New GOP Talking Point...

[Nbadan]

"By Criticizing the administration in a time of war, Democrats are cheapening the service and sacrifices of our men and women in uniform proudly serving in Iraq and Afghanistan"...

I'll let Senator Chuck Hagel handle this one... Senator..


Republican Senator Chuck Hagel (R-NE), a Vietnam veteran and critic of Bush policy on Iraq, excoriated the Administration Tuesday in a speech to Council on Foreign Relations Tuesday, RAW STORY has learned.

Hagel blasted the Administration for going after Iraq war critics and turning the war into a political cause.

"The Iraq war should not be debated in the United States on a partisan political platform," the Nebraska senator remarked. "This debases our country, trivializes the seriousness of war and cheapens the service and sacrifices of our men and women in uniform. War is not a Republican or Democrat issue. The casualties of war are from both parties. The Bush Administration must understand that each American has a right to question our policies in Iraq and should not be demonized for disagreeing with them. Suggesting that to challenge or criticize policy is undermining and hurting our troops is not democracy nor what this country has stood for, for over 200 years. The Democrats have an obligation to challenge in a serious and responsible manner, offering solutions and alternatives to the Administration’s policies."

He also suggested the members of Congress who failed to question the war could be responsible for another Vietnam.

"Vietnam was a national tragedy partly because Members of Congress failed their country, remained silent and lacked the courage to challenge the Administrations in power until it was too late," he added. "Some of us who went through that nightmare have an obligation to the 58,000 Americans who died in Vietnam to not let that happen again. To question your government is not unpatriotic – to not question your government is unpatriotic. America owes its men and women in uniform a policy worthy of their sacrifices."

Hagel's full speech:Hagel Speech (http://hagel.senate.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressReleases.Detail&PressRelease_id=219401&Month=11&Year=2005)

[Marcus Bryant]

I think it depends on what exactly the criticism entails.

[Oh, Gee!!]

http://www.hazelip.com/imgs/elec2004/iraqiwires.jpg

[boutons]

Hagel and Repug friends think they can slime war dissenters with treason, anti-military, sedition, whatever, but even the US Senate, dominated by Repubs, and monitoring public opinion aka voters, is makine dubya tell them periodically what is going on, and to define a timeline for withdrawal:

"Senate Presses for Concrete Steps Toward Drawdown of Troops in Iraq

By Shailagh Murray and Jonathan Weisman
Washington Post Staff Writers

Wednesday, November 16, 2005; Page A01

Reflecting heightened public anxiety over the Iraq war, the Senate yesterday issued its most direct challenge yet to President Bush's handling of the conflict, as it pressed for concrete steps toward troop withdrawals and a requirement for the White House to provide more information on military operations.

By a vote of 79 to 19, the Senate approved a resolution designating 2006 as "a period of significant transition to full Iraqi sovereignty . . . thereby creating the conditions for the phased redeployment of United States forces from Iraq." It would also require the White House to submit to Congress an unclassified report every 90 days detailing U.S. policy and military operations.


The resolution was offered by Republican leaders after the Senate rejected a Democratic resolution, 58 to 40, that would have pressured the administration to outline a plan to draw down U.S. forces in Iraq. On that vote, five Democrats voted with the GOP majority, while only one Republican -- Lincoln D. Chafee (R.I.) -- voted yes. Democrats have moved aggressively to challenge Bush over how the United States went to war and how the war can be brought to an end.

..... "

dubya (well, maybe not that dumbshit), dickhead/rice/powell/wolfowitz/rummy/etc are old enough to know, from the VN war, what happens when the public turns against a war without end, withough victory, with ostensible, immediate benefit for the USA. But they started this war on false pretenses, poorly planned, under-equipped, under-manned, and fucked in every which way.

Fuck you Chuck Hagel, fuck you dickhead and your chickenshit speech a few minutes ago, the US public has the right to express dissent. That democratic right is one the rights the US military people are supposed to be wasting their lives for.

