad Stevens was anointed "the next pop" and he gets severly outcoached every game and now he got a team full of lottery picks and is two games below 500:rollin . Maybe the media was right...

[tbdog]

Brad Stevens is great. Boston team has roster issues. Their stars are overrated.

[Rummpd]

Regression to the mean. Team played over the hill then got the bad covid deal got back on track and now this team with too many similar type wings, a center that can't shoot and a coach that is a HOF for sure, but won't play right line-ups and a FO that is a farce is playing about at its talent level. Here comes play in games most likely.

[sananspursfan21]

These guys had the energy early on but were just going through the motions. Then when they actually seemed motivated to try and win, they were gassed. This was definitely a mental game, and a very disappointing one at that. When Trae Young is kept in check, there’s no excuse for losing to this Hawks squad.

[RC_Drunkford]

The good: Pop didn’t lean as much on Mills as he usually does, which was particularly good in this game.

:lmao :lmao :lmao the guy played 32 minutes

how are you gonna give Pop a B- ?

To me the biggest reason why they didn't win was because they never attacked Trae Young on offense. 1 foul and he would've been out of the game. Just try to get a switch to get Rudy or DeMar on him or let Derrick or Dejounte drive when he guards them. None of that happened.

I really enjoyed listening to the Hawks broadcast with Dominique Wilkins, he was pointing out a lot of great stuff. Said Rudy and Patty are taking bad shots early in the shotclock. Said Dejounte made huge mistakes when it came to the play at the end of regulation and that pass fake by Gallo. He also pointed out that Poeltl not rotating to Young when he was driving was absolutely killing the team. All in all the Spurs never looked like they could win this, which is typical for a bad team.

[RC_Drunkford]

by the way this whole losing streak started when Pop gave away the Milwaukee game by "resting" Dejounte

[Dejounte]

:lmao :lmao :lmao the guy played 32 minutes

how are you gonna give Pop a B- ?

To me the biggest reason why they didn't win was because they never attacked Trae Young on offense. 1 foul and he would've been out of the game. Just try to get a switch to get Rudy or DeMar on him or let Derrick or Dejounte drive when he guards them. None of that happened.

I really enjoyed listening to the Hawks broadcast with Dominique Wilkins, he was pointing out a lot of great stuff. Said Rudy and Patty are taking bad shots early in the shotclock. Said Dejounte made huge mistakes when it came to the play at the end of regulation and that pass fake by Gallo. He also pointed out that Poeltl not rotating to Young when he was driving was absolutely killing the team. All in all the Spurs never looked like they could win this, which is typical for a bad team.

Did you switch to the Hawks feed because the Spurs feed has a delay in sound? Just wondering if anyone else is having the same issue...

[The Truth #6]

I wish Pop would coach/yell at DJ to be a better point guard. He always talked about trying to make Parker part scorer, part John Stockton, and pushed him for years to get there, and he did. Parker wouldn’t be an all-time great without Pop pushing him.

DJ definitely has Parker’s top of the paint jumper down now. But the passing, getting the ball to players in their spots just isn’t there. I think Kawhi then LMA then DDR broke/muted Pop, and so he just bites his tongue. He yells at some young players now and then, but it seems uneven and ineffective.

This is reason #354 why I think DDR has to go. We talk about him mentoring the young players. But we need players following the coach’s lead, not modeling DDR’s, too often, ineffective behaviors. And if Pop can’t get back to treating all the players the same (at least yelling at his stars), then there is a hard ceiling this team will not get above.

[Leetonidas]

Pop is a dumbass for never switching shit up and failing to recognize when a guy just doesn't have it. Ridiculous that no defense Mills played 32 mins and only hit 1 shot. Lol at not leaning on him too much when Pop had him on end game possessions on defense

[Dex]

I wish Pop would coach/yell at DJ to be a better point guard. He always talked about trying to make Parker part scorer, part John Stockton, and pushed him for years to get there, and he did. Parker wouldn’t be an all-time great without Pop pushing him.

