PDA

View Full Version : If Kidd doesn't come is that really a time to celebrate?



Archie
07-07-2003, 11:29 PM
I don't think so. There's never a time Spurs fans should be happy to lose out on the opportunity to add a franchise player...especially as a free agent.

Whottt can barrage this thread with his talking much, not saying nothing posts all he wants. Yet the fact remains that the Spurs would be losing out pairing the league's best playmaker with the league's best post player for the next 6 years. This may come as a shock to some of you who are so dead set on Parker's future greatness, but NBA fans with no allegiance to the Spurs dread the addition of Kidd to this team. With good reason.

If the Spurs are unfortunate to lose out on Jermaine O'Neal (which I hope doesn't happen but is a distinct possibility), then some of your rants about Kidd are going to seem rather foolish. But that's ok, at least then you've gotten what you wanted.

Kidd is not as awful as some of you virtual GMs wish he was. Not by any stretch of the imagination. But such is the way of Spurs fans. Any young player who shows any promise is immediately labelled a superstar. And any other player in the league is immediately labelled crap. It's time to drop the provinicialism and come to terms with reality. This is the Spurs last best shot at adding a great player to their team for nothing during Tim Duncan's prime.

Most prognosticators think that the interest in Kidd is driven by the desire of Duncan to play with him. That should tell you something right there...if perhaps you are ready to listen.

DuffMcCartney
07-07-2003, 11:31 PM
Its not time to celebrate until Jermaine comes down here which is gonna be sometimes soon. Dont worry Archie, you won't get to rub any of this in our face. I guarantee it.

ChumpDumper
07-07-2003, 11:31 PM
:cry

I'd take what we could get.

Aggie Hoopsfan
07-07-2003, 11:37 PM
Most prognosticators think that the interest in Kidd is driven by the desire of Duncan to play with him.

Because Duncan has ever said anything bad about anyone. :rolleyes

Don't we need to see what happens with all this before we either celebrate or go slitting wrists and jumping off cliffs?

AHF

Jimcs50
07-07-2003, 11:37 PM
I will thank God every day if Kidd stays in NJ and does not condemn SA to hell for the next 10 yrs.

spurster
07-07-2003, 11:39 PM
If the Spurs are willing to bet on Parker and Manu, then yes that is a time to celebrate. We like them, and we hope they will be successful. We celebrate marriages, too, and there's nothing certain about them.

That doesn't mean I want to lose out on a second superstar, but I won't be crying if that happens. As bets go, Parker and Manu are good ones.

Archie
07-07-2003, 11:41 PM
Because Duncan has ever said anything bad about anyone.

Come on Aggie how the F does that have anything to do with who the Spurs pursue in free agency?

ChumpDumper
07-07-2003, 11:49 PM
Come on Aggie how the F does that have anything to do with who the Spurs pursue in free agency?

It has everything fo do with our not knowing what the hell he would want for the team, and by extension who the Spurs would pursue the hardest, etc.

All we're doing is just sitting here worrying over something beyond our control and getting very emotional about it when it doesn't seem to be going the way we would like.

Maybe it makes us feel better or whatever. Everyone has their reasons.

Archie
07-07-2003, 11:53 PM
No, the point is that whether Duncan wants to say something good or bad about another player is not what matters when the Spurs are deciding who to target in free agency.

ChumpDumper
07-07-2003, 11:55 PM
It just leaves us further out of the loop, making us more anxious. Then when we see or hear something we don't like, we start a thread.

Whottt
07-07-2003, 11:58 PM
Barrage? BS! It's just most of the pro Kidd's arguments are so amazingly shortsighted and wrong I have to type a phone book to correct them. And I always back my shit up. Blame yourself..Stop saying we need two superstars and then failing to back that point up.

spurster
07-07-2003, 11:58 PM
Though my practical (rational?) side tells that the Spurs should sign the best player they can get, my emotional side wants to see the same rotation as last year, but with a decent, not necessarily a star, bigman. I want to see Parker and Manu succeed, and I want to see almost the same team that won the title.

There is also some rationality here. Parker and Manu have substantial potential. Perhaps more importantly, basketball is a team game and that fact that this team has won the war this year and can stay almost intact the next year gives them an inherent advantage over other teams that are shuffling in Malone, Payton, Howard, whatever. Except for an injury to Manu, Argentina would have won the so-called World Championship because of their team play. Team play is a huge advantage that should never, ever be overlooked.

Back to practical, I think the Spurs should sign one of Brand, Jermaine, or Kidd, but really I hope they don't.

Aggie Hoopsfan
07-08-2003, 12:01 AM
Arch,

My point was that most of those that you mentioned who felt that Tim wanted Kidd so bad based it on say the all-star game interview, etc.