[Ocotillo]

Uh, Hagel is actually standing up to the Bush administration on the war. He has been more forthright then most of the Democratic leadership in the Senate.

[Vashner]

Bill's playing Left field Hillary's playing right...

If war goes good = Hillary "I was always hawk"..

If war goes bad = Bill will make up something to cover hillary.

Brilliant... meanwhile they could give a fuck less about the troops and victory.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Bill's playing Left field Hillary's playing right...

If war goes good = Hillary "I was always hawk"..

If war goes bad = Bill will make up something to cover hillary.

Brilliant... meanwhile they could give a fuck less about the troops and victory.


ok I will ask how can you possibly make the comment that Bill nor Hillary don't give a f*ck about the troops? I'll even go further..can you prove this? By the way neither of the Clinton's started an unecessary war.. I will give the 'caring' of the troops to the one's who do not rush into wars that did not have to be fought.. you can go with the one who sent troops without armor.. oh and before you come out and blame clinton for the lack of armor...If dumbya cared so much for the troops he would have waited for the body armor..

[boutons]

"If dumbya cared so much for the troops he would have waited for the body armor.."

... he would have waited for solid, irrefutable intelligence that Saddam:

1) actually had WMD and

2) was a more immediate threat to USA than the war on terror.

and then TOTALLY exposed all intelligence (unfiltered, un-fixed up, and uncensored by WH) to Congress, so Congress could authorize the WH to declare war after careful review of both the evidence and the plans for war and for the post-war.

The Iraqi war was fixated on before the 2000 elections, and NOTHING was going to distract dubya/dickhead from their Iraq monomania.
aka, fuck the military, they're expendable.

[George Gervin's Afro]

"If dumbya cared so much for the troops he would have waited for the body armor.."

... he would have waited for solid, irrefutable intelligence that Saddam:

1) actually had WMD and

2) was a more immediate threat to USA than the war on terror.

and then TOTALLY exposed all intelligence (unfiltered, un-fixed up, and uncensored by WH) to Congress, so Congress could auhtorize the WH to delcare war after careful review of both the evidence and the plans for war and for the post-war.

The Iraqi war was fixated on before the 2000 elections, and NOTHING was going to distract dubya/dickhead from their Iraq monomania.
aka, fuck the military, they're expendable.




Well I guess it's just a coincedence that Karl Rove said that the GOP should run on natonal defense issues in Jan of 2002 because historically the GOP is viewed as stronger than the Dems.. combine that with the Neocon rat pack infatuation with overthrowing Saddam .. kill 3 birds with one stone. Dumbya gets an easy win in Iraq, the neocons get their overthrow and the GOP wins elections running on national defense issues.. all just a coincedence..

[xrayzebra]

"If dumbya cared so much for the troops he would have waited for the body armor.."

... he would have waited for solid, irrefutable intelligence that Saddam:

1) actually had WMD and

2) was a more immediate threat to USA than the war on terror.

and then TOTALLY exposed all intelligence (unfiltered, un-fixed up, and uncensored by WH) to Congress, so Congress could authorize the WH to declare war after careful review of both the evidence and the plans for war and for the post-war.

The Iraqi war was fixated on before the 2000 elections, and NOTHING was going to distract dubya/dickhead from their Iraq monomania.
aka, fuck the military, they're expendable.

:lol :lol :lol

boutons you really should get a life. Congress has access to all the intelligence the President does, plus, they can get special briefings at any time on any subject. The aka, f*** the military, is a dimm-o-crap saying. I know from many years of experience. And once again they are showing their colors. Can you tell me one thing that "dubya/dckhead" as you put it have gained from the war zone in Iraq? You know that is only one phase of the war don't you? I think you forget about the U.S., England, France, Germany, Philippines, Jordan and many other places that this war is being fought. But that doesn't surprise me. You never think anyhow.

[Oh, Gee!!]

