Grades: Spurs at Celtics - Apr. 30, 2021

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-san-antonio-spurs-boston-celtics-game-62/

Welp, that sucked.

[lefty]

yep

[slick'81]

Ooof

[tonski117]

Murray was out of control in the second half, he should have issued drop passes to jakob instead of forcing the issue.
keldon should learn how to shoot the three when given the kickout pass.
Spurs were known for pick and rolls before but now its all isolation.huhu

[spurs10]

I have to admit that after the collapse at the end of the 3rd I couldn't stand to watch and just started following the play-by-play on my Spurs app. My question was why wasn't Tatum being doubled? They certainly doubled DDR. It seems like getting the ball out of his hands might not have been a bad idea. I don't recall ever seeing a game where a team chokes away a 32 point lead. Thanks for the grades.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Disappointing loss but I like it that they’re playing in so many competitive close games. Should be good for development.

[james evans]

what's the point of these grades if Popovich is never gonna get an F?

[Spurtacular]

I was very unimpressed with the Spurs lack of ability to get a shot up with 4 seconds left even if they did have to go the length of the court.

[JeffDuncan]

what's the point of these grades if Popovich is never gonna get an F?

That inbound lob attempt from Gay to Walker, by itself, should get Pop an F. It was moronic.

But mainly, Pop should get an F for his failure to motivate the team in the 2nd half. The Spurs lost because they went into slowdown mode, like an NFL team going into a prevent defense. Sports fans know how often that backfires. The Spurs slowed themselves down without slowing the Celtics. Was the problem. Pop did nothing about it.

The officiating was trash again, also. Look at the number of free throw attempts. The refs made it almost impossible to play the game.

[venitian navigator]

I totally disagree with the c for Pop. This loss is mainly on him... As any loss coming from a 32 points advantage (23 with 16 minutes to finish) has to be considered a coaching responsibility. I blame pop msinly because he didn't face the refs after they were giving a ridiculous amount of "and ones" to the Celtics for absolutely no reason, so cidcomnilsting the mind of his players that didn't understand anymore how and if to defend... I blame Pop because our advantage has been built in reason of good game and wonderful percentages while Celtics coming back has been built mainly for the wrong refs attitude that made our players lose confidence step by step. These are the situations where a good coach MUST let feel the refs they are behaving in a wrong way. The only moment he decided to do do was when he challenged the blatantly wrong call on Poeltl... But that was obviously too little too late...

[Spurtacular]

I totally disagree with the c for Pop. This loss is mainly on him... As any loss coming from a 32 points advantage (23 with 16 minutes to finish) has to be considered a coaching responsibility. I blame pop msinly because he didn't face the refs after they were giving a ridiculous amount of "and ones" to the Celtics for absolutely no reason, so cidcomnilsting the mind of his players that didn't understand anymore how and if to defend... I blame Pop because our advantage has been built in reason of good game and wonderful percentages while Celtics coming back has been built mainly for the wrong refs attitude that made our players lose confidence step by step. These are the situations where a good coach MUST let feel the refs they are behaving in a wrong way. The only moment he decided to do do was when he challenged the blatantly wrong call on Poeltl... But that was obviously too little too late...

They do this to "hold the viewership". But it does literally rob teams of wins. And I think it's ultimately questionable at this point whether it's really good for viewership. There are people like me who just tune out completely cos it's all artificial. I'm fine with watching a real game that is double digit difference. It makes the close games that more enjoyable. And it makes the comebacks authentic. NBA is just not watchable any more.

[Truth4sale$]

I gotta say this is one of the worst losses EVER by the Spurs. Popovich stopped coaching at half. He made no substitutions outside his core guys, and made no adjustments. Tatum is too big and skilled for rookie Vassell or 6'4 Lonnie. No adjustment, should have tried and thrown Samanic or KBD on Tatum. Mills has to sit for a few games, he has NOTHING left right now. This is why Tre Jones should have been getting more minutes earlier in the season, could have used his defense and ability to run a team.

[Robz4000]

Not sure how Pop and Mills don't get F's tbh.

[sananspursfan21]

I’ve tried to be understanding of these guys for the most part this season, as this is largely a young team, but 32 points? I don’t have much sympathy for that. No shame in losing to Boston in a close one, but man, 32...

[Rummpd]

Pop deserves a G- at best - he is now offiicially retired in place.

[CGD]

Ouch. Turned of game after 2nd. Didnt expect this

[Biggems]

I wonder if the basket had anything to do with it. I know the Celtics scored over 30 in the 2nd Q, but they shot in the low 30s in the first half, while the Spurs were at 70%. Then, in the 2nd half, when the teams switched ends, the Celtics couldn't miss and the Spurs couldn't buy a basket.

I have seen this before, so many times. One one end of the court, both teams struggle mightily to score, then on the other basket, both teams are like the Harlem Globetrotters, where everything goes in.