DJ definitely has Parker’s top of the paint jumper down now. But the passing, getting the ball to players in their spots just isn’t there. I think Kawhi then LMA then DDR broke/muted Pop, and so he just bites his tongue. He yells at some young players now and then, but it seems uneven and ineffective.

This is reason #354 why I think DDR has to go. We talk about him mentoring the young players. But we need players following the coach’s lead, not modeling DDR’s, too often, ineffective behaviors. And if Pop can’t get back to treating all the players the same (at least yelling at his stars), then there is a hard ceiling this team will not get above.

This rings true, and is one of my gripes with Pop currently.

The Pop of old would rip into players whether they were the first guy on the bench or the 15th. Granted, it helped immensely to have players like Tim, Tony, and Manu who would accept that type of treatment and take it constructively. We've heard it said from former players time and time again....if Tim fuckin' Duncan is going to sit there and take the abuse, you have no reason to complain.

Over the years, Pop has started to pick and choose his approaches more delicately, and I do think that was a result of bringing in guys like Aldridge, Kawhi, and now DeRozan who are stars but want to be treated with kid gloves. Pop recently ripped into DeRozan on the sidelines for some late-game miscues, and DeMar started barking back and they had to be separated.

This leads to a divide where some players (like Lonnie or White) get lambasted by Pop on a regular basis for basic mistakes, and others like Mills or Gay make bonehead plays and Pop just pats them on the ass. It creates a pecking order that I believe is detrimental to the team.

I understand giving your vets a little more leash, but it seems very anti-Pop who used to be known for treating each player the same way and they either survived it or they didn't.

[Dex]

Pop is a dumbass for never switching shit up and failing to recognize when a guy just doesn't have it. Ridiculous that no defense Mills played 32 mins and only hit 1 shot. Lol at not leaning on him too much when Pop had him on end game possessions on defense

Also, Pop kept going to DeMar in the overtimes even though it was obvious his legs were tired. It was like the DeMar late-game special for 10 straight minutes...give him the ball and get out the way.

I understand DeMar had been playing well and actually got them to OT, but you have 4 other guys on the floor to utilize.

[The Truth #6]

This rings true, and is one of my gripes with Pop currently.

The Pop of old would rip into players whether they were the first guy on the bench or the 15th. Granted, it helped immensely to have players like Tim, Tony, and Manu who would accept that type of treatment and take it constructively. We've heard it said from former players time and time again....if Tim fuckin' Duncan is going to sit there and take the abuse, you have no reason to complain.

Over the years, Pop has started to pick and choose his approaches more delicately, and I do think that was a result of bringing in guys like Aldridge, Kawhi, and now DeRozan who are stars but want to be treated with kid gloves. Pop recently ripped into DeRozan on the sidelines for some late-game miscues, and DeMar started barking back and they had to be separated.

This leads to a divide where some players (like Lonnie or White) get lambasted by Pop on a regular basis for basic mistakes, and others like Mills or Gay make bonehead plays and Pop just pats them on the ass. It creates a pecking order that I believe is detrimental to the team.

I understand giving your vets a little more leash, but it seems very anti-Pop who used to be known for treating each player the same way and they either survived it or they didn't.

Exactly. If Pop is the coach, you want the best out of his style. Now it’s a half approach that doesn’t help the players improve. To be clear, I want him to play young players earlier to a point (like Luka should be playing every game now at least some minutes) but by not holding the vets accountable, it sends the wrong message.

I see two directions:

1) If Pop stays, then DDR can not stay in any conceivable scenario.

2) If Pop retires and Becky takes over, I still don’t want DDR on the team, but if he stays, her style seems to be that of a players’ coach, and I definitely think she’ll get more out this roster, especially the young players by not only playing them but putting them in a better situation to succeed.

[offset formation]

You had me until Pop's grade. It's fucking malpractice to continue using Luka like he is, which is not at all.

Until Pop learns to incorporate a potential asset into useful minutes on the court in the midst of a season when we need not only his minutes but his development, especially since the Developmental League is gone, Pop is gonna earn a big fat F- from me.

