NBA: Top 5 pure scorers of all time........... [Archive]

JamStone

05-17-2021, 02:18 PM

Bubba Chuck
Mike
KD
Steph
Kobe

Chuck is my #1 and no one can tell me different. I’m a pretty hardcore fanboy so I admit bias. That doesn’t mean I’m wrong. But I think Kobe said it pretty well and succinctly.

“We all should be fortunate Allen Iverson wasn’t 6’5.”

I seriously considered T-Mac because even tho he’s not the shooter KD is, I view him similarly as an impossible guy to stop once he gets it going because of the size, length, athletic, skill combination. If T-Mac really set his mind that he wanted to score, he was going to score. Bird and Nique probably in the conversation as well. As some have listed, Dirk and Harden also legit mentions. I think even Dame at this point has developed into that type of next level scorer as well.

I wish I could genuinely consider guys like Elgin or Bernard King or Rick Barry, but I didn’t watch any of them play. I assume no one on these boards did either. My parameter of reference starts somewhere in the early 80s.

spurraider21

05-17-2021, 03:00 PM

KD is the best I've seen

Spurtacular

05-17-2021, 05:36 PM

Not in any particular order:

Michael Jordan
Kobe Bryant
Allen Iverson
Kevin Durant
James Harden/Steph Curry

Ok, top 6 pure scorers of all time. I couldn't decide on #5.

:claw

:lol 42 FG shooter. Most over-rated player of all-time to this day.

Luka Doncic

05-17-2021, 06:39 PM

I love Iverson but a guy who is that inefficient at scoring can’t be called a pure scorer

Spurtacular

05-17-2021, 06:58 PM

Live: I watched Pierce and KG knocking down one elbow jumper after another in game and warmups.
Live: Starbury was money every time he got to his spot at the side of the top of the key.

Jimmer Fredette

05-17-2021, 06:59 PM

Me tbh.

JamStone

05-17-2021, 07:45 PM

I love Iverson but a guy who is that inefficient at scoring can’t be called a pure scorer

I challenge this notion with some context. Just take a look at smaller guards who played the bulk of their prime careers from the mid 90s to the mid 2000s, and you’ll see a pattern of lesser shooting FG efficiency. Mid 90s were right in the middle of a defensive evolution in the league that was kind of on the heels of the Bad Boy Pistons, Oakley and Mason Knicks, and the Davis brothers with the Pacers. Basically, if you were a small guard trying to score in the paint, actually any perimeter player really, your ass was planted in the key. Fast forward to the mid 2000s where teams like the Spurs and Pistons were routinely holding teams in the 70s and 80s. Overall league scoring was down, and at least the perception of aesthetically pleasing basketball was failing. And that’s why the league made a concerted effort to not only institute rules to help scoring and hurt defense, but initiated the interpretation of those rules by the refs to reflect that need for more scoring.

So just a quick few names I checked, career FG%:

Jason Kidd 40.0% FG
Nick Van Exel 40.5% FG
Kenny Anderson 42.1% FG
Steve Francis 42.9% FG
Starbury 43.3% FG

Now we can just say that all those guys were inefficient, and there’s some truth to that. But they’re also some of the bigger star names of smaller guards who could score in the mid to late 90s to the mid 2000s. Kidd not so much a small guard, but I included him anyway. Point is the way the game was played, the style of defense and what was allowed I think impacted the scoring efficiency of smaller guards during that time period.

Pure scoring ability to me is not about efficiency, at least not “just” about efficiency. Otherwise everyone who posted in this thread would have guys like Shaq and Wilt and Boban listed.

I’ll take up for Iverson. He was one of the most utterly amazing basketball players to watch for me. And at his size, to be as explosive a scorer as he was for as long as was defies reason. I’ll say it this way. You might make Iverson inefficient. But you weren’t going to just completely stop him. It might be a Kobe-esque type of shooting night, but he’d still drop 25-30 on you. He’d still find a way to get buckets.

Larry Joe Bird

05-17-2021, 07:52 PM

Yo.

lebomb

05-18-2021, 10:00 AM

:lol 42 FG shooter. Most over-rated player of all-time to this day.

