Grades: Spurs @ Heat - Apr. 28, 2021

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-san-antonio-spurs-miami-heat-game-61/

[John B]

Thanks for the grades. I think a grade of B for Poeltl is too high. Bam Adebayo had too many offensive rebounds plus and1's, that probably caused the Spurs the game. Another one was the 17-0 Miami run with Patty being a defensive liability, and not scoring a single basket. That means a grade of B for Pop was also too high, for letting a 17-0 Miami run and keeping Patty in there for too long, until finally substituting him with Vassell, by then the Spurs was already down by 12 pts. The Spurs got close, but again Poeltl not controlling the rebound and letting Adebayo score an and1, and a silly foul on Butler to give Miami opportunity to extend the lead to 5 pts. I think that was a very winnable game that the Spurs let go due to 1. Pop not making the correct call during that 17-0 run, and 2. Poeltl not controlling the rebound with only 7 rebounds for the game for Spurs starting Center. I'm sorry, but with Poeltl's height and length, I expect him to rebound in double figures every night, and especially not allowing the opponent with too many offensive rebounds.

[ace3g]

Key stretch here....


https://a1.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/headshots/nba/players/full/4395630.png&h=152&w=152&scale=crop&transparent=true
https://a1.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/nba/500/sa.png&h=16&w=16 4:13 - 3rd
Devin Vassell makes 23-foot three point jumper (DeMar DeRozan assists)

74 - 67



grrrrr

1:08 - 3rd


1
2
3
4
T


SA
20
34
20

74


MIA
31
24
21

76





4:13 drought for Spurs...

End of 3rd


1
2
3
4
T


SA
20
34
20

74


MIA
31
24
27

82

[slick'81]

Free DV

[BillMc]

Thanks OP.

I thought the grades were a bit generous to Jakob and Lonnie, but as usual an interesting read. DJ is really our best young guy now. He's proven me wrong

[Truth4sale$]

Thanks for the writeup. I saw Lonnie get burned in the 4th quite frequently by Dragic , so I dont think his defense was that good, but I was happy he finally got more minutes than Patty. Speaking of Patty, he has been in such a slump it might be time to give him 2 games off, and role with Tre Jones for defense.
Loved that Devin Vaseel got the start but wondering if it is better to go with Luka Samanic and see what the guy can do with consistent minutes to learn and make mistakes.

[Down Under]

Impressed with Dejounte's handles this game, which have gradually gotten better. Had some really quick crossovers tonight which surprised me.

[Down Under]

Lonnie's onball defense is ok, switching is not great

[Dirks_Finale]

Thanks for the grades. I think a grade of B for Poeltl is too high. Bam Adebayo had too many offensive rebounds plus and1's, that probably caused the Spurs the game. Another one was the 17-0 Miami run with Patty being a defensive liability, and not scoring a single basket. That means a grade of B for Pop was also too high, for letting a 17-0 Miami run and keeping Patty in there for too long, until finally substituting him with Vassell, by then the Spurs was already down by 12 pts. The Spurs got close, but again Poeltl not controlling the rebound and letting Adebayo score an and1, and a silly foul on Butler to give Miami opportunity to extend the lead to 5 pts. I think that was a very winnable game that the Spurs let go due to 1. Pop not making the correct call during that 17-0 run, and 2. Poeltl not controlling the rebound with only 7 rebounds for the game for Spurs starting Center. I'm sorry, but with Poeltl's height and length, I expect him to rebound in double figures every night, and especially not allowing the opponent with too many offensive rebounds.

Meh, different era. Bunch of 3's, mean too many long rebounds. Even Bam (shorter but more talented) does not average double digit boards.

[paperboy77]

For a second there I thought SA won. Thought our centers got owned and Pop again was outcoached.

[GAustex]

Walker was terrible on defense and cost the Spurs the win. His grade is way too high.
Walker has not sense-no acumen for the game
Such a disappointment Walker is

[Slippy]

Walker was terrible on defense and cost the Spurs the win. His grade is way too high.
Walker has not sense-no acumen for the game
Such a disappointment Walker is

Ok so timvp gave a A - and you think he cost us the game.

Such contrasting takes. Lol

My view A is generous but agree with his summary.

Reckon walker got the spurs back into with a hot 2nd quarter and spurs got out of it in the 3rd . Patty lead the way.

[GAustex]

Ok so timvp gave a A - and you think he cost us the game.

Such contrasting takes. Lol

My view A is generous but agree with his summary.

