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View Full Version : When Will Parker Be Better Than Kidd?



timvp
07-03-2003, 06:10 PM
I think there is a chance he is better in 2-3 years. I know that sounds unrealistic and homerish, but look at how far Parker has come in such a short amount of time.

He's the last pick of the first round so automatically, he has to prove he's good enough to make the team.

Then he starts the season as the backup, with becoming a starter the next step. That took all of like 4 games.

Then he had a good rookie season but had to prove he was a real starting quality player. He did that against GP in the playoffs.

After his rookie season, he needed to prove he wasn't just a flash in the pan. In his second season, he improved across the board and became the second best player on a Championship team.

This isn't a player with a slow growth curve. He takes giant steps.

Take this season, for example. He started off slow, but then put up MONSTER numbers when the Spurs turned on the burners.

January
17.6 PPG
5.5 APG
46.7% FG
36.4% 3P

February
17.4 PPG
6.1 APG
50.4% FG
46.2% 3P

March
16.5 PPG
5.2 APG
47.7% FG
31.6% 3P

I believe this upcoming season, he'll average about 18 points per game and about 6.5 assists. The next season, I think he'll average more than 20 points a game.

He is destined to be a 22 and 8 guy for this team. He has that potential and the drive to make it happen.

We have a budding star in our grasps, fellas.

Are you comfortable enough in Kidd's greatness to give that away?











Question.

CosmicCowboyXXX
07-03-2003, 06:12 PM
nope

Bandit2981
07-03-2003, 06:12 PM
why cant kidd play for the 3-4 years and when parker becomes better(if its in that time), kidd will then back him up? it will still be a great combo

DuffMcCartney
07-03-2003, 06:14 PM
He is definitely gonna be better than kidd, I dont even consider Kidd to be the top PG in the league. He is just a stiff. A good player on a shite team always looks great. I know Tony is definitely gonna be a better PG than Kidd is.

CosmicCowboyXXX
07-03-2003, 06:14 PM
yeah...an 18 million a year backup point guard makes a lot of sense...:wink

Marcus Bryant
07-03-2003, 06:15 PM
There's nothing worse than when Spurs fans allow their love of a Spurs player to turn into hatred for a great player.

Marcus Bryant
07-03-2003, 06:18 PM
When will Parker be able to carry a team like the Nets into the NBA Finals from the East? Perhaps in about 5 seasons. Maybe.

How long does Duncan have to wait?

Bandit2981
07-03-2003, 06:21 PM
yeah...an 18 million a year backup point guard makes a lot of sense...
what about a 10 million bench warmer named smitty?

timvp
07-03-2003, 06:22 PM
Very valid point, MB.

I guess it's up to Pop and management to decide which side of the coin to go with.

The good thing about them is they don't give a sh!t about what fans think. Remember, they were ready to let Robinson walk if they sign Webber.

adidas11
07-03-2003, 06:23 PM
Parker can't carry a team on his own to the NBA Finals. Not now, not ever.

Jason Kid > Tony Parker

Forever.

ChumpDumper
07-03-2003, 06:24 PM
How long does Duncan have to wait?

Didn't he just win a championship without Kidd and with Parker?

Whottt
07-03-2003, 06:24 PM
Parker probably won't ever be able to carry a team like Kidd can, he just doesn't have the total skill set...few PG's do..but he does have what it takes to make a dominant bigman better, the ability to score..I don't see Parker's assist totals making huge gains any time soon, he might get up to 8 a game but I don't think he's ever gonna get to 9 or 10 with Duncan getting the ball for most of every clock. I do see Parker's scoring total rising though..

Parker isn't ever going to be comparable to Kidd all around IMO..but that doesn't mean he isn't gonna wind up with more rings or be an irreplacable part of a perennial championship contender.

Marcus Bryant
07-03-2003, 06:31 PM
Didn't he just win a championship without Kidd and with Parker?

Can he count on that for the next 5 years? A lot went down that made that possible, including some luck, namely a rimmed out Horry 3. You can't count on Kerr coming off the bench to save your ass after your inept offense blew a series clinching game at home forever.

Jimcs50
07-03-2003, 06:45 PM
TP will be better next year as he leasds the team to its 2nd cons championship and Kidd goes down in 2nd rd.

adidas11
07-03-2003, 06:49 PM
Quote: "Parker probably won't ever be able to carry a team like Kidd can, he just doesn't have the total skill set...few PG's do..but he does have what it takes to make a dominant bigman better, the ability to score..I don't see Parker's assist totals making huge gains any time soon, he might get up to 8 a game but I don't think he's ever gonna get to 9 or 10 with Duncan getting the ball for most of every clock. I do see Parker's scoring total rising though..

Parker isn't ever going to be comparable to Kidd all around IMO..but that doesn't mean he isn't gonna wind up with more rings or be an irreplacable part of a perennial championship contender. "



I couldn't have said it better myself, Whott.

Parker is a solid point guard, and obviously capable of being a starting point on a championship caliber team.