Iverson was only 6'-1" tall if that. He scored from everywhere including down the middle of the lane in the trees. He single handedly carried Philly to the Championship against LA. He had NO help on offense. Also, not only was he a pure scorer but he was durable as hell. Not like these candy asses in Todays NBA. :fight

lefty

05-18-2021, 10:11 AM

Today’s NBA is too physical and athletic for Iverson. He wouldn’t last a year

lefty

05-18-2021, 10:19 AM

I challenge this notion with some context. Just take a look at smaller guards who played the bulk of their prime careers from the mid 90s to the mid 2000s, and you’ll see a pattern of lesser shooting FG efficiency. Mid 90s were right in the middle of a defensive evolution in the league that was kind of on the heels of the Bad Boy Pistons, Oakley and Mason Knicks, and the Davis brothers with the Pacers. Basically, if you were a small guard trying to score in the paint, actually any perimeter player really, your ass was planted in the key. Fast forward to the mid 2000s where teams like the Spurs and Pistons were routinely holding teams in the 70s and 80s. Overall league scoring was down, and at least the perception of aesthetically pleasing basketball was failing. And that’s why the league made a concerted effort to not only institute rules to help scoring and hurt defense, but initiated the interpretation of those rules by the refs to reflect that need for more scoring.

So just a quick few names I checked, career FG%:

Jason Kidd 40.0% FG
Nick Van Exel 40.5% FG
Kenny Anderson 42.1% FG
Steve Francis 42.9% FG
Starbury 43.3% FG

Now we can just say that all those guys were inefficient, and there’s some truth to that. But they’re also some of the bigger star names of smaller guards who could score in the mid to late 90s to the mid 2000s. Kidd not so much a small guard, but I included him anyway. Point is the way the game was played, the style of defense and what was allowed I think impacted the scoring efficiency of smaller guards during that time period.

Pure scoring ability to me is not about efficiency, at least not “just” about efficiency. Otherwise everyone who posted in this thread would have guys like Shaq and Wilt and Boban listed.

I’ll take up for Iverson. He was one of the most utterly amazing basketball players to watch for me. And at his size, to be as explosive a scorer as he was for as long as was defies reason. I’ll say it this way. You might make Iverson inefficient. But you weren’t going to just completely stop him. It might be a Kobe-esque type of shooting night, but he’d still drop 25-30 on you. He’d still find a way to get buckets.

:lol 90s defense is so overrated and so full of myths holy shit

Neo.

05-18-2021, 10:27 AM

iverson was a lot of fun to watch and could hit some incredible shots. but i cant put him on the list above kyrie because basically every scoring skill he was great at, kyrie is equal or better at, especially shooting.

tmac definitely could also be considered for this, there was no scoring skillset he couldnt do incredibly well. im pretty set on mike, kobe, kd and kyrie. that 5th spot is hard with melo, tmac, bird, harden, dirk, king, dantley, steph, etc...

SpursforSix

05-18-2021, 10:29 AM

shit...what about Lillard.

Neo.

05-18-2021, 02:49 PM

shit...what about Lillard.

doesnt shoot as good, finish as good, or handle as good as steph so i think hes out of the discussion

Spurtacular

05-18-2021, 05:15 PM

Iverson was only 6'-1" tall if that. He scored from everywhere including down the middle of the lane in the trees. He single handedly carried Philly to the Championship against LA. He had NO help on offense. Also, not only was he a pure scorer but he was durable as hell. Not like these candy asses in Todays NBA. :fight

Single-handedly if you're not counting referee rigging. The Bucks don't lose otherwise. Sternstein didn't want that Big Three fucking up the Shaq-Kobe ring.

But hey, Iverson did single-handedly win a game against the Lakers in the Finals. Goody.

Spurtacular

05-18-2021, 05:17 PM

Also, Kobe was a chucker. You can say he looked great in a given game when shots were going down.
But ffs, the topic is pure scorer. Dude is all-time bricker. OP is sh**.

Luka Doncic

05-18-2021, 05:30 PM

Single-handedly if you're not counting referee rigging. The Bucks don't lose otherwise. Sternstein didn't want that Big Three fucking up the Shaq-Kobe ring.

