Grades: Spurs vs. Heat - Apr. 21, 2021

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-san-antonio-spurs-miami-heat-game-57/

Home court disadvantage strikes again.

[MultiTroll]

Drew Eubanks
".....his hands were extra supple"

:wow

[talkspurs]

the button pop pushed seemed to be the auto pilot button. Cant see how he does not get more Fs.

[spurs10]

This was fun to watch for a little over half a game. Yeah, lose tomorrow and we should break out the nails and hammers.

[John B]

Thanks for the grades. Yet another forgettable game. DJ needs to learn how to attack the zone. I think Pop could've put more Vassell/Walker to shoot the 3's, but as you said, we don't even know what Pop was trying to do. Was that an opportunity to lose? I can't wait for tomorrow and get them on a positive spirit before heading back on the road.

[poopbox]

Has Greg with two g's ever in his nba coaching career figured out how to score consistently against a zone :lmao

I feel like as a spurs fan every team that runs a zone for any length of time always beats us :lmao

Yet the basketball consensus opinion on zone defense in the nba is that you can't run it consistently because nba players are so smart they will easily figure it out :lmao

[Chomag]

Ok all kidding aside, and maybe I'm missing something here but really want to understand how a young player coming off arguably one of his best games as a Spur gets rewarded with 2 dnps (garbage minutes dont count) in a row? Is there any other sports franchise that does this ?

[Elementis]

and the fun fact of the day:
in April (so far), Poeltl has come close to the FT% of an actual NBA player (for a big man at least) at .722 (13 of 18).
it'll still take a miracle for him on the season to get to a rate that will not stick out on the stats as a historic low, but you got to start somewhere..

[slick'81]

Glad were a great road team:rolleyes

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

:pop: "We like what we have ... scouted in the draft"

[Dex]

and the fun fact of the day:
in April (so far), Poeltl has come close to the FT% of an actual NBA player (for a big man at least) at .722 (13 of 18).
it'll still take a miracle for him on the season to get to a rate that will not stick out on the stats as a historic low, but you got to start somewhere..

At least it's trending in the right direction. Gotta be good for his confidence going forward.

[poopbox]

Ok all kidding aside, and maybe I'm missing something here but really want to understand how a young player coming off arguably one of his best games as a Spur gets rewarded with 2 dnps (garbage minutes dont count) in a row? Is there any other sports franchise that does this ?

Because the priority of the head coach is not to just win basketball games, it's to win basketball games HIS WAY playing the players THA HE PREFERS TO PLAY

It doesn't matter how bad Rudy and Patty play...its itched in stone they are playing...

It doesn't matter how good Luka and now Devin play...its itched in stone they are not playing...

[GAustex]

I suspect not only pop plays his favorites but he also plays the highest paid players with some sort of hierarchy that it’s not fair to put lower paid players in pressure situations.

[3&D_TBH]

Ok all kidding aside, and maybe I'm missing something here but really want to understand how a young player coming off arguably one of his best games as a Spur gets rewarded with 2 dnps (garbage minutes dont count) in a row? Is there any other sports franchise that does this ?
No one can explain it. That’s why Pop has fallen out of favor with so many fans. I’m at a loss for words at this point tbh

[BillMc]

Thanks for the grades OP.

That game was seriously depressing. Spurs can't handle zone? Won't play youth. Sigh.

[Fireball]

i extremely laughed about Bill Lands comment "grab it with two hands" related to a home for the elderly :lol

the game sucked badly ... Vassell not playing is a bummer

[Dejounte]

No one can explain it. That’s why Pop has fallen out of favor with so many fans. I’m at a loss for words at this point tbh

Whether fans agree or disagree with the method:

1) Highest paid players get first priority - your max players. Provided they haven't broken down, aren't on the last year of their contract, has no intention of re-signing with the Spurs
2) Vets with expiring contracts get next priority - your players with tenure. These players have a house to pay for, businesses, foundations they support. Imagine if I told you your employer is going to make you stop working and you have to figure out on your own how to pay your bills.
3) then the young players

[Spurs Homer]

There were two sparks to this season that could have possibly turned into fires...