Reckon walker got the spurs back into with a hot 2nd quarter and spurs got out of it in the 3rd . Patty lead the way.
Yep that is what I think
Do not know why OP thinks so high if Walker. Maybe OP is protecting Walkers fragile psyche.
Walker is clueless. I think he is mentally slow.

[Dejounte]

What's crazy is we have more shitty players this year than last yet we are a better team than last year.

Last year's crappy players (rotational players only):
Bryn Forbes
Trey Lyles

This year's crappy players (rotational players only):
LMA before he was gone
Rudy Gay (he was bad last year but this year it's on a way more frequent basis)
Patty Mills (the last 20 games at least)
Derrick White (when he came back from injury)
Lonnie Walker (75% of the time)
Jakob (early on in the season)
DeMar (50% of the time)

Some players have really stepped it up. That and maybe LMA's style of play really drags the team down.

[PrimeMinister]

Lonnie Walker is 22 years old - he is a basketball child

Had an excellent March. Looked massively improved in all areas of the game. Has not carried that over to April with Derrick growing into the player he was prior to the injury. Now with Derrick out he has the obvious need to increase his scoring production which we saw with 18 last night but obviously he is not the team or individual defender Derrick white is.

It’s gonna be ups and downs with these dudes. Derrick was the glue that kept the line up together and now they have to quickly put it all back together.

[offset formation]

Pop gets an F from me each time he fails to put Luka (and Devin) in the game.

Big F.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Didn’t watch cause I loathe Derozan on our team but I read his grade. Yup that’s him lol how can anybody be a fan of that guy ?

[KobesAchilles]

What's crazy is we have more shitty players this year than last yet we are a better team than last year.

Last year's crappy players (rotational players only):
Bryn Forbes
Trey Lyles

This year's crappy players (rotational players only):
LMA before he was gone
Rudy Gay (he was bad last year but this year it's on a way more frequent basis)
Patty Mills (the last 20 games at least)
Derrick White (when he came back from injury)
Lonnie Walker (75% of the time)
Jakob (early on in the season)
DeMar (50% of the time)

Some players have really stepped it up. That and maybe LMA's style of play really drags the team down.
It's amazing the scrubs Demar has had to carry in his tenure here.

[dbestpro]

Time to start holding all of these players more accountable and grade with a more tough curve like we use to see with the big 3. Grade against their capability. Every game Pop loses should not be better than a C. He is suppose to be a hall of fame coach.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Patty Mills
Oof. Mills has fallen off since the All-Star break … and his decline continued on Wednesday night. He was asked to handle the ball more with White out and the results were disastrous. Instead of running offense, he was trying to chuck as much as possible. Once upon a time, Mills was having a very good season — perhaps the best of his career. But these days, he’s a liability just about every game.
Grade: F

Patty "Chucker" Mills!!

I'm really hopefully the Spurs can upgrade the backup shooting/point/wing positions this offseason and move Patty into more of a consulting role.

Nice job on the grades Timvp. Poetl's late foul on Butler had me screaming at the TV. I love the guy's heart. He plays super hard, but he makes a bonehead play or three every game. This one was costly, as that would have changed our end of game strategy a little bit.

[John B]

What's crazy is we have more shitty players this year than last yet we are a better team than last year.

Last year's crappy players (rotational players only):
Bryn Forbes
Trey Lyles

This year's crappy players (rotational players only):
LMA before he was gone
Rudy Gay (he was bad last year but this year it's on a way more frequent basis)
Patty Mills (the last 20 games at least)
Derrick White (when he came back from injury)
Lonnie Walker (75% of the time)
Jakob (early on in the season)
DeMar (50% of the time)

Some players have really stepped it up. That and maybe LMA's style of play really drags the team down.

Jakob was bad early and still bad. I don't care about advanced analytics, or top 10 defensive center. The guy cannot rebound when it matters. Random big men abuse him in the paint, and not just Bam Adebayo. Dewayne Dedmon looked like the 2nd coming of Wilt next to him. People will be quick to throw in his blocks percentage, but how many layups or dunks does he let by? There was a block last night on a possession, but the opponent gathered again and laid up for a score. Was that really counted as a block? I'm not hating on Poeltl, but he's an overrated defensive big to me. Sure he gets a good game every now and then, but for the most part, I'm not impressed. 19 years of Timmy makes me put a high standard on interior defense. Sorry Poeltl.