I am not trying to make excuses for that absurd choke job.....just an observation. Maybe the first half Celtics rim, which was the 2nd half Spurs rim was borrowed from a traveling carnival.


BTW, we shouldn't have been in the position, but we were, the call on Poeltl was horrible. We were up by 1, on the Celtics inbound. Poeltl makes a great play and the ball goes to Murray with a chance to go up by as many as 4 with just a few seconds left. Instead to sorry ass refs fucked up and erroneously blew the whistle prior to Murray catching the ball. I knew when a jump ball was called, they would get it and score a 3. We got fucking hosed on that call. Then, the Celtics got jobbed a few seconds later. Tatum should have had an and 1, but the refs said the whistle blew too soon, BULLSHIT. I feel it was a makeup call for their fuck up just a few seconds prior. So, we are down 3 and we give the ball to Mr. Nutless and instead of him shooting the ball, he passes the ball giving Rudy no time to shoot.....Just shitty. Oh, and on our inbounds play, the lob to the basket, what kind of mediocre bullshit was that? It was one of the worst inbounds plays I have ever seen the Spurs run in the Pop era.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/TheTyJager/status/1388288693740490752?s=19

[mo7888]

I'm ok with the C for pop.... average coaches don't make any moves and he's very average at this point...he didn't do anything....when Tatum was going off he didn't try anything different....could have put Luke or KBD on him for a stretch to see if would make any difference but, no, he just let's it play out....totally average....

His FO is average too...doesn't do anything...everything Pop has anything to do with right now is just average...

Currently there are 15 teams ahead of us in league standings and 14 teams behind us.... He's the definition of average....

[Dejounte]

Vassell being overmatched in size against Tatum is an example why I believe he's a SG (or an undersized SF). Which is fine... He's good as a SG, even though he was a no show last night.

[Harry Callahan]

The Spurs need to RIP the band-Aid off and see where the younguns can go the next few years.

DeRozan is a very good player. Just good enough to prevent you from acquiring top shelf talent at the top of the draft. Eating up a big chunk of cap space at 32 years old.

I don't want to see the treadmill for the next 3-4 years. I might be OK with DDR at $15MM per, but he would be "insulted" by that amount.

Let him walk and get to work front office.

[Dejounte]

I wonder if Patty is going through something personal. He is clearly not himself, even off the court. I remember a more energetic Patty who would pump his teammates up when they would walk to the bench. Now we see a Patty who blames his own teammates when it was his own fuck up. Feeling the pressure of a lower contract this summer, Patty?

[GreekSpursfan]

It's been a while since i had the time to see a Spurs game because i'm working like crazy but now that is holiday season for us in Greece(Easter is this weekend) i sat down and watched this game and i hope i had gone to sleep at half time but... Unfortunately the bball IQ of this team is the biggest problem and it shows when they're in any kind of pressure. Anyway i enjoyed watching my team again, Go Spurs Go!

[Mugen]

OP how did you like Pop dusting off that end of game play call for a Lonnie alley oop? :lmao

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

Pop deserves a G- at best - he is now offiicially retired in place.


lmao. A (G-)

:rollin

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

Vassell being overmatched in size against Tatum is an example why I believe he's a SG (or an undersized SF). Which is fine... He's good as a SG, even though he was a no show last night.

he gotta hit the weight room also. Don’t get too big but he definitely needs a little more muscle.


we have nobody on the roster that can guard Tatum and Brown. The closest guys in size are Demar and Rudy. Both of those guys can’t truly guard them and I don’t know if Luka or Bates Diop would be able to also.

[paperboy77]

I'm ok with the C for pop.... average coaches don't make any moves and he's very average at this point...he didn't do anything....when Tatum was going off he didn't try anything different....could have put Luke or KBD on him for a stretch to see if would make any difference but, no, he just let's it play out....totally average....

His FO is average too...doesn't do anything...everything Pop has anything to do with right now is just average...

Currently there are 15 teams ahead of us in league standings and 14 teams behind us.... He's the definition of average....

We are becoming the damn Cowboys!

[paperboy77]

Pop deserves a G- at best - he is now offiicially retired in place.

Holy crap.. this right here!

[Dejounte]

he gotta hit the weight room also. Don’t get too big but he definitely needs a little more muscle.


we have nobody on the roster that can guard Tatum and Brown. The closest guys in size are Demar and Rudy. Both of those guys can’t truly guard them and I don’t know if Luka or Bates Diop would be able to also.

The weight room would help Vassell in guarding Brown since Brown is not that tall. Tatum, not much so. Tatum's shots are intentionally difficult, making it hard to guard. Very few players (if any) in the history of the league can effectively guard a fadeaway. At the same time, Tatum's shots aren't very physical so you don't actually need someone that strong. I don't see why Luka or Bates wouldn't have been able to help. You at least need someone with length and quickness to bother his shot.