Vassell and Luka


pop is doing all he can to douse the fuck out of those sparks...

the rest of the season has just been a predictable warm state of mediocrity.

[rankingtear]

Unfortunately they don't have the ideal player to break the zone , the passing big man on the high post. They tried Poeltl first - turnover. Rudy worked for 2 possesions. Derozan after but was just too small to get the entry pass.

[Spurs Homer]

Oh yeah

lonnie might still turn into something...if pop retires now

[ginobilized]

The worst news is that it may take Pop 2 more seasons to get the all-time coaching record.
It really is hard to tell what makes this team tick. Is it the coffee gang getting subpar beans in SA that is leading to this home court disadvantage? Vassell has been part of so many of the wins this season, not sure why he’s out of the rotation.

Puzzling team and season.

[John B]

Whether fans agree or disagree with the method:

1) Highest paid players get first priority - your max players. Provided they haven't broken down, aren't on the last year of their contract, has no intention of re-signing with the Spurs
2) Vets with expiring contracts get next priority - your players with tenure. These players have a house to pay for, businesses, foundations they support. Imagine if I told you your employer is going to make you stop working and you have to figure out on your own how to pay your bills.
3) then the young players

I get that, and I'm suspecting Spurs are on a "soft tank." It's just difficult to separate "coaching" and "managing" the club. Because as a coach, Pop is supposed to put the best X's and O's to win games, and that's not what we see, regardless of max players, expiring contracts, etc.

[weebo]

Spurs are tanking ...they're just pretending to be competitive...we all know this team as constructed is going no where...their ceiling is a first round exit...might as well target the draft...win some to keep the fans interested but lose enough to get a decent pick...in the NBA you need at least one alpha to have a shot at the ring ...the Spurs don't have one

[Sugus]

Dejounte, when I was talking about your namesake's limitations in terms of IQ/playstyle, last night was a good example of that. His 3pt shooting was outlier-ly good, which is good to see, but his floor general/PG game was extremely lackluster, especially when faced with the zone. It was obviously a "team effort" losing to that, spearheaded by Pop, but DJ's passiveness, lack of understanding of how he could push the defense to create shots for others, or even score for himself, was bad. I'd have to watch the 4th again to be extra-sure I guess (not like I'd be looking forward to that :lol), but I remember a few possessions where he was straight up passing the ball on the perimeter to other players who were in as bad a position as he was in, and looking like "yo, do something!" as if he'd served them a score on a silver platter.

Not much else to this loss instead of same old Pop... You beat a zone with shooters and/or high post passing, and while we couldn't execute the latter, Pop outright chose not to try the former by benching our most prolific young shooter, again, after his career game. Remember when you were telling me that Pop couldn't be blamed for Lonnie's trust/game issues, and that being benched consecutively and excessively didn't have an apparent effect on his game that could be traced back to Pop? Well..... Sucks to see parts 2 and 3 of the same old story developing again, with Vassell and Luka now both relegated to garbage time, even in games when we could've used their skillsets. Luka especially looked awful last night, totally deflated and going through the motions. Awful play.

I perfectly understand contract players want to play, but ain't no way Rudy or Patty are losing money by being played 5 less mpg (that they're usually shitting the bed with) by giving some space to the next generation. It's just Pop and his ways.

[Dejounte]

Sugus , DJ was due for a bad game. His shooting wasn't "outlier-ly" good when he's done it for 7+ consecutive games. This is an example of downplaying. But like with White, Lonnie, we should extend the same patience when judging his game. White looks solid now but has sucked for majority of the season. It's like we're doing a 20-80 with DJ, using the 20 as a indictment of who he is as a player and using last night to point fingers at his flaws is an example of that. All the while we're doing the reverse with White, using the 20 to say "look how good he looks when he's the point guard!"