Don't look at picking up Jason Kidd as trying to upgrade the point guard position. Look at it is trying to land a second NEEDED superstar on your roster.

picnroll
07-03-2003, 06:52 PM
I guess I missed something in the finals where Kidd carried the Nets. When Kidd was hitting his shot the Nets were in it except game 2 where he sucked but they were still in it. When Kidd wasn't hitting his shots they weren't in it. And that's Kidd, streaky at best as a scorer. He didn't carry the Nets with his transition game. He didn't carry the Nets with his assists. He didn't carry the Nets with his rebounding. He didn't carry the Nets with his defense. He didn't carry the Nets period. Did I'm miss some finals that you all were watching?

Parker, when he scored, as all year the Spurs won. Does anyone think he's not going to become a more consistent scorer? That's all it takes.

smackdaddy11
07-03-2003, 06:53 PM
I guess it's up to Pop and management to decide which side of the coin to go with.

One more VIP voice in the mix, TD.

ducks
07-03-2003, 06:55 PM
yeah the spurs really NEEDED a second star last year?
Spurs really needed a hall of fame point guard they won with AJ and tony. Proves they do not need a hall of fame quarterback to get it done.

also lakers won titles without one so did the bulls


see lakers had 2 and still got their asses kicked


oneal is a better option

also two second teir fa's are better then kidd (atleast I think so)

ducks
07-03-2003, 06:56 PM
could kobe carry the nets to the finals instead of kidd?

ChumpDumper
07-03-2003, 07:15 PM
[EDIT]

ChumpDumper
07-03-2003, 07:15 PM
Can he count on that for the next 5 years?

Can he count on Kidd and a summer league center?

Luck always plays a role in championships. Don't kid(d) yourself.

mrcoon
07-03-2003, 07:24 PM
When Will he? Well, I had both players on my Fantasy Roster this past season and night after night (with an exception here and there for both players) Parker was the winner hands down. His FG% and FT% were consistently better over J Kidd. Yes, Kidd averaged more assists, but his turnovers were horrible. When Kidd managed 25-30 points his FG% looked like he had Bruce B on his ass all night!
So, yeah, Kidd may average more assists but, Frankly that's not enuf for me. In my opinion, Tony is just as good as Kidd when I look back over last seasons stats. I say, Spurs go after the big guys!! :cat

50 Cent
07-03-2003, 07:27 PM
Proves they do not need a hall of fame quarterback to get it done.
Timmy is our HOF quarterback. You guys forget we run the offense through Tim, not a PG. We need a quick, slashing PG that can shoot like Tony, not one that is a poor shooter like Kidd.

Bandit2981
07-03-2003, 07:35 PM
Timmy is our HOF quarterback. You guys forget we run the offense through Tim, not a PG
hmm, maybe theres a reason for that?? :smokin2

50 Cent
07-03-2003, 07:39 PM
I hate listening to Shaq bitch as much as the next guy, but he has a point when he says all he needs somebody to do is thrown him the damn ball. And then if he kicks it out, hit a shot. That's the offense we will run through Tim as long as he is dominant and that's the way it should be.

Bandit2981
07-03-2003, 07:48 PM
the fallacy in your argument is that you keep saying kidd is a bad shooter, so he will hurt us and we dont need him...look at other aspects of his game, which i posted in another thread....
#1. he averages 4 more rebounds per game than parker, which potentially could lead to 8-12 more points
#2. he averages 4 more assists than parker, which you may also be able to tack on the extra 8-12 points(depending on the situation), as well as say he sets up more people for easy high percentage buckets or wide open looks instead of more difficult well-guarded outside shots
#3. he averages 2 more steals a game, which not only shifts momentum, but can gnerate quick buckets and potentially as well be another 4-6 points for the team
#4. his shooting is only 5% worse than parkers, not a significant margin
#5. his FT percentage is 9% higher, and having the ability to get to the bucket, these freebees can add up and stop other teams from coming from behind on us so much

KoriEllis
07-03-2003, 07:49 PM
I don't really ever compare Parker to Kidd because they are completely different. Parker is a scoring point; Kidd is a distributing point -- he flourishes in the transition game and all the offense flows through him.

My main hesitation in the acquisition of Jason Kidd is simple.

With Kidd as a Spur, the offense would run through Kidd and the Spurs would be more of a running team than a half-court team.

We all *know* that Tim Duncan has won two MVP's and two titles with the ball going through HIM.

Do we know that Duncan's game will improve if the offense is run through a distributing point guard like Kidd instead? Has Duncan ever played with that kind of point guard? Ever??

Can you guarantee me bringing in Kidd is going to improve Duncan's game? It might make sense that it would because the floor would open up, he wouldn't have to handle the ball as much, etc. But do we know for sure that Duncan can still be Duncan if things change?

Bandit2981
07-03-2003, 07:53 PM
Do we know that Duncan's game will improve if the offense is run through a distributing point guard like Kidd instead? Has Duncan ever played with that kind of point guard? Ever??
you're forgetting that duncan actually likes to get out and run...how many times have we seen him trying to lead the break? and playing with kidd on the olympic team was something both really enjoyed. if duncan was happy having such a point guard on his side, its kind of a moot point to wonder how he will respond to it...he's basically the one who has been pushing for kidd to come aboard, and he knows his game better than any of us :king

KoriEllis
07-03-2003, 08:00 PM
Oh I know Duncan likes to run on occasion. The Spurs have a team right now that can do both, which is an asset. But with Kidd, it would be running most of the time. That doesn't go with Duncan's strength, which is setting up in the low block.


he's basically the one who has been pushing for kidd to come aboard

Yes, that's what the media tells us.