All I'm saying is he would never say anything other than professional comments in that situation.

AHF

Archie
07-08-2003, 12:01 AM
Whottt, you go off on rants that just...go off. "Barrage" is a fair descriptor of your posts.

ChumpDumper
07-08-2003, 12:02 AM
Salvo.

Walton Buys Off Me
07-08-2003, 12:06 AM
Only time will tell. My first choice has, and always will be Jermaine O'Neal. Signing O'Neal fills the void created by David Robinson's absence, while at the same time keeping our nucleus in tact.

However, Spurs fans need to lose their naive outlook on things and realize that our competition can and will be getting better. We are the defending champions, everyone will be gunning for us and if a player the caliber of a Jason Kidd wants to play for us, then we would be beyond stupid to dismiss him.

Jimcs50
07-08-2003, 12:11 AM
Walton, the price in signing Kidd is way too high. If we use up all of our available money on him, our team can not compete in the West with the frontline we have. KG is a great player, but he can not play the frontline by himself, just as Tim can't. We have the backcourt, we need the frontcourt. It is plain as the nose on your face. If Kidd wants a ring so bad, then let him sign for 5 million in SA so we ncan get O'Neal too.

Whottt
07-08-2003, 12:18 AM
Walton a big part of winning a championship is chemistry...and running Parker off definitely constitutes fucking with that chemistry.

Again to quote The Flo " that we can win a title with TP starting at PG is a fact"

That we can do it with Kidd is an opinion and the two players are very different players.

Kidd is more dependent on those around him than Parker is when it comes to taking over a game on offense.

Walton Buys Off Me
07-08-2003, 12:37 AM
Alright Whott, point taken.

However, should we not sign Kidd, then what? Let's be realistic here. O'Neal is gonna make more money in Indy, Brand looks like he's staying put with Sterling.....we don't have many options. Couple that with the Lakers possibly adding some serious help and then what? Malik Rose is your starting PF?!

Let's hear your plan.

RuffnReadyOzStyle
07-08-2003, 12:44 AM
I can't believe that anyone would label Kidd the way some are - he's a perennial all-star candidate who is going to kick some major arse if he comes here!!! We mostly want O'Neal because he replaces Dave and solves our big-man shortage (and we already have a good and developing PG), but should Kidd and Duncan be paired together we also instantly contend for another 5 years. Either way we have a kickarse team. Just be happy to be a Spurs fan, eh?:rollin

Truthsayer
07-08-2003, 12:46 AM
There are many, many options left. Some long term and others short term. By the end of this month we will probably have a good idea of what the 2003 Spurs will look like. But we may not see all of Pop/RC's machinations completed until training camp. Have faith in the Spurs brain trust. They haven't let us down since Pop and RC have been at the helm.

Rabel 13
07-08-2003, 01:14 AM
I said it last summer , I will say it this summer.


I dont want Jason Kidd on this team.


I would much rather prefer a big man or a combination of players.


That being said, Kidd is returning to Jersey.

o0drpill0o
07-08-2003, 02:04 AM
I would take Kidd. I won't celebrate if he doesn't come, no way, but I won't celebrate much if he does, either.

I would accept him as a Spur, and cheer for my team like I always do, and enjoy every game I get to watch (which is not nearly enough until playoff time, which until last year hasn't usually been enough either, but I digress), and I would welcome Kidd to the team knowing he is going to make us better. At least for a few years, at best indefinitely into the future. Dude's thirty, sure, but Duncan will be thirty soon and we all know Timmy will still have plenty of years left in him at that point. Nobody with a brain in their head can deny that Jason Kidd is a GREAT basketball player. He is a rare player who is capable of being a leader both on and off the court. A first team all-NBA Mario Elie, if you will. Tony Parker has hit thirty three times in his career. Kidd will do it in his first five or six games.

Kidd pushing that Nets team all the way to game six of the NBA Finals = Spurs lose maybe two games in all the playoffs this past year.

I agree, Tony Parker, given as many shots as Jason Kidd would have to take, could also score thirty a lot more often, and that is why this can even be a question in the first place rather than the most absurd debate ever hosted on a Spurs messageboard (and that is saying a lot). But giving Parker that kind of green light comes with a risk that Kidd won't bring, most nights (although those TOs got me nervous). We have all seen Tony Parker force shots that he should NOT be forcing, or decide not to run the offense for a few plays, or find some other way to make Popovich scream his fucking head off at him. Kidd won't do those things. He will take his shots in the flow of the game and pass the ball when it is appropriate. He will turn it over a lot, and that will be frustrating, but I am willing to bet the Spurs' rep for giving up big leads goes away in a real big hurry if Jason Kidd comes. Just a hunch. I'm not saying Parker is to blame for all of those pull your hair out choke sessions, rather that he is not experienced enough yet to know how to stop the bleeding (preferably before it starts). Kidd is. My hope of hopes is that Parker is telling the truth in BOTH of those news stories. That is, I hope he wishes Kidd wasn't coming so he could keep the reins of this team, but will accept Pop's decision to bring _ason on board. I really think Popovich's master plan is to make Parker Luke Skywalker to Kidd's Obi Wan Kenobi. No one can deny the force is strong in Le Kid, and there is no one better in the league to have as your point guard coach than the best point guard in the league.