It's funny when Repubs say that we're putting the troops lives in danger by questioning Dubya's motives for going to war.

They probably tell little children that every time someone questions the war a little fluffy puppy doggy dies.

[xrayzebra]

It's funny when Repubs say that we're putting the troops lives in danger by questioning Dubya's motives for going to war.

They probably tell little children that every time someone questions the war a little fluffy puppy doggy dies.

Well I don't know about you, but I have served under both. I prefer the
Repubs. Just look at how the dimm-o-craps are hunting for cover now that their words are coming back to haunt them. Do you remember how the pinko's lost the VN war and killed MILLIONS of people thru their self-serving crap. I damn sure do. I didn't like being called a baby killer and didn't like what they (dimm-o-craps) and the media did to the USA. I have done my share and would do more if they would let me. But I damn sure want let a bunch of wimpy blowhards do again what they did in the past. You twerp.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Well I don't know about you, but I have served under both. I prefer the
Repubs. Just look at how the dimm-o-craps are hunting for cover now that their words are coming back to haunt them. Do you remember how the pinko's lost the VN war and killed MILLIONS of people thru their self-serving crap. I damn sure do. I didn't like being called a baby killer and didn't like what they (dimm-o-craps) and the media did to the USA. I have done my share and would do more if they would let me. But I damn sure want let a bunch of wimpy blowhards do again what they did in the past. You twerp.


Hey skippy the Senate Intel Committe asked for dumbya's Presidential Breifings leading up to the war. In case you don't know what these are they are the most up to date intel we as a country have. The GOP Senate Committee leader asked for them from the White House and they said said no so they moved on. By the way you are wrong about the President saying he gave us all of the info. He said they had the same intel he had which is quite a big difference than admitting he gave them all of the up to date info he had. My question again is Why not emphatically state that the Congress got all of the information the President had access to? Notice the way he and dick work their way around this when attacking the dems. BY the way were you upset your govt misled you to war in Vietnam?..cough gulf of tonkin resolution..cough..cough

[xrayzebra]

Hey skippy the Senate Intel Committe asked for dumbya's Presidential Breifings leading up to the war. In case you don't know what these are they are the most up to date intel we as a country have. The GOP Senate Committee leader asked for them from the White House and they said said no so they moved on. By the way you are wrong about the President saying he gave us all of the info. He said they had the same intel he had which is quite a big difference than admitting he gave them all of the up to date info he had. My question again is Why not emphatically state that the Congress got all of the information the President had access to? Notice the way he and dick work their way around this when attacking the dems. BY the way were you upset your govt misled you to war in Vietnam?..cough gulf of tinkin resolution..cough..cough

No I am upset that people like you still wont acknowledge that Congress has access to all the intel the President has. And bye the way, JFK started it, LBJ escalated it thru the Bay of Tomkin. And also upset that people like you are still not supporting our country. The President doesn't really have to give them anything, both houses have Intel committees that can call anyone in for a briefing. And you are wrong as two left feet.

[George Gervin's Afro]

No I am upset that people like you still wont acknowledge that Congress has access to all the intel the President has. And bye the way, JFK started it, LBJ escalated it thru the Bay of Tomkin. And also upset that people like you are still not supporting our country. The President doesn't really have to give them anything, both houses have Intel committees that can call anyone in for a briefing. Any you are wrong as two left feet.


Not acknowledging? No it's not me it's members of congress who are saying this. The Congress has access to what the president gives them. The president gets all of the info and he passes that along.. why won't he just come out and say he gave them everything he had access to? If he did that this whole issue would go away and he could claim victory..

[xrayzebra]

Not acknowledging? No it's not me it's members of congress who are saying this. The Congress has access to what the president gives them. The president gets all of the info and he passes that along.. why won't he just come out and say he gave them everything he had access to? If he did that this whole issue would go away and he could claim victory..