[SpurSpike]

This game is on everyone on the team EXCEPT DeRozan. The whole team was afraid to have the ball in the 4th and just gave it to DDR any chance they could while just standing around the parimeter. They weren't trying to help move the ball or their bodies to break down defenses. They weren't even trying to set screens for DDR either. It's not DDR's fault they were all being pussies tbh.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

luka and co should have been given some burn in the third when the celtics were hanging tough. at the very least save the starters energy

[R. DeMurre]

Those Boston announcers sure loved Poeltl. They talked about him glowingly all night.

[r0drig0lac]

he gotta hit the weight room also. Don’t get too big but he definitely needs a little more muscle.


we have nobody on the roster that can guard Tatum and Brown. The closest guys in size are Demar and Rudy. Both of those guys can’t truly guard them and I don’t know if Luka or Bates Diop would be able to also.

just like Pop

[John B]

F on Pop for not making adjustments at all, especially when everybody knows who’s going down to score? Why not put Luka or KBD, heck even try Dieng, but just try anything, but no. And what was that ally op pass with plenty of time? Demar was actually clutch in the last possessions, why don’t just give the ball to him, and maybe put his darling Patty to hit the 3 if double team?

There was a shot of Rudy seemingly explaining himself after that horrendous ally op. Why even put him in that position. The guy doesn’t even pass the whole game.

C on Poeltl is okay. I’m not hating on the guy, but I still see him getting lay’d up and not controlling the boards. My problem with him is when he’s getting a high grade when Spurs get out rebounded when it mattered. I like that he’s somewhat fixed his FT and looked so much better. There was even a possession when he posted his defender and shot a hook shot. That was great. He should do more of that, the more when he’s no longer fear of getting fouled.

DJ grade of C is fine. He did very well in the 1st half. But the 2nd half showed that DJ is not a PG, when he couldn’t get his team on offense after the opponent adjusted. Likewise the same happened in the blowout Miami game. That was the time Derrick was sorely missed.

Keldon continuing to hit his mid range after a couple of dribbles is promising. He realized that teams have adjusted on his drives and now working on mixing it up. I’m really excited what else he would add to his game this off season. But definitely he needs to be slide down to SF, and hopefully Luka gets the PF position and possibly help with guarding bigs and securing rebounds.

After watching this team played all season, I’m rather not surprised with last night’s loss. What else is new? But I was disappointed for the young guys when they played so well, and needed that win to reward a hard game. That was Pop and associates fault of not making the adjustments.

[Biggems]

if you as a team choke away a 32 point lead and lose, the entire group of players that touched the court, plus all the coaches get a resounding F-

[R. DeMurre]

This game is on everyone on the team EXCEPT DeRozan. The whole team was afraid to have the ball in the 4th and just gave it to DDR any chance they could while just standing around the parimeter. They weren't trying to help move the ball or their bodies to break down defenses. They weren't even trying to set screens for DDR either. It's not DDR's fault they were all being pussies tbh.

That's one way to look at it. Or you could say DDR's style of play discourages a total team approach. I think this is the fundamental split amongst fans of the Spurs right now. People who like DDR think he's a tier below his hero Kobe, and his 4th quarter isolation takeover style is justified. People who don't favor him think he's a tier above Lou Williams, and he shouldn't be allowed to dominate the game like he usually does in important moments.

[duncan2k5]

This game is on everyone on the team EXCEPT DeRozan. The whole team was afraid to have the ball in the 4th and just gave it to DDR any chance they could while just standing around the parimeter. They weren't trying to help move the ball or their bodies to break down defenses. They weren't even trying to set screens for DDR either. It's not DDR's fault they were all being pussies tbh.

They do this every game...it's not because they can't...but what's the alternative? DDR has NEVER been able to play off ball...and he is temperamental...so once he is on the court, the only way he will be effective on offense is to give him the ball...in the 4th quarter when things tighten up, teams will not guard him at the 3 off ball and instead collapse on every other player...so they really have no choice...that's y he has never been able to make players better or perform great in the playoffs

[Leetonidas]

They do this every game...it's not because they can't...but what's the alternative? DDR has NEVER been able to play off ball...and he is temperamental...so once he is on the court, the only way he will be effective on offense is to give him the ball...in the 4th quarter when things tighten up, teams will not guard him at the 3 off ball and instead collapse on every other player...so they really have no choice...that's y he has never been able to make players better or perform great in the playoffs

I'm pretty critical of DD but you can't blame the entire team shitting the bed and constantly passing him the ball instead of doing something with it on him only. Our guys were afraid to make a play. Your boy Murray choked hard after his hot 1st half. You gonna blame that on derozan too?

[Dex]

I don't want to go as far to say that Pop sabotaged this game (although continuing to play Mills despite multiple stupid shots and defensive miscues would suggest otherwise). But he certainly didn't seem actively interested in trying to right the ship once it started to tip.

