Play-in playoff game?

[UNT Eagles 2016]

So I assume they're going to do the same thing as last year? like the MLB style. 7 hosts 8, 9 hosts 10, the loser of 7-8 hosts the winner of 9-10?

So the Spurs are far enough embedded in the 7-10 mix they can't fall out or get ahead of that, right?

[MultiTroll]

:pop: fallout still very possible.
However getting down far enough to get a good lottery pick probably won't happen.

[cd98]

Problem is too many teams have worse record and can out tank Spurs. Best hope is to get super lucky in the lottery. But very small chance of that happening.

[RC_Drunkford]

This team can absolutely get the 11th seed

[exstatic]

So I assume they're going to do the same thing as last year? like the MLB style. 7 hosts 8, 9 hosts 10, the loser of 7-8 hosts the winner of 9-10?

So the Spurs are far enough embedded in the 7-10 mix they can't fall out or get ahead of that, right?

Nope. 7 plays 10 and 8 plays 9. 7 and 8 need only win once. 9 and 10 need to beat their opponent twice to advance to the playoffs. Before anyone asks, it’s not 2 out of 3. For 7 and 8, it’s 1 out of ?. For 9 and 10, it’s 2 out of 2.

[Dejounte]

Nope. 7 plays 10 and 8 plays 9. 7 and 8 need only win once. 9 and 10 need to beat their opponent twice to advance to the playoffs. Before anyone asks, it’s not 2 out of 3. For 7 and 8, it’s 1 out of ?. For 9 and 10, it’s 2 out of 2.

Completely wrong. See below:

https://cdn.nba.com/manage/2021/01/Play-in-Tournament-Explainer-16x9-v2-4-784x441.png

[exstatic]

Completely wrong. See below:

https://cdn.nba.com/manage/2021/01/Play-in-Tournament-Explainer-16x9-v2-4-784x441.png

Well, not completely. 7 or 8 need only win once.

[Dejounte]

Well, not completely. 7 or 8 need only win once.

And 7 doesn't play 10 unless 7 loses to 8 first and so forth ;)

[KobesAchilles]

So a couple of things have to happen for us not to be in the play-in game. 1st the Warriors have to stop tanking. You can't lose by 52 to Toronto, lose to the Wizards, and then barely beat the Rockets and tell me they aren't tanking.

Secondly, Stan Van Gundy will actually learn how to coach again and realize maybe I should actually continue giving my unstoppable player the ball more often and play him as a point forward. Both are doubtful so then it comes down to, can we beat them one time to have a shot at the playoffs?

[TDomination]

Completely wrong. See below:

https://cdn.nba.com/manage/2021/01/Play-in-Tournament-Explainer-16x9-v2-4-784x441.png

idk i think its kind of lame that the 7th seed can miss the playoffs b/c of 2 games. usually the 8th 9th seed will have similar records so i do get that but there have been plenty of times where 7th seed is about 5 games up on 8th. And if that were the case this year, to lose your playoffs that you worked all year to earn makes the regular season even more irrelevant.

If you are to include the 7th seed in this mini playoff, it would make more sense to give complete advantage to them by having them play the 10th seed instead of the 8th seed in that first game. Because technically the 7th and 8th seed are playing tougher opponents in that first game then the 9th and 10th seed are.

But whatever, they will all be 1st round fodder anyways.

[exstatic]

idk i think its kind of lame that the 7th seed can miss the playoffs b/c of 2 games. usually the 8th 9th seed will have similar records so i do get that but there have been plenty of times where 7th seed is about 5 games up on 8th. And if that were the case this year, to lose your playoffs that you worked all year to earn makes the regular season even more irrelevant.

If you are to include the 7th seed in this mini playoff, it would make more sense to give complete advantage to them by having them play the 10th seed instead of the 8th seed in that first game. Because technically the 7th and 8th seed are playing tougher opponents in that first game then the 9th and 10th seed are.

But whatever, they will all be 1st round fodder anyways.

7th seed only needs to win one game in two possible opportunities. If you can’t do that, perhaps you don’t belong in the playoffs.

[Dejounte]

7th seed only needs to win one game in two possible opportunities. If you can’t do that, perhaps you don’t belong in the playoffs.