Cant help it if they lie, but I can tell you that they damn sure do have the ability to get all the intel, thru their committees. The are separate branches of government. They don't have to rely on the President for anything. And he did did say they had access to everything. Listen and read somethings other than the New York Times and ABC, CBS, NBC. Read a few columnist on the editorial page.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Cant help it if they lie, but I can tell you that they damn sure do have the ability to get all the intel, thru their committees. The are separate branches of government. They don't have to rely on the President for anything.


You are refusing to see what is right in front of you. If we are to believe you every Tom , Dick, & Harry in Congress gets everything the President does..so again why did the White House not supply the Presidential briefings? That right there says they don't get the same information the President does.

[xrayzebra]

You are refusing to see what is right in front of you. If we are to believe you every Tom , Dick, & Harry in Congress gets everything the President does..so again why did the White House not supply the Presidential briefings? That right there says they don't get the same information the President does.

I didn't say every Tom, Dick and Harry, I said the Intel Committees have the information which they can share on a confidential basis with their fellow members. Presidential briefings are an altogether different thing, those are his and Congress can get the same thing. All they have to do is request them.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I didn't say every Tom, Dick and Harry, I said the Intel Committees have the information which they can share on a confidential basis with their fellow members. Presidential briefings are an altogether different thing, those are his and Congress can get the same thing. All they have to do is request them.


If I can provide documentation showing you the White House denied providing the briefings will you at least acknowledge the Congress may not have gotten everything the President had? I am not trying to trick you or trap you I just want to provide you documention that these requests were denied.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I didn't say every Tom, Dick and Harry, I said the Intel Committees have the information which they can share on a confidential basis with their fellow members. Presidential briefings are an altogether different thing, those are his and Congress can get the same thing. All they have to do is request them.



"The owner of intelligence"


Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee have repeatedly disputed
the
claim that members of Congress and the White House have equal access to
intelligence information. During a November 4 press conference,
Rockefeller
and Feinstein directly addressed this issue. Both noted, for example,
that
committee members are not privy to the Presidential Daily Briefing
(PDB) --
a written summary of intelligence information that the CIA provides to
the
president. (The White House even withheld from Senate investigators the
PDBs on Iraq delivered to the Oval Office prior to the war.):


ROCKEFELLER: I mean, one of things that they -- that Chairman
Roberts
likes to do is to try to point out that there were a lot of
Democrats
who voted for the -- going to the United Nations, and if that
didn't
work, going to the war. And then people say, "Well, you know, you
all
had the same intelligence that the White House had." And I'm here
to
tell you that is nowhere near the truth. We not only don't have,
nor
probably should we have, the Presidential Daily Brief, we don't
have
the constant people who are working on intelligence who are very
close to him. They don't release their -- an administration which
tends not to release -- not just the White House, but the CIA,
DOD
[Department of Defense], others -- they control information.
There's
a lot of intelligence that we don't get that they have.

[xrayzebra]

If I can provide documentation showing you the White House denied providing the briefings will you at least acknowledge the Congress may not have gotten everything the President had? I am not trying to trick you or trap you I just want to provide you documention that these requests were denied.

Be my guest. Post it. But read your post above again. The White House
denied providing? I am not sure what you mean by that. I take it that you mean they wouldn't allow Congress to have any briefings. Anyhow post your
information. But I have to go for a little while. But will be back. Not running out of the conversation.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Be my guest. Post it. But read your post above again. The White House
denied providing? I am not sure what you mean by that. I take it that you mean they wouldn't allow Congress to have any briefings. Anyhow post your
information. But I have to go for a little while. But will be back. Not running out of the conversation.


Well I have to run as well. I am not some sort of democrat partisan hack I am an American who loves my country and hates what has happened over the last few years. Bush has lowered the USA to the levels of the most depsicable tyranical regimes in the history of the world. Part of of having the best military in the world means you must use it responsibly and sparingly.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Be my guest. Post it. But read your post above again. The White House
denied providing? I am not sure what you mean by that. I take it that you mean they wouldn't allow Congress to have any briefings. Anyhow post your
information. But I have to go for a little while. But will be back. Not running out of the conversation.