Maybe he was trying to send a message to the team that decided to start getting cute in the third quarter. They went from playing nearly flawless offense in the first half to resorting to a bunch of iso heroball in the 2nd.

A lot of people want to blame that on DeMar, but anybody not named DeRozan seemed incapable of creating a good shot and everyone else was standing around. You gotta give DDR a bit of a pass when everyone around him is failing to break down the defense and then tossing the ball to him with 7 seconds left on the clock.

Best case scenario: Pop knows the Spurs are pretty much locked into the play-in and would rather grab that 10th seed, and wanted to make the point to his team that basketball is a 48-minute game. But even I'm not sure I believe that rose-colored optimism.

[TheChillFactor]

a couple of weeks ago Pop was an idiot for not playing Vassell. Now you see why he wasn't playing, he still has a ton to work on.

[SAGirl]

This game is on everyone on the team EXCEPT DeRozan. The whole team was afraid to have the ball in the 4th and just gave it to DDR any chance they could while just standing around the parimeter. They weren't trying to help move the ball or their bodies to break down defenses. They weren't even trying to set screens for DDR either. It's not DDR's fault they were all being pussies tbh.
Agree on this, hardly anyone was cutting or setting screens. Not having a shooter that is dangerous off a screen limits the effectiveness of screens in a close game, and that’s surely part of it, but if you don’t move off the ball there’s no chance to get loose for a pass.

[duncan2150]

That's one way to look at it. Or you could say DDR's style of play discourages a total team approach. I think this is the fundamental split amongst fans of the Spurs right now. People who like DDR think he's a tier below his hero Kobe, and his 4th quarter isolation takeover style is justified. People who don't favor him think he's a tier above Lou Williams, and he shouldn't be allowed to dominate the game like he usually does in important moments.


Man, that's a lie, all the team was scared. They had the ball with 8 sec on the clock and gave the ball to the DDR. Maybe this team will a play another type of basketball without DDR but they will win less games by a big margin.

Actually nobody could take his scoring, his passing and lead to team but it's better to be down on him...


They do this every game...it's not because they can't...but what's the alternative? DDR has NEVER been able to play off ball...and he is temperamental...so once he is on the court, the only way he will be effective on offense is to give him the ball...in the 4th quarter when things tighten up, teams will not guard him at the 3 off ball and instead collapse on every other player...so they really have no choice...that's y he has never been able to make players better or perform great in the playoffs

How you can say that ? we need to stop the blind hate on DDR, this team did not have the tools to play differentily and he is your best passer also. He's the one who is doing pretty everything on offense, i'm ok with the critics on D but without him how we'll play ?

This team did not have a better player than him by far but getting rid of him will make us better...ok.

[Spurs Homer]

a couple of weeks ago Pop was an idiot for not playing Vassell. Now you see why he wasn't playing, he still has a ton to work on.


bullshit

he was no worse than patty

and these games are WHY you play him all season - if vassell had played these minutes all season -

and luka also

then his rookie play/mistakes would be behind him by now

[NASpurs]

Man, that's a lie, all the team was scared. They had the ball with 8 sec on the clock and gave the ball to the DDR. Maybe this team will a play another type of basketball without DDR but they will win less games by a big margin.

Actually nobody could take his scoring, his passing and lead to team but it's better to be down on him...



How you can say that ? we need to stop the blind hate on DDR, this team did not have the tools to play differentily and he is your best passer also. He's the one who is doing pretty everything on offense, i'm ok with the critics on D but without him how we'll play ?

This team did not have a better player than him by far but getting rid of him will make us better...ok.

That's some hardcore Stockholm Syndrome you're suffering from there :lol

[duncan2150]

That's some hardcore Stockholm Syndrome you're suffering from there :lol


If you read the same thing that's cool but you better have some argument or something to talk about...

[PrimeMinister]

They do this every game...it's not because they can't...but what's the alternative? DDR has NEVER been able to play off ball...and he is temperamental...so once he is on the court, the only way he will be effective on offense is to give him the ball...in the 4th quarter when things tighten up, teams will not guard him at the 3 off ball and instead collapse on every other player...so they really have no choice...that's y he has never been able to make players better or perform great in the playoffs

im not sure how this isn’t more obvious to the general viewing audience at this point.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I don't want to go as far to say that Pop sabotaged this game (although continuing to play Mills despite multiple stupid shots and defensive miscues would suggest otherwise). But he certainly didn't seem actively interested in trying to right the ship once it started to tip.

Maybe he was trying to send a message to the team that decided to start getting cute in the third quarter. They went from playing nearly flawless offense in the first half to resorting to a bunch of iso heroball in the 2nd.

A lot of people want to blame that on DeMar, but anybody not named DeRozan seemed incapable of creating a good shot and everyone else was standing around. You gotta give DDR a bit of a pass when everyone around him is failing to break down the defense and then tossing the ball to him with 7 seconds left on the clock.