50 Cent
07-03-2003, 08:41 PM
I believe Tim saying after the Finals, "Tony is my man."

Admiral
07-03-2003, 08:55 PM
Sometimes I wonder why this should even be an issue. The kid is 21 and has grown by leaps and bounds. He single-handedly took over in key playoff games this year and, without those performances, we likely wouldn't be talking about our recent championship. He's already in the top half of PG's in the league, and I agree with timvp that Parker will be a 22 and 8 guy in two years or less. 18 and 6 next year is not being unrealistic at all.

I don't think it's fair to knock on Parker's playmaking ability when he hasn't really had the chance to set tempo and control the offense. If you want a playmaker like Kidd, instead of running the offense through Duncan, why not give Parker a shot? He has the leadership skills, the quickness, and the natural instincts to be a very good playmaker. Sure, he looks for his shot more than a guy like John Stockton did, but Parker has proven that he is a quick learner. He's not afraid to step up and make big plays. If we want to let our PG control the offense instead of Duncan, Parker will rise to the occasion.

Oh yeah, and for the 18324th time, if we sign Kidd, Parker is gone. Tony will not be happy at shooting guard, nor will he be happy "learning" from Kidd throughout his 20's. Learn some psychology and a little bit about the mentality of a point guard, and it becomes obvious. It's Kidd or Parker, not both.

I choose Parker, and it's not even a tough decision.

adidas11
07-03-2003, 09:16 PM
And thus, the whole problem with the HOLTING PATTERN.

You are left with very few options, and the best option might not even be an ideal fit for your team.

This is the Spurs big opportunity to land the coveted "second superstar" that will definitely be needed as time progresses. But at the same time, I understand KoriEllis and Admiral's reservations about picking up Kidd, in favor of Tony Parker. Kidd might not be the ideal fit for the Spurs.

Thank the HOLTING PATTERN for that. :)

50 Cent
07-03-2003, 09:24 PM
Oh yeah, and for the 18324th time, if we sign Kidd, Parker is gone. Tony will not be happy at shooting guard, nor will he be happy "learning" from Kidd throughout his 20's. Learn some psychology and a little bit about the mentality of a point guard, and it becomes obvious. It's Kidd or Parker, not both.
Couldn't have said it better myself.

Adidas, you have no clue what Holt is willing to do for the right players. This team isn't an investment to him and the rest of the ownership group. They are more than willing to go over the cap and into the lux. tax zone for the right players. I just hope it's not for a mistake like Kidd.

Whottt
07-03-2003, 09:28 PM
The "holting pattern" as people call it has nothing to do with Kidd being a bad fit...Tony has every thing to do with it.

If Tony sucked we'd be all over signing Kidd.

ducks
07-03-2003, 09:31 PM
heard that that the spurs would have to spend 52 million to go to the luxury tax

Marcus Bryant
07-03-2003, 09:31 PM
And Parker will leap over buildings in a single bound. You guys are coming up with some rather rosy scenarios for Parker's development. A bit of a stretch for a player who was benched when the championship was on the line.

I'd love to believe the story of the Spurs' home grown point guard who becomes a superstar. Unfortunately that's just a fiction right now. Tim Duncan does not deserve to have his future based upon what could happen. Certainly not when this is the best time for the Spurs to add a superstar teammate for him.

Duncan deserves it. Now is the 2nd time he's decided to stay in San Antonio and give you something to cheer for...and you forget about him in favor of your virtual GM fantasies.

He doesn't deserve speculation and being stuck with a bunch of role players and ne'er do wells that he has to carry on his own. He doesn't deserve what David Robinson faced from 1989-96. Those were some tough years for us Spurs fans who bother to remember. Hard to believe then that there would be a day when some geniuses who call themselves Spurs fans would advocate turning down a great player who wants to play in SA for crap.

I see some of you talk about a Spurs "dynasty" and other assorted drivel. The Spurs have proven nothing except that they can win a title with a couple of major injuries to conference rivals and a key missed shot...with a player who supposedly is worth passing on an All-NBA team member riding the pine when the title clinching game is on the line. Now his backup who saved the day is a highly sought after free agent and the 37 year old guard who came off the bench to save the day twice from the great offense run by the prodigy is seriously pondering retirement. It's time for some of you to face reality and take off your silver and black rimmed glasses. This Spurs team is far from a dynasty, especially with LA, Sacramento, and Dallas in their conference and a team like Phoenix on the rise.

You think the Spurs can simply mark time, perhaps find someone to replace Robinson, and call it an offseason...the lone offseason during Duncan's prime playing years in which the Spurs can add a major talent. That is foolish.

I'm tired of reading your hysterical rants about how horrible a player Jason Kidd is. Sometimes your inability to appreciate the game of a non-Spur makes me wish you never had the opportunity to enjoy Duncan's game. Remember how you feel when someone talks shit about Timmy D's game? Well, the next time you go off on a rant about Kidd remember that. Because that is how fucking stupid some of you sound.

ducks
07-03-2003, 09:35 PM
did you think tp would be as good this year as he was?

mb the mavs were losing the series BEFORE DIRK got hurt

now marbury I can give you a little room but the spurs were still winning


so know TP IS A ROLE PLAYER :sleep :sleep :sleep :wtf

Marcus Bryant
07-03-2003, 09:38 PM
Keep dreaming duckie.