But hey, Iverson did single-handedly win a game against the Lakers in the Finals. Goody.
“Stern” is already a Jewish surname, there was no need to add a “stein” at the end, Derp.

Neo.

05-18-2021, 05:30 PM

Also, Kobe was a chucker. You can say he looked great in a given game when shots were going down.
But ffs, the topic is pure scorer. Dude is all-time bricker. OP is sh**.

mike is an all time bricker too, #8 all time, and actually averaged more misses per game than kobe. therefore by your logic mike should not be considered because he is an all time bricker

lefty

05-18-2021, 07:09 PM

Single-handedly if you're not counting referee rigging. The Bucks don't lose otherwise. Sternstein didn't want that Big Three fucking up the Shaq-Kobe ring.

But hey, Iverson did single-handedly win a game against the Lakers in the Finals. Goody.
The Bucks got skullfucked by Netyanahu and his company men during those ECF tbh

Spurtacular

05-18-2021, 07:16 PM

“Stern” is already a Jewish surname, there was no need to add a “stein” at the end, Derp.

Added for emphasis, dick wad.

Don't come at me with stupid shit, slob.

Luka Doncic

05-18-2021, 07:24 PM

Added for emphasis, dick wad.

Don't come at me with stupid shit, slob.
So you think there were people on an NBA forum confused about David Stern’s ethnicity and needed you to emphasize just how Jewish he really was?

David Stern already looked exactly like a Stormfront cartoon caricature of a Jew, Derp.

Spurtacular

05-18-2021, 08:23 PM

So you think there were people on an NBA forum confused about David Stern’s ethnicity and needed you to emphasize just how Jewish he really was?

David Stern already looked exactly like a Stormfront cartoon caricature of a Jew, Derp.

Go look up the word emphasis and then don't get back to me, Derp.

Spurtacular

05-18-2021, 08:23 PM

DMC

05-18-2021, 08:37 PM

1. Jimmer Fredette
2. Fathead
3. Euroleague MVP Tiago Splitter
4. Jeff Errors
5. Sean Elliott

lebomb

05-18-2021, 08:50 PM

Today’s NBA is too physical and athletic for Iverson. He wouldn’t last a year

Physical??? Lmmfao

Luka Doncic

05-18-2021, 09:14 PM

Go look up the word emphasis and then don't get back to me, Derp.
You needed to emphasize that one of the Jewiest people on earth was, in fact, Jewish? They don’t call you Derp for nothin :lol

Luka Doncic

05-18-2021, 09:17 PM

“It may not be completely obvious that the star of Curb Your Enthusiasm is a Jew, better call him Larry Davidsteinberg for emphasis!”

R. DeMurre

05-18-2021, 09:18 PM

:lol No Kareem? The leader scorer in NBA history, with a career FG% of 56%? C'mon, now.

lefty

05-18-2021, 09:21 PM

Physical??? Lmmfao
Clearly you’ve never played basketball:lol

lebomb

05-19-2021, 11:17 AM

Clearly you’ve never played basketball:lol

I would bet money I've played more than you.

SpursforSix

05-19-2021, 11:27 AM

doesnt shoot as good, finish as good, or handle as good as steph so i think hes out of the discussion

There's lots of scorers that don't meet those marks. Lillard has a higher PPG than Steph. I don't think it's crazy to mention him.

i'm_still_beta

05-19-2021, 11:40 AM

Today’s NBA is too physical and athletic for Iverson. He wouldn’t last a year
Iverson can easily survive any NBA era. He was supposed to be football player after all

FrostKing

05-19-2021, 12:14 PM

Rename thread: Ball Hogs

https://media.tenor.com/images/12b3ddf25ec2c58830d84984caa9cbb1/tenor.gif

lefty

05-19-2021, 12:21 PM

I would bet money I've played more than you.

NBA 2K doesn’t count

140

05-19-2021, 12:45 PM

NBA 2K doesn’t count

And yet thats all the vast majority of todays NBA fans do tbh. That and jerking off to spreadsheets on bballref :lol

lefty

05-19-2021, 01:37 PM

And yet thats all the vast majority of todays NBA fans do tbh. That and jerking off to spreadsheets on bballref :lol
90s fans were playing Bulls vs Blazers then NBA Live, no difference tbh :lol

Neo.