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

This was a terribly, terribly, coached game. When Miami went to the zone, Pop really did nothing about it. Against NBA teams a zone works for a few minutes as a surprise shift, the other team makes a couple of adjustments, and within 5 or 6 minutes the zone begins to lose its effectiveness. The Spurs, on the other hand, did nothing to counter the zone, and completely fell apart. The coaching gap between Eric Spoelstra and Pop was obvious last night. Of course, Pop could have made anyone look like a genius last night. Sometimes I wonder if he's mentally just checked out of some games.

And continuing to rely on Mills when he's completely ineffective baffles me as well. Patty does nothing for the team other than shoot and bring semi-effective defensive energy, even when he's not slumping, and so if it's obvious he's moving slowly and can't hit his shots, he needs a quick hook. Same for Gay, although he has some intangibles out there that Mills does not. But when you have Luka and Devin, very capable young players, sitting on the bench, why not play that card when it's obvious your vets aren't bringing anything?

Is there a grade lower than F for Pop? It was painful to watch. The Spurs aren't as bad as they look some nights, but the guy steering the ship is asleep at the wheel it appears.

[Dejounte]

I perfectly understand contract players want to play, but ain't no way Rudy or Patty are losing money by being played 5 less mpg (that they're usually shitting the bed with) by giving some space to the next generation. It's just Pop and his ways.

What exactly would Luka & Devin do with five minutes of playing time? Come now...

Regarding "Pop and his ways", what are his ways? Let's dig deeper into that...

Even a person who does the most nonsensical things, such as storming the capitol, has a root cause behind their way of thinking.

Without context, without more information, without words straight from the horse's mouth (in some cases, we've heard the words), there is a gap of information that is missing.

And with that gap, fans fill it with assumptions, sometimes with wild thoughts depending on how emotionally invested they are in the team.

[Mugen]

This was a terribly, terribly, coached game. When Miami went to the zone, Pop really did nothing about it. Against NBA teams a zone works for a few minutes as a surprise shift, the other team makes a couple of adjustments, and within 5 or 6 minutes the zone begins to lose its effectiveness. The Spurs, on the other hand, did nothing to counter the zone, and completely fell apart. The coaching gap between Eric Spoelstra and Pop was obvious last night. Of course, Pop could have made anyone look like a genius last night. Sometimes I wonder if he's mentally just checked out of some games.

And continuing to rely on Mills when he's completely ineffective baffles me as well. Patty does nothing for the team other than shoot and bring semi-effective defensive energy, even when he's not slumping, and so if it's obvious he's moving slowly and can't hit his shots, he needs a quick hook. Same for Gay, although he has some intangibles out there that Mills does not. But when you have Luka and Devin, very capable young players, sitting on the bench, why not play that card when it's obvious your vets aren't bringing anything?

Is there a grade lower than F for Pop? It was painful to watch. The Spurs aren't as bad as they look some nights, but the guy steering the ship is asleep at the wheel it appears.

Chopper

[John B]

The earlier Spurs fans accept that we are on a "soft tank," the easier to accept these losses

[Sugus]

Sugus , DJ was due for a bad game.

Bahaha, we're crossing replies in two different threads speaking on the same subject.


His shooting wasn't "outlier-ly" good when he's done it for 7+ consecutive games. This is an example of downplaying. But like with White, Lonnie, we should extend the same patience when judging his game. White looks solid now but has sucked for majority of the season. It's like we're doing a 20-80 with DJ, using the 20 as a indictment of who he is as a player and using last night to point fingers at his flaws is an example of that. All the while we're doing the reverse with White, using the 20 to say "look how good he looks when he's the point guard!"

