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Ghost Writer
07-07-2003, 02:20 PM
Enough of this Kidd crap. Kidd isn't even that much better than The Glove. He's just younger and has looked great in the weak East longer.

If I am RC Buford, I offer Payton more money than the Lakers do. And I do it immediately as a precautionary measure.

Karl Malone said he'd sign for the veteran's minimum if the Lakers got Gary. That is bad news.

The Spurs have to try to block this from happening.

Where there's smoke, there's fire.


:cooldevil

Archie
07-07-2003, 02:25 PM
Of course, perhaps Payton is using the Lakers to get more money from elsewhere in the league (not just SA) and the Lakers are hoping the Spurs blow their cap early on Payton instead of continuing to pursue JO'Neal, Brand, and Kidd.

adidas11
07-07-2003, 02:25 PM
Unfortunately Ghost, this just won't happen.

Since the Spurs have already brought in Kidd for the customary "tour"

Ghost Writer
07-07-2003, 02:28 PM
Well, the Spurs are f'ed in that scenario either way, huh?


Super.


:cooldevil

Archie
07-07-2003, 02:30 PM
Not necessarily. They shouldn't drop Plan A and B for Plan D just like that. Especially for something as fanciful as Payton giving up $5 mil a year or whatever.

NCaliSpurs
07-07-2003, 02:31 PM
I still don't believe this Payton AND Malone to LA unless I see it.

ducks
07-07-2003, 02:34 PM
what is to say rc makes a call to gp's agent and says the talks to kidd are not going great

and gp puts off the announcement

also do you think gp makes a move before oneal and kidd make up their minds

Archie
07-07-2003, 02:36 PM
If the Spurs offered money to GP right now that pretty much sabotages their run at JO'Neal and Kidd.

Whottt
07-07-2003, 02:41 PM
Ghost is right..Payton's a better deal, a better fit, a scorer, cheaper, a half court player, shorter term, Parker actually admired Payton growing up, Payton can average over 8 assists per game without have 10 games of more than 7 TO's... and most importantly signing him keeps LA from signing the whole key to their offseason.

Malone going to LA is conditional upon Payton going there.

Edit:Malone is insignifigant..signing Payton alone puts LA back on top as the team to beat.

Ok enough rational thought from me. I going back into pro Kidd thought mode now.

Spurminator
07-07-2003, 02:50 PM
Payton would be a better option than Kidd. I can only hope the Spurs have done some behind the scenes negotiating that we are not aware of.

Ghost Writer
07-07-2003, 02:52 PM
I'd rather Payton than Kidd anyway. He would be an infinitely better value than Kidd.

We're most likely not getting Brand or O'Neal anyway.

At least call Payton to gum up the works for LA a bit.

The fact that Popovcih is practically giving Kidd fallacio, yet we don't even give Payton a whiff is absurd, especially considering The Glove may be going to the Lakers.

:cooldevil

Mark in Austin
07-07-2003, 02:53 PM
Payton's not signing in LA until he knows he can't get more from the Spurs, Miami, etc.

I don't care what his agent says - he'll look around to make sure he can't get more $ before signing in LA.

kohai
07-07-2003, 02:54 PM
EXACTLY, MiA.:fro

Archie
07-07-2003, 03:02 PM
Of course the Spurs should sign Payton instead of Kidd because that would ensure they have a second star for Duncan during only half of his prime. You geniuses never fail to make me laugh.

Ghost Writer
07-07-2003, 03:06 PM
When Payton's contract is up, the Spurs can always reload. And we'd have enough cap room left to entice a decent starting center and re-sign our own nucleus. Yeah, I'd much rather have Kidd around in his twilght years than that. :rolleyes












:cooldevil

ChumpDumper
07-07-2003, 03:07 PM
Great. The "chicken sans head" school of team management.

Ghost Writer
07-07-2003, 03:11 PM
Chump, are you still hanging on my every word?


I guess you think it's cool that the front office has a hard-on for Kidd, yet is ignoring the Payton-to-LA innuendo.

Payton would be a better fit with our current team and the cheaper proposition, but let's just go b@lls to the wall here for no reason whatsoever.

:cooldevil

Archie
07-07-2003, 03:16 PM
When Payton's contract would be up in 3 years the Spurs would be capped out regardless. No chance to reload.

And of course TP could leave the Spurs in 3 seasons even if the Spurs don't bring in Kidd.

ChumpDumper
07-07-2003, 03:17 PM
Seem like you're hanging on my every word with your excited replies.

So we should make an offer to Payton while Kidd is in town.

Fantastic idea--kidd can keep up with the negotiations that don't incude him on local TV.

You'd want to throw away our cap space before we even talk to O'Neal.

You're insane.

IcemanCometh
07-07-2003, 03:17 PM
Payton has no interest in San Antonio

Ghost Writer
07-07-2003, 03:22 PM
I don't want Kidd, Chump.

It's stupid to let a player of Payton's caliber walk to LA for chump change, especially when Malone is rumored not to be far behind.