Best case scenario: Pop knows the Spurs are pretty much locked into the play-in and would rather grab that 10th seed, and wanted to make the point to his team that basketball is a 48-minute game. But even I'm not sure I believe that rose-colored optimism.

Against the Celtics and the first Miami game in San Antonio it looked like Pop didn’t even attempt to make changes to turn the momentum. Playing Mills the way he has truly looks like he’s not trying to win these games. Of course I thought it was crazy to have Forbes, Belli and Mills out there together last year when Pop had no reason to be losing games. He just seems to not GAF on most nights. Maybe it’s dementia and Mills is one of the few player names he can remember when he’s looking down the bench.

[Kurgan]

Derozan was inefficient/unclutch when it mattered along with playing zero D. Rudy and Patty exacerbated the collapse from the bench. A complete failure from the vets.

But Murray deserves his share of the blame. He disappeared in the 2nd half after playing like an all-star in the 1st half. Reminded me of White disappearing against the Nuggets in the playoffs after he exploded early in some of those games. Opposing teams make adjustments and our youngsters are unable to cope deferring to the vets.

The Celtics youngsters are on another tier from our youth. Outplayed our vets(Tatum scored twice as much as Dumbar) and never gave up, even when down 30. Meanwhile, our team is probably the worst in the league at holding onto leads.

[tbdog]

This was a bad loss. I don't understand why the Spurs didn't take the ball out of Tatum's hands ever .

[RC_Drunkford]

we got the Sniff VP grades as expected. Flopovich gets a C for losing a game where the team had a 32-point lead, while wasting 2 time outs on an out of bounds play that resulted into a turnover. I'm surprised he didn't get a B :lmao

[BackHome]

A melt down like this is going to suck the soul out of this team I think they are done for the year

[timvp]

Wait, Spurs fans actually think that the Rudy Gay pass was Pop's idea? That was an obvious decoy action -- so much so that Lonnie didn't even finish off the decoy run to the rim. Pop and Rudy arguing for the next five minutes should have made it obvious that the alleyoop wasn't plan A, B or C on that play:lol

[PhantomDashCam]

Wait, Spurs fans actually think that the Rudy Gay pass was Pop's idea? That was an obvious decoy action -- so much so that Lonnie didn't even finish off the decoy run to the rim. Pop and Rudy arguing for the next five minutes should have made it obvious that the alleyoop wasn't plan A, B or C on that play:lol

I’m not so sure, has to be on both the coach and player for this one.


https://youtu.be/7Jb9-MPRFJU

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

/derozan with 14 assists but he was too selfish iso

in the 2nd half, derozan was playing 1 on 5 on offense and poeltl was playing 1 on 5 on defense

[timvp]

I’m not so sure, has to be on both the coach and player for this one.


https://youtu.be/7Jb9-MPRFJU

I mean, look at Pop's reaction. He was so miffed at the pass that he was yelling at Rudy instead of telling the team to foul. :lol

That play has been run many time. Walker's cut to the rim is meant to draw in the weakside help defender. If that defender bites, Mills gets an open three. If not, Derozan is supposed to get the ball. No one has ever decided to throw it to the decoy cutter before Rudy last night.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

lmao that pop head-snap at rudy as soon as he tried the oop

[PhantomDashCam]

I mean, look at Pop's reaction. He was so miffed at the pass that he was yelling at Rudy instead of telling the team to foul. :lol

That play has been run many time. Walker's cut to the rim is meant to draw in the weakside help defender. If that defender bites, Mills gets an open three. If not, Derozan is supposed to get the ball. No one has ever decided to throw it to the decoy cutter before Rudy last night.

You can read that Pop reaction multiple ways. It could even be disbelief that Rudy would even attempt that pass with Lonnie being so heavily covered on the lob attempt.

When there is a communication break down, it’s usually on the sender and receiver.

IMHO, even if Pop’s instruction were extremely clear and the play was a misdirection as you’re suggesting, choosing Gay - an iso-centric, pass as a last resort type of player to handle your team’s final inbound play is just asking for trouble.

[duncan2k5]

Man, that's a lie, all the team was scared. They had the ball with 8 sec on the clock and gave the ball to the DDR. Maybe this team will a play another type of basketball without DDR but they will win less games by a big margin.

Actually nobody could take his scoring, his passing and lead to team but it's better to be down on him...



How you can say that ? we need to stop the blind hate on DDR, this team did not have the tools to play differentily and he is your best passer also. He's the one who is doing pretty everything on offense, i'm ok with the critics on D but without him how we'll play ?

This team did not have a better player than him by far but getting rid of him will make us better...ok.

U don't understand how basketball works...simply having the "best" player on a team doesn't make the team better with that player...there's several examples where teams got better after getting rid of their best player

[JeffDuncan]

...

That play has been run many time. Walker's cut to the rim is meant to draw in the weakside help defender. If that defender bites, Mills gets an open three. If not, Derozan is supposed to get the ball. No one has ever decided to throw it to the decoy cutter before Rudy last night.