The 7th seed has equal opportunities with the 8th. That is what TDomination is saying is unfair. The 8th seed could beat the 7th and they're already in and vice versa. Whoever loses between 7th and 8th has to face the winner of the two between 9th and 10th. TDomination is saying it shouldn't be that easy for 8th to get in when they're typically the seed that's closer to being out of the playoffs.

[SpursDynasty85]

The 7th seed has equal opportunities with the 8th. That is what TDomination (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=15392) is saying is unfair. The 8th seed could beat the 7th and they're already in and vice versa. Whoever loses between 7th and 8th has to face the winner of the two between 9th and 10th. TDomination is saying it shouldn't be that easy for 8th to get in when they're typically the seed that's closer to being out of the playoffs.


7th would get home court advantage but yea I get your point. On another perspective, leagues like MLB and NFL are a lot harder to make the playoffs so making the top 6 in each conference instead of 8 making it to a 7-game series playoffs makes the regular season a bit more competitive I think. Simultaneously, brings in an interesting dynamic in the middle of the pack teams for a shorter play-in tournament. It's pretty creative. Switches things up a bit.

[Seventyniner]

The 7th seed has equal opportunities with the 8th. That is what TDomination (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=15392) is saying is unfair. The 8th seed could beat the 7th and they're already in and vice versa. Whoever loses between 7th and 8th has to face the winner of the two between 9th and 10th. TDomination is saying it shouldn't be that easy for 8th to get in when they're typically the seed that's closer to being out of the playoffs.

I agree. What I wanted to see instead was a three-game round robin with the 7-10 teams each playing each other once. Higher seed gets home court for every game, best two records get the 7/8 seeds, regular season seed breaks ties (as opposed to head-to-head record in the round robin). Give every possible advantage to #7 and 8, who in normal times would get their playoff spots outright.

That means if 7 or 8 goes 2-1 they are guaranteed a spot. And start each pair of games at the same time to avoid the problem of one team in a game not having anything to play for.

[cd98]

It's frustrating how these chronic lottery teams get to keep tanking and stay at the bottom forever. The following teams should be barred for two years from having a lottery pick: Sacramento Kings, Minnesota Timberwolves, and the Washington Wizards. They shouldn't have the right to be enabled to constantly suck.

[Dex]

It's frustrating how these chronic lottery teams get to keep tanking and stay at the bottom forever. The following teams should be barred for two years from having a lottery pick: Sacramento Kings, Minnesota Timberwolves, and the Washington Wizards. They shouldn't have the right to be enabled to constantly suck.

This should also be a lesson to all the posters who are actively pushing for a full tank.

For every example of a team who tanks hard and gets a franchise-changer....there are 10 teams who tank hard and still end up stuck in the cellar.

The teams you mentioned have been in the lottery for years with nothing to show. The 76ers wrote the current book on tanking and are left with Embiid and Simmons, and they would deal Ben (a big guard who can't shoot) without blinking an eye if the right deal came around.

New Orleans got Davis who walked, and now have Zion who will probably end up walking too when he can.

Phoenix is just now on the rise after a decade of suckage.

A lot of people seem to think we are going to luck into another Tim Duncan if we can get a top 3 pick...and history has shown those cases are rare.

[exstatic]

I agree. What I wanted to see instead was a three-game round robin with the 7-10 teams each playing each other once. Higher seed gets home court for every game, best two records get the 7/8 seeds, regular season seed breaks ties (as opposed to head-to-head record in the round robin). Give every possible advantage to #7 and 8, who in normal times would get their playoff spots outright.

That means if 7 or 8 goes 2-1 they are guaranteed a spot. And start each pair of games at the same time to avoid the problem of one team in a game not having anything to play for.

Too many games. The way it is, there are no more and no less than 3 total games, and the edge is with 7 and 8, as it should be. Quick and fair.

[exstatic]

This should also be a lesson to all the posters who are actively pushing for a full tank.

For every example of a team who tanks hard and gets a franchise-changer....there are 10 teams who tank hard and still end up stuck in the cellar.

The teams you mentioned have been in the lottery for years with nothing to show. The 76ers wrote the current book on tanking and are left with Embiid and Simmons, and they would deal Ben (a big guard who can't shoot) without blinking an eye if the right deal came around.

New Orleans got Davis who walked, and now have Zion who will probably end up walking too when he can.

Phoenix is just now on the rise after a decade of suckage.

A lot of people seem to think we are going to luck into another Tim Duncan if we can get a top 3 pick...and history has shown those cases are rare.