Absolutely pathetic rotations.

[PrimeMinister]

DeSpite DeLoss

40 points against a short handed hawks with a career night from Derrick white and demar’s spurs take another L

the tank commander keeps it rolling

[rjv]

i hope one one of the blunders you referenced made by murray wasn't the galinari three pointer in the 2nd overtime. at first, i was upset because it appeared that murray had bit on a pump fake but on the replay it was pointed out that dj was having to clog that passing lane to bogdanovich who was wide open. galinari smartly hinted at passing it off and when murray jumped up to prevent the pass galinari took the shot and nailed it. murray did what he was supposed to on that possession.

[Dex]

i hope one one of the blunders you referenced made by murray wasn't the galinari three pointer in the 2nd overtime. at first, i was upset because it appeared that murray had bit on a pump fake but on the replay it was pointed out that dj was having to clog that passing lane to bogdanovich who was wide open. galinari smartly hinted at passing it off and when murray jumped up to prevent the pass galinari took the shot and nailed it. murray did what he was supposed to on that possession.

Gonna have to challenge that, rjv.

When Trey makes his drive, Rudy steps up in the paint to stop him. Murray is already way out of position here, leaving two shooters open in the corner and wing:
https://i.imgur.com/IwmWGWv.jpg

As a result, he is late to close out, but instead of going to the ball, he tries to block the pass. Credit Galo for giving him a good pass-fake:
https://i.imgur.com/H5q1cKr.jpg

Murray is burnt there. He jumped himself out of position.

Mills and Gay actually try to recover but the damage is done. Either way, they were getting an open shot, but you should at least force the pass and make them shoot the lower percentage look.
https://i.imgur.com/qSpY1CU.jpg

The first rule of defense is that you stop the ball. You can't be so worried about the next pass that you give up a wide open shot. Especially when the shot you are giving up is the most effective shot in basketball.

It was a simple mistake made on instinct and isn't the sole reason the Spurs lost, but it's another case of Murray gambling instead of playing solid defense, and it cost him.

[look_at_g_shred]

i hope one one of the blunders you referenced made by murray wasn't the galinari three pointer in the 2nd overtime. at first, i was upset because it appeared that murray had bit on a pump fake but on the replay it was pointed out that dj was having to clog that passing lane to bogdanovich who was wide open. galinari smartly hinted at passing it off and when murray jumped up to prevent the pass galinari took the shot and nailed it. murray did what he was supposed to on that possession.
See Gregg, this is the result of having multiple shooters in the lineup. See how that works?

[rjv]

See Gregg, this is the result of having multiple shooters in the lineup. See how that works?

yeah, it helps to have shooters on a roster.

[MultiTroll]

i hope one one of the blunders you referenced made by murray wasn't the galinari three pointer in the 2nd overtime. at first, i was upset because it appeared that murray had bit on a pump fake but on the replay it was pointed out that dj was having to clog that passing lane to bogdanovich who was wide open. galinari smartly hinted at passing it off and when murray jumped up to prevent the pass galinari took the shot and nailed it. murray did what he was supposed to on that possession.
Was Patty guarding Bogd? :lmao

[Leetonidas]

Gonna have to challenge that, rjv.

When Trey makes his drive, Rudy steps up in the paint to stop him. Murray is already way out of position here, leaving two shooters open in the corner and wing:
https://i.imgur.com/IwmWGWv.jpg

As a result, he is late to close out, but instead of going to the ball, he tries to block the pass. Credit Galo for giving him a good pass-fake:
https://i.imgur.com/H5q1cKr.jpg

Murray is burnt there. He jumped himself out of position.

Mills and Gay actually try to recover but the damage is done. Either way, they were getting an open shot, but you should at least force the pass and make them shoot the lower percentage look.
https://i.imgur.com/qSpY1CU.jpg

The first rule of defense is that you stop the ball. You can't be so worried about the next pass that you give up a wide open shot. Especially when the shot you are giving up is the most effective shot in basketball.