Whottt
07-03-2003, 09:41 PM
Have you spent much time considering the fact that Kidd probably isn't going to come here, by his own choice? I've never thought he was..Or that people liking Tony on a message board isn't going to have much bearing on what the Spurs do?

ducks
07-03-2003, 09:42 PM
I said I give you the suns series. marburry kills the spurs. without him 100% suns have no shot. spurs were winning the series though. dirk sure he is the great player but the other great players mavs have would not have gotten the shots and touches. dirk still can not play d

D WINS RINGS

ChumpDumper
07-03-2003, 09:45 PM
And thus, the whole problem with the HOLTING PATTERN.

You are left with very few options, and the best option might not even be an ideal fit for your team.

You think free agents are the only option.

You're wrong.

Marcus Bryant
07-03-2003, 09:45 PM
Then you're nuts.

Marcus Bryant
07-03-2003, 09:46 PM
Free agents aren't the only option...but they are the option where you don't have to give up any talent outright to acquire.

ChumpDumper
07-03-2003, 09:55 PM
Free agents aren't the only option...but they are the option where you don't have to give up any talent outright to acquire.
Not when you're under the cap and other teams are paying luxury taxes.

Whottt
07-03-2003, 09:55 PM
So what are your thoughts on the Spurs doing that assinine trade with Indiana for Brad(I'm gonna be the bitch of the WC)Miller if they sign Kidd?

And have you considered the fact that maybe Duncan is thinking..you know I started winning MVP's when Parker joined the team...I kinda want to keep him around.

Marcus Bryant
07-03-2003, 09:58 PM
There's one player who deserves credit for Tim Duncan winning those MVPs.....................

http://www.nba.com/media/playerfile/tim_duncan.jpg

Next.

Marcus Bryant
07-03-2003, 10:00 PM
Not when you're under the cap and other teams are paying luxury taxes.

I'll believe it when I see it. So far the talent given away due to lux tax fears is Robert Horry. And perhaps Anthony Peeler.

ducks
07-03-2003, 10:01 PM
no it could never be the talent around him or his coach it is all tim

please

it takes a team to win a mvp and usally one of the better records in the nba.

tim is a great player and deserves credit though to.

ChumpDumper
07-03-2003, 10:03 PM
I'll believe it when I see it. So far the talent given away due to lux tax fears is Robert Horry. And perhaps Anthony Peeler.

And how many were traded in anticipation of it?

Whottt
07-03-2003, 10:03 PM
Have you thought about the fact that Duncan for the first time in his career is going to probably have to pull the toughest defensive assignment as well as carry the offense on a nightly basis, like DROB had too, if we don't add a quality defensive big like Mourning? Not saying he can't do it..but it's gonna make him tired quicker if he has to get offensively fouled all night by Shaq for 5 or 6 games in a row.

Marcus Bryant
07-03-2003, 10:05 PM
That's ok. A Spurs fan once told me that in order for a player to be considered great he cannot have any breaks when it comes to defense. I would assume the same applies to Tim Duncan.

50 Cent
07-04-2003, 03:45 AM
Marcus, you if you honestly want Kidd and don't think we have more important issues to address with our free cap space, then you just have no clue about basketball and I will lump you in the same category as usty.

Archie
07-04-2003, 04:22 AM
50, lay off the 40s. Spurs cannot afford to pass on great talent for shit that addresses 'needs' short term.

F7
07-04-2003, 05:57 AM
The Spurs have proven nothing except that they can win a title with a couple of major injuries to conference rivals and a key missed shot

Marcus, I for one would welcome Kidd as an addition to the Spurs. He is a top 5 superstar in this league and with the Spurs versatility on offense (from playing the halfcourt to playing the transition) Kid would have no problem trying to adapt.

Kidd is the best point guard in the league, I'm sure he can run AND find a way to thrive in a half court offense.

BUT damn Marcus, I can't believe you just said that. (quoted above.)

MI21
07-04-2003, 06:39 AM
I would also support having Jason Kidd here, not as first option before O'Neal and Brand, but I would definitly welcome him.

But saying that Marcus is incredibly stupid and very unexpected. What champion team doesn't have some luck? Saying we won because of that missed shot is like saying the Bull only won because of Jordan's shot. It happened, and every team need luck on its side.

Archie
07-04-2003, 09:54 AM
Not stupid I'm just telling it like it is. The Spurs have to make decisions based on where they really stand in the league.

spurster
07-04-2003, 12:44 PM
When Will Parker Be Better Than Kidd?

The correct answer is "Nobody knows." Yes, we can make lots of predictions, and someone will think they are hot stuff for being lucky enough to be right.

I don't know. You don't know. The Spurs front office doesn't know. The only thing we know is that Kidd is as good as Kidd, and that is why he is very high on the Spurs list. Duncan, Kidd, and role players is a championship contender for the next 6 years.

