Pop giving up?

[Rick Von Braun]

WTF?

There were still 2:48 in the clock, Spurs' ball down by 13 and Pop decides to send in the scrubs. Even the DC local broadcasters were asking WTF was that.

Look, Timmy is having a bad game, fine, sit him. But 2:48 is still a lot of basketball to be played for a 5 posession game. Don't give the fucking up damn it. Leave Parker, Gino, Bowen, Horry and Rasho. If Rasho fouls out, put Nazr in there. A couple of back to back treys, and you suddenly have a ball game... if the Spurs cannot hit them, tough luck, but at least you play your cards.

And just to preempt some comments.

I'm pretty sure Pop has forgotten more about basketball than I'll ever know yada yada. He's learned things about his players that I will never know. He knows that Nick the Quick likes Mexican food and Nazr is afraid of spiders. He's heard that Finley switched shaving razors brands from Mach3 to Quattro and developed a bad case of allergy. Maybe I am a fucking moron, but...

... next game is Tuesday, so don't play the fucking "rest your starters" card. It was a back-to-back game for the Wizards as well (I'll concede it was easier for them with a home back-to-back and an easy win vs the Sonics, but still...). Perhaps more importantly, you don't teach any lessons by not leaving the guys will bring you to the championship game on the floor fighting.

I don't care about the loss, I don't care about how horrid was any individual performance, but I do care about giving up early when there is still a chance. Pop, if you want to teach a lesson, here is one:

Champions never give up when there is a fighting chance. Never.

[TDMVPDPOY]

and risk injury? season is still long to go, its only one game....as if we be seeing them in finals. they can have the win and tie breaker...

[T Park]

I don't care about the loss,

then WTF is your problem.


If you think they had a shot 13 down last night,

with the way the Wizards were shooting?

You were smokin some good peyote.

[boutons]

Fully agreed.

Except you're wrong about the timing, I remember over 3 minutes left and find today:

(3:05) [SAN] Bowen Substitution replaced by Oberto
(3:05) [SAN] Duncan Substitution replaced by Sanders
(3:05) [SAN] Ginobili Substitution replaced by Marks
(3:05) [SAN] Horry Substitution replaced by Mohammed

The only emotion I had at that point, greater than the dissappointment in the game, was the ANGER at Pop sending up the white flag. You fucking quitter!!

THREE MINUTES LEFT!!!

You call your finishers together, you challenge them to bow their necks, stiffen their backs (instead of shrug their shoulders), forget the nightmare so far, and reach down pull up the grit of Champions. They had nothing to lose at that point. Don't EVER give up, even in Game 7 of 82. No shame in losing in a valiant effort, that awesome, scary cruch time run that just falls short but shows the entire NBA what it takes to beat the Spurs. Spurs might even turn a forgettable, embarassing, humiliating loss into a memorable, saber-rattling, confidence-buidling, chest-thumping victory.

This "nothing's worth fighting for except the playoffs" attitude cheats everybody.

Then, as if to really piss myself off, I watch the gritty Bucks fucking WIN at the buzzer after being behind all game vs PAcers and Bucks still down -8 with 45 seconds left.

Hey, Pop, how about we "quit" paying all your salary for November, say we slice off the last 3 days?? You sonofabtich quitter.

[TDMVPDPOY]

^you hurt pops feelin, his goin to come back with a 10 win streak

[2centsworth]

Spurs are on cruise control. Just like last year. Dang it's hard to watch the regular season.

[leemajors]

peyote isn't the same when you smoke it. it has to be ingested.

[T Park]

Hey, Pop, how about we "quit" paying all your salary for November, say we slice off the last 3 days?? You sonofabtich quitter.


God shut the fuck up.

You pop haters know no ends do you?

[boutons]

T_park, legendary quitter and liar, naturally defends Pop's to decision to throw in the towel vs Wiz.

I don't hate Pop. I do despise when Pop quits when the outcome is still in play, not that such a nuance would be within reach of your lipid-addled brain.

I do appreciate T_park's myopic concern for risk of injury, based on his own risk of lower-body injury he takes every time he simply stands up. :lol

[Crookshanks]

It was quite clear about halfway through the 4th quarter that the Spurs were not going to win. The Wizards couldn't miss, especially Arenas, and the Spurs were missing easy lay-ups, especially Timmy.

Why give Pop grief? It was just one lousy night - no big deal.