05-19-2021, 02:25 PM

There's lots of scorers that don't meet those marks.

um yes. that is why steph is a better scorer than the vast majority of scorers to ever play

Lillard has a higher PPG than Steph. I don't think it's crazy to mention him.

lol if you are talking about career ppg, dame averages 0.5 more ppg for his career, largely because steph was battling monta ellis for shots his first few years, while dame came in and was immediately the top scoring guard on the team

so when you are talking about a guy being a top 5 pure scorer of all time who is clearly inferior at basically every aspect of scoring to another guy who still might not even be a top 5 pure scorer of all time, and are simply basing it on averaging 0.5 more ppg career stat, then yes thats a little crazy tbqhimhofwiwiirc

Arcadian

05-19-2021, 02:31 PM

:lol No Kareem? The leader scorer in NBA history, with a career FG% of 56%? C'mon, now.
I agree, he should be on any list of "best scorers" in history. The term "pure scorer" implies that it's people who only score and can't do anything else at an elite level, which would actually be a downgrade for guys like Kareem. He's not just a scorer, but he's still one of the best scorers of all time.

lefty

05-19-2021, 02:39 PM

Rename thread: Ball Hogs

https://media.tenor.com/images/12b3ddf25ec2c58830d84984caa9cbb1/tenor.gif

Dirks_Finale

05-19-2021, 03:40 PM

Physical??? Lmmfao

:lol

Dirks_Finale

05-19-2021, 03:47 PM

Also, Kobe was a chucker. You can say he looked great in a given game when shots were going down.
But ffs, the topic is pure scorer. Dude is all-time bricker. OP is sh**.

This.

I know Kobe has a ton of points, but I can not dismiss his sh1t shot selection just because he died a horrific death.

I don't really have a top 5 but Bird, Steph, KD, Bernard King all come to mind. You don't need to be 50-40-90 to be considered, but having decent shot selection helps your cause. Kobe will always be a chucker with a lot of heart, imo.

Neo.

05-19-2021, 03:50 PM

I agree, he should be on any list of "best scorers" in history. The term "pure scorer" implies that it's people who only score and can't do anything else at an elite level, which would actually be a downgrade for guys like Kareem. He's not just a scorer, but he's still one of the best scorers of all time.

no pure scorer is not a matter of players who can only score and nothing else, otherwise mike wouldnt be in the discussion

its a matter of skillset, someone who can score a variety of ways, against a variety of defenses

kareem probably should get more love, but to say he had a more versatile scoring skillset compared to guys like mike, kd or kyrie is simply untrue.

140

05-19-2021, 04:59 PM

90s fans were playing Bulls vs Blazers then NBA Live, no difference tbh :lol

sure :lol

Rummpd

05-19-2021, 05:18 PM

Kobe
KD
Harden
Wilkins
Dirk

Honorable mentions : English, Steph, Gervin

Kobe not even top ten as inefficient and not clutch advanced stats but surprised you did list James

Spurtacular

05-19-2021, 06:25 PM

White dude from the 50s/60s. Not eligible for all-time, amirite?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFTY-6sk3iA

Neo.

05-19-2021, 06:57 PM

White dude from the 50s/60s. Not eligible for all-time, amirite?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFTY-6sk3iA

:lmao anytime I want a good laugh, I can always count on watching ridiculously crappy old school basketball defense

Dirks_Finale

05-19-2021, 07:05 PM

White dude from the 50s/60s. Not eligible for all-time, amirite?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFTY-6sk3iA

Consider his competition, though :lol

I mean it honestly looks how lefty inaccurately describes the 90's. Plumbers and milkmen attempting to play something that slightly resembles defense.

DMC

05-19-2021, 08:43 PM

no pure scorer is not a matter of players who can only score and nothing else, otherwise mike wouldnt be in the discussion

its a matter of skillset, someone who can score a variety of ways, against a variety of defenses

kareem probably should get more love, but to say he had a more versatile scoring skillset compared to guys like mike, kd or kyrie is simply untrue.