I would agree that if Kidd comes, then Parker is likely gone in a year or two. I would prefer Kidd/Manu in the backcourt over Kidd/Parker. I don't see either Parker or Manu happy in a backup role. I don't want Parker to leave, but you can't make omelets without breaking some eggs.

It would be a tremendous gamble not to get Kidd if Jermaine turns down the Spurs and if Brand can't escape the Clippers. The Spurs would be making a big bet that either Parker or Manu will become a bonifide star AND that the Spurs will resign them when their contracts come up.

TwoHandJam
07-04-2003, 03:03 PM
M121 and spurster summed it up nicely. You get Kidd, but only after exhausting the possiblity of O'Neal or Brand.

Losing Parker will be a tough pill to swallow.

NCaliSpurs
07-04-2003, 03:42 PM
Marcus- As much as other people are dumping on Kidd, you are dumping on Parker.

Yes, he got benched, but yes, he also put the Spurs in the finals.

The Spurs - Tony Parker = #4 seed and a first round loss to the Lakers.

He was a major ingredient to this team. More than Drob, Stephen Jaxson, and Manu.

Nobody gives this kid his due.

I can only hope that if we get Kidd, we give Parker the opportunity to play for someone else.

adidas11
07-04-2003, 05:58 PM
NCali, I think MB's criticism of Parker is only because many posters on this board tend to overrate the kid, and he's sick of hearing the overrating. I have always though that Parker is a good point guard, who is capable of leading a team to the championship. But the way some of the posters here talk about him, they make Parker out to be some kind of superstar in the making. When in fact he is borderline all star talent, at best. Which is a GOOD thing for the Spurs.

Also, don't look at bringing in Kidd as solely to upgrade the point guard position. See it as bringing in a second SUPERSTAR that is much needed. Whether Parker stays or goes is up to the Spurs, but I wouldn't fault them for picking up Kidd, regardless. The guy makes teams better, that's his MO.

Man in Black1
07-04-2003, 06:59 PM
:white

I can't believe that it took a Laker fan's explanation to make the situation clearer?

Why is that?:fro

adidas11
07-04-2003, 07:40 PM
That's because I'm a more knowledgeable poster than most of the posters on this board Men In Black. I can look at things from an objective point of view when it concerns the Spurs.

NCaliSpurs
07-04-2003, 07:57 PM
I think MB's criticism of Parker is only because many posters on this board tend to overrate the kid,

He complains more about people underrating Jason Kidd. Part of that is people overrating Tony Parker.

But Marcus definitely underrates Tony. I know he does it partly for effect, but sometimes it gets under my skin. Tony is awesome. He schooled all the superstars at his position at least 2-3 times in each series. That is unheralded for a guy his age. I just have a problem with Marcus and others underrating Tony in order to make Jason Kidd look better.


But the way some of the posters here talk about him, they make Parker out to be some kind of superstar in the making. When in fact he is borderline all star talent, at best.

You have your opinion, we have ours. We can talk potential and history and blah blah blah, but it all winds up being opinion.


The guy makes teams better,

Most definitely. But there are mutliple situations that could arise where the Spurs do not add another superstar and still be much better than they were last year, and possibly better than they would be with kidd minus those new players.

The Superstar people often simplify the situation too much. If we had not won the championship with such a young, talented, and improving core of players, then the situation would be completely different. As it is, we have multiple ways to go because we don't know how good this team can be yet.

Particularly, can Tony, Manu, and Jackson do it again for Timmy?

NCaliSpurs
07-04-2003, 07:58 PM
That's because I'm a more knowledgeable poster than most of the posters on this board Men In Black. I can look at things from an objective point of view when it concerns the Spurs.

:elephant

Always willing to throw a parade in your own honor.

:sleep

adidas11
07-04-2003, 09:03 PM
Quote: "Always willing to throw a parade in your own honor."

Of course. It's fun! :)

As for Tony Parker, he was outmatched in 3 of the 4 playoff series. Stephon Marbury outplayed him, Steve Nash outplayed him, and Jason Kidd outplayed him. At least by the numbers. Don't act like Tony Parker showed each of those players how to play basketball. Now does Tony have to be better than those player in order for the Spurs to be successful? No. Having a solid point guard is more than adequate when you have a stud like Tim Duncan on your team. And Tony does have a good professional future ahead of him. It's just that I'm willing and able to see Tony Parker for what he is actually capable of bringing to the table.

NCaliSpurs
07-04-2003, 09:36 PM
Overall, you are right about Stephon and Jason.

But Tony outplayed Stephon in 2 games.

Tony outplayed Nash and NVE for 2-3 games.

Tony outplayed Kidd for 3 games (the first 3).

If you don't think that record is as impressive as I do, then we can't really have much of a discussion.

adidas11
07-04-2003, 11:31 PM
Agreed.

gunawanspurs
07-05-2003, 12:05 AM
That's because I'm a more knowledgeable poster than most of the posters on this board Men In Black. I can look at things from an objective point of view when it concerns the Spurs.

So, what's now, Adidas ? We should bow in front of your existence in this board ?