I don't know why Kidd is so high on the priority list when the cheaper Payton is available.



:cooldevil

Archie
07-07-2003, 03:25 PM
Because, numbnuts, Payton's only good for 3 more seasons at most while Kidd will be good for 6.

ChumpDumper
07-07-2003, 03:30 PM
I don't want Kidd

No shit.

You don't want O'Neal either apparently.

You don't seem to want anyone who is actually interested in being a Spur and is visiting/scheduled to visit.

If Payton was interested, his agent would've mentioned them. Don't you know how these things work?

Ghost Writer
07-07-2003, 03:30 PM
After 3 years, the Spurs could look elsewhere, as I've said before, j@ck@ss. In the meantime, there'd be enough money to get a star like Payton, keep him from LA and add a serviceable center, too.

:cooldevil

Archie
07-07-2003, 03:43 PM
Look elsewhere with what cap room?

Ghost Writer
07-07-2003, 03:48 PM
Kidd guarantees no cap room then. Payton off the books at least alleviates the cap situation.


:cooldevil

Archie
07-07-2003, 03:49 PM
NO IT DOESN'T WHEN THE REMAINING CONTRACTS PUT THEM OVER THE CAP.

ChumpDumper
07-07-2003, 03:51 PM
Kidd guarantees no cap room then.

There won't be any cap room in any case.

Spurs go over from here on out.

Then you can start thinking about how to trade for Payton again....

Ghost Writer
07-07-2003, 03:51 PM
You assume whatver money is left over will go to the players in-house.

The remaining contracts would put them over the cap with Kidd, too. The difference being at the end of 6 years, the Spurs would still be paying Kidd $12 million.

:cooldevil

Archie
07-07-2003, 03:56 PM
Yes, the Spurs will be capped out in 2006-07 even if they have a Payton coming off the books.

So now you are worried about 2009?

ChumpDumper
07-07-2003, 03:58 PM
The difference being at the end of 6 years, the Spurs would still be paying Kidd $12 million.

Man that would be great having a first ballot hall of fame PG here for 6 years!

Look Casper, Kidd isn't my first choice, but he is an actual choice.

Payton isn't.

Ghost Writer
07-07-2003, 03:58 PM
You assume our current players will get every red cent of the cap even with Payton going elsewhere. How come that didn't happen this season with Robinson and Smith going bye-bye?




:cooldevil

Archie
07-07-2003, 04:03 PM
So they're going to let Jackson, Parker, and Ginobili walk away for nothing in return?





qUeSTioN.

Aggie Hoopsfan
07-07-2003, 04:03 PM
Archie,

Whose to say Kidd will be great in those last 3 years?

Payton makes perfect sense. Say he comes for three, by the end of his "run", Parker would be a beast and ready to lead this team for the rest of Duncan's prime (he's already close to it, and only 3 APG behind the "great" Kidd's output).

Let's look at this from an outcome based result:

Spurs sign Kidd:

- Spurs tied up in long-term contract with aging PG with diminishing defensive skills
- Clusterfuck in backcourt
- Parker rift likely to emerge, possibly force trade
- Growth of SJax, Manu stunted
- Spurs complete lack of front line players (both in quality as well as quantity - who starts at center?)
- Kidd <<<<<< Payton and Malone to LA

Spurs sign Payton:

- Better addresses need (Spurs get scorer, and GP can also mentor Parker)
- Keeps key cog from #1 threat to the throne
- Possibility Malone comes to SA instead for the vet min.
- Gives Spurs cap room to add solid big man (PJ Brown, Zo, Brad Miller)
- Avoids backcourt clusterfuck, alienation of Tony Parker, stunted growth of Manu, SJax

These are just off the top of my head, but it appears in going after Kidd we're headed down the road of "we're fucked" instead of "we're set."

LA is upping the ante significantly right now, and a 30 year old PG for the max when we don't need him is kind of the equivalent of throwing in everything you got into the pot when you're sitting with a pair of aces while your opponent (LA) is sitting pretty with four of a kind.

AHF

IcemanCometh
07-07-2003, 04:03 PM
Where in I am looking at LA Portland and Miami do you see San Antonio? Payton isn't even interested in player here, to make him interested we would have to pay him the exact same amount we would have to pay Kidd.

ducks
07-07-2003, 04:04 PM
gp still wants to get paid he wants to work out a sign and trade if he goes to lakers

Archie
07-07-2003, 04:07 PM
With Payton you still lose your second star after 3 years. There are no guarantees that Parker remains in SA after that time either.

So now having the 33 year old Kidd for 3 more seasons is awful but having the 35 yr old Payton for 3 seasons is something to be desired?

Also, Malone could come to SA for that same amount or perhaps Mourning comes for what the Spurs have left over after signing Kidd.

bigzak25
07-07-2003, 04:08 PM
When you have TD, you need 3's and another lowpost Defender to keep TD out of trouble.