Here's my theory: part of what is attracting Kidd to the Spurs in the first place is that fact that they already have a good young point guard in Tony Parker. Kidd is tired; he has been forced to put a lot of miles on his thirty year old body in order to keep his mediocre teams competitive. I recall one of his biggest complaints last season was that the Nets didn't have a legit backup to spell him properly and keep him from wearing down so much as the season went on. In Tony Parker he would have a backup who's more than legit, in fact almost as good as himself, albeit young and out of control at times. They could play together, for stretches, but a lot of the time it would be a Kidd-Manu or Tony-Manu backcourt as well. I think we could basically just split the 96 minutes between those three guys pretty evenly and that would be perfect. Kidd is the starter but Tony is 1a. And Kidd could show him the ways of the Force for the next three or four years, and then Tony would start to take over and make it his team. Kidd would start getting less and less minutes and he would be the backup. My theory is that Kidd knows about this plan, and he likes it. He doesn't want to play 40 minutes a game for the next seven years, and Pop doesn't expect him to. Now that's a hell of a pricetag for a backup PG, but it wasn't that long ago that the Spurs proved you can win a championship with an aging superstar on your payroll, and if five years from now at age 26 Tony is a Jedi knight and a future Hall of Famer would the cost not be justified?

Now that's the best case scenario. Worst case is Parker pulls a Darth Vader on us and decides to join the dark side in 2005. I could see that happening too. But people are acting like we have to choose between Parker and Kidd, and we totally don't. For at least two seasons, and many more if things go well, we will have them both. Not to mention Tim motherfuckin Duncan.

Jason Kidd is not washed up like some have convinced themselves. He will make this team better. Better than Payton and Malone and a hungrier Kobe and Shaq will make the Lakers? At least the NBA will still have some drama next year.

I will never really be able to get that incident where Kidd hit his wife out of my head though -- just seems incompatible with the idealistic "Spurs player mold" I have in my head, I suppose. I believe whoever says he is a nice guy off the court the rest of the time(if Duncan will vouch for him, that's good enough for me), and I don't judge him for what he's done cause it's none of my business, but IMO when Jason Kidd dons a Spurs jersey the David Robinson era will be officially over. I can't say the same for Jermaine O'Neal, and if the Spurs blow my mind by making him the Holting Pattern grand prize, it will truly be a time to celebrate.

Ghost Writer
07-08-2003, 11:16 AM
I would be hardpressed to choose between these two scenarios should we miss out on Brand/O'Neal:

• Kidd for 6 years at $13 million

or

• Olowokandi for 4 years at $7 million


If we get Kidd, I want to trade Parker for a young, blossoming big man on par with a Stromile Swift or even a Kwame Brown.

It is that imperative to me to add a big man.


:cooldevil

Archie
07-08-2003, 11:28 AM
How is it hard to choose between Kidd and Olowokandi?

Jimcs50
07-08-2003, 11:29 AM
If we get Kidd, I want to trade Parker for a young, blossoming big man on par with a Stromile Swift or even a Kwame Brown.

Now I know you are daft Ghost

Jimcs50
07-08-2003, 11:31 AM
How is it hard to choose between Kidd and Olowokandi?


Because we need a big man, not a little man...that is why. How hard is that to understand??????

Ghost Writer
07-08-2003, 11:50 AM
While I am pretty open-minded to settling on a former #1 like Olowokandi for 4 years at say, $7 million, I do not like the reports I am reading about offering Rasho Nesterovic more to be our center.

That would be awful.


:cooldevil

Jimcs50
07-08-2003, 01:03 PM
I would rather have Rasho over K Brown any day. Brown sucks, MJ has totally blown away any confidence he was clinging to.

Ghost Writer
07-08-2003, 01:51 PM
Jimmy, try thinking about how much Kwame will make next season as compared to Nesterovic, then get back to us.


:cooldevil

MI21
07-08-2003, 02:04 PM
I will not accept Rasho Nesterovic becoming a Spurs.

I suppose you could say its, Unacceptable.

Jimcs50
07-08-2003, 02:51 PM
Ghost, you are wanting to give Kidd 15 million, and you quibble over 5 million for a nice center???? You are crazy and naive.