[Dejounte]

Jakob was bad early and still bad. I don't care about advanced analytics, or top 10 defensive center. The guy cannot rebound when it matters. Random big men abuse him in the paint, and not just Bam Adebayo. Dewayne Dedmon looked like the 2nd coming of Wilt next to him. People will be quick to throw in his blocks percentage, but how many layups or dunks does he let by? There was a block last night on a possession, but the opponent gathered again and laid up for a score. Was that really counted as a block? I'm not hating on Poeltl, but he's an overrated defensive big to me. Sure he gets a good game every now and then, but for the most part, I'm not impressed. 19 years of Timmy makes me put a high standard on interior defense. Sorry Poeltl.

This legit reads like some of the posts about Murray and the hate he gets :lmao

"Murray's still not a PG to me!!"

[John B]

This legit reads like some of the posts about Murray and the hate he gets :lmao

"Murray's still not a PG to me!!"

It wasn't about Murray though. It was about Poeltl getting a B on a night where they lost because the opponent kept getting offensive rebounds and converting, and Dewayne getting a career night on dunks, which to me lost us the game. How many times do we see a random big dunk on our starting center?

[Spurs Homer]

The good news

vassell will get minutes

watch what happens over next 10 games

Luka would benefit greatly if he had consistent minutes

[Dejounte]

It wasn't about Murray though. It was about Poeltl getting a B on a night where they lost because the opponent kept getting offensive rebounds and converting, and Dewayne getting a career night on dunks, which to me lost us the game. How many times do we see a random big dunk on our starting center?

I know it wasn't about Murray. My point is that all of us have specific players who will never "fill our cup" no matter what they do. And that's fine.

[MultiTroll]

Time to start holding all of these players more accountable and grade with a more tough curve like we use to see with the big 3. Grade against their capability. Every game Pop loses should not be better than a C. He is suppose to be a hall of fame coach.
Rule of thumb is subtract 1 or 2 grades from whatever Popped is given. :lol

Key stretch was obviously here:
(props to 8sy21vd for summing)


Nice quarter from Mills lol



End of the 3rd Quarter
74 - 82


Patty Mills misses 26-foot three point jumper
74 - 77


Patty Mills misses 17-foot pullup jump shot
74 - 76


Patty Mills bad pass (Goran Dragic steals)
74 - 76


Patty Mills shooting foul
74 - 71


Patty Mills personal foul
74 - 67


Patty Mills defensive rebound
71 - 65


Patty Mills misses 26-foot three point jumper
69 - 65


Patty Mills enters the game for Dejounte Murray
69 - 65

[GAustex]

Murray has progressed nicely. Keldon has too. White and Jak too.
Lonnie has progressed backward. Lonnie is most disappointing of the young ones. So much unrealized talent.

[Dejounte]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap9clVzuLww

Murray is really keeping his dribble much lower than I've seen him do before

[John B]

I know it wasn't about Murray. My point is that all of us have specific players who will never "fill our cup" no matter what they do. And that's fine.
Just watch again how Butler, Adebayo and even Dedmon abused our starting center. Offensive rebound on Adebayo and and1, silly foul on Butler jump shot which cost us the game, and a grade of B?

[SpursDynasty85]

Jakob was bad early and still bad. I don't care about advanced analytics, or top 10 defensive center. The guy cannot rebound when it matters. Random big men abuse him in the paint, and not just Bam Adebayo. Dewayne Dedmon looked like the 2nd coming of Wilt next to him. People will be quick to throw in his blocks percentage, but how many layups or dunks does he let by? There was a block last night on a possession, but the opponent gathered again and laid up for a score. Was that really counted as a block? I'm not hating on Poeltl, but he's an overrated defensive big to me. Sure he gets a good game every now and then, but for the most part, I'm not impressed. 19 years of Timmy makes me put a high standard on interior defense. Sorry Poeltl.

I don’t blame Poeltl too much because Dedmon got a ton of out backs and offensive rebounds because of the help Poeltl provides. Our PFs are Derozan and Keldon to help box out which they were easily abused by the crashing centers and forwards from the Heat. I was worried about front court though as a whole. Rudy and Keldon as PFs aren’t going to cut it against half the teams in the league.

[tmtcsc]

Thanks OP.