[thispego]

Pop is making sure right off the bat that he wont be selected as the All-Star coach two years running, he hates that shit.....

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

bucks did it against the Pacers and noone would have expected that.

but im sure on the end of a road trip that the last thing Pop wants is some dumb injury coz they tried hard to come back

if it was at the SBC and it was the same score line maybe things would be different

i dont know, you guys know how Pop works

[Gummi]

I thought it was the right thing to do. Washington was never going to lose the game the way they were playing, no way. Arenas was unbelievable and it seemed that every Wizard shot went in. I don't have a problem with it in Game 7 of the season, now if it was a playoff game, then we all know that Pop wouldn't have done it.

[ChumpDumper]

Pop pulled the starters so the Wiz would have to pull Arenas before he dropped a double-nickel on our asses.

[hussker]

Folks, old ones you know where I am coming from, younguns..you can research it. Spurs are CLASICALLY a team that gets off in the Second half of the season, even when Pop was the GM. Look it up...

Fret not, #4 will be ours. Stuff happens. I challenge you all to look back at the 94-95 season and see what we did in late season, and who WAS NOT playing for us when we did it. He took credit, yet he cost us the playoffs with his idiocy. Look back at '99. Spurs did not really take off until we came back vs the Rockettes in April (remember Mario Elie's three? the DAGGER?). Late season spurt in the 02-03 season got us in line for the playoffs. Last year, probably the most balanced of all championship seasons, but really started peaking after All star break.

Anyone who can deny that and wants to be a Debbie Downer can STFU. Wahhhh, wahhhh, wahhhhhhhhh.....
GSG!

Hugs,
Hussker

[TOP-CHERRY]

I am so tired of you Pop bashers.

You guys do realize that Pop is one of the best and most respected coaches in the league, right? You also realize that Pop knows the game better than we do? And that whatever he does he does with the team's interest in mind?

What do you know about the reasons Pop did this? Maybe he sent in the reserves to see how they'd finish a game... To see what to help them with, what to tweak, what to learn from them... see who'd be a better use in future games.

Unlike some of you guys, Pop takes substance over wins. The guy knows what he's doing; and it's very hypocritical that the same people who bash him non-stop the whole damn season are the same ones who kiss his toes when he takes the team to a championship.

I'm just tired of it.

[hussker]

TELL EM CHERRY! Pop Bashing was in vogue in the 96-97 season when he fired Hill. That is a memory now. 1) Feick is not our center 2) Dominique is not our scoring threat 3) We have THREE under the guidance of Pop.

STFU and deal with it, oh yeah, and GSG!

[z0sa]

Pop shouldn't have quit, but its really not a big deal. The reason teams like the Bucks fight til the very end to win a game is because they simply want to make the playoffs. We don't have that problem. We can lose games and still get 55+ wins and secure our playoff spot and thats all that matters.

[Marcus Bryant]

Pop has led 3 teams to NBA titles you cannot question him. [/Spurs fans]

[ShoogarBear]

Didn't get to see the game, but given the facts presented, I gotta agree with Rick. Three minutes left, down by 13, and you pull the starters? That's mental softness by the coaching.

JVG didn't pull T-Mac last year when he was sucking and the Spurs were whooping ass with 2 min left . . .

[T Park]

Fire Pop then.

[ShoogarBear]

No, we aren't quitting on him.

[smeagol]

I don't understand those people who think Pop can't be criticized (TPark, Cherry, etc). RVB's comment is a fair one. You don't quit with 3 minutes left and 13 pts to go.

And TPark defending Pop for quitting is simply priceless.

[Spurminator]

I was thinking the same thing as RVB last night... Just seemed too early to pull the guns. Maybe he was punishing them for playing such offensive defense all night.

[Brutalis]

We had nothing to prove or risk in that game. Pop is obviously smart seeing 2 minutes left, a double digit lead, early in the season and already having some injuries and letting the backups get some gametime

You're right though. Champs never give up. And the Spurs didn't. You don't think Pop had confidense in them to make a comeback? We could have, and probably would have had the game been crucial.

Plus it would have been typical for a coach to run his starters in an effort to comeback and wind up having a star injured. Over what? Come on, I hope you weren't that dramatic over the game.

[Marcus Bryant]

In general, the 3 minute mark is too early to give up on a game. Who knows, maybe Pop was disappointed in his starters or thought they were gassed?