Wait a second. Pop’s play was intended to draw away Patty’s defender, who would try to stop Walker going to the rim...

In a 2pt game. You say. The defender would guard against the 2, and leave an open 3. In a 2pt game. Pop thought.

Confirmed: Pop thinks everybody else is as stupid as he is. If what you wrote is correct. Not that I doubt you.

Pop messed up the whole thing twice. Recall, that infamous lob was the second attempt to inbound the ball on that possession. Pop’s first idea went haywire instantly. Time out.

Pop then spent a loooong time blathering and scribbling. As the players left the huddle, to try again, they all had a look like, “we’re screwed.”

Pop’s second attempt seemed mainly designed to gift the Celtics’ defense a lovely present on a silver platter. He gave them their easiest possible defensive assignments.

Pop spread the Spurs out so that the Celtics didn’t have to worry about screens and switching. They could all play simple man to man, straight up. Defenders love that, it’s so easy, relatively. I hope the Celtics remember Pop at Xmas and send him a good bottle of wine and a thank you note, for being so nice to them. Pop’s always nice to everybody, except his own team, and his own fans.

[RC_Drunkford]

Wait, Spurs fans actually think that the Rudy Gay pass was Pop's idea? That was an obvious decoy action -- so much so that Lonnie didn't even finish off the decoy run to the rim. Pop and Rudy arguing for the next five minutes should have made it obvious that the alleyoop wasn't plan A, B or C on that play:lol

that's why we call you SniffVP around here. Cause you actually believe what you said there :lmao

[Sugus]

https://i.imgur.com/xnsgv40.jpeg

Dejounte. Sorry for the low-quality pic, best I can do. Perfectly sums up everything we've been talking about regarding DJ and his "shooter" status... This was hardly the only possession Tatum guarded him like this; I was actually looking for the specific instance I recalled, closer to the 1m mark, but this was also applicable.

Any NBA capable 3pt shooter punishes the "lazy" defender by taking a dribble, then pulling up for an easy, relatively uncontested 3. Lonnie for example does this a lot. But you can guess how this possession went for DJ... Ignored the advantage, dribbled all the way into Tatum, was predictably bodied up, forced to pick up his dribble, and passed off (again) to DeRozan. Low IQ play by him, or rather, a very DeRozan-esque play by him. Talk about learning from the vets, lol... And if you look closely, he's defended like this a bunch by smart defenders, and very rarely punishes them by taking the 3, nevermind a side-step, stepback, or anyhting else. It'll forever impact his ability to stretch defenses and create his own shot without driving to the rim every single time.

And to everyone else, no, DJ was far from the one to be blamed for this loss. This is just a nitpick on his current game, or lack thereof, regarding 3pt shooting.

[timvp]

that's why we call you SniffVP around here. Cause you actually believe what you said there :lmao

Imagine having so many choices and deciding to hitch your wagon to the one thing that was legitimately not his fault :lol

[Spurtacular]

I mean, look at Pop's reaction. He was so miffed at the pass that he was yelling at Rudy instead of telling the team to foul. :lol

That play has been run many time. Walker's cut to the rim is meant to draw in the weakside help defender. If that defender bites, Mills gets an open three. If not, Derozan is supposed to get the ball. No one has ever decided to throw it to the decoy cutter before Rudy last night.

:lol

[Spurtacular]

https://i.imgur.com/xnsgv40.jpeg

Dejounte (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=51342). Sorry for the low-quality pic, best I can do. Perfectly sums up everything we've been talking about regarding DJ and his "shooter" status... This was hardly the only possession Tatum guarded him like this; I was actually looking for the specific instance I recalled, closer to the 1m mark, but this was also applicable.

Any NBA capable 3pt shooter punishes the "lazy" defender by taking a dribble, then pulling up for an easy, relatively uncontested 3. Lonnie for example does this a lot. But you can guess how this possession went for DJ... Ignored the advantage, dribbled all the way into Tatum, was predictably bodied up, forced to pick up his dribble, and passed off (again) to DeRozan. Low IQ play by him, or rather, a very DeRozan-esque play by him. Talk about learning from the vets, lol... And if you look closely, he's defended like this a bunch by smart defenders, and very rarely punishes them by taking the 3, nevermind a side-step, stepback, or anyhting else. It'll forever impact his ability to stretch defenses and create his own shot without driving to the rim every single time.

And to everyone else, no, DJ was far from the one to be blamed for this loss. This is just a nitpick on his current game, or lack thereof, regarding 3pt shooting.

Not every NBA player has good pull-up three ability. It's good if he's playing within himself.
But in today's game guards do have to be good catch and shoot three shooters. This is why I'm no big fan of DD. And Murray is spotty in that regard.

[tbdog]

Not every NBA player has good pull-up three ability. It's good if he's playing within himself.
But in today's game guards do have to be good catch and shoot three shooters. This is why I'm no big fan of DD. And Murray is spotty in that regard.