One arrogant PUNK, huh ! :rolleyes

TP might not be developed into an establised SUPERSTAR PG in the level of Kidd ( especially in his playmaking and allaroundness game ), but a Starbury level isn't out of question. And that's an "IMHO" thing. As much credible as your opinion as a "MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE POSTER" in the forum ! :rolleyes

Archie
07-05-2003, 07:27 PM
I haven't dumped on Parker I've told it like it is. You guys are ready to run away a great player who wants to play in San Antonio for him. You guys are the ones who have built up TonyP to be the second coming, not me. Parker can leave the Spurs high and dry in 3 years. Counting on him to be the second star the Spurs need is not a certainty...it is a hope. The problem with a lot of you is you tend to take your hopes as the Gospel Truth when it comes to Spurs players.

MannyIsGod
07-05-2003, 08:00 PM
exactly.

Admiral
07-06-2003, 01:11 AM
I haven't dumped on Parker I've told it like it is. -Marcus Bryant

And some of us aren't dumping on Kidd when we tell it like it is. Namely, that Kidd cannot shoot, has trouble defending fast point guards, and has shown an inability to execute as well in half-court sets as he does in the open court.

Those inadequacies are going to become even bigger liabilities as Kidd gets older. When Tim is still in his prime in three years, and Kidd's game has declined, how do you think Tim will like it then? Where is your foresight, Marcus?



You guys are ready to run away a great player who wants to play in San Antonio for him. You guys are the ones who have built up TonyP to be the second coming, not me. -Marcus Bryant

Second coming? Nobody here has claimed that. It's just a good thing that you weren't in charge of Kobe Bryant or Tracy McGrady after they had played just two years in the league:

Kobe Bryant - .428 FG, .341 3PT, 15.4 PPG, 3.4 RPG, 2.5 AST
Tracy McGrady - .436 FG, .229 3PT, 9.3 PPG, 5.7 RPG, 2.3 AST
Tony Parker - .464 FG, .337 3PT, 15.5 PPG, 2.6 RPG, 5.3 AST

People doubted Kobe and McGrady, much like some people doubt Parker now. All three skipped college to come to the NBA, and most knowledgeable fans realized that it would take young guys like Kobe and McGrady longer to develop. Right now, the Lakers are glad they endured Kobe's growing pains, and Toronto is kicking themselves for letting McGrady get away.

Parker is developing at a rapid rate, and has a lot of growth left in him. Kobe and McGrady have greatly improved on their second-year numbers, and Parker will too.


Parker can leave the Spurs high and dry in 3 years. -Marcus Bryant

And we could sign Jason Kidd to a max deal and he could pull a Grant Hill on us and stay injured every year. Nobody is making any guarantees about Parker, but most of us agree that his future is extremely bright - definitely worth the "gamble."

Besides, Parker has said that he wants to be a Spur, and has worked his butt off to improve his game. What more could you ask at this point?


Counting on him to be the second star the Spurs need is not a certainty...it is a hope. The problem with a lot of you is you tend to take your hopes as the Gospel Truth when it comes to Spurs players. -Marcus Bryant

And you are so desperate to sign a "name" like Kidd this summer that you are afraid to trust Parker. The evidence shows that Parker has improved a great deal, and it suggests that he will continue to improve at a similar pace. Look at other point guards in the league, and how it took them a few years to develop into the players they are today. They didn't even skip all four years of college like Parker did.

I think Kidd is one of the best PG's in the league, but I don't think he is the best PG for our needs and our style of play. Why can't you be equally objective about Parker, Marcus.

Archie
07-06-2003, 01:23 AM
Nice attempt Admiral. Tim Duncan could also "pull a Grant Hill." Again you try to tear down a great player and sell us on what Parker could be some day. Duncan doesn't have time to wait and neither do I. There's a reason Kidd has that "name." It's because he has the game. Certainly a man with your foresight is wasting his talents trying to sell us here on what Parker will be in 2007.

ducks
05-11-2019, 12:53 AM
Parker greater then kidd

ElNono
05-11-2019, 12:57 AM
https://media.giphy.com/media/l3E6uhDAN3W7vylji/giphy.gif

apalisoc_9
05-11-2019, 12:58 AM
https://media.giphy.com/media/l3E6uhDAN3W7vylji/giphy.gif

Parker surpassed Kid.

Parker is a much better player than Kidd.

Manu stans.

apalisoc_9
05-11-2019, 01:01 AM
Parker greater then kidd

You made a few post in 2003 with seemingly perfect english and now you can barely speak english.

You're either a CIA agent or or Mossad Agent.

Either or, its clear you like peeing on little girls.

ElNono
05-11-2019, 01:05 AM
Parker surpassed Kid.

Parker is a much better player than Kidd.

Manu stans.

:lol you're trolling. Porker fluffers, smh...

baseline bum
05-11-2019, 01:14 AM
So with hindsight the guy they really should have signed in 2003 was Stephen Jackson. :pctoss

I'm still pissed at Pop Lueing him with a three year deal when he wanted five.

timvp
05-11-2019, 01:24 AM
Damn, that was a good post, IMO. Pretty accurate. :tu

ElNono
05-11-2019, 03:32 AM
sorry, not hating on Tony, but he's never been anywhere near the defender, rebounder, leader and wife beater Kidd was, tbh... not to mention Kidd aged much more gracefully

baseline bum
05-11-2019, 07:07 AM
sorry, not hating on Tony, but he's never been anywhere near the defender, rebounder, leader and wife beater Kidd was, tbh... not to mention Kidd aged much more gracefully

The fuck? Kidd was the Nintendo 64 of point guards. Without a jumper he still looked impressive back in the olden times, just like 20 fps looked good on the N64 back then.

apalisoc_9
05-11-2019, 09:24 AM
The fuck? Kidd was the Nintendo 64 of point guards. Without a jumper he still looked impressive back in the olden times, just like 20 fps looked good on the N64 back then.