There will never be another Tim Duncan or David Robinson in the draft, that finished product that you plug in, and improve by 35+ games.

[TDomination]

7th seed only needs to win one game in two possible opportunities. If you can’t do that, perhaps you don’t belong in the playoffs.
same goes for 8th seed too though. they only need to win 1 game. not much of an advantage for the 7th seed considering last year mavs were 7 games ahead of the 8th seeded Blazers.

but again in the end it won't matter much for any of those 4 teams as far as championship aspirations are concerned. i just thought adding 7th seed to the play in was dumb.

[cd98]

I agree that going to the lottery does not guarantee success. But the difference between the Kings, Timberwolves, and Wizards and the Spurs is that the Spurs are actually elite at player development. It's drafting and developing talent that is the key to rebuilding this franchise. The better the prospect, the easier to develop into a star.

[Seventyniner]

Too many games. The way it is, there are no more and no less than 3 total games, and the edge is with 7 and 8, as it should be. Quick and fair.

My way has 6 total games, which I don't believe is excessive, and in some scenarios one or two of them wouldn't need to be played at all.

I just don't think the current play-in structure gives enough of an advantage to 7/8. This is just a difference of opinion though.

[exstatic]

My way has 6 total games, which I don't believe is excessive, and in some scenarios one or two of them wouldn't need to be played at all.

I just don't think the current play-in structure gives enough of an advantage to 7/8. This is just a difference of opinion though.

Six games, with travel, in different cities, and you’d have to give days off between games for each team in the round robin.

In the current structure, one of 7/8 automatically makes the playoffs, and 9/10 cannot both make the playoffs. Neither can be said of your scenario. It’s HEAVILY stacked towards 7/8, and I can’t see how you view it otherwise.

[John B]

There will never be another Tim Duncan or David Robinson in the draft, that finished product that you plug in, and improve by 35+ games.
I don't agree. While I think Doncic is a punk, he is a generational talent and very much a finished product at a very young age.

[the golden era]

I really think its total bullshit they made the 7th seed play in this mini tournament. It should have been 9 and 10 play for the right to play the 8th seed. That is it.

[exstatic]

I don't agree. While I think Doncic is a punk, he is a generational talent and very much a finished product at a very young age.did he improve Dallas 35 games immediately? Read, and understand context. Both Tim and David improved the Spurs by at least 35 games, and took them to the second round of the playoffs as rookies.

[exstatic]

I really think its total bullshit they made the 7th seed play in this mini tournament. It should have been 9 and 10 play for the right to play the 8th seed. That is it.

7 seed has two opportunities to win one game and be in the playoffs. If they can’t manage that, they don’t deserve to be there.

[John B]

did he improve Dallas 35 games immediately? Read, and understand context.
Mavericks didn't have a 20-62 record to start. And Doncic didn't have a healthy DRob the following year.
But if you don't get to be so technical about the 35 turnaround, Doncic is a legitimate "generational" finished product from the get go, which is my point.
And fuck :bang, if Dallas play their cards right, Doncic could very well get them a ring or two.

[the golden era]

7 seed has two opportunities to win one game and be in the playoffs. If they can’t manage that, they don’t deserve to be there.
Exstatic, I really don't want to argue with you, your one of the best posters on here, I just think the owners got caught up in trying to compensate of the minus 10 games. West is almost 3 full games gap between 7-8. I suspect it will be more at end of season. I just think it really screws a 7 seed to have to compete in a mini tournament when the regular season proved your chops for a real tournament. I still don't quite understand the logic roping in the 7th seed TBH. But ultimately I can't argue against your logic, especially if the team from 7-8 ends up wining a 7 game series.

[Seventyniner]

Six games, with travel, in different cities, and you’d have to give days off between games for each team in the round robin.

In the current structure, one of 7/8 automatically makes the playoffs, and 9/10 cannot both make the playoffs. Neither can be said of your scenario. It’s HEAVILY stacked towards 7/8, and I can’t see how you view it otherwise.

Good point about my system allowing 9 and 10 to both get in. That shouldn't be possible. My preferred tweak is to give 7 an automatic win over 10 and 8 an automatic win over 9 in the round robin. This reduces games (from 6 to 4) and travel (now equal to the current system), and doesn't allow both 9 and 10 to get in.