Actually creating a 3 off the dribble is a skill Spurs desperately need. Lots of teams have role players than can pull this off. Spurs don't. Our best player that has that skill is too to pull it off. This is the reason why DDR isn't top tear. He hasn't got this in his game.

[duncan2150]

U don't understand how basketball works...simply having the "best" player on a team doesn't make the team better with that player...there's several examples where teams got better after getting rid of their best player


Ok give me some examples of those teams ? and what material they had when their best player was traded or goes elsewhere.

[dbestpro]

Good and fair grades based off player and coaching capability.

[donaldsonian]

that's why we call you SniffVP around here. Cause you actually believe what you said there :lmao

This isn’t Blazing Saddles, cut the “we” talk as if anyone else cares about your pet names.

[R. DeMurre]

https://i.imgur.com/xnsgv40.jpeg

Dejounte (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=51342). Sorry for the low-quality pic, best I can do. Perfectly sums up everything we've been talking about regarding DJ and his "shooter" status... This was hardly the only possession Tatum guarded him like this; I was actually looking for the specific instance I recalled, closer to the 1m mark, but this was also applicable.

Any NBA capable 3pt shooter punishes the "lazy" defender by taking a dribble, then pulling up for an easy, relatively uncontested 3. Lonnie for example does this a lot. But you can guess how this possession went for DJ... Ignored the advantage, dribbled all the way into Tatum, was predictably bodied up, forced to pick up his dribble, and passed off (again) to DeRozan. Low IQ play by him, or rather, a very DeRozan-esque play by him. Talk about learning from the vets, lol... And if you look closely, he's defended like this a bunch by smart defenders, and very rarely punishes them by taking the 3, nevermind a side-step, stepback, or anyhting else. It'll forever impact his ability to stretch defenses and create his own shot without driving to the rim every single time.

And to everyone else, no, DJ was far from the one to be blamed for this loss. This is just a nitpick on his current game, or lack thereof, regarding 3pt shooting.


There was a nice JJ Redick podcast where he interviewed Duncan Robinson, and Robinson told a story about a play in practice early in his career where he pumped faked the defender to the side and then took a step inside the three point line and shot a 20' jumper. Spoelstra stopped practice and told Robinson, "don't step in, step to the side and shoot the three." It made me laugh-- a shot essentially forbidden by Spo was something the Spurs with LA and DDR used as a primary weapon.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

This isn’t Blazing Saddles, cut the “we” talk as if anyone else cares about your pet names.

God darnit, donaldsonian, you use your tongue prettier than a twenty dollar whore.

[RC_Drunkford]

This isn’t Blazing Saddles, cut the “we” talk as if anyone else cares about your pet names.

SniffVP alt account? :lmao

[TD 21]

The worst thing about this result is that it not only wasn't the least bit surprising, but the minute the inevitable run came and there was no response, it became expected.

There was also a preview of next season, when DeRozan is gone, with Murray. The moment they actually started paying attention to him defensively by first putting Tatum on him, then having Pritchard pick him up full, he vanished. He can only get his low shot quality ppg when treated as an afterthought, which is why, along with being unable to generate high shot quality for himself or others, he's still a sub par offensive player.



he gotta hit the weight room also. Don’t get too big but he definitely needs a little more muscle.


we have nobody on the roster that can guard Tatum and Brown. The closest guys in size are Demar and Rudy. Both of those guys can’t truly guard them and I don’t know if Luka or Bates Diop would be able to also.

Even so, he'll more than likely never have the requisite strength to guard skilled big wings like Tatum (who's not even one of the more overpowering ones).

Granted it's the scarcest position in the league, but they've now had going on 4 seasons since Scumbag quit on them to find someone who can at least adequately match up with these types without further destroying the spacing, yet they're still relying on physically overmatched guards. It's embarrassing and pathetic.

I'm not suggesting Johnson necessarily fares markedly if any better against Tatum and realize he doesn't have great lateral quicks or technique, but he's the only one enough size and strength to potentially offer some resistance and until they find someone more suited, it has to be his role.

[Sugus]

Not every NBA player has good pull-up three ability. It's good if he's playing within himself.
But in today's game guards do have to be good catch and shoot three shooters. This is why I'm no big fan of DD. And Murray is spotty in that regard.

I'm not saying at any point that every NBA player must have a complete package of 3pt moves or whatever. In fact, it'd be troublesome if every player could do it; it's already annoying enough that every player chucks regular 3s like they're Steph. What I am saying is that Dejounte right now is not a threat beyond the arc as a ball-handler, because he has no shooting game besides catch-and-shoot 3's, which he doesn't even create for himself. If the Spurs want to project and build around him as a main ball-handler, creator, and NBA PG, he'll simply always be limited as long as he doesn't develop said game.