It was a simple mistake made on instinct and isn't the sole reason the Spurs lost, but it's another case of Murray gambling instead of playing solid defense, and it cost him.

reviewing this makes me want to puke. Seriously, Rudy at C and Patty on the court on a late game critical defensive possession? Why TF is that not jakob and Vassell. Pop is so dumb sometimes

[rjv]

reviewing this makes me want to puke. Seriously, Rudy at C and Patty on the court on a late game critical defensive possession? Why TF is that not jakob and Vassell. Pop is so dumb sometimes

the only reason i could come up with for patty being out there was for the scenario in which the spurs would get the rebound on a miss and not call a timeout. but then again, pop had patty in on the last possession of regulation too. and everyone knew the hawks were going to take it down to the last second.

[Sugus]

reviewing this makes me want to puke. Seriously, Rudy at C and Patty on the court on a late game critical defensive possession? Why TF is that not jakob and Vassell. Pop is so dumb sometimes

It makes no sense. I actually thought Vassell had gotten injured at some point after OT began, because he wasn't seeing the court whatsoever since like 10 minutes ago.... Nope, turns out it's just another chapter of Pop's Vet Ride AND Die. SMH. And yet another game of not playing Luka at all after he "earned his minutes". On a back-to-back... Against a team missing like 5 rotational pieces.... And you overplay the same vets that are tired and losing you games when they aren't even tired. Just an F- job by Pop last night.

[RC_Drunkford]

i hope one one of the blunders you referenced made by murray wasn't the galinari three pointer in the 2nd overtime. at first, i was upset because it appeared that murray had bit on a pump fake but on the replay it was pointed out that dj was having to clog that passing lane to bogdanovich who was wide open. galinari smartly hinted at passing it off and when murray jumped up to prevent the pass galinari took the shot and nailed it. murray did what he was supposed to on that possession.

if you have to choose between deflecting a pass or closing out the shooter, you have to close out the shooter period. And on top of that you never want to give up the corner 3 which is the most efficient shot in basketball

[Spurs Homer]

You guys are NOT seeing the BIG picture -

Luka - is WELL RESTED!

This will pay dividends when Luka goes to another team and has tons of energy!

[duncan2150]

Playing Patty 30 minutes is killing us, 3 pts 2 rebounds 3 assists on 30 minutes, that's a shame he played that much.

Rudy was playing too much but he had a better night, both have to play lesser.

[TD 21]

Mills and Gay are two of the few players who provide credible or better 3-point shooting and uncoincidentally positive impact.

The real issue is being as reliant on them as they are, not playing them as much as they do.

[duncan2150]

Mills and Gay are two of the few players who provide credible or better 3-point shooting and uncoincidentally positive impact.

The real issue is being as reliant on them as they are, not playing them as much as they do.

you're right on most part but you don't need 30 minutes of mills, you can insert Vassell who is a good 3pts shooter so the playing time is a problem for me.

[KobesAchilles]

Yeah Luka’s entire career was killed the second Pop says he deserved minutes. This is the dude that benched Lonnie after he had 29 points against the Rockets. The dude should’ve just traded away all the vets

[TD 21]

you're right on most part but you don't need 30 minutes of mills, you can insert Vassell who is a good 3pts shooter so the playing time is a problem for me.

On a normal team, you could. On this one, that's a downgrade they can't afford on a sustainable basis in closing lineups.

Mills provides significantly more volume, versatility (off screens, pull up, quickness of release) and almost as important, respect from opposing defenses.

[BackHome]

You guys keep seeing the BIG picture -

Luka - is WELL RESTED!

This will pay dividends when Luka goes to another team and has tons of energy!

If I am Luka agent I am going public and demanding a trade Pop for what ever reason is just being a Dick no way should this kid not be getting some burn

[John B]

I don’t know what changes Pop was talking about at the beginning of the season. Instead of Forbes/Belli, it’s Mills/Rudy. It’s still over reliance on offense vs defense.

[John B]

And do we have good defensive guards? It’s like all the guards beat us. Vassell could be that instead of Patty getting abused every night.