Product of an era.

Funny how you can be good at a "shooting" game without knowing how to shoot.

Clipper Nation
05-11-2019, 09:32 AM
:lol Porker wishes he was anywhere near Kidd's level. Those Nets teams that made the Finals would have struggled to win 20 games with Porker instead of Kidd.

KobesAchilles
05-11-2019, 11:56 AM
Best part of the thread was the guy saying that he didn’t care what Parker would be in 2007. My nicca was finals MVP. Kidd was done. One of the smartest things Pop ever did was keep TP.

ElNono
05-11-2019, 12:43 PM
The fuck? Kidd was the Nintendo 64 of point guards. Without a jumper he still looked impressive back in the olden times, just like 20 fps looked good on the N64 back then.

What I mean by that is that he completely bought into the lesser role with the Dirk's Mavs, understood it wasn't about him anymore, and was an integral piece of that championship team.

On the other side, you have a guy that's been done for the past 3-4 years, and his ego made him think he still thinks he deserves a larger role, which backfired terribly, tbh.

timvp
05-11-2019, 12:56 PM
On the other side, you have a guy that's been done for the past 3-4 years, and his ego made him think he still thinks he deserves a larger role, which backfired terribly, tbh.

Interesting definition of "backfired terribly." By playing with the Hornets, he had his best season since 2014, had perhaps the best season ever by a speed guard at that age, proved to be the only player to ever come back from a completely torn quad, got the Hornets to win at almost a HCA rate when he suited up, added MJ's wife to his count, added millions to his bank account and still had time to help hoist Manu's number to the rafters...

HarlemHeat37
05-11-2019, 01:20 PM
Kidd is the most overrated player of all-time IMO..

With that being said, he never got benched by an East lottery team..that has to count for something..

lefty
05-11-2019, 02:12 PM
Imagine benching Kidd for Clacton in the 4th quarter

Arcadian
05-11-2019, 06:26 PM
Kidd is the most overrated player of all-time IMO..

With that being said, he never got benched by an East lottery team..that has to count for something..

You're actually taking Charlotte Parker into account when evaluating his legacy? :lol Why? It's obvious he went there to just to collect a few more paychecks while warming Kemba Walker's chair. He was never not going to be on the bench.

Keep in mind that Parker has been playing pro ball since he was a teenager, so he's basically 50 in basketball years. Plus, all those deep playoff runs added miles to his odometer too.

DMC
05-11-2019, 07:50 PM
Imagine benching Kidd for Clacton in the 4th quarter

Tim was benched in the 4th quarter of a closeout Finals game. Pop does what Pop does. Doesn't say shit about the player.

lefty
05-11-2019, 08:02 PM
Tim was benched in the 4th quarter of a closeout Finals game. Pop does what Pop does. Doesn't say shit about the player.

In the whole 4th quarter?

DMC
05-11-2019, 11:16 PM
In the whole 4th quarter?

The part that mattered.

ElNono
05-12-2019, 01:36 AM
Interesting definition of "backfired terribly." By playing with the Hornets, he had his best season since 2014, had perhaps the best season ever by a speed guard at that age, proved to be the only player to ever come back from a completely torn quad, got the Hornets to win at almost a HCA rate when he suited up, added MJ's wife to his count, added millions to his bank account and still had time to help hoist Manu's number to the rafters...

tbh, when you need to start crowbaring terms like "speed guard", you know you're killing the sample size to boost up his relevancy... :lol

What I don't get is: why go through these histrionics? We all know who Parker is, he's not a bad guy, he's not unprofessional, he's far from the first player to think he had something to prove and that thought he was better than he really was. He's been done for like 3 years now.

Borrego certainly did him dirty outright benching him like that, and for all the alleged greatness of his season, he's unlikely go back there.

I don't want him back on the Spurs, and it has nothing to do with Tony. I'm more scared of senile Pop actually playing him at key moments when the season is on the line again.

His time is up, and we should all remember him for the great moments he had as a Spur.

lefty
05-12-2019, 03:18 AM
The part that mattered.

So a few minutes :lol
Thsnk you :lol

benefactor
05-12-2019, 11:47 AM
:lol Porker wishes he was anywhere near Kidd's level. Those Nets teams that made the Finals would have struggled to win 20 games with Porker instead of Kidd.
:lol dragging around Dick Jefferson and Kenyon Martin

Play Boban
05-12-2019, 11:55 AM
Imagine benching Kidd for Clacton in the 4th quarter
We should retire Speedy Claxton’s jersey instead of Tony’s tbh.

FkLA
05-12-2019, 02:11 PM
Is Enrique even a HOFer?