KERREY: The president has much more access to intelligence than
members of Congress does [sic]. Ask any member of Congress. Ask a
Republican member of Congress, do you get the same access to
intelligence that the president does? Look at these aluminum tube
stories that came out the president delivered to the Congress --

"We believe these would be used for centrifuges." -- didn't deliver
to Congress the full range of objections from the Department of
Energy experts, nuclear weapons experts, that said it's unlikely they
were for centrifuges, more likely that they were for rockets, which
was for a pre-existing use. The president has much more access to
intelligence than any member of Congress.

Indeed, the White House's involvement in development of the aluminum
tubes
allegation provides an example of how the administration's access to
intelligence on Iraq differed from that of Congress. In particular, the
aluminum tubes story exhibits the "very close" relationship -- which
Rockefeller noted -- between the White House and those "working on
intelligence."

[Dos]

so there is no oversight from congress on the CIA, NSA or Pentagon....... lol..

I wonder what all those intell committee's do then... shoot rubberbands at the ceiling..

[Dos]

any freaking staffer from a senator can go into these archives and get reports...

http://www.odci.gov/csi/kent_csi/Default.htm

[Dos]

I dare anyone to go the CIA website and look up what they still have posted about WMD's and iraq.. just do a search for iraq at the following site.. and let me know what you find.... come on libbie's go to the source...

http://www.odci.gov/csi/kent_csi/Default.htm

[George Gervin's Afro]

I dare anyone to go the CIA website and look up what they still have posted about WMD's and iraq.. just do a search for iraq at the following site.. and let me know what you find.... come on libbie's go to the source...

http://www.odci.gov/csi/kent_csi/Default.htm

so then why won't the president come out and say they had all the info he had. why not? notice he says they had the same info he had..well duh..
by the way are you saying on these websites I can get all the information COngress had? the president? wmds posted about iraq? are you referring to lack of wmd?

[xrayzebra]

KERREY: The president has much more access to intelligence than
members of Congress does [sic]. Ask any member of Congress. Ask a
Republican member of Congress, do you get the same access to
intelligence that the president does? Look at these aluminum tube
stories that came out the president delivered to the Congress --

"We believe these would be used for centrifuges." -- didn't deliver
to Congress the full range of objections from the Department of
Energy experts, nuclear weapons experts, that said it's unlikely they
were for centrifuges, more likely that they were for rockets, which
was for a pre-existing use. The president has much more access to
intelligence than any member of Congress.

Indeed, the White House's involvement in development of the aluminum
tubes
allegation provides an example of how the administration's access to
intelligence on Iraq differed from that of Congress. In particular, the
aluminum tubes story exhibits the "very close" relationship -- which
Rockefeller noted -- between the White House and those "working on
intelligence."

Kerry is your source? Sorry I wont accept him as any source. He changes stories more often than I do my socks.

[boutons]

"to go the CIA website and look up what they still have posted about WMD's and iraq"

Do you think they have/not published anything without being vetted by the WH?

Anybody who is naive enough to believe anything from the fed govt, esp from lie/disinformation factory like the CIA (nobody knows what goes on in there) is dumber than xray+gtown+vashner combined.

[mookie2001]

"to go the CIA website and look up what they still have posted about WMD's and iraq"

Do you think they have/not published anything without being vetted by the WH?

Anybody who in naive enough to believe anything from the fed govt, esp from lie/disinformation factory like the CIA (nobody knows what goes on in there) is dumber than xray+gtown+vashner combined.LOL
Bushlike intelligence
listen to this dude Rufus, he knows what he's talking about

[George Gervin's Afro]

Kerry is your source? Sorry I wont accept him as any source. He changes stories more often than I do my socks.


It's Bob Kerrey..so is he ok?