In the current system, if each game is a coinflip then 7 and 8 each have a 75% chance of getting in, 25% for 9 and 10. With a higher seed win probability of 50% plus 5% for the number of seeds apart, 7 has an 83.0% chance to get in, 8 is 76.5%, 9 is 23.5%, and 10 is 17.0%.

My newer system makes the probabilities of getting in 81.25% for 7 and 8 compared to 18.75% for 9 and 10 (in the coinflip scenario) and 86.9% for 7, 85.3% for 8, 14.7% for 9, 13.1% for 10 (the 50% + 5% per seed win probability scenario).

I didn't say the current system isn't heavily stacked in 7/8's favor, only that I wish it were more so, especially when 6 is 100% guaranteed to get in. Again, just my opinion.

[RC_Drunkford]

More games = more money

that is what this is all about. Adam Silver is trying to turn the NBA into soccer

[buttsR4rebounding]

Can you imagine losing the 6th seed on a tiebreaker?

[Spurtacular]

Interesting that they're doing that. I wouldn't have even known.

[John B]

Besides more money, I don’t know why NBA has to change it. If teams didn’t meet the cut-off, that’s it. What they should fix is having players forming super teams.

[R. DeMurre]

Money is almost always the reason for any change that feels strange. Now 20 out of 30 teams are in the playoffs, generating some excitement for 4 extra teams that otherwise would be calling it a season. It won't generate too much controversy until a team that had to deal with regular season injuries grabs that 9th or 10th spot, and then--finally healthy-- tears through bottom tier teams. For a league dealing with its second consecutive season of diminished profits due to covid, I can understand it.

[Dejounte]

I think 9th will be Spurs and 10th will be Warriors. Will the Spurs be able to beat the Warriors in an elimination game? Not having Wiseman helps since the Spurs struggle against teams with athletic bigs who are lob threats...

[exstatic]

I think 9th will be Spurs and 10th will be Warriors. Will the Spurs be able to beat the Warriors in an elimination game? Not having Wiseman helps since the Spurs struggle against teams with athletic bigs who are lob threats...

Warriors are hard tanking. Kerr is pulling Curry for long stretches, and only puts him back in late, when it’s out of control. If we’re 9 and they’re ten, we should advance to play the 7/8 loser.

[KingKev]

Warriors are hard tanking. Kerr is pulling Curry for long stretches, and only puts him back in late, when it’s out of control. If we’re 9 and they’re ten, we should advance to play the 7/8 loser.

No way they tank a play in game. Curry will single handedly win that match against us.

[exstatic]

No way they tank a play in game. Curry will single handedly win that match against us.

Why would they tank most of the year, and then play their asses off in a game that could ultimately result in them exiting the lottery? If they lose, they’re guaranteed the lottery, which is what they want. If Curry starts raining 3s, Kerr will just pull him like he is now.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

idk i think its kind of lame that the 7th seed can miss the playoffs b/c of 2 games. usually the 8th 9th seed will have similar records so i do get that but there have been plenty of times where 7th seed is about 5 games up on 8th. And if that were the case this year, to lose your playoffs that you worked all year to earn makes the regular season even more irrelevant.

If you are to include the 7th seed in this mini playoff, it would make more sense to give complete advantage to them by having them play the 10th seed instead of the 8th seed in that first game. Because technically the 7th and 8th seed are playing tougher opponents in that first game then the 9th and 10th seed are.

But whatever, they will all be 1st round fodder anyways.

I'm not a fan of this setup either. Maybe create a play-in tournament for that eighth spot, but even that continues to belittle the point of the regular season. Have 8 and 9 play a two out of three for the right to the eight seed and the opportunity to lose to the 1 seed.

[jjspur]

I totally agree with your points. Best 2 out of 3 for the 8th and 9th seeds but it should be done only if the 9th seed is within 4 games of the 8th seed, otherwise just send the 8th seed to play the 1st seed and get eliminated. As someone mentioned earlier, its about the money generated by the play in games. During this covid season, the NBA is looking for new ways to recoup some lost money.

[Spurtacular]

Why would they tank most of the year, and then play their asses off in a game that could ultimately result in them exiting the lottery? If they lose, they’re guaranteed the lottery, which is what they want. If Curry starts raining 3s, Kerr will just pull him like he is now.

Even if that's the bare bones of it, I should think they'll be more subtle.