The FO has to get this done. If they don't, then they have failed. If they sign JK, and Mourning tags along, okay, I can see that. The spurs still need a clutch shooter, piatkowski or peeler. Willis and Kerr will sign for the minimum...great.
Speedy walks, and frankly, i'd let Jax hit the street too if they could get one of the above mentioned shooters.

Then we're set for 2003-2004 and we'll just have to worry about the rest later I guess.

I can only hope that we can ship JK's ass off to Golden State next year for some players that will actually help the team.

And Everytime I see Don Harris saying "Kidd AND Tony, I've been sayin it for a year"....I wanna punch him in the face.

IcemanCometh
07-07-2003, 04:09 PM
how exactly does signing payton avoid the problems we would have with signing kidd? he could play sg, just not defend ANY sg in the league. You still have the stunted growth of manu and jackson. you still have payton dominating the ball instead of parker.

Aggie Hoopsfan
07-07-2003, 04:11 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

rack that, great post bigzak.

One minor change: we should keep SJax, and I think we will.

AHF

TwoHandJam
07-07-2003, 04:17 PM
Good take Zak. I haven't seen you around before.

Archie
07-07-2003, 04:18 PM
Letting Jack walk for Peeler? Remind me what is great about that idea.

Ghost Writer
07-07-2003, 04:19 PM
Um, Ice, because Payton can guard SGs as effectively if not better than Kidd. Oh, and he can shoot better than Kidd. And I almost forgot... he played half of last season as a SG with Seattle and then Milwaukee.

And the really cool part is that Parker and Ginobili could start in the backcourt in 3-4 seasons instead of 6-7.

How's that?


:cooldevil

TwoHandJam
07-07-2003, 04:25 PM
Letting Jack walk for Peeler? Remind me what is great about that idea.
I'd do it for Pike, though. That mofo can hit the open shot from anywhere.

kohai
07-07-2003, 04:25 PM
If either Payton OR Kidd is singed this year, you can pretty much:

a) kiss Speedy goodbye, immediately
b) kiss Manu goodbye in 2004.
c) possibly kiss Jack goodbye, as minutes at the 2 will be almost non-existant, and Manu will take most of them, and then some at the 3.

Archie
07-07-2003, 04:27 PM
And the Spurs would somehow magically not have the cap rules apply to Ginobili in 2004 if the Spurs sign someone else?

Spurs are bringing back Jack.

kohai
07-07-2003, 04:29 PM
Archie, I know that the Spurs WANT to bring back Jack, but does he want to come back to pretty much back up Bruce? His minutes at the 2 will be almost zero, since Manu has to play SOMETIME.

IcemanCometh
07-07-2003, 04:37 PM
yeah payton can guard sgs better than kidd who can guard them not at all. and remind me again how good milwaukees defense was? Anyone who knows basketball knows that milwaukee's best lineup was payton/redd backcourt

Ghost Writer
07-07-2003, 04:46 PM
What's your point, Ice, besides suggesting that Payton be a better choice than Kidd for the Spurs if you had to choose between them?



:cooldevil

IcemanCometh
07-07-2003, 04:50 PM
payton isn't a better choice, hes the same choice in many ways, and a worse choice in other ways.

Ghost Writer
07-07-2003, 04:51 PM
Okay, then. It's settled — you have absolutely no point.








:cooldevil

IcemanCometh
07-07-2003, 04:53 PM
and as usual my overarching point is you're a moron

Ghost Writer
07-07-2003, 05:11 PM
You don't want Kidd. You don't want Payton. I assume you still holding out for Joe Johnson and lenny Cooke, stunod?


:cooldevil

ducks
07-07-2003, 05:40 PM
gp mentioned playing for the heat

Truthsayer
07-07-2003, 08:38 PM
I have been advocating a run at signing Payton & Malone for months. Now that the Lakers are making a run at it others are joining on the bandwagon.

Too bad, it ain't gonna happen now.

On the bright side, we still may land:

Jermaine & ?
Kidd & Zo
Kidd & Scola
Brand & ?
or too many other possible combinations to list, most of whom will make the Spurs contenders for years to come.

Too many exciting possibilities to worry about anything this early in the game. I've got faith in Pop and RC.

MrCarmenE
07-07-2003, 11:59 PM
Word coming from the west coast is that Payton will not commit with the Lakers and that he is still talking to his agent about other possibilities. So he'll wait before committing just yet.

GP wants see if a sign and trade between the blazers and Bucks can be worked out.

Miami may be in the picture also now.

ChumpDumper
07-08-2003, 12:01 AM
Money wins again.
:shootme

Archie
07-08-2003, 12:03 AM
GP wants see if a sign and trade between the blazers and Bucks can be worked out.


I seem to recall hearing such a suggestion before...:cooldevil

Ghost Writer
07-08-2003, 11:21 AM
Truthsayer, perhaps you should become a Lakers fan if LA does land Payton and Malone?







Question.


:cooldevil



P.S.

It did seem too good to be true for the Lakers. I could see either Malone or Payton, but both?!?