This. It's a person who can get that score you absolutely need, and that same person can pour in 60pts against a good team in a RS game or in the playoffs. You see them now and then, but there's not a lot of them.

lefty

05-19-2021, 09:17 PM

Consider his competition, though :lol

I mean it honestly looks how lefty (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=6896) inaccurately describes the 90's. Plumbers and milkmen attempting to play something that slightly resembles defense.
Inaccurately?
:lol the 90s , ahem, “defense”, was comical

Dirks_Finale

05-19-2021, 09:35 PM

Inaccurately?
:lol the 90s , ahem, “defense”, was comical

you could actually get physical then. Rule changes and overall wussifaction of today's society and the NBA will not stand for that stuff now.

lefty

05-19-2021, 09:40 PM

you could actually get physical then. Rule changes and overall wussifaction of today's society and the NBA will not stand for that stuff now.

So many myths in thay post wow :lol

Arcadian

05-19-2021, 09:47 PM

no pure scorer is not a matter of players who can only score and nothing else, otherwise mike wouldnt be in the discussion

its a matter of skillset, someone who can score a variety of ways, against a variety of defenses

kareem probably should get more love, but to say he had a more versatile scoring skillset compared to guys like mike, kd or kyrie is simply untrue.

Ok, but that's my point - the term "pure scorer" is ambiguous, so my definition was completely different from your definition.

If we simply said "best scorers" Kareem would be a no-brainer.

Neo.

05-20-2021, 12:53 AM

Ok, but that's my point - the term "pure scorer" is ambiguous, so my definition was completely different from your definition.

If we simply said "best scorers" Kareem would be a no-brainer.

well you were about the only one who didn't seem to understand. you and derp, that is. yep, great company to be in :tu

lebomb

05-20-2021, 08:58 AM

you could actually get physical then. Rule changes and overall wussifaction of today's society and the NBA will not stand for that stuff now.

Exactly, lefty is in the tiny ass minority of folks who believe his bullshit on Today NBA.

Also lefty, I played 4yrs of HS Bball, 2 yrs in college, multiple 30 and over leagues and many church leagues. Yeah, no Pro ball. BUT! I damn sure understand the game.

:claw

Arcadian

05-20-2021, 02:13 PM

well you were about the only one who didn't seem to understand. you and derp, that is. yep, great company to be in :tu
Nah. You could take a quick survey around the internet to prove my point. Just ask a bunch of random basketball fans how they define "pure scorer" and see how many different answers you get.

You included versatility in your definition, but why does that even matter? If somebody is unstoppable at scoring, it doesn't matter how they do it.

FrostKing

05-20-2021, 02:26 PM

Ron Jeremy

Neo.

05-20-2021, 03:28 PM

Nah. You could take a quick survey around the internet to prove my point. Just ask a bunch of random basketball fans how they define "pure scorer" and see how many different answers you get.

i dont disagree with that, but look at the context of the thread, the very guy who started the thread listed a bunch of players who do a lot more than only score points. so i think it was pretty much implied as to what definition he was going for.

You included versatility in your definition, but why does that even matter? If somebody is unstoppable at scoring, it doesn't matter how they do it.

so you consider shaq to be a skilled scorer (which was the basis of the discussion at hand), even though he had basically 2 moves (push defender deep then go up, or spin move using the elbow as a shield and go up) simply because he was unstoppable? you would consider him equally or more skilled of a scorer to highly skilled and versatile guys like timmy, hakeem, AD, and others that he averaged more ppg than?

Mark Celibate

05-20-2021, 03:59 PM

I agree, he should be on any list of "best scorers" in history. The term "pure scorer" implies that it's people who only score and can't do anything else at an elite level, which would actually be a downgrade for guys like Kareem. He's not just a scorer, but he's still one of the best scorers of all time.

This has always been my interpretation of it as well. It's always been vague what "pure scorer" means, but when I hear analysts talk about guys like Jamal Crawford and Lou Williams as some of the best "pure scorers" in the league, I assumed your definition as well. Because it seems obvious that guys like Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, etc are elite scorers but they help their team in other ways and are never termed "pure scorers"