I thought the grades were a bit generous to Jakob and Lonnie, but as usual an interesting read. DJ is really our best young guy now. He's proven me wrong

Yeah, I agree with you Bill. Jakob would have gotten a C- or D from me. Every time there was a battle for a board it seemed like Dedmon was the scrappiest one in there. No sign of Poeltl. As for Lonnie, I thought he was just ok. He needs to decide what type of player he wants to be. He cant just sit back and be the guy that has a great game every now and then. He needs to work on consistently performing every time he steps on the floor.

As for DJ, I was a bonafide hater in his first few seasons. All the selfies and talk of greatness without producing on the floor made me ill. He was all talk and no walk. Fast forward to now and he's a real player. Looks like he matured and put in the necessary work to play at the NBA level and make a solid impact. I hope Lonnie follows in his footsteps. He still seems unsure of how good he can be and still looks lost at times. Definitely needs to improve his finishes at the rim.

[emanueldavidginobili]

DJ showed flashes of some elite moves and decisions last night. A 27 year old Dejounte Murray might be a really really great player, i’m excited for his future in this league.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Rule of thumb is subtract 1 or 2 grades from whatever Popped is given. :lol

Key stretch was obviously here:
(props to 8sy21vd for summing)

It felt like the game fell apart when Mills came in. Thanks to 8sy21vd for confirming. Of course, that's the case most games these days it seems.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap9clVzuLww

Murray is really keeping his dribble much lower than I've seen him do before

His development has impressed me a lot. I thought his ceiling might be an out of position shooting guard who can play defense but can't shoot. But he's been great this season and watching his maturity and his confidence improve every game is awesome. Probably our best young player, even exceeding Keldon, fairly significantly, at this point.

[Trill Clinton]

Pop gets an F from me each time he fails to put Luka (and Devin) in the game.

Big F.

Devin started and we're trying to win, Luka does nothing when he gets PT.

[John B]

Devin started and we're trying to win, Luka does nothing when he gets PT.
Devin did look good out there. He started slow, but picked-up eventually. Seeing Patty missed 3pt shots and not play defense, while Devin sits is really frustrating

[rjv]

murray has proven that triple doubles are not a fluke for him. i think he has the capability of becoming a legit PG and an occasional all-star reserve. he really has come a long way in a short time (and overcame a significant injury along the way). kudos to murray.

[rjv]

btw, i think posters were knee-jerking their reactions to rudy last night. were they watching the same game as i was? rudy had a nice outing. but just because he's out there with mills doesn't mean he's part of the problem. mills, on the other hand, is the reason we lost the game. and i think pop stuck with him too long. nice outing by walker though. he's almost there. just needs to get over that mental hump. and that dragic bullshit three-pointer turned out to be big.

[Seventyniner]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap9clVzuLww

Murray is really keeping his dribble much lower than I've seen him do before

His decrease in TOV% is striking (15.4% last year to 10.0% this year), and is imo the best improvement he has made.

I really don't like how easily assists are scored, though. The first two highlights in that video shouldn't be assists imo. But the NBA has painted itself into a corner in that regard; if they start being stingy with assists then there would be far fewer triple doubles and old records would last forever.

[John B]

His decrease in TOV% is striking (15.4% last year to 10.0% this year), and is imo the best improvement he has made.

I really don't like how easily assists are scored, though. The first two highlights in that video shouldn't be assists imo. But the NBA has painted itself into a corner in that regard; if they start being stingy with assists then there would be far fewer triple doubles and old records would last forever.

Yup I counted at least 3 that I wouldn't count as assist. How could a pass to Keldon dribbled another 5-7 times, or Poeltl making a turn-around an assist?
But I like for Murray to get that triple-double record, just maybe FA's would see a promising All-Star that they would probably like to play with.

[SpursDynasty85]

His development has impressed me a lot. I thought his ceiling might be an out of position shooting guard who can play defense but can't shoot. But he's been great this season and watching his maturity and his confidence improve every game is awesome. Probably our best young player, even exceeding Keldon, fairly significantly, at this point.


Just want to add an observation at just what Keldon's role is. He sits on the bench heavily some nights and when he is on the court, he can go for long spells of not seeing a sniff of the ball. I do love how Keldon never complains and always supports his team no matter what though. DJ does seem like someone who will get better incrementally every year for the next 7 years though. excited too.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Just want to add an observation at just what Keldon's role is. He sits on the bench heavily some nights and when he is on the court, he can go for long spells of not seeing a sniff of the ball. I do love how Keldon never complains and always supports his team no matter what though. DJ does seem like someone who will get better incrementally every year for the next 7 years though. excited too.