[TOP-CHERRY]

I don't understand those people who think Pop can't be criticized (TPark, Cherry, etc). RVB's comment is a fair one. You don't quit with 3 minutes left and 13 pts to go.

It's not that he can't be criticized; it's that we have faith in that what he does is what he's always been doing, and it's been proven to be effective, and has the trophies to show for it.

At first, I was also a little lost when he sat his starters. But after thinking about it, it made sense. The whole team was doing pretty horribly, and it was pretty impossible for them to just suddenly "turn on" and take over the game with 3 minutes left and the whole crowd riled up for the Wizards.

Besides, like it's been said already, why risk injury just to prove to a not so good team that the champions can beat them? It's ridiculous.

[sanman53]

I agree with the earlier post, if this was game seven of a playoff game, Id be confused too! But this is to early, I dont wanna see Duncan get hurt this early. To big of a risk, imo. Besides, all off season we (fans) say, "Our bench can beat your starters", give them a chance to prove it.

[GoSpurs21]

whatever, Pop has to take Tim out, Tim unlike TMac is not going to catch fire after sucking ass so bad. I can understand your point, but at the end of a 5 game road trip, and nobody being able to stop the Wiz inside I dont know what line up could have prevented Washington from winning. I realy wish you would have provided some sort of defensive lineup to prevent the Wiz from scoring cause obviously none of the Spurs line ups worked.

but I guess all your championships show you would have done better. its one fucking game who cares, except you.

[gmanrulz]

i agree with this post. milwaukee was down 14 with just over 3 minutes to go and they ended up winning in regulation. and they were down 14 to the pacers, not the wizards.

[spurster]

This is going to a good season, second-guessing Pop's move is already a hot issue.

Anyway, I thought it was early to start garbage time, too.

[smeagol]

In my view, 3 minutes to go after scoring 5 points straight is not the right moment to pull the starters. Timmy was sucking ass, but Manu and TP were playing all right.

But even insinuating Pop might have made a mistake will bring the TPark wrath upon me.

[boutons]

What's this injury fear?

The starters were all over 30 mins already, what's the huge additional risk for another 3 minutes? You "injury" people are bunch of wimps.

you play to win. You step up the defense a notch. You keep Tim as decoy, drawing the double teams, play inside/out, but let the guards do the driving and scoring, Tim rebounds and picks up the garbage.

[TOP-CHERRY]

What's this injury fear?

The starters were all over 30 mins already, what's the huge additional risk for another 3 minutes? You "injury" people are bunch of wimps.
We've seen what a Timmy injury does. Forgive us if we make a big deal out of preventing it as much as possible.

you play to win. You step up the defense a notch. You keep Tim as decoy, drawing the double teams, play inside/out, but let the guards do the driving and scoring, Tim rebounds and picks up the garbage.
We both now they weren't gonna do any of that in the last 3 mins. They weren't showing that throughout the whole game. No way they'd suddenly wake up and win it.

[boutons]

It's OK that we RISK poor, fragile, aging Timmy for 34 minutes of play, but not for 37 minutes, 7 games into the season, when everybody's still rested and recovery time to the playoffs 5 months long?

It's a coach's job, the team leader's job, to try to kick the team in their collective pscyological butts, to rally them for the last 3 minutes. That's what makes great moments in sports. It's the kind of opportunity the CHAMPIONS grasp and go for.

What confidence builder,
what a way to negate and overcome an otherwise dismal game,
what a waste of a superb shooting pefomance by our front court.

Say the Spurs listen to Coach Boutons and go for it, but they lose by by only 1 or 2, in the face of 57% shooting on the road. A huge confidence builder for the Spurs, a huge signal for the opponents: don't EVER turn your back on the Spurs (eg, Spusrs@PHX last Jan).


What fucking bunch quitters you "fans" are.
Is all this talk about BELIEVE just cheap bullshit? :)

[TOP-CHERRY]

A huge confidence builder for the Spurs, a huge signal for the opponents: don't EVER turn your back on the Spurs (eg, Spusrs@PHX last Jan).
I'd rather they realize that when it's too late for them. (for other teams)

[Rummpd]

I agree to a point, what I would have like to have seen is Timmy at Center with our 4 best 3 point shooters - Van Exel, Beno, Manu, and Bowen and just fire away for a minute more or so - 2 quick 3's and you have a chance.
Also, Wizards were bricking FTs ala Spurs from past seasons last night, so a 13 point was not insurmountable!