I wouldn't let him in, tbh.

timvp
05-12-2019, 02:40 PM
What I don't get is: why go through these histrionics? We all know who Parker is, he's not a bad guy, he's not unprofessional, he's far from the first player to think he had something to prove and that thought he was better than he really was. He's been done for like 3 years now.Tbh, it's fun riling up Parker haters (Argentines, Canadians, and guys who have been cheated on who are intimidated of alphas) who can't stomach the fact that he's the fourth most accomplished player in Spurs history :lol

lefty
05-12-2019, 02:48 PM
We should retire Speedy Claxton’s jersey instead of Tony’s tbh.

Agreed

lefty
05-12-2019, 02:48 PM
Tbh, it's fun riling up Parker haters (Argentines, Canadians, and guys who have been cheated on who are intimidated of alphas) who can't stomach the fact that he's the fourth most accomplished player in Spurs history :lol

You suck at trolling tbh :lol

ElNono
05-12-2019, 03:18 PM
Tbh, it's fun riling up Parker haters (Argentines, Canadians, and guys who have been cheated on who are intimidated of alphas) who can't stomach the fact that he's the fourth most accomplished player in Spurs history :lol

It works well both ways ;)

apalisoc_9
05-12-2019, 03:28 PM
Tbh, it's fun riling up Parker haters (Argentines, Canadians, and guys who have been cheated on who are intimidated of alphas) who can't stomach the fact that he's the fourth most accomplished player in Spurs history :lol

4th most accomplished sure. But Tony is easily the 3rd most relevant spur of all time. These messitards bringing their agenda in spurs..smdh

timvp
05-12-2019, 04:23 PM
You suck at trolling tbh :lol

True. But it has you responding multiple times in a 16-year-old thread, tbh. :lol

ducks
05-12-2019, 05:15 PM
tp finals mvp
kidd NONE

lefty
05-12-2019, 07:58 PM
True. But it has you responding multiple times in a 16-year-old thread, tbh. :lol
:lol

SpurOutofTownFan
05-12-2019, 09:50 PM
j.f.c this shit is still alive and well?

ViceCity86
05-12-2019, 10:21 PM
Getting Kidd that summer would of been a disaster.

Imagine wasting 100 mill on the most overrated player ever and then trading Tony Parker for Brad Miller. :lol

TDMVPDPOY
05-12-2019, 11:30 PM
lol a coatrider who has a habit of backup pg bailing him out of elimination games to seal a series...

boutons_deux
05-13-2019, 10:59 AM
We should retire Speedy Claxton’s jersey instead of Tony’s tbh.

you Claxton fellators are full of shit

How many times did Speedy bailout or outplay Tony?

Speedy was hurt most of 02-03 season, while Tony was having a great year as the "re-building" Spurs won a trophy.

Tony was tearing up the Nets in the Finals, there was talk of him being FMVP. Speedy?

Speedy was "so good", after he left the Spurs, he disappeared.


https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/claxtsp01.html

Play Boban
05-13-2019, 05:41 PM
you Claxton fellators are full of shit

How many times did Speedy bailout or outplay Tony?

Speedy was hurt most of 02-03 season, while Tony was having a great year as the "re-building" Spurs won a trophy.

Tony was tearing up the Nets in the Finals, there was talk of him being FMVP. Speedy?

Speedy was "so good", after he left the Spurs, he disappeared.


https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/claxtsp01.html
2003 game 6 tbh...

Porker: 24 minutes, 4 points, 2 assists, 2 rebounds, -10 :lol
Speedy: 23 minutes, 13 points, 4 assists, 1 rebound, 1 block, +21 :wow

The Spurs don’t win the 2003 Finals without Claxton. Fact...

For the series, Porker shot just 38% :lol and had an ORtg of 96 :lol. Speedy had an ORtg of 116 and shot 56% :wow. Fortunately, Pop finally saw the light and gave Speedy more playing time in the final few games of the series while Porker collapsed under pressure.

Pavlov
05-13-2019, 06:50 PM
2003 game 6 tbh...

Porker: 24 minutes, 4 points, 2 assists, 2 rebounds, -10 :lol
Speedy: 23 minutes, 13 points, 4 assists, 1 rebound, 1 block, +21 :wow

The Spurs don’t win the 2003 Finals without Claxton. Fact...

For the series, Porker shot just 38% :lol and had an ORtg of 96 :lol. Speedy had an ORtg of 116 and shot 56% :wow. Fortunately, Pop finally saw the light and gave Speedy more playing time in the final few games of the series while Porker collapsed under pressure.It was mainly because the Nets defended Parker with Kittles after Parker destroyed Kidd. Claxton also destroyed Kidd and wasn't guarded by Kittles.

timvp
05-13-2019, 07:33 PM
It was mainly because the Nets defended Parker with Kittles after Parker destroyed Kidd. Claxton also destroyed Kidd and wasn't guarded by Kittles.

Bombs of truth, tbh. A prepubescent Parker obliterated a prime Kidd so bad the Nets had to go with cross matchups :lol

DAF86
05-13-2019, 10:06 PM
timvp trying to undo all the great work he did on this thread by sticking with the "Parker had a great '18/'19 season" shtick, tbh. :lol

Play Boban
05-14-2019, 08:15 PM
It was mainly because the Nets defended Parker with Kittles after Parker destroyed Kidd. Claxton also destroyed Kidd and wasn't guarded by Kittles.
The facts don’t support your story. Claxton > Parker.