Disagree on his shooting. I actually went and looked: he didn't shoot as well as I'd imagined (only 3-of-8 3pt made), yet that 8 3PA was actually a season-high of attempts for him. The last 5 games, he shot 1-2, 1-1, 2-4, 2-5, 2-5. So ehh, I don't think I'm downplaying that shooting outing; if anything, it weakens my previous argument of how he'd be better playing SG. His form on 3s is good, but only on C&S; he has little to no pull-up ability, no step-back moves, no side-step moves, and most importantly, no understanding of the modern game to realize that his pull-up shots would be ridiculously better for the team if he did them 5 ft back from where he shoots them. Having a PG that's so limited in outside shootings is practically and literally a death sentence in the NBA - which playoff defense is going over on any screens set for Dejounte in a series? No smart scouting ones, I can tell you that, and DJ can't (won't?) make them pay. And again, that's not something you develop out of the blue after your 5th NBA season, unless you're a Jaylen Brown level talent... You're either born into the side-step 3, or you ain't (:lol modern NBA :lol).

As for the rest, I don't disagree entirely, and I'm perfectly fine with giving DJ one more year, I guess. At the very least, it'd be good to see him actually get a chance to be the consistent leader/go-to guy with DeRozan gone (praydog.jpg), and see if he can evolve to rise to that challenge (the Atlanta game winner comes to mind here, could he be that player night in, night out?). But again, I think we fundamentally disagree on his perceived ceiling; I don't expect him to have much more room to grow than what he did already. His counting stats can, should, and will get better, but there's certain aspects of the game, especially pertaining IQ and distance shooting, that are just impossible to develop past a certain age in an NBA-hypercompetitive context.

In my mind, the next Spurs PG that could have the chance to lift a LOB has not been drafted yet... So why not sell high on your best performing young player, get a couple late lotto picks (an incredible ROI for a 29th pick, would that be, btw), and roll the dice again?

E: I'm stepping out for a couple hours, so I can reply to you in full later, this crossing of quotes is bad for my mind :lol

[The Truth #6]

There were two sparks to this season that could have possibly turned into fires...

Vassell and Luka


pop is doing all he can to douse the fuck out of those sparks...

the rest of the season has just been a predictable warm state of mediocrity.

That’s the truth. There definitely was optimism from the bubble, but that burst in preseason, and since then it’s just been a bipolar roller coaster ride.

Insane they didn’t try to build off of Luka’s brief hot streak, his defense was completely shutting everyone down.

[NK123]

Because the priority of the head coach is not to just win basketball games, it's to win basketball games HIS WAY playing the players THA HE PREFERS TO PLAY

It doesn't matter how bad Rudy and Patty play...its itched in stone they are playing...

It doesn't matter how good Luka and now Devin play...its itched in stone they are not playing...

You said everything...

[Spurs Homer]

What exactly would Luka & Devin do with five minutes of playing time? Come now...

Regarding "Pop and his ways", what are his ways? Let's dig deeper into that...

Even a person who does the most nonsensical things, such as storming the capitol, has a root cause behind their way of thinking.

Without context, without more information, without words straight from the horse's mouth (in some cases, we've heard the words), there is a gap of information that is missing.

And with that gap, fans fill it with assumptions, sometimes with wild thoughts depending on how emotionally invested they are in the team.


it isn’t rocket science

look at goofy ass ewwwbanks

give him enough minutes and what does he do?

he does what he has done all his life- IMPROVE.

And when you do what R.C. Buford does as well as anyone in the NBA - FIND HIDDEN GEMS

Then -as a coach- all you have to do is play the shit out of them until they IMPROVE

you can give shitty mills and -never won a title GAY - thousands of minutes and they will do what they have always done, which for mills is a decent low minutes off the bench spark once in a blue moon
and gay = a chucker who can occassionally look like a stud - while most nights just a “collect a paycheck” journeyman

or you can give the most talented prospects some real run


not fucking rocket science

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

The shit isn’t rocket science, Rudy and Patty are gassed and Pop doesn’t trust the young guys enough. It’s frustrating as hell to see Pop do the same stuff over and over expecting a different result but the last few seasons this has been him.


SMH