:tu For sure. Not a knock on Keldon. He's basically in his rookie year as he didn't see the court with varsity last year until the bubble.

[slick'81]

DJ showed flashes of some elite moves and decisions last night. A 27 year old Dejounte Murray might be a really really great player, i’m excited for his future in this league.


His contract cant be looked as anything but a absolute steal right now. Spurs didnt overpay a penny for dj or white for that matter

[TD 21]

Yeah, I agree with you Bill. Jakob would have gotten a C- or D from me. Every time there was a battle for a board it seemed like Dedmon was the scrappiest one in there. No sign of Poeltl. As for Lonnie, I thought he was just ok. He needs to decide what type of player he wants to be. He cant just sit back and be the guy that has a great game every now and then. He needs to work on consistently performing every time he steps on the floor.

As for DJ, I was a bonafide hater in his first few seasons. All the selfies and talk of greatness without producing on the floor made me ill. He was all talk and no walk. Fast forward to now and he's a real player. Looks like he matured and put in the necessary work to play at the NBA level and make a solid impact. I hope Lonnie follows in his footsteps. He still seems unsure of how good he can be and still looks lost at times. Definitely needs to improve his finishes at the rim.

Walker IV has always seemed displeased with his role (off ball instead of on + sporadic minutes) and if you saw/heard his post game interview, it was clearly exacerbated with Vassell getting the starting nod.

I'm sure they sense that, which is why Pop throws out the Ginobili talk (both to make him think he can play a similar role and to realize, if it was good enough for him, how could it not be for you?), but the reality is he's not a primary ball handler and the bench is still based around Mills and Gay.

Granted, there's change coming, but I find it hard to believe they don't bring in a shot creator to replace DeRozan (Fournier, Dinwiddie, Nunn?), as White and Murray are insufficient and the former isn't durable either. All of which is to say, his days are numbered and it wouldn't surprise me if he requests a trade this off season.

[BackHome]

Devin started and we're trying to win, Luka does nothing when he gets PT.

Umm you can’t get better if you don’t play and if your following Pop coaching we not trying to win we trying to tank.

[RC_Drunkford]

Lonnie did well on defense? He was all out of place in the 4th and commited 3 dumb fouls. That's an A-?

[Sugus]

I don’t blame Poeltl too much because Dedmon got a ton of out backs and offensive rebounds because of the help Poeltl provides. Our PFs are Derozan and Keldon to help box out which they were easily abused by the crashing centers and forwards from the Heat. I was worried about front court though as a whole. Rudy and Keldon as PFs aren’t going to cut it against half the teams in the league.

This concept is absolutely lost for some reason whenever people talk about rebounding battles or second chance points. Keldon is undersized at PF and, even though he's a scrappy rebounder, doesn't have the height, length, nor strength of actual PFs (let alone Cs) to help win rebounding battles most games - not to mention his style of offensive play is incredibly physically taxing, leaving him little energy (and often, opportunity) to help with rebounds. DeRozan's case doesn't even need explaining, dude should've never played a game at PF if it wasn't for the wacky modern NBA, and him continuing to do so is both a critique of his antiquated game, which forces him to be played out of position, and the FO's team building. Lastly, the Spurs as a team are terrible at boxing out, just completely bad and low effort most if not every night. Couple that with Jakob not being an aggressive rebounder, and it's a recipe for losing the rebounding battle every night.

It's funny that people say he should be getting two digit rebounds every night. He's gotten two-digit rebounds many games this season; yet how many of those games did the Spurs as a team outrebound their opponent? Not many, if at all. Rebounding is, moreso in this era of long shots, a team effort, and beyond DJ, we've got little to no players that are better-than-average rebounders for their position. Playing Keldon at SF with Luka or whomever at PF would go a great length towards mitigating this, giving the Spurs a properly sized lineup; currently, Pop loves to use lineups featuring Patty, Lonnie (at SF!), Gay, DeRozan. Undersized at 4 out of 5 positions ain't gonna get you many rebounds in this league, tbh. But scapegoats are always a necessity when things are going wrong - even I tend to do it with Pop's coaching sometimes.

[spurs10]

Thanks for the grades. That 3rd quarter was a disaster. Let's go in Boston!

[TheChillFactor]

I just want to finish these 11 games left (and the play-in) with no injuries. Its literally the only thing I care about at this point.

I think the team has shown a lot during this crazy season. Hopefully, we can add a quality player in LMA or DeMar's slot and keep pounding next year.