Spurs though lost the game at end of 3rd quarter - how the let Arenas go 55 feet in 2 seconds to get that shot off, even as long as it was, was inane!

Then instead of coming out pissed and motivated they fell asleep - not good, but typical early season Spurs.

[sprrs]

It's OK that we RISK poor, fragile, aging Timmy for 34 minutes of play, but not for 37 minutes, 7 games into the season, when everybody's still rested and recovery time to the playoffs 5 months long?


Suppose Pop decided to keep Timmy in the game, and the make it close or even come back to win, BUT Timmy tweaks an ankle because he landed on Haywood's foot in the last minute.

Would you be complaining that Pop should have sat him earlier to avoid injury, rather than having a shot at winning ONE GAME in the REGULAR SEASON.

Injuries can happen anytime in the game, even in the closing seconds, whether you play 48 minutes that night or only two.

And suppose Timmy does get injured and misses a month at most. All it'll be doing is delaying the chemistry of the team, which in turn will cause them to lose more games.

[Spurzn703]

Talk about some bitter shitheads. With the way Gilbert Apenis was shooting, we werent going to win the game.

I was there on Sat night, and I went to last year's game too, when Timmy didn't play due to injury. Arenas showed up for both games. Him and Jamison, that's all the Wizsucks have.

One of them gets hurt, and they're fucked

[ShoogarBear]

These are some of the most asinine arguments I've ever heard. Do you people even play sports?

A dumb injury is one when you're blowing someone out and you don't need the starters in. Nobody EVER (repeat EVER!!) gets criticized for playing to WIN a game. Good Lord.

[boutons]

82 x 33 mpg = Tim played 2,700 minutes last season.
He'll probably play more this season.

People are afraid of injury in letting Tim play 3 crunch time minutes, in probably 3000 mins over this season, to try to win a game?

To reduce a player's minutes to rest him is fine (the probabality of obtaining rest is extremely high).

To reduce a player's (crunch time) minutes in order to avoid twisting an ankle is just stupid (the probability of avoiding twisting an ankle is extremely low).

WTF use is Tim if he's so delicate and injury prone that we can't play him in crunch time?

[sprrs]

down 13 the way both teams were playing with such little time left in game 7 of the regular season should hardly be called crunch time.

[smeagol]

The way Duncan was playing he should have been sitting on the bench a lot sooner or at least letting Manu and TP do the heavy lifting. He was sucking major ass, they were playing well.

[Mark in Austin]

good question for the next Pop show. somebody should call in and ask about this.

[boutons]

It's crunch time when you want to play it a crunch time. Pop wanted to play the last 3 minutes as garbage time.

down 4 possessions, a couple of 3-pt plays and a couple of Spurs stops/Wiz misses, and we got crunch time. never give up.

[sa_butta]

I too would have liked to see an honest effort, but the way the game was going I really couldnt see us coming back from a 14 point deficit in 3:00 min.

[ChumpDumper]

Ah, if we could have gotten anything resembling a stop before the three minute mark, I might agree. At best we would've been trading baskets.

[Marcus Bryant]

These are some of the most asinine arguments I've ever heard. Do you people even play sports?

A dumb injury is one when you're blowing someone out and you don't need the starters in. Nobody EVER (repeat EVER!!) gets criticized for playing to WIN a game. Good Lord.


Welcome to ST.com circa 2005.

[Tek_XX]

wE LOST THAT GAME FOLKS, GET THE FUDGE OVER IT.

Oh yeah pop has no clue what he's doing, that's why he's a highly paid NBA coach and you guys are a bunch of drunken wifebeating losers sitting at your computer all freaking day long.

[nkdlunch]

wE LOST THAT GAME FOLKS, GET THE FUDGE OVER IT.

Oh yeah pop has no clue what he's doing, that's why he's a highly paid NBA coach and you guys are a bunch of drunken wifebeating losers sitting at your computer all freaking day long.

I resent that sir!!! I'm not married and rarely abuse my girlfriend

[sprrs]

It's crunch time when you want to play it a crunch time. Pop wanted to play the last 3 minutes as garbage time.

down 4 possessions, a couple of 3-pt plays and a couple of Spurs stops/Wiz misses, and we got crunch time. never give up.

Like many have said, it isn't that important of a game to waste an effort trying to come back. And as for the whole building up confidence thing: in a team mostly filled with vets and players who have already won a few championships, one come from behind win won't do anything for them they haven't already done for themselves.