That's why the image of Tatum guarding him is relevant; come playoff times, every single team is gonna dare him to pull up and shoot, and right now, he's not up to that challenge. Personally, I don't think he ever will, and I also think that ability (and confidence as a shooter) is something you're "born with", or rather, developed at a much younger age and then perfected, instead of growing out of thin air once you're already in the NBA. But it's just my view on him.


Actually creating a 3 off the dribble is a skill Spurs desperately need. Lots of teams have role players than can pull this off. Spurs don't. Our best player that has that skill is too to pull it off. This is the reason why DDR isn't top tear. He hasn't got this in his game.

Eeeexactly. Every single contender has one, if not multiple, star players who are able to create their own 3's in a variety of ways. I was arguing with Dejounte, who called this ability "strawberry on the cake", but in my eyes it's much more of a rule than an exception, if you look around the league. If neither of your starting guards can draw defenses out of the paint or stretch them, you're not gonna get far in the playoffs. I asked my guy, the same way I ask anyone, which NBA playoff defense is going over on a screen set for Dejounte? None, IMO, and as long as you want DJ as your starting PG, it's a problem, the same way it's been a problem for DeRozan his whole career, as you say.

[Dejounte]

Sugus , I'm going to get to your posts at some point. It's just too much right now. I keep reading the same thing over and over though, and I simply don't agree that it "gets you far in the playoffs". The pace bogs down in the playoffs, and pull up 3s don't get utilized as much as you think they do. And look at the teams that do get far, and the number of teams that run an offense like that is even with the number of teams that don't. So again, I really don't get the reason why you're running away with this like it's factual.

[Sugus]

There was a nice JJ Redick podcast where he interviewed Duncan Robinson, and Robinson told a story about a play in practice early in his career where he pumped faked the defender to the side and then took a step inside the three point line and shot a 20' jumper. Spoelstra stopped practice and told Robinson, "don't step in, step to the side and shoot the three." It made me laugh-- a shot essentially forbidden by Spo was something the Spurs with LA and DDR used as a primary weapon.

Yeah, that's another thing as well, and why I mentioned how it was a very "DeRozan-esque" play from Dejounte. Of course an old-head coach like Pop will instill those old-school habits on his young players, even if it's not explicit encouragement, by not discouraging it. In reality, Dejounte, when given free reign, often takes the worst possible shots, that any smart defense will gladly give him all day. Those 18ft pull-ups, while a valuable weapon in a diverse arsenal, cannot be your go-to moves, they're inefficient, unreliable, and simply not enough to get your team over the hump.

And then you couple the bad shot selection and inability to create 3pts for himself, with Dejounte's clear score-first mentality.... Not the best of recipes. Every game I watch of him furthers my view that we gotta sell high on him. I'm not confident that White is the "PG of the future" or close to it, but he can run the offense better, score better, and be the better stopgap while we look for that #1 player, while creating more opportunities for the rest of his teammates. Dejounte-ball is similar to DeRozan-ball in too many ways for my liking, tbh.

[Sugus]

Sugus , I'm going to get to your posts at some point. It's just too much right now. I keep reading the same thing over and over though, and I simply don't agree that it "gets you far in the playoffs". The pace bogs down in the playoffs, and pull up 3s don't get utilized as much as you think they do. And look at the teams that do get far, and the number of teams that run an offense like that is even with the number of teams that don't. So again, I really don't get the reason why you're running away with this like it's factual.

No hurries my guy :tu. But it's funny that you keep saying that the pace slows down in the playoffs, as if it helps a guy like Dejounte, tbh. He has little to no ISO scoring ability beyond his midrange crossover -> pullup, which is far from reliable and even then, inefficient; and no moves that can stretch a defense or put pressure on it. What's he gonna do when the game slows down, in your mind? Just drive to the rim, into a wall of defenders that will sit pretty in the paint waiting for him, just like Tatum? I'm really curious because you must be bringing it up for some reason, and I just keep imagining the same scenario, tbh. Tell me how Dejounte's game is fundamentally different from DeRozan's in that aspect, and I'll shut up (maybe :lol).

You also say "pull up 3s don't get utilized as much as you think they do". Of course they don't! Transition opportunities get scarcer in playoff series, especially with defenses keying in and studying each other. Less mistakes lead to less transition opportunities. That's exactly why, at every point we've talked about this, I've stressed that pull-up 3's are hardly the only relevant ability to have: step-backs (that Lonzo move we talked about), side-steps, and dribble ISOs leading to pull-ups like Harden loves to do, are all much better tools than simply hoping for transition opportunities to pull-up from (where the defense is already not-set, giving you an advantage). And again, Dejounte has none of these abilities, nor projects to have them.

If your argument is, he can develop them in time, I can meet you halfway with my skepticism but hopefulness... But saying the 3 ball and moves associated with it, are not used in the playoffs or not a main offensive weapon for the top teams in the league today, I can't agree with, tbh. I guess we'll see soon enough once the POs actually start.